Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

New Visitors & Returning Visitor

Expand Messages
  • liwebanalyst
    Hello everyone, recently I experienced an interesting question regarding with how is New Visitor or Returning Visitor counted . As we know, normally a web
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 24, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello everyone,

      recently I experienced an interesting question regarding with "how is "New Visitor" or "Returning Visitor counted".

      As we know, normally a web analytics tool has time dimensions, like "daily", "Weekly", "Monthly", "Yearly". If we choose "Daily" dimension, the data of "Visitor", "Page Impression", "Unique Visitor", "New Visitor", "Returning Visitor" for each single day will be shown in the table. Let's suppose a situation as followed,only 5 People with different IP joined into this experiment for website A,

      on 01.07, Kevin visited website A twice (say once in the morning, once in the afternoon), Jim visited only once, Bob visited only once. Thus, totally only three visitor on this day.

      on 02.07, Kevin visited website A twice, Jim visited once, Bob twice, and Steve visited website A once.

      On 03.07, Kevin visited again, Joe visited website A twice.

      Thus the situation could be simply described by the following table, at least I hope so:-)

      Date Visits
      01.07 Kevin, Kevin, Jim, Bob
      02.07 Kevin, Jim, Bob, Bob, Steve
      03.07 Kevin, Joe, Joe

      The question is how many new visitor and returning visitor separately on each day there are. Let's ignore the possibility these five people would delete their cookies or other special cases.

      As Google Analytics tutorial, I got the results as followed, every day or we say the time period we choose is totally independent. It is nothing to do whether the cookie is saved before or not.
      Date New Visitor Returning Visitor
      01.07 3 1
      02.07 4 1
      03.07 2 1
      01.07-03.07 5 7

      However some other web analytics tool(eTracker)told me, they will count them in the following way, Even though we just focus on a single day, but whether it is a new or returning visitor will be influenced by what happened before.

      Date New Visitor Returning Visitor
      01.07 3 1
      02.07 1 4
      03.07 1 2
      01.07-03.07 5 7

      Could someone tell me which method is right or standard or more popular?

      What technique or which tracking parameter can decide which method?

      Thanks in advance

      Li
    • G Scott Stukey
      Hey there, So New/Return Visitor has less to do with the timeframe you re looking at and more to do with cookies, etc. Think of it as a Booleon question (Is
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 27, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Hey there,

        So New/Return Visitor has less to do with the timeframe you're looking at and more to do with cookies, etc. Think of it as a Booleon question (Is there a cookie from a previous visit? If no then new visitor & drop a cookie, if yes then returning visitor)

        1st day - 3 were new cookies (and 1 repeat visit)
        2nd day - of the 5 visits, anyone who doesnt need a cookie (i.e. they visited the first day) is a return (regardless of if its their first visit of the day you are looking at).

        Date range only matters when you look at total visitors over a specified day/week/month/etc.

        Hope that helps!

        -G Scott Stukey

        e. gscottstukey@...
        t. @gscottstukey
        m. 201.406.1899
      • Hadoop Raj
        ... Hi, I have Omniture web logs which has the IP address of all visitors logging into website. The Omniture web logs doesn t have customer id s for
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 27, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          >

          Hi,

          I have Omniture web logs which has the IP address of all visitors logging into website. The Omniture web logs doesn't have customer id's for unregistered users. For unregistered users, all we have is IP address.

          My questions are

          1) Can we get visitor details like Name, Address, Email id based on the IP address from any commercial external data source vendors like Internet Service Provider etc., If there are any vendors like that, who are they?
          2) Does ISP's sell data to companies? Is it legal?
          3) What are my options of doing some analytics based on IP address and/or zip codes.

          Thanks,
          Raj

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Patrick Mazzotta
          1) There are some inferences you can make based on IP but typically you can t drill down to unique users. IP address just isn t unqiue enough to guarantee you
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 28, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            1) There are some inferences you can make based on IP but typically you
            can't drill down to unique users. IP address just isn't unqiue enough to
            guarantee you aren't lumping ppl together (think multiple users visiting
            the same website from within the same company office).
            2) That typically is very region specific, but I don't know of any area
            that allows it - and even if it was "legal" I can't see any ISP doing that.
            That is such a massive breach of privacy and security... Why would you even
            want to do that?
            3) There are tonnes of options - but your line of questioning is
            excessively vague. The starting point for building reports isn't "what can
            I do with X" - it's "I need to know Y, how do I get there with these
            restrictions". Maybe you can explain to the group what you're trying to do
            with this unique user drilldown?

            Patrick Mazzotta
            President & Founder
            Craedone Technologies Inc.
            pmazzotta@...


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Steve Eisenberg
            Hi Folks: Pertaining to this message thread, I m wondering if anyone can shed some light on how to do geo targeting of content for small to medium sized
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 28, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Folks:

              Pertaining to this message thread, I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on how to do geo targeting of content for small to medium sized businesses?

              Best,
              Steve

              From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Mazzotta
              Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 2:27 PM
              To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [webanalytics] Re: IP Address in Weblogs - How to get customer information ?



              1) There are some inferences you can make based on IP but typically you
              can't drill down to unique users. IP address just isn't unqiue enough to
              guarantee you aren't lumping ppl together (think multiple users visiting
              the same website from within the same company office).
              2) That typically is very region specific, but I don't know of any area
              that allows it - and even if it was "legal" I can't see any ISP doing that.
              That is such a massive breach of privacy and security... Why would you even
              want to do that?
              3) There are tonnes of options - but your line of questioning is
              excessively vague. The starting point for building reports isn't "what can
              I do with X" - it's "I need to know Y, how do I get there with these
              restrictions". Maybe you can explain to the group what you're trying to do
              with this unique user drilldown?

              Patrick Mazzotta
              President & Founder
              Craedone Technologies Inc.
              pmazzotta@...<mailto:pmazzotta%40craedonetechnologies.com>

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Hadoop Raj
              Hello Patrick and Steve - Thanks for your replies on this thread. I want to know why can t we infer information about a user when we have an 1) IP address
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 28, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello Patrick and Steve - Thanks for your replies on this thread.

                I want to know why can't we infer information about a user when we have an 1) IP address along with some information like 2) Domain Name and 3) ISP details.

                I was reading that ISP sell data. If that is the case, why can't I get those details. Just want to understand.

                Regards,
                Raj

                On Jul 28, 2013, at 3:03 PM, Steve Eisenberg <steve@...> wrote:

                > Hi Folks:
                >
                > Pertaining to this message thread, I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on how to do geo targeting of content for small to medium sized businesses?
                >
                > Best,
                > Steve
                >
                > From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Mazzotta
                > Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 2:27 PM
                > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: IP Address in Weblogs - How to get customer information ?
                >
                > 1) There are some inferences you can make based on IP but typically you
                > can't drill down to unique users. IP address just isn't unqiue enough to
                > guarantee you aren't lumping ppl together (think multiple users visiting
                > the same website from within the same company office).
                > 2) That typically is very region specific, but I don't know of any area
                > that allows it - and even if it was "legal" I can't see any ISP doing that.
                > That is such a massive breach of privacy and security... Why would you even
                > want to do that?
                > 3) There are tonnes of options - but your line of questioning is
                > excessively vague. The starting point for building reports isn't "what can
                > I do with X" - it's "I need to know Y, how do I get there with these
                > restrictions". Maybe you can explain to the group what you're trying to do
                > with this unique user drilldown?
                >
                > Patrick Mazzotta
                > President & Founder
                > Craedone Technologies Inc.
                > pmazzotta@...<mailto:pmazzotta%40craedonetechnologies.com>
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Eric Huang
                Hi, You can get much information from an IP address. That s why IP addresses are considered PII information. From an IP addresses, you can do reverse lookup to
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 28, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi,

                  You can get much information from an IP address. That's why IP addresses
                  are considered PII information.

                  From an IP addresses, you can do reverse lookup to find the domain names
                  and ISP names. For some big companies, e.g. Microsoft, Amazon, the ISP
                  names are the company names. For smaller companies or individuals at homes,
                  the ISP names are like Comcast, which are not very useful. Example APIs are
                  here: http://www.whoisxmlapi.com/reverse-whois.php

                  From a domain name, you can look up the registrant's information, including
                  name, email, address, if the registrant does pay extra to make the record
                  private. Example is http://who.godaddy.com/

                  From ISP names or company name, you can find contact information in the
                  company using services like data.com from salesforce
                  http://www.salesforce.com/data/features/.

                  Actually, some companies have lead generation products to help you get
                  sales leads from the IP addresses using the approaches mentioned above,
                  such as http://www.leadlander.com/

                  Thanks,

                  Eric

                  --
                  Eric Huang, Ph.D.
                  Co-Founder, SkyGlue.com <http://skyglue.com/> |
                  @skyglue<http://twitter.com/skyglue>
                  425-835-3818 | LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ericyhuang> |
                  @ericyhuang <http://twitter.com/ericyhuang>
                  *Google Analytics + SkyGlue = Simple Event Tracking + Better Customer
                  Insight*



                  On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Hadoop Raj <hadoopraj@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hello Patrick and Steve - Thanks for your replies on this thread.
                  >
                  > I want to know why can't we infer information about a user when we have an
                  > 1) IP address along with some information like 2) Domain Name and 3) ISP
                  > details.
                  >
                  > I was reading that ISP sell data. If that is the case, why can't I get
                  > those details. Just want to understand.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > Raj
                  >
                  >
                  > On Jul 28, 2013, at 3:03 PM, Steve Eisenberg <steve@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > > Hi Folks:
                  > >
                  > > Pertaining to this message thread, I'm wondering if anyone can shed some
                  > light on how to do geo targeting of content for small to medium sized
                  > businesses?
                  > >
                  > > Best,
                  > > Steve
                  > >
                  > > From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com]
                  > On Behalf Of Patrick Mazzotta
                  > > Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 2:27 PM
                  > > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: IP Address in Weblogs - How to get customer
                  > information ?
                  > >
                  > > 1) There are some inferences you can make based on IP but typically you
                  > > can't drill down to unique users. IP address just isn't unqiue enough to
                  > > guarantee you aren't lumping ppl together (think multiple users visiting
                  > > the same website from within the same company office).
                  > > 2) That typically is very region specific, but I don't know of any area
                  > > that allows it - and even if it was "legal" I can't see any ISP doing
                  > that.
                  > > That is such a massive breach of privacy and security... Why would you
                  > even
                  > > want to do that?
                  > > 3) There are tonnes of options - but your line of questioning is
                  > > excessively vague. The starting point for building reports isn't "what
                  > can
                  > > I do with X" - it's "I need to know Y, how do I get there with these
                  > > restrictions". Maybe you can explain to the group what you're trying to
                  > do
                  > > with this unique user drilldown?
                  > >
                  > > Patrick Mazzotta
                  > > President & Founder
                  > > Craedone Technologies Inc.
                  > > pmazzotta@...<mailto:
                  > pmazzotta%40craedonetechnologies.com>
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Judah Phillips
                  Hi Raj, There s two (and more) angles to the IP address lookup: people IPs (humans) and business IPs (corporations). Many governments and people in countries
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 29, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Raj,

                    There's two (and more) angles to the IP address lookup: people IPs (humans)
                    and business IPs (corporations).

                    Many governments and people in countries don't want you, your bosses, me,
                    my friends, or anyone else resolving a person's IP to their personally
                    identifiable information (PII), like first/last name and so on. In some
                    countries, laws restrict it, and in other countries, markets restrict it,
                    or both.

                    On the other hand, business IP's are available to purchase and resolve.
                    Some tools do these decodes for you. Otherwise, you can go to Dun &
                    Bradstreet and other paid or free sources.

                    Judah
                    Author of Building a Digital Analytics Organization
                    http://www.amazon.com/Building-Digital-Analytics-Organization-Integrating/dp/0133372782

                    "A rigorous, professional approach to digital analytics requires the types
                    of management approaches that are laid out in this book... Judah Phillips
                    has been an advocate of these serious disciplines for a long time, but now
                    the world is ready to adopt them--and the book comes along just in time...
                    and this one is distinctive in a number of ways and brings into the digital
                    analytics space a sophistication in both data management and data analysis
                    that is not often found...."

                    --Thomas H. Davenport, author of Competing on Analytics and Analytics at
                    Work, professor at Harvard Business School and Babson College, and
                    cofounder of the International Institute for Analytics


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Patrick Mazzotta
                    A few points here. 1) Yes, you can get a lot of info from an IP Address (I never said there was no info to get). HOWEVER - technically that kind of information
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 29, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      A few points here.
                      1) Yes, you can get a lot of info from an IP Address (I never said there
                      was no info to get). HOWEVER - technically that kind of information does
                      not qualify as "personally identifiable". Multiple people browsing the same
                      website can resolve to the same domains, and even if you had 10 people
                      browsing the website from the same IP, there is no guarantee that any of
                      them will be the person identified in the domain registration info (in
                      fact, in the vast majority of cases, we can be confident that it won't be
                      that contact).
                      2) Not all IPs will resolve to a meaningful domain. Most residential
                      traffic will resolve to an ISP's domain, of whom the registration info has
                      absolutely nothing at all to do with the visiting traffic.
                      3) In Canada ISPs are not allowed to sell their customer's information. I'd
                      love to read the references where you learned about ISP's selling client
                      info. I'm pretty sure it's illegal in the US and most of Europe too. IDK
                      about other regions, but even if you could buy client info, you can't
                      reliably map it to IPs since over 60% (in Canada and the USA it's closer to
                      85%) of residential IPs are dynamically allocated. Any info you get on
                      residential IPs associated by name will be stale within days.So even if you
                      could, you'd be paying for garbage.

                      The reason why there are such tight restrictions about giving IP/client
                      info is because it's an invasion of personal privacy. Even governments need
                      warrants (in Canada and USA) to get that info. Bottom line: I'm very
                      sceptical of the source which informed you that ISPs sell this information.

                      In the world of analytics nothing is boolean. This isn't a question of "can
                      I" or "can't I" get info from an IP. It's an issue of quality, reliability,
                      depth, and breadth of the info you can get.

                      Patrick Mazzotta
                      President & Founder
                      Craedone Technologies Inc.
                      pmazzotta@...


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Raj Hadoop
                        Thank you every one who posted answers to my query. I am learning a lot of stuff on this thread.   Regards, Raj ________________________________ From:
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 30, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                         
                        Thank you every one who posted answers to my query. I am learning a lot of stuff on this thread.
                         
                        Regards,
                        Raj


                        ________________________________
                        From: Patrick Mazzotta <pmazzotta@...>
                        To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 4:02 PM
                        Subject: [webanalytics] Re: IP Address in Weblogs - How to get customer information ?

                         
                        A few points here.
                        1) Yes, you can get a lot of info from an IP Address (I never said there
                        was no info to get). HOWEVER - technically that kind of information does
                        not qualify as "personally identifiable". Multiple people browsing the same
                        website can resolve to the same domains, and even if you had 10 people
                        browsing the website from the same IP, there is no guarantee that any of
                        them will be the person identified in the domain registration info (in
                        fact, in the vast majority of cases, we can be confident that it won't be
                        that contact).
                        2) Not all IPs will resolve to a meaningful domain. Most residential
                        traffic will resolve to an ISP's domain, of whom the registration info has
                        absolutely nothing at all to do with the visiting traffic.
                        3) In Canada ISPs are not allowed to sell their customer's information. I'd
                        love to read the references where you learned about ISP's selling client
                        info. I'm pretty sure it's illegal in the US and most of Europe too. IDK
                        about other regions, but even if you could buy client info, you can't
                        reliably map it to IPs since over 60% (in Canada and the USA it's closer to
                        85%) of residential IPs are dynamically allocated. Any info you get on
                        residential IPs associated by name will be stale within days.So even if you
                        could, you'd be paying for garbage.

                        The reason why there are such tight restrictions about giving IP/client
                        info is because it's an invasion of personal privacy. Even governments need
                        warrants (in Canada and USA) to get that info. Bottom line: I'm very
                        sceptical of the source which informed you that ISPs sell this information.

                        In the world of analytics nothing is boolean. This isn't a question of "can
                        I" or "can't I" get info from an IP. It's an issue of quality, reliability,
                        depth, and breadth of the info you can get.

                        Patrick Mazzotta
                        President & Founder
                        Craedone Technologies Inc.
                        mailto:pmazzotta%40craedonetechnologies.com

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.