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Re: Tag Management Solution

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  • Stephane Hamel
    Short answer since you said as soon as possible ! :) Q) will the use of a TMS add to implementation? A) From a pure implementation standpoint, adding a
    Message 1 of 26 , May 1, 2013
      Short answer since you said "as soon as possible"! :)

      Q) will the use of a TMS add to implementation?
      A) From a pure implementation standpoint, adding a snippet of JavaScript code for a single web analytics solution or adding the bootstrap for a TMS will take the same time. You will also have the same amount of work to do in order to configure your web analytics tool.

      Your very first implementation might take you a little longer because
      a) you will need to ramp up with whichever TMS tool you choose and
      b) you still have to put the snippet of web analytics tracking code in the TMS (or configure through the interface).

      But...
      a) once done, maintaining the implementation will be a lot easier and you will save time
      b) if you deploy multiple tags you will reap the benefits of a TMS by making it much more easy & efficient to deploy them

      Q) how long would it take for implementation?
      A) if your scheme of reference is 3 months, I would add at least 20% contingency. On top of the above comment about learning the TMS, don't forget you are adding a new player in the conversation. If you had issues getting your web dev team to add those JS tags you will still have the same challenge getting the TMS tags there... Depending on the client, you might also have to validate with legal and IT for the use of cookies, compliancy and such

      Hope that helps!

      Stephane Hamel
      Director, Strategic Services
      CardinalPath.com

      --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "harshil" <harshilshah_2004@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi All,
      >
      > I am engaging with some client for web analytics implementation along with tag management solution.
      >
      > Can you please help with the following queries for the same?
      >
      > - If we are using a tag management solution rather than regular javascript page tags method, does it add to the implementation timeframe or will it reduce the implementation time frame?
      > - Also, how long would it take for implementation of a web analytics tool using the tag management solution? (As a reference, considering that the same implementation using a javascript page tag will take 3 months)
      >
      > Please help with these as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.
      >
      > Best Regards,
      > Harshil
      >
    • Bill Bruno
      I m going to have to respectfully disagree with Stephane here. My team has done over 40 TMS implementations for enterprise customers…primarily focused on
      Message 2 of 26 , May 1, 2013
        I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with Stephane here. My team has done over 40 TMS implementations for enterprise customers�primarily focused on Ensighten and GTM.

        The use of a TMS shortens the runway in two areas:

        1. Implementation Time
        2. Maturity

        Implementation Time:

        If you're looking at a standard deployment of 3 months without a TMS for 1 analytics vendor, you're most likely looking at roughly 4-5 weeks to deploy that same vendor within a TMS. The time it takes to deploy an enterprise TMS (one line of code referencing a library) literally takes minutes. However, we all know that there will be unit testing done by your IT team to ensure this passes all tests..most likely in a DEV environment. So, you're most likely looking at 3-5 days to get the TMS code deployed. However, you don't need to have that code deployed to begin the implementation of the analytics vendor within your TMS. In fact, you can just set up a proxy to deploy that code on your browser only to begin your testing. If you're deploying the base code�that's done in an hour (I'm exaggerating this too�we've done it in minutes). The more advanced deployments (events, link tracking, etc.) take a little finesse from a strategy standpoint such that your implementation is scalable down the road. 4-5 weeks would be on the high end. My team has done full deployments in less than that for one analytics vendor. Pixel tags (DART, etc.) are literally done in minutes.

        So, in no way would you see an extended implementation with the introduction of a TMS. In fact, there has been quite a bit of research done in the space to back up what I'm saying.

        Maturity

        Because you're not spending all of your time on the implementation (and I've seen a non-TMS implementation take over a year due to IT conflicts), you can get actionable data throughout your organization much more quickly. Also, data integration becomes much simpler since you can connect client-side technologies via your TMS deployment. As a result, we've seen an incredible growth in the maturity of analytics programs for clients that have a TMS versus those that don't.

        This isn't a fad. There aren't smoke and mirrors. It works�and when done right, by the right organization, you'll reap the benefits immediately.


        Feel free to reach out directly with any questions at all.


        Bill Bruno
        CEO | Stratigent
        (o) 630.658.2215 (c) 773.203.6596 (f) 630.658.2201
        bill.bruno@...<mailto:bill.bruno@...>

        [stratigent banner]<http://www.stratigent.com/>

        Copyright Stratigent, LLC, all rights reserved. This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipients, and contain confidential and proprietary information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution of this email message or its attachments is prohibited.

        From: Stephane Hamel <shamel67@...<mailto:shamel67@...>>
        Reply-To: "webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>" <webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>>
        Date: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 12:34 PM
        To: "webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>" <webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>>
        Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Tag Management Solution



        Short answer since you said "as soon as possible"! :)

        Q) will the use of a TMS add to implementation?
        A) From a pure implementation standpoint, adding a snippet of JavaScript code for a single web analytics solution or adding the bootstrap for a TMS will take the same time. You will also have the same amount of work to do in order to configure your web analytics tool.

        Your very first implementation might take you a little longer because
        a) you will need to ramp up with whichever TMS tool you choose and
        b) you still have to put the snippet of web analytics tracking code in the TMS (or configure through the interface).

        But...
        a) once done, maintaining the implementation will be a lot easier and you will save time
        b) if you deploy multiple tags you will reap the benefits of a TMS by making it much more easy & efficient to deploy them

        Q) how long would it take for implementation?
        A) if your scheme of reference is 3 months, I would add at least 20% contingency. On top of the above comment about learning the TMS, don't forget you are adding a new player in the conversation. If you had issues getting your web dev team to add those JS tags you will still have the same challenge getting the TMS tags there... Depending on the client, you might also have to validate with legal and IT for the use of cookies, compliancy and such

        Hope that helps!

        Stephane Hamel
        Director, Strategic Services
        CardinalPath.com

        --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>, "harshil" <harshilshah_2004@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi All,
        >
        > I am engaging with some client for web analytics implementation along with tag management solution.
        >
        > Can you please help with the following queries for the same?
        >
        > - If we are using a tag management solution rather than regular javascript page tags method, does it add to the implementation timeframe or will it reduce the implementation time frame?
        > - Also, how long would it take for implementation of a web analytics tool using the tag management solution? (As a reference, considering that the same implementation using a javascript page tag will take 3 months)
        >
        > Please help with these as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.
        >
        > Best Regards,
        > Harshil
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • harshil
        Thanks a lot Stephane for the quick response. This surely would be a lot helpful.
        Message 3 of 26 , May 1, 2013
          Thanks a lot Stephane for the quick response. This surely would be a lot helpful.

          --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Stephane Hamel" <shamel67@...> wrote:
          >
          > Short answer since you said "as soon as possible"! :)
          >
          > Q) will the use of a TMS add to implementation?
          > A) From a pure implementation standpoint, adding a snippet of JavaScript code for a single web analytics solution or adding the bootstrap for a TMS will take the same time. You will also have the same amount of work to do in order to configure your web analytics tool.
          >
          > Your very first implementation might take you a little longer because
          > a) you will need to ramp up with whichever TMS tool you choose and
          > b) you still have to put the snippet of web analytics tracking code in the TMS (or configure through the interface).
          >
          > But...
          > a) once done, maintaining the implementation will be a lot easier and you will save time
          > b) if you deploy multiple tags you will reap the benefits of a TMS by making it much more easy & efficient to deploy them
          >
          > Q) how long would it take for implementation?
          > A) if your scheme of reference is 3 months, I would add at least 20% contingency. On top of the above comment about learning the TMS, don't forget you are adding a new player in the conversation. If you had issues getting your web dev team to add those JS tags you will still have the same challenge getting the TMS tags there... Depending on the client, you might also have to validate with legal and IT for the use of cookies, compliancy and such
          >
          > Hope that helps!
          >
          > Stephane Hamel
          > Director, Strategic Services
          > CardinalPath.com
          >
          > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "harshil" <harshilshah_2004@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi All,
          > >
          > > I am engaging with some client for web analytics implementation along with tag management solution.
          > >
          > > Can you please help with the following queries for the same?
          > >
          > > - If we are using a tag management solution rather than regular javascript page tags method, does it add to the implementation timeframe or will it reduce the implementation time frame?
          > > - Also, how long would it take for implementation of a web analytics tool using the tag management solution? (As a reference, considering that the same implementation using a javascript page tag will take 3 months)
          > >
          > > Please help with these as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.
          > >
          > > Best Regards,
          > > Harshil
          > >
          >
        • Birger Friedrichs
          Good morning, Though I work for DC Storm (a Tag Management and service provider) and I m probably biased I would like to share my experience working with
          Message 4 of 26 , May 1, 2013
            Good morning,

            Though I work for DC Storm (a Tag Management and service provider) and
            I'm probably biased I would like to share my experience working with
            clients in this space.


            > If we are using a tag management solution rather than regular
            > javascript page tags method, does it add to the implementation
            > timeframe or will it reduce the implementation time frame?

            In the first instance you will have to add another piece of script to
            your pages which will add the container tag to your site. Depending on
            your flexibility and resources this might be quick or takes some more time.

            But this gives you the ability to add further tags and scripts to the
            container and fire them based on your own rules.
            If the provider has already pre-built templates for your third party
            tags it will be just about creating a serve rule and passing the
            mandatory (and optional) variables values to the tag.

            I normally advise clients to put some more thoughts into the implementation.
            A tag management system in general is a 'dumb' tool. It can only pass
            information to other tags or scripts that you provide to it or that the
            tms can extract from the URL or the page.

            Therefore try to think pre-implementation about which information is
            important for you to pass on to third party tags or which is important
            for you for setting up serve rules. This could be (depending on page type):
            - page type/category
            - product id
            - product name
            - product price
            - category id
            - category name
            - sub category
            - category path/breadcrumb
            - number of products
            - tax value
            - shipping cost
            - list of products IDs (e.g. category page or basket pages)
            - list of product names
            - list of category ids
            - list of category names
            - list of product prices
            - search term
            - search results
            etc.

            Of course it's possible to scrape these information from the page source
            or from the URL and we do this for clients but it's much more easier for
            you if you provide this kind of structured data to the tms by using a
            data layer (or something similar). E.g.:

            https://knowledge.dc-storm.com/display/CTKC/Data+Layer

            Especially re-targeting tags can be pretty sophisticated and would like
            to collect a lot of information on your various pages (product page,
            category page, search result page, basket page, confirmation page).

            Having everything available in something like a data layer makes it a
            lot more easier to configure your third party tags and to pass the
            information to these tags.

            So to answer your initial question it depends. :) If you put some more
            thought and time during implementation you can save a lot of time
            afterwards.


            > Also, how long would it take for implementation of a web analytics
            > tool using the tag management solution? (As a reference, considering
            > that the same implementation using a javascript page tag will take 3
            > months)

            This really depends on the tag. A simple Google Analytics tag is
            probably rolled out in a few hours (including testing and QA).

            More sophisticated implementations can take much more time. Especially
            if you have to pass a lot of custom information to your web analytics
            tool on the various page types. Then you have to think about which
            information has to be passed to the tag and on which pages and where do
            you get the information from.

            Our clients normally already have a web analytics tool implemented. So
            they are more after adding additional tags for their marketing campaigns
            (re-targeting tags, affiliate tags, price comparison sites etc.).

            If you only want to add a web analytics tag to your site, it might not
            worth to use a tag management system.
            But if you plan to deploy more tags to your site, I agree with Bill and
            it will definitely pay off the more tags you deploy.

            DC Storm provides a professional and free tag management tool.
            So feel free to register and give it a try to play with it:

            http://tagmanager.dc-storm.com/en-us/

            Happy to hear experiences and to learn from others and especially also
            the client side as the vendor and service provider space is often a bit
            biased: Everything's great!

            Regards,
            Birger


            On 02.05.2013 05:53, Bill Bruno wrote:
            > I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with Stephane here. My
            > team has done over 40 TMS implementations for enterprise
            > customers…primarily focused on Ensighten and GTM.
            >
            > The use of a TMS shortens the runway in two areas:
            >
            > 1. Implementation Time 2. Maturity
            >
            > Implementation Time:
            >
            > If you're looking at a standard deployment of 3 months without a TMS
            > for 1 analytics vendor, you're most likely looking at roughly 4-5
            > weeks to deploy that same vendor within a TMS. The time it takes to
            > deploy an enterprise TMS (one line of code referencing a library)
            > literally takes minutes. However, we all know that there will be
            > unit testing done by your IT team to ensure this passes all
            > tests..most likely in a DEV environment. So, you're most likely
            > looking at 3-5 days to get the TMS code deployed. However, you
            > don't need to have that code deployed to begin the implementation of
            > the analytics vendor within your TMS. In fact, you can just set up
            > a proxy to deploy that code on your browser only to begin your
            > testing. If you're deploying the base code…that's done in an hour
            > (I'm exaggerating this too…we've done it in minutes). The more
            > advanced deployments (events, link tracking, etc.) take a little
            > finesse from a strategy standpoint such that your implementation is
            > scalable down the road. 4-5 weeks would be on the high end. My team
            > has done full deployments in less than that for one analytics vendor.
            > Pixel tags (DART, etc.) are literally done in minutes.
            >
            > So, in no way would you see an extended implementation with the
            > introduction of a TMS. In fact, there has been quite a bit of
            > research done in the space to back up what I'm saying.
            >
            > Maturity
            >
            > Because you're not spending all of your time on the implementation
            > (and I've seen a non-TMS implementation take over a year due to IT
            > conflicts), you can get actionable data throughout your organization
            > much more quickly. Also, data integration becomes much simpler
            > since you can connect client-side technologies via your TMS
            > deployment. As a result, we've seen an incredible growth in the
            > maturity of analytics programs for clients that have a TMS versus
            > those that don't.
            >
            > This isn't a fad. There aren't smoke and mirrors. It works…and
            > when done right, by the right organization, you'll reap the benefits
            > immediately.
            >
            >
            > Feel free to reach out directly with any questions at all.
            >
            >
            > Bill Bruno CEO | Stratigent (o) 630.658.2215 (c) 773.203.6596 (f)
            > 630.658.2201
            > bill.bruno@...<mailto:bill.bruno@...>
            >
            > [stratigent banner]<http://www.stratigent.com/>
            >
            > Copyright Stratigent, LLC, all rights reserved. This email message
            > and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipients,
            > and contain confidential and proprietary information. Any
            > unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution of this email message
            > or its attachments is prohibited.
            >
            > From: Stephane Hamel <shamel67@...<mailto:shamel67@...>>
            > Reply-To:
            > "webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>"
            > <webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>>
            > Date: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 12:34 PM To:
            > "webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>"
            > <webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>>
            > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Tag Management Solution
            >
            >
            >
            > Short answer since you said "as soon as possible"! :)
            >
            > Q) will the use of a TMS add to implementation? A) From a pure
            > implementation standpoint, adding a snippet of JavaScript code for a
            > single web analytics solution or adding the bootstrap for a TMS will
            > take the same time. You will also have the same amount of work to do
            > in order to configure your web analytics tool.
            >
            > Your very first implementation might take you a little longer because
            > a) you will need to ramp up with whichever TMS tool you choose and b)
            > you still have to put the snippet of web analytics tracking code in
            > the TMS (or configure through the interface).
            >
            > But... a) once done, maintaining the implementation will be a lot
            > easier and you will save time b) if you deploy multiple tags you
            > will reap the benefits of a TMS by making it much more easy &
            > efficient to deploy them
            >
            > Q) how long would it take for implementation? A) if your scheme of
            > reference is 3 months, I would add at least 20% contingency. On top
            > of the above comment about learning the TMS, don't forget you are
            > adding a new player in the conversation. If you had issues getting
            > your web dev team to add those JS tags you will still have the same
            > challenge getting the TMS tags there... Depending on the client, you
            > might also have to validate with legal and IT for the use of
            > cookies, compliancy and such
            >
            > Hope that helps!
            >
            > Stephane Hamel Director, Strategic Services CardinalPath.com
            >
            > --- In
            > webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > "harshil" <harshilshah_2004@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Hi All,
            >>
            >> I am engaging with some client for web analytics implementation
            >> along with tag management solution.
            >>
            >> Can you please help with the following queries for the same?
            >>
            >> - If we are using a tag management solution rather than regular
            >> javascript page tags method, does it add to the implementation
            >> timeframe or will it reduce the implementation time frame? - Also,
            >> how long would it take for implementation of a web analytics tool
            >> using the tag management solution? (As a reference, considering
            >> that the same implementation using a javascript page tag will take
            >> 3 months)
            >>
            >> Please help with these as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.
            >>
            >> Best Regards, Harshil
            >>
            >
          • Stephane Hamel
            I wouldn t say we are in disagreement my friend - we re constructing on each other comments with constructive feedback :) I guess my point is we ve heard
            Message 5 of 26 , May 2, 2013
              I wouldn't say we are in "disagreement" my friend - we're constructing on each other comments with constructive feedback :)

              I guess my point is we've heard "The time it takes to deploy an enterprise TMS (one line of code referencing a library) literally takes minutes" many times in the past... yet deploying the simplest of tag on every single page of a site (let alone a complex multi-site, sub-domain, 3rd party network of sites) is often a long and tedious process because of resistance, long dev cycles (especially anything transactional or hooked to back office), legal, internal policies, political struggles, etc. Oh yes, once you have overcome all of that it's takes a few minutes :)

              The thought process behind the business requirements is essentially the same (or should be...). The TMS won't magically uncover business needs and all the intricacies of the implementation constraints - people will. The time it takes to paste or configure in the TMS will certainly be shorter. And from that point on, any new tag you have to deploy and any tweak to your tags or configuration will be a lot faster & easier. That's a HUGE benefit of TMSs.

              And now we reach the point of maturity. If organizations could reach that level of discipline and maturity with or without a TMS the world would be a better place... The advent of TMSs raised the awareness of the organization and the whole cycle becomes more important, more critical, more strategic. That's the other HUGE benefit of TMSs.

              Keep the conversation going, curious to hear comments from other agencies, vendors and people from the client side. I would ask a simple question: "the first time you deployed the TMS - how was it?" This is a very interesting thread considering I'm working on a vendor benchmark (results will be available publicly).

              Stephane Hamel
              Director, Strategic Services
              CardinalPath.com

              --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, Bill Bruno <bill.bruno@...> wrote:
              >
              > I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with Stephane here. My team has done over 40 TMS implementations for enterprise customers…primarily focused on Ensighten and GTM.
              >
              > The use of a TMS shortens the runway in two areas:
              >
              > 1. Implementation Time
              > 2. Maturity
              >
              > Implementation Time:
              >
              > If you're looking at a standard deployment of 3 months without a TMS for 1 analytics vendor, you're most likely looking at roughly 4-5 weeks to deploy that same vendor within a TMS. The time it takes to deploy an enterprise TMS (one line of code referencing a library) literally takes minutes. However, we all know that there will be unit testing done by your IT team to ensure this passes all tests..most likely in a DEV environment. So, you're most likely looking at 3-5 days to get the TMS code deployed. However, you don't need to have that code deployed to begin the implementation of the analytics vendor within your TMS. In fact, you can just set up a proxy to deploy that code on your browser only to begin your testing. If you're deploying the base code…that's done in an hour (I'm exaggerating this too…we've done it in minutes). The more advanced deployments (events, link tracking, etc.) take a little finesse from a strategy standpoint such that your implementation is scalable down the road. 4-5 weeks would be on the high end. My team has done full deployments in less than that for one analytics vendor. Pixel tags (DART, etc.) are literally done in minutes.
              >
              > So, in no way would you see an extended implementation with the introduction of a TMS. In fact, there has been quite a bit of research done in the space to back up what I'm saying.
              >
              > Maturity
              >
              > Because you're not spending all of your time on the implementation (and I've seen a non-TMS implementation take over a year due to IT conflicts), you can get actionable data throughout your organization much more quickly. Also, data integration becomes much simpler since you can connect client-side technologies via your TMS deployment. As a result, we've seen an incredible growth in the maturity of analytics programs for clients that have a TMS versus those that don't.
              >
              > This isn't a fad. There aren't smoke and mirrors. It works…and when done right, by the right organization, you'll reap the benefits immediately.
              >
              >
              > Feel free to reach out directly with any questions at all.
              >
              >
              > Bill Bruno
              > CEO | Stratigent
              > (o) 630.658.2215 (c) 773.203.6596 (f) 630.658.2201
              > bill.bruno@...<mailto:bill.bruno@...>
              >
              > [stratigent banner]<http://www.stratigent.com/>
              >
              > Copyright Stratigent, LLC, all rights reserved. This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipients, and contain confidential and proprietary information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution of this email message or its attachments is prohibited.
              >
              > From: Stephane Hamel <shamel67@...<mailto:shamel67@...>>
              > Reply-To: "webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>" <webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>>
              > Date: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 12:34 PM
              > To: "webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>" <webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>>
              > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Tag Management Solution
              >
              >
              >
              > Short answer since you said "as soon as possible"! :)
              >
              > Q) will the use of a TMS add to implementation?
              > A) From a pure implementation standpoint, adding a snippet of JavaScript code for a single web analytics solution or adding the bootstrap for a TMS will take the same time. You will also have the same amount of work to do in order to configure your web analytics tool.
              >
              > Your very first implementation might take you a little longer because
              > a) you will need to ramp up with whichever TMS tool you choose and
              > b) you still have to put the snippet of web analytics tracking code in the TMS (or configure through the interface).
              >
              > But...
              > a) once done, maintaining the implementation will be a lot easier and you will save time
              > b) if you deploy multiple tags you will reap the benefits of a TMS by making it much more easy & efficient to deploy them
              >
              > Q) how long would it take for implementation?
              > A) if your scheme of reference is 3 months, I would add at least 20% contingency. On top of the above comment about learning the TMS, don't forget you are adding a new player in the conversation. If you had issues getting your web dev team to add those JS tags you will still have the same challenge getting the TMS tags there... Depending on the client, you might also have to validate with legal and IT for the use of cookies, compliancy and such
              >
              > Hope that helps!
              >
              > Stephane Hamel
              > Director, Strategic Services
              > CardinalPath.com
              >
              > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>, "harshil" <harshilshah_2004@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi All,
              > >
              > > I am engaging with some client for web analytics implementation along with tag management solution.
              > >
              > > Can you please help with the following queries for the same?
              > >
              > > - If we are using a tag management solution rather than regular javascript page tags method, does it add to the implementation timeframe or will it reduce the implementation time frame?
              > > - Also, how long would it take for implementation of a web analytics tool using the tag management solution? (As a reference, considering that the same implementation using a javascript page tag will take 3 months)
              > >
              > > Please help with these as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.
              > >
              > > Best Regards,
              > > Harshil
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Judah Phillips
              Bill and Stephane, Nice answers and useful information. But what I want to know is TMS hard, easy, or complex or does it depend ? :-) Ha. Have a great day,
              Message 6 of 26 , May 2, 2013
                Bill and Stephane,

                Nice answers and useful information. But what I want to know is TMS hard,
                easy, or complex or does "it depend'? :-) Ha.

                Have a great day,
                Judah


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • srr3306
                I tend to get a little frustrated when I read these discussions around tag management implementations because they tend to solely emphasize the productivity
                Message 7 of 26 , May 2, 2013
                  I tend to get a little frustrated when I read these discussions around tag management implementations because they tend to solely emphasize the productivity and flexibility of IT-free deployments with little or no hardcoding on the pages. While that is all true, what it omits is that it often transfers other burdens to the business side of the house that they are ill prepared for. Stephane started to touch on it. Tags are just software. Event capture just another feature/function of the site. All software development requires requirements definition, design, testing, deployment, and governance in addition to coding and debugging. The governance part is particulatly important as it relates to display ad and targeting/retargetng tags. IT shops are practiced at this. Web analysts and their management are not as a rule. Do not expect a TMS to address these issues for, although they can help in many ways.

                  Steve Robinson

                  --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Stephane Hamel" <shamel67@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I wouldn't say we are in "disagreement" my friend - we're constructing on each other comments with constructive feedback :)
                  >
                  > I guess my point is we've heard "The time it takes to deploy an enterprise TMS (one line of code referencing a library) literally takes minutes" many times in the past... yet deploying the simplest of tag on every single page of a site (let alone a complex multi-site, sub-domain, 3rd party network of sites) is often a long and tedious process because of resistance, long dev cycles (especially anything transactional or hooked to back office), legal, internal policies, political struggles, etc. Oh yes, once you have overcome all of that it's takes a few minutes :)
                  >
                  > The thought process behind the business requirements is essentially the same (or should be...). The TMS won't magically uncover business needs and all the intricacies of the implementation constraints - people will. The time it takes to paste or configure in the TMS will certainly be shorter. And from that point on, any new tag you have to deploy and any tweak to your tags or configuration will be a lot faster & easier. That's a HUGE benefit of TMSs.
                  >
                  > And now we reach the point of maturity. If organizations could reach that level of discipline and maturity with or without a TMS the world would be a better place... The advent of TMSs raised the awareness of the organization and the whole cycle becomes more important, more critical, more strategic. That's the other HUGE benefit of TMSs.
                  >
                  > Keep the conversation going, curious to hear comments from other agencies, vendors and people from the client side. I would ask a simple question: "the first time you deployed the TMS - how was it?" This is a very interesting thread considering I'm working on a vendor benchmark (results will be available publicly).
                  >
                  > Stephane Hamel
                  > Director, Strategic Services
                  > CardinalPath.com
                  >
                • Bill Bruno
                  I m not seeing the same complications that you mention, and the majority of the 40+ deployments we have done have been for large clients with complex sites.
                  Message 8 of 26 , May 2, 2013
                    I'm not seeing the same complications that you mention, and the majority of the 40+ deployments we have done have been for large clients with complex sites. Many of these clients also have an international presence as well.

                    My team manages the entire implementation/ongoing maintenance of the TMS for our clients, including rule development for all tags, so perhaps that is why we are having different experiences? We are able to re-use a lot of prior work with slight modifications for our clients and have compiled an entire strategic framework for TMS deployments broken out by vendor type. This also takes into account the current state and desired future state for technology interaction for each client.

                    I also wanted to touch on a few of the "roadblocks" you mentioned:


                    * Resistance - We actually have not seen resistance once a TMS has been selected (typically via a POC). In fact, in the majority of cases, the IT teams for our clients are thrilled that they don't have to manage analytics tags anymore the old fashioned way.

                    * Long Dev Cycles - Strategically, you can avoid this by creating a process and governance for rules and including the Dev, Stage, Prod environments on the client side.

                    * Legal, Politics, etc. - After a POC, these all go away and we can get to work. Time to deployment should not factor in the "vendor selection" phase. That simply doesn't make sense. Procurement is procurement, and we all know how they can be. Time to deployment should be from clearance to use through completion of the work.

                    Honestly, I think you are making it sound way more complicated than this actually is. In fact, rarely did the old-fashioned way of tagging actually give the client 100% fulfillment of their requirements because of IT shortcuts due to deadlines, etc. With a TMS, and the right team leading a strategic implementation, you can ensure that 100% of the business requirements are met. TMS requires expertise, and as such, those experts can ensure it gets done right the first time.

                    There is nothing worse than tagging the old-fashioned way and having to wait months for changes/fixes. That all goes away with TMS.



                    Bill Bruno
                    CEO | Stratigent
                    (o) 630.658.2215 (c) 773.203.6596 (f) 773.203.6596
                    bill.bruno@...<mailto:bill.bruno@...>

                    [stratigent banner]<http://www.stratigent.com/>

                    Copyright Stratigent, LLC, all rights reserved. This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipients, and contain confidential and proprietary information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution of this email message or its attachments is prohibited.

                    From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephane Hamel
                    Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 7:44 AM
                    To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Tag Management Solution



                    I wouldn't say we are in "disagreement" my friend - we're constructing on each other comments with constructive feedback :)

                    I guess my point is we've heard "The time it takes to deploy an enterprise TMS (one line of code referencing a library) literally takes minutes" many times in the past... yet deploying the simplest of tag on every single page of a site (let alone a complex multi-site, sub-domain, 3rd party network of sites) is often a long and tedious process because of resistance, long dev cycles (especially anything transactional or hooked to back office), legal, internal policies, political struggles, etc. Oh yes, once you have overcome all of that it's takes a few minutes :)

                    The thought process behind the business requirements is essentially the same (or should be...). The TMS won't magically uncover business needs and all the intricacies of the implementation constraints - people will. The time it takes to paste or configure in the TMS will certainly be shorter. And from that point on, any new tag you have to deploy and any tweak to your tags or configuration will be a lot faster & easier. That's a HUGE benefit of TMSs.

                    And now we reach the point of maturity. If organizations could reach that level of discipline and maturity with or without a TMS the world would be a better place... The advent of TMSs raised the awareness of the organization and the whole cycle becomes more important, more critical, more strategic. That's the other HUGE benefit of TMSs.

                    Keep the conversation going, curious to hear comments from other agencies, vendors and people from the client side. I would ask a simple question: "the first time you deployed the TMS - how was it?" This is a very interesting thread considering I'm working on a vendor benchmark (results will be available publicly).

                    Stephane Hamel
                    Director, Strategic Services
                    CardinalPath.com

                    --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill Bruno <bill.bruno@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with Stephane here. My team has done over 40 TMS implementations for enterprise customers...primarily focused on Ensighten and GTM.
                    >
                    > The use of a TMS shortens the runway in two areas:
                    >
                    > 1. Implementation Time
                    > 2. Maturity
                    >
                    > Implementation Time:
                    >
                    > If you're looking at a standard deployment of 3 months without a TMS for 1 analytics vendor, you're most likely looking at roughly 4-5 weeks to deploy that same vendor within a TMS. The time it takes to deploy an enterprise TMS (one line of code referencing a library) literally takes minutes. However, we all know that there will be unit testing done by your IT team to ensure this passes all tests..most likely in a DEV environment. So, you're most likely looking at 3-5 days to get the TMS code deployed. However, you don't need to have that code deployed to begin the implementation of the analytics vendor within your TMS. In fact, you can just set up a proxy to deploy that code on your browser only to begin your testing. If you're deploying the base code...that's done in an hour (I'm exaggerating this too...we've done it in minutes). The more advanced deployments (events, link tracking, etc.) take a little finesse from a strategy standpoint such that your implementation is scalable down the road. 4-5 weeks would be on the high end. My team has done full deployments in less than that for one analytics vendor. Pixel tags (DART, etc.) are literally done in minutes.
                    >
                    > So, in no way would you see an extended implementation with the introduction of a TMS. In fact, there has been quite a bit of research done in the space to back up what I'm saying.
                    >
                    > Maturity
                    >
                    > Because you're not spending all of your time on the implementation (and I've seen a non-TMS implementation take over a year due to IT conflicts), you can get actionable data throughout your organization much more quickly. Also, data integration becomes much simpler since you can connect client-side technologies via your TMS deployment. As a result, we've seen an incredible growth in the maturity of analytics programs for clients that have a TMS versus those that don't.
                    >
                    > This isn't a fad. There aren't smoke and mirrors. It works...and when done right, by the right organization, you'll reap the benefits immediately.
                    >
                    >
                    > Feel free to reach out directly with any questions at all.
                    >
                    >
                    > Bill Bruno
                    > CEO | Stratigent
                    > (o) 630.658.2215 (c) 773.203.6596 (f) 630.658.2201
                    > bill.bruno@...<mailto:bill.bruno@...>
                    >
                    > [stratigent banner]<http://www.stratigent.com/>
                    >
                    > Copyright Stratigent, LLC, all rights reserved. This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipients, and contain confidential and proprietary information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution of this email message or its attachments is prohibited.
                    >
                    > From: Stephane Hamel <shamel67@...<mailto:shamel67@...>>
                    > Reply-To: "webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>>" <webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>>>
                    > Date: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 12:34 PM
                    > To: "webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>>" <webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>>>
                    > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Tag Management Solution
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Short answer since you said "as soon as possible"! :)
                    >
                    > Q) will the use of a TMS add to implementation?
                    > A) From a pure implementation standpoint, adding a snippet of JavaScript code for a single web analytics solution or adding the bootstrap for a TMS will take the same time. You will also have the same amount of work to do in order to configure your web analytics tool.
                    >
                    > Your very first implementation might take you a little longer because
                    > a) you will need to ramp up with whichever TMS tool you choose and
                    > b) you still have to put the snippet of web analytics tracking code in the TMS (or configure through the interface).
                    >
                    > But...
                    > a) once done, maintaining the implementation will be a lot easier and you will save time
                    > b) if you deploy multiple tags you will reap the benefits of a TMS by making it much more easy & efficient to deploy them
                    >
                    > Q) how long would it take for implementation?
                    > A) if your scheme of reference is 3 months, I would add at least 20% contingency. On top of the above comment about learning the TMS, don't forget you are adding a new player in the conversation. If you had issues getting your web dev team to add those JS tags you will still have the same challenge getting the TMS tags there... Depending on the client, you might also have to validate with legal and IT for the use of cookies, compliancy and such
                    >
                    > Hope that helps!
                    >
                    > Stephane Hamel
                    > Director, Strategic Services
                    > CardinalPath.com
                    >
                    > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>, "harshil" <harshilshah_2004@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi All,
                    > >
                    > > I am engaging with some client for web analytics implementation along with tag management solution.
                    > >
                    > > Can you please help with the following queries for the same?
                    > >
                    > > - If we are using a tag management solution rather than regular javascript page tags method, does it add to the implementation timeframe or will it reduce the implementation time frame?
                    > > - Also, how long would it take for implementation of a web analytics tool using the tag management solution? (As a reference, considering that the same implementation using a javascript page tag will take 3 months)
                    > >
                    > > Please help with these as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.
                    > >
                    > > Best Regards,
                    > > Harshil
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Joe Brown
                    In my experience IT shops are not experienced with tags . They simply throw them up when directed. Another nice advantage with TMS is the ability to easily
                    Message 9 of 26 , May 2, 2013
                      In my experience IT shops are not experienced with "tags". They simply throw them up when directed. Another nice advantage with TMS is the ability to easily pilot new technologies to see if they produce the roi the sales folks always boast about. A 1-2 month trial becomes very easy to run when using a TMS.

                      Sent from my iPhone

                      On 02 May,2013, at 2:01 PM, "srr3306" <srr3306@...> wrote:

                      > I tend to get a little frustrated when I read these discussions around tag management implementations because they tend to solely emphasize the productivity and flexibility of IT-free deployments with little or no hardcoding on the pages. While that is all true, what it omits is that it often transfers other burdens to the business side of the house that they are ill prepared for. Stephane started to touch on it. Tags are just software. Event capture just another feature/function of the site. All software development requires requirements definition, design, testing, deployment, and governance in addition to coding and debugging. The governance part is particulatly important as it relates to display ad and targeting/retargetng tags. IT shops are practiced at this. Web analysts and their management are not as a rule. Do not expect a TMS to address these issues for, although they can help in many ways.
                      >
                      > Steve Robinson
                      >
                      > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Stephane Hamel" <shamel67@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I wouldn't say we are in "disagreement" my friend - we're constructing on each other comments with constructive feedback :)
                      > >
                      > > I guess my point is we've heard "The time it takes to deploy an enterprise TMS (one line of code referencing a library) literally takes minutes" many times in the past... yet deploying the simplest of tag on every single page of a site (let alone a complex multi-site, sub-domain, 3rd party network of sites) is often a long and tedious process because of resistance, long dev cycles (especially anything transactional or hooked to back office), legal, internal policies, political struggles, etc. Oh yes, once you have overcome all of that it's takes a few minutes :)
                      > >
                      > > The thought process behind the business requirements is essentially the same (or should be...). The TMS won't magically uncover business needs and all the intricacies of the implementation constraints - people will. The time it takes to paste or configure in the TMS will certainly be shorter. And from that point on, any new tag you have to deploy and any tweak to your tags or configuration will be a lot faster & easier. That's a HUGE benefit of TMSs.
                      > >
                      > > And now we reach the point of maturity. If organizations could reach that level of discipline and maturity with or without a TMS the world would be a better place... The advent of TMSs raised the awareness of the organization and the whole cycle becomes more important, more critical, more strategic. That's the other HUGE benefit of TMSs.
                      > >
                      > > Keep the conversation going, curious to hear comments from other agencies, vendors and people from the client side. I would ask a simple question: "the first time you deployed the TMS - how was it?" This is a very interesting thread considering I'm working on a vendor benchmark (results will be available publicly).
                      > >
                      > > Stephane Hamel
                      > > Director, Strategic Services
                      > > CardinalPath.com
                      > >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Stephane Hamel
                      Bill, I trust you have a very good experience of TMSs given the close historical ties between Stratigent and Ensighten. Most of the time agencies such as
                      Message 10 of 26 , May 2, 2013
                        Bill, I trust you have a very good experience of TMSs given the close historical ties between Stratigent and Ensighten. Most of the time agencies such as Stratigent or Cardinal Path come into play once the business decision has been made to go with a TMS. This is the brighter side... but I have also seen practitioners and managers of analytics who had to convince IT, legal and others of the importance of a TMS *before* a partner comes into play. I think we're essentially agreeing - your comments about resistance, dev cycles, legal, procurement are largely unrelated to technology and TMSs themselves, they are governance and best-practice related. At the end of the day, one thing is sure: nobody should deploy analytics, ad networks and other tags manually like in the "old days". A TMS is a must.

                        --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, Bill Bruno <bill.bruno@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I'm not seeing the same complications that you mention, and the majority of the 40+ deployments we have done have been for large clients with complex sites. Many of these clients also have an international presence as well.
                        >
                        > My team manages the entire implementation/ongoing maintenance of the TMS for our clients, including rule development for all tags, so perhaps that is why we are having different experiences? We are able to re-use a lot of prior work with slight modifications for our clients and have compiled an entire strategic framework for TMS deployments broken out by vendor type. This also takes into account the current state and desired future state for technology interaction for each client.
                        >
                        > I also wanted to touch on a few of the "roadblocks" you mentioned:
                        >
                        >
                        > * Resistance - We actually have not seen resistance once a TMS has been selected (typically via a POC). In fact, in the majority of cases, the IT teams for our clients are thrilled that they don't have to manage analytics tags anymore the old fashioned way.
                        >
                        > * Long Dev Cycles - Strategically, you can avoid this by creating a process and governance for rules and including the Dev, Stage, Prod environments on the client side.
                        >
                        > * Legal, Politics, etc. - After a POC, these all go away and we can get to work. Time to deployment should not factor in the "vendor selection" phase. That simply doesn't make sense. Procurement is procurement, and we all know how they can be. Time to deployment should be from clearance to use through completion of the work.
                        >
                        > Honestly, I think you are making it sound way more complicated than this actually is. In fact, rarely did the old-fashioned way of tagging actually give the client 100% fulfillment of their requirements because of IT shortcuts due to deadlines, etc. With a TMS, and the right team leading a strategic implementation, you can ensure that 100% of the business requirements are met. TMS requires expertise, and as such, those experts can ensure it gets done right the first time.
                        >
                        > There is nothing worse than tagging the old-fashioned way and having to wait months for changes/fixes. That all goes away with TMS.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Bill Bruno
                        > CEO | Stratigent
                        > (o) 630.658.2215 (c) 773.203.6596 (f) 773.203.6596
                        > bill.bruno@...<mailto:bill.bruno@...>
                        >
                        > [stratigent banner]<http://www.stratigent.com/>
                        >
                        > Copyright Stratigent, LLC, all rights reserved. This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipients, and contain confidential and proprietary information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution of this email message or its attachments is prohibited.
                        >
                        > From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephane Hamel
                        > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 7:44 AM
                        > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Tag Management Solution
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I wouldn't say we are in "disagreement" my friend - we're constructing on each other comments with constructive feedback :)
                        >
                        > I guess my point is we've heard "The time it takes to deploy an enterprise TMS (one line of code referencing a library) literally takes minutes" many times in the past... yet deploying the simplest of tag on every single page of a site (let alone a complex multi-site, sub-domain, 3rd party network of sites) is often a long and tedious process because of resistance, long dev cycles (especially anything transactional or hooked to back office), legal, internal policies, political struggles, etc. Oh yes, once you have overcome all of that it's takes a few minutes :)
                        >
                        > The thought process behind the business requirements is essentially the same (or should be...). The TMS won't magically uncover business needs and all the intricacies of the implementation constraints - people will. The time it takes to paste or configure in the TMS will certainly be shorter. And from that point on, any new tag you have to deploy and any tweak to your tags or configuration will be a lot faster & easier. That's a HUGE benefit of TMSs.
                        >
                        > And now we reach the point of maturity. If organizations could reach that level of discipline and maturity with or without a TMS the world would be a better place... The advent of TMSs raised the awareness of the organization and the whole cycle becomes more important, more critical, more strategic. That's the other HUGE benefit of TMSs.
                        >
                        > Keep the conversation going, curious to hear comments from other agencies, vendors and people from the client side. I would ask a simple question: "the first time you deployed the TMS - how was it?" This is a very interesting thread considering I'm working on a vendor benchmark (results will be available publicly).
                        >
                        > Stephane Hamel
                        > Director, Strategic Services
                        > CardinalPath.com
                        >
                        > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill Bruno <bill.bruno@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with Stephane here. My team has done over 40 TMS implementations for enterprise customers...primarily focused on Ensighten and GTM.
                        > >
                        > > The use of a TMS shortens the runway in two areas:
                        > >
                        > > 1. Implementation Time
                        > > 2. Maturity
                        > >
                        > > Implementation Time:
                        > >
                        > > If you're looking at a standard deployment of 3 months without a TMS for 1 analytics vendor, you're most likely looking at roughly 4-5 weeks to deploy that same vendor within a TMS. The time it takes to deploy an enterprise TMS (one line of code referencing a library) literally takes minutes. However, we all know that there will be unit testing done by your IT team to ensure this passes all tests..most likely in a DEV environment. So, you're most likely looking at 3-5 days to get the TMS code deployed. However, you don't need to have that code deployed to begin the implementation of the analytics vendor within your TMS. In fact, you can just set up a proxy to deploy that code on your browser only to begin your testing. If you're deploying the base code...that's done in an hour (I'm exaggerating this too...we've done it in minutes). The more advanced deployments (events, link tracking, etc.) take a little finesse from a strategy standpoint such that your implementation is scalable down the road. 4-5 weeks would be on the high end. My team has done full deployments in less than that for one analytics vendor. Pixel tags (DART, etc.) are literally done in minutes.
                        > >
                        > > So, in no way would you see an extended implementation with the introduction of a TMS. In fact, there has been quite a bit of research done in the space to back up what I'm saying.
                        > >
                        > > Maturity
                        > >
                        > > Because you're not spending all of your time on the implementation (and I've seen a non-TMS implementation take over a year due to IT conflicts), you can get actionable data throughout your organization much more quickly. Also, data integration becomes much simpler since you can connect client-side technologies via your TMS deployment. As a result, we've seen an incredible growth in the maturity of analytics programs for clients that have a TMS versus those that don't.
                        > >
                        > > This isn't a fad. There aren't smoke and mirrors. It works...and when done right, by the right organization, you'll reap the benefits immediately.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Feel free to reach out directly with any questions at all.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Bill Bruno
                        > > CEO | Stratigent
                        > > (o) 630.658.2215 (c) 773.203.6596 (f) 630.658.2201
                        > > bill.bruno@<mailto:bill.bruno@>
                        > >
                        > > [stratigent banner]<http://www.stratigent.com/>
                        > >
                        > > Copyright Stratigent, LLC, all rights reserved. This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipients, and contain confidential and proprietary information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution of this email message or its attachments is prohibited.
                        > >
                        > > From: Stephane Hamel <shamel67@<mailto:shamel67@>>
                        > > Reply-To: "webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>>" <webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>>>
                        > > Date: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 12:34 PM
                        > > To: "webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>>" <webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>>>
                        > > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Tag Management Solution
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Short answer since you said "as soon as possible"! :)
                        > >
                        > > Q) will the use of a TMS add to implementation?
                        > > A) From a pure implementation standpoint, adding a snippet of JavaScript code for a single web analytics solution or adding the bootstrap for a TMS will take the same time. You will also have the same amount of work to do in order to configure your web analytics tool.
                        > >
                        > > Your very first implementation might take you a little longer because
                        > > a) you will need to ramp up with whichever TMS tool you choose and
                        > > b) you still have to put the snippet of web analytics tracking code in the TMS (or configure through the interface).
                        > >
                        > > But...
                        > > a) once done, maintaining the implementation will be a lot easier and you will save time
                        > > b) if you deploy multiple tags you will reap the benefits of a TMS by making it much more easy & efficient to deploy them
                        > >
                        > > Q) how long would it take for implementation?
                        > > A) if your scheme of reference is 3 months, I would add at least 20% contingency. On top of the above comment about learning the TMS, don't forget you are adding a new player in the conversation. If you had issues getting your web dev team to add those JS tags you will still have the same challenge getting the TMS tags there... Depending on the client, you might also have to validate with legal and IT for the use of cookies, compliancy and such
                        > >
                        > > Hope that helps!
                        > >
                        > > Stephane Hamel
                        > > Director, Strategic Services
                        > > CardinalPath.com
                        > >
                        > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>, "harshil" <harshilshah_2004@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hi All,
                        > > >
                        > > > I am engaging with some client for web analytics implementation along with tag management solution.
                        > > >
                        > > > Can you please help with the following queries for the same?
                        > > >
                        > > > - If we are using a tag management solution rather than regular javascript page tags method, does it add to the implementation timeframe or will it reduce the implementation time frame?
                        > > > - Also, how long would it take for implementation of a web analytics tool using the tag management solution? (As a reference, considering that the same implementation using a javascript page tag will take 3 months)
                        > > >
                        > > > Please help with these as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.
                        > > >
                        > > > Best Regards,
                        > > > Harshil
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Stephane Hamel
                        Hey Judah! What about: TMSs simplifies a complex issue, but does not make it magical :)
                        Message 11 of 26 , May 2, 2013
                          Hey Judah!
                          What about: TMSs simplifies a complex issue, but does not make it magical :)

                          --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, Judah Phillips <judahphillips@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Bill and Stephane,
                          >
                          > Nice answers and useful information. But what I want to know is TMS hard,
                          > easy, or complex or does "it depend'? :-) Ha.
                          >
                          > Have a great day,
                          > Judah
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • harshil
                          Thanks Bill. That adds more to the understanding.
                          Message 12 of 26 , May 3, 2013
                            Thanks Bill. That adds more to the understanding.

                            --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, Bill Bruno <bill.bruno@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with Stephane here. My team has done over 40 TMS implementations for enterprise customers…primarily focused on Ensighten and GTM.
                            >
                            > The use of a TMS shortens the runway in two areas:
                            >
                            > 1. Implementation Time
                            > 2. Maturity
                            >
                            > Implementation Time:
                            >
                            > If you're looking at a standard deployment of 3 months without a TMS for 1 analytics vendor, you're most likely looking at roughly 4-5 weeks to deploy that same vendor within a TMS. The time it takes to deploy an enterprise TMS (one line of code referencing a library) literally takes minutes. However, we all know that there will be unit testing done by your IT team to ensure this passes all tests..most likely in a DEV environment. So, you're most likely looking at 3-5 days to get the TMS code deployed. However, you don't need to have that code deployed to begin the implementation of the analytics vendor within your TMS. In fact, you can just set up a proxy to deploy that code on your browser only to begin your testing. If you're deploying the base code…that's done in an hour (I'm exaggerating this too…we've done it in minutes). The more advanced deployments (events, link tracking, etc.) take a little finesse from a strategy standpoint such that your implementation is scalable down the road. 4-5 weeks would be on the high end. My team has done full deployments in less than that for one analytics vendor. Pixel tags (DART, etc.) are literally done in minutes.
                            >
                            > So, in no way would you see an extended implementation with the introduction of a TMS. In fact, there has been quite a bit of research done in the space to back up what I'm saying.
                            >
                            > Maturity
                            >
                            > Because you're not spending all of your time on the implementation (and I've seen a non-TMS implementation take over a year due to IT conflicts), you can get actionable data throughout your organization much more quickly. Also, data integration becomes much simpler since you can connect client-side technologies via your TMS deployment. As a result, we've seen an incredible growth in the maturity of analytics programs for clients that have a TMS versus those that don't.
                            >
                            > This isn't a fad. There aren't smoke and mirrors. It works…and when done right, by the right organization, you'll reap the benefits immediately.
                            >
                            >
                            > Feel free to reach out directly with any questions at all.
                            >
                            >
                            > Bill Bruno
                            > CEO | Stratigent
                            > (o) 630.658.2215 (c) 773.203.6596 (f) 630.658.2201
                            > bill.bruno@...<mailto:bill.bruno@...>
                            >
                            > [stratigent banner]<http://www.stratigent.com/>
                            >
                            > Copyright Stratigent, LLC, all rights reserved. This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipients, and contain confidential and proprietary information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution of this email message or its attachments is prohibited.
                            >
                            > From: Stephane Hamel <shamel67@...<mailto:shamel67@...>>
                            > Reply-To: "webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>" <webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>>
                            > Date: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 12:34 PM
                            > To: "webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>" <webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com>>
                            > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Tag Management Solution
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Short answer since you said "as soon as possible"! :)
                            >
                            > Q) will the use of a TMS add to implementation?
                            > A) From a pure implementation standpoint, adding a snippet of JavaScript code for a single web analytics solution or adding the bootstrap for a TMS will take the same time. You will also have the same amount of work to do in order to configure your web analytics tool.
                            >
                            > Your very first implementation might take you a little longer because
                            > a) you will need to ramp up with whichever TMS tool you choose and
                            > b) you still have to put the snippet of web analytics tracking code in the TMS (or configure through the interface).
                            >
                            > But...
                            > a) once done, maintaining the implementation will be a lot easier and you will save time
                            > b) if you deploy multiple tags you will reap the benefits of a TMS by making it much more easy & efficient to deploy them
                            >
                            > Q) how long would it take for implementation?
                            > A) if your scheme of reference is 3 months, I would add at least 20% contingency. On top of the above comment about learning the TMS, don't forget you are adding a new player in the conversation. If you had issues getting your web dev team to add those JS tags you will still have the same challenge getting the TMS tags there... Depending on the client, you might also have to validate with legal and IT for the use of cookies, compliancy and such
                            >
                            > Hope that helps!
                            >
                            > Stephane Hamel
                            > Director, Strategic Services
                            > CardinalPath.com
                            >
                            > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>, "harshil" <harshilshah_2004@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hi All,
                            > >
                            > > I am engaging with some client for web analytics implementation along with tag management solution.
                            > >
                            > > Can you please help with the following queries for the same?
                            > >
                            > > - If we are using a tag management solution rather than regular javascript page tags method, does it add to the implementation timeframe or will it reduce the implementation time frame?
                            > > - Also, how long would it take for implementation of a web analytics tool using the tag management solution? (As a reference, considering that the same implementation using a javascript page tag will take 3 months)
                            > >
                            > > Please help with these as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.
                            > >
                            > > Best Regards,
                            > > Harshil
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • joebull714
                            I work at a fortune 250 Financial Services company that deployed a TMS about 2 years ago. It was relatively easy to get IT Security on board as well as Legal.
                            Message 13 of 26 , May 3, 2013
                              I work at a fortune 250 Financial Services company that deployed a TMS about 2 years ago. It was relatively easy to get IT Security on board as well as Legal. However the IT Dev teams have been skeptical as the TMS tool allows a "business" person to inject code into our websites and mobile applications. Now that we have the TMS in place it has allowed us to easily introduce a VOC feedback tool pretty easily onto our sites. We still had to go through the legal, compliance, IT security hurdles first though.

                              IMHO the TMS we have in place has made my teams life much easier and put us in greater control of our future by drastically reducing the reliance on IT to assist us with managing and configuring our tags. This is because IT at the company I work for has a very long release cycle and my requests were always prioritized very low by IT.



                              --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Stephane Hamel" <shamel67@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Bill, I trust you have a very good experience of TMSs given the close historical ties between Stratigent and Ensighten. Most of the time agencies such as Stratigent or Cardinal Path come into play once the business decision has been made to go with a TMS. This is the brighter side... but I have also seen practitioners and managers of analytics who had to convince IT, legal and others of the importance of a TMS *before* a partner comes into play. I think we're essentially agreeing - your comments about resistance, dev cycles, legal, procurement are largely unrelated to technology and TMSs themselves, they are governance and best-practice related. At the end of the day, one thing is sure: nobody should deploy analytics, ad networks and other tags manually like in the "old days". A TMS is a must.
                              >
                              > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, Bill Bruno <bill.bruno@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I'm not seeing the same complications that you mention, and the majority of the 40+ deployments we have done have been for large clients with complex sites. Many of these clients also have an international presence as well.
                              > >
                              > > My team manages the entire implementation/ongoing maintenance of the TMS for our clients, including rule development for all tags, so perhaps that is why we are having different experiences? We are able to re-use a lot of prior work with slight modifications for our clients and have compiled an entire strategic framework for TMS deployments broken out by vendor type. This also takes into account the current state and desired future state for technology interaction for each client.
                              > >
                              > > I also wanted to touch on a few of the "roadblocks" you mentioned:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > * Resistance - We actually have not seen resistance once a TMS has been selected (typically via a POC). In fact, in the majority of cases, the IT teams for our clients are thrilled that they don't have to manage analytics tags anymore the old fashioned way.
                              > >
                              > > * Long Dev Cycles - Strategically, you can avoid this by creating a process and governance for rules and including the Dev, Stage, Prod environments on the client side.
                              > >
                              > > * Legal, Politics, etc. - After a POC, these all go away and we can get to work. Time to deployment should not factor in the "vendor selection" phase. That simply doesn't make sense. Procurement is procurement, and we all know how they can be. Time to deployment should be from clearance to use through completion of the work.
                              > >
                              > > Honestly, I think you are making it sound way more complicated than this actually is. In fact, rarely did the old-fashioned way of tagging actually give the client 100% fulfillment of their requirements because of IT shortcuts due to deadlines, etc. With a TMS, and the right team leading a strategic implementation, you can ensure that 100% of the business requirements are met. TMS requires expertise, and as such, those experts can ensure it gets done right the first time.
                              > >
                              > > There is nothing worse than tagging the old-fashioned way and having to wait months for changes/fixes. That all goes away with TMS.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Bill Bruno
                              > > CEO | Stratigent
                              > > (o) 630.658.2215 (c) 773.203.6596 (f) 773.203.6596
                              > > bill.bruno@<mailto:bill.bruno@>
                              > >
                              > > [stratigent banner]<http://www.stratigent.com/>
                              > >
                              > > Copyright Stratigent, LLC, all rights reserved. This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipients, and contain confidential and proprietary information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution of this email message or its attachments is prohibited.
                              > >
                              > > From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephane Hamel
                              > > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 7:44 AM
                              > > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Tag Management Solution
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > I wouldn't say we are in "disagreement" my friend - we're constructing on each other comments with constructive feedback :)
                              > >
                              > > I guess my point is we've heard "The time it takes to deploy an enterprise TMS (one line of code referencing a library) literally takes minutes" many times in the past... yet deploying the simplest of tag on every single page of a site (let alone a complex multi-site, sub-domain, 3rd party network of sites) is often a long and tedious process because of resistance, long dev cycles (especially anything transactional or hooked to back office), legal, internal policies, political struggles, etc. Oh yes, once you have overcome all of that it's takes a few minutes :)
                              > >
                              > > The thought process behind the business requirements is essentially the same (or should be...). The TMS won't magically uncover business needs and all the intricacies of the implementation constraints - people will. The time it takes to paste or configure in the TMS will certainly be shorter. And from that point on, any new tag you have to deploy and any tweak to your tags or configuration will be a lot faster & easier. That's a HUGE benefit of TMSs.
                              > >
                              > > And now we reach the point of maturity. If organizations could reach that level of discipline and maturity with or without a TMS the world would be a better place... The advent of TMSs raised the awareness of the organization and the whole cycle becomes more important, more critical, more strategic. That's the other HUGE benefit of TMSs.
                              > >
                              > > Keep the conversation going, curious to hear comments from other agencies, vendors and people from the client side. I would ask a simple question: "the first time you deployed the TMS - how was it?" This is a very interesting thread considering I'm working on a vendor benchmark (results will be available publicly).
                              > >
                              > > Stephane Hamel
                              > > Director, Strategic Services
                              > > CardinalPath.com
                              > >
                              > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill Bruno <bill.bruno@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with Stephane here. My team has done over 40 TMS implementations for enterprise customers...primarily focused on Ensighten and GTM.
                              > > >
                              > > > The use of a TMS shortens the runway in two areas:
                              > > >
                              > > > 1. Implementation Time
                              > > > 2. Maturity
                              > > >
                              > > > Implementation Time:
                              > > >
                              > > > If you're looking at a standard deployment of 3 months without a TMS for 1 analytics vendor, you're most likely looking at roughly 4-5 weeks to deploy that same vendor within a TMS. The time it takes to deploy an enterprise TMS (one line of code referencing a library) literally takes minutes. However, we all know that there will be unit testing done by your IT team to ensure this passes all tests..most likely in a DEV environment. So, you're most likely looking at 3-5 days to get the TMS code deployed. However, you don't need to have that code deployed to begin the implementation of the analytics vendor within your TMS. In fact, you can just set up a proxy to deploy that code on your browser only to begin your testing. If you're deploying the base code...that's done in an hour (I'm exaggerating this too...we've done it in minutes). The more advanced deployments (events, link tracking, etc.) take a little finesse from a strategy standpoint such that your implementation is scalable down the road. 4-5 weeks would be on the high end. My team has done full deployments in less than that for one analytics vendor. Pixel tags (DART, etc.) are literally done in minutes.
                              > > >
                              > > > So, in no way would you see an extended implementation with the introduction of a TMS. In fact, there has been quite a bit of research done in the space to back up what I'm saying.
                              > > >
                              > > > Maturity
                              > > >
                              > > > Because you're not spending all of your time on the implementation (and I've seen a non-TMS implementation take over a year due to IT conflicts), you can get actionable data throughout your organization much more quickly. Also, data integration becomes much simpler since you can connect client-side technologies via your TMS deployment. As a result, we've seen an incredible growth in the maturity of analytics programs for clients that have a TMS versus those that don't.
                              > > >
                              > > > This isn't a fad. There aren't smoke and mirrors. It works...and when done right, by the right organization, you'll reap the benefits immediately.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Feel free to reach out directly with any questions at all.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Bill Bruno
                              > > > CEO | Stratigent
                              > > > (o) 630.658.2215 (c) 773.203.6596 (f) 630.658.2201
                              > > > bill.bruno@<mailto:bill.bruno@>
                              > > >
                              > > > [stratigent banner]<http://www.stratigent.com/>
                              > > >
                              > > > Copyright Stratigent, LLC, all rights reserved. This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipients, and contain confidential and proprietary information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution of this email message or its attachments is prohibited.
                              > > >
                              > > > From: Stephane Hamel <shamel67@<mailto:shamel67@>>
                              > > > Reply-To: "webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>>" <webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>>>
                              > > > Date: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 12:34 PM
                              > > > To: "webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>>" <webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>>>
                              > > > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Tag Management Solution
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Short answer since you said "as soon as possible"! :)
                              > > >
                              > > > Q) will the use of a TMS add to implementation?
                              > > > A) From a pure implementation standpoint, adding a snippet of JavaScript code for a single web analytics solution or adding the bootstrap for a TMS will take the same time. You will also have the same amount of work to do in order to configure your web analytics tool.
                              > > >
                              > > > Your very first implementation might take you a little longer because
                              > > > a) you will need to ramp up with whichever TMS tool you choose and
                              > > > b) you still have to put the snippet of web analytics tracking code in the TMS (or configure through the interface).
                              > > >
                              > > > But...
                              > > > a) once done, maintaining the implementation will be a lot easier and you will save time
                              > > > b) if you deploy multiple tags you will reap the benefits of a TMS by making it much more easy & efficient to deploy them
                              > > >
                              > > > Q) how long would it take for implementation?
                              > > > A) if your scheme of reference is 3 months, I would add at least 20% contingency. On top of the above comment about learning the TMS, don't forget you are adding a new player in the conversation. If you had issues getting your web dev team to add those JS tags you will still have the same challenge getting the TMS tags there... Depending on the client, you might also have to validate with legal and IT for the use of cookies, compliancy and such
                              > > >
                              > > > Hope that helps!
                              > > >
                              > > > Stephane Hamel
                              > > > Director, Strategic Services
                              > > > CardinalPath.com
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>, "harshil" <harshilshah_2004@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Hi All,
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I am engaging with some client for web analytics implementation along with tag management solution.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Can you please help with the following queries for the same?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > - If we are using a tag management solution rather than regular javascript page tags method, does it add to the implementation timeframe or will it reduce the implementation time frame?
                              > > > > - Also, how long would it take for implementation of a web analytics tool using the tag management solution? (As a reference, considering that the same implementation using a javascript page tag will take 3 months)
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Please help with these as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Best Regards,
                              > > > > Harshil
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                            • rshumpe
                              I have been a part of over 50 TMS implementations using all of the vendors you listed below and others. A TMS is not a magic potion that will instantly fix
                              Message 14 of 26 , May 3, 2013
                                I have been a part of over 50 TMS implementations using all of the vendors you listed below and others. A TMS is not a magic potion that will instantly fix bad markup on your site and make everything happen for you automatically.

                                What is should do is make things easier and faster for you to handle. Also if a TMS vendor tells you they will eliminate the need for any javascript skills on your team they are lying.

                                Full Disclosure: After spending time working on the systems you listed I decided to work for the TMS system that had provided for my projects & clients the best experience with is Satellite TMS by Search Discovery.

                                You can reach me at rudi @ searchdiscovery.com or check out our blog for a wealth of information on our system.

                                http://www.searchdiscovery.com/satellite/blog/

                                -Rudi
                                @RudiShumpert on Twitter.


                                --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "dhinglidesai" <dhinglidesai@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi All,
                                >
                                > Our company is looking to implement a tag managment solution to accomodate for web analytics tags, pixels, custom parameter capture etc.
                                >
                                > The four major players we have heard about in the industry are Tealium, Ensighten, TagMan and BrightTag.
                                >
                                > Would be great if I can get any feedback on these vendors from the group here.
                                >
                                > Thanks!
                                >
                              • harshil
                                Hi All, Thanks for the help on this. I have one more query on the same. During the deployment of the tag management solution and also of the tags on the web
                                Message 15 of 26 , May 7, 2013
                                  Hi All,

                                  Thanks for the help on this.

                                  I have one more query on the same.

                                  During the deployment of the tag management solution and also of the tags on the web pages, what kind of role and what activities is required from the client? What kind of assistance/clarifications/understanding is required from the client side?

                                  --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "harshil" <harshilshah_2004@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi All,
                                  >
                                  > I am engaging with some client for web analytics implementation along with tag management solution.
                                  >
                                  > Can you please help with the following queries for the same?
                                  >
                                  > - If we are using a tag management solution rather than regular javascript page tags method, does it add to the implementation timeframe or will it reduce the implementation time frame?
                                  > - Also, how long would it take for implementation of a web analytics tool using the tag management solution? (As a reference, considering that the same implementation using a javascript page tag will take 3 months)
                                  >
                                  > Please help with these as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.
                                  >
                                  > Best Regards,
                                  > Harshil
                                  >
                                • Stephane Hamel
                                  Given the nature of the conversation that spurred from this thread I d rather answer privately to your questions. Feel free to reach me at
                                  Message 16 of 26 , May 7, 2013
                                    Given the nature of the conversation that spurred from this thread I'd rather answer privately to your questions. Feel free to reach me at shamel...cardinalpath.com, Twitter @SHamelCP or visit http://cardinalpath.com

                                    --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "harshil" <harshilshah_2004@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hi All,
                                    >
                                    > Thanks for the help on this.
                                    >
                                    > I have one more query on the same.
                                    >
                                    > During the deployment of the tag management solution and also of the tags on the web pages, what kind of role and what activities is required from the client? What kind of assistance/clarifications/understanding is required from the client side?
                                    >
                                    > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "harshil" <harshilshah_2004@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Hi All,
                                    > >
                                    > > I am engaging with some client for web analytics implementation along with tag management solution.
                                    > >
                                    > > Can you please help with the following queries for the same?
                                    > >
                                    > > - If we are using a tag management solution rather than regular javascript page tags method, does it add to the implementation timeframe or will it reduce the implementation time frame?
                                    > > - Also, how long would it take for implementation of a web analytics tool using the tag management solution? (As a reference, considering that the same implementation using a javascript page tag will take 3 months)
                                    > >
                                    > > Please help with these as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.
                                    > >
                                    > > Best Regards,
                                    > > Harshil
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Bill Bruno
                                    Hi Harshil, I m happy to discuss in further detail directly...but here are some points to think about. Hopefully this helps! Just like it is unfair to call
                                    Message 17 of 26 , May 7, 2013
                                      Hi Harshil,

                                      I'm happy to discuss in further detail directly...but here are some points to think about. Hopefully this helps!

                                      Just like it is unfair to call Tag Management "easy," it is also unfair to have high expectations that the client will be able to provide everything a firm like mine needs in order to complete a successful implementation (with or without TMS). A successful implementation, in our eyes, would be one that satisfies not only all of the business requirements (or as many as can be satisfied with the existing toolset), but one that also gets all of the right data to the right people at the right time. If there are gaps, it is our job to identify those gaps as well and provide recommendations on how to fill those gaps down the road. Perhaps even go so far as to help negotiate with vendors on behalf of the client to fill those gaps when ready.

                                      When moving forward with a deployment (with or without TMS), the following occurs (high-level):


                                      * Audit of existing implementation (if exists)

                                      o Client provides access to the necessary tools (Admin level)

                                      * Business requirements gathering meetings

                                      o Client identifies, with my team's help, who the right stakeholders are to get a representative understand of the business needs

                                      o These meetings are "hand holding" meetings where my team would walk through the process and ensure that any education gaps are explained to all involved

                                      * Solution Design

                                      o No client involvement here, except when it comes to sign off on the documentation

                                      * Tagging Implementation

                                      o With TMS: Only thing IT has to do is get the TMS code out there in the header, and then work with my team to Q/A all of the rules being created

                                      o Without TMS: Client IT team implements all of the tagging provided and my team plays the Q/A support role

                                      * UI Configuation

                                      o No client involvement

                                      * Walkthrough/Knowledge Transfer/Training

                                      o Client stakeholders are involved

                                      I hope that helps. I left out quite a bit from the process, but this should give you a general understand of client involvement.

                                      -Bill



                                      Bill Bruno
                                      CEO | Stratigent
                                      (o) 630.658.2215 (c) 773.203.6596 (f) 773.203.6596
                                      bill.bruno@...<mailto:bill.bruno@...>

                                      [stratigent banner]<http://www.stratigent.com/>

                                      Copyright Stratigent, LLC, all rights reserved. This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipients, and contain confidential and proprietary information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution of this email message or its attachments is prohibited.

                                      From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of harshil
                                      Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 4:17 AM
                                      To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Tag Management Solution



                                      Hi All,

                                      Thanks for the help on this.

                                      I have one more query on the same.

                                      During the deployment of the tag management solution and also of the tags on the web pages, what kind of role and what activities is required from the client? What kind of assistance/clarifications/understanding is required from the client side?

                                      --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>, "harshil" <harshilshah_2004@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi All,
                                      >
                                      > I am engaging with some client for web analytics implementation along with tag management solution.
                                      >
                                      > Can you please help with the following queries for the same?
                                      >
                                      > - If we are using a tag management solution rather than regular javascript page tags method, does it add to the implementation timeframe or will it reduce the implementation time frame?
                                      > - Also, how long would it take for implementation of a web analytics tool using the tag management solution? (As a reference, considering that the same implementation using a javascript page tag will take 3 months)
                                      >
                                      > Please help with these as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.
                                      >
                                      > Best Regards,
                                      > Harshil
                                      >



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • harshil
                                      Thank you for your responses. I have an additional query to this. If the website webpages have multiple tags for different services, can all these tags be
                                      Message 18 of 26 , May 12, 2013
                                        Thank you for your responses.

                                        I have an additional query to this.

                                        If the website webpages have multiple tags for different services, can all these tags be integrated into the Tag Management System (Universal tag)?

                                        In case there are outliers, how can the same be handled?

                                        Thanks in advance.

                                        Best Regards,
                                        Harshil

                                        --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "harshil" <harshilshah_2004@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hi All,
                                        >
                                        > I am engaging with some client for web analytics implementation along with tag management solution.
                                        >
                                        > Can you please help with the following queries for the same?
                                        >
                                        > - If we are using a tag management solution rather than regular javascript page tags method, does it add to the implementation timeframe or will it reduce the implementation time frame?
                                        > - Also, how long would it take for implementation of a web analytics tool using the tag management solution? (As a reference, considering that the same implementation using a javascript page tag will take 3 months)
                                        >
                                        > Please help with these as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.
                                        >
                                        > Best Regards,
                                        > Harshil
                                        >
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