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Google analytics - do Google staff have the right to see my data?

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  • jon bovard
    I had a debate recently about whether anyone at Google, be they in Google analytics or otherwise, has the permission/right/legal basis to look at any arbitrary
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 25, 2009
      I had a debate recently about whether anyone at Google, be they in
      Google analytics or otherwise, has the permission/right/legal basis to
      look at any arbitrary accounts reports?

      Someone told me it would be illegal, at least in Australia for someone
      at Google to be doing this for any reason.

      I do not necesarilly agree with this sentiment as its debatable where
      the service is provided in Australia or not.. plus a variety of other
      legal considerations.

      Can anyone enlighten me on this issue?

      My own personal feeling is that it is simply a fallacy to think that
      Google employees would not use Google analytics data implicitly or
      explicitly as part of their sales/marketing/business
      development/targetting/coprorate developmet strategies from a macro or
      micro level.

      My guess is Google would deny it no matter what.

      But then again I believe that Elvis is still alive.

      thanks
      Jon Bovard
    • Jeff Katz
      This may not enlighten you, but review the TOS http://www.google.com/analytics/tos.html specifically 6. INFORMATION RIGHTS AND PUBLICITY The TOS also refers to
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 25, 2009
        This may not enlighten you, but review the TOS
        http://www.google.com/analytics/tos.html specifically 6. INFORMATION RIGHTS
        AND PUBLICITY

        The TOS also refers to Google¹s Privacy Policy
        (http://www.google.com/privacypolicy.html). Under Information Security, is
        this:

        ³We restrict access to personal information to Google employees, contractors
        and agents who need to know that information in order to operate, develop or
        improve our services. These individuals are bound by confidentiality
        obligations and may be subject to discipline, including termination and
        criminal prosecution, if they fail to meet these obligations.²



        On 2/25/09 7:53 PM, "jon bovard" <jon.bovard@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        >
        > I had a debate recently about whether anyone at Google, be they in
        > Google analytics or otherwise, has the permission/right/legal basis to
        > look at any arbitrary accounts reports?
        >
        > Someone told me it would be illegal, at least in Australia for someone
        > at Google to be doing this for any reason.
        >
        > I do not necesarilly agree with this sentiment as its debatable where
        > the service is provided in Australia or not.. plus a variety of other
        > legal considerations.
        >
        > Can anyone enlighten me on this issue?
        >
        > My own personal feeling is that it is simply a fallacy to think that
        > Google employees would not use Google analytics data implicitly or
        > explicitly as part of their sales/marketing/business
        > development/targetting/coprorate developmet strategies from a macro or
        > micro level.
        >
        > My guess is Google would deny it no matter what.
        >
        > But then again I believe that Elvis is still alive.
        >
        > thanks
        > Jon Bovard
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >>>



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Steve McInerney
        Hey Jon, ... It Depends. Like most things. If access to such data would be deemed to be part of their job? Then there would be cause for yes, is ok. ie. QA
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 25, 2009
          Hey Jon,

          On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 2:53 PM, jon bovard <jon.bovard@...> wrote:
          > I had a debate recently about whether anyone at Google, be they in
          > Google analytics or otherwise, has the permission/right/legal basis to
          > look at any arbitrary accounts reports?
          >
          > Someone told me it would be illegal, at least in Australia for someone
          > at Google to be doing this for any reason.

          It Depends. Like most things.
          If access to such data would be deemed to be part of their job? Then
          there would be cause for yes, is ok.

          ie. QA purposes may have a need to verify that "your" data is correct
          through some method. Which would imply a certain level of limited
          access.
          Carte Blanche access should and would be frowned on heavily.
          But anyone who didn't have a real work reason - ie related to the
          actual collection of that data and the purpose for which it was
          collected - ie to provide WA services to clients, would probably be in
          breach of our privacy laws at least.

          fwiw, Australian privacy laws are based heavily on European ones - as
          I understand it.


          > I do not necesarilly agree with this sentiment as its debatable where
          > the service is provided in Australia or not.. plus a variety of other
          > legal considerations.

          Google has an Australian presence. I can imagine there could be a case
          there. IANAL obviously :-)
          The defamation case against a USA based company via Melbourne a few
          years back, springs to mind.

          The various "you will comply" demands placed by other countries on the
          likes of Google and Yahoo!. eg France, China and others.


          > Can anyone enlighten me on this issue?

          A lawyer. :-)
          Seriously, if you are concerned, that's the best advice.


          > My own personal feeling is that it is simply a fallacy to think that
          > Google employees would not use Google analytics data implicitly or
          > explicitly as part of their sales/marketing/business
          > development/targetting/coprorate developmet strategies from a macro or
          > micro level.

          IMHO? That would be ****unbelievably**** stupid of them to do so.

          Google is a big company these days. Folks will leave for all sorts of
          reasons. All it takes is someone who leaves with a grudge to 'whistle
          blow' and the entire edifice of trust that Google is so heavily built
          on could come crashing down. The risk/return payoff, imho, just is not
          there for them - something like that could go a long way to killing
          the entire company.
          Those Googlers I know personally or via acquaintance are, I would
          describe as, incredibly moral and ethical people. If Google really did
          something like this? They *would* leave. Many of those I'm thinking of
          left $job-1 for google on ethical grounds, so this isn't a
          hypothetical or hysterical argument. :-)

          Losing key staff while suffering externally thru a confidence/trust
          perception crisis? That'd be a pretty deadly combo for any company to
          survive.


          My feel is that providing "free" WA services to the general internet
          population does not have to be directly profitable for Google, for
          them to be able to profit in other related ways. I think the linking
          of Adwords to GA, and hence helping sites better use adwords makes
          that pretty obvious for one.


          > My guess is Google would deny it no matter what.

          I think they're caught between a rock and hard place on this one.
          The harder they deny, the more some folks will believe.


          > But then again I believe that Elvis is still alive.

          Love that line from the movie MiB: elvis isn't dead, he just went home. :-)


          my 2c.

          Cheers!
          - Steve
        • Gerry
          I am guessing Brian Clifton will come in on this debate. The way I understand it, and I could be wrong - they have the right, but they generally won t - I
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 26, 2009
            I am guessing Brian Clifton will come in on this debate.

            The way I understand it, and I could be wrong - they have the right,
            but they generally won't - I have access to loads of accounts
            (Google) at the moment, where people have left me in from previous
            jobs, (I am sure that part of the reason they have left me in as that
            they want me to be "on call" for a few more months yet, but that
            seems to have improved - but I am aware that if I use or abuse the
            data, it will ruin my rep, that said I do wish Google would give you
            the ability to delete yourself!!!

            I think if Google was found to be doing things wrong, the hit they
            would take on their reputation would be more damaging to them than
            anything and many people give their permission for data to be
            included in 'other places'.

            Gerry White



            --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, Steve McInerney
            <steve.mcinerney@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hey Jon,
            >
            > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 2:53 PM, jon bovard <jon.bovard@...> wrote:
            > > I had a debate recently about whether anyone at Google, be they in
            > > Google analytics or otherwise, has the permission/right/legal
            basis to
            > > look at any arbitrary accounts reports?
            > >
            > > Someone told me it would be illegal, at least in Australia for
            someone
            > > at Google to be doing this for any reason.
            >
            > It Depends. Like most things.
            > If access to such data would be deemed to be part of their job? Then
            > there would be cause for yes, is ok.
            >
            > ie. QA purposes may have a need to verify that "your" data is
            correct
            > through some method. Which would imply a certain level of limited
            > access.
            > Carte Blanche access should and would be frowned on heavily.
            > But anyone who didn't have a real work reason - ie related to the
            > actual collection of that data and the purpose for which it was
            > collected - ie to provide WA services to clients, would probably be
            in
            > breach of our privacy laws at least.
            >
            > fwiw, Australian privacy laws are based heavily on European ones -
            as
            > I understand it.
            >
            >
            > > I do not necesarilly agree with this sentiment as its debatable
            where
            > > the service is provided in Australia or not.. plus a variety of
            other
            > > legal considerations.
            >
            > Google has an Australian presence. I can imagine there could be a
            case
            > there. IANAL obviously :-)
            > The defamation case against a USA based company via Melbourne a few
            > years back, springs to mind.
            >
            > The various "you will comply" demands placed by other countries on
            the
            > likes of Google and Yahoo!. eg France, China and others.
            >
            >
            > > Can anyone enlighten me on this issue?
            >
            > A lawyer. :-)
            > Seriously, if you are concerned, that's the best advice.
            >
            >
            > > My own personal feeling is that it is simply a fallacy to think
            that
            > > Google employees would not use Google analytics data implicitly or
            > > explicitly as part of their sales/marketing/business
            > > development/targetting/coprorate developmet strategies from a
            macro or
            > > micro level.
            >
            > IMHO? That would be ****unbelievably**** stupid of them to do so.
            >
            > Google is a big company these days. Folks will leave for all sorts
            of
            > reasons. All it takes is someone who leaves with a grudge
            to 'whistle
            > blow' and the entire edifice of trust that Google is so heavily
            built
            > on could come crashing down. The risk/return payoff, imho, just is
            not
            > there for them - something like that could go a long way to killing
            > the entire company.
            > Those Googlers I know personally or via acquaintance are, I would
            > describe as, incredibly moral and ethical people. If Google really
            did
            > something like this? They *would* leave. Many of those I'm thinking
            of
            > left $job-1 for google on ethical grounds, so this isn't a
            > hypothetical or hysterical argument. :-)
            >
            > Losing key staff while suffering externally thru a confidence/trust
            > perception crisis? That'd be a pretty deadly combo for any company
            to
            > survive.
            >
            >
            > My feel is that providing "free" WA services to the general internet
            > population does not have to be directly profitable for Google, for
            > them to be able to profit in other related ways. I think the linking
            > of Adwords to GA, and hence helping sites better use adwords makes
            > that pretty obvious for one.
            >
            >
            > > My guess is Google would deny it no matter what.
            >
            > I think they're caught between a rock and hard place on this one.
            > The harder they deny, the more some folks will believe.
            >
            >
            > > But then again I believe that Elvis is still alive.
            >
            > Love that line from the movie MiB: elvis isn't dead, he just went
            home. :-)
            >
            >
            > my 2c.
            >
            > Cheers!
            > - Steve
            >
          • ehansen9
            You might be able to find your answer here: GA FAQ I have searched through it, and
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 26, 2009
              You might be able to find your answer here: GA FAQ
              <http://www.google.com/support/analytics/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=8751\
              5>

              I have searched through it, and it appears that Google does access data
              on a macro level, but they do not fully disclose the nature of what they
              are using the data for. I would not be surprised if they do use it for
              marketing/business/other purposes for internal gain. I mean, I would if
              I were them! :)


              --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "jon bovard" <jon.bovard@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I had a debate recently about whether anyone at Google, be they in
              > Google analytics or otherwise, has the permission/right/legal basis to
              > look at any arbitrary accounts reports?
              >
              > Someone told me it would be illegal, at least in Australia for someone
              > at Google to be doing this for any reason.
              >
              > I do not necesarilly agree with this sentiment as its debatable where
              > the service is provided in Australia or not.. plus a variety of other
              > legal considerations.
              >
              > Can anyone enlighten me on this issue?
              >
              > My own personal feeling is that it is simply a fallacy to think that
              > Google employees would not use Google analytics data implicitly or
              > explicitly as part of their sales/marketing/business
              > development/targetting/coprorate developmet strategies from a macro or
              > micro level.
              >
              > My guess is Google would deny it no matter what.
              >
              > But then again I believe that Elvis is still alive.
              >
              > thanks
              > Jon Bovard
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Benjamin Rosenthal
              Whenever I ve dealt with individuals at Google who needed to look at my GA account data I ve always been asked to send an email giving them specific permission
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 27, 2009
                Whenever I've dealt with individuals at Google who needed to look at my GA account data
                I've always been asked to send an email giving them specific permission to do so. There
                was no "click this link" to allow Jimmy J. Google to view your GA account process.

                This leads me to believe that many people at Google *could* view the account data if they
                wanted to. However, it seems that there are policies (if not systems) in place which restrict
                individual employees from doing so (for fear of losing their free back rubs, cookies, aeron
                chairs, etc).

                -B

                --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "jon bovard" <jon.bovard@...> wrote:
                >
                > I had a debate recently about whether anyone at Google, be they in
                > Google analytics or otherwise, has the permission/right/legal basis to
                > look at any arbitrary accounts reports?
                >
                > Someone told me it would be illegal, at least in Australia for someone
                > at Google to be doing this for any reason.
                >
                > I do not necesarilly agree with this sentiment as its debatable where
                > the service is provided in Australia or not.. plus a variety of other
                > legal considerations.
                >
                > Can anyone enlighten me on this issue?
                >
                > My own personal feeling is that it is simply a fallacy to think that
                > Google employees would not use Google analytics data implicitly or
                > explicitly as part of their sales/marketing/business
                > development/targetting/coprorate developmet strategies from a macro or
                > micro level.
                >
                > My guess is Google would deny it no matter what.
                >
                > But then again I believe that Elvis is still alive.
                >
                > thanks
                > Jon Bovard
                >
              • Brian Clifton
                Thanks for the heads up Gerry - my name gets flagged up from the sea of my inbox... Have a look at this post by me last year - inspired by Jim Sterne s
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 27, 2009
                  Thanks for the heads up Gerry - my name gets flagged up from the sea
                  of my inbox...

                  Have a look at this post by me last year - inspired by Jim Sterne's
                  comments on a panel we were both on at SES London:
                  http://www.advanced-web-metrics.com/blog/2008/03/17/google-is-like-a-bank/?utm_id=1

                  Best regards, Brian



                  --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry" <dergal@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > I am guessing Brian Clifton will come in on this debate.
                  >
                  > The way I understand it, and I could be wrong - they have the right,
                  > but they generally won't - I have access to loads of accounts
                  > (Google) at the moment, where people have left me in from previous
                  > jobs, (I am sure that part of the reason they have left me in as that
                  > they want me to be "on call" for a few more months yet, but that
                  > seems to have improved - but I am aware that if I use or abuse the
                  > data, it will ruin my rep, that said I do wish Google would give you
                  > the ability to delete yourself!!!
                  >
                  > I think if Google was found to be doing things wrong, the hit they
                  > would take on their reputation would be more damaging to them than
                  > anything and many people give their permission for data to be
                  > included in 'other places'.
                  >
                  > Gerry White
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, Steve McInerney
                  > <steve.mcinerney@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hey Jon,
                  > >
                  > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 2:53 PM, jon bovard <jon.bovard@> wrote:
                  > > > I had a debate recently about whether anyone at Google, be they in
                  > > > Google analytics or otherwise, has the permission/right/legal
                  > basis to
                  > > > look at any arbitrary accounts reports?
                  > > >
                  > > > Someone told me it would be illegal, at least in Australia for
                  > someone
                  > > > at Google to be doing this for any reason.
                  > >
                  > > It Depends. Like most things.
                  > > If access to such data would be deemed to be part of their job? Then
                  > > there would be cause for yes, is ok.
                  > >
                  > > ie. QA purposes may have a need to verify that "your" data is
                  > correct
                  > > through some method. Which would imply a certain level of limited
                  > > access.
                  > > Carte Blanche access should and would be frowned on heavily.
                  > > But anyone who didn't have a real work reason - ie related to the
                  > > actual collection of that data and the purpose for which it was
                  > > collected - ie to provide WA services to clients, would probably be
                  > in
                  > > breach of our privacy laws at least.
                  > >
                  > > fwiw, Australian privacy laws are based heavily on European ones -
                  > as
                  > > I understand it.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > I do not necesarilly agree with this sentiment as its debatable
                  > where
                  > > > the service is provided in Australia or not.. plus a variety of
                  > other
                  > > > legal considerations.
                  > >
                  > > Google has an Australian presence. I can imagine there could be a
                  > case
                  > > there. IANAL obviously :-)
                  > > The defamation case against a USA based company via Melbourne a few
                  > > years back, springs to mind.
                  > >
                  > > The various "you will comply" demands placed by other countries on
                  > the
                  > > likes of Google and Yahoo!. eg France, China and others.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > Can anyone enlighten me on this issue?
                  > >
                  > > A lawyer. :-)
                  > > Seriously, if you are concerned, that's the best advice.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > My own personal feeling is that it is simply a fallacy to think
                  > that
                  > > > Google employees would not use Google analytics data implicitly or
                  > > > explicitly as part of their sales/marketing/business
                  > > > development/targetting/coprorate developmet strategies from a
                  > macro or
                  > > > micro level.
                  > >
                  > > IMHO? That would be ****unbelievably**** stupid of them to do so.
                  > >
                  > > Google is a big company these days. Folks will leave for all sorts
                  > of
                  > > reasons. All it takes is someone who leaves with a grudge
                  > to 'whistle
                  > > blow' and the entire edifice of trust that Google is so heavily
                  > built
                  > > on could come crashing down. The risk/return payoff, imho, just is
                  > not
                  > > there for them - something like that could go a long way to killing
                  > > the entire company.
                  > > Those Googlers I know personally or via acquaintance are, I would
                  > > describe as, incredibly moral and ethical people. If Google really
                  > did
                  > > something like this? They *would* leave. Many of those I'm thinking
                  > of
                  > > left $job-1 for google on ethical grounds, so this isn't a
                  > > hypothetical or hysterical argument. :-)
                  > >
                  > > Losing key staff while suffering externally thru a confidence/trust
                  > > perception crisis? That'd be a pretty deadly combo for any company
                  > to
                  > > survive.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > My feel is that providing "free" WA services to the general internet
                  > > population does not have to be directly profitable for Google, for
                  > > them to be able to profit in other related ways. I think the linking
                  > > of Adwords to GA, and hence helping sites better use adwords makes
                  > > that pretty obvious for one.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > My guess is Google would deny it no matter what.
                  > >
                  > > I think they're caught between a rock and hard place on this one.
                  > > The harder they deny, the more some folks will believe.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > > But then again I believe that Elvis is still alive.
                  > >
                  > > Love that line from the movie MiB: elvis isn't dead, he just went
                  > home. :-)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > my 2c.
                  > >
                  > > Cheers!
                  > > - Steve
                  > >
                  >
                • Jim Sterne
                  I love it when an intelligent person takes one of my off-the-cuff remarks and writes it up in an intelligent way. Thanks Brian. Jim Sterne
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 27, 2009
                    I love it when an intelligent person takes one of my off-the-cuff remarks
                    and writes it up in an intelligent way. Thanks Brian.

                    Jim Sterne <jsterne@...> +1-805-965-3184
                    Target Marketing of Santa Barbara www.targeting.com
                    eMetrics Marketing Optimization Summit www.emetrics.org
                    Web Analytics Association www.WebAnalyticsAssociation.org
                    ---------------------------



                    From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of Brian Clifton
                    Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 7:22 AM
                    To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Google analytics - do Google staff have the
                    right to see my data?



                    Thanks for the heads up Gerry - my name gets flagged up from the sea
                    of my inbox...

                    Have a look at this post by me last year - inspired by Jim Sterne's
                    comments on a panel we were both on at SES London:
                    http://www.advanced-web-metrics.com/blog/2008/03/17/google-is-like-a-bank/?u
                    tm_id=1

                    Best regards, Brian

                    --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>
                    , "Gerry" <dergal@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > I am guessing Brian Clifton will come in on this debate.
                    >
                    > The way I understand it, and I could be wrong - they have the right,
                    > but they generally won't - I have access to loads of accounts
                    > (Google) at the moment, where people have left me in from previous
                    > jobs, (I am sure that part of the reason they have left me in as that
                    > they want me to be "on call" for a few more months yet, but that
                    > seems to have improved - but I am aware that if I use or abuse the
                    > data, it will ruin my rep, that said I do wish Google would give you
                    > the ability to delete yourself!!!
                    >
                    > I think if Google was found to be doing things wrong, the hit they
                    > would take on their reputation would be more damaging to them than
                    > anything and many people give their permission for data to be
                    > included in 'other places'.
                    >
                    > Gerry White
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                    <mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com> , Steve McInerney
                    > <steve.mcinerney@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hey Jon,
                    > >
                    > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 2:53 PM, jon bovard <jon.bovard@> wrote:
                    > > > I had a debate recently about whether anyone at Google, be they in
                    > > > Google analytics or otherwise, has the permission/right/legal
                    > basis to
                    > > > look at any arbitrary accounts reports?
                    > > >
                    > > > Someone told me it would be illegal, at least in Australia for
                    > someone
                    > > > at Google to be doing this for any reason.
                    > >
                    > > It Depends. Like most things.
                    > > If access to such data would be deemed to be part of their job? Then
                    > > there would be cause for yes, is ok.
                    > >
                    > > ie. QA purposes may have a need to verify that "your" data is
                    > correct
                    > > through some method. Which would imply a certain level of limited
                    > > access.
                    > > Carte Blanche access should and would be frowned on heavily.
                    > > But anyone who didn't have a real work reason - ie related to the
                    > > actual collection of that data and the purpose for which it was
                    > > collected - ie to provide WA services to clients, would probably be
                    > in
                    > > breach of our privacy laws at least.
                    > >
                    > > fwiw, Australian privacy laws are based heavily on European ones -
                    > as
                    > > I understand it.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > I do not necesarilly agree with this sentiment as its debatable
                    > where
                    > > > the service is provided in Australia or not.. plus a variety of
                    > other
                    > > > legal considerations.
                    > >
                    > > Google has an Australian presence. I can imagine there could be a
                    > case
                    > > there. IANAL obviously :-)
                    > > The defamation case against a USA based company via Melbourne a few
                    > > years back, springs to mind.
                    > >
                    > > The various "you will comply" demands placed by other countries on
                    > the
                    > > likes of Google and Yahoo!. eg France, China and others.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > Can anyone enlighten me on this issue?
                    > >
                    > > A lawyer. :-)
                    > > Seriously, if you are concerned, that's the best advice.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > My own personal feeling is that it is simply a fallacy to think
                    > that
                    > > > Google employees would not use Google analytics data implicitly or
                    > > > explicitly as part of their sales/marketing/business
                    > > > development/targetting/coprorate developmet strategies from a
                    > macro or
                    > > > micro level.
                    > >
                    > > IMHO? That would be ****unbelievably**** stupid of them to do so.
                    > >
                    > > Google is a big company these days. Folks will leave for all sorts
                    > of
                    > > reasons. All it takes is someone who leaves with a grudge
                    > to 'whistle
                    > > blow' and the entire edifice of trust that Google is so heavily
                    > built
                    > > on could come crashing down. The risk/return payoff, imho, just is
                    > not
                    > > there for them - something like that could go a long way to killing
                    > > the entire company.
                    > > Those Googlers I know personally or via acquaintance are, I would
                    > > describe as, incredibly moral and ethical people. If Google really
                    > did
                    > > something like this? They *would* leave. Many of those I'm thinking
                    > of
                    > > left $job-1 for google on ethical grounds, so this isn't a
                    > > hypothetical or hysterical argument. :-)
                    > >
                    > > Losing key staff while suffering externally thru a confidence/trust
                    > > perception crisis? That'd be a pretty deadly combo for any company
                    > to
                    > > survive.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > My feel is that providing "free" WA services to the general internet
                    > > population does not have to be directly profitable for Google, for
                    > > them to be able to profit in other related ways. I think the linking
                    > > of Adwords to GA, and hence helping sites better use adwords makes
                    > > that pretty obvious for one.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > My guess is Google would deny it no matter what.
                    > >
                    > > I think they're caught between a rock and hard place on this one.
                    > > The harder they deny, the more some folks will believe.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > But then again I believe that Elvis is still alive.
                    > >
                    > > Love that line from the movie MiB: elvis isn't dead, he just went
                    > home. :-)
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > my 2c.
                    > >
                    > > Cheers!
                    > > - Steve
                    > >
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Matt
                    If data is collected by search engines, it s anonymous data that is used to benefit the advertiser. For example, if you use Yahoo s Full Analytics or
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 27, 2009
                      If data is collected by search engines, it's anonymous data that is
                      used to benefit the advertiser.

                      For example, if you use Yahoo's Full Analytics or Conversion Only
                      tracking tools, the conversion data that is collected gets factored
                      in for use in Yahoo's pricing discount programs. The discount
                      pricing service assesses the quality of Yahoo's publisher traffic
                      when an advertiser is charged for a click from that source.
                      Depending on the quality of the traffic from the partner or
                      publisher where the click came from, the cost of the advertiser's
                      click can be automatically discounted by a certain percentage.

                      http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/ysm/sps/articles/traffic_quality2.html

                      Now I don't know about you, but services such as these make me want
                      to work with the Google's and Yahoo's even more. As long as the
                      search engines use anonymous data to develop services that are in
                      the best interest of the advertiser, then I'm all for it. It's a
                      win/win situation.

                      Matt

                      --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Sterne" <jsterne@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > I love it when an intelligent person takes one of my off-the-cuff
                      remarks
                      > and writes it up in an intelligent way. Thanks Brian.
                      >
                      > Jim Sterne <jsterne@...> +1-805-965-3184
                      > Target Marketing of Santa Barbara
                      www.targeting.com
                      > eMetrics Marketing Optimization Summit www.emetrics.org
                      > Web Analytics Association www.WebAnalyticsAssociation.org
                      > ---------------------------
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On
                      > Behalf Of Brian Clifton
                      > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 7:22 AM
                      > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Google analytics - do Google staff
                      have the
                      > right to see my data?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks for the heads up Gerry - my name gets flagged up from the
                      sea
                      > of my inbox...
                      >
                      > Have a look at this post by me last year - inspired by Jim Sterne's
                      > comments on a panel we were both on at SES London:
                      > http://www.advanced-web-metrics.com/blog/2008/03/17/google-is-like-
                      a-bank/?u
                      > tm_id=1
                      >
                      > Best regards, Brian
                      >
                      > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:webanalytics%
                      40yahoogroups.com>
                      > , "Gerry" <dergal@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I am guessing Brian Clifton will come in on this debate.
                      > >
                      > > The way I understand it, and I could be wrong - they have the
                      right,
                      > > but they generally won't - I have access to loads of accounts
                      > > (Google) at the moment, where people have left me in from
                      previous
                      > > jobs, (I am sure that part of the reason they have left me in as
                      that
                      > > they want me to be "on call" for a few more months yet, but that
                      > > seems to have improved - but I am aware that if I use or abuse
                      the
                      > > data, it will ruin my rep, that said I do wish Google would give
                      you
                      > > the ability to delete yourself!!!
                      > >
                      > > I think if Google was found to be doing things wrong, the hit
                      they
                      > > would take on their reputation would be more damaging to them
                      than
                      > > anything and many people give their permission for data to be
                      > > included in 'other places'.
                      > >
                      > > Gerry White
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com> , Steve McInerney
                      > > <steve.mcinerney@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hey Jon,
                      > > >
                      > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 2:53 PM, jon bovard <jon.bovard@>
                      wrote:
                      > > > > I had a debate recently about whether anyone at Google, be
                      they in
                      > > > > Google analytics or otherwise, has the
                      permission/right/legal
                      > > basis to
                      > > > > look at any arbitrary accounts reports?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Someone told me it would be illegal, at least in Australia
                      for
                      > > someone
                      > > > > at Google to be doing this for any reason.
                      > > >
                      > > > It Depends. Like most things.
                      > > > If access to such data would be deemed to be part of their
                      job? Then
                      > > > there would be cause for yes, is ok.
                      > > >
                      > > > ie. QA purposes may have a need to verify that "your" data is
                      > > correct
                      > > > through some method. Which would imply a certain level of
                      limited
                      > > > access.
                      > > > Carte Blanche access should and would be frowned on heavily.
                      > > > But anyone who didn't have a real work reason - ie related to
                      the
                      > > > actual collection of that data and the purpose for which it was
                      > > > collected - ie to provide WA services to clients, would
                      probably be
                      > > in
                      > > > breach of our privacy laws at least.
                      > > >
                      > > > fwiw, Australian privacy laws are based heavily on European
                      ones -
                      > > as
                      > > > I understand it.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > > I do not necesarilly agree with this sentiment as its
                      debatable
                      > > where
                      > > > > the service is provided in Australia or not.. plus a variety
                      of
                      > > other
                      > > > > legal considerations.
                      > > >
                      > > > Google has an Australian presence. I can imagine there could
                      be a
                      > > case
                      > > > there. IANAL obviously :-)
                      > > > The defamation case against a USA based company via Melbourne
                      a few
                      > > > years back, springs to mind.
                      > > >
                      > > > The various "you will comply" demands placed by other
                      countries on
                      > > the
                      > > > likes of Google and Yahoo!. eg France, China and others.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > > Can anyone enlighten me on this issue?
                      > > >
                      > > > A lawyer. :-)
                      > > > Seriously, if you are concerned, that's the best advice.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > > My own personal feeling is that it is simply a fallacy to
                      think
                      > > that
                      > > > > Google employees would not use Google analytics data
                      implicitly or
                      > > > > explicitly as part of their sales/marketing/business
                      > > > > development/targetting/coprorate developmet strategies from
                      a
                      > > macro or
                      > > > > micro level.
                      > > >
                      > > > IMHO? That would be ****unbelievably**** stupid of them to do
                      so.
                      > > >
                      > > > Google is a big company these days. Folks will leave for all
                      sorts
                      > > of
                      > > > reasons. All it takes is someone who leaves with a grudge
                      > > to 'whistle
                      > > > blow' and the entire edifice of trust that Google is so
                      heavily
                      > > built
                      > > > on could come crashing down. The risk/return payoff, imho,
                      just is
                      > > not
                      > > > there for them - something like that could go a long way to
                      killing
                      > > > the entire company.
                      > > > Those Googlers I know personally or via acquaintance are, I
                      would
                      > > > describe as, incredibly moral and ethical people. If Google
                      really
                      > > did
                      > > > something like this? They *would* leave. Many of those I'm
                      thinking
                      > > of
                      > > > left $job-1 for google on ethical grounds, so this isn't a
                      > > > hypothetical or hysterical argument. :-)
                      > > >
                      > > > Losing key staff while suffering externally thru a
                      confidence/trust
                      > > > perception crisis? That'd be a pretty deadly combo for any
                      company
                      > > to
                      > > > survive.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > My feel is that providing "free" WA services to the general
                      internet
                      > > > population does not have to be directly profitable for Google,
                      for
                      > > > them to be able to profit in other related ways. I think the
                      linking
                      > > > of Adwords to GA, and hence helping sites better use adwords
                      makes
                      > > > that pretty obvious for one.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > > My guess is Google would deny it no matter what.
                      > > >
                      > > > I think they're caught between a rock and hard place on this
                      one.
                      > > > The harder they deny, the more some folks will believe.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > > But then again I believe that Elvis is still alive.
                      > > >
                      > > > Love that line from the movie MiB: elvis isn't dead, he just
                      went
                      > > home. :-)
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > my 2c.
                      > > >
                      > > > Cheers!
                      > > > - Steve
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • sebastian.wenzel
                      Maybe it s just me, but I think that someone having access to 60% of all analytics data in the US (= GA market share) is much more worrying than someone having
                      Message 10 of 11 , Feb 28, 2009
                        Maybe it's just me, but I think that someone having access to 60% of
                        all analytics data in the US (= GA market share) is much more worrying
                        than someone having access to a bunch of (empty) bank accounts. :)

                        Sebastian
                        Webanalyticsbok.com


                        --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mlillig2002@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > If data is collected by search engines, it's anonymous data that is
                        > used to benefit the advertiser.
                        >
                        > For example, if you use Yahoo's Full Analytics or Conversion Only
                        > tracking tools, the conversion data that is collected gets factored
                        > in for use in Yahoo's pricing discount programs. The discount
                        > pricing service assesses the quality of Yahoo's publisher traffic
                        > when an advertiser is charged for a click from that source.
                        > Depending on the quality of the traffic from the partner or
                        > publisher where the click came from, the cost of the advertiser's
                        > click can be automatically discounted by a certain percentage.
                        >
                        > http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/ysm/sps/articles/traffic_quality2.html
                        >
                        > Now I don't know about you, but services such as these make me want
                        > to work with the Google's and Yahoo's even more. As long as the
                        > search engines use anonymous data to develop services that are in
                        > the best interest of the advertiser, then I'm all for it. It's a
                        > win/win situation.
                        >
                        > Matt
                        >
                        > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Sterne" <jsterne@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I love it when an intelligent person takes one of my off-the-cuff
                        > remarks
                        > > and writes it up in an intelligent way. Thanks Brian.
                        > >
                        > > Jim Sterne <jsterne@> +1-805-965-3184
                        > > Target Marketing of Santa Barbara
                        > www.targeting.com
                        > > eMetrics Marketing Optimization Summit www.emetrics.org
                        > > Web Analytics Association www.WebAnalyticsAssociation.org
                        > > ---------------------------
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On
                        > > Behalf Of Brian Clifton
                        > > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 7:22 AM
                        > > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Google analytics - do Google staff
                        > have the
                        > > right to see my data?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for the heads up Gerry - my name gets flagged up from the
                        > sea
                        > > of my inbox...
                        > >
                        > > Have a look at this post by me last year - inspired by Jim Sterne's
                        > > comments on a panel we were both on at SES London:
                        > > http://www.advanced-web-metrics.com/blog/2008/03/17/google-is-like-
                        > a-bank/?u
                        > > tm_id=1
                        > >
                        > > Best regards, Brian
                        > >
                        > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com <mailto:webanalytics%
                        > 40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > , "Gerry" <dergal@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > I am guessing Brian Clifton will come in on this debate.
                        > > >
                        > > > The way I understand it, and I could be wrong - they have the
                        > right,
                        > > > but they generally won't - I have access to loads of accounts
                        > > > (Google) at the moment, where people have left me in from
                        > previous
                        > > > jobs, (I am sure that part of the reason they have left me in as
                        > that
                        > > > they want me to be "on call" for a few more months yet, but that
                        > > > seems to have improved - but I am aware that if I use or abuse
                        > the
                        > > > data, it will ruin my rep, that said I do wish Google would give
                        > you
                        > > > the ability to delete yourself!!!
                        > > >
                        > > > I think if Google was found to be doing things wrong, the hit
                        > they
                        > > > would take on their reputation would be more damaging to them
                        > than
                        > > > anything and many people give their permission for data to be
                        > > > included in 'other places'.
                        > > >
                        > > > Gerry White
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                        > > <mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com> , Steve McInerney
                        > > > <steve.mcinerney@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Hey Jon,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 2:53 PM, jon bovard <jon.bovard@>
                        > wrote:
                        > > > > > I had a debate recently about whether anyone at Google, be
                        > they in
                        > > > > > Google analytics or otherwise, has the
                        > permission/right/legal
                        > > > basis to
                        > > > > > look at any arbitrary accounts reports?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Someone told me it would be illegal, at least in Australia
                        > for
                        > > > someone
                        > > > > > at Google to be doing this for any reason.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > It Depends. Like most things.
                        > > > > If access to such data would be deemed to be part of their
                        > job? Then
                        > > > > there would be cause for yes, is ok.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ie. QA purposes may have a need to verify that "your" data is
                        > > > correct
                        > > > > through some method. Which would imply a certain level of
                        > limited
                        > > > > access.
                        > > > > Carte Blanche access should and would be frowned on heavily.
                        > > > > But anyone who didn't have a real work reason - ie related to
                        > the
                        > > > > actual collection of that data and the purpose for which it was
                        > > > > collected - ie to provide WA services to clients, would
                        > probably be
                        > > > in
                        > > > > breach of our privacy laws at least.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > fwiw, Australian privacy laws are based heavily on European
                        > ones -
                        > > > as
                        > > > > I understand it.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > > I do not necesarilly agree with this sentiment as its
                        > debatable
                        > > > where
                        > > > > > the service is provided in Australia or not.. plus a variety
                        > of
                        > > > other
                        > > > > > legal considerations.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Google has an Australian presence. I can imagine there could
                        > be a
                        > > > case
                        > > > > there. IANAL obviously :-)
                        > > > > The defamation case against a USA based company via Melbourne
                        > a few
                        > > > > years back, springs to mind.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > The various "you will comply" demands placed by other
                        > countries on
                        > > > the
                        > > > > likes of Google and Yahoo!. eg France, China and others.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > > Can anyone enlighten me on this issue?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > A lawyer. :-)
                        > > > > Seriously, if you are concerned, that's the best advice.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > > My own personal feeling is that it is simply a fallacy to
                        > think
                        > > > that
                        > > > > > Google employees would not use Google analytics data
                        > implicitly or
                        > > > > > explicitly as part of their sales/marketing/business
                        > > > > > development/targetting/coprorate developmet strategies from
                        > a
                        > > > macro or
                        > > > > > micro level.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > IMHO? That would be ****unbelievably**** stupid of them to do
                        > so.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Google is a big company these days. Folks will leave for all
                        > sorts
                        > > > of
                        > > > > reasons. All it takes is someone who leaves with a grudge
                        > > > to 'whistle
                        > > > > blow' and the entire edifice of trust that Google is so
                        > heavily
                        > > > built
                        > > > > on could come crashing down. The risk/return payoff, imho,
                        > just is
                        > > > not
                        > > > > there for them - something like that could go a long way to
                        > killing
                        > > > > the entire company.
                        > > > > Those Googlers I know personally or via acquaintance are, I
                        > would
                        > > > > describe as, incredibly moral and ethical people. If Google
                        > really
                        > > > did
                        > > > > something like this? They *would* leave. Many of those I'm
                        > thinking
                        > > > of
                        > > > > left $job-1 for google on ethical grounds, so this isn't a
                        > > > > hypothetical or hysterical argument. :-)
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Losing key staff while suffering externally thru a
                        > confidence/trust
                        > > > > perception crisis? That'd be a pretty deadly combo for any
                        > company
                        > > > to
                        > > > > survive.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > My feel is that providing "free" WA services to the general
                        > internet
                        > > > > population does not have to be directly profitable for Google,
                        > for
                        > > > > them to be able to profit in other related ways. I think the
                        > linking
                        > > > > of Adwords to GA, and hence helping sites better use adwords
                        > makes
                        > > > > that pretty obvious for one.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > > My guess is Google would deny it no matter what.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I think they're caught between a rock and hard place on this
                        > one.
                        > > > > The harder they deny, the more some folks will believe.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > > But then again I believe that Elvis is still alive.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Love that line from the movie MiB: elvis isn't dead, he just
                        > went
                        > > > home. :-)
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > my 2c.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Cheers!
                        > > > > - Steve
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                      • philkemelor
                        I ve been looking into ownership and vendor usage of data and have written a few recent blogs that you might find interesting at wam.typepad.com
                        Message 11 of 11 , Mar 1, 2009
                          I've been looking into ownership and vendor usage of data and have
                          written a few recent blogs that you might find interesting at
                          wam.typepad.com <http://wam.typepad.com>

                          Phil Kemelor
                          VP, Strategic Analytics, Semphonic
                          Lead Analyst, CMS Watch Web Analytics Report


                          --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "jon bovard" <jon.bovard@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > I had a debate recently about whether anyone at Google, be they in
                          > Google analytics or otherwise, has the permission/right/legal basis to
                          > look at any arbitrary accounts reports?
                          >
                          > Someone told me it would be illegal, at least in Australia for someone
                          > at Google to be doing this for any reason.
                          >
                          > I do not necesarilly agree with this sentiment as its debatable where
                          > the service is provided in Australia or not.. plus a variety of other
                          > legal considerations.
                          >
                          > Can anyone enlighten me on this issue?
                          >
                          > My own personal feeling is that it is simply a fallacy to think that
                          > Google employees would not use Google analytics data implicitly or
                          > explicitly as part of their sales/marketing/business
                          > development/targetting/coprorate developmet strategies from a macro or
                          > micro level.
                          >
                          > My guess is Google would deny it no matter what.
                          >
                          > But then again I believe that Elvis is still alive.
                          >
                          > thanks
                          > Jon Bovard
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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