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Re: Why do we still need Omniture?

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  • mfeiner17
    Stephane, No doubt Omniture has much more to offer than GA. Your list below is spot on. However, with this richness of features/capability often comes
    Message 1 of 34 , Nov 1, 2008
      Stephane,


      No doubt Omniture has much more to offer than GA. Your list below is
      spot on. However, with this richness of features/capability often
      comes complexity - it is not an easy tool to use unless you are a
      dedicated web analyst.

      Most my clients are marketers. I often get the "how do I find..."
      and "what does it mean..." questions from those using Omniture. Far
      more than with other WA solutions.

      It is all about segmentation isn't it? Well, I think we should apply
      the same rule to the tools themselves.

      GA is a great entry level tool ideal for online marketers (+ the
      technical savvy that can squeeze a lot more out of it). Omniture is a
      top level enterprise tool for data driven organisations.

      Interestingly, I think that certain companies could actually benefit
      from downgrading to a tool like GA. This is especially true when no
      dedicated web analytics resource is available.

      They might end up unable to answer the more complex questions,
      however, they are less likely to suffer from analysis paralysis or
      tool complexity paralysis (which leads to non usage). Less data but
      possibly more insight because they will be using the data available.

      I can hear the echoes of the WA is easy/hard argument in the
      background.

      Hopefully, the likes of GA and Yahoo WA will push the envelope
      forcing the paid solutions to keep inproving sooner rather than later

      Think motion charts - I perdict this feature will change WA
      visualisation. Vendors will be pressed to create motional charts for
      the likes of trend analysis.

      Michael Feiner
      AEP Convert
      www.aepconvert.com


      --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Stephane Hamel" <shamel67@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Ho boy, ho boy!
      > this is going to be a very interesting thread!
      >
      > Real time... ok, nice, but very few companies actually need it!
      >
      > Couple of things, top of my head, but certainly not complete:
      > - custom metrics: way better than the single user variable offered
      by
      > GA (and you can apply some rules on them, like duration, data type,
      etc.)
      > - calculated metrics: build new composite metrics
      > - export AND import API (GA API only allow you to download, not
      upload
      > your data)
      > - advanced dashboarding: create multiple dashboards, with advanced
      > widgets, share them, etc.
      > - collaboration features: annotations, forums, share bookmarks,
      share
      > calculated metrics, dashboards, etc.
      > - integration with dozens of partners through Genesis, including
      > emails services, surveys, behavioral targeting, MVT, call centers
      > data, name it...
      > - Excel plugin (get real... who doesn't use Excel?)
      > - suite integration with Survey, Test & Target, internal Search,
      etc.
      > - Discover is a very powerful BI & visualization tool
      > - very powerful campaign management tool called SearchCenter
      > - Datawarehouse feature (raw data queries, also import your own
      data)
      > - ASI filters (apply logic before data is being processed)
      > - more powerful conversion funnels/pathing rules
      > - outstanding documentation, training material, knowledge base
      > - ok, some people complain about support, but it is generally very
      > good (and for that matter, with GA you have to rely on independent
      > consulting agencies... you could do the same for Omniture if you
      like!)
      >
      > As much as I love Google Analytics, and with all due respect for
      > Avinash and the whole team at Google, I think GA is a good tool, but
      > those who can't understand the huge gap between it and a high end
      > solution such as SiteCatalyst are missing a big piece of the puzzle.
      > It's amazing the number of "pros" of web analytics who have emerged
      in
      > the last 6 to 12 months because they suddenly discovered web
      analytics
      > and have installed GA on their own site. And almost reminds me of
      the
      > early days of the web, when anyone who could say what HTML stands
      for
      > was a genius...
      >
      > However, I must admit it was already difficult to convince managers
      > that "free" shouldn't be the 1st criteria when choosing a solution.
      I
      > guess it will be even harder now!
      >
      > I have no commercial interests either in Google Analytics or
      Omniture
      > SiteCatalyst, nor Coremetrics, Webtrends, Yahoo! Analytics, AT
      > Internet Xiti, and about 100 other tools... When consulting, I speak
      > fluent "web analytics" regardless of the tool, and heck! I have even
      > implemented and used most of them! :)
      >
      > As a web analytics professional interested in education, market
      > research and R&D with WASP, I take great care of being independent
      and
      > unbiased.
      >
      > I look forward to others comments!
      >
      > Stéphane Hamel
      > http://immeria.net
      >
      >
      > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Holstein" <paul@> wrote:
      > >
      > > OK, this question was bound to come up. Given Eric Peterson's
      recent
      > > post at Webanalyticsdemystified.com, it seams to me that Omniture
      had
      > > better get ready to answer this question with conviction.
      > >
      > > I'll get things started by saying that Omniture provides near
      real time
      > > metrics. GA doesn't.
      > >
      > > So what do you think? Let's hear it.
      > >
      >
    • Guy Evans
      Of course, there are other products in the market place that offer similar features and would also make claim to be the first :-) Our product range is based on
      Message 34 of 34 , Jan 27, 2009
        Of course, there are other products in the market place that offer similar
        features and would also make claim to be the first :-)



        Our product range is based on a standard relational database (SQL Server or
        Oracle). This is a true data warehouse storing every single click by every
        single visitor on the website. We’ve invested a lot of R&D in scalability
        and robustness and do not sample any data. End user applications range from
        dashboards, novel visualisations through to analyst tools (that allow
        arbitrary segmentation, unlimited drilldown etc).



        We’re used by a number of the leading UK companies (including Tesco).



        Best regards,

        Guy

        --

        Guy Evans

        Site Intelligence Ltd



        _____

        From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of enriquejgonzales
        Sent: 26 January 2009 17:24
        To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Why do we still need Omniture?



        Simon,

        I used VisualSciences as the primary analyst at NPR. I have to say I
        concur wholeheartedly about what you say about the product. But you
        missed Akin's point: "Namely: scalability to different kinds of role
        within the organization. I.e. usability / learning curve."

        For NPR, it was difficult to autogenerate the reports we needed and
        impossible to get the editorial team the hands-on access they needed.

        Thanks,

        Enrique Gonzales
        --- In webanalytics@ <mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com, "Simon" <sj_ricketts@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Michael,
        >
        > Interesting that you should raise this question in a post about the
        > need for Omniture! I urge you to have a look at their Discover
        > OnPremise product (Formerly known as Visual Workstation). It has all
        > the capabilities that you mention, ie, unlimited attribute drill-down
        > over time, real scalability and zero data aggregation. Couple this
        > with unlimited multi dimensional segmentation and what you have is an
        > immensely powerful analytics tool. In my opinion, it is the first
        > truly analytical Web Analytics product. By that, I mean that most
        > enterprise WA tools are generally great as reporting and data
        > extraction interfaces, but not so hot on actually conducting
        > analysis - this happens in excel and access.
        >
        > I implemented DoP at a leading UK media owner, with c20m uniques and
        > c170m page views a month, so the requirement to drill down and aviod
        > aggregation was becoming increasingly relevant. DoP allowed a real
        > granular view of the digital business, while the ability to create
        > derived dimensions on the fly and then segment on those dimensions
        > enabled a view on the business that was hitherto impossible.
        >
        > Oh, and it also has the coolest UI out there..! I would
        > recommend that anyone serious about extracting maximum value from
        > their web analytics data to evaluate this tool. And its not just
        > about web data – DoP can interface with ODBC, CSV, XML, etc and
        > unleash its power across any data source. Have a look here:
        > http://www.omniture
        <http://www.omniture.com/en/products/data_discovery/discover_onpremise>
        .com/en/products/data_discovery/discover_onpremise
        >
        > Best regards,
        >
        > Simon Ricketts
        > AKQA
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In webanalytics@ <mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com, "smithmi2232" <smithmi2232@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Stéphane,
        > >
        > > Like yourself I've no commercial bias and agree with you on the
        > space
        > > for a range of players. Some of the European products are clearly
        > > offering particular value to a mature European (particularly UK)
        > > online market. Not sure what the large European online retailers are
        > > using. May be worth looking at Tesco as they are reportedly the
        > biggest...
        > >
        > > With 10-15 years of WA software development you would expect there
        > to
        > > be a more enterprise level maturity in the market. So often there
        > are
        > > blogs on the necessary trade off between true scalability, unlimited
        > > attribute drill-down of all behavioural attributes across all time,
        > > and zero data aggregation. Having all three without compromise would
        > > surely provide rich behavioural data at a customer level invaluable
        > to
        > > businesses, particularly ones using other mining tools for detailed
        > > analysis.
        > >
        > > I'd be interested in anyone's experience or knowledge of a WA
        > product
        > > which conquers all three in one tool, without limiting customer
        > > attributes or requiring predefining what is capture/reported etc?
        > >
        > > Micheal.
        > >
        > > --- In webanalytics@ <mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com, "Stephane Hamel" <shamel67@>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Great comment Michael,
        > > > and I totally agree with you there is room for both GA and
        > Omniture,
        > > > as well as Coremetrics, Webtrends, and even smaller players who
        > are
        > > > very close to their market particularities and needs (I'm
        > thinking of
        > > > smaller players in Europe), etc.
        > > >
        > > > Selecting a tool should be more about web analytics maturity than
        > a
        > > > long feature list, or free vs paid... And in this respect, at the
        > last
        > > > eMetrics Industry Insight we had a round table discussion about
        > the
        > > > topic of "maturity". It sparkled an idea I'm actually working on
        > and
        > > > will be able to share in the coming weeks.
        > > >
        > > > Cheers,
        > > > Stéphane
        > > > http://immeria. <http://immeria.net> net
        > > >
        > > > --- In webanalytics@ <mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com, "mfeiner17" <mfeiner17@>
        > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Stephane,
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > No doubt Omniture has much more to offer than GA. Your list
        > below is
        > > > > spot on. However, with this richness of features/capability
        > often
        > > > > comes complexity - it is not an easy tool to use unless you are
        > a
        > > > > dedicated web analyst.
        > > > >
        > > > > Most my clients are marketers. I often get the "how do I
        > find..."
        > > > > and "what does it mean..." questions from those using Omniture.
        > Far
        > > > > more than with other WA solutions.
        > > > >
        > > > > It is all about segmentation isn't it? Well, I think we should
        > apply
        > > > > the same rule to the tools themselves.
        > > > >
        > > > > GA is a great entry level tool ideal for online marketers (+
        > the
        > > > > technical savvy that can squeeze a lot more out of it).
        > Omniture is a
        > > > > top level enterprise tool for data driven organisations.
        > > > >
        > > > > Interestingly, I think that certain companies could actually
        > benefit
        > > > > from downgrading to a tool like GA. This is especially true
        > when no
        > > > > dedicated web analytics resource is available.
        > > > >
        > > > > They might end up unable to answer the more complex questions,
        > > > > however, they are less likely to suffer from analysis paralysis
        > or
        > > > > tool complexity paralysis (which leads to non usage). Less data
        > but
        > > > > possibly more insight because they will be using the data
        > available.
        > > > >
        > > > > I can hear the echoes of the WA is easy/hard argument in the
        > > > > background.
        > > > >
        > > > > Hopefully, the likes of GA and Yahoo WA will push the envelope
        > > > > forcing the paid solutions to keep inproving sooner rather than
        > later
        > > > >
        > > > > Think motion charts - I perdict this feature will change WA
        > > > > visualisation. Vendors will be pressed to create motional
        > charts for
        > > > > the likes of trend analysis.
        > > > >
        > > > > Michael Feiner
        > > > > AEP Convert
        > > > > www.aepconvert.com
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In webanalytics@ <mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com, "Stephane Hamel"
        > <shamel67@>
        > > > > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Ho boy, ho boy!
        > > > > > this is going to be a very interesting thread!
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Real time... ok, nice, but very few companies actually need
        > it!
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Couple of things, top of my head, but certainly not complete:
        > > > > > - custom metrics: way better than the single user variable
        > offered
        > > > > by
        > > > > > GA (and you can apply some rules on them, like duration, data
        > type,
        > > > > etc.)
        > > > > > - calculated metrics: build new composite metrics
        > > > > > - export AND import API (GA API only allow you to download,
        > not
        > > > > upload
        > > > > > your data)
        > > > > > - advanced dashboarding: create multiple dashboards, with
        > advanced
        > > > > > widgets, share them, etc.
        > > > > > - collaboration features: annotations, forums, share
        > bookmarks,
        > > > > share
        > > > > > calculated metrics, dashboards, etc.
        > > > > > - integration with dozens of partners through Genesis,
        > including
        > > > > > emails services, surveys, behavioral targeting, MVT, call
        > centers
        > > > > > data, name it...
        > > > > > - Excel plugin (get real... who doesn't use Excel?)
        > > > > > - suite integration with Survey, Test & Target, internal
        > Search,
        > > > > etc.
        > > > > > - Discover is a very powerful BI & visualization tool
        > > > > > - very powerful campaign management tool called SearchCenter
        > > > > > - Datawarehouse feature (raw data queries, also import your
        > own
        > > > > data)
        > > > > > - ASI filters (apply logic before data is being processed)
        > > > > > - more powerful conversion funnels/pathing rules
        > > > > > - outstanding documentation, training material, knowledge base
        > > > > > - ok, some people complain about support, but it is generally
        > very
        > > > > > good (and for that matter, with GA you have to rely on
        > independent
        > > > > > consulting agencies... you could do the same for Omniture if
        > you
        > > > > like!)
        > > > > >
        > > > > > As much as I love Google Analytics, and with all due respect
        > for
        > > > > > Avinash and the whole team at Google, I think GA is a good
        > tool, but
        > > > > > those who can't understand the huge gap between it and a high
        > end
        > > > > > solution such as SiteCatalyst are missing a big piece of the
        > puzzle.
        > > > > > It's amazing the number of "pros" of web analytics who have
        > emerged
        > > > > in
        > > > > > the last 6 to 12 months because they suddenly discovered web
        > > > > analytics
        > > > > > and have installed GA on their own site. And almost reminds
        > me of
        > > > > the
        > > > > > early days of the web, when anyone who could say what HTML
        > stands
        > > > > for
        > > > > > was a genius...
        > > > > >
        > > > > > However, I must admit it was already difficult to convince
        > managers
        > > > > > that "free" shouldn't be the 1st criteria when choosing a
        > solution.
        > > > > I
        > > > > > guess it will be even harder now!
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I have no commercial interests either in Google Analytics or
        > > > > Omniture
        > > > > > SiteCatalyst, nor Coremetrics, Webtrends, Yahoo! Analytics, AT
        > > > > > Internet Xiti, and about 100 other tools... When consulting,
        > I speak
        > > > > > fluent "web analytics" regardless of the tool, and heck! I
        > have even
        > > > > > implemented and used most of them! :)
        > > > > >
        > > > > > As a web analytics professional interested in education,
        > market
        > > > > > research and R&D with WASP, I take great care of being
        > independent
        > > > > and
        > > > > > unbiased.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I look forward to others comments!
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Stéphane Hamel
        > > > > > http://immeria. <http://immeria.net> net
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In webanalytics@ <mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>
        yahoogroups.com, "Paul Holstein" <paul@>
        > wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > OK, this question was bound to come up. Given Eric
        > Peterson's
        > > > > recent
        > > > > > > post at Webanalyticsdemystified.com, it seams to me that
        > Omniture
        > > > > had
        > > > > > > better get ready to answer this question with conviction.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I'll get things started by saying that Omniture provides
        > near
        > > > > real time
        > > > > > > metrics. GA doesn't.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > So what do you think? Let's hear it.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >





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