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Newbie question(s) about proxy servers

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  • buffal0gal
    I m trying to get a handle on how big the proxy server issue really is. Does anybody know the percentage of users who have dial-up that goes through AOL or
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 4, 2005
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      I'm trying to get a handle on how big the "proxy server" issue really
      is. Does anybody know the percentage of users who have dial-up that
      goes through AOL or caching servers like NetZero or Netscape Web
      Accelerator.

      Would visitors be "no referrer" just showing up a few pages deep in
      our site or would they be referred from their ISP? Or is that a
      vendor-specific issue?

      Any recommendations on what questions to ask vendors while we're
      upgrading?
    • Andrew Edwards
      Hi-- The proxy server issue is large but with some vendors, geographical tracking is still possible even within aol domains--some of them can look inside of
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 4, 2005
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        Hi--

        The proxy server issue is large but with some vendors, geographical
        tracking is still possible even within aol domains--some of them can
        "look inside" of some providers' proxy servers for geography (but not
        individual info). However, without persistent cookies even this data is
        likely to be less than accurate or meaningful.

        Typically no-referrer means the visitor has typed in your url and
        therefore this statistic should be seen as a measure of the success of
        your off-line branding.

        Hope this was helpful.

        Andrew Edwards
        Managing Partner
        Technology Leaders

        buffal0gal wrote:

        >I'm trying to get a handle on how big the "proxy server" issue really
        >is. Does anybody know the percentage of users who have dial-up that
        >goes through AOL or caching servers like NetZero or Netscape Web
        >Accelerator.
        >
        >Would visitors be "no referrer" just showing up a few pages deep in
        >our site or would they be referred from their ISP? Or is that a
        >vendor-specific issue?
        >
        >Any recommendations on what questions to ask vendors while we're
        >upgrading?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >---------------------------------------
        >Web Metrics Discussion Group
        >Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
        >Author, Web Analytics Demystified
        >http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • buffal0gal
        When you say the issue is large, does that mean 15% of web traffic, 50% of web traffic, or it depends on how many AOL users visit our site?
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 4, 2005
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          When you say the issue is large, does that mean 15% of web traffic,
          50% of web traffic, or it depends on how many AOL users visit our site?

          --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Edwards <aedwards@t...> wrote:
          > Hi--
          >
          > The proxy server issue is large but with some vendors, geographical
          > tracking is still possible even within aol domains--some of them can
          > "look inside" of some providers' proxy servers for geography (but not
          > individual info). However, without persistent cookies even this data is
          > likely to be less than accurate or meaningful.
          >
          > Typically no-referrer means the visitor has typed in your url and
          > therefore this statistic should be seen as a measure of the success of
          > your off-line branding.
          >
          > Hope this was helpful.
          >
          > Andrew Edwards
          > Managing Partner
          > Technology Leaders
          >
          > buffal0gal wrote:
          >
          > >I'm trying to get a handle on how big the "proxy server" issue really
          > >is. Does anybody know the percentage of users who have dial-up that
          > >goes through AOL or caching servers like NetZero or Netscape Web
          > >Accelerator.
          > >
          > >Would visitors be "no referrer" just showing up a few pages deep in
          > >our site or would they be referred from their ISP? Or is that a
          > >vendor-specific issue?
          > >
          > >Any recommendations on what questions to ask vendors while we're
          > >upgrading?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >---------------------------------------
          > >Web Metrics Discussion Group
          > >Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
          > >Author, Web Analytics Demystified
          > >http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
        • Andrew Edwards
          It definitely depends on the amt of people using aol, but other isps also use proxy servers. I would say that without specific geographic targeting software
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 4, 2005
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            It definitely depends on the amt of people using aol, but other isps
            also use proxy servers. I would say that without specific geographic
            targeting software involved in the mix, your geographical data is going
            to be statistically skewed to the point where it won't be of any use. I
            hate to use numbers because no one knows this for sure but I would put
            it easily over 50% as an estimate.

            buffal0gal wrote:

            >When you say the issue is large, does that mean 15% of web traffic,
            >50% of web traffic, or it depends on how many AOL users visit our site?
            >
            >--- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Edwards <aedwards@t...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >>Hi--
            >>
            >>The proxy server issue is large but with some vendors, geographical
            >>tracking is still possible even within aol domains--some of them can
            >>"look inside" of some providers' proxy servers for geography (but not
            >>individual info). However, without persistent cookies even this data is
            >>likely to be less than accurate or meaningful.
            >>
            >>Typically no-referrer means the visitor has typed in your url and
            >>therefore this statistic should be seen as a measure of the success of
            >>your off-line branding.
            >>
            >>Hope this was helpful.
            >>
            >>Andrew Edwards
            >>Managing Partner
            >>Technology Leaders
            >>
            >>buffal0gal wrote:
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>>I'm trying to get a handle on how big the "proxy server" issue really
            >>>is. Does anybody know the percentage of users who have dial-up that
            >>>goes through AOL or caching servers like NetZero or Netscape Web
            >>>Accelerator.
            >>>
            >>>Would visitors be "no referrer" just showing up a few pages deep in
            >>>our site or would they be referred from their ISP? Or is that a
            >>>vendor-specific issue?
            >>>
            >>>Any recommendations on what questions to ask vendors while we're
            >>>upgrading?
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>---------------------------------------
            >>>Web Metrics Discussion Group
            >>>Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
            >>>Author, Web Analytics Demystified
            >>>http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
            >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >---------------------------------------
            >Web Metrics Discussion Group
            >Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
            >Author, Web Analytics Demystified
            >http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Alan White
            I m thinking that there may be more than one issue with the, proxy server issue . o geography masking - The AOL/everyone lives in Virginia effect. o caching -
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 4, 2005
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              I'm thinking that there may be more than one issue with the, "proxy
              server issue".

              o geography masking - The AOL/everyone lives in Virginia effect.
              o caching - much more relevant to log analysis than pixeling.

              I don't have any recent numbers, but due to AOL's size relative to the
              online population, they used to be a big chunk. One study in the late
              '90s showed that they accounted for 30% of one site's traffic. I'm
              thinking that it has been moderated some.

              If you're interested in AOL's policy on caching:
              http://webmaster.info.aol.com/caching.html

              Also, here's a paper by Tom Shields (cofounder of NetGravity, now part
              of DoubleClick) on measuring through cache, the basic approach that ad
              servers use: http://www.basswood.com/standards/WD-countmethod.html


              -----Original Message-----
              From: buffal0gal [mailto:anne.stark@...]
              Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 1:08 PM
              To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [webanalytics] Newbie question(s) about proxy servers




              I'm trying to get a handle on how big the "proxy server" issue really
              is. Does anybody know the percentage of users who have dial-up that
              goes through AOL or caching servers like NetZero or Netscape Web
              Accelerator.

              Would visitors be "no referrer" just showing up a few pages deep in
              our site or would they be referred from their ISP? Or is that a
              vendor-specific issue?

              Any recommendations on what questions to ask vendors while we're
              upgrading?







              ---------------------------------------
              Web Metrics Discussion Group
              Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
              Author, Web Analytics Demystified
              http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Andrew Lientz
              The issue of Geographical proxies extends beyond AOL. Be careful on how far you trust the corporate and geographic lookups from IP addresses. We recommend our
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 4, 2005
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                The issue of Geographical proxies extends beyond AOL. Be careful on how
                far you trust the corporate and geographic lookups from IP addresses.
                We recommend our clients set up another event to track geography in
                addition to IP Address look ups. This can come from any form on your
                site that collects address information. This lets you understand the
                accuracy of external look up data with data you know to be correct.
                Then you can understand the data for in the context of your site.

                Futhermore, with the larger adoption of anonymous IP proxies
                (see http://www.stayinvisible.com/index.pl/proxy_servers_faq ),
                IP address look ups to determine the origin of your traffic (especially
                marketing) may be the wrong approach to take.

                Andy
                --
                ...---......---...
                Andrew Lientz
                310-647-4240 x 201
                lientz@...


                On Mon, 2005-04-04 at 14:12 -0400, Alan White wrote:
                > I'm thinking that there may be more than one issue with the, "proxy
                > server issue".
                >
                > o geography masking - The AOL/everyone lives in Virginia effect.
                > o caching - much more relevant to log analysis than pixeling.
                >
                > I don't have any recent numbers, but due to AOL's size relative to the
                > online population, they used to be a big chunk. One study in the late
                > '90s showed that they accounted for 30% of one site's traffic. I'm
                > thinking that it has been moderated some.
                >
                > If you're interested in AOL's policy on caching:
                > http://webmaster.info.aol.com/caching.html
                >
                > Also, here's a paper by Tom Shields (cofounder of NetGravity, now part
                > of DoubleClick) on measuring through cache, the basic approach that ad
                > servers use: http://www.basswood.com/standards/WD-countmethod.html
                >
                >
                >
                >
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