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Re: Webtrends Scenario analysis discrepancy

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  • syedspiky
    Wow! this is Great!Many many thanks for taking time to explain it so clearly. Thanks again.
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 2, 2008
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      Wow! this is Great!Many many thanks for taking time to explain it so
      clearly. Thanks again.

      --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Nick Potter" <nickpotter@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ok, this will get complicated so I warn in advance (but it is I think
      > one of the reasons why people have so much trouble with this).
      >
      > The number for each individual step (lets call this Ns) is calculated
      > from:
      >
      > those coming from the previous step (Np),
      > those coming into that step from *outside* the scenario (No),
      > those coming to the step from other steps within the scenario other
      > than the previous step i.e. going back (Nb)
      > those leaving the scenario entirely (Ne), and
      > those jumping to a step other than the next one (Nj).
      >
      > Therefore:
      >
      > Ns = Np + (No + Nb) - (Ne + Nj)
      >
      > Now the trouble is, the default view of the scenario shows you
      > movement in the order you expect (step 1, then 2, then 3) plus people
      > coming or going external to the scenario. So what you are missing is
      > Nb and Nj above.
      >
      > The other view for the chart shows you movement in the order you
      > expect (step 1, then 2, then 3) plus people jumping to steps out of
      > order in the scenario. So this time you are missing No and Ne above.
      >
      > So what I was trying to convey in my original response is you never
      > see all the figures into or out of a step at any one time and this is
      > why the numbers never add up.
      >
      >
      > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "syedspiky" <syedspiky@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Nick,
      > > Many many thanks for your reply. appologies for my ignorance in this.
      > > I have understood that there are one chart and one table explains the
      > > scenario converions. But isn't it 'users coming from previous step to
      > > the next step in the graphical chart' is movement within the
      > > scenario? This number of users are clearly shown in the graphical
      > > chart just by the 'down arrow'. Or do you mean that in the graphical
      > > chart scenario Webtrends never captures all the users coming from
      > > the previous step to the next step? Thanks again...
      > >
      > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Nick Potter" <nickpotter@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > If I had a penny for every time my users ask me this question, I'd
      > > > have a lot of pennies by now!
      > > >
      > > > The best explanation I got for this is that you are only looking at
      > > > half of the picture at any one time as there are two charts you can
      > > > view for a scenario.
      > > >
      > > > The first (and most common view) is movement between the scenario
      > > and
      > > > pages external to it. So basically it ignores movement within the
      > > > scenario and only looks at visitors coming in from a page or leaving
      > > > to a page that is not part of your scenario.
      > > >
      > > > The second view ignores all pages external to the scenario and only
      > > > looks at movement between pages/steps in your scenario.
      > > >
      > > > So when you're looking at a single view and try to add up those
      > > coming
      > > > into the scenario, coming down from the previous step and take away
      > > > those leaving it doesn't add up right because you're never seeing
      > > > everyone coming into or leaving a step.
      > > >
      > > > The line I usually give my users is to uses the table at the bottom
      > > to
      > > > look at individual step and complete scenario conversion rates and
      > > use
      > > > the chart to see which pages people are entering or leaving your
      > > > scenario on.
      > > >
      > > > Hope this makes sense!
      > > >
      > > > Nick
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "syedspiky" <syedspiky@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi all, I have a question with regards to the webtrends scenario
      > > > > analysis. In my products conversion scenarios, the total users
      > > > > (usually in the middle of the scenario conversion chart)in a
      > > specific
      > > > > step of the scenario never matches the total of 'the users coming
      > > from
      > > > > the previous step' and 'the users coming to this step from other
      > > > > paths/pages'. Logically, this should be the total number of these
      > > two
      > > > > figures. But why this figure always less or more in most of the
      > > > > scenario steps? This is creating doubts in the reliablility and
      > > > > accuracy of the scenario analysis and conversion rates in
      > > Webtrends.I
      > > > > would really appreciate if anybody answers.
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Nick Potter
      Michael, Thanks. The explanation is born from frequently having to answer this question! I think its something WT needs to look at (perhaps their new UI hire)
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 2, 2008
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        Michael,

        Thanks. The explanation is born from frequently having to answer this
        question!

        I think its something WT needs to look at (perhaps their new UI hire)
        as it obviously causes everyone lots of grief.

        Nick

        --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "michaelnotte" <michaelnotte@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Wow! I'm impressed by your mathematical answer Nick!
        >
        > I fully agree with you that while very colourful, the scenario graph
        > in WebTrends is bringing more confusion to most users and really
        > give us hard time to explain it correctly with simple word. I wish
        > there would a way to hide the figures (just keep the %).
        >
        > I mostly rely on the table as you said because, it is not easy to
        > explain and when you try, most of the time users look puzzled and
        > septical (and then they don't trust the tool :-))
        >
        > Michael
        >
        > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Nick Potter" <nickpotter@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Ok, this will get complicated so I warn in advance (but it is I
        > think
        > > one of the reasons why people have so much trouble with this).
        > >
        > > The number for each individual step (lets call this Ns) is
        > calculated
        > > from:
        > >
        > > those coming from the previous step (Np),
        > > those coming into that step from *outside* the scenario (No),
        > > those coming to the step from other steps within the scenario other
        > > than the previous step i.e. going back (Nb)
        > > those leaving the scenario entirely (Ne), and
        > > those jumping to a step other than the next one (Nj).
        > >
        > > Therefore:
        > >
        > > Ns = Np + (No + Nb) - (Ne + Nj)
        > >
        > > Now the trouble is, the default view of the scenario shows you
        > > movement in the order you expect (step 1, then 2, then 3) plus
        > people
        > > coming or going external to the scenario. So what you are missing
        > is
        > > Nb and Nj above.
        > >
        > > The other view for the chart shows you movement in the order you
        > > expect (step 1, then 2, then 3) plus people jumping to steps out of
        > > order in the scenario. So this time you are missing No and Ne
        > above.
        > >
        > > So what I was trying to convey in my original response is you never
        > > see all the figures into or out of a step at any one time and this
        > is
        > > why the numbers never add up.
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "syedspiky" <syedspiky@>
        > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi Nick,
        > > > Many many thanks for your reply. appologies for my ignorance in
        > this.
        > > > I have understood that there are one chart and one table
        > explains the
        > > > scenario converions. But isn't it 'users coming from previous
        > step to
        > > > the next step in the graphical chart' is movement within the
        > > > scenario? This number of users are clearly shown in the
        > graphical
        > > > chart just by the 'down arrow'. Or do you mean that in the
        > graphical
        > > > chart scenario Webtrends never captures all the users coming
        > from
        > > > the previous step to the next step? Thanks again...
        > > >
        > > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Nick Potter" <nickpotter@>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > If I had a penny for every time my users ask me this question,
        > I'd
        > > > > have a lot of pennies by now!
        > > > >
        > > > > The best explanation I got for this is that you are only
        > looking at
        > > > > half of the picture at any one time as there are two charts
        > you can
        > > > > view for a scenario.
        > > > >
        > > > > The first (and most common view) is movement between the
        > scenario
        > > > and
        > > > > pages external to it. So basically it ignores movement within
        > the
        > > > > scenario and only looks at visitors coming in from a page or
        > leaving
        > > > > to a page that is not part of your scenario.
        > > > >
        > > > > The second view ignores all pages external to the scenario and
        > only
        > > > > looks at movement between pages/steps in your scenario.
        > > > >
        > > > > So when you're looking at a single view and try to add up
        > those
        > > > coming
        > > > > into the scenario, coming down from the previous step and take
        > away
        > > > > those leaving it doesn't add up right because you're never
        > seeing
        > > > > everyone coming into or leaving a step.
        > > > >
        > > > > The line I usually give my users is to uses the table at the
        > bottom
        > > > to
        > > > > look at individual step and complete scenario conversion rates
        > and
        > > > use
        > > > > the chart to see which pages people are entering or leaving
        > your
        > > > > scenario on.
        > > > >
        > > > > Hope this makes sense!
        > > > >
        > > > > Nick
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "syedspiky" <syedspiky@>
        > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Hi all, I have a question with regards to the webtrends
        > scenario
        > > > > > analysis. In my products conversion scenarios, the total
        > users
        > > > > > (usually in the middle of the scenario conversion chart)in a
        > > > specific
        > > > > > step of the scenario never matches the total of 'the users
        > coming
        > > > from
        > > > > > the previous step' and 'the users coming to this step from
        > other
        > > > > > paths/pages'. Logically, this should be the total number of
        > these
        > > > two
        > > > > > figures. But why this figure always less or more in most of
        > the
        > > > > > scenario steps? This is creating doubts in the reliablility
        > and
        > > > > > accuracy of the scenario analysis and conversion rates in
        > > > Webtrends.I
        > > > > > would really appreciate if anybody answers.
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
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