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Re: WAA Local, WAA Global - Your thoughts?

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  • clotetjaume
    Hi Sergio, As you know, I have been in the board of the Spanish Marketing Association http://www.apmarketing.es during 8 years, which I have recently abandoned
    Message 1 of 6 , May 1, 2008
      Hi Sergio,

      As you know, I have been in the board of the Spanish Marketing
      Association http://www.apmarketing.es during 8 years, which I have
      recently abandoned to become WAA Country Manager for Spain, with the
      support of the european country managers like Rene Dechamps.

      I would like to share my thoughts about this issue. In my opinion, we
      have WA Global market interests and local particular characters.

      Let me refer to the American Marketing Association (AMA)
      http://www.marketingpower.com, or the IAB, both organizations are
      leading global market interests like standards definitions, statement
      of ethics or market definitions.

      In my opinion, every country should have their own local associations
      with different character, why not? Here in Spain we have a few
      marketing associations in different cities (some of them since 1959).
      All this local associations operate in a local basis, with very local
      events. But, all them always looking to the AMA as a source of
      innovation, trends and global marketing interests.

      Finally, the future of the associations is in the hands of volunteers,
      if they want to open new chapters of the WAA or they prefer to do it
      separately. But, in my opinion, a global recognized and strong
      organization is needed for some global market interests without
      killing local organizations with its particular character.

      I suggest to join our efforts WAA (for global interests) and AEAW, for
      the Spanish Market Benefit. I look forward to see you in June and
      start working ;-)

      Jaume


      --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Sergio Maldonado"
      <sergio.maldonado.elvira@...> wrote:
      >
      > :)
      >
      > Great, I look forward to it too.
      >
      > I agree on that: The same approach is not applicable to many countries.
      >
      > In my experience, small and outward-looking countries (perhaps out of
      > necessity) such as Sweden or The Netherlands fare really well in these
      > joint environments, even though English is not even their native
      > language. Italy and Spain could represent the opposite, with France
      > and Germany possibly in the middle (open to opinions, no doubt).
      >
      > As you rightly saw, I was mainly focusing on the Spanish case, which I
      > think I know really well.
      >
      > So, to your questions on AEAW and WAA: From its inception, it has been
      > the goal of the AEAW to link up with the WAA. This can take place in
      > the form of a merger or by finding a membership type within the WAA
      > that is applicable to existing local associations (I am certain we
      > will not have to wait 10 years for this :)
      >
      > We insist to everybody who asks that we also participate in the WAA
      > (if only passively), and I believe this must always be the case, as we
      > do not want to duplicate certain efforts.
      >
      > We can take it from here next week.
      >
      > Best,
      >
      > Sergio
      >
      > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:08 AM, Wandering Dave Rhee
      > <wdaveonline@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi, Sergio,
      > >
      > > Your comments are very well thought-out, and I certainly appreciate
      > > your sharing them!
      > >
      > > I'm looking forward to meeting you in SF so we can all discuss this
      > > issue further. (Late comers and interruptions welcome! ;-) )
      > >
      > > I think your point is interesting, that the intra-European
      differences
      > > are great enough that regional WAAs will not solve any issues, but
      > > that only local (country-specific) WAAs will. I'm concerned, though,
      > > that the population of active WA professionals in many countries,
      > > particularly developing ones, is too small to support the volunteer
      > > effort needed to develop local resources. How have you managed to do
      > > this with the AEAW, and do you think it would be possible for other
      > > European (and Asian) countries besides Spain, or do you think the
      > > Spanish environment was uniquely supportive of creating a country
      WAA?
      > >
      > > Do you see a point in the future, perhaps 10 years from now, when it
      > > would make sense for the WAA and AEAW to merge? If so, I can imagine
      > > a process where the "global" WAA supports the creation of local WAAs,
      > > with the anticipation that at some future point, when the maturity
      > > levels of the industry and customer base are close, that a merger is
      > > expected, so that the path is clear from the beginning. Or do you see
      > > this as culturally unlikely (or even impossible), despite the
      > > professional reasons that might make it desirable?
      > >
      > > WDave
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Sergio Maldonado
      > > <sergio.maldonado.elvira@...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Many thanks for your thoughts, Dave. I find them highly
      appropriate for
      > > > the dilemma many of us have been facing in the past few months.
      It will
      > > > help
      > > > to add that I am a co-founder of the Spanish WAA (AEAW).
      > > >
      > > > For a start, I fully agree with Jim that this is not about a
      "superior"
      > > > entity imposing a unique line of thought or national view on
      everyone
      > > else,
      > > > but rather what the community is able to produce by and for itself.
      > > > Naturally, the most mature market (US) develops first and those
      in less
      > > > developed countries wishing to reap the rewards of such
      progress are
      > > forced
      > > > to adapt.
      > > >
      > > > If we get down to discussing Europe, I must also agree on this:
      As proven
      > > > in
      > > > many other fields, there are too many "Europes" to be pooled
      together
      > > that
      > > > easily. Cultural barriers remain strong between geographical
      neighbours.
      > > > The
      > > > level of development is also unbalanced throughout the continent.
      > > >
      > > > Having returned to my home country after spending most years of my
      > > > professional life away from it (US, UK, Belgium), I have come
      to realise
      > > > that Spain is a country which is locked into itself like few
      others. I
      > > > spend
      > > > most of my time with clients and colleagues whose sources of
      information
      > > > are
      > > > limited to those translated into their own language. But more
      > > importantly,
      > > > communications take place in a whole different manner.
      Netiquette, even
      > > > basic social rules have their own national flavour. Why is it that
      > > Spanish
      > > > companies are much more likely to expand into Latin American
      countries
      > > than
      > > > anywhere else?
      > > >
      > > > In short, my thoughts: I agree the "University" model is a
      preferable
      > > one,
      > > > but I believe it only suits highly international "species" like
      you and
      > > I,
      > > > leaving it all in the hands of a rare "elite" (or should I say,
      "group of
      > > > unfortunate chosen ones" :).
      > > >
      > > > The way I see it, the flexibility required on the common ground
      so as to
      > > > encompass every possible national approach could be too much of a
      > > sacrifice
      > > > for the already established (US/UK?) model. I cannot forget
      having dealt
      > > > with this very issue when taking part in the OASIS Technical
      Committees.
      > > It
      > > > is just so much easier to keep moving forward at full speed
      with the
      > > > well-proven anglosaxon model... and then stick to
      > > > national "creatures" that will naturally blossom as markets
      mature. I
      > > also
      > > > recommend taking a close look at the legal world (and the
      relationship
      > > > between the International Bar Association and the local Bars).
      > > >
      > > > What have we chosen to do in Spain? Two things:
      > > >
      > > > 1. Embrace the "US" WAA, as it is the source of new
      developments and
      > > gives
      > > > us a great perspective into what is going on out there.
      > > >
      > > > 2. Create a national association under Spanish law (itself
      built on the
      > > > local culture and therefore easy to accept in terms of policies,
      > > government
      > > > and bylaws), with the goal of linking it up with the WAA.
      > > >
      > > > Advantages:
      > > >
      > > > - All international developments are funnelled, digested and
      translated
      > > for
      > > > the local community, in its own terms and focusing on the
      issues that
      > > have
      > > > stuck out as preferential (resulting in the locals not being
      forced to go
      > > > through the maze themselves, in a foreign language).
      > > >
      > > > - All internal (Spanish national) developments are equally
      funnelled
      > > > outwards.
      > > >
      > > > - Both the local and global or US communities can join forces with
      > > regards
      > > > to events, discussions, etc.
      > > >
      > > > - The local association has its own reasons of being. A
      community grows
      > > > naturally, at its own pace, nurtured by the very market it is
      intended to
      > > > serve and ensuring a democratic approach to its governance.
      > > >
      > > > I am in favour of global approaches to issues where everybody
      follows the
      > > > same rules, criteria and goals. I just don't think this is the
      case.
      > > >
      > > > I look forward to meeting up in our beloved SF and discuss this
      further.
      > > As
      > > > a good Spaniard, I will do my best to arrive late and interrupt
      you as
      > > you
      > > > speak :)
      > > >
      > > > Regards,
      > > >
      > > > Sergio Maldonado
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > On 4/24/08, Wandering Dave Rhee <wdaveonline@...> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi, All,
      > > > >
      > > > > Many of you already follow Eric Peterson's blog and will have
      seen the
      > > > > fascinating comment thread developing in the wake of his
      provocative
      > > > > post about the Web Analytics Association, and the likelihood
      of there
      > > > > being region- or country-specific WAAs at some point in the
      future.
      > > > > Whether you live in the US or elsewhere, it's worth your time
      to read
      > > > > it at
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      http://blog.webanalyticsdemystified.com/weblog/2008/04/europe-and-the-web-analytics-association.html
      > > > >
      > > > > You should also read Jim Sterne's comments at the eMetrics
      blog at
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      http://emetrics.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/europe-and-the-web-analytics-association/
      > > > >
      > > > > As I'm speaking only for myself, and not for my (primarily
      > > > > pan-European) employer, or for the WAA, or as this forum's
      primary
      > > > > moderator, I thought I'd post something here, so that others
      can more
      > > > > easily join in the conversation. Of course, you can also post on
      > > > > Eric's and Jim's blogs as well.
      > > > >
      > > > > I think there is one philosophical difference between the
      most likely
      > > > > outcomes, and all the issues which have been raised so far
      fall out of
      > > > > this difference. The "local scenario" being discussed as an
      > > > > alternative to the single global WAA generally has individual
      members
      > > > > joining a country (or regional) WAA, and each of the country
      > > > > associations in turn belonging to a global parent, which may
      be the
      > > > > current WAA, or might be a new creation. If I were to "draw"
      it, it
      > > > > would look like this (apologies for formatting distortions,
      but you
      > > > > probably get the idea):
      > > > >
      > > > > Country Scenario
      > > > >
      > > > > John - WAA US \
      > > > > Johann - WAA Germany - WAA Global Parent
      > > > > Jean - WAA France /
      > > > >
      > > > > Some points which result from this scenario might include:
      > > > > - Each local WAA sets its own membership dues and policies
      > > > > - A local WAA could theoretically choose not to join the
      global parent
      > > > > - Members in each local WAA may receive different levels of
      benefit
      > > > > from the global parent (by vote of each local WAA)
      > > > > - Local events could be sponsored separately from global events
      > > > > - Resources would differ by local WAA (job boards, member
      > > > > directories, product or conference discounts, access to research)
      > > > > - Discounted "Associate" membership fees in sister local WAAs
      might
      > > > > be possible (e.g., for members doing business in multiple
      locations)
      > > > >
      > > > > The potential benefits continue, of course, though we can see
      that
      > > > > some local WAAs would be better developed and provided for than
      > > > > others, relying primarily on their local member resources,
      which many
      > > > > areas simply lack in abundance.
      > > > >
      > > > > However, there is another "global scenario" which I think
      addresses
      > > > > all of these needs, retains the flexibility of being able to
      handle
      > > > > differing local resource and commitment levels, and yet still
      > > > > preserves the global community many of us continue to work at
      building.
      > > > >
      > > > > Global Scenario
      > > > >
      > > > > John \ / WAA US
      > > > > Johann - WAA Global - WAA Germany
      > > > > Jean / \ WAA France
      > > > >
      > > > > The closest analogy I can think of that we'd all be familiar
      with is
      > > > > like a university with many students (members) and many
      departments or
      > > > > fields of study (common-interest resource pools). Students
      generally
      > > > > enroll in and pay tuition to their university, but select a
      specific
      > > > > department based on their primary field of interest. Different
      > > > > departments assess fees for their unique needs (labs, art
      supplies,
      > > > > specialized texts, etc.), yet every student can draw on the
      common
      > > > > shared resources of the greater community, such as
      extracurricular
      > > > > organizations and various services.
      > > > >
      > > > > Benefits of this approach include:
      > > > > - Common membership in a global community
      > > > > - Ability to select a local affiliation, or be a member at large
      > > > > - Potential to assess different membership fees based on
      criteria of
      > > > > location or other status (student, individual, corporate, etc.),
      > > > > generally based on trust
      > > > > - Flexibility to donate your time and energy to building local
      > > > > resources if you choose, along with your local peers (e.g., local
      > > > > membership committees)
      > > > > - Flexibility to pool your time and energy to building global
      > > > > resources with others who are not local (e.g., global research
      > > > committees)
      > > > > - Ability to take advantage of global shared resources of
      many types
      > > > > (membership directories, conference discounts, etc.)
      > > > >
      > > > > In fact, as has been pointed out, there seems to be no limit
      to the
      > > > > flexibility of a global organization whose members choose to
      act on a
      > > > > local basis for some projects, and a global basis for others.
      Local
      > > > > groups would have fewer resources to draw from, rather than
      more, and
      > > > > not benefit from the synergies present in a global community.
      > > > >
      > > > > To use other language, the "federation" model is predicated
      on the
      > > > > notion that each local community should provide all resources
      > > > > possible, and that the global parent provide only those resources
      > > > > which the local communities cannot provide on their own. In
      our case,
      > > > > perhaps this would be setting standards, or offering a global
      > > > > membership directory.
      > > > >
      > > > > By contrast, a "university" model allows many departments to
      exist,
      > > > > offering only what is unique to them, and allowing all common
      > > > > resources to be pooled for greater effectiveness.
      > > > >
      > > > > To my mind, the universal collaboration and collegiality of
      the global
      > > > > approach seems to be much more efficient than a local
      approach, yet
      > > > > doesn't restrict my ability to contribute to my local efforts --
      > > > > working for a Belgian-based firm, living in Germany,
      collaborating
      > > > > with fellow Americans, and of course moderating this global
      forum.
      > > > >
      > > > > As Jim Sterne has pointed out, there is a common
      misconception that
      > > > > the global model is "restrictive" rather than "permissive" --
      and I
      > > > > believe this comes from most of us (myself included) not
      being used to
      > > > > "governance" in a volunteer organization. Nobody withholds
      resources
      > > > > from projects that a member wishes to pursue, whether local
      or global.
      > > > > Rather, we lack only volunteers to do whatever they choose
      to, and to
      > > > > coordinate efforts of their colleagues for their own benefit.
      This is
      > > > > ever true, regardless of the scale, size, or location of any
      volunteer
      > > > > organization. Working within the shelter of an umbrella group,
      > > > > however, permits us volunteers to leverage common resources
      and not
      > > > > spend precious energy re-inventing the wheel for each new
      initiative.
      > > > >
      > > > > Okay -- that's my take on the issue. What's yours? This is a
      global
      > > > > conversation, and we're a global forum, so please join in!
      > > > >
      > > > > WDave Rhee, Moderator, WAA Member
      > > > > Analytics Country Manager, OX2 / LBi Group (ox2.eu, lbigroup.be)
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
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