Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [webanalytics] Re: User tracking -- consolidating page views after login?

Expand Messages
  • Nick Arnett
    On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Christian Dumas
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 30, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Christian Dumas <
      Yahoo.groups@...> wrote:

      > Hi, when you ask "I'm wondering if it is common practice to associate
      >
      > the previous visitor id with the registered user, to get more a more
      > complete picture?", the visitor ID should not change when a user logs
      > on. It's the same visitor, on the same visit.
      >








      It doesn't. I guess this is hard to explain clearly. The issue is when
      generating *user* (as in registered user) statistics. Before the user logs
      in, there's no way for the system to know if it is a registered user (unless
      it recognizes the cookie, but many people clear their cookies regularly, in
      my experience). The only reason is is *possible* to associate the previous
      pageviews with the visitor's user id is because the visitor id doesn't
      change.

      >
      >
      > If your analytics solution allows you to set custom variables that can
      > be tied to the visit (e.g. eVars for Omniture), then all the pages
      > viewed in the course of the visit (even prior to logging in) are then
      > tied to the value in that visit expiring variable.
      >








      That's what I was asking. So Omniture can associate the earlier page views
      to the user, even though the user didn't log in until later in the visit?
      Can other tools do this? I'm assuming it is always a matter of
      customization, since user ids are always custom.

      I think the confusing thing about talking about this is "visitor" v. "user."
      Everybody is a visitor, not everybody is a user (a/k/a registered user or
      member).

      Thanks.

      Nick

      --
      Nick Arnett
      narnett@...
      Messages: 408-904-7198


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Guy Evans
      Associating earlier page views within the same visit is, I imagine, something that many solutions can do. Where it becomes more interesting is being able to
      Message 2 of 9 , May 1, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Associating earlier page views within the same visit is, I imagine,
        something that many solutions can do. Where it becomes more interesting is
        being able to associate activity in previous visits (and indeed subsequent
        visits) with that visitor. This enables analysis such as determining which
        campaigns attract/re-activate customers from different demographics.



        Disclaimer: I work for a vendor.



        Cheers

        Guy

        --

        Site Intelligence Ltd



        _____

        From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Nick Arnett
        Sent: 01 May 2008 05:37
        To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [webanalytics] Re: User tracking -- consolidating page views
        after login?



        On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Christian Dumas <
        Yahoo.groups@ <mailto:Yahoo.groups%40morphadelic.com> morphadelic.com>
        wrote:

        > Hi, when you ask "I'm wondering if it is common practice to associate
        >
        > the previous visitor id with the registered user, to get more a more
        > complete picture?", the visitor ID should not change when a user logs
        > on. It's the same visitor, on the same visit.
        >

        It doesn't. I guess this is hard to explain clearly. The issue is when
        generating *user* (as in registered user) statistics. Before the user logs
        in, there's no way for the system to know if it is a registered user (unless
        it recognizes the cookie, but many people clear their cookies regularly, in
        my experience). The only reason is is *possible* to associate the previous
        pageviews with the visitor's user id is because the visitor id doesn't
        change.

        >
        >
        > If your analytics solution allows you to set custom variables that can
        > be tied to the visit (e.g. eVars for Omniture), then all the pages
        > viewed in the course of the visit (even prior to logging in) are then
        > tied to the value in that visit expiring variable.
        >

        That's what I was asking. So Omniture can associate the earlier page views
        to the user, even though the user didn't log in until later in the visit?
        Can other tools do this? I'm assuming it is always a matter of
        customization, since user ids are always custom.

        I think the confusing thing about talking about this is "visitor" v. "user."
        Everybody is a visitor, not everybody is a user (a/k/a registered user or
        member).

        Thanks.

        Nick

        --
        Nick Arnett
        narnett@mccmedia. <mailto:narnett%40mccmedia.com> com
        Messages: 408-904-7198

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Scribner, Craig
        I ve only met one guy who actually did this. Omniture offers a pretty robust toolset, but breaking into its default system of what constitutes a unique visitor
        Message 3 of 9 , May 16, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          I've only met one guy who actually did this. Omniture offers a pretty robust toolset, but breaking into its default system of what constitutes a unique visitor (ie. unique cookie value), and splicing together visit and visitor data based on a login event took expertise that was way beyond Omniture's out of the box offerings.

          When he described to me the fact that they had created this ASI segment that would produce all of the conversion and pathing reports for these registered users as if they had never deleted their cookies along the way, I immediately guessed the name of the engineer he had worked with at Omniture, and I was right!

          It's a request that makes a lot of sense from a business standpoint, but it's not an easy thing to figure out and get right. It would be cool if somebody offered this as a standard piece of their analytics processing.


          From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick Arnett
          Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:57 AM
          To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [webanalytics] User tracking -- consolidating page views after login?


          For those of you who do metrics on sites where visitors can log in, I'm
          curious if the tools you use consolidate pre- and post-login page views?
          In case that isn't clear, here's the scenario. A visitor shows up,
          identified by a cookie or something similar, and views several pages. Then
          the visitor logs in; now they can be identified by an unambiguous user id.
          However, if you are doing sequential processing of those page views, you
          haven't associated the previous page views with the registered user. I'm
          wondering if it is common practice to associate the previous visitor id with
          the registered user, to get more a more complete picture?

          This doesn't matter if all of the metrics are based on a visitor id from a
          cookie or similar. But when the focus shifts to the patterns of registered
          uses, it become necessary to include pages viewed before the visitor logged
          in (and after, for that matter, though that seems to be less common).

          There's a flip side to this, too... the registered user who is using some
          sort of cookie "blocking" tool that makes them look like a new visitor at
          each page view... which become obvious after they log in and the same user
          id has a bunch of visitor ids.

          I haven't looked at a whole lot of data related to this yet, but I can see
          that either of these changes alters our visitor counts by small percentages.
          I'm more concerned about the first issue because it has a bigger effect on
          average pages per visit, time on site and such. Since behavior is different
          before and after logging in, this is a qualitative difference, compared with
          the effects on visitor and user counts, which I expect are quantitative and
          won't have much impact on trends.

          Are others looking at these issues much?

          Nick

          --
          Nick Arnett
          narnett@...<mailto:narnett%40mccmedia.com>
          Messages: 408-904-7198

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mbchoe
          isn t this relatively easy to do in sitecatalyst? create an eVar for tracking login_status (value = logged_in or null). once you set the eVar, you can view all
          Message 4 of 9 , May 16, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            isn't this relatively easy to do in sitecatalyst?

            create an eVar for tracking login_status (value = logged_in or null).
            once you set the eVar, you can view all metrics associated such as
            page views, product views, orders and other custom conversion events
            you wish to define...



            --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Scribner, Craig"
            <craig.scribner@...> wrote:
            >
            > I've only met one guy who actually did this. Omniture offers a
            pretty robust toolset, but breaking into its default system of what
            constitutes a unique visitor (ie. unique cookie value), and splicing
            together visit and visitor data based on a login event took expertise
            that was way beyond Omniture's out of the box offerings.
            >
            > When he described to me the fact that they had created this ASI
            segment that would produce all of the conversion and pathing reports
            for these registered users as if they had never deleted their cookies
            along the way, I immediately guessed the name of the engineer he had
            worked with at Omniture, and I was right!
            >
            > It's a request that makes a lot of sense from a business standpoint,
            but it's not an easy thing to figure out and get right. It would be
            cool if somebody offered this as a standard piece of their analytics
            processing.
            >
            >
            > From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick Arnett
            > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:57 AM
            > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [webanalytics] User tracking -- consolidating page views
            after login?
            >
            >
            > For those of you who do metrics on sites where visitors can log in, I'm
            > curious if the tools you use consolidate pre- and post-login page views?
            > In case that isn't clear, here's the scenario. A visitor shows up,
            > identified by a cookie or something similar, and views several
            pages. Then
            > the visitor logs in; now they can be identified by an unambiguous
            user id.
            > However, if you are doing sequential processing of those page views, you
            > haven't associated the previous page views with the registered user. I'm
            > wondering if it is common practice to associate the previous visitor
            id with
            > the registered user, to get more a more complete picture?
            >
            > This doesn't matter if all of the metrics are based on a visitor id
            from a
            > cookie or similar. But when the focus shifts to the patterns of
            registered
            > uses, it become necessary to include pages viewed before the visitor
            logged
            > in (and after, for that matter, though that seems to be less common).
            >
            > There's a flip side to this, too... the registered user who is using
            some
            > sort of cookie "blocking" tool that makes them look like a new
            visitor at
            > each page view... which become obvious after they log in and the
            same user
            > id has a bunch of visitor ids.
            >
            > I haven't looked at a whole lot of data related to this yet, but I
            can see
            > that either of these changes alters our visitor counts by small
            percentages.
            > I'm more concerned about the first issue because it has a bigger
            effect on
            > average pages per visit, time on site and such. Since behavior is
            different
            > before and after logging in, this is a qualitative difference,
            compared with
            > the effects on visitor and user counts, which I expect are
            quantitative and
            > won't have much impact on trends.
            >
            > Are others looking at these issues much?
            >
            > Nick
            >
            > --
            > Nick Arnett
            > narnett@...<mailto:narnett%40mccmedia.com>
            > Messages: 408-904-7198
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Scribner, Craig
            SiteCatalyst distinguishes visitors by the cookie ID it sets. The same person using on different browsers or different computers will count as different
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 9 12:08 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              SiteCatalyst distinguishes visitors by the cookie ID it sets. The same person using on different browsers or different computers will count as different individuals in SiteCatalyst, as will anybody that rejects or deletes the Omniture cookie.

              The eVar value won't help with that problem, but the situation I described below does.

              From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mbchoe
              Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 12:04 AM
              To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [webanalytics] Re: User tracking -- consolidating page views after login?


              isn't this relatively easy to do in sitecatalyst?

              create an eVar for tracking login_status (value = logged_in or null).
              once you set the eVar, you can view all metrics associated such as
              page views, product views, orders and other custom conversion events
              you wish to define...

              --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>, "Scribner, Craig"
              <craig.scribner@...> wrote:
              >
              > I've only met one guy who actually did this. Omniture offers a
              pretty robust toolset, but breaking into its default system of what
              constitutes a unique visitor (ie. unique cookie value), and splicing
              together visit and visitor data based on a login event took expertise
              that was way beyond Omniture's out of the box offerings.
              >
              > When he described to me the fact that they had created this ASI
              segment that would produce all of the conversion and pathing reports
              for these registered users as if they had never deleted their cookies
              along the way, I immediately guessed the name of the engineer he had
              worked with at Omniture, and I was right!
              >
              > It's a request that makes a lot of sense from a business standpoint,
              but it's not an easy thing to figure out and get right. It would be
              cool if somebody offered this as a standard piece of their analytics
              processing.
              >
              >
              > From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>
              [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Nick Arnett
              > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:57 AM
              > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com<mailto:webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: [webanalytics] User tracking -- consolidating page views
              after login?
              >
              >
              > For those of you who do metrics on sites where visitors can log in, I'm
              > curious if the tools you use consolidate pre- and post-login page views?
              > In case that isn't clear, here's the scenario. A visitor shows up,
              > identified by a cookie or something similar, and views several
              pages. Then
              > the visitor logs in; now they can be identified by an unambiguous
              user id.
              > However, if you are doing sequential processing of those page views, you
              > haven't associated the previous page views with the registered user. I'm
              > wondering if it is common practice to associate the previous visitor
              id with
              > the registered user, to get more a more complete picture?
              >
              > This doesn't matter if all of the metrics are based on a visitor id
              from a
              > cookie or similar. But when the focus shifts to the patterns of
              registered
              > uses, it become necessary to include pages viewed before the visitor
              logged
              > in (and after, for that matter, though that seems to be less common).
              >
              > There's a flip side to this, too... the registered user who is using
              some
              > sort of cookie "blocking" tool that makes them look like a new
              visitor at
              > each page view... which become obvious after they log in and the
              same user
              > id has a bunch of visitor ids.
              >
              > I haven't looked at a whole lot of data related to this yet, but I
              can see
              > that either of these changes alters our visitor counts by small
              percentages.
              > I'm more concerned about the first issue because it has a bigger
              effect on
              > average pages per visit, time on site and such. Since behavior is
              different
              > before and after logging in, this is a qualitative difference,
              compared with
              > the effects on visitor and user counts, which I expect are
              quantitative and
              > won't have much impact on trends.
              >
              > Are others looking at these issues much?
              >
              > Nick
              >
              > --
              > Nick Arnett
              > narnett@...<mailto:narnett%40mccmedia.com>
              > Messages: 408-904-7198
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.