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Pricing Structure

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  • Heather A [in CID] Clark
    Is it typical of vendors to base their pricing on a per visit or per hit basis, even when the solution is housed internally (rather than hosted by the vendor)?
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 16, 2005
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      Is it typical of vendors to base their pricing on a per visit or per hit basis, even when the solution is housed internally (rather than hosted by the vendor)? 
       
      This type of pricing makes no sense to me and I'm hoping someone can explain. If it was hosted by the vendor and the tool was making ongoing calls to their server, I could understand you'd be charged for bandwidth, ongoing maintenance, and wear and tear on their servers.
       
      However when purchased, installed, maintained, and hosted internally, it would seem to me to be a disincentive to grow your traffic (albeit a small one, and not a problem for most people), as well as give reason to not track some pages, set them up in a way to record less information or dump reports prematurely.
       
      So can anyone enlighten me on the reason it might be priced that way, or show me a list of vendors that includes pricing structure type for comparison purposes?
       
      TIA,
      Heather Clark
    • Jim Sterne
      The idea is value-based pricing . It used to be that software was priced based on the size of processor it ran on. Megabucks for the mainframe version,
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 16, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        The idea is "value-based pricing".
        It used to be that software was priced based on
        the size of processor it ran on. Megabucks for
        the mainframe version, minibucks for the mini
        version and microbucks for the PC.

        But then PC's started getting more powerful
        and so vendors started pricing by the number
        of seats - or people who used the software.
        In a large organization, you could have one
        person "use" the web analytics tool and send
        out reports to many... so.... value-based pricing.
        The more data you crunch the more you pay.
        The expectation is that the more data you crunch
        the more value you get out of the tool.

        At 12:47 PM 2/16/2005, Heather A [in CID] Clark wrote:
        Is it typical of vendors to base their pricing on a per visit or per hit basis, even when the solution is housed internally (rather than hosted by the vendor)? 
         
        This type of pricing makes no sense to me and I'm hoping someone can explain. If it was hosted by the vendor and the tool was making ongoing calls to their server, I could understand you'd be charged for bandwidth, ongoing maintenance, and wear and tear on their servers.
         
        However when purchased, installed, maintained, and hosted internally, it would seem to me to be a disincentive to grow your traffic (albeit a small one, and not a problem for most people), as well as give reason to not track some pages, set them up in a way to record less information or dump reports prematurely.
         
        So can anyone enlighten me on the reason it might be priced that way, or show me a list of vendors that includes pricing structure type for comparison purposes?
         
        TIA,
        Heather Clark



        ---------------------------------------
        Web Metrics Discussion Group
        Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
        Author, Web Analytics Demystified
        http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com



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      • Dave Wagner
        I seem to recall an early version of Webtrends was priced by the number of servers that could be analyzed. The basic license could crunch weblogs for two
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 16, 2005
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          I seem to recall an early version of Webtrends was priced by the number of servers that could be analyzed.  The basic license could crunch weblogs for two servers but beyond that you had to upgrade to the "enterprise" version

          At 09:07 PM 2/16/2005, you wrote:
          The idea is "value-based pricing".
          It used to be that software was priced based on
          the size of processor it ran on. Megabucks for
          the mainframe version, minibucks for the mini
          version and microbucks for the PC.

          But then PC's started getting more powerful
          and so vendors started pricing by the number
          of seats - or people who used the software.
          In a large organization, you could have one
          person "use" the web analytics tool and send
          out reports to many... so.... value-based pricing.
          The more data you crunch the more you pay.
          The expectation is that the more data you crunch
          the more value you get out of the tool.

          Dave Wagner
          Vice President, Marketing
          CommerSel Software, Inc.
          http://www.commersel.com
          dave@...
          >>> Network with professionals at: http://www.linkedin.com <<<




        • brian@omegadm.co.uk
          I only know of one vendor who has a license software price that includes a page view limit i.e. volume limit. We actually pick up a lot of clients because of
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 17, 2005
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            I only know of one vendor who has a license software price that
            includes a page view limit i.e. volume limit. We actually pick up
            a lot of clients because of it ;)


            >
            > Is it typicalofvendors tobase their pricingon a per visit or per hit
            > basis, even when the solution is housed internally (rather than hosted
            > by the vendor)?
            >
            > This type of pricing makes no sense to me and I'm hoping someone can
            > explain. If it was hosted by the vendor and the tool was
            > makingongoingcalls to their server, I could understand you'd be
            > charged for bandwidth, ongoing maintenance, and wear and tear on their
            > servers.
            >
            > However when purchased, installed, maintained,and hosted internally,it
            > would seem to me to be a disincentiveto grow your traffic (albeit a
            > small one, and not a problem for most people), as well as give reason to
            > not track some pages,set them up in a way to record less information or
            > dump reports prematurely.
            >
            > So can anyone enlighten me on the reason it might be priced that way, or
            > show me a list of vendors that includes pricing structure typefor
            > comparison purposes?
            >
            > TIA,
            > Heather Clark
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------------
            > Web Metrics Discussion Group
            > Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
            > Author, Web Analytics Demystified
            > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
            >
            >
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            >



            =============================================================
            Omega Digital Media Ltd

            I N T E G R A T E D ~ W E B ~ S O L U T I O N S

            Phone: +44 (0)1444 410202
            Fax: +44 (0)1444 456814

            http://www.omegadm.co.uk
            =============================================================
            Cuckfield House, High Street, Cuckfield, West Sussex RH17 5EL
          • wexler
            I actually asked a similar question in the early days of this group, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webanalytics/message/136. A vendor provided pricing for
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 17, 2005
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              I actually asked a similar question in the early days of this group,
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webanalytics/message/136. A vendor
              provided pricing for their product and required annual fees based on
              the amount of data we processed _on our servers_. (Please keep that
              in mind for this entire post: we are not talking about ASP models, nor
              the value of ASP vs. internal. This is just about how you pay for an
              internal hosted product.)

              We had the same concerns you had. The vendor responded that this
              model allowed them to offer "enterprise level features" to everyone,
              but the price, in effect, is based on scale of your organization. So,
              instead of having a "regular" and an "enterprise" version with
              different feature sets, the provide the same basic set of advanced
              features to everyone, small and large, but you pay based on "ability":
              They believe that volume on site correlates with size of wallet.

              Not one of our clients has bought into that argument, since they
              factor in cost of hardware maintenance, support, and os/database
              licenses as part of the price of the product, and expect that to cover
              volume-oriented costs; the see no point in the vendor trying to price
              based on that. The usual comparison our clients make, unaided, is
              "Will Word start charging me per page I print or create?"

              (This is not completely uncommon in other industries; Oracle has, at
              various times, priced based on estimated volumes (by limiting size of
              tables for different versions), number of connections (lite versions
              will not allow more than X connections), "power units" which reflect
              CPUs and speed, and just plain CPU count. In each case, the code is
              basically the same code, but you (legally) are to pay based on what
              type of work you are using the software for; beefier boxes would
              require more money. But there is a big difference (or big perceived
              difference) between foundation software (Oracle, OS, etc.) and
              application software (Web analysis app, etc.))

              Others may have different opinions, but we have yet to see a pricing
              structure for an internal web analysis app based on volume which works
              for any the industries I assist. My clients seem to prefer the
              "enterprise version, unfettered" approach to internal apps (when they
              choose internal over ASPs). That being said, I don't hear any of the
              volume based companies going out of business, so for some people, it
              must be right way to purchase.




              --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Heather A [in CID] Clark"
              <heatheraclark@a...> wrote:
              > Is it typical of vendors to base their pricing on a per visit or per hit
              > basis, even when the solution is housed internally (rather than hosted
              > by the vendor)?
              >
              > This type of pricing makes no sense to me and I'm hoping someone can
              > explain. If it was hosted by the vendor and the tool was making ongoing
              > calls to their server, I could understand you'd be charged for
              > bandwidth, ongoing maintenance, and wear and tear on their servers.
              >
              > However when purchased, installed, maintained, and hosted internally,
              > it would seem to me to be a disincentive to grow your traffic (albeit a
              > small one, and not a problem for most people), as well as give reason to
              > not track some pages, set them up in a way to record less information or
              > dump reports prematurely.
              >
              > So can anyone enlighten me on the reason it might be priced that way,
              > or show me a list of vendors that includes pricing structure type for
              > comparison purposes?
              >
              > TIA,
              > Heather Clark
            • brian@omegadm.co.uk
              Sounds like PPC software to me. I really don t like the idea. ... ============================================================= Omega Digital Media Ltd I N T
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 17, 2005
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                Sounds like 'PPC software' to me. I really don't like the idea.



                >
                >
                > I actually asked a similar question in the early days of this group,
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webanalytics/message/136. A vendor
                > provided pricing for their product and required annual fees based on
                > the amount of data we processed _on our servers_. (Please keep that
                > in mind for this entire post: we are not talking about ASP models, nor
                > the value of ASP vs. internal. This is just about how you pay for an
                > internal hosted product.)
                >
                > We had the same concerns you had. The vendor responded that this
                > model allowed them to offer "enterprise level features" to everyone,
                > but the price, in effect, is based on scale of your organization. So,
                > instead of having a "regular" and an "enterprise" version with
                > different feature sets, the provide the same basic set of advanced
                > features to everyone, small and large, but you pay based on "ability":
                > They believe that volume on site correlates with size of wallet.
                >
                > Not one of our clients has bought into that argument, since they
                > factor in cost of hardware maintenance, support, and os/database
                > licenses as part of the price of the product, and expect that to cover
                > volume-oriented costs; the see no point in the vendor trying to price
                > based on that. The usual comparison our clients make, unaided, is
                > "Will Word start charging me per page I print or create?"
                >
                > (This is not completely uncommon in other industries; Oracle has, at
                > various times, priced based on estimated volumes (by limiting size of
                > tables for different versions), number of connections (lite versions
                > will not allow more than X connections), "power units" which reflect
                > CPUs and speed, and just plain CPU count. In each case, the code is
                > basically the same code, but you (legally) are to pay based on what
                > type of work you are using the software for; beefier boxes would
                > require more money. But there is a big difference (or big perceived
                > difference) between foundation software (Oracle, OS, etc.) and
                > application software (Web analysis app, etc.))
                >
                > Others may have different opinions, but we have yet to see a pricing
                > structure for an internal web analysis app based on volume which works
                > for any the industries I assist. My clients seem to prefer the
                > "enterprise version, unfettered" approach to internal apps (when they
                > choose internal over ASPs). That being said, I don't hear any of the
                > volume based companies going out of business, so for some people, it
                > must be right way to purchase.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Heather A [in CID] Clark"
                > <heatheraclark@a...> wrote:
                > > Is it typical of vendors to base their pricing on a per visit or per hit
                > > basis, even when the solution is housed internally (rather than hosted
                > > by the vendor)?
                > >
                > > This type of pricing makes no sense to me and I'm hoping someone can
                > > explain. If it was hosted by the vendor and the tool was making ongoing
                > > calls to their server, I could understand you'd be charged for
                > > bandwidth, ongoing maintenance, and wear and tear on their servers.
                > >
                > > However when purchased, installed, maintained, and hosted internally,
                > > it would seem to me to be a disincentive to grow your traffic (albeit a
                > > small one, and not a problem for most people), as well as give reason to
                > > not track some pages, set them up in a way to record less information or
                > > dump reports prematurely.
                > >
                > > So can anyone enlighten me on the reason it might be priced that way,
                > > or show me a list of vendors that includes pricing structure type for
                > > comparison purposes?
                > >
                > > TIA,
                > > Heather Clark
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------------
                > Web Metrics Discussion Group
                > Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
                > Author, Web Analytics Demystified
                > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >



                =============================================================
                Omega Digital Media Ltd

                I N T E G R A T E D ~ W E B ~ S O L U T I O N S

                Phone: +44 (0)1444 410202
                Fax: +44 (0)1444 456814

                http://www.omegadm.co.uk
                =============================================================
                Cuckfield House, High Street, Cuckfield, West Sussex RH17 5EL
              • Jeff Seacrist
                Ah, but MS Word DOES charge by user, do they not? Thus, big companies with lots of employees pay much more for Word/Office than do small businesses. Same
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 17, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Ah, but MS Word DOES charge by user, do they not? Thus, big companies with
                  lots of employees pay much more for Word/Office than do small businesses.
                  Same functionality. The company has to buy the hardware. Where does MS get
                  off charging certain companies more for the same software? And yet, it does
                  make sense, doesn't it?

                  Let's turn to web analytics. Some companies charge based on web servers.
                  Some charge on domains. Some charge on users. Some charge for additional
                  functionality (and, by the way, typically have their entry-level products
                  "cap-out" on some element to send the larger customers to the larger, more
                  expensive product). Some charge on profiles. Some charge on page views.
                  Liken it to Oracle power units if you will, but the reality is that
                  virtually EVERY software application in existence (beyond WA even) has an
                  element of scale associated with determining the price. For many, it's by
                  user. Why charge more for more users? Because the organization is getting
                  more value (as eloquently stated by Jim Sterne).

                  But here's the difference between licensed software vs. ASP -- with licensed
                  software, the price you pay may be dependent upon your scale, but once you
                  license it, it is perpetual. You do not need to continue to pay
                  year-over-year. The scaling is merely used to determine the initial price
                  point. Sure, as the scaling element grows (e.g., add more users, more
                  profiles, or whatever the scaling element is) you may owe more licensing
                  fees. But to the extent that your usage remains within the range of your
                  initial license, there are no additional license fees. With ASP, you keep
                  paying each year.

                  Don't be fooled by vendors who claim not to scale just because they don't
                  scale based on page views. They ALL scale. Any vendor that charges every
                  company EXACTLY the same price regardless of ANY of the elements I
                  identified above is free to respond and prove me wrong. More than likely,
                  if there is one, it's because they only offer a small-scale, desktop
                  application. But even then, if you wanted to run it on two desktops, you
                  pay for two licenses.

                  If anybody wants to discuss the WebTrends software licensing model in more
                  detail (yes, we are the ones who scale based on page views), I'd be happy to
                  have any conversations offline so as to not bog down the group. Or I'm
                  happy to provide more details here if that is the desire of the group.

                  Jeff Seacrist
                  WebTrends

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: wexler [mailto:wexler@...]
                  Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 7:19 AM
                  To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Pricing Structure



                  I actually asked a similar question in the early days of this group,
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webanalytics/message/136. A vendor
                  provided pricing for their product and required annual fees based on
                  the amount of data we processed _on our servers_. (Please keep that
                  in mind for this entire post: we are not talking about ASP models, nor
                  the value of ASP vs. internal. This is just about how you pay for an
                  internal hosted product.)

                  We had the same concerns you had. The vendor responded that this
                  model allowed them to offer "enterprise level features" to everyone,
                  but the price, in effect, is based on scale of your organization. So,
                  instead of having a "regular" and an "enterprise" version with
                  different feature sets, the provide the same basic set of advanced
                  features to everyone, small and large, but you pay based on "ability":
                  They believe that volume on site correlates with size of wallet.

                  Not one of our clients has bought into that argument, since they
                  factor in cost of hardware maintenance, support, and os/database
                  licenses as part of the price of the product, and expect that to cover
                  volume-oriented costs; the see no point in the vendor trying to price
                  based on that. The usual comparison our clients make, unaided, is
                  "Will Word start charging me per page I print or create?"

                  (This is not completely uncommon in other industries; Oracle has, at
                  various times, priced based on estimated volumes (by limiting size of
                  tables for different versions), number of connections (lite versions
                  will not allow more than X connections), "power units" which reflect
                  CPUs and speed, and just plain CPU count. In each case, the code is
                  basically the same code, but you (legally) are to pay based on what
                  type of work you are using the software for; beefier boxes would
                  require more money. But there is a big difference (or big perceived
                  difference) between foundation software (Oracle, OS, etc.) and
                  application software (Web analysis app, etc.))

                  Others may have different opinions, but we have yet to see a pricing
                  structure for an internal web analysis app based on volume which works
                  for any the industries I assist. My clients seem to prefer the
                  "enterprise version, unfettered" approach to internal apps (when they
                  choose internal over ASPs). That being said, I don't hear any of the
                  volume based companies going out of business, so for some people, it
                  must be right way to purchase.




                  --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Heather A [in CID] Clark"
                  <heatheraclark@a...> wrote:
                  > Is it typical of vendors to base their pricing on a per visit or per hit
                  > basis, even when the solution is housed internally (rather than hosted
                  > by the vendor)?
                  >
                  > This type of pricing makes no sense to me and I'm hoping someone can
                  > explain. If it was hosted by the vendor and the tool was making ongoing
                  > calls to their server, I could understand you'd be charged for
                  > bandwidth, ongoing maintenance, and wear and tear on their servers.
                  >
                  > However when purchased, installed, maintained, and hosted internally,
                  > it would seem to me to be a disincentive to grow your traffic (albeit a
                  > small one, and not a problem for most people), as well as give reason to
                  > not track some pages, set them up in a way to record less information or
                  > dump reports prematurely.
                  >
                  > So can anyone enlighten me on the reason it might be priced that way,
                  > or show me a list of vendors that includes pricing structure type for
                  > comparison purposes?
                  >
                  > TIA,
                  > Heather Clark






                  ---------------------------------------
                  Web Metrics Discussion Group
                  Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
                  Author, Web Analytics Demystified
                  http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • brian@omegadm.co.uk
                  I don t think there is any issue about selling software based on scale. A dual processor server license being more expensive than a desktop PC etc. I just
                  Message 8 of 8 , Feb 17, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I don't think there is any issue about selling software based on
                    scale. A dual processor 'server' license being more expensive
                    than a desktop PC etc. I just don't like PPC software, whatever
                    the justification - that's not a slur on the WT product.

                    To me its like buying a printer and being charged for each
                    printed page, or buying a PC and being charged per minute online.
                    Sure, it happens, but I don't think people like it.

                    Maybe we can take a poll on the principal of it (Eric?)

                    Of course if you give your printing requirements to an outsourced
                    company and they then come and collect, process and deliver it
                    back, then PPC seems a perfect charging solution.

                    I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I would be
                    interested in a poll though...

                    >
                    > Ah, but MS Word DOES charge by user, do they not? Thus, big companies with
                    > lots of employees pay much more for Word/Office than do small businesses.
                    > Same functionality. The company has to buy the hardware. Where does MS get
                    > off charging certain companies more for the same software? And yet, it does
                    > make sense, doesn't it?
                    >
                    > Let's turn to web analytics. Some companies charge based on web servers.
                    > Some charge on domains. Some charge on users. Some charge for additional
                    > functionality (and, by the way, typically have their entry-level products
                    > "cap-out" on some element to send the larger customers to the larger, more
                    > expensive product). Some charge on profiles. Some charge on page views.
                    > Liken it to Oracle power units if you will, but the reality is that
                    > virtually EVERY software application in existence (beyond WA even) has an
                    > element of scale associated with determining the price. For many, it's by
                    > user. Why charge more for more users? Because the organization is getting
                    > more value (as eloquently stated by Jim Sterne).
                    >
                    > But here's the difference between licensed software vs. ASP -- with licensed
                    > software, the price you pay may be dependent upon your scale, but once you
                    > license it, it is perpetual. You do not need to continue to pay
                    > year-over-year. The scaling is merely used to determine the initial price
                    > point. Sure, as the scaling element grows (e.g., add more users, more
                    > profiles, or whatever the scaling element is) you may owe more licensing
                    > fees. But to the extent that your usage remains within the range of your
                    > initial license, there are no additional license fees. With ASP, you keep
                    > paying each year.
                    >
                    > Don't be fooled by vendors who claim not to scale just because they don't
                    > scale based on page views. They ALL scale. Any vendor that charges every
                    > company EXACTLY the same price regardless of ANY of the elements I
                    > identified above is free to respond and prove me wrong. More than likely,
                    > if there is one, it's because they only offer a small-scale, desktop
                    > application. But even then, if you wanted to run it on two desktops, you
                    > pay for two licenses.
                    >
                    > If anybody wants to discuss the WebTrends software licensing model in more
                    > detail (yes, we are the ones who scale based on page views), I'd be happy to
                    > have any conversations offline so as to not bog down the group. Or I'm
                    > happy to provide more details here if that is the desire of the group.
                    >
                    > Jeff Seacrist
                    > WebTrends
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: wexler [mailto:wexler@...]
                    > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 7:19 AM
                    > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Pricing Structure
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I actually asked a similar question in the early days of this group,
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webanalytics/message/136. A vendor
                    > provided pricing for their product and required annual fees based on
                    > the amount of data we processed _on our servers_. (Please keep that
                    > in mind for this entire post: we are not talking about ASP models, nor
                    > the value of ASP vs. internal. This is just about how you pay for an
                    > internal hosted product.)
                    >
                    > We had the same concerns you had. The vendor responded that this
                    > model allowed them to offer "enterprise level features" to everyone,
                    > but the price, in effect, is based on scale of your organization. So,
                    > instead of having a "regular" and an "enterprise" version with
                    > different feature sets, the provide the same basic set of advanced
                    > features to everyone, small and large, but you pay based on "ability":
                    > They believe that volume on site correlates with size of wallet.
                    >
                    > Not one of our clients has bought into that argument, since they
                    > factor in cost of hardware maintenance, support, and os/database
                    > licenses as part of the price of the product, and expect that to cover
                    > volume-oriented costs; the see no point in the vendor trying to price
                    > based on that. The usual comparison our clients make, unaided, is
                    > "Will Word start charging me per page I print or create?"
                    >
                    > (This is not completely uncommon in other industries; Oracle has, at
                    > various times, priced based on estimated volumes (by limiting size of
                    > tables for different versions), number of connections (lite versions
                    > will not allow more than X connections), "power units" which reflect
                    > CPUs and speed, and just plain CPU count. In each case, the code is
                    > basically the same code, but you (legally) are to pay based on what
                    > type of work you are using the software for; beefier boxes would
                    > require more money. But there is a big difference (or big perceived
                    > difference) between foundation software (Oracle, OS, etc.) and
                    > application software (Web analysis app, etc.))
                    >
                    > Others may have different opinions, but we have yet to see a pricing
                    > structure for an internal web analysis app based on volume which works
                    > for any the industries I assist. My clients seem to prefer the
                    > "enterprise version, unfettered" approach to internal apps (when they
                    > choose internal over ASPs). That being said, I don't hear any of the
                    > volume based companies going out of business, so for some people, it
                    > must be right way to purchase.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Heather A [in CID] Clark"
                    > <heatheraclark@a...> wrote:
                    > > Is it typical of vendors to base their pricing on a per visit or per hit
                    > > basis, even when the solution is housed internally (rather than hosted
                    > > by the vendor)?
                    > >
                    > > This type of pricing makes no sense to me and I'm hoping someone can
                    > > explain. If it was hosted by the vendor and the tool was making ongoing
                    > > calls to their server, I could understand you'd be charged for
                    > > bandwidth, ongoing maintenance, and wear and tear on their servers.
                    > >
                    > > However when purchased, installed, maintained, and hosted internally,
                    > > it would seem to me to be a disincentive to grow your traffic (albeit a
                    > > small one, and not a problem for most people), as well as give reason to
                    > > not track some pages, set them up in a way to record less information or
                    > > dump reports prematurely.
                    > >
                    > > So can anyone enlighten me on the reason it might be priced that way,
                    > > or show me a list of vendors that includes pricing structure type for
                    > > comparison purposes?
                    > >
                    > > TIA,
                    > > Heather Clark
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------------
                    > Web Metrics Discussion Group
                    > Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
                    > Author, Web Analytics Demystified
                    > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------------
                    > Web Metrics Discussion Group
                    > Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
                    > Author, Web Analytics Demystified
                    > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >



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