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Re: Unique Visitors more than Visits? -- Omniture

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  • madhu
    Hi Jills//Andy, As I mentioned in my previous message that visits can be counted by non cookied system also but I was wrong in saying that. I just browsed
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 2, 2007
      Hi Jills//Andy,



      As I mentioned in my previous message that visits can be counted by
      non cookied system also but I was wrong in saying that. I just
      browsed omniture help and got the exact reply to that. It is written
      on omniture as
      "
      Occasionally, some sites may show a higher number of daily unique
      visitors than visits for the same day. The Visit Metric relies
      exclusively on browsers that allow Omniture's third-party cookie to
      be set, which is the most accurate way to determine whether a
      visitor is unique or not. A noncookied user cannot be counted as a
      visit because SiteCatalyst cannot place a cookie on their browser,
      but SiteCatalyst still counts them as a daily unique visitor based
      on IP address and user agent string. Additionally, if a visitor that
      does not support cookies obtains multiple IP addresses within a
      single hour, the visitor may be counted multiple times. If the
      cookie cannot be set, or if the user has blocked all cookies,
      SiteCatalyst uses a combination of IP address and user agent string
      to determine if the visitor is new or not. In these cases,
      SiteCatalyst may count visitors who do not support cookies as
      multiple unique visitors, which inflates the unique visitor count."

      Hope that clarifies.

      Regards,
      Madhu





      --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Jills Matthew"
      <test.export@...> wrote:
      >
      > Andy,
      >
      > I think this is due to some cookie issue. Some browsers will not
      allow to
      > set the cookie on their machine and this makes Omniture to
      consider each
      > visiotrs as independent and unique.
      >
      > Regards
      > Jills
      >
      > On 11/2/07, Paul Holstein <paul@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > It could be a timing issue, but it definitely sounds like a
      bug. I'd
      > > call them.
      > >
      > > --Paul
      > >
      > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com <webanalytics%
      40yahoogroups.com>,
      > > "Andy Wang" <andysnews@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I am looking into my Omniture reporting and saw that unique
      visitors
      > > were
      > > > more than visits. How could this be? Any thoughts on this
      subject?
      > > >
      > > > Thank you,
      > > >
      > > > Andy
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • rcalentine
      Andy, This is due to a cookie issue. If a visitor blocks a third or first party cookie, Omniture will not count the visit but will count as a unique visitor.
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 2, 2007
        Andy,

        This is due to a cookie issue. If a visitor blocks a third or first
        party cookie, Omniture will not count the visit but will count as a
        unique visitor. This how unique visitors can be more than visits.
        What I would suggest doing is going to the Monthly Unique Visitor
        report and clicking on Persistent Cookies and that number should be
        less than visits.

        Richard



        --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Jills Matthew" <test.export@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Andy,
        >
        > I think this is due to some cookie issue. Some browsers will not
        allow to
        > set the cookie on their machine and this makes Omniture to consider each
        > visiotrs as independent and unique.
        >
        > Regards
        > Jills
        >
        > On 11/2/07, Paul Holstein <paul@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > It could be a timing issue, but it definitely sounds like a bug. I'd
        > > call them.
        > >
        > > --Paul
        > >
        > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com <webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > "Andy Wang" <andysnews@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I am looking into my Omniture reporting and saw that unique visitors
        > > were
        > > > more than visits. How could this be? Any thoughts on this subject?
        > > >
        > > > Thank you,
        > > >
        > > > Andy
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Paul Holstein
        I love how Omniture says The Visit Metric relies exclusively on browsers that allow Omniture s third-party cookies to be set... As if that s OK with them.
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 2, 2007
          I love how Omniture says "The Visit Metric relies exclusively on
          browsers that allow Omniture's third-party cookies to be set..."

          As if that's OK with them. As if there is no other way to count a
          visit. As if no other vendor has figured out how to make this work.

          If they use alternative means to measure a unique visitor, then they
          can use the same means to measure a visit. Their response is
          baffling.

          I find their acceptance of this problem to be a real cop-out and
          pretty much unacceptable.

          --Paul


          --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "madhu" <madhugambhir@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Jills//Andy,
          >
          >
          >
          > As I mentioned in my previous message that visits can be counted by
          > non cookied system also but I was wrong in saying that. I just
          > browsed omniture help and got the exact reply to that. It is
          written
          > on omniture as
          > "
          > Occasionally, some sites may show a higher number of daily unique
          > visitors than visits for the same day. The Visit Metric relies
          > exclusively on browsers that allow Omniture's third-party cookie to
          > be set, which is the most accurate way to determine whether a
          > visitor is unique or not. A noncookied user cannot be counted as a
          > visit because SiteCatalyst cannot place a cookie on their browser,
          > but SiteCatalyst still counts them as a daily unique visitor based
          > on IP address and user agent string. Additionally, if a visitor
          that
          > does not support cookies obtains multiple IP addresses within a
          > single hour, the visitor may be counted multiple times. If the
          > cookie cannot be set, or if the user has blocked all cookies,
          > SiteCatalyst uses a combination of IP address and user agent string
          > to determine if the visitor is new or not. In these cases,
          > SiteCatalyst may count visitors who do not support cookies as
          > multiple unique visitors, which inflates the unique visitor count."
          >
          > Hope that clarifies.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Madhu
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Jills Matthew"
          > <test.export@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Andy,
          > >
          > > I think this is due to some cookie issue. Some browsers will not
          > allow to
          > > set the cookie on their machine and this makes Omniture to
          > consider each
          > > visiotrs as independent and unique.
          > >
          > > Regards
          > > Jills
          > >
          > > On 11/2/07, Paul Holstein <paul@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > It could be a timing issue, but it definitely sounds like a
          > bug. I'd
          > > > call them.
          > > >
          > > > --Paul
          > > >
          > > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com <webanalytics%
          > 40yahoogroups.com>,
          > > > "Andy Wang" <andysnews@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > I am looking into my Omniture reporting and saw that unique
          > visitors
          > > > were
          > > > > more than visits. How could this be? Any thoughts on this
          > subject?
          > > > >
          > > > > Thank you,
          > > > >
          > > > > Andy
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
        • dhs1986@comcast.net
          Just thinking out loud here, but if they were to do that (in other words, add +1 visit to the site-level total every time someone with cookies disabled enters
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 2, 2007
            Just thinking out loud here, but if they were to do that (in other words, add +1 visit to the site-level total every time someone with cookies disabled enters the site), what would be the impact on the referring domain, time spent calculations, pathing, and other related reports that rely on visit/session data?

            Is there any way to determine what % of your site-level Omniture-reported unique visitor counts are derived from IP addresses and/or user agent strings vs. cookies?

            Thanks,
            David

            -------------- Original message --------------
            From: "Paul Holstein" <paul@...>
            I love how Omniture says "The Visit Metric relies exclusively on
            browsers that allow Omniture's third-party cookies to be set..."

            As if that's OK with them. As if there is no other way to count a
            visit. As if no other vendor has figured out how to make this work.

            If they use alternative means to measure a unique visitor, then they
            can use the same means to measure a visit. Their response is
            baffling.

            I find their acceptance of this problem to be a real cop-out and
            pretty much unacceptable.

            --Paul

            --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "madhu" <madhugambhir@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Jills//Andy,
            >
            >
            >
            > As I mentioned in my previous message that visits can be counted by
            > non cookied system also but I was wrong in saying that. I just
            > browsed omniture help and got the exact reply to that. It is
            written
            > on omniture as
            > "
            > Occasionally, some sites may show a higher number of daily unique
            > visitors than visits for the same day. The Visit Metric relies
            > exclusively on browsers that allow Omniture's third-party cookie to
            > be set, which is the most accurate way to determine whether a
            > visitor is unique or not. A noncookied user cannot be counted as a
            > visit because SiteCatalyst cannot place a cookie on their browser,
            > but SiteCatalyst still counts them as a daily unique visitor based
            > on IP address and user agent string. Additionally, if a visitor
            that
            > does not support cookies obtains multiple IP addresses within a
            > single hour, the visitor may be counted multiple times. If the
            > cookie cannot be set, or if the user has blocked all cookies,
            > SiteCatalyst uses a combination of IP address and user agent string
            > to determine if the visitor is new or not. In these cases,
            > SiteCatalyst may count visitors who do not support cookies as
            > multiple unique visitors, which inflates the unique visitor count."
            >
            > Hope that clarifies.
            >
            > Regards,
            > Madhu
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Jills Matthew"
            > <test.export@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Andy,
            > >
            > > I think this is due to some cookie issue. Some browsers will not
            > allow to
            > > set the cookie on their machine and this makes Omniture to
            > consider each
            > > visiotrs as independent and unique.
            > >
            > > Regards
            > > Jills
            > >
            > > On 11/2/07, Paul Holstein <paul@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > It could be a timing issue, but it definitely sounds like a
            > bug. I'd
            > > > call them.
            > > >
            > > > --Paul
            > > >
            > > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com <webanalytics%
            > 40yahoogroups.com>,
            > > > "Andy Wang" <andysnews@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > I am looking into my Omniture reporting and saw that unique
            > visitors
            > > > were
            > > > > more than visits. How could this be? Any thoughts on this
            > subject?
            > > > >
            > > > > Thank you,
            > > > >
            > > > > Andy
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Andy Wang
            Thanks everyone for your reply. I do agree with Paul in that they should use the same means to measure a visit, or at least somehow separate out the
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 2, 2007
              Thanks everyone for your reply.

              I do agree with Paul in that they should use the same means to measure a
              visit, or at least somehow separate out the non-cookied users so that we can
              more accurately understand what is happening here.

              I also have another question on campaign tracking... will post that in a
              few.

              Thanks again.

              -- Andy


              On 11/2/07, Paul Holstein <paul@...> wrote:
              >
              > I love how Omniture says "The Visit Metric relies exclusively on
              > browsers that allow Omniture's third-party cookies to be set..."
              >
              > As if that's OK with them. As if there is no other way to count a
              > visit. As if no other vendor has figured out how to make this work.
              >
              > If they use alternative means to measure a unique visitor, then they
              > can use the same means to measure a visit. Their response is
              > baffling.
              >
              > I find their acceptance of this problem to be a real cop-out and
              > pretty much unacceptable.
              >
              > --Paul
              >
              > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com <webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > "madhu" <madhugambhir@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Jills//Andy,
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > As I mentioned in my previous message that visits can be counted by
              > > non cookied system also but I was wrong in saying that. I just
              > > browsed omniture help and got the exact reply to that. It is
              > written
              > > on omniture as
              > > "
              > > Occasionally, some sites may show a higher number of daily unique
              > > visitors than visits for the same day. The Visit Metric relies
              > > exclusively on browsers that allow Omniture's third-party cookie to
              > > be set, which is the most accurate way to determine whether a
              > > visitor is unique or not. A noncookied user cannot be counted as a
              > > visit because SiteCatalyst cannot place a cookie on their browser,
              > > but SiteCatalyst still counts them as a daily unique visitor based
              > > on IP address and user agent string. Additionally, if a visitor
              > that
              > > does not support cookies obtains multiple IP addresses within a
              > > single hour, the visitor may be counted multiple times. If the
              > > cookie cannot be set, or if the user has blocked all cookies,
              > > SiteCatalyst uses a combination of IP address and user agent string
              > > to determine if the visitor is new or not. In these cases,
              > > SiteCatalyst may count visitors who do not support cookies as
              > > multiple unique visitors, which inflates the unique visitor count."
              > >
              > > Hope that clarifies.
              > >
              > > Regards,
              > > Madhu
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com <webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > "Jills Matthew"
              > > <test.export@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Andy,
              > > >
              > > > I think this is due to some cookie issue. Some browsers will not
              > > allow to
              > > > set the cookie on their machine and this makes Omniture to
              > > consider each
              > > > visiotrs as independent and unique.
              > > >
              > > > Regards
              > > > Jills
              > > >
              > > > On 11/2/07, Paul Holstein <paul@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > It could be a timing issue, but it definitely sounds like a
              > > bug. I'd
              > > > > call them.
              > > > >
              > > > > --Paul
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com <webanalytics%40yahoogroups.com><webanalytics%
              > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
              > > > > "Andy Wang" <andysnews@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I am looking into my Omniture reporting and saw that unique
              > > visitors
              > > > > were
              > > > > > more than visits. How could this be? Any thoughts on this
              > > subject?
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Thank you,
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Andy
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nick Arnett
              ... I was about to write something similar... How can they count people as unique visitors if there s no cookie? What s unique about them??? Unless
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 2, 2007
                On 11/2/07, Paul Holstein <paul@...> wrote:
                >
                > I love how Omniture says "The Visit Metric relies exclusively on
                > browsers that allow Omniture's third-party cookies to be set..."
                >
                > As if that's OK with them. As if there is no other way to count a
                > visit. As if no other vendor has figured out how to make this work.
                >
                > If they use alternative means to measure a unique visitor, then they
                > can use the same means to measure a visit. Their response is
                > baffling.
                >
                > I find their acceptance of this problem to be a real cop-out and
                > pretty much unacceptable.
                >









                I was about to write something similar... How can they count people as
                unique visitors if there's no cookie? What's "unique" about them??? Unless
                everyone with cookies blocked visits exactly one page, they're vastly
                overcounting visitors.

                Nick

                --
                Nick Arnett
                narnett@...
                Messages: 408-904-7198


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • David Yoakum
                Omniture SiteCatalyst tracks non-cookied users by IP address and user agent string, but only in the unique visitor reports. That is not a very accurate way
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 5, 2007
                  Omniture SiteCatalyst tracks non-cookied users by IP address and user
                  agent string, but only in the "unique visitor" reports. That is not a
                  very accurate way of tracking the uniqueness of a visitor, so that is
                  why they exclude them from the normal visit count. The number of
                  visits that do not allow a persistent cookie is usually pretty small.
                  You can see how many visits to your site do not allow this by going to
                  the daily unique visits report and clicking "persistent cookie filter"
                  to see the unique visits with persistent cookies. Our site, like most
                  ecommerce sites, require persistent cookies for the shopping bag to
                  work, so that is OK with us.




                  >
                  > I was about to write something similar... How can they count people as
                  > unique visitors if there's no cookie? What's "unique" about them???
                  Unless
                  > everyone with cookies blocked visits exactly one page, they're vastly
                  > overcounting visitors.
                  >
                  > Nick
                  >
                • Scribner, Craig (Web Analytics and Testin
                  Has anybody mentioned Omniture s attempt to address this situation? I think it came out with version 12 a couple of years back, where if you run a Traffic --
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 7, 2007
                    Has anybody mentioned Omniture's attempt to address this situation? I
                    think it came out with version 12 a couple of years back, where if you
                    run a Traffic --> Daily Unique Visitors report (or Weekly, or Monthly,
                    or Yearly), you get to toggle on or off the IP+user agent string count.
                    You don't get that same luxury in your breakdown reports, which is maybe
                    what all the ruckuss is about. Also you don't get it in Discover.



                    ________________________________

                    From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of David Yoakum
                    Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 5:47 PM
                    To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Unique Visitors more than Visits? --
                    Omniture



                    Omniture SiteCatalyst tracks non-cookied users by IP address and user
                    agent string, but only in the "unique visitor" reports. That is not a
                    very accurate way of tracking the uniqueness of a visitor, so that is
                    why they exclude them from the normal visit count. The number of
                    visits that do not allow a persistent cookie is usually pretty small.
                    You can see how many visits to your site do not allow this by going to
                    the daily unique visits report and clicking "persistent cookie filter"
                    to see the unique visits with persistent cookies. Our site, like most
                    ecommerce sites, require persistent cookies for the shopping bag to
                    work, so that is OK with us.

                    >
                    > I was about to write something similar... How can they count people as
                    > unique visitors if there's no cookie? What's "unique" about them???
                    Unless
                    > everyone with cookies blocked visits exactly one page, they're vastly
                    > overcounting visitors.
                    >
                    > Nick
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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