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Uniques by city....HBX

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  • thomascarrillo84
    I am looking at uniques by city for a pariticular client in HBX. Every month Atlanta, Dallas, and New Jersey are in the top 10 in terms of uniques. However,
    Message 1 of 7 , May 1, 2007
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      I am looking at uniques by city for a pariticular client in HBX. Every
      month Atlanta, Dallas, and New Jersey are in the top 10 in terms of
      uniques. However, these are not any of their core markets, and no
      advertising is done in those areas (offline, or online). Is this ISP
      issue? I can't seem to figure it out. Any help is appreciated.
      Thanks.
    • Hawe, Kieran
      My guess would be that this is where the ISP hub is located for your targeted clients. For example, visitors from my office located in Norwalk, CT show up in
      Message 2 of 7 , May 2, 2007
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        My guess would be that this is where the ISP hub is located for your
        targeted clients. For example, visitors from my office located in
        Norwalk, CT show up in HBX as New Hyde Park, NY because that is where
        our ISP hub is located.


        Kieran John Hawe
        Senior Manager, Digital Strategy & CRM | Vertrue, Inc.
        kieran.hawe@... | P - 203.674.7136 | F -203.674.7080
        20 Glover Avenue, Norwalk, CT 06850
        www.vertrue.com <http://www.vertrue.com/> | NASDAQ - VTRU


        ________________________________

        From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of thomascarrillo84
        Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:23 PM
        To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [webanalytics] Uniques by city....HBX



        I am looking at uniques by city for a pariticular client in HBX. Every
        month Atlanta, Dallas, and New Jersey are in the top 10 in terms of
        uniques. However, these are not any of their core markets, and no
        advertising is done in those areas (offline, or online). Is this ISP
        issue? I can't seem to figure it out. Any help is appreciated.
        Thanks.






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Brendan Butterworth
        There are several different ways that Web Analytics tools get the geographic location of a user. The technologies that I am aware of are all based on the
        Message 3 of 7 , May 2, 2007
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          There are several different ways that Web Analytics tools get the
          geographic location of a user. The technologies that I am aware of
          are all based on the users IP address, and are as follows:

          RDNS (the DNS record of the IP address is examined, and the country
          code is used)
          ARIN/RIPE/APNIC lookup (the owner of the IP address is looked up at
          one of the IP registries)
          Geo-location Service (http://www.ip2location.com/,
          http://www.quova.com/, http://www.maxmind.com/, etc)

          RDNS is considered the least precise, with the least coverage. But
          it's free and easy to do. ARIN/RIPE/APNIC and so forth is precise to
          an address, but this address may not be accurate (all AOL owned IP
          addresses have AOLs Virginia address as the owner). The various
          geo-location services have a variety of technologies and staff that
          work to keep both precision and accuracy high, but since the internet
          isn't a stable environment updates are constantly needed.

          Contact your HBX account rep and ask how they're getting geographic
          information. Ask them how often it's updated, and whether you get
          those updates. From the details provided so far, it sounds like
          they're getting information from ARIN - you can check North American
          IPs here:

          http://www.arin.net/whois

          Enjoy!

          /brendan.

          On 5/2/07, Hawe, Kieran <kieran.hawe@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > My guess would be that this is where the ISP hub is located for your
          > targeted clients. For example, visitors from my office located in
          > Norwalk, CT show up in HBX as New Hyde Park, NY because that is where
          > our ISP hub is located.
          >
          >
          > Kieran John Hawe
          > Senior Manager, Digital Strategy & CRM | Vertrue, Inc.
          > kieran.hawe@... | P - 203.674.7136 | F -203.674.7080
          > 20 Glover Avenue, Norwalk, CT 06850
          > www.vertrue.com <http://www.vertrue.com/> | NASDAQ - VTRU
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          >
          > From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com]
          > On Behalf Of thomascarrillo84
          > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:23 PM
          > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [webanalytics] Uniques by city....HBX
          >
          > I am looking at uniques by city for a pariticular client in HBX. Every
          > month Atlanta, Dallas, and New Jersey are in the top 10 in terms of
          > uniques. However, these are not any of their core markets, and no
          > advertising is done in those areas (offline, or online). Is this ISP
          > issue? I can't seem to figure it out. Any help is appreciated.
          > Thanks.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
        • alec_cochrane
          Ditto - my office is in South London, but we appear as coming from Manchester in HBX. Offices are especially troublesome with their ISP locations not
          Message 4 of 7 , May 3, 2007
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            Ditto - my office is in South London, but we appear as coming from
            Manchester in HBX. Offices are especially troublesome with their ISP
            locations not necessarily being where the office is, but then so are
            the major ISP for homes - AOL famously all come out of one location in
            the US (is it Virginia? - Does that still actually happen?).

            I think the question you need to ask yourself is: If you could find
            out what city your visitors are in, what would you do about it? And
            if the answer is 'nothing' then you probably don't need to know. If
            the answer is 'change your marketing strategy' you'll need to come up
            with some other clever way of finding out their location. Maybe you
            could ask them (or some of them). Or use a site comparison tool like
            Hitwise.

            Alec

            --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Hawe, Kieran" <kieran.hawe@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > My guess would be that this is where the ISP hub is located for your
            > targeted clients. For example, visitors from my office located in
            > Norwalk, CT show up in HBX as New Hyde Park, NY because that is where
            > our ISP hub is located.
            >
            >
            > Kieran John Hawe
            > Senior Manager, Digital Strategy & CRM | Vertrue, Inc.
            > kieran.hawe@... | P - 203.674.7136 | F -203.674.7080
            > 20 Glover Avenue, Norwalk, CT 06850
            > www.vertrue.com <http://www.vertrue.com/> | NASDAQ - VTRU
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            >
            > From: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:webanalytics@yahoogroups.com]
            > On Behalf Of thomascarrillo84
            > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 1:23 PM
            > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [webanalytics] Uniques by city....HBX
            >
            >
            >
            > I am looking at uniques by city for a pariticular client in HBX. Every
            > month Atlanta, Dallas, and New Jersey are in the top 10 in terms of
            > uniques. However, these are not any of their core markets, and no
            > advertising is done in those areas (offline, or online). Is this ISP
            > issue? I can't seem to figure it out. Any help is appreciated.
            > Thanks.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Steve
            To add an additional method that I ve used with moderate success in doing forensics/auditing work: Use tools like traceroute from multiple locations and work
            Message 5 of 7 , May 6, 2007
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              To add an additional method that I've used with moderate success in
              doing forensics/auditing work:

              Use tools like traceroute from multiple locations and work out the
              location that-a-way.
              It may not help with the last hop, or any behind firewall ones, but
              can give a Clue. The various backbone routers you bounce through often
              are named after their physical/geographical city/state.
              eg. Most geo location tools report my (previous) home ip being ~
              1200km away. But if traceroute'd and understand Australian city
              shorthand, can easily see which city in fact.


              The flip side is that this is pretty intensive and probably not useful
              for analytics.

              Cheers!

              - Steve


              On 5/3/07, Brendan Butterworth <brenbutterworth@...> wrote:
              > There are several different ways that Web Analytics tools get the
              > geographic location of a user. The technologies that I am aware of
              > are all based on the users IP address, and are as follows:
              >
              > RDNS (the DNS record of the IP address is examined, and the country
              > code is used)
              > ARIN/RIPE/APNIC lookup (the owner of the IP address is looked up at
              > one of the IP registries)
              > Geo-location Service (http://www.ip2location.com/,
              > http://www.quova.com/, http://www.maxmind.com/, etc)
              >
              > RDNS is considered the least precise, with the least coverage. But
              > it's free and easy to do. ARIN/RIPE/APNIC and so forth is precise to
              > an address, but this address may not be accurate (all AOL owned IP
              > addresses have AOLs Virginia address as the owner). The various
              > geo-location services have a variety of technologies and staff that
              > work to keep both precision and accuracy high, but since the internet
              > isn't a stable environment updates are constantly needed.
              >
              > Contact your HBX account rep and ask how they're getting geographic
              > information. Ask them how often it's updated, and whether you get
              > those updates. From the details provided so far, it sounds like
              > they're getting information from ARIN - you can check North American
              > IPs here:
              >
              > http://www.arin.net/whois
            • Brendan Butterworth
              As I understand it, the method that Steve has outlined is one of the methods used by Geo-Location services. It makes much more sense to do this manual work if
              Message 6 of 7 , May 7, 2007
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                As I understand it, the method that Steve has outlined is one of the
                methods used by Geo-Location services. It makes much more sense to do
                this manual work if you're selling the data and making good coin from
                it :)

                From the "Quova" pages:

                Quova determines the Internet Protocol domain through which the
                website visitor is connecting to the Web. Quova maps the 1.4 billion
                IP addresses on the Internet using a combination of technology –
                including proprietary algorithms and a worldwide network of servers –
                and high-level human research analysis. We collect the data in a
                proprietary database and continuously process it to improve the
                accuracy.

                http://www.quova.com/page.php?id=106

                Other than the painful "Internet Protocol domain" (which I hope means
                "IP Address" in some strange marketing dialect), the paragraph is
                pretty clear that they do use humans.

                /brendan.

                On 5/6/07, Steve <nuilvows@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > To add an additional method that I've used with moderate success in
                > doing forensics/auditing work:
                >
                > Use tools like traceroute from multiple locations and work out the
                > location that-a-way.
                > It may not help with the last hop, or any behind firewall ones, but
                > can give a Clue. The various backbone routers you bounce through often
                > are named after their physical/geographical city/state.
                > eg. Most geo location tools report my (previous) home ip being ~
                > 1200km away. But if traceroute'd and understand Australian city
                > shorthand, can easily see which city in fact.
                >
                > The flip side is that this is pretty intensive and probably not useful
                > for analytics.
                >
                > Cheers!
                >
                > - Steve
                >
                > On 5/3/07, Brendan Butterworth <brenbutterworth@...> wrote:
                > > There are several different ways that Web Analytics tools get the
                > > geographic location of a user. The technologies that I am aware of
                > > are all based on the users IP address, and are as follows:
                > >
                > > RDNS (the DNS record of the IP address is examined, and the country
                > > code is used)
                > > ARIN/RIPE/APNIC lookup (the owner of the IP address is looked up at
                > > one of the IP registries)
                > > Geo-location Service (http://www.ip2location.com/,
                > > http://www.quova.com/, http://www.maxmind.com/, etc)
                > >
                > > RDNS is considered the least precise, with the least coverage. But
                > > it's free and easy to do. ARIN/RIPE/APNIC and so forth is precise to
                > > an address, but this address may not be accurate (all AOL owned IP
                > > addresses have AOLs Virginia address as the owner). The various
                > > geo-location services have a variety of technologies and staff that
                > > work to keep both precision and accuracy high, but since the internet
                > > isn't a stable environment updates are constantly needed.
                > >
                > > Contact your HBX account rep and ask how they're getting geographic
                > > information. Ask them how often it's updated, and whether you get
                > > those updates. From the details provided so far, it sounds like
                > > they're getting information from ARIN - you can check North American
                > > IPs here:
                > >
                > > http://www.arin.net/whois
              • Steve
                ... And have trained monkeys (ie. PhD s in Network Computing) vs overpaid & expensive analytics pro s to do it for you. ;-) I ve also had some success simply
                Message 7 of 7 , May 8, 2007
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                  On 5/8/07, Brendan Butterworth <brenbutterworth@...> wrote:
                  > As I understand it, the method that Steve has outlined is one of the
                  > methods used by Geo-Location services. It makes much more sense to do
                  > this manual work if you're selling the data and making good coin from
                  > it :)


                  And have trained monkeys (ie. PhD's in Network Computing) vs overpaid
                  & expensive analytics pro's to do it for you.
                  ;-)

                  I've also had some success simply contacting ISP's and asking. Should
                  have put that in originally - didn't occur to me at the time.
                  Usually that's along the lines of needing to know the range of IP
                  addresses I'm likely to get assigned when using dialup etc. So as to
                  allow the firewall(s) at workplaces etc to be opened for special
                  assignments.

                  But I imagine that approached correctly and legitimately, many would
                  divulge the info.

                  Cheers!

                  - Steve
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