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Compete Introduces Attention Statistics

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  • aquent_recruiter
    I wanted to share this announcement and get topline thoughts from some of the experts here. It sounds like an interesting analytics innovation. *** [from
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 3, 2007
      I wanted to share this announcement and get topline thoughts from some
      of the experts here. It sounds like an interesting analytics innovation.

      ***

      [from http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/compete_attention_metrics.php%5d

      "In an attempt to go beyond page views and visits, today web stats
      company Compete introduced "Attention metrics". The reason is that
      interactive Web page technologies such as Ajax and Flash - not to
      mention online video - are making simple page views and visits
      increasingly outdated. With Ajax for example, information on a webpage
      can be updated without needing to refresh the page. In order to get
      around these issues, Compete has introduced two specific attention
      metrics:

      * Attention: The total time spent on a site as a percentage of the
      total time spent online by all U.S. internet users
      * Velocity: The relative change in daily Attention; velocity is used
      to determine the relative growth of a website compared to other sites

      The move is aimed at marketing people, to help them find
      "high-potential advertising sites"."
    • ju2ltd
      Whats the position of the people at Comscore, Nielsen/Netratings and the IAB on this issue. I believe that the IAB have a group discussing similar challenges.
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 3, 2007
        Whats the position of the people at Comscore, Nielsen/Netratings and
        the IAB on this issue. I believe that the IAB have a group discussing
        similar challenges. Will they produce a consensus around metrics such
        as these?

        Jim.

        --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "aquent_recruiter"
        <jgardner@...> wrote:
        >
        > I wanted to share this announcement and get topline thoughts from
        some
        > of the experts here. It sounds like an interesting analytics
        innovation.
        >
        > ***
        >
        > [from
        http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/compete_attention_metrics.php%5d
        >
        > "In an attempt to go beyond page views and visits, today web stats
        > company Compete introduced "Attention metrics". The reason is that
        > interactive Web page technologies such as Ajax and Flash - not to
        > mention online video - are making simple page views and visits
        > increasingly outdated. With Ajax for example, information on a
        webpage
        > can be updated without needing to refresh the page. In order to get
        > around these issues, Compete has introduced two specific attention
        > metrics:
        >
        > * Attention: The total time spent on a site as a percentage of the
        > total time spent online by all U.S. internet users
        > * Velocity: The relative change in daily Attention; velocity is used
        > to determine the relative growth of a website compared to other
        sites
        >
        > The move is aimed at marketing people, to help them find
        > "high-potential advertising sites"."
        >
      • Judah Phillips
        Ahh: *Disclosure: Compete is a current Read/WriteWeb sponsor. * ** It s forward thinking for sure and deserves a high five, but irrelevant to me. I also pity
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 3, 2007
          Ahh:

          "*Disclosure: Compete is a current Read/WriteWeb sponsor."*
          **
          It's forward thinking for sure and deserves a high five, but irrelevant to
          me. I also pity the media buyer and agency that has to correlate toolbar
          data collection with real data collection methods.
          **
          I am able to and have been able to easily and *accurately* calculate
          Compete's notion of "attention" and "velocity" too, using simple log data
          and external data points on Internet usage across whatever geography I
          want.

          So this means little (to me) other than a public confirmation of what web
          analytics practioners have known and been thinking about for some time...

          Judah


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Joe Wilson
          I don t see this as irrelevant at all. While I agree that it isn t revolutionary, one of the biggest problems in online advertising is comparability. In
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 3, 2007
            I don't see this as irrelevant at all. While I agree that it isn't revolutionary, one of the biggest problems in online advertising is comparability. In fact, even more than 10 years into this business, the post earlier today about ROI measurement shows that we are *still* unable to measure many basic metrics in an standard way.

            If defining and publishing attention metrics across sites brings us a step closer to a modicum of comparability in the world of Ajax, Flash and video, then I think they are doing the industry a service.

            Joe
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Judah Phillips <judahphillips@...>
            To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:17:14 PM
            Subject: [webanalytics] Re:Compete Introduces Attention Statistics

            Ahh:

            "*Disclosure: Compete is a current Read/WriteWeb sponsor."*
            **
            It's forward thinking for sure and deserves a high five, but irrelevant to
            me. I also pity the media buyer and agency that has to correlate toolbar
            data collection with real data collection methods.
            **
            I am able to and have been able to easily and *accurately* calculate
            Compete's notion of "attention" and "velocity" too, using simple log data
            and external data points on Internet usage across whatever geography I
            want.

            So this means little (to me) other than a public confirmation of what web
            analytics practioners have known and been thinking about for some time...

            Judah


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ---------------------------------------
            The Web Analytics Forum
            Founded by Eric T. Peterson (www.webanalyticsdemystified.com)
            Moderated by the Web Analytics Association (www.webanalyticsassociation.org)
            Email moderators at: webanalytics-moderators@yahoogroups.com
            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Stephane Hamel
            I think merely tying attention to be an equivalence for time is fundamentally biased. It doesn t convey the type of attention being spent on the activity
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 3, 2007
              I think merely tying "attention" to be an equivalence for "time" is
              fundamentally biased. It doesn't convey the type of attention being
              spent on the activity (the web site): is it front of mind or back of
              mind (listen to Pandora or watch YouTube)? Is it voluntary attention
              or a task I have to accomplish even if I don't like it (online
              taxes!)? Am I attracted or averse to the site?. The next thing will
              hear (read) is we need to better qualify "attention".

              Incidentally, I've been talking on my blog about the notion of
              Attention Economy applied to web analytics. In the coming weeks I will
              be working with the folks of The Attention Company (www.attnco.com) to
              push the concept a bit further. Check out
              http://blog.immeria.net/search/label/Attention%20Economy for details.

              S.Hamel
              http://blog.immeria.net

              --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, Joe Wilson <joe.wilson@...> wrote:
              >
              > I don't see this as irrelevant at all. While I agree that it isn't
              revolutionary, one of the biggest problems in online advertising is
              comparability. In fact, even more than 10 years into this business,
              the post earlier today about ROI measurement shows that we are *still*
              unable to measure many basic metrics in an standard way.
              >
              > If defining and publishing attention metrics across sites brings us
              a step closer to a modicum of comparability in the world of Ajax,
              Flash and video, then I think they are doing the industry a service.
              >
              > Joe
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Judah Phillips <judahphillips@...>
              > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:17:14 PM
              > Subject: [webanalytics] Re:Compete Introduces Attention Statistics
              >
              > Ahh:
              >
              > "*Disclosure: Compete is a current Read/WriteWeb sponsor."*
              > **
              > It's forward thinking for sure and deserves a high five, but
              irrelevant to
              > me. I also pity the media buyer and agency that has to correlate
              toolbar
              > data collection with real data collection methods.
              > **
              > I am able to and have been able to easily and *accurately* calculate
              > Compete's notion of "attention" and "velocity" too, using simple log
              data
              > and external data points on Internet usage across whatever geography I
              > want.
              >
              > So this means little (to me) other than a public confirmation of
              what web
              > analytics practioners have known and been thinking about for some
              time...
              >
              > Judah
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------------
              > The Web Analytics Forum
              > Founded by Eric T. Peterson (www.webanalyticsdemystified.com)
              > Moderated by the Web Analytics Association
              (www.webanalyticsassociation.org)
              > Email moderators at: webanalytics-moderators@yahoogroups.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
            • Judah Phillips
              Hi Joe, I respect Compete and where you are coming from.... Am I correct in claiming your perspective is external to a site, from the perspective of a vendor
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 3, 2007
                Hi Joe,

                I respect Compete and where you are coming from.... Am I correct in claiming
                your perspective is external to a site, from the perspective of a vendor
                developing ad serving technology (Tacoda, right?). Internally, from the
                perspective of Web Analytics practitioner with a heavy BI focus and as
                someone who deals with odd questions about inaccurate, noisy data from every
                source everywhere all the time, this is irrelevant to my day-to-day. Again,
                if anyone asks, I already know this data and derivatives. It is great food
                for thought, and "cool;" however irrelevant (to me) and I guess relevant (to
                the industry). If it sells more ads on my sites, then I it's great free
                data. Time will tell.

                If an advertiser desires to know "velocity," "attention," "velocittention,"
                or even "attentiocity" about my sites based on inspiration from Compete data
                or whatever is required, my stellar sales people can ask and receive the
                truth. "The truth is out there" in log files and has been reconcilable for
                a long time. If the ad industry needs motivation to adopt this thinking, I
                would hope the catalyst would be the consumer sentiment/demand, open source,
                AJAX, google, and the CAGR for online ad spend (>20%!) through 2011.

                Best,
                Judah


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Joe Wilson
                Judah, You are partly correct - I do work for TACODA and so my perspective is across a broad range of sites, but I don t believe that my perspective is
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 3, 2007
                  Judah,

                  You are partly correct - I do work for TACODA and so my perspective is across a broad range of sites, but I don't believe that my perspective is significantly skewed because we are an ad network. Even back in the dark ages of online advertising (1996) when I was at washingtonpost.com, I was a vocal and active proponent of building consensus across sites on standards (measurement and otherwise). I simply think this is the right way for this to happen. And to be clear, whether or not Compete provides the data *is* irrelevant, it is the definition itself that is important - or perhaps, more fundamentally, the act of proposing a definition.

                  It's probably easiest to show this with an example. While I fully appreciate the fact that your work is focused on serving an internal constituency, at least some part of your organization is outwardly focused (i.e. ad sales, marketing, etc). In the absence of a company (in this case, Compete) putting a stake in the ground and saying, I am measuring the following thing and calling it "attention", the advertiser you mention wouldn't have been able to ask for it and almost certainly wouldn't have known the proper algorithm to explain it.

                  I guess my point is really this, Compete's announcement is relevant if for no other reason than that it adds to the discussions by proposing a definition. Now we can discuss whether their definition is the right one or not. Without their announcement, we couldn't even do that.

                  Regards,

                  Joe
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Judah Phillips <judahphillips@...>
                  To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:25:47 PM
                  Subject: [webanalytics] Re: Compete Introduces Attention Statistics

                  Hi Joe,

                  I respect Compete and where you are coming from.... Am I correct in claiming
                  your perspective is external to a site, from the perspective of a vendor
                  developing ad serving technology (Tacoda, right?). Internally, from the
                  perspective of Web Analytics practitioner with a heavy BI focus and as
                  someone who deals with odd questions about inaccurate, noisy data from every
                  source everywhere all the time, this is irrelevant to my day-to-day. Again,
                  if anyone asks, I already know this data and derivatives. It is great food
                  for thought, and "cool;" however irrelevant (to me) and I guess relevant (to
                  the industry). If it sells more ads on my sites, then I it's great free
                  data. Time will tell.

                  If an advertiser desires to know "velocity," "attention," "velocittention,"
                  or even "attentiocity" about my sites based on inspiration from Compete data
                  or whatever is required, my stellar sales people can ask and receive the
                  truth. "The truth is out there" in log files and has been reconcilable for
                  a long time. If the ad industry needs motivation to adopt this thinking, I
                  would hope the catalyst would be the consumer sentiment/demand, open source,
                  AJAX, google, and the CAGR for online ad spend (>20%!) through 2011.

                  Best,
                  Judah


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  ---------------------------------------
                  The Web Analytics Forum
                  Founded by Eric T. Peterson (www.webanalyticsdemystified.com)
                  Moderated by the Web Analytics Association (www.webanalyticsassociation.org)
                  Email moderators at: webanalytics-moderators@yahoogroups.com
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Judah Phillips
                  Joe, Absolutely agree. Those who know me know I closely follow the w3c from working drafts forward, like XMLHttpRequest, just for fun. Standards, I believe,
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 4, 2007
                    Joe,

                    Absolutely agree. Those who know me know I closely follow the w3c
                    from working drafts forward, like XMLHttpRequest, just for fun. Standards,
                    I believe, will lead us into the light - whether the plug is 120/240. I
                    don't think your perspective is skewed at all, it's just different than mine
                    right now on this topic. I should add that I have been and always will be a
                    Debian at heart, if that says anything to you about my belief in standards.

                    I just think these definitions for Web Analytics are best cast
                    from Standards bodies, like the WAA's Standards Committee. You may
                    occasionally hear my voice pipe in on those busy calls.

                    Wouldn't it be even cooler if Compete joined the WAA and wanted to talk
                    about "attention" with the WAA's Standards committee? They'd sure have
                    their *real* "attention." We could give 'em Mr Hamel's paper and a copy of
                    Davenport's The Attention Economy for "velocity." Talk about log file
                    analysis for "accuracy."

                    Maybe we could all work on Standard WA Schema or something relevant (to
                    me) like that.

                    8^)

                    Best,
                    Judah


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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