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Re: [webanalytics] Digest Number 166

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  • Scott Crosby
    Those that offer both log and tag analysis include (at least): - Webtrends - Urchin - Nettracker - Deepmetrix - Clicktracks I believe each has the option in
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 7, 2005
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      Those that offer both log and tag analysis include (at least):

      - Webtrends
      - Urchin
      - Nettracker
      - Deepmetrix
      - Clicktracks

      I believe each has the option in some fashion (using asp or software) of
      using logs+tags, just logs, or just tags, since each approach has
      advantages. Customers who prefer the software approach might as well get
      log stuff like bandwidth, 'bots, and hits.

      - Scott Crosby
      VP Sales, Urchin




      >
      > There are 14 messages in this issue.
      >
      > Topics in this digest:
      >
      > 1. tagging and log analysis
      > From: brian@...
      > 2. RE: European timeline
      > From: "Marcos Richardson" <marcos.richardson@...>
      > 3. RE: European timeline
      > From: "Katja Graaf" <katja.graaf@...>
      > 4. Re: tagging and log analysis
      > From: Dave Wagner <dave@...>
      > 5. RE: tagging and log analysis
      > From: Michael Horn <mhorn@...>
      > 6. Re: Which web optimization event do you recommend for 2005
      > From: Jim Sterne <jsterne@...>
      > 7. RE: tagging and log analysis
      > From: celia rexselin <rexselin@...>
      > 8. RE: tagging and log analysis
      > From: Jim Sterne <jsterne@...>
      > 9. RE: tagging and log analysis
      > From: Matt Belkin <mbelkin@...>
      > 10. Re: tagging and log analysis
      > From: "Fred Kuu" <fkuu325@...>
      > 11. Re: tagging and log analysis
      > From: "mlillig2002" <mlillig2002@...>
      > 12. Re: tagging and log analysis
      > From: "Chris Grant" <chrisgrantaa@...>
      > 13. Re: tagging and log analysis
      > From: "Chris Grant" <chrisgrantaa@...>
      > 14. Re: Re: tagging and log analysis
      > From: Jason Grigsby <jason-yahoo@...>
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 1
      > Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 14:33:27 -0000
      > From: brian@...
      > Subject: tagging and log analysis
      >
      > No I don't wish to start a debate on which is better...
      >
      > I just wish to get an idea of the number of vendors that offer
      > both as a combined solution i.e. not separate services.
      >
      > Are their many vendors doing this, or is it a simple either or
      > split?
      >
      > Best regards, Brian
      >
      > =============================================================
      > Omega Digital Media Ltd
      >
      > I N T E G R A T E D ~ W E B ~ S O L U T I O N S
      >
      > Phone: +44 (0)1444 410202
      > Fax: +44 (0)1444 456814
      >
      > http://www.omegadm.co.uk
      > =============================================================
      > Cuckfield House, High Street, Cuckfield, West Sussex RH17 5EL
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 2
      > Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 15:14:57 -0000
      > From: "Marcos Richardson" <marcos.richardson@...>
      > Subject: RE: European timeline
      >
      >
      > Hi Brian,
      >
      > Sitestats.com USA 1995 rebranded and technically developed for Europe as
      > WebtraffIQ (www.webtraffiq.com)Date of Incorporation: 26/11/2001
      >
      >
      > Regards
      >
      > Marcos W. Richardson
      > European Director
      >
      > 93 Barker Dr.
      > London
      > NW1 0JG
      >
      > Tel: 0207 6810187
      > http://www.webtraffiq.com
      > marcos.richardson@...
      >
      >
      > 'advanced analytic applications for solving business problems'
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: brian@... [mailto:brian@...]
      > Sent: 05 January 2005 13:47
      > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [webanalytics] European timeline
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi guys
      >
      > Eric has asked me to spearhead the European version of the
      > 'History of Web Measurement' timeline that he published recently.
      >
      > If anyone would like to send me details of European vendor birth
      > dates and key innovations I would be grateful - please post to me
      > personally in the first instance (not functionality lists!)
      >
      > Please add to the list of European vendors I have so far:
      >
      > DOB UK vendors
      > ---- -----------
      > ? sawmill.co.uk
      > Dec 1999 speed-trap.com
      > ? Webabacus.co.uk
      > 1999 clickstream.com
      > ? site-intelligence.co.uk
      >
      > Others
      > ------
      > 1996 nedstat.com (Netherlands)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > =============================================================
      > Omega Digital Media Ltd
      >
      > I N T E G R A T E D ~ W E B ~ S O L U T I O N S
      >
      > Phone: +44 (0)1444 410202
      > Fax: +44 (0)1444 456814
      >
      > http://www.omegadm.co.uk
      > =============================================================
      > Cuckfield House, High Street, Cuckfield, West Sussex RH17 5EL
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------------
      > Web Metrics Discussion Group
      > Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      > Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 3
      > Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 15:16:45 +0100
      > From: "Katja Graaf" <katja.graaf@...>
      > Subject: RE: European timeline
      >
      >
      > HI Brian,
      >
      > Let me introduce myself briefly: I work at Moniforce (as a e-business
      > consultant), a Dutch company active in both markets of web analytics and
      > web availability & performance. Moniforce was founded May 2001. Since 2003
      > we are active in Belgium and last year, we congratulated our first German
      > clients. The solutions we offer are based on either network sniffing or page
      > tagging. Key innovations:
      >
      > * Q2 2002: introduction of our network sniffing tool: reporting on
      > availability & performance data
      > * Q2 2003: extension to our network sniffing tool with reporting on
      > web analytics (combined with performance & availability data) and
      > introduction of new interface which is completely OLAP-based (which allows
      > users to browse thru the data itself iso just viewing 'static' reports)
      > * Q3 2004: introduction of page tagging measurement method for
      > collecting web analytics data
      > * Q4 2004: extension to our network sniffing tool: content sniffing.
      > This allows for measuring actual content on web pages (eg keyword from
      > internal search functionality, composition of shopping cart etc) as opposed
      > to 'just'' measuring http headers
      >
      > Having said this, could you add our comapny to the European history-slide?
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Katja Graaf
      > E-business consultant
      > Moniforce
      > The Netherlands
      >
      > www.moniforce.com
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
      > Van: brian@... [mailto:brian@...]
      > Verzonden: woensdag 5 januari 2005 14:47
      > Aan: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
      > Onderwerp: [webanalytics] European timeline
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi guys
      >
      > Eric has asked me to spearhead the European version of the
      > 'History of Web Measurement' timeline that he published recently.
      >
      > If anyone would like to send me details of European vendor birth
      > dates and key innovations I would be grateful - please post to me
      > personally in the first instance (not functionality lists!)
      >
      > Please add to the list of European vendors I have so far:
      >
      > DOB UK vendors
      > ---- -----------
      > ? sawmill.co.uk
      > Dec 1999 speed-trap.com
      > ? Webabacus.co.uk
      > 1999 clickstream.com
      > ? site-intelligence.co.uk
      >
      > Others
      > ------
      > 1996 nedstat.com (Netherlands)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > =============================================================
      > Omega Digital Media Ltd
      >
      > I N T E G R A T E D ~ W E B ~ S O L U T I O N S
      >
      > Phone: +44 (0)1444 410202
      > Fax: +44 (0)1444 456814
      >
      > http://www.omegadm.co.uk
      > =============================================================
      > Cuckfield House, High Street, Cuckfield, West Sussex RH17 5EL
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------------
      > Web Metrics Discussion Group
      > Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      > Author, Web Analytics Demystified http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 4
      > Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 07:18:25 -0800
      > From: Dave Wagner <dave@...>
      > Subject: Re: tagging and log analysis
      >
      > Honestly, I don't think one technique is generally better than the
      > other. Page tagging is invaluable for certain types of analysis that can
      > be foreseen ahead of time. Log analysis is often what most folks are doing
      > though, so when we talk about growing trends in page tagging it would be
      > interesting to define the parameters of the trend. For example, is page
      > tagging the dominant technique among e-businesses that have an organized
      > web analytics effort?
      >
      > At 06:33 AM 1/6/2005, you wrote:
      >> No I don't wish to start a debate on which is better...
      >>
      >> I just wish to get an idea of the number of vendors that offer
      >> both as a combined solution i.e. not separate services.
      >>
      >> Are their many vendors doing this, or is it a simple either or
      >> split?
      >>
      >> Best regards, Brian
      >>
      >> =============================================================
      >> Omega Digital Media Ltd
      >
      > Dave Wagner
      > Vice President, Marketing
      > CommerSel Software, Inc.
      > http://www.commersel.com
      > dave@...
      >>>> Network with professionals at: http://www.linkedin.com <<<
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [This message contained attachments]
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 5
      > Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:02:37 -0500
      > From: Michael Horn <mhorn@...>
      > Subject: RE: tagging and log analysis
      >
      > For a number of reasons, we rely on multiple methodologies --
      > tagging for pages, log analysis for streaming media, panels for
      > audience and demographic/consumer behaviors, and qualitative
      > methods (inbound mail, focus groups, user testing) to inform
      > design and development.
      >
      > Each method is better or worse at certain things, but no method
      > could ever accomplish all of our needs. Each has at least one
      > significant blind spot or bias.
      >
      > Just as we never have enough analysis time, we'll never have
      > enough sources of data!
      >
      > Michael
      >
      > Michael D. Horn | npr online analyst | mhorn@... | 202.513.2458
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Dave Wagner [mailto:dave@...]
      > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 10:18 AM
      > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [webanalytics] tagging and log analysis
      >
      >
      > Honestly, I don't think one technique is generally better than the other.
      > Page tagging is invaluable for certain types of analysis that can be
      > foreseen ahead of time. Log analysis is often what most folks are doing
      > though, so when we talk about growing trends in page tagging it would be
      > interesting to define the parameters of the trend. For example, is page
      > tagging the dominant technique among e-businesses that have an organized web
      > analytics effort?
      >
      > At 06:33 AM 1/6/2005, you wrote:
      >
      >
      > No I don't wish to start a debate on which is better...
      >
      > I just wish to get an idea of the number of vendors that offer
      > both as a combined solution i.e. not separate services.
      >
      > Are their many vendors doing this, or is it a simple either or
      > split?
      >
      > Best regards, Brian
      >
      > =============================================================
      > Omega Digital Media Ltd
      >
      > Dave Wagner
      > Vice President, Marketing
      > CommerSel Software, Inc.
      > http://www.commersel.com <http://www.commersel.com/>
      > dave@...
      >>>> Network with professionals at: http://www.linkedin.com
      > <http://www.linkedin.com/> <<<
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------------
      > Web Metrics Discussion Group
      > Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      > Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      > <http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webanalytics/
      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webanalytics/>
      >
      >
      > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > webanalytics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:webanalytics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
      >
      >
      > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
      > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [This message contained attachments]
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 6
      > Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 00:24:07 -0800
      > From: Jim Sterne <jsterne@...>
      > Subject: Re: Which web optimization event do you recommend for 2005
      >
      > At 03:46 PM 1/5/2005, Eric Peterson wrote:
      >
      >> I strongly recommend Emetrics in either Santa Barbara or London in
      >> June. Mr. Sterne might be too modest to say so but
      >
      > Me? Modest?
      > Never!
      >
      > It's just that you always beat me to the punch and I'm
      > always grateful!
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------
      > Jim Sterne http://www.targeting.com
      > ========================================
      > Emetrics Summit http://www.emetrics.org/summit605
      > Santa Barbara, June 1 - 3 Web Analytics Conference
      > London, June 8-10 +1-805-965-3184
      >
      >
      >
      > [This message contained attachments]
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 7
      > Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 09:27:14 -0800 (PST)
      > From: celia rexselin <rexselin@...>
      > Subject: RE: tagging and log analysis
      >
      >
      > Hi there ,
      > QUOTE
      > {Each method is better or worse at certain things, but
      > no method
      > could ever accomplish all of our needs}
      >
      > I am a web developer who joined this group yesterday.
      > I am indeed working on a web analytic product(livemon)
      > that does log file processing.I have always wondered
      > what and all a webmaster/hosting provider look for in
      > a web analytic other than the usual traffic
      > analysis,browsing patterns,search engine
      > segmentation,downloads,hits,broken links reports.
      >
      > Your words seem to say that you are looking for
      > something more information that none of the web
      > analytic products now have.after all, NECCESSITY is
      > the mother of all INVENTION. Can I please know what
      > else you are looking for?
      >
      > Regards,
      > Celia.
      >
      > --- Michael Horn <mhorn@...> wrote:
      >
      >> For a number of reasons, we rely on multiple
      >> methodologies --
      >> tagging for pages, log analysis for streaming media,
      >> panels for
      >> audience and demographic/consumer behaviors, and
      >> qualitative
      >> methods (inbound mail, focus groups, user testing)
      >> to inform
      >> design and development.
      >>
      >> Each method is better or worse at certain things,
      >> but no method
      >> could ever accomplish all of our needs. Each has at
      >> least one
      >> significant blind spot or bias.
      >>
      >> Just as we never have enough analysis time, we'll
      >> never have
      >> enough sources of data!
      >>
      >> Michael
      >>
      >> Michael D. Horn | npr online analyst | mhorn@...
      >> | 202.513.2458
      >>
      >> -----Original Message-----
      >> From: Dave Wagner [mailto:dave@...]
      >> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 10:18 AM
      >> To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
      >> Subject: Re: [webanalytics] tagging and log analysis
      >>
      >>
      >> Honestly, I don't think one technique is generally
      >> better than the other.
      >> Page tagging is invaluable for certain types of
      >> analysis that can be
      >> foreseen ahead of time. Log analysis is often what
      >> most folks are doing
      >> though, so when we talk about growing trends in page
      >> tagging it would be
      >> interesting to define the parameters of the trend.
      >> For example, is page
      >> tagging the dominant technique among e-businesses
      >> that have an organized web
      >> analytics effort?
      >>
      >> At 06:33 AM 1/6/2005, you wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >> No I don't wish to start a debate on which is
      >> better...
      >>
      >> I just wish to get an idea of the number of vendors
      >> that offer
      >> both as a combined solution i.e. not separate
      >> services.
      >>
      >> Are their many vendors doing this, or is it a simple
      >> either or
      >> split?
      >>
      >> Best regards, Brian
      >>
      >>
      > =============================================================
      >> Omega Digital Media Ltd
      >>
      >> Dave Wagner
      >> Vice President, Marketing
      >> CommerSel Software, Inc.
      >> http://www.commersel.com <http://www.commersel.com/>
      >>
      >> dave@...
      >>>>> Network with professionals at:
      >> http://www.linkedin.com
      >> <http://www.linkedin.com/> <<<
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> ---------------------------------------
      >> Web Metrics Discussion Group
      >> Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      >> Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      >> http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      >> <http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> _____
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
      >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webanalytics/
      >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webanalytics/>
      >>
      >>
      >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >> webanalytics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >>
      > <mailto:webanalytics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
      >> Terms of Service
      >> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      > =====
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > __________________________________
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
      > http://my.yahoo.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 8
      > Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 09:53:04 -0800
      > From: Jim Sterne <jsterne@...>
      > Subject: RE: tagging and log analysis
      >
      > At 09:27 AM 1/6/2005, celia rexselin wrote:
      >> Your words seem to say that you are looking for
      >> something more information that none of the web
      >> analytic products now have.after all, NECCESSITY is
      >> the mother of all INVENTION. Can I please know what
      >> else you are looking for?
      >
      > Are we attracting new people to our site?
      > Is our site 'sticky'? Which regions in it are not?
      > What is the health of our lead qualification process?
      > How adept is our conversion of browsers to buyers?
      > What behavior indicates purchase propensity?
      > What site navigation do we wish to encourage?
      > How can profiling help use cross-sell and up-sell?
      > How do customer segments differ?
      > What attributes describe our best customers?
      > Can we target other prospects like them?
      > What makes customers loyal?
      > How do we measure loyalty?
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------
      > Jim Sterne http://www.targeting.com
      > ========================================
      > Emetrics Summit http://www.emetrics.org/summit605
      > Santa Barbara, June 1 - 3 Web Analytics Conference
      > London, June 8-10 +1-805-965-3184
      >
      >
      >
      > [This message contained attachments]
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 9
      > Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 11:36:47 -0800 (PST)
      > From: Matt Belkin <mbelkin@...>
      > Subject: RE: tagging and log analysis
      >
      > Michael is absolutely right - and because I think this topic has been beaten
      > to death, I won't belabor the point. The reality is that every customer is
      > unique in their measurement requirements and what works for 1 company may not
      > work the another.
      >
      > Web analytics success, and I would argue more broadly business analytics
      > success, is squarely determined by a company's ability -
      >
      > 1) understand it's strategic objectives and goals
      > 2) implement a solution that allows measurement of those objectives and goals
      > 3) take action based on insight from said solution
      >
      > That's it. Whether that is a tag-based Web Analytics solution or a server
      > logfile, whether it's a data warehouse from Oracle or a data mart from
      > Epiphany, it doesn't matter. Identify the requirements and solve for them.
      > And if you aren't willing to take action, it doesn't matter what solution you
      > have, you will fail to realize ROI from that investment.
      >
      > I myself - along with Omniture customers - have enjoyed great success using
      > tag-based solutions in place of server logfiles. That is my experience, and
      > that is what I can confidently endorse. However, if server logfiles are
      > working for other folks in the industry, I think that's fantastic and we wish
      > them the best success.
      >
      > Michael Horn <mhorn@...> wrote:
      > For a number of reasons, we rely on multiple methodologies --
      > tagging for pages, log analysis for streaming media, panels for
      > audience and demographic/consumer behaviors, and qualitative
      > methods (inbound mail, focus groups, user testing) to inform
      > design and development.
      >
      > Each method is better or worse at certain things, but no method
      > could ever accomplish all of our needs. Each has at least one
      > significant blind spot or bias.
      >
      > Just as we never have enough analysis time, we'll never have
      > enough sources of data!
      >
      > Michael
      >
      > Michael D. Horn | npr online analyst | mhorn@... | 202.513.2458
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Dave Wagner [mailto:dave@...]
      > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 10:18 AM
      > To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [webanalytics] tagging and log analysis
      >
      >
      > Honestly, I don't think one technique is generally better than the other.
      > Page tagging is invaluable for certain types of analysis that can be foreseen
      > ahead of time. Log analysis is often what most folks are doing though, so
      > when we talk about growing trends in page tagging it would be interesting to
      > define the parameters of the trend. For example, is page tagging the
      > dominant technique among e-businesses that have an organized web analytics
      > effort?
      >
      > At 06:33 AM 1/6/2005, you wrote:
      > No I don't wish to start a debate on which is better...
      >
      > I just wish to get an idea of the number of vendors that offer
      > both as a combined solution i.e. not separate services.
      >
      > Are their many vendors doing this, or is it a simple either or
      > split?
      >
      > Best regards, Brian
      >
      > =============================================================
      > Omega Digital Media Ltd
      > Dave Wagner
      > Vice President, Marketing
      > CommerSel Software, Inc.
      > http://www.commersel.com
      > dave@...
      >>>> Network with professionals at: http://www.linkedin.com <<<
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------------
      > Web Metrics Discussion Group
      > Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      > Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------------
      > Web Metrics Discussion Group
      > Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      > Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webanalytics/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > webanalytics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >
      >
      >
      > [This message contained attachments]
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 10
      > Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 22:26:22 -0000
      > From: "Fred Kuu" <fkuu325@...>
      > Subject: Re: tagging and log analysis
      >
      >
      > It would be interesting to see if consolidation and partnerships
      > increase over the next year to two, especially after seeing
      > Doubleclick drop their own solution and partnering with Omniture.
      > Congratulations Matt!
      >
      > Like Michael, I've been in places where we needed to use different
      > tools/services to suit different requirements. However, I do wish
      > there was an easier way to tie them all together than using Excel.
      > :)
      >
      > -Fred Kuu
      >
      > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, Matt Belkin <mbelkin@y...> wrote:
      >> Michael is absolutely right - and because I think this topic has
      > been beaten to death, I won't belabor the point. The reality is that
      > every customer is unique in their measurement requirements and what
      > works for 1 company may not work the another.
      >>
      >> Web analytics success, and I would argue more broadly business
      > analytics success, is squarely determined by a company's ability -
      >>
      >> 1) understand it's strategic objectives and goals
      >> 2) implement a solution that allows measurement of those objectives
      > and goals
      >> 3) take action based on insight from said solution
      >>
      >> That's it. Whether that is a tag-based Web Analytics solution or a
      > server logfile, whether it's a data warehouse from Oracle or a data
      > mart from Epiphany, it doesn't matter. Identify the requirements and
      > solve for them. And if you aren't willing to take action, it doesn't
      > matter what solution you have, you will fail to realize ROI from that
      > investment.
      >>
      >> I myself - along with Omniture customers - have enjoyed great
      > success using tag-based solutions in place of server logfiles. That
      > is my experience, and that is what I can confidently endorse.
      > However, if server logfiles are working for other folks in the
      > industry, I think that's fantastic and we wish them the best success.
      >>
      >> Michael Horn <mhorn@n...> wrote:
      >> For a number of reasons, we rely on multiple methodologies --
      >> tagging for pages, log analysis for streaming media, panels for
      >> audience and demographic/consumer behaviors, and qualitative
      >> methods (inbound mail, focus groups, user testing) to inform
      >> design and development.
      >>
      >> Each method is better or worse at certain things, but no method
      >> could ever accomplish all of our needs. Each has at least one
      >> significant blind spot or bias.
      >>
      >> Just as we never have enough analysis time, we'll never have
      >> enough sources of data!
      >>
      >> Michael
      >>
      >> Michael D. Horn | npr online analyst | mhorn@n... | 202.513.2458
      >> -----Original Message-----
      >> From: Dave Wagner [mailto:dave@c...]
      >> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 10:18 AM
      >> To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
      >> Subject: Re: [webanalytics] tagging and log analysis
      >>
      >>
      >> Honestly, I don't think one technique is generally better than the
      > other. Page tagging is invaluable for certain types of analysis that
      > can be foreseen ahead of time. Log analysis is often what most folks
      > are doing though, so when we talk about growing trends in page tagging
      > it would be interesting to define the parameters of the trend. For
      > example, is page tagging the dominant technique among e-businesses
      > that have an organized web analytics effort?
      >>
      >> At 06:33 AM 1/6/2005, you wrote:
      >> No I don't wish to start a debate on which is better...
      >>
      >> I just wish to get an idea of the number of vendors that offer
      >> both as a combined solution i.e. not separate services.
      >>
      >> Are their many vendors doing this, or is it a simple either or
      >> split?
      >>
      >> Best regards, Brian
      >>
      >> =============================================================
      >> Omega Digital Media Ltd
      >> Dave Wagner
      >> Vice President, Marketing
      >> CommerSel Software, Inc.
      >> http://www.commersel.com
      >> dave@c...
      >>>>> Network with professionals at: http://www.linkedin.com <<<
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> ---------------------------------------
      >> Web Metrics Discussion Group
      >> Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      >> Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      >> http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> ---------------------------------------
      >> Web Metrics Discussion Group
      >> Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      >> Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      >> http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      >>
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
      >>
      >>
      >> ---------------------------------
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
      >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webanalytics/
      >>
      >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >> webanalytics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >>
      >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 11
      > Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 23:35:51 -0000
      > From: "mlillig2002" <mlillig2002@...>
      > Subject: Re: tagging and log analysis
      >
      >
      >
      > As a sales consultant for a web analytic company, I get to hear what
      > customers are saying. It's sounds a little something like
      > this.............. "HELP!!!"
      >
      > I think you'll see more vendors offering services to help their
      > clients. Basically, a one stop shop for all your online marketing
      > needs. Need A/B testing? We've got it. Need training on the 800
      > plus reports (just kidding) we provide you? No problem. Need SEM
      > services to help you mange those 500 keywords and help increase those
      > conversions based on your reports? Sign on the dotted line.
      >
      > Google is a search engine company, but they're offering more
      > services. Free email and a desktop application. And it worked!
      > Clients ask and clients receive.
      >
      > "The only way to meet the needs of your customers, is to know your
      > audience and what they're interestd in."
      >
      > The analytics market is too crowded and everybody seems to simply be
      > copying each other with regards to reports. There is more to it
      > these days then just offering reports to clients. They want help
      > with site optimization, pay per click management, A/B testing.
      > Analytics is the foundation behind all of those. Optimize the site
      > with analytics, test and measure changes with analytics, and
      > advertise to drive traffic to your site and then track the
      > effectiveness with analytics.
      >
      > It's still going to come down to differentiation and who will offer
      > the best services.
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Matt Lillig
      > Software Strategist
      > (619) 308-5227 | Phone
      > (619) 238-8505 | Fax
      > www.indextools.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Some vendors already offer these services. Othe will need to build
      > partnerships with existing web marketing companies.
      >
      > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Kuu" <fkuu325@y...> wrote:
      >>
      >> It would be interesting to see if consolidation and partnerships
      >> increase over the next year to two, especially after seeing
      >> Doubleclick drop their own solution and partnering with Omniture.
      >> Congratulations Matt!
      >>
      >> Like Michael, I've been in places where we needed to use different
      >> tools/services to suit different requirements. However, I do wish
      >> there was an easier way to tie them all together than using
      > Excel.
      >> :)
      >>
      >> -Fred Kuu
      >>
      >> --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, Matt Belkin <mbelkin@y...>
      > wrote:
      >>> Michael is absolutely right - and because I think this topic has
      >> been beaten to death, I won't belabor the point. The reality is
      > that
      >> every customer is unique in their measurement requirements and what
      >> works for 1 company may not work the another.
      >>>
      >>> Web analytics success, and I would argue more broadly business
      >> analytics success, is squarely determined by a company's ability -
      >>>
      >>> 1) understand it's strategic objectives and goals
      >>> 2) implement a solution that allows measurement of those
      > objectives
      >> and goals
      >>> 3) take action based on insight from said solution
      >>>
      >>> That's it. Whether that is a tag-based Web Analytics solution or
      > a
      >> server logfile, whether it's a data warehouse from Oracle or a data
      >> mart from Epiphany, it doesn't matter. Identify the requirements
      > and
      >> solve for them. And if you aren't willing to take action, it
      > doesn't
      >> matter what solution you have, you will fail to realize ROI from
      > that
      >> investment.
      >>>
      >>> I myself - along with Omniture customers - have enjoyed great
      >> success using tag-based solutions in place of server logfiles. That
      >> is my experience, and that is what I can confidently endorse.
      >> However, if server logfiles are working for other folks in the
      >> industry, I think that's fantastic and we wish them the best
      > success.
      >>>
      >>> Michael Horn <mhorn@n...> wrote:
      >>> For a number of reasons, we rely on multiple methodologies --
      >>> tagging for pages, log analysis for streaming media, panels for
      >>> audience and demographic/consumer behaviors, and qualitative
      >>> methods (inbound mail, focus groups, user testing) to inform
      >>> design and development.
      >>>
      >>> Each method is better or worse at certain things, but no method
      >>> could ever accomplish all of our needs. Each has at least one
      >>> significant blind spot or bias.
      >>>
      >>> Just as we never have enough analysis time, we'll never have
      >>> enough sources of data!
      >>>
      >>> Michael
      >>>
      >>> Michael D. Horn | npr online analyst | mhorn@n... | 202.513.2458
      >>> -----Original Message-----
      >>> From: Dave Wagner [mailto:dave@c...]
      >>> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 10:18 AM
      >>> To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
      >>> Subject: Re: [webanalytics] tagging and log analysis
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Honestly, I don't think one technique is generally better than the
      >> other. Page tagging is invaluable for certain types of analysis
      > that
      >> can be foreseen ahead of time. Log analysis is often what most
      > folks
      >> are doing though, so when we talk about growing trends in page
      > tagging
      >> it would be interesting to define the parameters of the trend. For
      >> example, is page tagging the dominant technique among e-businesses
      >> that have an organized web analytics effort?
      >>>
      >>> At 06:33 AM 1/6/2005, you wrote:
      >>> No I don't wish to start a debate on which is better...
      >>>
      >>> I just wish to get an idea of the number of vendors that offer
      >>> both as a combined solution i.e. not separate services.
      >>>
      >>> Are their many vendors doing this, or is it a simple either or
      >>> split?
      >>>
      >>> Best regards, Brian
      >>>
      >>> =============================================================
      >>> Omega Digital Media Ltd
      >>> Dave Wagner
      >>> Vice President, Marketing
      >>> CommerSel Software, Inc.
      >>> http://www.commersel.com
      >>> dave@c...
      >>>>>> Network with professionals at: http://www.linkedin.com <<<
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> ---------------------------------------
      >>> Web Metrics Discussion Group
      >>> Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      >>> Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      >>> http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> ---------------------------------------
      >>> Web Metrics Discussion Group
      >>> Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      >>> Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      >>> http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> ---------------------------------
      >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>
      >>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
      >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webanalytics/
      >>>
      >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >>> webanalytics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >>>
      >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      > Service.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 12
      > Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 04:18:48 -0000
      > From: "Chris Grant" <chrisgrantaa@...>
      > Subject: Re: tagging and log analysis
      >
      >
      > Brian ......................................
      >
      > I think your question which started all this was "i'm not asking
      > about advantages and disadvantages, just how many vendors offer
      > both" ?
      >
      > The answer to your specific question, as far as I know, is two. Two
      > vendors.
      >
      > Chris Grant
      > Senior Data Strategist
      > Enlighten
      > http://www.enlighten.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "mlillig2002" <mlillig2002@y...>
      > wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >> As a sales consultant for a web analytic company, I get to hear
      > what
      >> customers are saying. It's sounds a little something like
      >> this.............. "HELP!!!"
      >>
      >> I think you'll see more vendors offering services to help their
      >> clients. Basically, a one stop shop for all your online marketing
      >> needs. Need A/B testing? We've got it. Need training on the 800
      >> plus reports (just kidding) we provide you? No problem. Need SEM
      >> services to help you mange those 500 keywords and help increase
      > those
      >> conversions based on your reports? Sign on the dotted line.
      >>
      >> Google is a search engine company, but they're offering more
      >> services. Free email and a desktop application. And it worked!
      >> Clients ask and clients receive.
      >>
      >> "The only way to meet the needs of your customers, is to know your
      >> audience and what they're interestd in."
      >>
      >> The analytics market is too crowded and everybody seems to simply
      > be
      >> copying each other with regards to reports. There is more to it
      >> these days then just offering reports to clients. They want help
      >> with site optimization, pay per click management, A/B testing.
      >> Analytics is the foundation behind all of those. Optimize the site
      >> with analytics, test and measure changes with analytics, and
      >> advertise to drive traffic to your site and then track the
      >> effectiveness with analytics.
      >>
      >> It's still going to come down to differentiation and who will offer
      >> the best services.
      >>
      >> Regards,
      >>
      >> Matt Lillig
      >> Software Strategist
      >> (619) 308-5227 | Phone
      >> (619) 238-8505 | Fax
      >> www.indextools.com
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Some vendors already offer these services. Othe will need to build
      >> partnerships with existing web marketing companies.
      >>
      >> --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Kuu" <fkuu325@y...>
      > wrote:
      >>>
      >>> It would be interesting to see if consolidation and partnerships
      >>> increase over the next year to two, especially after seeing
      >>> Doubleclick drop their own solution and partnering with Omniture.
      >>> Congratulations Matt!
      >>>
      >>> Like Michael, I've been in places where we needed to use different
      >>> tools/services to suit different requirements. However, I do wish
      >>> there was an easier way to tie them all together than using
      >> Excel.
      >>> :)
      >>>
      >>> -Fred Kuu
      >>>
      >>> --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, Matt Belkin <mbelkin@y...>
      >> wrote:
      >>>> Michael is absolutely right - and because I think this topic has
      >>> been beaten to death, I won't belabor the point. The reality is
      >> that
      >>> every customer is unique in their measurement requirements and
      > what
      >>> works for 1 company may not work the another.
      >>>>
      >>>> Web analytics success, and I would argue more broadly business
      >>> analytics success, is squarely determined by a company's ability -
      >
      >>>>
      >>>> 1) understand it's strategic objectives and goals
      >>>> 2) implement a solution that allows measurement of those
      >> objectives
      >>> and goals
      >>>> 3) take action based on insight from said solution
      >>>>
      >>>> That's it. Whether that is a tag-based Web Analytics solution
      > or
      >> a
      >>> server logfile, whether it's a data warehouse from Oracle or a
      > data
      >>> mart from Epiphany, it doesn't matter. Identify the requirements
      >> and
      >>> solve for them. And if you aren't willing to take action, it
      >> doesn't
      >>> matter what solution you have, you will fail to realize ROI from
      >> that
      >>> investment.
      >>>>
      >>>> I myself - along with Omniture customers - have enjoyed great
      >>> success using tag-based solutions in place of server logfiles.
      > That
      >>> is my experience, and that is what I can confidently endorse.
      >>> However, if server logfiles are working for other folks in the
      >>> industry, I think that's fantastic and we wish them the best
      >> success.
      >>>>
      >>>> Michael Horn <mhorn@n...> wrote:
      >>>> For a number of reasons, we rely on multiple methodologies --
      >>>> tagging for pages, log analysis for streaming media, panels for
      >>>> audience and demographic/consumer behaviors, and qualitative
      >>>> methods (inbound mail, focus groups, user testing) to inform
      >>>> design and development.
      >>>>
      >>>> Each method is better or worse at certain things, but no method
      >>>> could ever accomplish all of our needs. Each has at least one
      >>>> significant blind spot or bias.
      >>>>
      >>>> Just as we never have enough analysis time, we'll never have
      >>>> enough sources of data!
      >>>>
      >>>> Michael
      >>>>
      >>>> Michael D. Horn | npr online analyst | mhorn@n... |
      > 202.513.2458
      >>>> -----Original Message-----
      >>>> From: Dave Wagner [mailto:dave@c...]
      >>>> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 10:18 AM
      >>>> To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
      >>>> Subject: Re: [webanalytics] tagging and log analysis
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> Honestly, I don't think one technique is generally better than
      > the
      >>> other. Page tagging is invaluable for certain types of analysis
      >> that
      >>> can be foreseen ahead of time. Log analysis is often what most
      >> folks
      >>> are doing though, so when we talk about growing trends in page
      >> tagging
      >>> it would be interesting to define the parameters of the trend.
      > For
      >>> example, is page tagging the dominant technique among e-businesses
      >>> that have an organized web analytics effort?
      >>>>
      >>>> At 06:33 AM 1/6/2005, you wrote:
      >>>> No I don't wish to start a debate on which is better...
      >>>>
      >>>> I just wish to get an idea of the number of vendors that offer
      >>>> both as a combined solution i.e. not separate services.
      >>>>
      >>>> Are their many vendors doing this, or is it a simple either or
      >>>> split?
      >>>>
      >>>> Best regards, Brian
      >>>>
      >>>> =============================================================
      >>>> Omega Digital Media Ltd
      >>>> Dave Wagner
      >>>> Vice President, Marketing
      >>>> CommerSel Software, Inc.
      >>>> http://www.commersel.com
      >>>> dave@c...
      >>>>>>> Network with professionals at: http://www.linkedin.com <<<
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> ---------------------------------------
      >>>> Web Metrics Discussion Group
      >>>> Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      >>>> Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      >>>> http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> ---------------------------------------
      >>>> Web Metrics Discussion Group
      >>>> Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      >>>> Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      >>>> http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> ---------------------------------
      >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>>
      >>>> To visit your group on the web, go to:
      >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webanalytics/
      >>>>
      >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >>>> webanalytics-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >>>>
      >>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      >> Service.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 13
      > Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 04:22:58 -0000
      > From: "Chris Grant" <chrisgrantaa@...>
      > Subject: Re: tagging and log analysis
      >
      >
      > Heh.
      >
      > Brian, I assume you want to know which vendors. I just couldn't
      > resist with all this name dropping happening. The only two I know of
      > are WebTrends, which has offered both methods for 2-3 years, and Net
      > Tracker, which has offered both starting this last October.
      >
      > I could be missing some.
      >
      > Chris
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Grant"
      > <chrisgrantaa@y...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Brian ......................................
      >>
      >> I think your question which started all this was "i'm not asking
      >> about advantages and disadvantages, just how many vendors offer
      >> both" ?
      >>
      >> The answer to your specific question, as far as I know, is two.
      > Two
      >> vendors.
      >>
      >> Chris Grant
      >> Senior Data Strategist
      >> Enlighten
      >> http://www.enlighten.com
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "mlillig2002"
      > <mlillig2002@y...>
      >> wrote:
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> As a sales consultant for a web analytic company, I get to hear
      >> what
      >>> customers are saying. It's sounds a little something like
      >>> this.............. "HELP!!!"
      >>>
      >>> I think you'll see more vendors offering services to help their
      >>> clients. Basically, a one stop shop for all your online
      > marketing
      >>> needs. Need A/B testing? We've got it. Need training on the
      > 800
      >>> plus reports (just kidding) we provide you? No problem. Need
      > SEM
      >>> services to help you mange those 500 keywords and help increase
      >> those
      >>> conversions based on your reports? Sign on the dotted line.
      >>>
      >>> Google is a search engine company, but they're offering more
      >>> services. Free email and a desktop application. And it worked!
      >>> Clients ask and clients receive.
      >>>
      >>> "The only way to meet the needs of your customers, is to know
      > your
      >>> audience and what they're interestd in."
      >>>
      >>> The analytics market is too crowded and everybody seems to simply
      >> be
      >>> copying each other with regards to reports. There is more to it
      >>> these days then just offering reports to clients. They want help
      >>> with site optimization, pay per click management, A/B testing.
      >>> Analytics is the foundation behind all of those. Optimize the
      > site
      >>> with analytics, test and measure changes with analytics, and
      >>> advertise to drive traffic to your site and then track the
      >>> effectiveness with analytics.
      >>>
      >>> It's still going to come down to differentiation and who will
      > offer
      >>> the best services.
      >>>
      >>> Regards,
      >>>
      >>> Matt Lillig
      >>> Software Strategist
      >>> (619) 308-5227 | Phone
      >>> (619) 238-8505 | Fax
      >>> www.indextools.com
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Some vendors already offer these services. Othe will need to
      > build
      >>> partnerships with existing web marketing companies.
      >>>
      >>> --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Kuu" <fkuu325@y...>
      >> wrote:
      >>>>
      >>>> It would be interesting to see if consolidation and partnerships
      >>>> increase over the next year to two, especially after seeing
      >>>> Doubleclick drop their own solution and partnering with
      > Omniture.
      >>>> Congratulations Matt!
      >>>>
      >>>> Like Michael, I've been in places where we needed to use
      > different
      >>>> tools/services to suit different requirements. However, I do
      > wish
      >>>> there was an easier way to tie them all together than using
      >>> Excel.
      >>>> :)
      >>>>
      >>>> -Fred Kuu
      >>>>
      >>>> --- In webanalytics@yahoogroups.com, Matt Belkin <mbelkin@y...>
      >>> wrote:
      >>>>> Michael is absolutely right - and because I think this topic
      > has
      >>>> been beaten to death, I won't belabor the point. The reality
      > is
      >>> that
      >>>> every customer is unique in their measurement requirements and
      >> what
      >>>> works for 1 company may not work the another.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Web analytics success, and I would argue more broadly business
      >>>> analytics success, is squarely determined by a company's
      > ability -
      >>
      >>>>>
      >>>>> 1) understand it's strategic objectives and goals
      >>>>> 2) implement a solution that allows measurement of those
      >>> objectives
      >>>> and goals
      >>>>> 3) take action based on insight from said solution
      >>>>>
      >>>>> That's it. Whether that is a tag-based Web Analytics
      > solution
      >> or
      >>> a
      >>>> server logfile, whether it's a data warehouse from Oracle or a
      >> data
      >>>> mart from Epiphany, it doesn't matter. Identify the
      > requirements
      >>> and
      >>>> solve for them. And if you aren't willing to take action, it
      >>> doesn't
      >>>> matter what solution you have, you will fail to realize ROI
      > from
      >>> that
      >>>> investment.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> I myself - along with Omniture customers - have enjoyed great
      >>>> success using tag-based solutions in place of server logfiles.
      >> That
      >>>> is my experience, and that is what I can confidently endorse.
      >>>> However, if server logfiles are working for other folks in the
      >>>> industry, I think that's fantastic and we wish them the best
      >>> success.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Michael Horn <mhorn@n...> wrote:
      >>>>> For a number of reasons, we rely on multiple methodologies --
      >>>>> tagging for pages, log analysis for streaming media, panels
      > for
      >>>>> audience and demographic/consumer behaviors, and qualitative
      >>>>> methods (inbound mail, focus groups, user testing) to inform
      >>>>> design and development.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Each method is better or worse at certain things, but no
      > method
      >>>>> could ever accomplish all of our needs. Each has at least one
      >>>>> significant blind spot or bias.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Just as we never have enough analysis time, we'll never have
      >>>>> enough sources of data!
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Michael
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Michael D. Horn | npr online analyst | mhorn@n... |
      >> 202.513.2458
      >>>>> -----Original Message-----
      >>>>> From: Dave Wagner [mailto:dave@c...]
      >>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 10:18 AM
      >>>>> To: webanalytics@yahoogroups.com
      >>>>> Subject: Re: [webanalytics] tagging and log analysis
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Honestly, I don't think one technique is generally better
      > than
      >> the
      >>>> other. Page tagging is invaluable for certain types of
      > analysis
      >>> that
      >>>> can be foreseen ahead of time. Log analysis is often what most
      >>> folks
      >>>> are doing though, so when we talk about growing trends in page
      >>> tagging
      >>>> it would be interesting to define the parameters of the
      > trend.
      >> For
      >>>> example, is page tagging the dominant technique among e-
      > businesses
      >>>> that have an organized web analytics effort?
      >>>>>
      >>>>> At 06:33 AM 1/6/2005, you wrote:
      >>>>> No I don't wish to start a debate on which is better...
      >>>>>
      >>>>> I just wish to get an idea of the number of vendors that
      > offer
      >>>>> both as a combined solution i.e. not separate services.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Are their many vendors doing this, or is it a simple either
      > or
      >>>>> split?
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Best regards, Brian
      >>>>>
      >>>>> =============================================================
      >>>>> Omega Digital Media Ltd
      >>>>> Dave Wagner
      >>>>> Vice President, Marketing
      >>>>> CommerSel Software, Inc.
      >>>>> http://www.commersel.com
      >>>>> dave@c...
      >>>>>>>> Network with professionals at: http://www.linkedin.com <<<
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>> ---------------------------------------
      >>>>> Web Metrics Discussion Group
      >>>>> Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      >>>>> Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      >>>>> http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>> ---------------------------------------
      >>>>> Web Metrics Discussion Group
      >>>>> Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      >>>>> Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      >>>>> http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
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      >>>>>
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      >>>>>
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      > of
      >>> Service.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 14
      > Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 23:12:40 -0800
      > From: Jason Grigsby <jason-yahoo@...>
      > Subject: Re: Re: tagging and log analysis
      >
      > LOL. Good catch Chris. I had completely forgotten what the Brian's
      > original question was and have been ignoring this thread.
      >
      > I'm a web developer, not a developer of analytics software, so I don't
      > know the industry as well as the others on the list. However, I do know
      > that Urchin offers both page tag and log analysis.
      >
      > Brian originally wrote:
      >
      >> I just wish to get an idea of the number of vendors that offer both as
      >> a combined solution i.e. not separate services.
      >>
      >> Are their many vendors doing this, or is it a simple either or split?
      >
      > I think most of the time they are separate services, but some of the
      > providers use page tagging to augment log analysis. That is my limited
      > understanding.
      >
      > -Jason
      >
      > On Jan 6, 2005, at 8:22 PM, Chris Grant wrote:
      >
      >>
      >>
      >> Heh.
      >>
      >> Brian, I assume you want to know which vendors. I just couldn't
      >> resist with all this name dropping happening. The only two I know of
      >> are WebTrends, which has offered both methods for 2-3 years, and Net
      >> Tracker, which has offered both starting this last October.
      >>
      >> I could be missing some.
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------------
      > Web Metrics Discussion Group
      > Moderated by Eric T. Peterson
      > Author, Web Analytics Demystified
      > http://www.webanalyticsdemystified.com
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      >
      >
      >
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