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  • xirzon
    Hi, I m the webmaster of: http://fr.wikinations.org/ There s a webalizer V2.01-10 generating daily stats at: http://fr.wikinations.be/stats/ My problem is that
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 25, 2005
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      Hi,

      I'm the webmaster of:
      http://fr.wikinations.org/

      There's a webalizer V2.01-10 generating daily stats at:
      http://fr.wikinations.be/stats/

      My problem is that the "Visits" statistics for every day are much too
      low. For example, on August 20, I am counting 274 unique IP addresses
      and 1983 hits. Webalizer reports the number of hits correctly, but
      only reports 22 visits.

      I'm not sure why it is doing this. One theory is that it's not
      counting many of these hits as visits because of my rewrite rules. For
      example, a typical URL on the site will look like this:

      http://fr.wikinations.be/Notaire

      There is no extension. I have set PageType in webalizer.conf to:

      PageType *
      PageType .php

      But this doesn't seem to do the trick. I also note that the "Page"
      counts seem accurate (i.e. slightly lower than the number of hits)

      Any ideas how I could get an accurate visit count?

      Best,

      Erik
    • Colonel Angel
      HI! Well, what I can tell you is that a hit is not a visit, it just means that your site has been touched in someway like on a search engine by one of the
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 25, 2005
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        HI!

        Well, what I can tell you is that a hit is not a
        visit, it just means that your site has been touched
        in someway like on a search engine by one of the
        keywords that's indexed.

        A visit is a search engine or someone that has
        actually gone to your site.

        Example:

        My site has had 990 actual site visits, while my hits
        are well over 80 thousand for the month.

        Daily is 75 with over 9500 hits.

        Your best calculation is the actual site visits, which
        means that a search engine has or is indexing your
        site, or someone has actually been to your site and
        snooped around.

        I hope this helps you.

        Angel




        --- xirzon <moeller@...> wrote:

        > Hi,
        >
        > I'm the webmaster of:
        > http://fr.wikinations.org/
        >
        > There's a webalizer V2.01-10 generating daily stats
        > at:
        > http://fr.wikinations.be/stats/
        >
        > My problem is that the "Visits" statistics for every
        > day are much too
        > low. For example, on August 20, I am counting 274
        > unique IP addresses
        > and 1983 hits. Webalizer reports the number of hits
        > correctly, but
        > only reports 22 visits.
        >
        > I'm not sure why it is doing this. One theory is
        > that it's not
        > counting many of these hits as visits because of my
        > rewrite rules. For
        > example, a typical URL on the site will look like
        > this:
        >
        > http://fr.wikinations.be/Notaire
        >
        > There is no extension. I have set PageType in
        > webalizer.conf to:
        >
        > PageType *
        > PageType .php
        >
        > But this doesn't seem to do the trick. I also note
        > that the "Page"
        > counts seem accurate (i.e. slightly lower than the
        > number of hits)
        >
        > Any ideas how I could get an accurate visit count?
        >
        > Best,
        >
        > Erik
        >
        >
        >


        __________________________________________________
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      • William L. Thomson Jr.
        ... To expand a hit tends to be a request. So if you have a page with 4 images on it. When someone requests that page, it will equal 5 hits. If the same person
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 25, 2005
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          On Thu, 2005-08-25 at 13:28 -0700, Colonel Angel wrote:
          > HI!
          >
          > Well, what I can tell you is that a hit is not a
          > visit,

          To expand a hit tends to be a request. So if you have a page with 4
          images on it. When someone requests that page, it will equal 5 hits.
          If the same person re-requests that page, you get 5 more hits, and so
          on.

          Not a very accurate way to measure web site traffic or etc. If solely
          going by hits. It's more a reflection of the amount of requests, or hits
          to the web server or etc.

          --
          Sincerely,
          William L. Thomson Jr.
          Support Group
          Obsidian-Studios, Inc.
          http://www.obsidian-studios.com
        • Bradford L. Barrett
          ... URLs without extensions are automatically counted as a page. Your config option PageType * is invalid and should be removed. If you are using
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 25, 2005
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            > There is no extension. I have set PageType in webalizer.conf to:
            >
            > PageType *
            > PageType .php

            URLs without extensions are automatically counted as a page. Your
            config option "PageType *" is invalid and should be removed. If you
            are using incremental mode, be sure to reset your stats and re-process
            after changing the config file.

            --
            Bradford L. Barrett brad@...
            A free electron in a sea of neutrons DoD#1750 KD4NAW

            The only thing Micro$oft has done for society, is make people
            believe that computers are inherently unreliable.
          • Enric Naval
            ... (I m sorry, after re-reading your email, I see that you already have the number of requests per page in mind when weighting the number of requests) It is
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 26, 2005
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              --- "William L. Thomson Jr."
              <yahoogroups@...> wrote:

              > On Thu, 2005-08-25 at 13:28 -0700, Colonel Angel
              > wrote:
              > > HI!
              > >
              > > Well, what I can tell you is that a hit is not a
              > > visit,
              >
              > To expand a hit tends to be a request. So if you
              > have a page with 4
              > images on it. When someone requests that page, it
              > will equal 5 hits.
              > If the same person re-requests that page, you get 5
              > more hits, and so
              > on.
              >
              > Not a very accurate way to measure web site traffic
              > or etc. If solely
              > going by hits. It's more a reflection of the amount
              > of requests, or hits
              > to the web server or etc.

              (I'm sorry, after re-reading your email, I see that
              you already have the number of requests per page in
              mind when weighting the number of requests)


              It is also a measure of having too many images in your
              pages, like using images for your navigation bar
              instead of text links.

              I have a page in my server that has 29 images, 8
              external style sheets and one javascript external
              file. Including the HTML itself, that's 29+8+1+1=39
              requests for one visit, so I have to be careful when
              comparing the request total to other websites who
              generate only 5 or 6 elements per page, or when every
              page in a website has a different number of elements.


              I'm getting an average of 6'7 hits per visit for a
              website that has 39 hits per webpage. This is a very
              high average, mind you, because most people will come
              throught a search engine, get a single file, and then
              go away. There is also people linking directly to
              .pdfs buried somewhere in the website, and the
              ocasional image stealer, who shows YOUR images in
              THEIR pages, creating a hit for every visit to THEIR
              pages.


              Also notice the following fenomena:


              - visitor opens page in your server:
              - 1 visit
              - 39 requests (Code 200 - OK) for HTML, images, css
              and javascrip


              - visitor opens page in your server AFTER having
              opened a very similar page:
              - 0 visits
              - 1 request (Code 200 - OK) for HTML
              - 3 requests (Code 200 - OK) for new images
              - 38 requests (Code 304 - Not Modified) for images,
              css and javascript that were already in the other page



              - visitor from a search engine gets a .doc file
              - 1 visits
              - 1 request (Code 200 - OK) for the .doc


              - visitor from a search engine gets a very big .avi
              file and requests to get it in many small pieces
              - 1 visits
              - 80 requests (Code 206 - Partial Content), this is
              1 request for every small piece of .avi






              >
              > --
              > Sincerely,
              > William L. Thomson Jr.
              > Support Group
              > Obsidian-Studios, Inc.
              > http://www.obsidian-studios.com
              >
              >


              Enric Naval
              Estudiante de Informática de Gestión en la Udl (Lleida)
              GRIHO webalizer.conf
              http://griho.udl.es/webalizer/webalizer.conf.txt

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com
            • Enric Naval
              Look at the Sites Top List. It only lists 3 different sites! Maybe your rewrite rules are preventing your webserver from writing in the logs the correct IPs of
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 26, 2005
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                Look at the Sites Top List. It only lists 3 different
                sites!

                Maybe your rewrite rules are preventing your webserver
                from writing in the logs the correct IPs of your
                visitors. It is writing instead your own IP as the
                visitor's IP.

                So, when I visit from telefonica.es, the rewrite
                causes the webserver to write "fr.wikinations.be" in
                the logfile instead of "telefonica.es". When I visit
                from udl.es, the webserver also writes
                "fr.wikinations.be". When I visit from ya.com, etc.

                (Can you post those rewrite rules here? I would like
                to see them.)

                In your logfile you must have something like this:


                fr.wikinations.be - - [01/Aug/ (...) "Bloglines/2.0
                (http://www.bloglines.com; 1 subscriber)"
                fr.wikinations.be - - [01/Aug/ (...)
                "Googlebot-Image/1.0"
                fr.wikinations.be - - [01/Aug/ (...)
                "Googlebot-Image/1.0"
                fr.wikinations.be - - [01/Aug/ (...) "Mozilla/5.0
                (compatible; Yahoo! Slurp; (...)

                According to this, Google, Yahoo and bloglines.com
                must have merged, because their bots come all from the
                same IP.....


                fr.wikinations.be [01/Aug/2005:21:02:06 +0200](...)
                "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1;
                SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)"

                fr.wikinations.be [01/Aug/2005:21:02:07 +0200](...)
                "Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; es-es) Apple
                WebKit/412.6 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/412.2"


                Also, you would be using both Windows and Macintosh...
                at the same time.


                For example, for July 2005 you have 109419 hits from
                fr.wikinations.be, which would mean that you are
                visiting yourself an average of 2,5 times per hour :)

                Those are probably visits from comcast.net,
                telefonica.es, and a thousand different places, but
                your rewrite rules are causing the logfiles to claim
                that they all come from fr.wikinations.be.

                There so many little visits because a new visit only
                starts when one of these conditions become true:

                a) more than 30 minutes pass without a hit from that
                IP

                b) a different User Agent is used (I'M NOT SURE
                WEBALIZER IS USING THIS CONDITION)


                Condition "a" is probably almost never becoming true,
                because all visits during appear to come from the same
                IP, so there is a continuous stream of hits that
                appears to come from that IP (remember that you 2'5
                hits per hour for fr.wikinations.be).

                So a new visit is only started when, for example,
                someone uses IE 5.0 instead of IE 6.0., and then a
                another won't start until someone visits with other
                that IE 5.0. Because about 50% people will IE 6.0
                with eactly the same User Agent, there is a chance
                that you have 5 visitors in a row, all sharing a same
                visit because they use the same User Agent.


                If all visitors used the same User Agent, and you had
                a hit at least every 30 minutes, you would only get 3
                visits per month, because you have only 3 different
                sites!



                --- xirzon <moeller@...> wrote:

                > Hi,
                >
                > I'm the webmaster of:
                > http://fr.wikinations.org/
                >
                > There's a webalizer V2.01-10 generating daily stats
                > at:
                > http://fr.wikinations.be/stats/
                >
                > My problem is that the "Visits" statistics for every
                > day are much too
                > low. For example, on August 20, I am counting 274
                > unique IP addresses
                > and 1983 hits. Webalizer reports the number of hits
                > correctly, but
                > only reports 22 visits.
                >
                > I'm not sure why it is doing this. One theory is
                > that it's not
                > counting many of these hits as visits because of my
                > rewrite rules. For
                > example, a typical URL on the site will look like
                > this:
                >
                > http://fr.wikinations.be/Notaire
                >
                > There is no extension. I have set PageType in
                > webalizer.conf to:
                >
                > PageType *
                > PageType .php
                >
                > But this doesn't seem to do the trick. I also note
                > that the "Page"
                > counts seem accurate (i.e. slightly lower than the
                > number of hits)
                >
                > Any ideas how I could get an accurate visit count?
                >
                > Best,
                >
                > Erik
                >
                >
                >


                Enric Naval
                Estudiante de Informática de Gestión en la Udl (Lleida)
                GRIHO webalizer.conf
                http://griho.udl.es/webalizer/webalizer.conf.txt

                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail.yahoo.com
              • Bradford L. Barrett
                ... The Webalizer doesn t use the user agent for visit calculations.. only the amount of time (or first time) between requests from the same IP address.. and
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 26, 2005
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                  > There so many little visits because a new visit only
                  > starts when one of these conditions become true:
                  >
                  > a) more than 30 minutes pass without a hit from that
                  > IP
                  >
                  > b) a different User Agent is used (I'M NOT SURE
                  > WEBALIZER IS USING THIS CONDITION)

                  The Webalizer doesn't use the user agent for visit calculations.. only the
                  amount of time (or first time) between requests from the same IP address..
                  and the amount of time is configurable, but defaults to 30 minutes as
                  stated above. Also, only 'PageType' requests trigger visits.. if you
                  host images, PDF's, or other non-pagetype URLs that are linked to from
                  other sites, those won't be counted as visits (but the hits will still
                  be counted).

                  --
                  Bradford L. Barrett brad@...
                  A free electron in a sea of neutrons DoD#1750 KD4NAW

                  How do you give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt when you
                  know that if you were to throw it in a room with truth, you'd
                  risk a matter/anti-matter explosion? -- Nicholas Petreley IDG
                • xirzon
                  ... You re probably on to something. However, the logs appear to record the correct IPs, e.g. log entries look like this: fr.wikinations.be 213.189.XXX.XXX - -
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 29, 2005
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                    --- In webalizer@yahoogroups.com, Enric Naval <enventa2000@y...> wrote:
                    > Look at the Sites Top List. It only lists 3 different
                    > sites!
                    >
                    > Maybe your rewrite rules are preventing your webserver
                    > from writing in the logs the correct IPs of your
                    > visitors. It is writing instead your own IP as the
                    > visitor's IP.
                    >

                    You're probably on to something. However, the logs appear to record
                    the correct IPs, e.g. log entries look like this:

                    fr.wikinations.be 213.189.XXX.XXX - - [20/Aug/2005:07:17:28 +0200]
                    "GET /Sunpark_De_Haan
                    HTTP/1.1" 200 6966
                    "http://www.google.be/search?q=sunpark&hl=fr&cr=countryBE&lr=lang_fr
                    &sa=X&oi=lrtip7" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1)"

                    (IP censored for privacy reasons). I suspect that perhaps my CustomLog
                    format might not be recognized

                    CustomLog /var/log/nationsbe_access_log "%{Host}i %h %l %u %t \"%r\"
                    %>s %b \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-Agent}i\""

                    I will investigate that further. For the record, the rewrite rules are:

                    RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} !^/(upload|style|skins|backup|adm|stats)/
                    RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} !^/(redirect|texvc|index).php
                    RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} !^/favicon.ico
                    RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} !^/robots.txt
                    RewriteRule ^/(.*)$ /index.php?title=$1 [L,QSA]

                    Thanks for the help so far,

                    Erik
                  • Bradford L. Barrett
                    ... Thats not a supported format.. drop the %{Host}i so you have a standard combined format. You can stick it at the end of the log if you have to have it
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 29, 2005
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                      > CustomLog /var/log/nationsbe_access_log "%{Host}i %h %l %u %t \"%r\"
                      > %>s %b \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-Agent}i\""

                      Thats not a supported format.. drop the %{Host}i so you have a standard
                      'combined' format. You can stick it at the end of the log if you have
                      to have it included.

                      --
                      Bradford L. Barrett brad@...
                      A free electron in a sea of neutrons DoD#1750 KD4NAW

                      The only thing Micro$oft has done for society, is make people
                      believe that computers are inherently unreliable.
                    • Enric Naval
                      ... Erik, I posted an explanation about CustomLog and LogFormat some months ago. You can read it here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webalizer/message/3128 In
                      Message 10 of 10 , Aug 30, 2005
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                        --- "Bradford L. Barrett" <brad@...> wrote:

                        >
                        > > CustomLog /var/log/nationsbe_access_log "%{Host}i
                        > %h %l %u %t \"%r\"
                        > > %>s %b \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-Agent}i\""
                        >
                        > Thats not a supported format.. drop the %{Host}i so
                        > you have a standard
                        > 'combined' format. You can stick it at the end of
                        > the log if you have
                        > to have it included.
                        >


                        Erik, I posted an explanation about CustomLog and
                        LogFormat some months ago. You can read it here:

                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webalizer/message/3128

                        In your logfile, you shouldn't have
                        "fr.wikinations.be" at the start. The first "word"
                        should be the visitor's IP (where "word" is a space
                        delimited set of non-space and non-quote characters or
                        a quotes delimited set of characters). Like Barret
                        said, that part is wrong and the rest of the line is
                        correct.

                        Also, someone already had a problem similar to yours:

                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webalizer/message/3070

                        You can search more related messages where I posted
                        answers:

                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/webalizer/messagesearch?query=customlog%20logformat%20enric





                        Enric Naval
                        Estudiante de Informática de Gestión en la Udl (Lleida)
                        GRIHO webalizer.conf
                        http://griho.udl.es/webalizer/webalizer.conf.txt

                        __________________________________________________
                        Do You Yahoo!?
                        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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