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Re: Charles Ramsey's (loud) free speech

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  • rebecca494
    Following on my previous posting re: modeling behavior I would like to say this that Scottie Smith has been a fantastic role model in this district since I
    Message 1 of 24 , Jul 13 7:22 PM
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      Following on my previous posting re: modeling behavior I would like to
      say this that Scottie Smith has been a fantastic role model in this
      district since I first met her in 1991, during bankruptcy meetings.
      Now of course each of us is unique and has our own way, but I must
      hand it to her for her aplomb, tenacity and dedication, and being a
      very positive role model for our youth.

      Rebecca





      --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, rcs101@... wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > --Ralph:
      >
      > I have not had the opportunity to review the data as of yet, but
      plan to do so in the Fall. Also, it is not my contention that a
      teacher can provide all the necessary interventions that some of our
      students need, therefore, the District has an obligation to provide
      information to teachers and principals about all resources that are
      available to support the teachers and students, i.e. special education
      psychologists, Occupational therapist, Assistitive Technology,
      speech/lang. therapist, county mental health, behaviorist, drug
      intervention, early childhood intervention programs, and the list goes
      on. The law requires that before a child is suspended or expelled that
      all other means of corrective action has been taken. In many cases
      intervention has not happen, either because the parent are not aware
      of their rights, teachers do not know how to get the support needed,
      or when they request help, it is not given, and principals like
      teachers are in the same boat.
      >
      > It is so important that the SSCs included in their plan, how they
      will deal with students with learning disabilities, behavior problems;
      and include a list of all resources available, and guidelines for
      intervention. It is my believe that so many students suffer needlessly
      and for long periods of time, because the procedures that are in place
      to help correct the problems are not known by all stakeholders.
      Therefore, the district ends up sending students from one school to
      another, without using the available services that are to help
      students and teachers.
      >
      > There are behaviors and learning styles that the regular school can
      not handle, therefore, the need to provide the options/information
      about NPS (non public schools), residential schools, day treatment
      schools, etc., should be part of the in-service program of the
      district. It is my believe that all students want to be successful,
      therefore, they need the guidance of parents/professionals to help
      them. When there are resources available and the parent, teacher and
      student are not aware of them, this does not help the learning
      environment or the society.
      >
      > So, Ralph would you be willing to join me in reviewing the data in
      the Fall?
      >
      > Scottie Smith
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -------------- Original message ----------------------
      > From: "Ralph Bedwell" <bedwellr@...>
      > >
      > > Scottie,
      > >
      > > Have you analyzed the data? Please post particulars.
      > >
      > > You make it sound like administrators can expel students based on
      > > personal whim. This is not the case. It is very difficult to expel a
      > > student.
      > >
      > > I agree that in a perfect world -- or, really, just in the world that
      > > we should have -- if a kid was having such trouble functioning in the
      > > school environment that he was posing a threat to himself or others,
      > > or if he was such a chronic disrupter that other kids couldn't learn,
      > > etc. -- then he should get as immediate, powerful, and long-lasting
      > > personal intervention as it takes to get him on track and successful.
      > > But in a world where typically one adult is charged with the
      > > essentially impossible task of ensuring that 32 kids learn at their
      > > optimal level, it's just not going to happen. We can't even afford to
      > > put a teacher's aide into a typical classroom, so there's no way we
      > > can afford the adult manpower to give kids like this the intervention
      > > that they need and deserve.
      > >
      > > Ralph
      > >
      > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, rcs101@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --Ralph:
      > > >
      > > > I would have to disagree with you about most expulsion, when a
      > > district is expelling K-4 graders, I think there are other issues that
      > > need to be address. But the only way one can really get to the bottom
      > > of the problem is by analyzing the data on student suspensions and
      > > expulsion. You may find as with Charles that their conflicts was a
      > > momentary lack of judgment, or other issues that impacted their
      behavior.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Scottie Smith
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
      > > > From: "Ralph Bedwell" <bedwellr@>
      > > > >
      > > > > Is there other adult behavior at issue here for which excuses are
      > > > > being made other than Mr. Ramsey's?
      > > > >
      > > > > While I do strongly feel that a school district official's
      behavior
      > > > > needs to be exemplary and impeccable (within the limits of or
      normal
      > > > > human fallibility) in order to set the best possible example
      for young
      > > > > people, I think these are two separate issues.
      > > > >
      > > > > Most student expulsions are for serious misbehavior, usually a
      long
      > > > > pattern of misbehavior, that threatens either the physical
      safety of
      > > > > other students or school personnel (drugs, weapons, fighting,
      other
      > > > > forms of reckless behavior) and/or robs other students of their
      > > > > educational opportunity (chronic class disruption, etc.).
      Personally,
      > > > > based on my experience, I think we give way too many chances and
      > > > > tolerate way too much in our schools, not the opposite. It
      sounds just
      > > > > from an idealistic point of view to give endless "second
      chances" in
      > > > > order for kids to "learn from their mistakes", but at some
      point it is
      > > > > just unfair to everyone else involved (other students, their
      parents,
      > > > > teachers, administrators, etc.) to continue allowing a problem
      student
      > > > > to contribute to an unsafe, anti-academic atmosphere. So, finally,
      > > > > that student gets expelled. (However, in our district that seldom
      > > > > means a lot anyway; in the vast majority of cases the student
      is just
      > > > > moved from one school to another to be given a fresh start.)
      > > > >
      > > > > Ralph
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, rcs101@ wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --Correct me if I am wrong, I was called about this incident
      fairly
      > > > > recently and before it hit the paper. I was told that another
      board
      > > > > member M. Kronberg was also called to the school to stop the
      incident.
      > > > > Has anyone heard about her present? I am always concerned
      about adult
      > > > > behavior when we suspense and expel students on a daily basis for
      > > > > conflict and yet we as adults, provide excuses for our
      behavior. I am
      > > > > constantly trying to obtain counseling and conflict mediation for
      > > > > students in order for them to stay in school and learn from their
      > > > > mistakes. I believe the District need to look at how many
      students are
      > > > > expelled and what has been done, or could have been done to
      help the
      > > > > students before expelling them. The Times did a story on the
      increase
      > > > > in student expulsion in this district over the last year,
      therefore,
      > > > > the rules adults play by should have a direct impact on the
      type of
      > > > > rules imposed on students, yet many of the students have not
      had the
      > > > > opportunity with support, for a 2 or 3rd chance.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Scottie Smith
      > > > >
      > > > > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
      > > > > > From: "Charley Cowens" <charley.cowens@>
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Tammy,
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Well, why do you think there was a delay in the story
      versus the
      > > > > original
      > > > > > > incident?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Let's focus on what happened here. Mr. Temple, opinionated art
      > > > > teacher and
      > > > > > > citizen, was having a conversation with another citizen in a
      > > > > public place at
      > > > > > > El Cerrito HS. Mr. Ramsey, an opinionated government
      official and
      > > > > a total
      > > > > > > stranger to Mr. Temple, is present nearby and creates an
      at least
      > > > > > > proto-violent incident by getting into Mr. Temple's face about
      > > > > what he is
      > > > > > > saying. Mr. Ramsey then remonstrates with some volunteer (and
      > > > > citizen) who
      > > > > > > had told them all to pipe down because they were creating an
      > > incident.
      > > > > > > Another lesser government official has to eventually
      intervene to
      > > > > stop the
      > > > > > > incident.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > It doesn't matter what they're talking about. It's just bad,
      > > > > whether or not
      > > > > > > a formal response (prosecution, litigation, censure, or
      recall)
      > > > > makes sense
      > > > > > > in this particular situation. It doesn't matter what the
      > > > > conversation was
      > > > > > > about.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Finally, the purpose of the the Community Budget Advisory
      > > > > Committee is not
      > > > > > > to bring the steakholders (my preferred spelling) together. In
      > > fact,
      > > > > > > originally, employees of the District were not to be
      allowed to be
      > > > > member of
      > > > > > > the Committee at all (like with the Bond Oversight Committee).
      > > > > Even in the
      > > > > > > compromise that arose, collective bargaining units do not
      formally
      > > > > appoint
      > > > > > > members to the Committee. They are simply asked to suggest
      members
      > > > > in the
      > > > > > > appropriate category as part of membership outreach. Part
      of the
      > > > > antipathy
      > > > > > > of the teachers' union to our Committee is their idea that the
      > > > > Contract
      > > > > > > requires more involvement by the teachers' union than this in
      > > > > choosing the
      > > > > > > teacher member. While I don't agree with this, I don't
      consider it
      > > > > to be an
      > > > > > > absurd position.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Charley Cowens
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > On 7/9/07, Tammera Campbell <tammeracampbell@> wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I am curious as to why this story did not surface at the
      time of
      > > > > the event
      > > > > > > > rather than months later. Just an observation.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I am hoping that everyone will focus on the content of the
      > > > > conversation
      > > > > > > > that was occurring rather than the actual incident. Why
      is it
      > > > > that Mr.
      > > > > > > > Ramsey and the teacher were so upset and arguing? Could it
      > > be that
      > > > > > > > communication has not yet occurred at all levels
      regarding the
      > > > > > > > budget? Let's be honest, how many people out there have
      really
      > > > > spent time
      > > > > > > > understanding public educational funding, the WCCUSD
      budget, the
      > > > > > > > ramifications of declining enrollment, increased health care
      > > > > costs and the
      > > > > > > > impact of small schools? How many of us understand that
      in the
      > > > > last year
      > > > > > > > Kaiser increased their premiums by 33% for our retirees?
      How
      > > > > many of us can
      > > > > > > > quote the amount of money lost due to declining
      enrollment? How
      > > > > many of us
      > > > > > > > can tell you where the parcel tax money has gone these last
      > > > > couple of
      > > > > > > > years? How many teachers attend the WCCUSD Budget Advisory
      > > Comittee
      > > > > > > > meetings except one (Eduardo Martinez)? How many of us
      follow
      > > > > the school
      > > > > > > > board meetings and bother to understand the budget
      > > > > > > > presentations? Why is it that UTR has not come to the
      Budget
      > > > > Advisory
      > > > > > > > meetings to dispute and debate the numbers? The point
      of the
      > > > > committee was
      > > > > > > > to bring stakeholders in from across this district, to
      analyze
      > > > > numbers,
      > > > > > > > questions the numbers, and help each other out to
      understand the
      > > > > numbers and
      > > > > > > > the bigger picture. Where is UTR's leadership to help
      us with
      > > > > their side of
      > > > > > > > the story? Local One has been there.
      > > > > > > > Tammy Campbell
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > gregorychang <gregorychang@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > I read the article more carefully and it does say
      > > that the
      > > > > > > > teacher
      > > > > > > > alleges that Charles Ramsey threatened him. But it doesnt
      > > say what
      > > > > > > > shape or form the threat took. Did Mr. Ramsey say he was
      going
      > > > > to kill
      > > > > > > > the teacher or beat the teacher up? According to the
      teacher's
      > > > > letter
      > > > > > > > cited in the article, ``I believe that he tried to use his
      > > > > school board
      > > > > > > > authority along with his aggressive physical demeanor to
      > > > > intimidate me."
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > So it doesnt give any details on what the alleged threat
      was.
      > > > > Did the
      > > > > > > > teacher just feel scared because he is physically smaller?
      > > Was he
      > > > > > > > frightened because Mr. Ramsey pointed a finger at him?
      That is
      > > > > not the
      > > > > > > > same as a verbal threat, in my opinion.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Also, the teacher has worked for WCCUSD for 32 years yet he
      > > cannot
      > > > > > > > recognize Mr Ramsey, who has been on the school board for 14
      > > years.
      > > > > > > > What kind of message does that send?
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Finally, the teacher said he fears for his job security. Is
      > > this a
      > > > > > > > legitimate fear? Can a school board member have a
      teacher fired
      > > > > over an
      > > > > > > > argument? Is there any precedent of this happening before? I
      > > > > would hope
      > > > > > > > our teachers have more rights than that and I feel pretty
      > > confident
      > > > > > > > that UTR wouldnt stand for something like that.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Mr. Ramsey was definitely wrong to yell at the teacher,
      that is
      > > > > no way
      > > > > > > > to communicate a viewpoint. But, based on the facts included
      > > in the
      > > > > > > > article, the teacher has blown it out of proportion.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
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