Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues

Expand Messages
  • Eduardo Martinez
    The board should exert their influence so the district doesn t waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      The board should exert their influence so the district
      doesn't waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases
      that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
      of the school district when the administation refuses
      to act ethically? Who should guard the purse strings
      when behavior is senselessly scattering dollars at
      district lawyers when the money could be supporting
      the instruction on the children? Trying all venues
      before going to court is the best course of action,
      but it seems the district is intent on wasting yet
      thousands more dollars covering their indiscretions.
      So sad...
      Yet I feel we must bark up every tree in hopes that
      others don't continue running down the wrong path.
      IMHO everyone should be barking as loud as possible.

      Eduardo

      --- axharris@... wrote:

      > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you
      > expect the (approx,)
      > $500 a month elected representatives of the public
      > to do about it? If you
      > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR
      > won't help you, you should
      > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up
      > the wrong tree with the
      > school board.
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
      > removed]
      >
      >


      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail.yahoo.com
    • axharris@sbcglobal.net
      Americans have a right to due process. Moreover, the individual school board members do not exert as much personal influence over personnel matters as you seem
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Americans have a right to due process. Moreover, the individual school board
        members do not exert as much personal influence over personnel matters as
        you seem to think. Lastly, the school board is essentially powerless to
        mediate personality conflicts. They can't even get along with each other,
        and anyway, none of them cares much about the schools in Richmond, where I
        happen to reside.

        Harrassment is a serious issue. If it can be proven, it should be pressed.

        Cordially,
        Adrienne




        _____

        From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez
        Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:53 PM
        To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues



        The board should exert their influence so the district
        doesn't waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases
        that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
        of the school district when the administation refuses
        to act ethically? Who should guard the purse strings
        when behavior is senselessly scattering dollars at
        district lawyers when the money could be supporting
        the instruction on the children? Trying all venues
        before going to court is the best course of action,
        but it seems the district is intent on wasting yet
        thousands more dollars covering their indiscretions.
        So sad...
        Yet I feel we must bark up every tree in hopes that
        others don't continue running down the wrong path.
        IMHO everyone should be barking as loud as possible.

        Eduardo

        --- axharris@sbcglobal. <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net wrote:

        > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you
        > expect the (approx,)
        > $500 a month elected representatives of the public
        > to do about it? If you
        > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR
        > won't help you, you should
        > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up
        > the wrong tree with the
        > school board.
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Charley Cowens
        Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam requirement) and the purely
        Message 3 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
          authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam
          requirement) and the purely budgetary veto power of Dr. Fred. The
          grievance procedure should deal with the bulk of personal type cases
          (like getting shorted in your paycheck), but there are three possible
          situations where the grievance procedure approach breaks down: (1)
          where administrative retaliation is applied to suppress opinions about
          school policy, (2) where there is a wide pattern to a particular kind
          of grievance, and (3) where the sheer volume of grievances is
          excessive. An example of (1) is writing up a teacher for what they
          said as a member of a site council. As for (3), I'd be curious to know
          if anyone has any statistics about the grievance rate in this district
          over time and compared to other districts.

          Charley Cowens

          On 9/4/06, axharris@... <axharris@...> wrote:
          > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,)
          > $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you
          > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR won't help you, you should
          > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up the wrong tree with the
          > school board.
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • axharris@sbcglobal.net
          What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant to the union contracts. Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR conflict with the educational
          Message 4 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant to the union contracts.
            Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR conflict with the
            educational function of its cadre of state-certified professional teachers?
            If so, this is an issue the public needs to embrace


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Eduardo Martinez
            Would you please include the quote to which you refer? I have no idea what you consider fanciful, but the district acts pursuant to their wims. That is why
            Message 5 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Would you please include the quote to which you refer?
              I have no idea what you consider fanciful, but the
              district acts pursuant to their wims. That is why
              there are so many grievances. It is the industrial
              employment model imposed by the district that is the
              problem and their attempts to force scripted
              curriculum greatly adversely impacts the educational
              function of state-certified professional teachers.
              And yes, I do believe this is an issue the public
              needs to embrace.

              Eduardo

              --- axharris@... wrote:

              > What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant
              > to the union contracts.
              > Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR
              > conflict with the
              > educational function of its cadre of state-certified
              > professional teachers?
              > If so, this is an issue the public needs to embrace
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >


              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com
            • troubled_h2o
              Eduardo: Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District. That is the quote which I described as fanciful.
              Message 6 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Eduardo:
                "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                authority over the District."
                That is the quote which I described as "fanciful."
              • Charley Cowens
                Adrienne, The full sentence was Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit
                Message 7 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Adrienne,

                  The full sentence was "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the
                  ultimate controlling
                  authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam
                  requirement) and the purely budgetary veto power of Dr. Fred." I
                  should have thrown in contracts it has entered into, but that seemed
                  sort of obvious.

                  The collective bargaining agreement for teachers is between the School
                  Board and the UTR, not among the School Board, the staff, and the
                  UTR. I don't see how directing staff to abstain from the sort of
                  actions involved in the Downer 5 incidents or to remedy them could be
                  a violation of the collective bargaining agreement between teachers
                  and the School Board.

                  Charley Cowens

                  On 9/4/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                  > Eduardo:
                  > "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                  > authority over the District."
                  > That is the quote which I described as "fanciful."
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • troubled_h2o
                  Charley- The school board doesn t direct the staff. The school board directs the superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that s why his job
                  Message 8 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Charley-
                    The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board directs the
                    superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's why
                    his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is displeased
                    with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him at any
                    time with 3 votes.

                    Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                    Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                    curriculum always interests me.

                    Adrienne
                  • Charley Cowens
                    Adrienne- Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board: 35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any powers delegated
                    Message 9 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Adrienne-

                      Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board:

                      35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any
                      powers delegated by law to it or to the district of which it is the
                      governing board, and shall discharge any duty imposed by law upon it
                      or upon the district of which it is the governing board, and may
                      delegate to an officer or employee of the district any of those
                      powers or duties. The governing board, however, retains ultimate
                      responsibility over the performance of those powers or duties so
                      delegated.

                      This seem rather broad to me. My main point about what I dimly
                      remember to be the beginning of this thread was that the Board _can_
                      intervene as much as it wants in matters like the Downer 5. Whether it
                      _should_ is the real question.

                      The starting bone of contention at Downer was mostly about the reading
                      (oh, I mean literacy) program.

                      Charley Cowens


                      On 9/5/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                      > Charley-
                      > The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board directs the
                      > superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's why
                      > his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is displeased
                      > with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him at any
                      > time with 3 votes.
                      >
                      > Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                      > Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                      > curriculum always interests me.
                      >
                      > Adrienne
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Elizabeth Jaeger
                      Yes, the reading program but also the toxic environment created by a series of administrators. ... it ... _can_ ... Whether it ... reading ... directs the ...
                      Message 10 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Yes, the reading program but also the toxic environment created by a
                        series of administrators.

                        --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Charley Cowens"
                        <charley.cowens@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Adrienne-
                        >
                        > Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board:
                        >
                        > 35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any
                        > powers delegated by law to it or to the district of which it is the
                        > governing board, and shall discharge any duty imposed by law upon
                        it
                        > or upon the district of which it is the governing board, and may
                        > delegate to an officer or employee of the district any of those
                        > powers or duties. The governing board, however, retains ultimate
                        > responsibility over the performance of those powers or duties so
                        > delegated.
                        >
                        > This seem rather broad to me. My main point about what I dimly
                        > remember to be the beginning of this thread was that the Board
                        _can_
                        > intervene as much as it wants in matters like the Downer 5.
                        Whether it
                        > _should_ is the real question.
                        >
                        > The starting bone of contention at Downer was mostly about the
                        reading
                        > (oh, I mean literacy) program.
                        >
                        > Charley Cowens
                        >
                        >
                        > On 9/5/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                        > > Charley-
                        > > The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board
                        directs the
                        > > superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's
                        why
                        > > his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is
                        displeased
                        > > with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him
                        at any
                        > > time with 3 votes.
                        > >
                        > > Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                        > > Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                        > > curriculum always interests me.
                        > >
                        > > Adrienne
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • troubled_h2o
                        Good stuff, Charley. The gospel of the Ed Code.
                        Message 11 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Good stuff, Charley. The gospel of the Ed Code.
                        • Charley Cowens
                          Scottie- Here s the dates/times for 3 candidate forums sponsored by LWV/PTA/WCCUSD, moderated by the League of Women Voters, West Contra Costa Chapter.
                          Message 12 of 26 , Sep 7, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Scottie-

                            Here's the dates/times for 3 candidate forums sponsored by
                            LWV/PTA/WCCUSD, moderated by the League of Women Voters, West Contra
                            Costa Chapter.

                            Wednesday Oct. 11 @ Kennedy HS, 7-9 p.m.
                            Wednesday Oct. 25 @ Hercules HS, 7-9 p.m.
                            Saturday, Oct. 28 @ De Anza HS, 10 a.m. - 12 noon

                            If anyone hears of any other dates please share.

                            Charley Cowens

                            On 9/3/06, rcs101@... <rcs101@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > --I think the all the questions are good ones and Elizabeth's should be asked right out. By the way, Charlie, could you post a list of dates and locations for candidates' forums?
                            >
                            > Scottie Smith
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > -------------- Original message ----------------------
                            > From: <axharris@...>
                            > > Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > _____
                            > >
                            > > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                            > > Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                            > > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                            > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                            > > How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                            > > professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                            > > flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                            > > their services.
                            > >
                            > > Charley Cowens
                            > >
                            > > On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                            > > <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                            > > > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                            > > > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                            > > > will based on seniority?
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.