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Re: Downer 5 muck continues

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  • Elizabeth Jaeger
    Would that UTR leadership had any interest in instruction whatsoever. They were of absolutely no help during the whole Downer 5 ordeal and, in some ways, a
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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      Would that UTR leadership had any interest in instruction whatsoever.
      They were of absolutely no help during the whole Downer 5 ordeal and,
      in some ways, a hindrance since they managed to convince other
      teachers that we were being "looked after." The only grievances they
      seem equipped to handle are those related to technicalities (e.g., did
      a principal follow the contractual guidelines in conducting a teacher
      evaluation, NOT was a teacher harrassed during the course of the
      evaluation process).

      --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "troubled_h2o" <axharris@...> wrote:
      >
      > This sounds like a problem that should be grievanced through UTR.
      > That's what they get paid for.
      >
    • axharris@sbcglobal.net
      As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,) $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you have
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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        As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,)
        $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you
        have properly documented the harassment, and UTR won't help you, you should
        contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up the wrong tree with the
        school board.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Eduardo Martinez
        The board should exert their influence so the district doesn t waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
        Message 3 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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          The board should exert their influence so the district
          doesn't waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases
          that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
          of the school district when the administation refuses
          to act ethically? Who should guard the purse strings
          when behavior is senselessly scattering dollars at
          district lawyers when the money could be supporting
          the instruction on the children? Trying all venues
          before going to court is the best course of action,
          but it seems the district is intent on wasting yet
          thousands more dollars covering their indiscretions.
          So sad...
          Yet I feel we must bark up every tree in hopes that
          others don't continue running down the wrong path.
          IMHO everyone should be barking as loud as possible.

          Eduardo

          --- axharris@... wrote:

          > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you
          > expect the (approx,)
          > $500 a month elected representatives of the public
          > to do about it? If you
          > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR
          > won't help you, you should
          > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up
          > the wrong tree with the
          > school board.
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          >
          >


          __________________________________________________
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        • axharris@sbcglobal.net
          Americans have a right to due process. Moreover, the individual school board members do not exert as much personal influence over personnel matters as you seem
          Message 4 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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            Americans have a right to due process. Moreover, the individual school board
            members do not exert as much personal influence over personnel matters as
            you seem to think. Lastly, the school board is essentially powerless to
            mediate personality conflicts. They can't even get along with each other,
            and anyway, none of them cares much about the schools in Richmond, where I
            happen to reside.

            Harrassment is a serious issue. If it can be proven, it should be pressed.

            Cordially,
            Adrienne




            _____

            From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez
            Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:53 PM
            To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues



            The board should exert their influence so the district
            doesn't waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases
            that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
            of the school district when the administation refuses
            to act ethically? Who should guard the purse strings
            when behavior is senselessly scattering dollars at
            district lawyers when the money could be supporting
            the instruction on the children? Trying all venues
            before going to court is the best course of action,
            but it seems the district is intent on wasting yet
            thousands more dollars covering their indiscretions.
            So sad...
            Yet I feel we must bark up every tree in hopes that
            others don't continue running down the wrong path.
            IMHO everyone should be barking as loud as possible.

            Eduardo

            --- axharris@sbcglobal. <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net wrote:

            > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you
            > expect the (approx,)
            > $500 a month elected representatives of the public
            > to do about it? If you
            > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR
            > won't help you, you should
            > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up
            > the wrong tree with the
            > school board.
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > removed]
            >
            >

            __________________________________________________
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            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Charley Cowens
            Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam requirement) and the purely
            Message 5 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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              Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
              authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam
              requirement) and the purely budgetary veto power of Dr. Fred. The
              grievance procedure should deal with the bulk of personal type cases
              (like getting shorted in your paycheck), but there are three possible
              situations where the grievance procedure approach breaks down: (1)
              where administrative retaliation is applied to suppress opinions about
              school policy, (2) where there is a wide pattern to a particular kind
              of grievance, and (3) where the sheer volume of grievances is
              excessive. An example of (1) is writing up a teacher for what they
              said as a member of a site council. As for (3), I'd be curious to know
              if anyone has any statistics about the grievance rate in this district
              over time and compared to other districts.

              Charley Cowens

              On 9/4/06, axharris@... <axharris@...> wrote:
              > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,)
              > $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you
              > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR won't help you, you should
              > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up the wrong tree with the
              > school board.
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
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            • axharris@sbcglobal.net
              What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant to the union contracts. Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR conflict with the educational
              Message 6 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant to the union contracts.
                Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR conflict with the
                educational function of its cadre of state-certified professional teachers?
                If so, this is an issue the public needs to embrace


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Eduardo Martinez
                Would you please include the quote to which you refer? I have no idea what you consider fanciful, but the district acts pursuant to their wims. That is why
                Message 7 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                  Would you please include the quote to which you refer?
                  I have no idea what you consider fanciful, but the
                  district acts pursuant to their wims. That is why
                  there are so many grievances. It is the industrial
                  employment model imposed by the district that is the
                  problem and their attempts to force scripted
                  curriculum greatly adversely impacts the educational
                  function of state-certified professional teachers.
                  And yes, I do believe this is an issue the public
                  needs to embrace.

                  Eduardo

                  --- axharris@... wrote:

                  > What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant
                  > to the union contracts.
                  > Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR
                  > conflict with the
                  > educational function of its cadre of state-certified
                  > professional teachers?
                  > If so, this is an issue the public needs to embrace
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  >
                  >


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                • troubled_h2o
                  Eduardo: Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District. That is the quote which I described as fanciful.
                  Message 8 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                    Eduardo:
                    "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                    authority over the District."
                    That is the quote which I described as "fanciful."
                  • Charley Cowens
                    Adrienne, The full sentence was Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit
                    Message 9 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
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                      Adrienne,

                      The full sentence was "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the
                      ultimate controlling
                      authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam
                      requirement) and the purely budgetary veto power of Dr. Fred." I
                      should have thrown in contracts it has entered into, but that seemed
                      sort of obvious.

                      The collective bargaining agreement for teachers is between the School
                      Board and the UTR, not among the School Board, the staff, and the
                      UTR. I don't see how directing staff to abstain from the sort of
                      actions involved in the Downer 5 incidents or to remedy them could be
                      a violation of the collective bargaining agreement between teachers
                      and the School Board.

                      Charley Cowens

                      On 9/4/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                      > Eduardo:
                      > "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                      > authority over the District."
                      > That is the quote which I described as "fanciful."
                      >
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                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                    • troubled_h2o
                      Charley- The school board doesn t direct the staff. The school board directs the superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that s why his job
                      Message 10 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
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                        Charley-
                        The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board directs the
                        superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's why
                        his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is displeased
                        with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him at any
                        time with 3 votes.

                        Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                        Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                        curriculum always interests me.

                        Adrienne
                      • Charley Cowens
                        Adrienne- Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board: 35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any powers delegated
                        Message 11 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
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                          Adrienne-

                          Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board:

                          35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any
                          powers delegated by law to it or to the district of which it is the
                          governing board, and shall discharge any duty imposed by law upon it
                          or upon the district of which it is the governing board, and may
                          delegate to an officer or employee of the district any of those
                          powers or duties. The governing board, however, retains ultimate
                          responsibility over the performance of those powers or duties so
                          delegated.

                          This seem rather broad to me. My main point about what I dimly
                          remember to be the beginning of this thread was that the Board _can_
                          intervene as much as it wants in matters like the Downer 5. Whether it
                          _should_ is the real question.

                          The starting bone of contention at Downer was mostly about the reading
                          (oh, I mean literacy) program.

                          Charley Cowens


                          On 9/5/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                          > Charley-
                          > The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board directs the
                          > superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's why
                          > his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is displeased
                          > with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him at any
                          > time with 3 votes.
                          >
                          > Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                          > Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                          > curriculum always interests me.
                          >
                          > Adrienne
                          >
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                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                        • Elizabeth Jaeger
                          Yes, the reading program but also the toxic environment created by a series of administrators. ... it ... _can_ ... Whether it ... reading ... directs the ...
                          Message 12 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
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                            Yes, the reading program but also the toxic environment created by a
                            series of administrators.

                            --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Charley Cowens"
                            <charley.cowens@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Adrienne-
                            >
                            > Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board:
                            >
                            > 35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any
                            > powers delegated by law to it or to the district of which it is the
                            > governing board, and shall discharge any duty imposed by law upon
                            it
                            > or upon the district of which it is the governing board, and may
                            > delegate to an officer or employee of the district any of those
                            > powers or duties. The governing board, however, retains ultimate
                            > responsibility over the performance of those powers or duties so
                            > delegated.
                            >
                            > This seem rather broad to me. My main point about what I dimly
                            > remember to be the beginning of this thread was that the Board
                            _can_
                            > intervene as much as it wants in matters like the Downer 5.
                            Whether it
                            > _should_ is the real question.
                            >
                            > The starting bone of contention at Downer was mostly about the
                            reading
                            > (oh, I mean literacy) program.
                            >
                            > Charley Cowens
                            >
                            >
                            > On 9/5/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                            > > Charley-
                            > > The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board
                            directs the
                            > > superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's
                            why
                            > > his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is
                            displeased
                            > > with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him
                            at any
                            > > time with 3 votes.
                            > >
                            > > Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                            > > Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                            > > curriculum always interests me.
                            > >
                            > > Adrienne
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
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                          • troubled_h2o
                            Good stuff, Charley. The gospel of the Ed Code.
                            Message 13 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
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                              Good stuff, Charley. The gospel of the Ed Code.
                            • Charley Cowens
                              Scottie- Here s the dates/times for 3 candidate forums sponsored by LWV/PTA/WCCUSD, moderated by the League of Women Voters, West Contra Costa Chapter.
                              Message 14 of 26 , Sep 7, 2006
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                                Scottie-

                                Here's the dates/times for 3 candidate forums sponsored by
                                LWV/PTA/WCCUSD, moderated by the League of Women Voters, West Contra
                                Costa Chapter.

                                Wednesday Oct. 11 @ Kennedy HS, 7-9 p.m.
                                Wednesday Oct. 25 @ Hercules HS, 7-9 p.m.
                                Saturday, Oct. 28 @ De Anza HS, 10 a.m. - 12 noon

                                If anyone hears of any other dates please share.

                                Charley Cowens

                                On 9/3/06, rcs101@... <rcs101@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > --I think the all the questions are good ones and Elizabeth's should be asked right out. By the way, Charlie, could you post a list of dates and locations for candidates' forums?
                                >
                                > Scottie Smith
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > -------------- Original message ----------------------
                                > From: <axharris@...>
                                > > Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > _____
                                > >
                                > > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                                > > Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                                > > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                                > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                                > > How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                                > > professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                                > > flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                                > > their services.
                                > >
                                > > Charley Cowens
                                > >
                                > > On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                                > > <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                                > > > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                                > > > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                                > > > will based on seniority?
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
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                                > > >
                                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > > >
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                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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