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Re: Downer 5 muck continues

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  • troubled_h2o
    This sounds like a problem that should be grievanced through UTR. That s what they get paid for.
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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      This sounds like a problem that should be grievanced through UTR.
      That's what they get paid for.
    • Elizabeth Jaeger
      Would that UTR leadership had any interest in instruction whatsoever. They were of absolutely no help during the whole Downer 5 ordeal and, in some ways, a
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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        Would that UTR leadership had any interest in instruction whatsoever.
        They were of absolutely no help during the whole Downer 5 ordeal and,
        in some ways, a hindrance since they managed to convince other
        teachers that we were being "looked after." The only grievances they
        seem equipped to handle are those related to technicalities (e.g., did
        a principal follow the contractual guidelines in conducting a teacher
        evaluation, NOT was a teacher harrassed during the course of the
        evaluation process).

        --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "troubled_h2o" <axharris@...> wrote:
        >
        > This sounds like a problem that should be grievanced through UTR.
        > That's what they get paid for.
        >
      • axharris@sbcglobal.net
        As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,) $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you have
        Message 3 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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          As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,)
          $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you
          have properly documented the harassment, and UTR won't help you, you should
          contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up the wrong tree with the
          school board.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Eduardo Martinez
          The board should exert their influence so the district doesn t waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
          Message 4 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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            The board should exert their influence so the district
            doesn't waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases
            that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
            of the school district when the administation refuses
            to act ethically? Who should guard the purse strings
            when behavior is senselessly scattering dollars at
            district lawyers when the money could be supporting
            the instruction on the children? Trying all venues
            before going to court is the best course of action,
            but it seems the district is intent on wasting yet
            thousands more dollars covering their indiscretions.
            So sad...
            Yet I feel we must bark up every tree in hopes that
            others don't continue running down the wrong path.
            IMHO everyone should be barking as loud as possible.

            Eduardo

            --- axharris@... wrote:

            > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you
            > expect the (approx,)
            > $500 a month elected representatives of the public
            > to do about it? If you
            > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR
            > won't help you, you should
            > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up
            > the wrong tree with the
            > school board.
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > removed]
            >
            >


            __________________________________________________
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          • axharris@sbcglobal.net
            Americans have a right to due process. Moreover, the individual school board members do not exert as much personal influence over personnel matters as you seem
            Message 5 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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              Americans have a right to due process. Moreover, the individual school board
              members do not exert as much personal influence over personnel matters as
              you seem to think. Lastly, the school board is essentially powerless to
              mediate personality conflicts. They can't even get along with each other,
              and anyway, none of them cares much about the schools in Richmond, where I
              happen to reside.

              Harrassment is a serious issue. If it can be proven, it should be pressed.

              Cordially,
              Adrienne




              _____

              From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez
              Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:53 PM
              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues



              The board should exert their influence so the district
              doesn't waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases
              that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
              of the school district when the administation refuses
              to act ethically? Who should guard the purse strings
              when behavior is senselessly scattering dollars at
              district lawyers when the money could be supporting
              the instruction on the children? Trying all venues
              before going to court is the best course of action,
              but it seems the district is intent on wasting yet
              thousands more dollars covering their indiscretions.
              So sad...
              Yet I feel we must bark up every tree in hopes that
              others don't continue running down the wrong path.
              IMHO everyone should be barking as loud as possible.

              Eduardo

              --- axharris@sbcglobal. <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net wrote:

              > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you
              > expect the (approx,)
              > $500 a month elected representatives of the public
              > to do about it? If you
              > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR
              > won't help you, you should
              > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up
              > the wrong tree with the
              > school board.
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >

              __________________________________________________
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              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Charley Cowens
              Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam requirement) and the purely
              Message 6 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam
                requirement) and the purely budgetary veto power of Dr. Fred. The
                grievance procedure should deal with the bulk of personal type cases
                (like getting shorted in your paycheck), but there are three possible
                situations where the grievance procedure approach breaks down: (1)
                where administrative retaliation is applied to suppress opinions about
                school policy, (2) where there is a wide pattern to a particular kind
                of grievance, and (3) where the sheer volume of grievances is
                excessive. An example of (1) is writing up a teacher for what they
                said as a member of a site council. As for (3), I'd be curious to know
                if anyone has any statistics about the grievance rate in this district
                over time and compared to other districts.

                Charley Cowens

                On 9/4/06, axharris@... <axharris@...> wrote:
                > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,)
                > $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you
                > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR won't help you, you should
                > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up the wrong tree with the
                > school board.
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • axharris@sbcglobal.net
                What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant to the union contracts. Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR conflict with the educational
                Message 7 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                  What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant to the union contracts.
                  Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR conflict with the
                  educational function of its cadre of state-certified professional teachers?
                  If so, this is an issue the public needs to embrace


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Eduardo Martinez
                  Would you please include the quote to which you refer? I have no idea what you consider fanciful, but the district acts pursuant to their wims. That is why
                  Message 8 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                    Would you please include the quote to which you refer?
                    I have no idea what you consider fanciful, but the
                    district acts pursuant to their wims. That is why
                    there are so many grievances. It is the industrial
                    employment model imposed by the district that is the
                    problem and their attempts to force scripted
                    curriculum greatly adversely impacts the educational
                    function of state-certified professional teachers.
                    And yes, I do believe this is an issue the public
                    needs to embrace.

                    Eduardo

                    --- axharris@... wrote:

                    > What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant
                    > to the union contracts.
                    > Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR
                    > conflict with the
                    > educational function of its cadre of state-certified
                    > professional teachers?
                    > If so, this is an issue the public needs to embrace
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    >
                    >


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                  • troubled_h2o
                    Eduardo: Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District. That is the quote which I described as fanciful.
                    Message 9 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                      Eduardo:
                      "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                      authority over the District."
                      That is the quote which I described as "fanciful."
                    • Charley Cowens
                      Adrienne, The full sentence was Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit
                      Message 10 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
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                        Adrienne,

                        The full sentence was "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the
                        ultimate controlling
                        authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam
                        requirement) and the purely budgetary veto power of Dr. Fred." I
                        should have thrown in contracts it has entered into, but that seemed
                        sort of obvious.

                        The collective bargaining agreement for teachers is between the School
                        Board and the UTR, not among the School Board, the staff, and the
                        UTR. I don't see how directing staff to abstain from the sort of
                        actions involved in the Downer 5 incidents or to remedy them could be
                        a violation of the collective bargaining agreement between teachers
                        and the School Board.

                        Charley Cowens

                        On 9/4/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                        > Eduardo:
                        > "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                        > authority over the District."
                        > That is the quote which I described as "fanciful."
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                        >
                      • troubled_h2o
                        Charley- The school board doesn t direct the staff. The school board directs the superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that s why his job
                        Message 11 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
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                          Charley-
                          The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board directs the
                          superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's why
                          his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is displeased
                          with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him at any
                          time with 3 votes.

                          Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                          Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                          curriculum always interests me.

                          Adrienne
                        • Charley Cowens
                          Adrienne- Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board: 35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any powers delegated
                          Message 12 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
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                            Adrienne-

                            Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board:

                            35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any
                            powers delegated by law to it or to the district of which it is the
                            governing board, and shall discharge any duty imposed by law upon it
                            or upon the district of which it is the governing board, and may
                            delegate to an officer or employee of the district any of those
                            powers or duties. The governing board, however, retains ultimate
                            responsibility over the performance of those powers or duties so
                            delegated.

                            This seem rather broad to me. My main point about what I dimly
                            remember to be the beginning of this thread was that the Board _can_
                            intervene as much as it wants in matters like the Downer 5. Whether it
                            _should_ is the real question.

                            The starting bone of contention at Downer was mostly about the reading
                            (oh, I mean literacy) program.

                            Charley Cowens


                            On 9/5/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                            > Charley-
                            > The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board directs the
                            > superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's why
                            > his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is displeased
                            > with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him at any
                            > time with 3 votes.
                            >
                            > Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                            > Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                            > curriculum always interests me.
                            >
                            > Adrienne
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
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                          • Elizabeth Jaeger
                            Yes, the reading program but also the toxic environment created by a series of administrators. ... it ... _can_ ... Whether it ... reading ... directs the ...
                            Message 13 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
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                              Yes, the reading program but also the toxic environment created by a
                              series of administrators.

                              --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Charley Cowens"
                              <charley.cowens@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Adrienne-
                              >
                              > Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board:
                              >
                              > 35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any
                              > powers delegated by law to it or to the district of which it is the
                              > governing board, and shall discharge any duty imposed by law upon
                              it
                              > or upon the district of which it is the governing board, and may
                              > delegate to an officer or employee of the district any of those
                              > powers or duties. The governing board, however, retains ultimate
                              > responsibility over the performance of those powers or duties so
                              > delegated.
                              >
                              > This seem rather broad to me. My main point about what I dimly
                              > remember to be the beginning of this thread was that the Board
                              _can_
                              > intervene as much as it wants in matters like the Downer 5.
                              Whether it
                              > _should_ is the real question.
                              >
                              > The starting bone of contention at Downer was mostly about the
                              reading
                              > (oh, I mean literacy) program.
                              >
                              > Charley Cowens
                              >
                              >
                              > On 9/5/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                              > > Charley-
                              > > The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board
                              directs the
                              > > superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's
                              why
                              > > his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is
                              displeased
                              > > with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him
                              at any
                              > > time with 3 votes.
                              > >
                              > > Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                              > > Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                              > > curriculum always interests me.
                              > >
                              > > Adrienne
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
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                            • troubled_h2o
                              Good stuff, Charley. The gospel of the Ed Code.
                              Message 14 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
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                                Good stuff, Charley. The gospel of the Ed Code.
                              • Charley Cowens
                                Scottie- Here s the dates/times for 3 candidate forums sponsored by LWV/PTA/WCCUSD, moderated by the League of Women Voters, West Contra Costa Chapter.
                                Message 15 of 26 , Sep 7, 2006
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                                  Scottie-

                                  Here's the dates/times for 3 candidate forums sponsored by
                                  LWV/PTA/WCCUSD, moderated by the League of Women Voters, West Contra
                                  Costa Chapter.

                                  Wednesday Oct. 11 @ Kennedy HS, 7-9 p.m.
                                  Wednesday Oct. 25 @ Hercules HS, 7-9 p.m.
                                  Saturday, Oct. 28 @ De Anza HS, 10 a.m. - 12 noon

                                  If anyone hears of any other dates please share.

                                  Charley Cowens

                                  On 9/3/06, rcs101@... <rcs101@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --I think the all the questions are good ones and Elizabeth's should be asked right out. By the way, Charlie, could you post a list of dates and locations for candidates' forums?
                                  >
                                  > Scottie Smith
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -------------- Original message ----------------------
                                  > From: <axharris@...>
                                  > > Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > _____
                                  > >
                                  > > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  > > Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                                  > > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                                  > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                                  > > How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                                  > > professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                                  > > flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                                  > > their services.
                                  > >
                                  > > Charley Cowens
                                  > >
                                  > > On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                                  > > <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                                  > > > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                                  > > > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                                  > > > will based on seniority?
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
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                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
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                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
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