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Re: Downer 5 muck continues

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  • troubled_h2o
    How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at will based on
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
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      How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
      the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
      will based on seniority?
    • Charley Cowens
      Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question: How do we make our flatland schools places where experienced professionals will want to
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
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        Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
        How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
        professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
        flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
        their services.

        Charley Cowens

        On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
        > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
        > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
        > will based on seniority?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Elizabeth Jaeger
        Or, more importantly, how will you deal with administrators who remove teachers from the flatland schools they are committed to and send them to hills schools
        Message 3 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
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          Or, more importantly, how will you deal with administrators who remove
          teachers from the flatland schools they are committed to and send them
          to hills schools which need them less? All of the Downer 5 were
          transferred to higher socioeconomic status schools.

          --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "troubled_h2o" <axharris@...> wrote:
          >
          > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
          > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools
          at
          > will based on seniority?
          >
        • axharris@sbcglobal.net
          Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large? _____ From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charley Cowens
          Message 4 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
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            Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?


            _____

            From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Charley Cowens
            Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
            To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues



            Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
            How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
            professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
            flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
            their services.

            Charley Cowens

            On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
            <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
            > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
            > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
            > will based on seniority?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • rcs101@att.net
            --I think the all the questions are good ones and Elizabeth s should be asked right out. By the way, Charlie, could you post a list of dates and locations for
            Message 5 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
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              --I think the all the questions are good ones and Elizabeth's should be asked right out. By the way, Charlie, could you post a list of dates and locations for candidates' forums?

              Scottie Smith



              -------------- Original message ----------------------
              From: <axharris@...>
              > Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of Charley Cowens
              > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
              > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues
              >
              >
              >
              > Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
              > How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
              > professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
              > flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
              > their services.
              >
              > Charley Cowens
              >
              > On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
              > <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
              > > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
              > > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
              > > will based on seniority?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Charley Cowens
              Scottie, When people give this information to me, I l post it. Charley
              Message 6 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
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                Scottie,

                When people give this information to me, I'l post it.

                Charley

                On 9/3/06, rcs101@... <rcs101@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > --I think the all the questions are good ones and Elizabeth's should be asked right out. By the way, Charlie, could you post a list of dates and locations for candidates' forums?
                >
                > Scottie Smith
                >
                >
                >
                > -------------- Original message ----------------------
                > From: <axharris@...>
                > > Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?
                > >
                > >
                > > _____
                > >
                > > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                > > Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                > > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                > > How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                > > professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                > > flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                > > their services.
                > >
                > > Charley Cowens
                > >
                > > On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                > > <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                > > > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                > > > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                > > > will based on seniority?
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
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                > Yahoo! Groups Links
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              • Charley Cowens
                Yes, I ve thought that before, but the costs of dividing may simply outweigh any benefits. Is there some connection you re trying to make to what we re talking
                Message 7 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
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                  Yes, I've thought that before, but the costs of dividing may simply
                  outweigh any benefits. Is there some connection you're trying to make
                  to what we're talking about in this thread?

                  Also, who are you? You said you were an ex-school board member. Your
                  email user name is "axharris". There are two such people I know of
                  with Harris in their names. Are you Adrienne Harris-Pitts?

                  Charley Cowens

                  On 9/3/06, axharris@... <axharris@...> wrote:
                  > Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                  > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                  > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                  > How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                  > professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                  > flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                  > their services.
                  >
                  > Charley Cowens
                  >
                  > On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                  > <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                  > > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                  > > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                  > > will based on seniority?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • troubled_h2o
                  This sounds like a problem that should be grievanced through UTR. That s what they get paid for.
                  Message 8 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                    This sounds like a problem that should be grievanced through UTR.
                    That's what they get paid for.
                  • Elizabeth Jaeger
                    Would that UTR leadership had any interest in instruction whatsoever. They were of absolutely no help during the whole Downer 5 ordeal and, in some ways, a
                    Message 9 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                      Would that UTR leadership had any interest in instruction whatsoever.
                      They were of absolutely no help during the whole Downer 5 ordeal and,
                      in some ways, a hindrance since they managed to convince other
                      teachers that we were being "looked after." The only grievances they
                      seem equipped to handle are those related to technicalities (e.g., did
                      a principal follow the contractual guidelines in conducting a teacher
                      evaluation, NOT was a teacher harrassed during the course of the
                      evaluation process).

                      --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "troubled_h2o" <axharris@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > This sounds like a problem that should be grievanced through UTR.
                      > That's what they get paid for.
                      >
                    • axharris@sbcglobal.net
                      As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,) $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you have
                      Message 10 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                        As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,)
                        $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you
                        have properly documented the harassment, and UTR won't help you, you should
                        contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up the wrong tree with the
                        school board.



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Eduardo Martinez
                        The board should exert their influence so the district doesn t waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
                        Message 11 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                          The board should exert their influence so the district
                          doesn't waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases
                          that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
                          of the school district when the administation refuses
                          to act ethically? Who should guard the purse strings
                          when behavior is senselessly scattering dollars at
                          district lawyers when the money could be supporting
                          the instruction on the children? Trying all venues
                          before going to court is the best course of action,
                          but it seems the district is intent on wasting yet
                          thousands more dollars covering their indiscretions.
                          So sad...
                          Yet I feel we must bark up every tree in hopes that
                          others don't continue running down the wrong path.
                          IMHO everyone should be barking as loud as possible.

                          Eduardo

                          --- axharris@... wrote:

                          > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you
                          > expect the (approx,)
                          > $500 a month elected representatives of the public
                          > to do about it? If you
                          > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR
                          > won't help you, you should
                          > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up
                          > the wrong tree with the
                          > school board.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          >
                          >


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                        • axharris@sbcglobal.net
                          Americans have a right to due process. Moreover, the individual school board members do not exert as much personal influence over personnel matters as you seem
                          Message 12 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                            Americans have a right to due process. Moreover, the individual school board
                            members do not exert as much personal influence over personnel matters as
                            you seem to think. Lastly, the school board is essentially powerless to
                            mediate personality conflicts. They can't even get along with each other,
                            and anyway, none of them cares much about the schools in Richmond, where I
                            happen to reside.

                            Harrassment is a serious issue. If it can be proven, it should be pressed.

                            Cordially,
                            Adrienne




                            _____

                            From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez
                            Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:53 PM
                            To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues



                            The board should exert their influence so the district
                            doesn't waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases
                            that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
                            of the school district when the administation refuses
                            to act ethically? Who should guard the purse strings
                            when behavior is senselessly scattering dollars at
                            district lawyers when the money could be supporting
                            the instruction on the children? Trying all venues
                            before going to court is the best course of action,
                            but it seems the district is intent on wasting yet
                            thousands more dollars covering their indiscretions.
                            So sad...
                            Yet I feel we must bark up every tree in hopes that
                            others don't continue running down the wrong path.
                            IMHO everyone should be barking as loud as possible.

                            Eduardo

                            --- axharris@sbcglobal. <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net wrote:

                            > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you
                            > expect the (approx,)
                            > $500 a month elected representatives of the public
                            > to do about it? If you
                            > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR
                            > won't help you, you should
                            > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up
                            > the wrong tree with the
                            > school board.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            >
                            >

                            __________________________________________________
                            Do You Yahoo!?
                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Charley Cowens
                            Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam requirement) and the purely
                            Message 13 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                              Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                              authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam
                              requirement) and the purely budgetary veto power of Dr. Fred. The
                              grievance procedure should deal with the bulk of personal type cases
                              (like getting shorted in your paycheck), but there are three possible
                              situations where the grievance procedure approach breaks down: (1)
                              where administrative retaliation is applied to suppress opinions about
                              school policy, (2) where there is a wide pattern to a particular kind
                              of grievance, and (3) where the sheer volume of grievances is
                              excessive. An example of (1) is writing up a teacher for what they
                              said as a member of a site council. As for (3), I'd be curious to know
                              if anyone has any statistics about the grievance rate in this district
                              over time and compared to other districts.

                              Charley Cowens

                              On 9/4/06, axharris@... <axharris@...> wrote:
                              > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,)
                              > $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you
                              > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR won't help you, you should
                              > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up the wrong tree with the
                              > school board.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • axharris@sbcglobal.net
                              What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant to the union contracts. Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR conflict with the educational
                              Message 14 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                                What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant to the union contracts.
                                Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR conflict with the
                                educational function of its cadre of state-certified professional teachers?
                                If so, this is an issue the public needs to embrace


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Eduardo Martinez
                                Would you please include the quote to which you refer? I have no idea what you consider fanciful, but the district acts pursuant to their wims. That is why
                                Message 15 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                                  Would you please include the quote to which you refer?
                                  I have no idea what you consider fanciful, but the
                                  district acts pursuant to their wims. That is why
                                  there are so many grievances. It is the industrial
                                  employment model imposed by the district that is the
                                  problem and their attempts to force scripted
                                  curriculum greatly adversely impacts the educational
                                  function of state-certified professional teachers.
                                  And yes, I do believe this is an issue the public
                                  needs to embrace.

                                  Eduardo

                                  --- axharris@... wrote:

                                  > What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant
                                  > to the union contracts.
                                  > Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR
                                  > conflict with the
                                  > educational function of its cadre of state-certified
                                  > professional teachers?
                                  > If so, this is an issue the public needs to embrace
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                  > removed]
                                  >
                                  >


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                                • troubled_h2o
                                  Eduardo: Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District. That is the quote which I described as fanciful.
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                                    Eduardo:
                                    "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                                    authority over the District."
                                    That is the quote which I described as "fanciful."
                                  • Charley Cowens
                                    Adrienne, The full sentence was Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
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                                      Adrienne,

                                      The full sentence was "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the
                                      ultimate controlling
                                      authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam
                                      requirement) and the purely budgetary veto power of Dr. Fred." I
                                      should have thrown in contracts it has entered into, but that seemed
                                      sort of obvious.

                                      The collective bargaining agreement for teachers is between the School
                                      Board and the UTR, not among the School Board, the staff, and the
                                      UTR. I don't see how directing staff to abstain from the sort of
                                      actions involved in the Downer 5 incidents or to remedy them could be
                                      a violation of the collective bargaining agreement between teachers
                                      and the School Board.

                                      Charley Cowens

                                      On 9/4/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                                      > Eduardo:
                                      > "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                                      > authority over the District."
                                      > That is the quote which I described as "fanciful."
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • troubled_h2o
                                      Charley- The school board doesn t direct the staff. The school board directs the superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that s why his job
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
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                                        Charley-
                                        The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board directs the
                                        superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's why
                                        his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is displeased
                                        with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him at any
                                        time with 3 votes.

                                        Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                                        Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                                        curriculum always interests me.

                                        Adrienne
                                      • Charley Cowens
                                        Adrienne- Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board: 35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any powers delegated
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
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                                          Adrienne-

                                          Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board:

                                          35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any
                                          powers delegated by law to it or to the district of which it is the
                                          governing board, and shall discharge any duty imposed by law upon it
                                          or upon the district of which it is the governing board, and may
                                          delegate to an officer or employee of the district any of those
                                          powers or duties. The governing board, however, retains ultimate
                                          responsibility over the performance of those powers or duties so
                                          delegated.

                                          This seem rather broad to me. My main point about what I dimly
                                          remember to be the beginning of this thread was that the Board _can_
                                          intervene as much as it wants in matters like the Downer 5. Whether it
                                          _should_ is the real question.

                                          The starting bone of contention at Downer was mostly about the reading
                                          (oh, I mean literacy) program.

                                          Charley Cowens


                                          On 9/5/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                                          > Charley-
                                          > The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board directs the
                                          > superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's why
                                          > his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is displeased
                                          > with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him at any
                                          > time with 3 votes.
                                          >
                                          > Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                                          > Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                                          > curriculum always interests me.
                                          >
                                          > Adrienne
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • Elizabeth Jaeger
                                          Yes, the reading program but also the toxic environment created by a series of administrators. ... it ... _can_ ... Whether it ... reading ... directs the ...
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
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                                            Yes, the reading program but also the toxic environment created by a
                                            series of administrators.

                                            --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Charley Cowens"
                                            <charley.cowens@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Adrienne-
                                            >
                                            > Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board:
                                            >
                                            > 35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any
                                            > powers delegated by law to it or to the district of which it is the
                                            > governing board, and shall discharge any duty imposed by law upon
                                            it
                                            > or upon the district of which it is the governing board, and may
                                            > delegate to an officer or employee of the district any of those
                                            > powers or duties. The governing board, however, retains ultimate
                                            > responsibility over the performance of those powers or duties so
                                            > delegated.
                                            >
                                            > This seem rather broad to me. My main point about what I dimly
                                            > remember to be the beginning of this thread was that the Board
                                            _can_
                                            > intervene as much as it wants in matters like the Downer 5.
                                            Whether it
                                            > _should_ is the real question.
                                            >
                                            > The starting bone of contention at Downer was mostly about the
                                            reading
                                            > (oh, I mean literacy) program.
                                            >
                                            > Charley Cowens
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > On 9/5/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                                            > > Charley-
                                            > > The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board
                                            directs the
                                            > > superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's
                                            why
                                            > > his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is
                                            displeased
                                            > > with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him
                                            at any
                                            > > time with 3 votes.
                                            > >
                                            > > Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                                            > > Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                                            > > curriculum always interests me.
                                            > >
                                            > > Adrienne
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
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                                          • troubled_h2o
                                            Good stuff, Charley. The gospel of the Ed Code.
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
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                                              Good stuff, Charley. The gospel of the Ed Code.
                                            • Charley Cowens
                                              Scottie- Here s the dates/times for 3 candidate forums sponsored by LWV/PTA/WCCUSD, moderated by the League of Women Voters, West Contra Costa Chapter.
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Sep 7, 2006
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                                                Scottie-

                                                Here's the dates/times for 3 candidate forums sponsored by
                                                LWV/PTA/WCCUSD, moderated by the League of Women Voters, West Contra
                                                Costa Chapter.

                                                Wednesday Oct. 11 @ Kennedy HS, 7-9 p.m.
                                                Wednesday Oct. 25 @ Hercules HS, 7-9 p.m.
                                                Saturday, Oct. 28 @ De Anza HS, 10 a.m. - 12 noon

                                                If anyone hears of any other dates please share.

                                                Charley Cowens

                                                On 9/3/06, rcs101@... <rcs101@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --I think the all the questions are good ones and Elizabeth's should be asked right out. By the way, Charlie, could you post a list of dates and locations for candidates' forums?
                                                >
                                                > Scottie Smith
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > -------------- Original message ----------------------
                                                > From: <axharris@...>
                                                > > Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > _____
                                                > >
                                                > > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                > > Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                                                > > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                                                > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                                                > > How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                                                > > professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                                                > > flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                                                > > their services.
                                                > >
                                                > > Charley Cowens
                                                > >
                                                > > On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                                                > > <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                                                > > > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                                                > > > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                                                > > > will based on seniority?
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                                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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