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Re: [wccusdtalk] Downer 5 muck continues

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  • Charley Cowens
    Scottie- I have been considering a question like this as part of the PTA question list. Here s a first stab at it: One of the recent controversies in the
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 2, 2006
      Scottie-

      I have been considering a question like this as part of the PTA
      question list. Here's a first stab at it:

      One of the recent controversies in the District involved a group of
      mostly experienced teachers usually known as the "Downer 5" who were
      disciplined (including forcible transfers and reprimands) after they
      expressed their opposition to how certain changes in teaching
      practices were being implemented. These teaching practices involved
      using a much more scripted closely controlled approach overseen by
      District mentors. What do you think the Board should do, if anything,
      to ensure that teachers are not being disciplined for their opinions
      about policies at their schools? Also, how much control should
      teachers have over how they teach in their classrooms and how mush
      oversight should there be?

      Charley Cowens

      On 9/1/06, rcs101@... <rcs101@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > --Elizabeth:
      >
      > This is a good question for the school board candidates. I would most certainly like to know what they have in terms of information and their position on what has happen at Downer to 5 of it "highly qualified" teachers. Particularly, since the Downer teachers have been transferred out to predominately hill schools and replaced with much less qualified staff.
      >
      > Scottie Smith
      >
      >
      >
      > -------------- Original message ----------------------
      > From: "Elizabeth Jaeger" <elizabethjaeger@...>
      > > Yesterday I received via certified mail a letter from Graciela Uribes
      > > stating that as per Section 626.4 of the California Penal Code she
      > > was
      > > banning me from the Downer campus because I have visited Downer on
      > > various occasions without checking in at the office. The specific
      > > date she cited was 8/18. I came to Downer on that day at the request
      > > of Ms. Uribes via the secretary Billie. She had boxed books belonging
      > > to Downer (and clearly marked as such) and wanted me to pick them up.
      > > When I looked through the books and realized (as I had suspected)
      > > they
      > > were not mine, I told her this and she argued with me. I responded
      > > that if she were offering them to me as a gift, I would take them but
      > > that they did not belong to me. So just in case Ms. Uribes asks you
      > > to come to Downer, you might want to inquire whether, if you comply,
      > > you'll be banned from returning on further occasions.
      > >
      > > I actually am relatively unconcerned about not being able to be
      > > visit. The great majority of my friends are gone now -- either
      > > fleeing on their own or being removed against their will. However,
      > > it seems to set a bad precendent if people -- parents, for example --
      > > can be barred from a school WITH NO WARNING simply because they
      > > neglect to check-in at the office.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • troubled_h2o
      How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at will based on
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
        How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
        the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
        will based on seniority?
      • Elizabeth Jaeger
        Charlie, I very much appreciate your interest in bringing this to the attention of potential school board members. I think your question is well-written and
        Message 3 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
          Charlie,

          I very much appreciate your interest in bringing this to the
          attention of potential school board members. I think your question
          is well-written and to the point. Thanks.

          Elizabeth

          --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Charley Cowens"
          <charley.cowens@...> wrote:
          >
          > Scottie-
          >
          > I have been considering a question like this as part of the PTA
          > question list. Here's a first stab at it:
          >
          > One of the recent controversies in the District involved a group of
          > mostly experienced teachers usually known as the "Downer 5" who
          were
          > disciplined (including forcible transfers and reprimands) after
          they
          > expressed their opposition to how certain changes in teaching
          > practices were being implemented. These teaching practices involved
          > using a much more scripted closely controlled approach overseen by
          > District mentors. What do you think the Board should do, if
          anything,
          > to ensure that teachers are not being disciplined for their
          opinions
          > about policies at their schools? Also, how much control should
          > teachers have over how they teach in their classrooms and how mush
          > oversight should there be?
          >
          > Charley Cowens
          >
          > On 9/1/06, rcs101@... <rcs101@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > --Elizabeth:
          > >
          > > This is a good question for the school board candidates. I would
          most certainly like to know what they have in terms of information
          and their position on what has happen at Downer to 5 of it "highly
          qualified" teachers. Particularly, since the Downer teachers have
          been transferred out to predominately hill schools and replaced with
          much less qualified staff.
          > >
          > > Scottie Smith
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
          > > From: "Elizabeth Jaeger" <elizabethjaeger@...>
          > > > Yesterday I received via certified mail a letter from Graciela
          Uribes
          > > > stating that as per Section 626.4 of the California Penal Code
          she
          > > > was
          > > > banning me from the Downer campus because I have visited
          Downer on
          > > > various occasions without checking in at the office. The
          specific
          > > > date she cited was 8/18. I came to Downer on that day at the
          request
          > > > of Ms. Uribes via the secretary Billie. She had boxed books
          belonging
          > > > to Downer (and clearly marked as such) and wanted me to pick
          them up.
          > > > When I looked through the books and realized (as I had
          suspected)
          > > > they
          > > > were not mine, I told her this and she argued with me. I
          responded
          > > > that if she were offering them to me as a gift, I would take
          them but
          > > > that they did not belong to me. So just in case Ms. Uribes
          asks you
          > > > to come to Downer, you might want to inquire whether, if you
          comply,
          > > > you'll be banned from returning on further occasions.
          > > >
          > > > I actually am relatively unconcerned about not being able to be
          > > > visit. The great majority of my friends are gone now -- either
          > > > fleeing on their own or being removed against their will.
          However,
          > > > it seems to set a bad precendent if people -- parents, for
          example --
          > > > can be barred from a school WITH NO WARNING simply because
          they
          > > > neglect to check-in at the office.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Charley Cowens
          Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question: How do we make our flatland schools places where experienced professionals will want to
          Message 4 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
            Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
            How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
            professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
            flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
            their services.

            Charley Cowens

            On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
            > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
            > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
            > will based on seniority?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Elizabeth Jaeger
            Or, more importantly, how will you deal with administrators who remove teachers from the flatland schools they are committed to and send them to hills schools
            Message 5 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
              Or, more importantly, how will you deal with administrators who remove
              teachers from the flatland schools they are committed to and send them
              to hills schools which need them less? All of the Downer 5 were
              transferred to higher socioeconomic status schools.

              --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "troubled_h2o" <axharris@...> wrote:
              >
              > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
              > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools
              at
              > will based on seniority?
              >
            • axharris@sbcglobal.net
              Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large? _____ From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charley Cowens
              Message 6 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
                Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?


                _____

                From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues



                Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                their services.

                Charley Cowens

                On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                > will based on seniority?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • rcs101@att.net
                --I think the all the questions are good ones and Elizabeth s should be asked right out. By the way, Charlie, could you post a list of dates and locations for
                Message 7 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
                  --I think the all the questions are good ones and Elizabeth's should be asked right out. By the way, Charlie, could you post a list of dates and locations for candidates' forums?

                  Scottie Smith



                  -------------- Original message ----------------------
                  From: <axharris@...>
                  > Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?
                  >
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                  > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                  > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                  > How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                  > professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                  > flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                  > their services.
                  >
                  > Charley Cowens
                  >
                  > On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                  > <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                  > > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                  > > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                  > > will based on seniority?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Charley Cowens
                  Scottie, When people give this information to me, I l post it. Charley
                  Message 8 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
                    Scottie,

                    When people give this information to me, I'l post it.

                    Charley

                    On 9/3/06, rcs101@... <rcs101@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > --I think the all the questions are good ones and Elizabeth's should be asked right out. By the way, Charlie, could you post a list of dates and locations for candidates' forums?
                    >
                    > Scottie Smith
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -------------- Original message ----------------------
                    > From: <axharris@...>
                    > > Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > _____
                    > >
                    > > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                    > > Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                    > > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                    > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                    > > How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                    > > professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                    > > flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                    > > their services.
                    > >
                    > > Charley Cowens
                    > >
                    > > On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                    > > <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                    > > > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                    > > > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                    > > > will based on seniority?
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Charley Cowens
                    Yes, I ve thought that before, but the costs of dividing may simply outweigh any benefits. Is there some connection you re trying to make to what we re talking
                    Message 9 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
                      Yes, I've thought that before, but the costs of dividing may simply
                      outweigh any benefits. Is there some connection you're trying to make
                      to what we're talking about in this thread?

                      Also, who are you? You said you were an ex-school board member. Your
                      email user name is "axharris". There are two such people I know of
                      with Harris in their names. Are you Adrienne Harris-Pitts?

                      Charley Cowens

                      On 9/3/06, axharris@... <axharris@...> wrote:
                      > Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?
                      >
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                      > Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                      > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                      > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                      > How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                      > professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                      > flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                      > their services.
                      >
                      > Charley Cowens
                      >
                      > On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                      > <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                      > > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                      > > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                      > > will based on seniority?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • troubled_h2o
                      This sounds like a problem that should be grievanced through UTR. That s what they get paid for.
                      Message 10 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
                        This sounds like a problem that should be grievanced through UTR.
                        That's what they get paid for.
                      • Elizabeth Jaeger
                        Would that UTR leadership had any interest in instruction whatsoever. They were of absolutely no help during the whole Downer 5 ordeal and, in some ways, a
                        Message 11 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
                          Would that UTR leadership had any interest in instruction whatsoever.
                          They were of absolutely no help during the whole Downer 5 ordeal and,
                          in some ways, a hindrance since they managed to convince other
                          teachers that we were being "looked after." The only grievances they
                          seem equipped to handle are those related to technicalities (e.g., did
                          a principal follow the contractual guidelines in conducting a teacher
                          evaluation, NOT was a teacher harrassed during the course of the
                          evaluation process).

                          --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "troubled_h2o" <axharris@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > This sounds like a problem that should be grievanced through UTR.
                          > That's what they get paid for.
                          >
                        • axharris@sbcglobal.net
                          As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,) $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you have
                          Message 12 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
                            As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,)
                            $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you
                            have properly documented the harassment, and UTR won't help you, you should
                            contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up the wrong tree with the
                            school board.



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Eduardo Martinez
                            The board should exert their influence so the district doesn t waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
                            Message 13 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
                              The board should exert their influence so the district
                              doesn't waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases
                              that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
                              of the school district when the administation refuses
                              to act ethically? Who should guard the purse strings
                              when behavior is senselessly scattering dollars at
                              district lawyers when the money could be supporting
                              the instruction on the children? Trying all venues
                              before going to court is the best course of action,
                              but it seems the district is intent on wasting yet
                              thousands more dollars covering their indiscretions.
                              So sad...
                              Yet I feel we must bark up every tree in hopes that
                              others don't continue running down the wrong path.
                              IMHO everyone should be barking as loud as possible.

                              Eduardo

                              --- axharris@... wrote:

                              > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you
                              > expect the (approx,)
                              > $500 a month elected representatives of the public
                              > to do about it? If you
                              > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR
                              > won't help you, you should
                              > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up
                              > the wrong tree with the
                              > school board.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              >
                              >


                              __________________________________________________
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                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                            • axharris@sbcglobal.net
                              Americans have a right to due process. Moreover, the individual school board members do not exert as much personal influence over personnel matters as you seem
                              Message 14 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
                                Americans have a right to due process. Moreover, the individual school board
                                members do not exert as much personal influence over personnel matters as
                                you seem to think. Lastly, the school board is essentially powerless to
                                mediate personality conflicts. They can't even get along with each other,
                                and anyway, none of them cares much about the schools in Richmond, where I
                                happen to reside.

                                Harrassment is a serious issue. If it can be proven, it should be pressed.

                                Cordially,
                                Adrienne




                                _____

                                From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                                Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez
                                Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:53 PM
                                To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues



                                The board should exert their influence so the district
                                doesn't waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases
                                that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
                                of the school district when the administation refuses
                                to act ethically? Who should guard the purse strings
                                when behavior is senselessly scattering dollars at
                                district lawyers when the money could be supporting
                                the instruction on the children? Trying all venues
                                before going to court is the best course of action,
                                but it seems the district is intent on wasting yet
                                thousands more dollars covering their indiscretions.
                                So sad...
                                Yet I feel we must bark up every tree in hopes that
                                others don't continue running down the wrong path.
                                IMHO everyone should be barking as loud as possible.

                                Eduardo

                                --- axharris@sbcglobal. <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net wrote:

                                > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you
                                > expect the (approx,)
                                > $500 a month elected representatives of the public
                                > to do about it? If you
                                > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR
                                > won't help you, you should
                                > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up
                                > the wrong tree with the
                                > school board.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > removed]
                                >
                                >

                                __________________________________________________
                                Do You Yahoo!?
                                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                http://mail. <http://mail.yahoo.com> yahoo.com





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Charley Cowens
                                Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam requirement) and the purely
                                Message 15 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
                                  Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                                  authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam
                                  requirement) and the purely budgetary veto power of Dr. Fred. The
                                  grievance procedure should deal with the bulk of personal type cases
                                  (like getting shorted in your paycheck), but there are three possible
                                  situations where the grievance procedure approach breaks down: (1)
                                  where administrative retaliation is applied to suppress opinions about
                                  school policy, (2) where there is a wide pattern to a particular kind
                                  of grievance, and (3) where the sheer volume of grievances is
                                  excessive. An example of (1) is writing up a teacher for what they
                                  said as a member of a site council. As for (3), I'd be curious to know
                                  if anyone has any statistics about the grievance rate in this district
                                  over time and compared to other districts.

                                  Charley Cowens

                                  On 9/4/06, axharris@... <axharris@...> wrote:
                                  > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,)
                                  > $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you
                                  > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR won't help you, you should
                                  > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up the wrong tree with the
                                  > school board.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • axharris@sbcglobal.net
                                  What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant to the union contracts. Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR conflict with the educational
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
                                    What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant to the union contracts.
                                    Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR conflict with the
                                    educational function of its cadre of state-certified professional teachers?
                                    If so, this is an issue the public needs to embrace


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Eduardo Martinez
                                    Would you please include the quote to which you refer? I have no idea what you consider fanciful, but the district acts pursuant to their wims. That is why
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
                                      Would you please include the quote to which you refer?
                                      I have no idea what you consider fanciful, but the
                                      district acts pursuant to their wims. That is why
                                      there are so many grievances. It is the industrial
                                      employment model imposed by the district that is the
                                      problem and their attempts to force scripted
                                      curriculum greatly adversely impacts the educational
                                      function of state-certified professional teachers.
                                      And yes, I do believe this is an issue the public
                                      needs to embrace.

                                      Eduardo

                                      --- axharris@... wrote:

                                      > What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant
                                      > to the union contracts.
                                      > Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR
                                      > conflict with the
                                      > educational function of its cadre of state-certified
                                      > professional teachers?
                                      > If so, this is an issue the public needs to embrace
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                      > removed]
                                      >
                                      >


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                                    • troubled_h2o
                                      Eduardo: Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District. That is the quote which I described as fanciful.
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
                                        Eduardo:
                                        "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                                        authority over the District."
                                        That is the quote which I described as "fanciful."
                                      • Charley Cowens
                                        Adrienne, The full sentence was Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
                                          Adrienne,

                                          The full sentence was "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the
                                          ultimate controlling
                                          authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam
                                          requirement) and the purely budgetary veto power of Dr. Fred." I
                                          should have thrown in contracts it has entered into, but that seemed
                                          sort of obvious.

                                          The collective bargaining agreement for teachers is between the School
                                          Board and the UTR, not among the School Board, the staff, and the
                                          UTR. I don't see how directing staff to abstain from the sort of
                                          actions involved in the Downer 5 incidents or to remedy them could be
                                          a violation of the collective bargaining agreement between teachers
                                          and the School Board.

                                          Charley Cowens

                                          On 9/4/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                                          > Eduardo:
                                          > "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                                          > authority over the District."
                                          > That is the quote which I described as "fanciful."
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                        • troubled_h2o
                                          Charley- The school board doesn t direct the staff. The school board directs the superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that s why his job
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
                                            Charley-
                                            The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board directs the
                                            superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's why
                                            his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is displeased
                                            with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him at any
                                            time with 3 votes.

                                            Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                                            Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                                            curriculum always interests me.

                                            Adrienne
                                          • Charley Cowens
                                            Adrienne- Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board: 35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any powers delegated
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
                                              Adrienne-

                                              Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board:

                                              35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any
                                              powers delegated by law to it or to the district of which it is the
                                              governing board, and shall discharge any duty imposed by law upon it
                                              or upon the district of which it is the governing board, and may
                                              delegate to an officer or employee of the district any of those
                                              powers or duties. The governing board, however, retains ultimate
                                              responsibility over the performance of those powers or duties so
                                              delegated.

                                              This seem rather broad to me. My main point about what I dimly
                                              remember to be the beginning of this thread was that the Board _can_
                                              intervene as much as it wants in matters like the Downer 5. Whether it
                                              _should_ is the real question.

                                              The starting bone of contention at Downer was mostly about the reading
                                              (oh, I mean literacy) program.

                                              Charley Cowens


                                              On 9/5/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                                              > Charley-
                                              > The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board directs the
                                              > superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's why
                                              > his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is displeased
                                              > with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him at any
                                              > time with 3 votes.
                                              >
                                              > Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                                              > Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                                              > curriculum always interests me.
                                              >
                                              > Adrienne
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
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                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                            • Elizabeth Jaeger
                                              Yes, the reading program but also the toxic environment created by a series of administrators. ... it ... _can_ ... Whether it ... reading ... directs the ...
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
                                                Yes, the reading program but also the toxic environment created by a
                                                series of administrators.

                                                --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Charley Cowens"
                                                <charley.cowens@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Adrienne-
                                                >
                                                > Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board:
                                                >
                                                > 35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any
                                                > powers delegated by law to it or to the district of which it is the
                                                > governing board, and shall discharge any duty imposed by law upon
                                                it
                                                > or upon the district of which it is the governing board, and may
                                                > delegate to an officer or employee of the district any of those
                                                > powers or duties. The governing board, however, retains ultimate
                                                > responsibility over the performance of those powers or duties so
                                                > delegated.
                                                >
                                                > This seem rather broad to me. My main point about what I dimly
                                                > remember to be the beginning of this thread was that the Board
                                                _can_
                                                > intervene as much as it wants in matters like the Downer 5.
                                                Whether it
                                                > _should_ is the real question.
                                                >
                                                > The starting bone of contention at Downer was mostly about the
                                                reading
                                                > (oh, I mean literacy) program.
                                                >
                                                > Charley Cowens
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > On 9/5/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                                                > > Charley-
                                                > > The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board
                                                directs the
                                                > > superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's
                                                why
                                                > > his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is
                                                displeased
                                                > > with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him
                                                at any
                                                > > time with 3 votes.
                                                > >
                                                > > Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                                                > > Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                                                > > curriculum always interests me.
                                                > >
                                                > > Adrienne
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >
                                                > >
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                                                >
                                              • troubled_h2o
                                                Good stuff, Charley. The gospel of the Ed Code.
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
                                                  Good stuff, Charley. The gospel of the Ed Code.
                                                • Charley Cowens
                                                  Scottie- Here s the dates/times for 3 candidate forums sponsored by LWV/PTA/WCCUSD, moderated by the League of Women Voters, West Contra Costa Chapter.
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Sep 7, 2006
                                                    Scottie-

                                                    Here's the dates/times for 3 candidate forums sponsored by
                                                    LWV/PTA/WCCUSD, moderated by the League of Women Voters, West Contra
                                                    Costa Chapter.

                                                    Wednesday Oct. 11 @ Kennedy HS, 7-9 p.m.
                                                    Wednesday Oct. 25 @ Hercules HS, 7-9 p.m.
                                                    Saturday, Oct. 28 @ De Anza HS, 10 a.m. - 12 noon

                                                    If anyone hears of any other dates please share.

                                                    Charley Cowens

                                                    On 9/3/06, rcs101@... <rcs101@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --I think the all the questions are good ones and Elizabeth's should be asked right out. By the way, Charlie, could you post a list of dates and locations for candidates' forums?
                                                    >
                                                    > Scottie Smith
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > -------------- Original message ----------------------
                                                    > From: <axharris@...>
                                                    > > Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > _____
                                                    > >
                                                    > > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                    > > Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                                                    > > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                                                    > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                                                    > > How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                                                    > > professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                                                    > > flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                                                    > > their services.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Charley Cowens
                                                    > >
                                                    > > On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                                                    > > <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                                                    > > > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                                                    > > > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                                                    > > > will based on seniority?
                                                    > > >
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                                                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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