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Downer 5 muck continues

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  • Elizabeth Jaeger
    Yesterday I received via certified mail a letter from Graciela Uribes stating that as per Section 626.4 of the California Penal Code she was banning me from
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 1, 2006
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      Yesterday I received via certified mail a letter from Graciela Uribes
      stating that as per Section 626.4 of the California Penal Code she
      was
      banning me from the Downer campus because I have visited Downer on
      various occasions without checking in at the office. The specific
      date she cited was 8/18. I came to Downer on that day at the request
      of Ms. Uribes via the secretary Billie. She had boxed books belonging
      to Downer (and clearly marked as such) and wanted me to pick them up.
      When I looked through the books and realized (as I had suspected)
      they
      were not mine, I told her this and she argued with me. I responded
      that if she were offering them to me as a gift, I would take them but
      that they did not belong to me. So just in case Ms. Uribes asks you
      to come to Downer, you might want to inquire whether, if you comply,
      you'll be banned from returning on further occasions.

      I actually am relatively unconcerned about not being able to be
      visit. The great majority of my friends are gone now -- either
      fleeing on their own or being removed against their will. However,
      it seems to set a bad precendent if people -- parents, for example --
      can be barred from a school WITH NO WARNING simply because they
      neglect to check-in at the office.
    • rcs101@att.net
      --Elizabeth: This is a good question for the school board candidates. I would most certainly like to know what they have in terms of information and their
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 1, 2006
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        --Elizabeth:

        This is a good question for the school board candidates. I would most certainly like to know what they have in terms of information and their position on what has happen at Downer to 5 of it "highly qualified" teachers. Particularly, since the Downer teachers have been transferred out to predominately hill schools and replaced with much less qualified staff.

        Scottie Smith



        -------------- Original message ----------------------
        From: "Elizabeth Jaeger" <elizabethjaeger@...>
        > Yesterday I received via certified mail a letter from Graciela Uribes
        > stating that as per Section 626.4 of the California Penal Code she
        > was
        > banning me from the Downer campus because I have visited Downer on
        > various occasions without checking in at the office. The specific
        > date she cited was 8/18. I came to Downer on that day at the request
        > of Ms. Uribes via the secretary Billie. She had boxed books belonging
        > to Downer (and clearly marked as such) and wanted me to pick them up.
        > When I looked through the books and realized (as I had suspected)
        > they
        > were not mine, I told her this and she argued with me. I responded
        > that if she were offering them to me as a gift, I would take them but
        > that they did not belong to me. So just in case Ms. Uribes asks you
        > to come to Downer, you might want to inquire whether, if you comply,
        > you'll be banned from returning on further occasions.
        >
        > I actually am relatively unconcerned about not being able to be
        > visit. The great majority of my friends are gone now -- either
        > fleeing on their own or being removed against their will. However,
        > it seems to set a bad precendent if people -- parents, for example --
        > can be barred from a school WITH NO WARNING simply because they
        > neglect to check-in at the office.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Charley Cowens
        Scottie- I have been considering a question like this as part of the PTA question list. Here s a first stab at it: One of the recent controversies in the
        Message 3 of 26 , Sep 2, 2006
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          Scottie-

          I have been considering a question like this as part of the PTA
          question list. Here's a first stab at it:

          One of the recent controversies in the District involved a group of
          mostly experienced teachers usually known as the "Downer 5" who were
          disciplined (including forcible transfers and reprimands) after they
          expressed their opposition to how certain changes in teaching
          practices were being implemented. These teaching practices involved
          using a much more scripted closely controlled approach overseen by
          District mentors. What do you think the Board should do, if anything,
          to ensure that teachers are not being disciplined for their opinions
          about policies at their schools? Also, how much control should
          teachers have over how they teach in their classrooms and how mush
          oversight should there be?

          Charley Cowens

          On 9/1/06, rcs101@... <rcs101@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > --Elizabeth:
          >
          > This is a good question for the school board candidates. I would most certainly like to know what they have in terms of information and their position on what has happen at Downer to 5 of it "highly qualified" teachers. Particularly, since the Downer teachers have been transferred out to predominately hill schools and replaced with much less qualified staff.
          >
          > Scottie Smith
          >
          >
          >
          > -------------- Original message ----------------------
          > From: "Elizabeth Jaeger" <elizabethjaeger@...>
          > > Yesterday I received via certified mail a letter from Graciela Uribes
          > > stating that as per Section 626.4 of the California Penal Code she
          > > was
          > > banning me from the Downer campus because I have visited Downer on
          > > various occasions without checking in at the office. The specific
          > > date she cited was 8/18. I came to Downer on that day at the request
          > > of Ms. Uribes via the secretary Billie. She had boxed books belonging
          > > to Downer (and clearly marked as such) and wanted me to pick them up.
          > > When I looked through the books and realized (as I had suspected)
          > > they
          > > were not mine, I told her this and she argued with me. I responded
          > > that if she were offering them to me as a gift, I would take them but
          > > that they did not belong to me. So just in case Ms. Uribes asks you
          > > to come to Downer, you might want to inquire whether, if you comply,
          > > you'll be banned from returning on further occasions.
          > >
          > > I actually am relatively unconcerned about not being able to be
          > > visit. The great majority of my friends are gone now -- either
          > > fleeing on their own or being removed against their will. However,
          > > it seems to set a bad precendent if people -- parents, for example --
          > > can be barred from a school WITH NO WARNING simply because they
          > > neglect to check-in at the office.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • troubled_h2o
          How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at will based on
          Message 4 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
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            How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
            the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
            will based on seniority?
          • Elizabeth Jaeger
            Charlie, I very much appreciate your interest in bringing this to the attention of potential school board members. I think your question is well-written and
            Message 5 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
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              Charlie,

              I very much appreciate your interest in bringing this to the
              attention of potential school board members. I think your question
              is well-written and to the point. Thanks.

              Elizabeth

              --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Charley Cowens"
              <charley.cowens@...> wrote:
              >
              > Scottie-
              >
              > I have been considering a question like this as part of the PTA
              > question list. Here's a first stab at it:
              >
              > One of the recent controversies in the District involved a group of
              > mostly experienced teachers usually known as the "Downer 5" who
              were
              > disciplined (including forcible transfers and reprimands) after
              they
              > expressed their opposition to how certain changes in teaching
              > practices were being implemented. These teaching practices involved
              > using a much more scripted closely controlled approach overseen by
              > District mentors. What do you think the Board should do, if
              anything,
              > to ensure that teachers are not being disciplined for their
              opinions
              > about policies at their schools? Also, how much control should
              > teachers have over how they teach in their classrooms and how mush
              > oversight should there be?
              >
              > Charley Cowens
              >
              > On 9/1/06, rcs101@... <rcs101@...> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > --Elizabeth:
              > >
              > > This is a good question for the school board candidates. I would
              most certainly like to know what they have in terms of information
              and their position on what has happen at Downer to 5 of it "highly
              qualified" teachers. Particularly, since the Downer teachers have
              been transferred out to predominately hill schools and replaced with
              much less qualified staff.
              > >
              > > Scottie Smith
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
              > > From: "Elizabeth Jaeger" <elizabethjaeger@...>
              > > > Yesterday I received via certified mail a letter from Graciela
              Uribes
              > > > stating that as per Section 626.4 of the California Penal Code
              she
              > > > was
              > > > banning me from the Downer campus because I have visited
              Downer on
              > > > various occasions without checking in at the office. The
              specific
              > > > date she cited was 8/18. I came to Downer on that day at the
              request
              > > > of Ms. Uribes via the secretary Billie. She had boxed books
              belonging
              > > > to Downer (and clearly marked as such) and wanted me to pick
              them up.
              > > > When I looked through the books and realized (as I had
              suspected)
              > > > they
              > > > were not mine, I told her this and she argued with me. I
              responded
              > > > that if she were offering them to me as a gift, I would take
              them but
              > > > that they did not belong to me. So just in case Ms. Uribes
              asks you
              > > > to come to Downer, you might want to inquire whether, if you
              comply,
              > > > you'll be banned from returning on further occasions.
              > > >
              > > > I actually am relatively unconcerned about not being able to be
              > > > visit. The great majority of my friends are gone now -- either
              > > > fleeing on their own or being removed against their will.
              However,
              > > > it seems to set a bad precendent if people -- parents, for
              example --
              > > > can be barred from a school WITH NO WARNING simply because
              they
              > > > neglect to check-in at the office.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Charley Cowens
              Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question: How do we make our flatland schools places where experienced professionals will want to
              Message 6 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
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                Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                their services.

                Charley Cowens

                On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                > will based on seniority?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Elizabeth Jaeger
                Or, more importantly, how will you deal with administrators who remove teachers from the flatland schools they are committed to and send them to hills schools
                Message 7 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
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                  Or, more importantly, how will you deal with administrators who remove
                  teachers from the flatland schools they are committed to and send them
                  to hills schools which need them less? All of the Downer 5 were
                  transferred to higher socioeconomic status schools.

                  --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "troubled_h2o" <axharris@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                  > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools
                  at
                  > will based on seniority?
                  >
                • axharris@sbcglobal.net
                  Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large? _____ From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                  Message 8 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
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                    Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?


                    _____

                    From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                    Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                    To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues



                    Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                    How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                    professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                    flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                    their services.

                    Charley Cowens

                    On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                    <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                    > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                    > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                    > will based on seniority?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • rcs101@att.net
                    --I think the all the questions are good ones and Elizabeth s should be asked right out. By the way, Charlie, could you post a list of dates and locations for
                    Message 9 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
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                      --I think the all the questions are good ones and Elizabeth's should be asked right out. By the way, Charlie, could you post a list of dates and locations for candidates' forums?

                      Scottie Smith



                      -------------- Original message ----------------------
                      From: <axharris@...>
                      > Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?
                      >
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                      > Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                      > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                      > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                      > How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                      > professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                      > flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                      > their services.
                      >
                      > Charley Cowens
                      >
                      > On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                      > <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                      > > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                      > > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                      > > will based on seniority?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Charley Cowens
                      Scottie, When people give this information to me, I l post it. Charley
                      Message 10 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
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                        Scottie,

                        When people give this information to me, I'l post it.

                        Charley

                        On 9/3/06, rcs101@... <rcs101@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > --I think the all the questions are good ones and Elizabeth's should be asked right out. By the way, Charlie, could you post a list of dates and locations for candidates' forums?
                        >
                        > Scottie Smith
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -------------- Original message ----------------------
                        > From: <axharris@...>
                        > > Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > _____
                        > >
                        > > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                        > > Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                        > > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                        > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                        > > How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                        > > professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                        > > flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                        > > their services.
                        > >
                        > > Charley Cowens
                        > >
                        > > On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                        > > <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                        > > > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                        > > > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                        > > > will based on seniority?
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Charley Cowens
                        Yes, I ve thought that before, but the costs of dividing may simply outweigh any benefits. Is there some connection you re trying to make to what we re talking
                        Message 11 of 26 , Sep 3, 2006
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                          Yes, I've thought that before, but the costs of dividing may simply
                          outweigh any benefits. Is there some connection you're trying to make
                          to what we're talking about in this thread?

                          Also, who are you? You said you were an ex-school board member. Your
                          email user name is "axharris". There are two such people I know of
                          with Harris in their names. Are you Adrienne Harris-Pitts?

                          Charley Cowens

                          On 9/3/06, axharris@... <axharris@...> wrote:
                          > Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?
                          >
                          >
                          > _____
                          >
                          > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                          > Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                          > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                          > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                          > How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                          > professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                          > flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                          > their services.
                          >
                          > Charley Cowens
                          >
                          > On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                          > <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                          > > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                          > > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                          > > will based on seniority?
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • troubled_h2o
                          This sounds like a problem that should be grievanced through UTR. That s what they get paid for.
                          Message 12 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                            This sounds like a problem that should be grievanced through UTR.
                            That's what they get paid for.
                          • Elizabeth Jaeger
                            Would that UTR leadership had any interest in instruction whatsoever. They were of absolutely no help during the whole Downer 5 ordeal and, in some ways, a
                            Message 13 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Would that UTR leadership had any interest in instruction whatsoever.
                              They were of absolutely no help during the whole Downer 5 ordeal and,
                              in some ways, a hindrance since they managed to convince other
                              teachers that we were being "looked after." The only grievances they
                              seem equipped to handle are those related to technicalities (e.g., did
                              a principal follow the contractual guidelines in conducting a teacher
                              evaluation, NOT was a teacher harrassed during the course of the
                              evaluation process).

                              --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "troubled_h2o" <axharris@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > This sounds like a problem that should be grievanced through UTR.
                              > That's what they get paid for.
                              >
                            • axharris@sbcglobal.net
                              As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,) $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you have
                              Message 14 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                                As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,)
                                $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you
                                have properly documented the harassment, and UTR won't help you, you should
                                contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up the wrong tree with the
                                school board.



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Eduardo Martinez
                                The board should exert their influence so the district doesn t waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
                                Message 15 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  The board should exert their influence so the district
                                  doesn't waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases
                                  that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
                                  of the school district when the administation refuses
                                  to act ethically? Who should guard the purse strings
                                  when behavior is senselessly scattering dollars at
                                  district lawyers when the money could be supporting
                                  the instruction on the children? Trying all venues
                                  before going to court is the best course of action,
                                  but it seems the district is intent on wasting yet
                                  thousands more dollars covering their indiscretions.
                                  So sad...
                                  Yet I feel we must bark up every tree in hopes that
                                  others don't continue running down the wrong path.
                                  IMHO everyone should be barking as loud as possible.

                                  Eduardo

                                  --- axharris@... wrote:

                                  > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you
                                  > expect the (approx,)
                                  > $500 a month elected representatives of the public
                                  > to do about it? If you
                                  > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR
                                  > won't help you, you should
                                  > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up
                                  > the wrong tree with the
                                  > school board.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                  > removed]
                                  >
                                  >


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                                • axharris@sbcglobal.net
                                  Americans have a right to due process. Moreover, the individual school board members do not exert as much personal influence over personnel matters as you seem
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                                    Americans have a right to due process. Moreover, the individual school board
                                    members do not exert as much personal influence over personnel matters as
                                    you seem to think. Lastly, the school board is essentially powerless to
                                    mediate personality conflicts. They can't even get along with each other,
                                    and anyway, none of them cares much about the schools in Richmond, where I
                                    happen to reside.

                                    Harrassment is a serious issue. If it can be proven, it should be pressed.

                                    Cordially,
                                    Adrienne




                                    _____

                                    From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                                    Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez
                                    Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:53 PM
                                    To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues



                                    The board should exert their influence so the district
                                    doesn't waste valuable $$$$$$$ fighting court cases
                                    that need not go to court. Who is the moral compass
                                    of the school district when the administation refuses
                                    to act ethically? Who should guard the purse strings
                                    when behavior is senselessly scattering dollars at
                                    district lawyers when the money could be supporting
                                    the instruction on the children? Trying all venues
                                    before going to court is the best course of action,
                                    but it seems the district is intent on wasting yet
                                    thousands more dollars covering their indiscretions.
                                    So sad...
                                    Yet I feel we must bark up every tree in hopes that
                                    others don't continue running down the wrong path.
                                    IMHO everyone should be barking as loud as possible.

                                    Eduardo

                                    --- axharris@sbcglobal. <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net wrote:

                                    > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you
                                    > expect the (approx,)
                                    > $500 a month elected representatives of the public
                                    > to do about it? If you
                                    > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR
                                    > won't help you, you should
                                    > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up
                                    > the wrong tree with the
                                    > school board.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                    > removed]
                                    >
                                    >

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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Charley Cowens
                                    Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam requirement) and the purely
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                                      Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                                      authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam
                                      requirement) and the purely budgetary veto power of Dr. Fred. The
                                      grievance procedure should deal with the bulk of personal type cases
                                      (like getting shorted in your paycheck), but there are three possible
                                      situations where the grievance procedure approach breaks down: (1)
                                      where administrative retaliation is applied to suppress opinions about
                                      school policy, (2) where there is a wide pattern to a particular kind
                                      of grievance, and (3) where the sheer volume of grievances is
                                      excessive. An example of (1) is writing up a teacher for what they
                                      said as a member of a site council. As for (3), I'd be curious to know
                                      if anyone has any statistics about the grievance rate in this district
                                      over time and compared to other districts.

                                      Charley Cowens

                                      On 9/4/06, axharris@... <axharris@...> wrote:
                                      > As unfortunate as your experience was, what do you expect the (approx,)
                                      > $500 a month elected representatives of the public to do about it? If you
                                      > have properly documented the harassment, and UTR won't help you, you should
                                      > contact a lawyer. IMHO you are totally barking up the wrong tree with the
                                      > school board.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • axharris@sbcglobal.net
                                      What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant to the union contracts. Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR conflict with the educational
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                                        What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant to the union contracts.
                                        Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR conflict with the
                                        educational function of its cadre of state-certified professional teachers?
                                        If so, this is an issue the public needs to embrace


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Eduardo Martinez
                                        Would you please include the quote to which you refer? I have no idea what you consider fanciful, but the district acts pursuant to their wims. That is why
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                                          Would you please include the quote to which you refer?
                                          I have no idea what you consider fanciful, but the
                                          district acts pursuant to their wims. That is why
                                          there are so many grievances. It is the industrial
                                          employment model imposed by the district that is the
                                          problem and their attempts to force scripted
                                          curriculum greatly adversely impacts the educational
                                          function of state-certified professional teachers.
                                          And yes, I do believe this is an issue the public
                                          needs to embrace.

                                          Eduardo

                                          --- axharris@... wrote:

                                          > What you say is fanciful. The distict acts pursuant
                                          > to the union contracts.
                                          > Does the industrial employment model imposed by UTR
                                          > conflict with the
                                          > educational function of its cadre of state-certified
                                          > professional teachers?
                                          > If so, this is an issue the public needs to embrace
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                          > removed]
                                          >
                                          >


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                                        • troubled_h2o
                                          Eduardo: Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District. That is the quote which I described as fanciful.
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
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                                            Eduardo:
                                            "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                                            authority over the District."
                                            That is the quote which I described as "fanciful."
                                          • Charley Cowens
                                            Adrienne, The full sentence was Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
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                                              Adrienne,

                                              The full sentence was "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the
                                              ultimate controlling
                                              authority over the District subject to the State (like the exit exam
                                              requirement) and the purely budgetary veto power of Dr. Fred." I
                                              should have thrown in contracts it has entered into, but that seemed
                                              sort of obvious.

                                              The collective bargaining agreement for teachers is between the School
                                              Board and the UTR, not among the School Board, the staff, and the
                                              UTR. I don't see how directing staff to abstain from the sort of
                                              actions involved in the Downer 5 incidents or to remedy them could be
                                              a violation of the collective bargaining agreement between teachers
                                              and the School Board.

                                              Charley Cowens

                                              On 9/4/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                                              > Eduardo:
                                              > "Whatever the Board is paid, they are the ultimate controlling
                                              > authority over the District."
                                              > That is the quote which I described as "fanciful."
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • troubled_h2o
                                              Charley- The school board doesn t direct the staff. The school board directs the superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that s why his job
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
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                                                Charley-
                                                The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board directs the
                                                superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's why
                                                his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is displeased
                                                with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him at any
                                                time with 3 votes.

                                                Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                                                Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                                                curriculum always interests me.

                                                Adrienne
                                              • Charley Cowens
                                                Adrienne- Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board: 35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any powers delegated
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
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                                                  Adrienne-

                                                  Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board:

                                                  35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any
                                                  powers delegated by law to it or to the district of which it is the
                                                  governing board, and shall discharge any duty imposed by law upon it
                                                  or upon the district of which it is the governing board, and may
                                                  delegate to an officer or employee of the district any of those
                                                  powers or duties. The governing board, however, retains ultimate
                                                  responsibility over the performance of those powers or duties so
                                                  delegated.

                                                  This seem rather broad to me. My main point about what I dimly
                                                  remember to be the beginning of this thread was that the Board _can_
                                                  intervene as much as it wants in matters like the Downer 5. Whether it
                                                  _should_ is the real question.

                                                  The starting bone of contention at Downer was mostly about the reading
                                                  (oh, I mean literacy) program.

                                                  Charley Cowens


                                                  On 9/5/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                                                  > Charley-
                                                  > The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board directs the
                                                  > superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's why
                                                  > his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is displeased
                                                  > with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him at any
                                                  > time with 3 votes.
                                                  >
                                                  > Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                                                  > Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                                                  > curriculum always interests me.
                                                  >
                                                  > Adrienne
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                • Elizabeth Jaeger
                                                  Yes, the reading program but also the toxic environment created by a series of administrators. ... it ... _can_ ... Whether it ... reading ... directs the ...
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
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                                                    Yes, the reading program but also the toxic environment created by a
                                                    series of administrators.

                                                    --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Charley Cowens"
                                                    <charley.cowens@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Adrienne-
                                                    >
                                                    > Here is the State Ed. Code about the powers of the School Board:
                                                    >
                                                    > 35161. The governing board of any school district may execute any
                                                    > powers delegated by law to it or to the district of which it is the
                                                    > governing board, and shall discharge any duty imposed by law upon
                                                    it
                                                    > or upon the district of which it is the governing board, and may
                                                    > delegate to an officer or employee of the district any of those
                                                    > powers or duties. The governing board, however, retains ultimate
                                                    > responsibility over the performance of those powers or duties so
                                                    > delegated.
                                                    >
                                                    > This seem rather broad to me. My main point about what I dimly
                                                    > remember to be the beginning of this thread was that the Board
                                                    _can_
                                                    > intervene as much as it wants in matters like the Downer 5.
                                                    Whether it
                                                    > _should_ is the real question.
                                                    >
                                                    > The starting bone of contention at Downer was mostly about the
                                                    reading
                                                    > (oh, I mean literacy) program.
                                                    >
                                                    > Charley Cowens
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > On 9/5/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@...> wrote:
                                                    > > Charley-
                                                    > > The school board doesn't direct the staff. The school board
                                                    directs the
                                                    > > superintendent. The superintendent supervises the staff- that's
                                                    why
                                                    > > his job title is "superintendent." If the school board is
                                                    displeased
                                                    > > with how the superintendent implements policy, they can fire him
                                                    at any
                                                    > > time with 3 votes.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Unfortunately, as a newbie, I don't really know what happened at
                                                    > > Downer. Was it an issue with math curriculum? Improving math
                                                    > > curriculum always interests me.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Adrienne
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                  • troubled_h2o
                                                    Good stuff, Charley. The gospel of the Ed Code.
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
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                                                      Good stuff, Charley. The gospel of the Ed Code.
                                                    • Charley Cowens
                                                      Scottie- Here s the dates/times for 3 candidate forums sponsored by LWV/PTA/WCCUSD, moderated by the League of Women Voters, West Contra Costa Chapter.
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Sep 7, 2006
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                                                        Scottie-

                                                        Here's the dates/times for 3 candidate forums sponsored by
                                                        LWV/PTA/WCCUSD, moderated by the League of Women Voters, West Contra
                                                        Costa Chapter.

                                                        Wednesday Oct. 11 @ Kennedy HS, 7-9 p.m.
                                                        Wednesday Oct. 25 @ Hercules HS, 7-9 p.m.
                                                        Saturday, Oct. 28 @ De Anza HS, 10 a.m. - 12 noon

                                                        If anyone hears of any other dates please share.

                                                        Charley Cowens

                                                        On 9/3/06, rcs101@... <rcs101@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > --I think the all the questions are good ones and Elizabeth's should be asked right out. By the way, Charlie, could you post a list of dates and locations for candidates' forums?
                                                        >
                                                        > Scottie Smith
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > -------------- Original message ----------------------
                                                        > From: <axharris@...>
                                                        > > Oh, and did I hear you saying the district is too large?
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > _____
                                                        > >
                                                        > > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                        > > Behalf Of Charley Cowens
                                                        > > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:40 PM
                                                        > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Downer 5 muck continues
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Well how about this counter non-question to match your non-question:
                                                        > > How do we make our "flatland" schools places where experienced
                                                        > > professionals will want to stay and work instead of being forced to
                                                        > > flee to schools (and school districts) that are not as needing of
                                                        > > their services.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Charley Cowens
                                                        > >
                                                        > > On 9/3/06, troubled_h2o <axharris@sbcglobal.
                                                        > > <mailto:axharris%40sbcglobal.net> net> wrote:
                                                        > > > How about this question: What will you do to get rid of clauses in
                                                        > > > the UTR contract that allow teachers to abandon our flatland schools at
                                                        > > > will based on seniority?
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
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