Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement

Expand Messages
  • Diamel@aol.com
    Kevin UTR does not have talking points in regards to candidate endorsements. You are correct it is simply at the whim of whom ever happens to be on the UTR
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Kevin UTR does not have talking points in regards to candidate endorsements. You are correct it is simply at the whim of whom ever happens to be on the UTR Exec. Board.

      Rep. Council did not vote down the endorsement because a candidate disgusts someone or if the candidate was brought to a meeting by someone not liked. Yes the firm she works for was a huge issue. By the way is your printing business unionized.

      UTR does not have requirements for candidates but many times in the past candidates have used UTRS endorsement to get elected and turned around after being elected and really burned the teachers. Teachers will never forget how the elected members from the last board election went against nearly every promise they made to us i.e. schools were closed and the k-8 issue surfaced.

      Kevin for you to throw out unsubstantiated comments as you have just done you have lowered any credibility I have had for you. I was there for many years when you fought your battles against the District to arrive where you are today.

      MEL COLLINS


      -----Original Message-----
      From: kfrivard@...
      To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: Diamel@...
      Sent: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 7:08 AM
      Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement


      Diane,

      Please post the requirements that a candidate needs to be endorsed by your organization. It will be interesting to see if you have a "talking points" list of requirements or is it simply the whim of whom ever happens to be on the board of your organization at the time of endorsement.

      Since your primary objection to Ms Meade is that she works for someone who disgusts you, is there a requirement that the candidate like kids, has volunteered in the schools, volunteered in the community, lived in the community for a period of time, is asked about education and knows the issues at hand in our district, has some sound and thought out solutions to our problems in the district and so on and could that override your primary objection.

      Your endorsements means absolutely nothing to me when I read the only reasons of prominence that you bring forward is she was brought to the meeting by a person you do not like and works at a firm you do not like.

      If you want credibility in your endorsements tell me how the people you support fulfill your organizations requirements and how your candidates have supported the community and the schools along with their ideas as to how they will bring positive change to the district.

      Until you lay out a credible reasoning why you support or do not support a candidate and simply throw some unsubstantiated rumors against the wall and hope they stick will simply lower any credibility your organizations endorsement carries.

      Kevin

      >From: Diamel@...
      >Reply-To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
      >To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
      >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:31:50 EDT
      >
      >Marguertie E. Meade website:
      >
      >_http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm_ >(http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm)
      >
      >Diane Brown
      >
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >

      ________________________________________________________________________
      Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Charley Cowens
      Mel- I zeroed in on this sentence in your post: Teachers will never forget how the elected members from the last board election went against nearly every
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Mel-

        I zeroed in on this sentence in your post: "Teachers will never forget
        how the elected members from the last board election went against
        nearly every promise they made to us i.e. schools were closed and the
        k-8 issue surfaced." Are you saying both Karen Pfeifer and Dave Brown
        explicitly promised the UTR to keep K-8 off the table?

        Charley Cowens

        On 9/1/06, Diamel@... <Diamel@...> wrote:
        > Kevin UTR does not have talking points in regards to candidate endorsements. You are correct it is simply at the whim of whom ever happens to be on the UTR Exec. Board.
        >
        > Rep. Council did not vote down the endorsement because a candidate disgusts someone or if the candidate was brought to a meeting by someone not liked. Yes the firm she works for was a huge issue. By the way is your printing business unionized.
        >
        > UTR does not have requirements for candidates but many times in the past candidates have used UTRS endorsement to get elected and turned around after being elected and really burned the teachers. Teachers will never forget how the elected members from the last board election went against nearly every promise they made to us i.e. schools were closed and the k-8 issue surfaced.
        >
        > Kevin for you to throw out unsubstantiated comments as you have just done you have lowered any credibility I have had for you. I was there for many years when you fought your battles against the District to arrive where you are today.
        >
        > MEL COLLINS
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: kfrivard@...
        > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
        > Cc: Diamel@...
        > Sent: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 7:08 AM
        > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
        >
        >
        > Diane,
        >
        > Please post the requirements that a candidate needs to be endorsed by your organization. It will be interesting to see if you have a "talking points" list of requirements or is it simply the whim of whom ever happens to be on the board of your organization at the time of endorsement.
        >
        > Since your primary objection to Ms Meade is that she works for someone who disgusts you, is there a requirement that the candidate like kids, has volunteered in the schools, volunteered in the community, lived in the community for a period of time, is asked about education and knows the issues at hand in our district, has some sound and thought out solutions to our problems in the district and so on and could that override your primary objection.
        >
        > Your endorsements means absolutely nothing to me when I read the only reasons of prominence that you bring forward is she was brought to the meeting by a person you do not like and works at a firm you do not like.
        >
        > If you want credibility in your endorsements tell me how the people you support fulfill your organizations requirements and how your candidates have supported the community and the schools along with their ideas as to how they will bring positive change to the district.
        >
        > Until you lay out a credible reasoning why you support or do not support a candidate and simply throw some unsubstantiated rumors against the wall and hope they stick will simply lower any credibility your organizations endorsement carries.
        >
        > Kevin
        >
        > >From: Diamel@...
        > >Reply-To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
        > >To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
        > >Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
        > >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:31:50 EDT
        > >
        > >Marguertie E. Meade website:
        > >
        > >_http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm_ >(http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm)
        > >
        > >Diane Brown
        > >
        > >
        > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Diamel@aol.com
        Charlie lets not play on words here. there is nothing implicit in politics. What I said was those were promises made. They campaigned on no school closures.
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Charlie lets not play on words here. there is nothing implicit in politics. What I said was those were promises made. They campaigned on no school closures. Schools were closed. In regards to k-8 to go k-8 one or more middle schools would have to be closed.

          Mel Collins


          -----Original Message-----
          From: charley.cowens@...
          To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 1:39 PM
          Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement


          Mel-

          I zeroed in on this sentence in your post: "Teachers will never forget
          how the elected members from the last board election went against
          nearly every promise they made to us i.e. schools were closed and the
          k-8 issue surfaced." Are you saying both Karen Pfeifer and Dave Brown
          explicitly promised the UTR to keep K-8 off the table?

          Charley Cowens

          On 9/1/06, Diamel@... <Diamel@...> wrote:
          > Kevin UTR does not have talking points in regards to candidate endorsements.
          You are correct it is simply at the whim of whom ever happens to be on the UTR
          Exec. Board.
          >
          > Rep. Council did not vote down the endorsement because a candidate disgusts
          someone or if the candidate was brought to a meeting by someone not liked. Yes
          the firm she works for was a huge issue. By the way is your printing business
          unionized.
          >
          > UTR does not have requirements for candidates but many times in the past
          candidates have used UTRS endorsement to get elected and turned around after
          being elected and really burned the teachers. Teachers will never forget how the
          elected members from the last board election went against nearly every promise
          they made to us i.e. schools were closed and the k-8 issue surfaced.
          >
          > Kevin for you to throw out unsubstantiated comments as you have just done you
          have lowered any credibility I have had for you. I was there for many years when
          you fought your battles against the District to arrive where you are today.
          >
          > MEL COLLINS
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: kfrivard@...
          > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
          > Cc: Diamel@...
          > Sent: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 7:08 AM
          > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
          >
          >
          > Diane,
          >
          > Please post the requirements that a candidate needs to be endorsed by your
          organization. It will be interesting to see if you have a "talking points" list
          of requirements or is it simply the whim of whom ever happens to be on the board
          of your organization at the time of endorsement.
          >
          > Since your primary objection to Ms Meade is that she works for someone who
          disgusts you, is there a requirement that the candidate like kids, has
          volunteered in the schools, volunteered in the community, lived in the community
          for a period of time, is asked about education and knows the issues at hand in
          our district, has some sound and thought out solutions to our problems in the
          district and so on and could that override your primary objection.
          >
          > Your endorsements means absolutely nothing to me when I read the only reasons
          of prominence that you bring forward is she was brought to the meeting by a
          person you do not like and works at a firm you do not like.
          >
          > If you want credibility in your endorsements tell me how the people you
          support fulfill your organizations requirements and how your candidates have
          supported the community and the schools along with their ideas as to how they
          will bring positive change to the district.
          >
          > Until you lay out a credible reasoning why you support or do not support a
          candidate and simply throw some unsubstantiated rumors against the wall and hope
          they stick will simply lower any credibility your organizations endorsement
          carries.
          >
          > Kevin
          >
          > >From: Diamel@...
          > >Reply-To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
          > >To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
          > >Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
          > >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:31:50 EDT
          > >
          > >Marguertie E. Meade website:
          > >
          > >_http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm_ >(http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm)
          > >
          > >Diane Brown
          > >
          > >
          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          > ________________________________________________________________________
          > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM.
          All on demand. Always Free.
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >



          Yahoo! Groups Links




          ________________________________________________________________________
          Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Diamel@aol.com
          Charlie, members of rep council did there own investigation and brought the information to rep council to share with members. I down loaded the voter
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Charlie, members of rep council did there own investigation and brought the
            information to rep council to share with members. I down loaded the voter
            information pamphlet and only found out that she was a lawyer. She never
            mentioned her experience or mentioned what type of cases she was involved in as did
            candidate Robert Brower. I felt the need to look deeper for knowing Gail
            Mendes I knew she would not share all the facts with the council.

            I served on the UTR Exec. Board for 14 years and I do know the nature of
            Gail Mendes. The debate was lively only because Pres. Gail Mendes did not want a
            discussion but a rubber stamp from the council. She and Pixie
            Hayward-Schickele our CTA board member would not allow nominations from the floor which made
            members more up set for it seemed like a set up to me and others.

            Charlie I do not know where you are getting your information from but no one
            from the out side wrangled rep. council members. Yes members are miffed at
            Gail Mendes because she BULLIES them and is HEAVY HANDED. The research brought
            in by my self and others was the straw that broke the camels back.

            You did not slip you only put out unsubstantiated information. Using your
            own words it seems to me that you are the muckraker. I feel that an apology
            needs to be made to the individual you implicated.

            I want to be very clear that the yet-unnamed person was me and I am not
            behind the scene but a 28 year dues paying member of UTR/CTA/NEA and 14 year
            member of UTRS Exec.Board.

            MEL COLLINS


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • jim cowen
            When the UTR exec board proposed Medrano, Miles and Meade, that was a blow to the incumbent candidate. Based on all the information presented, it certainly
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              When the UTR exec board proposed Medrano, Miles and
              Meade, that was a blow to the incumbent candidate.

              Based on all the information presented, it certainly
              appears that someone on the rep council, for some
              reason, "researched" Ms. Meade to a much greater
              extent than it usually would research any candidate.
              If the endorsements weren't even on the agenda, then
              WHY had someone "researched" Ms. Meade?? The logical
              assumption was that someone on the rep council was
              tipped off with regard to what to look for, or was
              simply given the information.

              When the UTR rep council dropped Ms Meade as an
              endorsement, that was a good thing for the incumbent
              candidate.

              It certainly APPEARS that the rep council was played.
              They may not want to admit it, and they may
              nonetheless be quite happy with their final vote, but
              the appearance that they were played is nonetheless
              out there.

              It is likely best to just leave it alone at this
              point. But, if the rep council members want to defend
              their stance, they should clearly state who
              "researched" Ms Meade, and why they researched Ms
              Meade when they clearly did not "research" the other
              candidates.

              Quick - members of the rep council:
              -can you state what type of law Mr Brower practices?
              -can you state what type of law Mr. Ramsey
              practices?
              -have you done any research on any of the other
              candidates?

              I suspect there will be no answer forthcoming, and the
              impression that the rep council was fed information
              will stand.

              Jim Cowen
              P.S. please dont confuse Jim Cowen and Charlie
              Cowens. We both get into enough trouble on our own!!


              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com
            • sunsetjill
              Mel Collins Wrote : Charlie lets not play on words here. there is nothing implicit in politics. What I said was those were promises made. They campaigned on no
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Mel Collins Wrote :
                Charlie lets not play on words here. there is nothing implicit in
                politics. What I said was those were promises made. They campaigned on
                no school closures. Schools were closed. In regards to k-8 to go k-8
                one or more middle schools would have to be closed.

                Mel Collins

                Jill Writes:
                As a member of the public whom attended school board meetings to keep
                schools open, I would like to remind you that Dave Brown voted "NO" to
                closing any schools. Unfortunately his vote did not help and Seaview
                was closed.
                Also as someone that participated on the K8. Oh what a set up this
                was and a waste of time for me. But let's set the record straight!
                Karen Pheifer did not want any part of K8. She only attended a few
                meetings in the beginning. When her proposal for a GATE K8 did not go
                over very well, she did not seem to attend any further meetings.
                Remember Karen Pheifer voted to Close Schools!
                Also Dave Brown made a comment at a K8 that he would consider
                resigning if we proposed closing any Middle Schools. He said that he
                did make promises and did not want to go thru that again.
                Hope this helps....
                I did not vote for either Karen or Dave, but I will say I am much
                happier with Dave the Karen...
                Which brings up my last comment and I was not going to get involved in
                this political debate, but maybe you all should look at where the
                Candadates live. We have had a Strong Support for EL Cerrito...The
                people that VOTE! I would personaly like to see a more diverse group
                on the school board! I am tired of having 3 people from the El
                Cerrito Community on the Board! This has been going on for too many
                years.

                Jill Wolkenfeld
              • rcs101@att.net
                --Jim: I am not going to mix you up with Charlie again, but only a note to say, I agree with you and would hope that the public would not allow UTR or any big
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  --Jim:

                  I am not going to mix you up with Charlie again, but only a note to say, I agree with you and would hope that the public would not allow UTR or any big donor or organization to dictate how they should vote. At this time, I can not say which candidate I will vote for, but I will take a strong look at who is supporting each candidate; and if they are connected to any powerful lobbying person, group or organization, I would be very careful about supporting them. Because one has to ask what vested interest does the group or organization have in supporting a particular candidate. I am much more interested in the latter than what part of the district they come from, just because a person comes from Richmond, San Pablo, Pinole, etc., it does not mean that person is looking out for the best interest of that area or listening to the parents, students and teachers of said area.



                  Scottie Smith



                  -------------- Original message ----------------------
                  From: jim cowen <jimcowen@...>
                  > When the UTR exec board proposed Medrano, Miles and
                  > Meade, that was a blow to the incumbent candidate.
                  >
                  > Based on all the information presented, it certainly
                  > appears that someone on the rep council, for some
                  > reason, "researched" Ms. Meade to a much greater
                  > extent than it usually would research any candidate.
                  > If the endorsements weren't even on the agenda, then
                  > WHY had someone "researched" Ms. Meade?? The logical
                  > assumption was that someone on the rep council was
                  > tipped off with regard to what to look for, or was
                  > simply given the information.
                  >
                  > When the UTR rep council dropped Ms Meade as an
                  > endorsement, that was a good thing for the incumbent
                  > candidate.
                  >
                  > It certainly APPEARS that the rep council was played.
                  > They may not want to admit it, and they may
                  > nonetheless be quite happy with their final vote, but
                  > the appearance that they were played is nonetheless
                  > out there.
                  >
                  > It is likely best to just leave it alone at this
                  > point. But, if the rep council members want to defend
                  > their stance, they should clearly state who
                  > "researched" Ms Meade, and why they researched Ms
                  > Meade when they clearly did not "research" the other
                  > candidates.
                  >
                  > Quick - members of the rep council:
                  > -can you state what type of law Mr Brower practices?
                  > -can you state what type of law Mr. Ramsey
                  > practices?
                  > -have you done any research on any of the other
                  > candidates?
                  >
                  > I suspect there will be no answer forthcoming, and the
                  > impression that the rep council was fed information
                  > will stand.
                  >
                  > Jim Cowen
                  > P.S. please dont confuse Jim Cowen and Charlie
                  > Cowens. We both get into enough trouble on our own!!
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • rcs101@att.net
                  --Eduardo: Thanks for leaving the door open and advocating for informed voting . But my brother, be very careful about putting out your support signs for
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --Eduardo:

                    Thanks for leaving the door open and advocating for "informed voting". But my brother, be very careful about putting out your support signs for anyone at this stage of the game, particularly when the important issues that Elizabeth has put on the table have not been fully addressed by the candidates.

                    Scottie Smith



                    -------------- Original message ----------------------
                    From: Eduardo Martinez <ezedmartin@...>
                    > The rep council did not know that endorsements were on
                    > the agenda. We were not given a chance to discuss the
                    > candidates as the motion was put forth by the
                    > president during the last 10 minutes of the meeting.
                    > The rep council had to force a discussion. This might
                    > not have happened if one of the executive board
                    > members hadn't done some research. The question
                    > should not be, ">I wonder what power he holds over the
                    > rep council??<", but rather, "What does the executive
                    > board see in the candidates they wanted the rep
                    > council to endorse?" That question was never answered
                    > although it was asked by members at the rep council
                    > meeting.
                    >
                    > The leadership seems to think leading is telling
                    > others what to do. In a democratic society we need to
                    > be informed voters. The executive board did not
                    > inform the rep council about any candidates, only
                    > giving us the "trust me, you elected me" rational. The
                    > era of herding the sheep to the vote is over. The rep
                    > council is beginning to become a collective of
                    > representatives, not the rubber stamp it has been in
                    > past years. The fact that we, the members of the rep
                    > council, called for extra time to have discussion on
                    > the endorsements over the objections of the president
                    > is a good sign.
                    >
                    > A question I pose to you is: why do you think UTR
                    > needs to endorse three candidates? By endorsing
                    > anyone, the power of the endorsement is watered down.
                    > For the record: I did vote to endorse Tony Medrano
                    > because I have seen and heard him at school board
                    > meetings. I know that he cares and is informed. The
                    > other two people the executive board wanted the rep
                    > council to endorse are as yet strangers to me. I will
                    > not personally endorse them until I learn who they are
                    > and for what they stand. Would you endorse someone
                    > just because you were told to do so?
                    >
                    > Eduardo
                    >
                    >
                    > --- jim cowen <jimcowen@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Diane wrote
                    > > > > Before the rep
                    > > > council meeting we researched
                    > > > > the firm and Ms. Mead. After a lively debate at
                    > > > the rep council meeting the
                    > > > > recommended endorsement was voted down
                    > >
                    > > I'm curious Diane. Did the rep council "research"
                    > > any
                    > > other candidates? Or, did they only research Ms
                    > > Meade
                    > > at the request of some as-yet-unnamed behind the
                    > > scenes muckraker?
                    > >
                    > > Why was there "lively debate". Does that mean that,
                    > > even with the prior "research", there were still rep
                    > > council members in favor of her?
                    > >
                    > > Some other thoughts...
                    > > --Ms Meade seems to have been hand-picked by UTR
                    > > exec
                    > > board. Obviously, they did not find 3 candidates
                    > > worthy of endorsement after the first filing
                    > > deadline.
                    > > Then, in the following 5 days, they perhaps
                    > > encouraged Ms Meade and Ms Miles to run, so that,
                    > > along with Mr Medrano, they would be able to endorse
                    > > 3
                    > > candidates.
                    > >
                    > > --Somebody wrangled the rep council members to vote
                    > > against Ms Meade. Probably because he was mad that
                    > > he
                    > > was not getting the endorsement himself, which as an
                    > > incumbent he felt he deserved. I bet he is pretty
                    > > miffed at Gail Mendes for having brought forth more
                    > > competition for him.
                    > >
                    > > --Oops, did I slip and give a hint as to who I think
                    > > did the back room wrangling? I wonder what power he
                    > > holds over the rep council??
                    > >
                    > > Jim Cowen
                    > >
                    > > __________________________________________________
                    > > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                    > > protection around
                    > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________
                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    > http://mail.yahoo.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Eduardo Martinez
                    Jim, I was expecting some sort of response to my last post and was surprised that you ignored it, but still responded to the issue to which I had written. I
                    Message 9 of 20 , Sep 2, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Jim,

                      I was expecting some sort of response to my last post
                      and was surprised that you ignored it, but still
                      responded to the issue to which I had written.

                      I will respond to points and questions that you have
                      brought forth.

                      --- jim cowen <jimcowen@...> wrote:

                      > When the UTR exec board proposed Medrano, Miles and
                      > Meade, that was a blow to the incumbent candidate.
                      >
                      > Based on all the information presented, it certainly
                      > appears that someone on the rep council, for some
                      > reason, "researched" Ms. Meade to a much greater
                      > extent than it usually would research any candidate.
                      > If the endorsements weren't even on the agenda, then
                      > WHY had someone "researched" Ms. Meade?? The
                      > logical
                      > assumption was that someone on the rep council was
                      > tipped off with regard to what to look for, or was
                      > simply given the information.

                      Mel Collins is not only a rep council member, but one
                      of the few UTR executive board members who attempts to
                      make the dealings of the executive board transparent.
                      He is an independent thinker who is often at odds with
                      the hand picked and groomed members of the executive
                      board. The rep council was fortunate to Mel be aware
                      of the executive board's attempt to force an
                      endorsement which might not be good for the union.
                      >
                      >
                      > When the UTR rep council dropped Ms Meade as an
                      > endorsement, that was a good thing for the incumbent
                      > candidate.

                      You seem to have an issue with "the incumbent
                      candidate". The question for the rep council wasn't:
                      "Is this good or bad for the incumbent?" but rather,
                      "Is this good or bad for the union?"

                      >
                      > It certainly APPEARS that the rep council was
                      > played.
                      > They may not want to admit it, and they may
                      > nonetheless be quite happy with their final vote,
                      > but
                      > the appearance that they were played is nonetheless
                      > out there.

                      I don't understand how you can insinuate that the rep
                      council was played for having some information given
                      to them. Are you implying that they wouldn't have
                      been played if no information was given? The UTR
                      leadership is at fault for asking the rep council to
                      vote without giving them any information to make an
                      informed decision. I would say that the rep council
                      has been played by the UTR executive board for a long
                      time, not for being given information, but rather for
                      NOT being given information and ordered to make a
                      decision. As I stated in my previous reply to you.
                      Medrano is the only candidate that I personally
                      endorse.
                      >
                      > It is likely best to just leave it alone at this
                      > point. But, if the rep council members want to
                      > defend
                      > their stance, they should clearly state who
                      > "researched" Ms Meade, and why they researched Ms
                      > Meade when they clearly did not "research" the other
                      > candidates.

                      I will not defend the rep council's endorsement of the
                      other candidates since they voted without doing
                      research, although I am glad that Medrano was
                      endorsed. I will defend the rep council's decision to
                      not endorse Ms. Meade, if not for the fact that her
                      history implies that her tenure on the school board
                      would be bad for the union, then for the fact that the
                      UTR leadership did not give the rep council enough
                      information to make an informed decision.
                      >
                      > Quick - members of the rep council:
                      > -can you state what type of law Mr Brower
                      > practices?
                      > -can you state what type of law Mr. Ramsey
                      > practices?
                      > -have you done any research on any of the other
                      > candidates?

                      I would hope that the other lawyers you mention would
                      have been researched if they had been recommended for
                      endorsement and of course if the rep council had been
                      made aware of the vote to endorse.

                      >
                      > I suspect there will be no answer forthcoming, and
                      > the
                      > impression that the rep council was fed information
                      > will stand.

                      From your comment, I take it you think rep council
                      members cannot think for themselves and need others to
                      tell them what to look into. As I've stated before,
                      that might have been true in the past, but we are
                      developing a proactive rep council that will lead the
                      union democratically and not be lead by a "leadership"
                      that thinks we only need to rubber stamp their
                      decisions.
                      >
                      > Jim Cowen
                      > P.S. please dont confuse Jim Cowen and Charlie
                      > Cowens. We both get into enough trouble on our
                      > own!!
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
                      > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                      > protection around
                      > http://mail.yahoo.com
                      >


                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      http://mail.yahoo.com
                    • Charley Cowens
                      Mel- You seem to be confusing me with Kevin Rivard and (mostly) Jim Cowen in this particular response below. You might have been thrown by the similarity of
                      Message 10 of 20 , Sep 2, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Mel-

                        You seem to be confusing me with Kevin Rivard and (mostly) Jim Cowen
                        in this particular response below. You might have been thrown by the
                        similarity of Jim's last name and mine. It's happened before.

                        Charley Cowens

                        On 9/1/06, Diamel@... <Diamel@...> wrote:
                        > Charlie, members of rep council did there own investigation and brought the
                        > information to rep council to share with members. I down loaded the voter
                        > information pamphlet and only found out that she was a lawyer. She never
                        > mentioned her experience or mentioned what type of cases she was involved in as did
                        > candidate Robert Brower. I felt the need to look deeper for knowing Gail
                        > Mendes I knew she would not share all the facts with the council.
                        >
                        > I served on the UTR Exec. Board for 14 years and I do know the nature of
                        > Gail Mendes. The debate was lively only because Pres. Gail Mendes did not want a
                        > discussion but a rubber stamp from the council. She and Pixie
                        > Hayward-Schickele our CTA board member would not allow nominations from the floor which made
                        > members more up set for it seemed like a set up to me and others.
                        >
                        > Charlie I do not know where you are getting your information from but no one
                        > from the out side wrangled rep. council members. Yes members are miffed at
                        > Gail Mendes because she BULLIES them and is HEAVY HANDED. The research brought
                        > in by my self and others was the straw that broke the camels back.
                        >
                        > You did not slip you only put out unsubstantiated information. Using your
                        > own words it seems to me that you are the muckraker. I feel that an apology
                        > needs to be made to the individual you implicated.
                        >
                        > I want to be very clear that the yet-unnamed person was me and I am not
                        > behind the scene but a 28 year dues paying member of UTR/CTA/NEA and 14 year
                        > member of UTRS Exec.Board.
                        >
                        > MEL COLLINS
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Charley Cowens
                        Mel, So, the explicit promise made by Karen Pfeifer and Dave Brown to the UTR was no school closures. There was no explicit promise about the K-8 issue.
                        Message 11 of 20 , Sep 2, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Mel,

                          So, the explicit promise made by Karen Pfeifer and Dave Brown to the
                          UTR was no school closures. There was no explicit promise about the
                          K-8 issue.

                          Charley Cowens

                          On 9/1/06, Diamel@... <Diamel@...> wrote:
                          > Charlie lets not play on words here. there is nothing implicit in politics. What I said was those were promises made. They campaigned on no school closures. Schools were closed. In regards to k-8 to go k-8 one or more middle schools would have to be closed.
                          >
                          > Mel Collins
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: charley.cowens@...
                          > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 1:39 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
                          >
                          >
                          > Mel-
                          >
                          > I zeroed in on this sentence in your post: "Teachers will never forget
                          > how the elected members from the last board election went against
                          > nearly every promise they made to us i.e. schools were closed and the
                          > k-8 issue surfaced." Are you saying both Karen Pfeifer and Dave Brown
                          > explicitly promised the UTR to keep K-8 off the table?
                          >
                          > Charley Cowens
                          >
                          > On 9/1/06, Diamel@... <Diamel@...> wrote:
                          > > Kevin UTR does not have talking points in regards to candidate endorsements.
                          > You are correct it is simply at the whim of whom ever happens to be on the UTR
                          > Exec. Board.
                          > >
                          > > Rep. Council did not vote down the endorsement because a candidate disgusts
                          > someone or if the candidate was brought to a meeting by someone not liked. Yes
                          > the firm she works for was a huge issue. By the way is your printing business
                          > unionized.
                          > >
                          > > UTR does not have requirements for candidates but many times in the past
                          > candidates have used UTRS endorsement to get elected and turned around after
                          > being elected and really burned the teachers. Teachers will never forget how the
                          > elected members from the last board election went against nearly every promise
                          > they made to us i.e. schools were closed and the k-8 issue surfaced.
                          > >
                          > > Kevin for you to throw out unsubstantiated comments as you have just done you
                          > have lowered any credibility I have had for you. I was there for many years when
                          > you fought your battles against the District to arrive where you are today.
                          > >
                          > > MEL COLLINS
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: kfrivard@...
                          > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Cc: Diamel@...
                          > > Sent: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 7:08 AM
                          > > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Diane,
                          > >
                          > > Please post the requirements that a candidate needs to be endorsed by your
                          > organization. It will be interesting to see if you have a "talking points" list
                          > of requirements or is it simply the whim of whom ever happens to be on the board
                          > of your organization at the time of endorsement.
                          > >
                          > > Since your primary objection to Ms Meade is that she works for someone who
                          > disgusts you, is there a requirement that the candidate like kids, has
                          > volunteered in the schools, volunteered in the community, lived in the community
                          > for a period of time, is asked about education and knows the issues at hand in
                          > our district, has some sound and thought out solutions to our problems in the
                          > district and so on and could that override your primary objection.
                          > >
                          > > Your endorsements means absolutely nothing to me when I read the only reasons
                          > of prominence that you bring forward is she was brought to the meeting by a
                          > person you do not like and works at a firm you do not like.
                          > >
                          > > If you want credibility in your endorsements tell me how the people you
                          > support fulfill your organizations requirements and how your candidates have
                          > supported the community and the schools along with their ideas as to how they
                          > will bring positive change to the district.
                          > >
                          > > Until you lay out a credible reasoning why you support or do not support a
                          > candidate and simply throw some unsubstantiated rumors against the wall and hope
                          > they stick will simply lower any credibility your organizations endorsement
                          > carries.
                          > >
                          > > Kevin
                          > >
                          > > >From: Diamel@...
                          > > >Reply-To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                          > > >To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                          > > >Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
                          > > >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:31:50 EDT
                          > > >
                          > > >Marguertie E. Meade website:
                          > > >
                          > > >_http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm_ >(http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm)
                          > > >
                          > > >Diane Brown
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > ________________________________________________________________________
                          > > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM.
                          > All on demand. Always Free.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________________________________________________
                          > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.