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Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement

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  • Eduardo Martinez
    The rep council did not know that endorsements were on the agenda. We were not given a chance to discuss the candidates as the motion was put forth by the
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
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      The rep council did not know that endorsements were on
      the agenda. We were not given a chance to discuss the
      candidates as the motion was put forth by the
      president during the last 10 minutes of the meeting.
      The rep council had to force a discussion. This might
      not have happened if one of the executive board
      members hadn't done some research. The question
      should not be, ">I wonder what power he holds over the
      rep council??<", but rather, "What does the executive
      board see in the candidates they wanted the rep
      council to endorse?" That question was never answered
      although it was asked by members at the rep council
      meeting.

      The leadership seems to think leading is telling
      others what to do. In a democratic society we need to
      be informed voters. The executive board did not
      inform the rep council about any candidates, only
      giving us the "trust me, you elected me" rational. The
      era of herding the sheep to the vote is over. The rep
      council is beginning to become a collective of
      representatives, not the rubber stamp it has been in
      past years. The fact that we, the members of the rep
      council, called for extra time to have discussion on
      the endorsements over the objections of the president
      is a good sign.

      A question I pose to you is: why do you think UTR
      needs to endorse three candidates? By endorsing
      anyone, the power of the endorsement is watered down.
      For the record: I did vote to endorse Tony Medrano
      because I have seen and heard him at school board
      meetings. I know that he cares and is informed. The
      other two people the executive board wanted the rep
      council to endorse are as yet strangers to me. I will
      not personally endorse them until I learn who they are
      and for what they stand. Would you endorse someone
      just because you were told to do so?

      Eduardo


      --- jim cowen <jimcowen@...> wrote:

      > Diane wrote
      > > > Before the rep
      > > council meeting we researched
      > > > the firm and Ms. Mead. After a lively debate at
      > > the rep council meeting the
      > > > recommended endorsement was voted down
      >
      > I'm curious Diane. Did the rep council "research"
      > any
      > other candidates? Or, did they only research Ms
      > Meade
      > at the request of some as-yet-unnamed behind the
      > scenes muckraker?
      >
      > Why was there "lively debate". Does that mean that,
      > even with the prior "research", there were still rep
      > council members in favor of her?
      >
      > Some other thoughts...
      > --Ms Meade seems to have been hand-picked by UTR
      > exec
      > board. Obviously, they did not find 3 candidates
      > worthy of endorsement after the first filing
      > deadline.
      > Then, in the following 5 days, they perhaps
      > encouraged Ms Meade and Ms Miles to run, so that,
      > along with Mr Medrano, they would be able to endorse
      > 3
      > candidates.
      >
      > --Somebody wrangled the rep council members to vote
      > against Ms Meade. Probably because he was mad that
      > he
      > was not getting the endorsement himself, which as an
      > incumbent he felt he deserved. I bet he is pretty
      > miffed at Gail Mendes for having brought forth more
      > competition for him.
      >
      > --Oops, did I slip and give a hint as to who I think
      > did the back room wrangling? I wonder what power he
      > holds over the rep council??
      >
      > Jim Cowen
      >
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    • Kevin Rivard
      Diane, Please post the requirements that a candidate needs to be endorsed by your organization. It will be interesting to see if you have a talking points
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
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        Diane,

        Please post the requirements that a candidate needs to be endorsed by your
        organization. It will be interesting to see if you have a "talking points"
        list of requirements or is it simply the whim of whom ever happens to be on
        the board of your organization at the time of endorsement.

        Since your primary objection to Ms Meade is that she works for someone who
        disgusts you, is there a requirement that the candidate like kids, has
        volunteered in the schools, volunteered in the community, lived in the
        community for a period of time, is asked about education and knows the
        issues at hand in our district, has some sound and thought out solutions to
        our problems in the district and so on and could that override your primary
        objection.

        Your endorsements means absolutely nothing to me when I read the only
        reasons of prominence that you bring forward is she was brought to the
        meeting by a person you do not like and works at a firm you do not like.

        If you want credibility in your endorsements tell me how the people you
        support fulfill your organizations requirements and how your candidates have
        supported the community and the schools along with their ideas as to how
        they will bring positive change to the district.

        Until you lay out a credible reasoning why you support or do not support a
        candidate and simply throw some unsubstantiated rumors against the wall and
        hope they stick will simply lower any credibility your organizations
        endorsement carries.

        Kevin

        >From: Diamel@...
        >Reply-To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
        >To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
        >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:31:50 EDT
        >
        >Marguertie E. Meade website:
        >
        >_http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm_
        >(http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm)
        >
        >Diane Brown
        >
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Diamel@aol.com
        Kevin UTR does not have talking points in regards to candidate endorsements. You are correct it is simply at the whim of whom ever happens to be on the UTR
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
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          Kevin UTR does not have talking points in regards to candidate endorsements. You are correct it is simply at the whim of whom ever happens to be on the UTR Exec. Board.

          Rep. Council did not vote down the endorsement because a candidate disgusts someone or if the candidate was brought to a meeting by someone not liked. Yes the firm she works for was a huge issue. By the way is your printing business unionized.

          UTR does not have requirements for candidates but many times in the past candidates have used UTRS endorsement to get elected and turned around after being elected and really burned the teachers. Teachers will never forget how the elected members from the last board election went against nearly every promise they made to us i.e. schools were closed and the k-8 issue surfaced.

          Kevin for you to throw out unsubstantiated comments as you have just done you have lowered any credibility I have had for you. I was there for many years when you fought your battles against the District to arrive where you are today.

          MEL COLLINS


          -----Original Message-----
          From: kfrivard@...
          To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: Diamel@...
          Sent: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 7:08 AM
          Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement


          Diane,

          Please post the requirements that a candidate needs to be endorsed by your organization. It will be interesting to see if you have a "talking points" list of requirements or is it simply the whim of whom ever happens to be on the board of your organization at the time of endorsement.

          Since your primary objection to Ms Meade is that she works for someone who disgusts you, is there a requirement that the candidate like kids, has volunteered in the schools, volunteered in the community, lived in the community for a period of time, is asked about education and knows the issues at hand in our district, has some sound and thought out solutions to our problems in the district and so on and could that override your primary objection.

          Your endorsements means absolutely nothing to me when I read the only reasons of prominence that you bring forward is she was brought to the meeting by a person you do not like and works at a firm you do not like.

          If you want credibility in your endorsements tell me how the people you support fulfill your organizations requirements and how your candidates have supported the community and the schools along with their ideas as to how they will bring positive change to the district.

          Until you lay out a credible reasoning why you support or do not support a candidate and simply throw some unsubstantiated rumors against the wall and hope they stick will simply lower any credibility your organizations endorsement carries.

          Kevin

          >From: Diamel@...
          >Reply-To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
          >To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
          >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:31:50 EDT
          >
          >Marguertie E. Meade website:
          >
          >_http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm_ >(http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm)
          >
          >Diane Brown
          >
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >

          ________________________________________________________________________
          Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Charley Cowens
          Mel- I zeroed in on this sentence in your post: Teachers will never forget how the elected members from the last board election went against nearly every
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
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            Mel-

            I zeroed in on this sentence in your post: "Teachers will never forget
            how the elected members from the last board election went against
            nearly every promise they made to us i.e. schools were closed and the
            k-8 issue surfaced." Are you saying both Karen Pfeifer and Dave Brown
            explicitly promised the UTR to keep K-8 off the table?

            Charley Cowens

            On 9/1/06, Diamel@... <Diamel@...> wrote:
            > Kevin UTR does not have talking points in regards to candidate endorsements. You are correct it is simply at the whim of whom ever happens to be on the UTR Exec. Board.
            >
            > Rep. Council did not vote down the endorsement because a candidate disgusts someone or if the candidate was brought to a meeting by someone not liked. Yes the firm she works for was a huge issue. By the way is your printing business unionized.
            >
            > UTR does not have requirements for candidates but many times in the past candidates have used UTRS endorsement to get elected and turned around after being elected and really burned the teachers. Teachers will never forget how the elected members from the last board election went against nearly every promise they made to us i.e. schools were closed and the k-8 issue surfaced.
            >
            > Kevin for you to throw out unsubstantiated comments as you have just done you have lowered any credibility I have had for you. I was there for many years when you fought your battles against the District to arrive where you are today.
            >
            > MEL COLLINS
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: kfrivard@...
            > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
            > Cc: Diamel@...
            > Sent: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 7:08 AM
            > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
            >
            >
            > Diane,
            >
            > Please post the requirements that a candidate needs to be endorsed by your organization. It will be interesting to see if you have a "talking points" list of requirements or is it simply the whim of whom ever happens to be on the board of your organization at the time of endorsement.
            >
            > Since your primary objection to Ms Meade is that she works for someone who disgusts you, is there a requirement that the candidate like kids, has volunteered in the schools, volunteered in the community, lived in the community for a period of time, is asked about education and knows the issues at hand in our district, has some sound and thought out solutions to our problems in the district and so on and could that override your primary objection.
            >
            > Your endorsements means absolutely nothing to me when I read the only reasons of prominence that you bring forward is she was brought to the meeting by a person you do not like and works at a firm you do not like.
            >
            > If you want credibility in your endorsements tell me how the people you support fulfill your organizations requirements and how your candidates have supported the community and the schools along with their ideas as to how they will bring positive change to the district.
            >
            > Until you lay out a credible reasoning why you support or do not support a candidate and simply throw some unsubstantiated rumors against the wall and hope they stick will simply lower any credibility your organizations endorsement carries.
            >
            > Kevin
            >
            > >From: Diamel@...
            > >Reply-To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
            > >To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
            > >Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
            > >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:31:50 EDT
            > >
            > >Marguertie E. Meade website:
            > >
            > >_http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm_ >(http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm)
            > >
            > >Diane Brown
            > >
            > >
            > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            > ________________________________________________________________________
            > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Diamel@aol.com
            Charlie lets not play on words here. there is nothing implicit in politics. What I said was those were promises made. They campaigned on no school closures.
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
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              Charlie lets not play on words here. there is nothing implicit in politics. What I said was those were promises made. They campaigned on no school closures. Schools were closed. In regards to k-8 to go k-8 one or more middle schools would have to be closed.

              Mel Collins


              -----Original Message-----
              From: charley.cowens@...
              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 1:39 PM
              Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement


              Mel-

              I zeroed in on this sentence in your post: "Teachers will never forget
              how the elected members from the last board election went against
              nearly every promise they made to us i.e. schools were closed and the
              k-8 issue surfaced." Are you saying both Karen Pfeifer and Dave Brown
              explicitly promised the UTR to keep K-8 off the table?

              Charley Cowens

              On 9/1/06, Diamel@... <Diamel@...> wrote:
              > Kevin UTR does not have talking points in regards to candidate endorsements.
              You are correct it is simply at the whim of whom ever happens to be on the UTR
              Exec. Board.
              >
              > Rep. Council did not vote down the endorsement because a candidate disgusts
              someone or if the candidate was brought to a meeting by someone not liked. Yes
              the firm she works for was a huge issue. By the way is your printing business
              unionized.
              >
              > UTR does not have requirements for candidates but many times in the past
              candidates have used UTRS endorsement to get elected and turned around after
              being elected and really burned the teachers. Teachers will never forget how the
              elected members from the last board election went against nearly every promise
              they made to us i.e. schools were closed and the k-8 issue surfaced.
              >
              > Kevin for you to throw out unsubstantiated comments as you have just done you
              have lowered any credibility I have had for you. I was there for many years when
              you fought your battles against the District to arrive where you are today.
              >
              > MEL COLLINS
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: kfrivard@...
              > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
              > Cc: Diamel@...
              > Sent: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 7:08 AM
              > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
              >
              >
              > Diane,
              >
              > Please post the requirements that a candidate needs to be endorsed by your
              organization. It will be interesting to see if you have a "talking points" list
              of requirements or is it simply the whim of whom ever happens to be on the board
              of your organization at the time of endorsement.
              >
              > Since your primary objection to Ms Meade is that she works for someone who
              disgusts you, is there a requirement that the candidate like kids, has
              volunteered in the schools, volunteered in the community, lived in the community
              for a period of time, is asked about education and knows the issues at hand in
              our district, has some sound and thought out solutions to our problems in the
              district and so on and could that override your primary objection.
              >
              > Your endorsements means absolutely nothing to me when I read the only reasons
              of prominence that you bring forward is she was brought to the meeting by a
              person you do not like and works at a firm you do not like.
              >
              > If you want credibility in your endorsements tell me how the people you
              support fulfill your organizations requirements and how your candidates have
              supported the community and the schools along with their ideas as to how they
              will bring positive change to the district.
              >
              > Until you lay out a credible reasoning why you support or do not support a
              candidate and simply throw some unsubstantiated rumors against the wall and hope
              they stick will simply lower any credibility your organizations endorsement
              carries.
              >
              > Kevin
              >
              > >From: Diamel@...
              > >Reply-To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
              > >To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
              > >Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
              > >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:31:50 EDT
              > >
              > >Marguertie E. Meade website:
              > >
              > >_http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm_ >(http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm)
              > >
              > >Diane Brown
              > >
              > >
              > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              > ________________________________________________________________________
              > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM.
              All on demand. Always Free.
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >



              Yahoo! Groups Links




              ________________________________________________________________________
              Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Diamel@aol.com
              Charlie, members of rep council did there own investigation and brought the information to rep council to share with members. I down loaded the voter
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
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                Charlie, members of rep council did there own investigation and brought the
                information to rep council to share with members. I down loaded the voter
                information pamphlet and only found out that she was a lawyer. She never
                mentioned her experience or mentioned what type of cases she was involved in as did
                candidate Robert Brower. I felt the need to look deeper for knowing Gail
                Mendes I knew she would not share all the facts with the council.

                I served on the UTR Exec. Board for 14 years and I do know the nature of
                Gail Mendes. The debate was lively only because Pres. Gail Mendes did not want a
                discussion but a rubber stamp from the council. She and Pixie
                Hayward-Schickele our CTA board member would not allow nominations from the floor which made
                members more up set for it seemed like a set up to me and others.

                Charlie I do not know where you are getting your information from but no one
                from the out side wrangled rep. council members. Yes members are miffed at
                Gail Mendes because she BULLIES them and is HEAVY HANDED. The research brought
                in by my self and others was the straw that broke the camels back.

                You did not slip you only put out unsubstantiated information. Using your
                own words it seems to me that you are the muckraker. I feel that an apology
                needs to be made to the individual you implicated.

                I want to be very clear that the yet-unnamed person was me and I am not
                behind the scene but a 28 year dues paying member of UTR/CTA/NEA and 14 year
                member of UTRS Exec.Board.

                MEL COLLINS


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • jim cowen
                When the UTR exec board proposed Medrano, Miles and Meade, that was a blow to the incumbent candidate. Based on all the information presented, it certainly
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
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                  When the UTR exec board proposed Medrano, Miles and
                  Meade, that was a blow to the incumbent candidate.

                  Based on all the information presented, it certainly
                  appears that someone on the rep council, for some
                  reason, "researched" Ms. Meade to a much greater
                  extent than it usually would research any candidate.
                  If the endorsements weren't even on the agenda, then
                  WHY had someone "researched" Ms. Meade?? The logical
                  assumption was that someone on the rep council was
                  tipped off with regard to what to look for, or was
                  simply given the information.

                  When the UTR rep council dropped Ms Meade as an
                  endorsement, that was a good thing for the incumbent
                  candidate.

                  It certainly APPEARS that the rep council was played.
                  They may not want to admit it, and they may
                  nonetheless be quite happy with their final vote, but
                  the appearance that they were played is nonetheless
                  out there.

                  It is likely best to just leave it alone at this
                  point. But, if the rep council members want to defend
                  their stance, they should clearly state who
                  "researched" Ms Meade, and why they researched Ms
                  Meade when they clearly did not "research" the other
                  candidates.

                  Quick - members of the rep council:
                  -can you state what type of law Mr Brower practices?
                  -can you state what type of law Mr. Ramsey
                  practices?
                  -have you done any research on any of the other
                  candidates?

                  I suspect there will be no answer forthcoming, and the
                  impression that the rep council was fed information
                  will stand.

                  Jim Cowen
                  P.S. please dont confuse Jim Cowen and Charlie
                  Cowens. We both get into enough trouble on our own!!


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                • sunsetjill
                  Mel Collins Wrote : Charlie lets not play on words here. there is nothing implicit in politics. What I said was those were promises made. They campaigned on no
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
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                    Mel Collins Wrote :
                    Charlie lets not play on words here. there is nothing implicit in
                    politics. What I said was those were promises made. They campaigned on
                    no school closures. Schools were closed. In regards to k-8 to go k-8
                    one or more middle schools would have to be closed.

                    Mel Collins

                    Jill Writes:
                    As a member of the public whom attended school board meetings to keep
                    schools open, I would like to remind you that Dave Brown voted "NO" to
                    closing any schools. Unfortunately his vote did not help and Seaview
                    was closed.
                    Also as someone that participated on the K8. Oh what a set up this
                    was and a waste of time for me. But let's set the record straight!
                    Karen Pheifer did not want any part of K8. She only attended a few
                    meetings in the beginning. When her proposal for a GATE K8 did not go
                    over very well, she did not seem to attend any further meetings.
                    Remember Karen Pheifer voted to Close Schools!
                    Also Dave Brown made a comment at a K8 that he would consider
                    resigning if we proposed closing any Middle Schools. He said that he
                    did make promises and did not want to go thru that again.
                    Hope this helps....
                    I did not vote for either Karen or Dave, but I will say I am much
                    happier with Dave the Karen...
                    Which brings up my last comment and I was not going to get involved in
                    this political debate, but maybe you all should look at where the
                    Candadates live. We have had a Strong Support for EL Cerrito...The
                    people that VOTE! I would personaly like to see a more diverse group
                    on the school board! I am tired of having 3 people from the El
                    Cerrito Community on the Board! This has been going on for too many
                    years.

                    Jill Wolkenfeld
                  • rcs101@att.net
                    --Jim: I am not going to mix you up with Charlie again, but only a note to say, I agree with you and would hope that the public would not allow UTR or any big
                    Message 9 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
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                      --Jim:

                      I am not going to mix you up with Charlie again, but only a note to say, I agree with you and would hope that the public would not allow UTR or any big donor or organization to dictate how they should vote. At this time, I can not say which candidate I will vote for, but I will take a strong look at who is supporting each candidate; and if they are connected to any powerful lobbying person, group or organization, I would be very careful about supporting them. Because one has to ask what vested interest does the group or organization have in supporting a particular candidate. I am much more interested in the latter than what part of the district they come from, just because a person comes from Richmond, San Pablo, Pinole, etc., it does not mean that person is looking out for the best interest of that area or listening to the parents, students and teachers of said area.



                      Scottie Smith



                      -------------- Original message ----------------------
                      From: jim cowen <jimcowen@...>
                      > When the UTR exec board proposed Medrano, Miles and
                      > Meade, that was a blow to the incumbent candidate.
                      >
                      > Based on all the information presented, it certainly
                      > appears that someone on the rep council, for some
                      > reason, "researched" Ms. Meade to a much greater
                      > extent than it usually would research any candidate.
                      > If the endorsements weren't even on the agenda, then
                      > WHY had someone "researched" Ms. Meade?? The logical
                      > assumption was that someone on the rep council was
                      > tipped off with regard to what to look for, or was
                      > simply given the information.
                      >
                      > When the UTR rep council dropped Ms Meade as an
                      > endorsement, that was a good thing for the incumbent
                      > candidate.
                      >
                      > It certainly APPEARS that the rep council was played.
                      > They may not want to admit it, and they may
                      > nonetheless be quite happy with their final vote, but
                      > the appearance that they were played is nonetheless
                      > out there.
                      >
                      > It is likely best to just leave it alone at this
                      > point. But, if the rep council members want to defend
                      > their stance, they should clearly state who
                      > "researched" Ms Meade, and why they researched Ms
                      > Meade when they clearly did not "research" the other
                      > candidates.
                      >
                      > Quick - members of the rep council:
                      > -can you state what type of law Mr Brower practices?
                      > -can you state what type of law Mr. Ramsey
                      > practices?
                      > -have you done any research on any of the other
                      > candidates?
                      >
                      > I suspect there will be no answer forthcoming, and the
                      > impression that the rep council was fed information
                      > will stand.
                      >
                      > Jim Cowen
                      > P.S. please dont confuse Jim Cowen and Charlie
                      > Cowens. We both get into enough trouble on our own!!
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
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                      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                    • rcs101@att.net
                      --Eduardo: Thanks for leaving the door open and advocating for informed voting . But my brother, be very careful about putting out your support signs for
                      Message 10 of 20 , Sep 1, 2006
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                        --Eduardo:

                        Thanks for leaving the door open and advocating for "informed voting". But my brother, be very careful about putting out your support signs for anyone at this stage of the game, particularly when the important issues that Elizabeth has put on the table have not been fully addressed by the candidates.

                        Scottie Smith



                        -------------- Original message ----------------------
                        From: Eduardo Martinez <ezedmartin@...>
                        > The rep council did not know that endorsements were on
                        > the agenda. We were not given a chance to discuss the
                        > candidates as the motion was put forth by the
                        > president during the last 10 minutes of the meeting.
                        > The rep council had to force a discussion. This might
                        > not have happened if one of the executive board
                        > members hadn't done some research. The question
                        > should not be, ">I wonder what power he holds over the
                        > rep council??<", but rather, "What does the executive
                        > board see in the candidates they wanted the rep
                        > council to endorse?" That question was never answered
                        > although it was asked by members at the rep council
                        > meeting.
                        >
                        > The leadership seems to think leading is telling
                        > others what to do. In a democratic society we need to
                        > be informed voters. The executive board did not
                        > inform the rep council about any candidates, only
                        > giving us the "trust me, you elected me" rational. The
                        > era of herding the sheep to the vote is over. The rep
                        > council is beginning to become a collective of
                        > representatives, not the rubber stamp it has been in
                        > past years. The fact that we, the members of the rep
                        > council, called for extra time to have discussion on
                        > the endorsements over the objections of the president
                        > is a good sign.
                        >
                        > A question I pose to you is: why do you think UTR
                        > needs to endorse three candidates? By endorsing
                        > anyone, the power of the endorsement is watered down.
                        > For the record: I did vote to endorse Tony Medrano
                        > because I have seen and heard him at school board
                        > meetings. I know that he cares and is informed. The
                        > other two people the executive board wanted the rep
                        > council to endorse are as yet strangers to me. I will
                        > not personally endorse them until I learn who they are
                        > and for what they stand. Would you endorse someone
                        > just because you were told to do so?
                        >
                        > Eduardo
                        >
                        >
                        > --- jim cowen <jimcowen@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > Diane wrote
                        > > > > Before the rep
                        > > > council meeting we researched
                        > > > > the firm and Ms. Mead. After a lively debate at
                        > > > the rep council meeting the
                        > > > > recommended endorsement was voted down
                        > >
                        > > I'm curious Diane. Did the rep council "research"
                        > > any
                        > > other candidates? Or, did they only research Ms
                        > > Meade
                        > > at the request of some as-yet-unnamed behind the
                        > > scenes muckraker?
                        > >
                        > > Why was there "lively debate". Does that mean that,
                        > > even with the prior "research", there were still rep
                        > > council members in favor of her?
                        > >
                        > > Some other thoughts...
                        > > --Ms Meade seems to have been hand-picked by UTR
                        > > exec
                        > > board. Obviously, they did not find 3 candidates
                        > > worthy of endorsement after the first filing
                        > > deadline.
                        > > Then, in the following 5 days, they perhaps
                        > > encouraged Ms Meade and Ms Miles to run, so that,
                        > > along with Mr Medrano, they would be able to endorse
                        > > 3
                        > > candidates.
                        > >
                        > > --Somebody wrangled the rep council members to vote
                        > > against Ms Meade. Probably because he was mad that
                        > > he
                        > > was not getting the endorsement himself, which as an
                        > > incumbent he felt he deserved. I bet he is pretty
                        > > miffed at Gail Mendes for having brought forth more
                        > > competition for him.
                        > >
                        > > --Oops, did I slip and give a hint as to who I think
                        > > did the back room wrangling? I wonder what power he
                        > > holds over the rep council??
                        > >
                        > > Jim Cowen
                        > >
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                      • Eduardo Martinez
                        Jim, I was expecting some sort of response to my last post and was surprised that you ignored it, but still responded to the issue to which I had written. I
                        Message 11 of 20 , Sep 2, 2006
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                          Jim,

                          I was expecting some sort of response to my last post
                          and was surprised that you ignored it, but still
                          responded to the issue to which I had written.

                          I will respond to points and questions that you have
                          brought forth.

                          --- jim cowen <jimcowen@...> wrote:

                          > When the UTR exec board proposed Medrano, Miles and
                          > Meade, that was a blow to the incumbent candidate.
                          >
                          > Based on all the information presented, it certainly
                          > appears that someone on the rep council, for some
                          > reason, "researched" Ms. Meade to a much greater
                          > extent than it usually would research any candidate.
                          > If the endorsements weren't even on the agenda, then
                          > WHY had someone "researched" Ms. Meade?? The
                          > logical
                          > assumption was that someone on the rep council was
                          > tipped off with regard to what to look for, or was
                          > simply given the information.

                          Mel Collins is not only a rep council member, but one
                          of the few UTR executive board members who attempts to
                          make the dealings of the executive board transparent.
                          He is an independent thinker who is often at odds with
                          the hand picked and groomed members of the executive
                          board. The rep council was fortunate to Mel be aware
                          of the executive board's attempt to force an
                          endorsement which might not be good for the union.
                          >
                          >
                          > When the UTR rep council dropped Ms Meade as an
                          > endorsement, that was a good thing for the incumbent
                          > candidate.

                          You seem to have an issue with "the incumbent
                          candidate". The question for the rep council wasn't:
                          "Is this good or bad for the incumbent?" but rather,
                          "Is this good or bad for the union?"

                          >
                          > It certainly APPEARS that the rep council was
                          > played.
                          > They may not want to admit it, and they may
                          > nonetheless be quite happy with their final vote,
                          > but
                          > the appearance that they were played is nonetheless
                          > out there.

                          I don't understand how you can insinuate that the rep
                          council was played for having some information given
                          to them. Are you implying that they wouldn't have
                          been played if no information was given? The UTR
                          leadership is at fault for asking the rep council to
                          vote without giving them any information to make an
                          informed decision. I would say that the rep council
                          has been played by the UTR executive board for a long
                          time, not for being given information, but rather for
                          NOT being given information and ordered to make a
                          decision. As I stated in my previous reply to you.
                          Medrano is the only candidate that I personally
                          endorse.
                          >
                          > It is likely best to just leave it alone at this
                          > point. But, if the rep council members want to
                          > defend
                          > their stance, they should clearly state who
                          > "researched" Ms Meade, and why they researched Ms
                          > Meade when they clearly did not "research" the other
                          > candidates.

                          I will not defend the rep council's endorsement of the
                          other candidates since they voted without doing
                          research, although I am glad that Medrano was
                          endorsed. I will defend the rep council's decision to
                          not endorse Ms. Meade, if not for the fact that her
                          history implies that her tenure on the school board
                          would be bad for the union, then for the fact that the
                          UTR leadership did not give the rep council enough
                          information to make an informed decision.
                          >
                          > Quick - members of the rep council:
                          > -can you state what type of law Mr Brower
                          > practices?
                          > -can you state what type of law Mr. Ramsey
                          > practices?
                          > -have you done any research on any of the other
                          > candidates?

                          I would hope that the other lawyers you mention would
                          have been researched if they had been recommended for
                          endorsement and of course if the rep council had been
                          made aware of the vote to endorse.

                          >
                          > I suspect there will be no answer forthcoming, and
                          > the
                          > impression that the rep council was fed information
                          > will stand.

                          From your comment, I take it you think rep council
                          members cannot think for themselves and need others to
                          tell them what to look into. As I've stated before,
                          that might have been true in the past, but we are
                          developing a proactive rep council that will lead the
                          union democratically and not be lead by a "leadership"
                          that thinks we only need to rubber stamp their
                          decisions.
                          >
                          > Jim Cowen
                          > P.S. please dont confuse Jim Cowen and Charlie
                          > Cowens. We both get into enough trouble on our
                          > own!!
                          >
                          >
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                        • Charley Cowens
                          Mel- You seem to be confusing me with Kevin Rivard and (mostly) Jim Cowen in this particular response below. You might have been thrown by the similarity of
                          Message 12 of 20 , Sep 2, 2006
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                            Mel-

                            You seem to be confusing me with Kevin Rivard and (mostly) Jim Cowen
                            in this particular response below. You might have been thrown by the
                            similarity of Jim's last name and mine. It's happened before.

                            Charley Cowens

                            On 9/1/06, Diamel@... <Diamel@...> wrote:
                            > Charlie, members of rep council did there own investigation and brought the
                            > information to rep council to share with members. I down loaded the voter
                            > information pamphlet and only found out that she was a lawyer. She never
                            > mentioned her experience or mentioned what type of cases she was involved in as did
                            > candidate Robert Brower. I felt the need to look deeper for knowing Gail
                            > Mendes I knew she would not share all the facts with the council.
                            >
                            > I served on the UTR Exec. Board for 14 years and I do know the nature of
                            > Gail Mendes. The debate was lively only because Pres. Gail Mendes did not want a
                            > discussion but a rubber stamp from the council. She and Pixie
                            > Hayward-Schickele our CTA board member would not allow nominations from the floor which made
                            > members more up set for it seemed like a set up to me and others.
                            >
                            > Charlie I do not know where you are getting your information from but no one
                            > from the out side wrangled rep. council members. Yes members are miffed at
                            > Gail Mendes because she BULLIES them and is HEAVY HANDED. The research brought
                            > in by my self and others was the straw that broke the camels back.
                            >
                            > You did not slip you only put out unsubstantiated information. Using your
                            > own words it seems to me that you are the muckraker. I feel that an apology
                            > needs to be made to the individual you implicated.
                            >
                            > I want to be very clear that the yet-unnamed person was me and I am not
                            > behind the scene but a 28 year dues paying member of UTR/CTA/NEA and 14 year
                            > member of UTRS Exec.Board.
                            >
                            > MEL COLLINS
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
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                          • Charley Cowens
                            Mel, So, the explicit promise made by Karen Pfeifer and Dave Brown to the UTR was no school closures. There was no explicit promise about the K-8 issue.
                            Message 13 of 20 , Sep 2, 2006
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                              Mel,

                              So, the explicit promise made by Karen Pfeifer and Dave Brown to the
                              UTR was no school closures. There was no explicit promise about the
                              K-8 issue.

                              Charley Cowens

                              On 9/1/06, Diamel@... <Diamel@...> wrote:
                              > Charlie lets not play on words here. there is nothing implicit in politics. What I said was those were promises made. They campaigned on no school closures. Schools were closed. In regards to k-8 to go k-8 one or more middle schools would have to be closed.
                              >
                              > Mel Collins
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: charley.cowens@...
                              > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 1:39 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
                              >
                              >
                              > Mel-
                              >
                              > I zeroed in on this sentence in your post: "Teachers will never forget
                              > how the elected members from the last board election went against
                              > nearly every promise they made to us i.e. schools were closed and the
                              > k-8 issue surfaced." Are you saying both Karen Pfeifer and Dave Brown
                              > explicitly promised the UTR to keep K-8 off the table?
                              >
                              > Charley Cowens
                              >
                              > On 9/1/06, Diamel@... <Diamel@...> wrote:
                              > > Kevin UTR does not have talking points in regards to candidate endorsements.
                              > You are correct it is simply at the whim of whom ever happens to be on the UTR
                              > Exec. Board.
                              > >
                              > > Rep. Council did not vote down the endorsement because a candidate disgusts
                              > someone or if the candidate was brought to a meeting by someone not liked. Yes
                              > the firm she works for was a huge issue. By the way is your printing business
                              > unionized.
                              > >
                              > > UTR does not have requirements for candidates but many times in the past
                              > candidates have used UTRS endorsement to get elected and turned around after
                              > being elected and really burned the teachers. Teachers will never forget how the
                              > elected members from the last board election went against nearly every promise
                              > they made to us i.e. schools were closed and the k-8 issue surfaced.
                              > >
                              > > Kevin for you to throw out unsubstantiated comments as you have just done you
                              > have lowered any credibility I have had for you. I was there for many years when
                              > you fought your battles against the District to arrive where you are today.
                              > >
                              > > MEL COLLINS
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > From: kfrivard@...
                              > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Cc: Diamel@...
                              > > Sent: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 7:08 AM
                              > > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Diane,
                              > >
                              > > Please post the requirements that a candidate needs to be endorsed by your
                              > organization. It will be interesting to see if you have a "talking points" list
                              > of requirements or is it simply the whim of whom ever happens to be on the board
                              > of your organization at the time of endorsement.
                              > >
                              > > Since your primary objection to Ms Meade is that she works for someone who
                              > disgusts you, is there a requirement that the candidate like kids, has
                              > volunteered in the schools, volunteered in the community, lived in the community
                              > for a period of time, is asked about education and knows the issues at hand in
                              > our district, has some sound and thought out solutions to our problems in the
                              > district and so on and could that override your primary objection.
                              > >
                              > > Your endorsements means absolutely nothing to me when I read the only reasons
                              > of prominence that you bring forward is she was brought to the meeting by a
                              > person you do not like and works at a firm you do not like.
                              > >
                              > > If you want credibility in your endorsements tell me how the people you
                              > support fulfill your organizations requirements and how your candidates have
                              > supported the community and the schools along with their ideas as to how they
                              > will bring positive change to the district.
                              > >
                              > > Until you lay out a credible reasoning why you support or do not support a
                              > candidate and simply throw some unsubstantiated rumors against the wall and hope
                              > they stick will simply lower any credibility your organizations endorsement
                              > carries.
                              > >
                              > > Kevin
                              > >
                              > > >From: Diamel@...
                              > > >Reply-To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                              > > >To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                              > > >Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] RE: UTR School Board Endorsement
                              > > >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:31:50 EDT
                              > > >
                              > > >Marguertie E. Meade website:
                              > > >
                              > > >_http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm_ >(http://www.sfdavislaw.xom/bio_me.htm)
                              > > >
                              > > >Diane Brown
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > > ________________________________________________________________________
                              > > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM.
                              > All on demand. Always Free.
                              > >
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