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Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

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  • Norma J F Harrison
    While well-off to Rich children are (I only suspect) getting better services than poor/er children, the situation is that with few exceptions no one is being
    Message 1 of 24 , May 26, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      While well-off to Rich children are (I only suspect) getting better services
      than poor/er children, the situation is that with few exceptions no one is being
      well served by school. The opposite, in fact.
      Yes, it's been a problem to be sure that school become what it started out to
      be, a tool to ready workers to slave for our Owners.  There had been a bit of a
      glitch for a while, with white children, Jewish, for one, or rich - another
      group, Catholics in Catholic school, getting a bit better training than the
      rest.  But that all got equalized when Black children became more a part of the
      student population.  That was really frightening for our Owners. 

      Struggles for justice depend on community, usually the actual source of
      knowledge, study, information. If that were to expand by including more and more
      people/communities, students, it'd be a serious problem for those bosses -
      owners.  So school went from being an intolerable enclosure of students,
      offering a rare good experience, to an increasingly boring, stifling oppression.
      Teachers have been being blamed for that.
      You know all the reasons that's not why.
      School horror is not going to be permitted to do any but get even worse.

      Norma

      ________________________________
      From: Todd Groves tag1022@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu,
      May 26, 2011 4:16:55 PM Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

      The WriterCoach Connection project at ECHS and perhaps Portola this Fall will
      need scores of new coaches. We want to give every 9th Grade student personal
      guidance through the writing process. By establishing personal connections with
      a supportive adult, students will know the community supports their learning.
      You can sign-up by registering here http://www.writercoachconnection.org .

      We need to make volunteering much easier while preserving student safety. Can we
      use local police departments to do the background checks? Would Kaiser consider
      covering TB clearances? Can the board promote volunteering in our growing
      numbers of projects?

      The board and upper leadership can empanel a WCCUSD volunteer commission to
      drive the issue. We need this now to meet the need this Fall.


      Todd Groves

      --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, playeredu@... wrote:
      >
      > These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to
      >get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th
      >grade.  Read Aloud is wonderful, but only at 5 schools and can only handle a
      >small number of early primary students that are recommended by teachers to the
      >program.  A Delta Kappa Gamma chapter has been doing a Birthday Book project at
      >Grant elementary for first and second grade students, but there is no one on one
      >time provided in this program.  My El Cerrito Soroptimist group will start
      >reading to the Kindergarten students next Fall at Grant...Depending on
      >Volunteers and Teacher wishes, the program can be in small groups or one on
      >one.....Both of these programs at Grant give away books to the students....on
      >their Special Day during the year....including summer birthdays in May.....I
      >think there are professional and retired groups that could be recruited, but the
      >Volunteer ID process is too costly and time consuming....At Grant we use
      >recently retired teachers so they have their TB and ID badges....Just a few
      >ideas to get members of this talk program thinking.
      > > > > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Ramosla <Ramosla@...>
      > To: wccusdtalk <wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:34 am
      > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
      > >
      > I haven't given up but when you look at other school districts, ie SRV and they
      >
      > re a C-, that's not good either.  What it tells me is that in those Districts
      > hat the children of color are not getting the same resources as the white
      > hildren, in that the enrichment activities after school are not the same.  That
      >
      > an also be said here and/or by school here, where more monies are funneled into
      >
      > itle 1 schools even when there are Title 1 entitled children at others schools,
      >
      > hose schools are not given those funds but are sent to schools where more than

      > 5% (I think that is it) students are Title 1.  So in fact those students are
      > etting even more resources than intended.  Some of those schools are doing
      > eally well, which furthers my idea about funding and enrichment.  Overall I
      > hink we are making strides in the right direction but we need more funding in
      > he classroom.  We need a technology plan.  We need well educated Teachers.  We

      > eed to have current curriculum that is no
      > t cookie-cutter across the District and recognize that one-size does not fit
      > ll.  We are a very diverse District and have to be able to adjust our programs

      > o fit the needs of the community that the school serves.  I feel that this is
      > one through the School Site Councils, with oversight of course that they are
      > eeting the needs of all children.  There is no easy answer, but you already
      > new that.
      > Laura> 
      > -----Original Message-----
      > rom: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
      > o: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
      > ent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12 am
      > ubject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?>                 
      > id anyone read the headlines yesterday?
      >http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1
      >
      >  Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
      > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
      >
      > nyone have a clue?
      > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what
      >do
      >
      > e do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
      > Todd Groves

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Norma J F Harrison
      children, students. Nicer ways to talk about our people in school.  diminishes them.  like ladies . Norma.... [Non-text portions of this message have been
      Message 2 of 24 , May 27, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        children, students. Nicer ways to talk about our people in school.  diminishes
        them.  like 'ladies'.
        Norma....

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Eduardo Martinez
        Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out what
        Message 3 of 24 , May 29, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education
          assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out
          what that purpose might be. I think we need to define what we believe education
          to be and from that establish what actions might get us there. Then we need to
          figure out the best way to evaluate the results; I say evaluate and not measure
          because some of the most valuable aspects of education cannot be measured:
          social skills, compassion, creativity, community awareness, etc. We are too
          tided into measuring results as if we are working with innate objects that will
          react to the same stimuli over and over. Teaching is a dynamic and creative
          process and the best teachers are the more creative ones with strong social
          skills and a fearlessness that prevents them from being tied down by
          convention.


          I would like to share a video from TED:
          http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1067760674856532262#
          Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative by Sir Ken Robinson
          There are several points that should be heard at: 8:40 where Sir Robinson speaks
          about the hierarchy of education,
          11:15 where he speaks to the industrialization of education and how this has led
          to the belief that academic ability is what education is about,
          13:15 where he defines intelligence as being diverse, dynamic and distinct and
          how education needs to nurture these aspects in learning by addressing the many
          styles of understanding our world, kinetically, visually, aurally, logically,
          physically and intuitively,
          18:00 where he uses a metaphor for how we teach and thereby get an idea of what
          we are doing wrong.

          For those of you who might not watch, I would like to share the story of Gillian
          Lynn, the choreographer of CATS and other Broadway musicals. Because she was a
          failure and behavior problem in school, the principal/councilor suggested to
          Gillian's mother that she might have some neurological problems and might need
          to see a doctor. At the doctor's office the mother shared all the graphs and
          reports given to her by the school and told the doctor why she was concerned
          while Gillian sat there on her hands to keep from moving around. After
          listening, the doctor said he might be able to solve the problem, but that first
          he needed to speak to Gillian privately. The doctor took her into a room with a
          window, asked if she liked music, turned on the radio and excused himself. When
          he approached Gillian's mother, he told her to watch Gillian as Gillian danced
          about to the music. After watching Gillian dance for awhile, the doctor said,
          "You don't have a problem, you have a dancer! Get her out of that school and put
          her into a dance school". Gillian told Sir Robinson that when she stepped into
          the first dance class she no longer felt like an outcast and learned that there
          was a community who thought and felt like her. The school from which Gillian
          was transferred could have been any of our schools where we identify all
          students who need to move as having ADHD. This kind of identifing the strengths
          of students requires an astute staff and even more importantly the will to find
          the best avenue for each student instead of the efforts poured into pounding the
          student into the square peg we have fashioned for him/her.

          Eduardo

          http://www.eduardomartinez4richmond.net/index.html




          ________________________________
          From: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
          To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 9:34:19 AM
          Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?


          We need to expand the decision-making capacity at the district level. Believe it
          or not, we just don't have enough people at the upper levels for our top down
          management style. The need to comply consumes far too much meeting time, leaving
          little for innovation and development. What about partnering with municipalities
          to adapt schools to local needs? We do it with SRO's, are other partnerships
          possible?

          WCCUSD is an unorthodox structure requiring unorthodox approaches. How about an
          advisory board for each High School service area, like a Super SSC. Our most
          persistent problems cannot be resolved at either the school or district level,
          and the ED structures seem to be more about getting paper pushed on time than
          innovating. Save all the money dropped on consultants, and give our master
          teachers special assignment to resolve the most difficult instructional issues.
          It's the only way to resolve the deep problems.

          We need a serious partnership with all parties on addressing our most at-risk
          kids. We can pass these kids from school to school, but it's counterproductive.
          Richmond PD is instituting a new approach, focusing on single families most
          likely to generate trouble. Schools have to be part of the solution.


          Our kids have been lulled into thinking that entourage member can be a career
          goal. The academies are wonderful at instilling job skills, but career exposure
          must start happening in junior high.


          With a little more effort and a lot more forethought, our schools can rapidly
          fulfill their potential. For many in our community, schools must be
          transformative to escape a bleak future. We are close, but need to do much more.

          Todd Groves

          --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, playeredu@... wrote:
          >
          > These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to
          >get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th
          >grade. Read Aloud is wonderful, but only at 5 schools and can only handle a
          >small number of early primary students that are recommended by teachers to the
          >program. A Delta Kappa Gamma chapter has been doing a Birthday Book project at
          >Grant elementary for first and second grade students, but there is no one on one
          >time provided in this program. My El Cerrito Soroptimist group will start
          >reading to the Kindergarten students next Fall at Grant...Depending on
          >Volunteers and Teacher wishes, the program can be in small groups or one on
          >one.....Both of these programs at Grant give away books to the students....on
          >their Special Day during the year....including summer birthdays in May.....I
          >think there are professional and retired groups that could be recruited, but the
          >Volunteer ID process is too costly and time consuming....At Grant we use
          >recently retired teachers so they have their TB and ID badges....Just a few
          >ideas to get members of this talk program thinking.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Ramosla <Ramosla@...>
          > To: wccusdtalk <wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:34 am
          > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
          >
          >
          >
          > I haven't given up but when you look at other school districts, ie SRV and they
          >
          > re a C-, that's not good either. What it tells me is that in those Districts
          > hat the children of color are not getting the same resources as the white
          > hildren, in that the enrichment activities after school are not the same. That
          >
          > an also be said here and/or by school here, where more monies are funneled into
          >
          > itle 1 schools even when there are Title 1 entitled children at others schools,
          >
          > hose schools are not given those funds but are sent to schools where more than

          > 5% (I think that is it) students are Title 1. So in fact those students are
          > etting even more resources than intended. Some of those schools are doing
          > eally well, which furthers my idea about funding and enrichment. Overall I
          > hink we are making strides in the right direction but we need more funding in
          > he classroom. We need a technology plan. We need well educated Teachers. We

          > eed to have current curriculum that is no
          > t cookie-cutter across the District and recognize that one-size does not fit
          > ll. We are a very diverse District and have to be able to adjust our programs

          > o fit the needs of the community that the school serves. I feel that this is
          > one through the School Site Councils, with oversight of course that they are
          > eeting the needs of all children. There is no easy answer, but you already
          > new that.
          > Laura
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > rom: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
          > o: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
          > ent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12 am
          > ubject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > id anyone read the headlines yesterday?
          >http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1
          >
          > Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
          > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
          >
          > nyone have a clue?
          > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what
          >do
          >
          > e do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
          > Todd Groves
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > Individual Email | Traditional
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Norma J F Harrison
          Good teaching is a myth of the for-profit world.  If we can see that the places to be are where people want to be, not where the profit-loaded system
          Message 4 of 24 , May 29, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Good teaching is a myth of the for-profit world.  If we can see that the places
            to be are where people want to be, not where the profit-loaded system requires,
            we can begin to grasp the huge deformity we're up against, and work to change
            it.  Picture a four year old wandering into a shop in which wooden or mixed
            material objects are being made.  What a bunch of teaching goes on there! And
            learning, for that's what happens when teaching is real and not this hold over
            the participants, 'teachers' and students alike.
            And picture the 10 or 20 or 50 year old 'wandering' into a research lab .... or
            onto a farm - small farm must become the norm...  or into the yard to play with
            people   ....etc.
            WE ARE ALL ALWAYS CREATIVE!!!  Your requirement of creative is not the only
            creative.  Your requirement though, is structurally abusive to us mass,
            insulting, dismissive, disagreeing -

            And THAT's exaCTly what school is!
            Norma

            ________________________________
            From: Eduardo Martinez ezedmartin@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent:
            Sun, May 29, 2011 3:09:40 PM Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

            Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education
            assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out
            what that purpose might be.  I think we need to define what we believe education

            to be and from that establish what actions might get us there. Then we need to
            figure out the best way to evaluate the results; I say evaluate and not measure
            because some of the most valuable aspects of education cannot be measured:
            social skills, compassion, creativity, community awareness, etc.  We are too
            tided into measuring results as if we are working with innate objects that will
            react to the same stimuli over and over.  Teaching is a dynamic and creative
            process and the best teachers are the more creative ones with strong social
            skills and a fearlessness that prevents them from being tied down by
            convention. 


            I would like to share a video from TED: 
            http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1067760674856532262#
            Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative by Sir Ken Robinson
            There are several points that should be heard at: 8:40 where Sir Robinson speaks

            about the hierarchy of education,
            11:15 where he speaks to the industrialization of education and how this has led

            to the belief that academic ability is what education is about,
            13:15 where he defines intelligence as being diverse, dynamic and distinct and
            how education needs to nurture these aspects in learning by addressing the many
            styles of understanding our world, kinetically, visually, aurally, logically,
            physically and intuitively,
            18:00 where he uses a metaphor for how we teach and thereby get an idea of what
            we are doing wrong.

            For those of you who might not watch, I would like to share the story of Gillian

            Lynn, the choreographer of CATS and other Broadway musicals.  Because she was a
            failure and behavior problem in school, the principal/councilor suggested to
            ....

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kevin Rivard
            Eduardo, At the risk of once again being lumped in with those that can t see the forest from the trees, so to speak, when it comes to education I would like to
            Message 5 of 24 , May 29, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Eduardo,

              At the risk of once again being lumped in with those that can't see the forest from the trees, so to speak, when it comes to education I would like to say I agree with your post.

              We need to define what we want for our kids through their education.

              We had three kids. It took my wife longer than I to want to pull our kids out of the "normal" schooling this district offers most kids. Her epiphany came at Adams Middle School when our fourth child then in 6th grade was getting A's and B's but could not read at a third grade level or do basic math. This was in a family that was active in SSC;s PTA's and had three previous kids go through the system, at that time, to the 9th grade level. When we had a conference with five of her six teachers and they just looked at us with the deer in the headlight look and asked what is the problem.

              My wife and I walked out of the meeting and immediately started steps to get our three daughters 6th, 7th and 8th graders at Adams into Independent study.

              We continued going to board meetings, SSC and PTA meeting trying to make a difference for other kids. We took care of our own, brought them all up to speed and they are now all doing well with familys of their own.

              We did not stop caring for the other kids but we finally realized that there really are few individuals willing to take the time for kids and stick to it. The administrations. . . .


              I don't know, I am going to stop because someone is just going to misconstrue what I am saying and my wife and I put 20 years into this district and most of what we got was grief and even now, from those who are currently trying to create change, just want to label us as haters.

              Good luck on trying to do good for the kids. I hope you have more stamina than my wife and I had.



              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
              From: ezedmartin@...
              Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 15:09:40 -0700
              Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?






              Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education
              assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out
              what that purpose might be. I think we need to define what we believe education
              to be and from that establish what actions might get us there. Then we need to
              figure out the best way to evaluate the results; I say evaluate and not measure
              because some of the most valuable aspects of education cannot be measured:
              social skills, compassion, creativity, community awareness, etc. We are too
              tided into measuring results as if we are working with innate objects that will
              react to the same stimuli over and over. Teaching is a dynamic and creative
              process and the best teachers are the more creative ones with strong social
              skills and a fearlessness that prevents them from being tied down by
              convention.

              I would like to share a video from TED:
              http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1067760674856532262#
              Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative by Sir Ken Robinson
              There are several points that should be heard at: 8:40 where Sir Robinson speaks
              about the hierarchy of education,
              11:15 where he speaks to the industrialization of education and how this has led
              to the belief that academic ability is what education is about,
              13:15 where he defines intelligence as being diverse, dynamic and distinct and
              how education needs to nurture these aspects in learning by addressing the many
              styles of understanding our world, kinetically, visually, aurally, logically,
              physically and intuitively,
              18:00 where he uses a metaphor for how we teach and thereby get an idea of what
              we are doing wrong.

              For those of you who might not watch, I would like to share the story of Gillian
              Lynn, the choreographer of CATS and other Broadway musicals. Because she was a
              failure and behavior problem in school, the principal/councilor suggested to
              Gillian's mother that she might have some neurological problems and might need
              to see a doctor. At the doctor's office the mother shared all the graphs and
              reports given to her by the school and told the doctor why she was concerned
              while Gillian sat there on her hands to keep from moving around. After
              listening, the doctor said he might be able to solve the problem, but that first
              he needed to speak to Gillian privately. The doctor took her into a room with a
              window, asked if she liked music, turned on the radio and excused himself. When
              he approached Gillian's mother, he told her to watch Gillian as Gillian danced
              about to the music. After watching Gillian dance for awhile, the doctor said,
              "You don't have a problem, you have a dancer! Get her out of that school and put
              her into a dance school". Gillian told Sir Robinson that when she stepped into
              the first dance class she no longer felt like an outcast and learned that there
              was a community who thought and felt like her. The school from which Gillian
              was transferred could have been any of our schools where we identify all
              students who need to move as having ADHD. This kind of identifing the strengths
              of students requires an astute staff and even more importantly the will to find
              the best avenue for each student instead of the efforts poured into pounding the
              student into the square peg we have fashioned for him/her.

              Eduardo

              http://www.eduardomartinez4richmond.net/index.html

              ________________________________
              From: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 9:34:19 AM
              Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

              We need to expand the decision-making capacity at the district level. Believe it
              or not, we just don't have enough people at the upper levels for our top down
              management style. The need to comply consumes far too much meeting time, leaving
              little for innovation and development. What about partnering with municipalities
              to adapt schools to local needs? We do it with SRO's, are other partnerships
              possible?

              WCCUSD is an unorthodox structure requiring unorthodox approaches. How about an
              advisory board for each High School service area, like a Super SSC. Our most
              persistent problems cannot be resolved at either the school or district level,
              and the ED structures seem to be more about getting paper pushed on time than
              innovating. Save all the money dropped on consultants, and give our master
              teachers special assignment to resolve the most difficult instructional issues.
              It's the only way to resolve the deep problems.

              We need a serious partnership with all parties on addressing our most at-risk
              kids. We can pass these kids from school to school, but it's counterproductive.
              Richmond PD is instituting a new approach, focusing on single families most
              likely to generate trouble. Schools have to be part of the solution.

              Our kids have been lulled into thinking that entourage member can be a career
              goal. The academies are wonderful at instilling job skills, but career exposure
              must start happening in junior high.

              With a little more effort and a lot more forethought, our schools can rapidly
              fulfill their potential. For many in our community, schools must be
              transformative to escape a bleak future. We are close, but need to do much more.

              Todd Groves

              --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, playeredu@... wrote:
              >
              > These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to
              >get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th
              >grade. Read Aloud is wonderful, but only at 5 schools and can only handle a
              >small number of early primary students that are recommended by teachers to the
              >program. A Delta Kappa Gamma chapter has been doing a Birthday Book project at
              >Grant elementary for first and second grade students, but there is no one on one
              >time provided in this program. My El Cerrito Soroptimist group will start
              >reading to the Kindergarten students next Fall at Grant...Depending on
              >Volunteers and Teacher wishes, the program can be in small groups or one on
              >one.....Both of these programs at Grant give away books to the students....on
              >their Special Day during the year....including summer birthdays in May.....I
              >think there are professional and retired groups that could be recruited, but the
              >Volunteer ID process is too costly and time consuming....At Grant we use
              >recently retired teachers so they have their TB and ID badges....Just a few
              >ideas to get members of this talk program thinking.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Ramosla <Ramosla@...>
              > To: wccusdtalk <wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:34 am
              > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
              >
              >
              >
              > I haven't given up but when you look at other school districts, ie SRV and they
              >
              > re a C-, that's not good either. What it tells me is that in those Districts
              > hat the children of color are not getting the same resources as the white
              > hildren, in that the enrichment activities after school are not the same. That
              >
              > an also be said here and/or by school here, where more monies are funneled into
              >
              > itle 1 schools even when there are Title 1 entitled children at others schools,
              >
              > hose schools are not given those funds but are sent to schools where more than

              > 5% (I think that is it) students are Title 1. So in fact those students are
              > etting even more resources than intended. Some of those schools are doing
              > eally well, which furthers my idea about funding and enrichment. Overall I
              > hink we are making strides in the right direction but we need more funding in
              > he classroom. We need a technology plan. We need well educated Teachers. We

              > eed to have current curriculum that is no
              > t cookie-cutter across the District and recognize that one-size does not fit
              > ll. We are a very diverse District and have to be able to adjust our programs

              > o fit the needs of the community that the school serves. I feel that this is
              > one through the School Site Councils, with oversight of course that they are
              > eeting the needs of all children. There is no easy answer, but you already
              > new that.
              > Laura
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > rom: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
              > o: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
              > ent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12 am
              > ubject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > id anyone read the headlines yesterday?
              >http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1
              >
              > Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
              > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
              >
              > nyone have a clue?
              > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what
              >do
              >
              > e do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
              > Todd Groves
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Eduardo Martinez
              I often agree with you, but at times I have difficulty understanding exactly where you re coming from. For instance, you say, Good teaching is a myth of the
              Message 6 of 24 , May 30, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                I often agree with you, but at times I have difficulty understanding exactly
                where you're coming from. For instance, you say, "Good teaching is a myth of
                the for-profit world." Does this imply that there is no good teaching or that
                there is no teaching? And in making such a statement, can you define what you
                mean by "teaching"? (By the way, I made no mention of good teaching... but if
                I were to do so, the definition would include authentic relationships in which
                all participants engage in understanding "reality".) I also am curious about
                your definition of CREATIVE!!! Does your definition include the thoughts that
                one has after waking up while staring at the ceiling? I sense that you are
                reading more into what I wrote than what I intended. I would appreciate knowing
                how what I wrote is "structurally abusive to us mass", how it is "insulting" and
                "dismissive". (Again, I don't see how you get that I was defining "the creative
                process". I was explaining the various modes of experiencing that needs to be
                considered " by addressing the many styles of understanding our world,
                kinetically, visually, aurally, logically, physically and intuitively". If
                there are any other modes that I missed, I would certainly like to become aware
                of them.

                Eduardo
                http://www.eduardomartinez4richmond.net/index.html




                ________________________________
                From: Norma J F Harrison <normaha@...>
                To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sun, May 29, 2011 6:29:13 PM
                Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?


                Good teaching is a myth of the for-profit world. If we can see that the places
                to be are where people want to be, not where the profit-loaded system requires,
                we can begin to grasp the huge deformity we're up against, and work to change
                it. Picture a four year old wandering into a shop in which wooden or mixed
                material objects are being made. What a bunch of teaching goes on there! And
                learning, for that's what happens when teaching is real and not this hold over
                the participants, 'teachers' and students alike.
                And picture the 10 or 20 or 50 year old 'wandering' into a research lab .... or
                onto a farm - small farm must become the norm... or into the yard to play with
                people ....etc.
                WE ARE ALL ALWAYS CREATIVE!!! Your requirement of creative is not the only
                creative. Your requirement though, is structurally abusive to us mass,
                insulting, dismissive, disagreeing -

                And THAT's exaCTly what school is!
                Norma

                ________________________________
                From: Eduardo Martinez ezedmartin@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent:

                Sun, May 29, 2011 3:09:40 PM Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education
                assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out
                what that purpose might be. I think we need to define what we believe education


                to be and from that establish what actions might get us there. Then we need to
                figure out the best way to evaluate the results; I say evaluate and not measure
                because some of the most valuable aspects of education cannot be measured:
                social skills, compassion, creativity, community awareness, etc. We are too
                tided into measuring results as if we are working with innate objects that will
                react to the same stimuli over and over. Teaching is a dynamic and creative
                process and the best teachers are the more creative ones with strong social
                skills and a fearlessness that prevents them from being tied down by
                convention.

                I would like to share a video from TED:
                http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1067760674856532262#
                Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative by Sir Ken Robinson
                There are several points that should be heard at: 8:40 where Sir Robinson speaks


                about the hierarchy of education,
                11:15 where he speaks to the industrialization of education and how this has led


                to the belief that academic ability is what education is about,
                13:15 where he defines intelligence as being diverse, dynamic and distinct and
                how education needs to nurture these aspects in learning by addressing the many
                styles of understanding our world, kinetically, visually, aurally, logically,
                physically and intuitively,
                18:00 where he uses a metaphor for how we teach and thereby get an idea of what
                we are doing wrong.

                For those of you who might not watch, I would like to share the story of Gillian


                Lynn, the choreographer of CATS and other Broadway musicals. Because she was a
                failure and behavior problem in school, the principal/councilor suggested to
                ....

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Norma J F Harrison
                They ve taken another element of our lives and commodified it, stood it out there for all to worship, teaching. Teaching is a natural behavior.  We enjoy
                Message 7 of 24 , May 30, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  They've taken another element of our lives and commodified it, stood it out
                  there for all to worship, teaching.
                  Teaching is a natural behavior.  We enjoy it.  It's a pleasure to share
                  knowledge, idea, skill, questions and proposed answers.  But those are now made
                  into the horror that school is, put forward by 'the teacher'.  While it's
                  reasonable for there to be 'the dentist', the carpenter - although that's more
                  readily modifiable - many people can pick up carpentry on the shop floor/ the
                  building site -

                  Anyway, it's wholly unreasonable for there to be 'the teacher'.  We're all
                  teachers - and students - all our lives.  That that doesn't fit into the profit
                  system - we have to be at 'work' so many hours a day in order to get paid so we
                  can but our stuff from the people who own the company - The Rich, for whom we
                  work -  that the natural part of relationships isn't teaching is reprehensible. 
                  Let's hate it! 

                  All our work - civil maintenance, housekeeping, - all of it fits supplying
                  workers to enrich our Owners.
                  We are alienated  from being able to enjoy many ways of 'working', work having
                  become a hated feature for a number of reasons.

                  But the fact is we do like to work - just not under these conditions.  We also
                  like to play - and don't get enough opportunity to enjoy that.

                  “a schoolmaster is a productive labourer when, in addition to belabouring the
                  heads of his scholars, he works like a horse to enrich the school proprietor.
                  That the latter has laid out his capital in a teaching factory, instead of in a
                  sausage factory, does not alter the relation.” Marx

                  so?....    Norma

                  ________________________________
                  From: Eduardo Martinez ezedmartin@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                  Mon, May 30, 2011 4:41:42 PM Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                  I often agree with you, but at times I have difficulty understanding exactly
                  where you're coming from.  For instance, you say, "Good teaching is a myth of
                  the for-profit world."  Does this imply that there is no good teaching or that
                  there is no teaching?  And in making such a statement, can you define what you
                  mean by "teaching"?  (By the way, I made no mention of good teaching...  but if
                  I were to do so, the definition would include authentic relationships in which
                  all participants engage in understanding "reality".)  I also am curious about
                  your definition of CREATIVE!!!  Does your definition include the thoughts that
                  one has after waking up while staring at the ceiling?  I sense that you are
                  reading more into what I wrote than what I intended.  I would appreciate knowing

                  how what I wrote is "structurally abusive to us mass", how it is "insulting" and

                  "dismissive". (Again, I don't see how you get that I was defining "the creative
                  process".  I was explaining the various modes of experiencing that needs to be
                  considered " by addressing the many styles of understanding our world,
                  kinetically, visually, aurally, logically, physically and intuitively".  If
                  there are any other modes that I missed, I would certainly like to become aware
                  of them.

                  Eduardo
                  http://www.eduardomartinez4richmond.net/index.html
                  ________________________________
                  From: Norma J F Harrison <normaha@...> To:
                  wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, May 29, 2011 6:29:13 PM Subject: Re:
                  [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?
                   
                  Good teaching is a myth of the for-profit world.  If we can see that the places
                  to be are where people want to be, not where the profit-loaded system requires,
                  we can begin to grasp the huge deformity we're up against, and work to change
                  it.  Picture a four year old wandering into a shop in which wooden or mixed
                  material objects are being made.  What a bunch of teaching goes on there! And
                  learning, for that's what happens when teaching is real and not this hold over
                  the participants, 'teachers' and students alike.
                  And picture the 10 or 20 or 50 year old 'wandering' into a research lab .... or
                  onto a farm - small farm must become the norm...  or into the yard to play with
                  people  ....etc.
                  WE ARE ALL ALWAYS CREATIVE!!!  Your requirement of creative is not the only
                  creative.  Your requirement though, is structurally abusive to us mass,
                  insulting, dismissive, disagreeing -

                  And THAT's exaCTly what school is!
                  Norma
                  ________________________________
                  From: Eduardo Martinez ezedmartin@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                  Sun, May 29, 2011 3:09:40 PM Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                  Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education
                  assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out
                  what that purpose might be.  I think we need to define what we believe education



                  to be and from that establish what actions might get us there. Then we need to
                  figure out the best way to evaluate the results; I say evaluate and not measure
                  because some of the most valuable aspects of education cannot be measured:
                  social skills, compassion, creativity, community awareness, etc.  We are too
                  tided into measuring results as if we are working with innate objects that will
                  react to the same stimuli over and over.  Teaching is a dynamic and creative
                  process and the best teachers are the more creative ones with strong social
                  skills and a fearlessness that prevents them from being tied down by
                  convention. 

                  I would like to share a video from TED: 
                  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1067760674856532262#  
                  Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative by Sir Ken Robinson
                  There are several points that should be heard at: 8:40 where Sir Robinson speaks


                  about the hierarchy of education,
                  11:15 where he speaks to the industrialization of education and how this has led

                  to the belief that academic ability is what education is about,
                  13:15 where he defines intelligence as being diverse, dynamic and distinct and
                  how education needs to nurture these aspects in learning by addressing the many
                  styles of understanding our world, kinetically, visually, aurally, logically,
                  physically and intuitively,
                  18:00 where he uses a metaphor for how we teach and thereby get an idea of what
                  we are doing wrong.

                  For those of you who might not watch, I would like to share the story of Gillian

                  Lynn, the choreographer of CATS and other Broadway musicals.  Because she was a
                  failure and behavior problem in school, the principal/councilor suggested to
                  ....

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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