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Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead? WCCUSD is!

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  • Charles Rachlis
    Am I still banned from the list? If not this will appear. Thank you Todd for posting what we already knew. The WCCUSD is not doing its job. The clown that
    Message 1 of 24 , May 24, 2011
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      Am I still banned from the list? If not this will appear.
      Thank you Todd for posting what we already knew. The WCCUSD is not doing its
      job. The clown that runs the district for 1/4 million a year is not doing his
      job. His picture show at the board meetings is a bogus show and tell and a
      waste of the tax payers dollars. Our administration has nothing to offer the
      black and brown youth in our community and we need to secure education for these
      youth.

      The only way to do it is for the parents, students and employees of the district
      to shut down the schools in an open ended strike until we secure educational
      resources for our youth equal to that which Obama provides to his kids.

      Solidarity,

      Charles Rachlis
      "The working class and the employing class have nothing in common."
      IWW founding congress opening statement


      >
      >From: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
      >To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
      >Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12:13 AM
      >Subject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
      >
      >
      >Did anyone read the headlines yesterday?
      >http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1 . Surely,
      >we can't be THAT BAD.
      >
      >
      >OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
      >anyone have a clue?
      >
      >
      >Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what do
      >we do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
      >
      >
      >Todd Groves
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • playeredu@cs.com
      These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th
      Message 2 of 24 , May 26, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th grade. Read Aloud is wonderful, but only at 5 schools and can only handle a small number of early primary students that are recommended by teachers to the program. A Delta Kappa Gamma chapter has been doing a Birthday Book project at Grant elementary for first and second grade students, but there is no one on one time provided in this program. My El Cerrito Soroptimist group will start reading to the Kindergarten students next Fall at Grant...Depending on Volunteers and Teacher wishes, the program can be in small groups or one on one.....Both of these programs at Grant give away books to the students....on their Special Day during the year....including summer birthdays in May.....I think there are professional and retired groups that could be recruited, but the Volunteer ID process is too costly and time consuming....At Grant we use recently retired teachers so they have their TB and ID badges....Just a few ideas to get members of this talk program thinking.






        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ramosla <Ramosla@...>
        To: wccusdtalk <wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:34 am
        Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?



        I haven't given up but when you look at other school districts, ie SRV and they
        re a C-, that's not good either. What it tells me is that in those Districts
        hat the children of color are not getting the same resources as the white
        hildren, in that the enrichment activities after school are not the same. That
        an also be said here and/or by school here, where more monies are funneled into
        itle 1 schools even when there are Title 1 entitled children at others schools,
        hose schools are not given those funds but are sent to schools where more than
        5% (I think that is it) students are Title 1. So in fact those students are
        etting even more resources than intended. Some of those schools are doing
        eally well, which furthers my idea about funding and enrichment. Overall I
        hink we are making strides in the right direction but we need more funding in
        he classroom. We need a technology plan. We need well educated Teachers. We
        eed to have current curriculum that is no
        t cookie-cutter across the District and recognize that one-size does not fit
        ll. We are a very diverse District and have to be able to adjust our programs
        o fit the needs of the community that the school serves. I feel that this is
        one through the School Site Councils, with oversight of course that they are
        eeting the needs of all children. There is no easy answer, but you already
        new that.
        Laura




        -----Original Message-----
        rom: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
        o: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
        ent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12 am
        ubject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?




        id anyone read the headlines yesterday? http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1
        Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
        OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
        nyone have a clue?
        Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what do
        e do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
        Todd Groves






        Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------
        Yahoo! Groups Links
        Individual Email | Traditional
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Todd Groves
        The WriterCoach Connection project at ECHS and perhaps Portola this Fall will need scores of new coaches. We want to give every 9th Grade student personal
        Message 3 of 24 , May 26, 2011
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          The WriterCoach Connection project at ECHS and perhaps Portola this Fall will need scores of new coaches. We want to give every 9th Grade student personal guidance through the writing process. By establishing personal connections with a supportive adult, students will know the community supports their learning. You can sign-up by registering here http://www.writercoachconnection.org .

          We need to make volunteering much easier while preserving student safety. Can we use local police departments to do the background checks? Would Kaiser consider covering TB clearances? Can the board promote volunteering in our growing numbers of projects?

          The board and upper leadership can empanel a WCCUSD volunteer commission to drive the issue. We need this now to meet the need this Fall.

          Todd Groves

          --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, playeredu@... wrote:
          >
          > These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th grade. Read Aloud is wonderful, but only at 5 schools and can only handle a small number of early primary students that are recommended by teachers to the program. A Delta Kappa Gamma chapter has been doing a Birthday Book project at Grant elementary for first and second grade students, but there is no one on one time provided in this program. My El Cerrito Soroptimist group will start reading to the Kindergarten students next Fall at Grant...Depending on Volunteers and Teacher wishes, the program can be in small groups or one on one.....Both of these programs at Grant give away books to the students....on their Special Day during the year....including summer birthdays in May.....I think there are professional and retired groups that could be recruited, but the Volunteer ID process is too costly and time consuming....At Grant we use recently retired teachers so they have their TB and ID badges....Just a few ideas to get members of this talk program thinking.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Ramosla <Ramosla@...>
          > To: wccusdtalk <wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:34 am
          > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
          >
          >
          >
          > I haven't given up but when you look at other school districts, ie SRV and they
          > re a C-, that's not good either. What it tells me is that in those Districts
          > hat the children of color are not getting the same resources as the white
          > hildren, in that the enrichment activities after school are not the same. That
          > an also be said here and/or by school here, where more monies are funneled into
          > itle 1 schools even when there are Title 1 entitled children at others schools,
          > hose schools are not given those funds but are sent to schools where more than
          > 5% (I think that is it) students are Title 1. So in fact those students are
          > etting even more resources than intended. Some of those schools are doing
          > eally well, which furthers my idea about funding and enrichment. Overall I
          > hink we are making strides in the right direction but we need more funding in
          > he classroom. We need a technology plan. We need well educated Teachers. We
          > eed to have current curriculum that is no
          > t cookie-cutter across the District and recognize that one-size does not fit
          > ll. We are a very diverse District and have to be able to adjust our programs
          > o fit the needs of the community that the school serves. I feel that this is
          > one through the School Site Councils, with oversight of course that they are
          > eeting the needs of all children. There is no easy answer, but you already
          > new that.
          > Laura
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > rom: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
          > o: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
          > ent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12 am
          > ubject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > id anyone read the headlines yesterday? http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1
          > Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
          > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
          > nyone have a clue?
          > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what do
          > e do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
          > Todd Groves
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > Individual Email | Traditional
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Norma J F Harrison
          While well-off to Rich children are (I only suspect) getting better services than poor/er children, the situation is that with few exceptions no one is being
          Message 4 of 24 , May 26, 2011
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            While well-off to Rich children are (I only suspect) getting better services
            than poor/er children, the situation is that with few exceptions no one is being
            well served by school. The opposite, in fact.
            Yes, it's been a problem to be sure that school become what it started out to
            be, a tool to ready workers to slave for our Owners.  There had been a bit of a
            glitch for a while, with white children, Jewish, for one, or rich - another
            group, Catholics in Catholic school, getting a bit better training than the
            rest.  But that all got equalized when Black children became more a part of the
            student population.  That was really frightening for our Owners. 

            Struggles for justice depend on community, usually the actual source of
            knowledge, study, information. If that were to expand by including more and more
            people/communities, students, it'd be a serious problem for those bosses -
            owners.  So school went from being an intolerable enclosure of students,
            offering a rare good experience, to an increasingly boring, stifling oppression.
            Teachers have been being blamed for that.
            You know all the reasons that's not why.
            School horror is not going to be permitted to do any but get even worse.

            Norma

            ________________________________
            From: Todd Groves tag1022@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu,
            May 26, 2011 4:16:55 PM Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

            The WriterCoach Connection project at ECHS and perhaps Portola this Fall will
            need scores of new coaches. We want to give every 9th Grade student personal
            guidance through the writing process. By establishing personal connections with
            a supportive adult, students will know the community supports their learning.
            You can sign-up by registering here http://www.writercoachconnection.org .

            We need to make volunteering much easier while preserving student safety. Can we
            use local police departments to do the background checks? Would Kaiser consider
            covering TB clearances? Can the board promote volunteering in our growing
            numbers of projects?

            The board and upper leadership can empanel a WCCUSD volunteer commission to
            drive the issue. We need this now to meet the need this Fall.


            Todd Groves

            --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, playeredu@... wrote:
            >
            > These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to
            >get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th
            >grade.  Read Aloud is wonderful, but only at 5 schools and can only handle a
            >small number of early primary students that are recommended by teachers to the
            >program.  A Delta Kappa Gamma chapter has been doing a Birthday Book project at
            >Grant elementary for first and second grade students, but there is no one on one
            >time provided in this program.  My El Cerrito Soroptimist group will start
            >reading to the Kindergarten students next Fall at Grant...Depending on
            >Volunteers and Teacher wishes, the program can be in small groups or one on
            >one.....Both of these programs at Grant give away books to the students....on
            >their Special Day during the year....including summer birthdays in May.....I
            >think there are professional and retired groups that could be recruited, but the
            >Volunteer ID process is too costly and time consuming....At Grant we use
            >recently retired teachers so they have their TB and ID badges....Just a few
            >ideas to get members of this talk program thinking.
            > > > > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Ramosla <Ramosla@...>
            > To: wccusdtalk <wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:34 am
            > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
            > >
            > I haven't given up but when you look at other school districts, ie SRV and they
            >
            > re a C-, that's not good either.  What it tells me is that in those Districts
            > hat the children of color are not getting the same resources as the white
            > hildren, in that the enrichment activities after school are not the same.  That
            >
            > an also be said here and/or by school here, where more monies are funneled into
            >
            > itle 1 schools even when there are Title 1 entitled children at others schools,
            >
            > hose schools are not given those funds but are sent to schools where more than

            > 5% (I think that is it) students are Title 1.  So in fact those students are
            > etting even more resources than intended.  Some of those schools are doing
            > eally well, which furthers my idea about funding and enrichment.  Overall I
            > hink we are making strides in the right direction but we need more funding in
            > he classroom.  We need a technology plan.  We need well educated Teachers.  We

            > eed to have current curriculum that is no
            > t cookie-cutter across the District and recognize that one-size does not fit
            > ll.  We are a very diverse District and have to be able to adjust our programs

            > o fit the needs of the community that the school serves.  I feel that this is
            > one through the School Site Councils, with oversight of course that they are
            > eeting the needs of all children.  There is no easy answer, but you already
            > new that.
            > Laura> 
            > -----Original Message-----
            > rom: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
            > o: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
            > ent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12 am
            > ubject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?>                 
            > id anyone read the headlines yesterday?
            >http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1
            >
            >  Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
            > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
            >
            > nyone have a clue?
            > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what
            >do
            >
            > e do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
            > Todd Groves

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Norma J F Harrison
            You get more and more horrid - Children are people! Children think!!!! When you say teach anyone to think you re just saying, make a person toe the line set by
            Message 5 of 24 , May 27, 2011
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              You get more and more horrid -
              Children are people! Children think!!!!
              When you say teach anyone to think you're just saying, make a person toe the
              line set by you, or the state or such.
              It is so wrong !!!!  to say teach anyone to think!  And 'teaching to read' would
              be just as much part of life as learning to talk, left to our own living, left
              to just get along.
              Anti-human need and desire - our Owners' control of our lives -  gets in the way
              of just living.  So these institutions can come in and rob us of our lives,
              taking over what would otherwise just be what we do.
              A big project is made of learning to read; creates jobs, creates authority,
              strata of control.
              That you can't see that school is not education is our Owners' success at mind
              control.
              Norma

              ________________________________


              You do not need new solutions. The solution is in the past. Education is not a
              magical, mystical, elusive idea. If we could send a man to the moon with little
              more than a slide rule and and a dream, we can teach third graders their times
              tables and how to read Dick and Jane books. One problem with education is we
              adults like to make it complicated, some to keep their jobs others to become
              consultants and have perpetual income.
              If you teach a child to think and read you have created a lifelong learner. If
              you tell a child they can't think or read or do not give them the opportunity
              you have created a life long dependent, just the way the powers to be want it,
              so they have perpetual power. Think about it if you still can.

              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com   From: tag1022@...  Date: Thu, 26 May 2011
              03:35:43 +0000 Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

              The report had us as the very last of California's 146 large districts on
              multiple measures. We can discount test taking, but many of our kids have
              fundamental deficiencies in math and writing, both of which we should agree
              constitute "real education."


              If not in an academy, many of our kids come out without skills. Hopefully,
              community colleges and trade schools will patch them up, but our kids are in big
              trouble. The kids currently in high school were the first raised entirely in
              test crazy schools, and the first surrounded by distracting technology.


              Many of us are doing all we can to spark interest in these young minds. How do
              we motivate kids to attend to studies? Do we raise the bar on expectations? If
              we raise the bar, will that only cause them to fall farther, ala Algebra for all
              8th grade students.

              If not the tests, how do we assess to see what kids know? How can we achieve
              rigor at the individual student level. Extend the school year? Afterschool and
              Saturday school for kids falling behind?


              The report, if only marginally true, speaks to a grave condition. In middle and
              high school, students seem to lack a basic motivation. We need to find new
              solutions now.

              Todd Groves

              --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Eduardo Martinez <ezedmartin@...> wrote:
              >
              > A better conversation would be about the meaning of education and how "real
              > education" would impact the community. Right now education seems to be on the
              > retention of facts and test taking skills, both important, but far from what I

              > would consider a measurement of education.
              >
              > Eduardo
              From: Kevin Rivard kfrivard@...  To: h h
              wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, May 26, 2011 3:57:08 AM Subject: RE:
              [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Todd Groves
              We need to expand the decision-making capacity at the district level. Believe it or not, we just don t have enough people at the upper levels for our top down
              Message 6 of 24 , May 27, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                We need to expand the decision-making capacity at the district level. Believe it or not, we just don't have enough people at the upper levels for our top down management style. The need to comply consumes far too much meeting time, leaving little for innovation and development. What about partnering with municipalities to adapt schools to local needs? We do it with SRO's, are other partnerships possible?

                WCCUSD is an unorthodox structure requiring unorthodox approaches. How about an advisory board for each High School service area, like a Super SSC. Our most persistent problems cannot be resolved at either the school or district level, and the ED structures seem to be more about getting paper pushed on time than innovating. Save all the money dropped on consultants, and give our master teachers special assignment to resolve the most difficult instructional issues. It's the only way to resolve the deep problems.

                We need a serious partnership with all parties on addressing our most at-risk kids. We can pass these kids from school to school, but it's counterproductive. Richmond PD is instituting a new approach, focusing on single families most likely to generate trouble. Schools have to be part of the solution.

                Our kids have been lulled into thinking that entourage member can be a career goal. The academies are wonderful at instilling job skills, but career exposure must start happening in junior high.

                With a little more effort and a lot more forethought, our schools can rapidly fulfill their potential. For many in our community, schools must be transformative to escape a bleak future. We are close, but need to do much more.

                Todd Groves


                --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, playeredu@... wrote:
                >
                > These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th grade. Read Aloud is wonderful, but only at 5 schools and can only handle a small number of early primary students that are recommended by teachers to the program. A Delta Kappa Gamma chapter has been doing a Birthday Book project at Grant elementary for first and second grade students, but there is no one on one time provided in this program. My El Cerrito Soroptimist group will start reading to the Kindergarten students next Fall at Grant...Depending on Volunteers and Teacher wishes, the program can be in small groups or one on one.....Both of these programs at Grant give away books to the students....on their Special Day during the year....including summer birthdays in May.....I think there are professional and retired groups that could be recruited, but the Volunteer ID process is too costly and time consuming....At Grant we use recently retired teachers so they have their TB and ID badges....Just a few ideas to get members of this talk program thinking.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Ramosla <Ramosla@...>
                > To: wccusdtalk <wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:34 am
                > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                >
                >
                >
                > I haven't given up but when you look at other school districts, ie SRV and they
                > re a C-, that's not good either. What it tells me is that in those Districts
                > hat the children of color are not getting the same resources as the white
                > hildren, in that the enrichment activities after school are not the same. That
                > an also be said here and/or by school here, where more monies are funneled into
                > itle 1 schools even when there are Title 1 entitled children at others schools,
                > hose schools are not given those funds but are sent to schools where more than
                > 5% (I think that is it) students are Title 1. So in fact those students are
                > etting even more resources than intended. Some of those schools are doing
                > eally well, which furthers my idea about funding and enrichment. Overall I
                > hink we are making strides in the right direction but we need more funding in
                > he classroom. We need a technology plan. We need well educated Teachers. We
                > eed to have current curriculum that is no
                > t cookie-cutter across the District and recognize that one-size does not fit
                > ll. We are a very diverse District and have to be able to adjust our programs
                > o fit the needs of the community that the school serves. I feel that this is
                > one through the School Site Councils, with oversight of course that they are
                > eeting the needs of all children. There is no easy answer, but you already
                > new that.
                > Laura
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > rom: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                > o: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                > ent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12 am
                > ubject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > id anyone read the headlines yesterday? http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1
                > Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
                > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
                > nyone have a clue?
                > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what do
                > e do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
                > Todd Groves
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > Individual Email | Traditional
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Norma J F Harrison
                children, students. Nicer ways to talk about our people in school.  diminishes them.  like ladies . Norma.... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                Message 7 of 24 , May 27, 2011
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                  children, students. Nicer ways to talk about our people in school.  diminishes
                  them.  like 'ladies'.
                  Norma....

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Eduardo Martinez
                  Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out what
                  Message 8 of 24 , May 29, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education
                    assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out
                    what that purpose might be. I think we need to define what we believe education
                    to be and from that establish what actions might get us there. Then we need to
                    figure out the best way to evaluate the results; I say evaluate and not measure
                    because some of the most valuable aspects of education cannot be measured:
                    social skills, compassion, creativity, community awareness, etc. We are too
                    tided into measuring results as if we are working with innate objects that will
                    react to the same stimuli over and over. Teaching is a dynamic and creative
                    process and the best teachers are the more creative ones with strong social
                    skills and a fearlessness that prevents them from being tied down by
                    convention.


                    I would like to share a video from TED:
                    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1067760674856532262#
                    Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative by Sir Ken Robinson
                    There are several points that should be heard at: 8:40 where Sir Robinson speaks
                    about the hierarchy of education,
                    11:15 where he speaks to the industrialization of education and how this has led
                    to the belief that academic ability is what education is about,
                    13:15 where he defines intelligence as being diverse, dynamic and distinct and
                    how education needs to nurture these aspects in learning by addressing the many
                    styles of understanding our world, kinetically, visually, aurally, logically,
                    physically and intuitively,
                    18:00 where he uses a metaphor for how we teach and thereby get an idea of what
                    we are doing wrong.

                    For those of you who might not watch, I would like to share the story of Gillian
                    Lynn, the choreographer of CATS and other Broadway musicals. Because she was a
                    failure and behavior problem in school, the principal/councilor suggested to
                    Gillian's mother that she might have some neurological problems and might need
                    to see a doctor. At the doctor's office the mother shared all the graphs and
                    reports given to her by the school and told the doctor why she was concerned
                    while Gillian sat there on her hands to keep from moving around. After
                    listening, the doctor said he might be able to solve the problem, but that first
                    he needed to speak to Gillian privately. The doctor took her into a room with a
                    window, asked if she liked music, turned on the radio and excused himself. When
                    he approached Gillian's mother, he told her to watch Gillian as Gillian danced
                    about to the music. After watching Gillian dance for awhile, the doctor said,
                    "You don't have a problem, you have a dancer! Get her out of that school and put
                    her into a dance school". Gillian told Sir Robinson that when she stepped into
                    the first dance class she no longer felt like an outcast and learned that there
                    was a community who thought and felt like her. The school from which Gillian
                    was transferred could have been any of our schools where we identify all
                    students who need to move as having ADHD. This kind of identifing the strengths
                    of students requires an astute staff and even more importantly the will to find
                    the best avenue for each student instead of the efforts poured into pounding the
                    student into the square peg we have fashioned for him/her.

                    Eduardo

                    http://www.eduardomartinez4richmond.net/index.html




                    ________________________________
                    From: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                    To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 9:34:19 AM
                    Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?


                    We need to expand the decision-making capacity at the district level. Believe it
                    or not, we just don't have enough people at the upper levels for our top down
                    management style. The need to comply consumes far too much meeting time, leaving
                    little for innovation and development. What about partnering with municipalities
                    to adapt schools to local needs? We do it with SRO's, are other partnerships
                    possible?

                    WCCUSD is an unorthodox structure requiring unorthodox approaches. How about an
                    advisory board for each High School service area, like a Super SSC. Our most
                    persistent problems cannot be resolved at either the school or district level,
                    and the ED structures seem to be more about getting paper pushed on time than
                    innovating. Save all the money dropped on consultants, and give our master
                    teachers special assignment to resolve the most difficult instructional issues.
                    It's the only way to resolve the deep problems.

                    We need a serious partnership with all parties on addressing our most at-risk
                    kids. We can pass these kids from school to school, but it's counterproductive.
                    Richmond PD is instituting a new approach, focusing on single families most
                    likely to generate trouble. Schools have to be part of the solution.


                    Our kids have been lulled into thinking that entourage member can be a career
                    goal. The academies are wonderful at instilling job skills, but career exposure
                    must start happening in junior high.


                    With a little more effort and a lot more forethought, our schools can rapidly
                    fulfill their potential. For many in our community, schools must be
                    transformative to escape a bleak future. We are close, but need to do much more.

                    Todd Groves

                    --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, playeredu@... wrote:
                    >
                    > These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to
                    >get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th
                    >grade. Read Aloud is wonderful, but only at 5 schools and can only handle a
                    >small number of early primary students that are recommended by teachers to the
                    >program. A Delta Kappa Gamma chapter has been doing a Birthday Book project at
                    >Grant elementary for first and second grade students, but there is no one on one
                    >time provided in this program. My El Cerrito Soroptimist group will start
                    >reading to the Kindergarten students next Fall at Grant...Depending on
                    >Volunteers and Teacher wishes, the program can be in small groups or one on
                    >one.....Both of these programs at Grant give away books to the students....on
                    >their Special Day during the year....including summer birthdays in May.....I
                    >think there are professional and retired groups that could be recruited, but the
                    >Volunteer ID process is too costly and time consuming....At Grant we use
                    >recently retired teachers so they have their TB and ID badges....Just a few
                    >ideas to get members of this talk program thinking.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Ramosla <Ramosla@...>
                    > To: wccusdtalk <wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:34 am
                    > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I haven't given up but when you look at other school districts, ie SRV and they
                    >
                    > re a C-, that's not good either. What it tells me is that in those Districts
                    > hat the children of color are not getting the same resources as the white
                    > hildren, in that the enrichment activities after school are not the same. That
                    >
                    > an also be said here and/or by school here, where more monies are funneled into
                    >
                    > itle 1 schools even when there are Title 1 entitled children at others schools,
                    >
                    > hose schools are not given those funds but are sent to schools where more than

                    > 5% (I think that is it) students are Title 1. So in fact those students are
                    > etting even more resources than intended. Some of those schools are doing
                    > eally well, which furthers my idea about funding and enrichment. Overall I
                    > hink we are making strides in the right direction but we need more funding in
                    > he classroom. We need a technology plan. We need well educated Teachers. We

                    > eed to have current curriculum that is no
                    > t cookie-cutter across the District and recognize that one-size does not fit
                    > ll. We are a very diverse District and have to be able to adjust our programs

                    > o fit the needs of the community that the school serves. I feel that this is
                    > one through the School Site Councils, with oversight of course that they are
                    > eeting the needs of all children. There is no easy answer, but you already
                    > new that.
                    > Laura
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > rom: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                    > o: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                    > ent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12 am
                    > ubject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > id anyone read the headlines yesterday?
                    >http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1
                    >
                    > Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
                    > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
                    >
                    > nyone have a clue?
                    > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what
                    >do
                    >
                    > e do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
                    > Todd Groves
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > Individual Email | Traditional
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Norma J F Harrison
                    Good teaching is a myth of the for-profit world.  If we can see that the places to be are where people want to be, not where the profit-loaded system
                    Message 9 of 24 , May 29, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Good teaching is a myth of the for-profit world.  If we can see that the places
                      to be are where people want to be, not where the profit-loaded system requires,
                      we can begin to grasp the huge deformity we're up against, and work to change
                      it.  Picture a four year old wandering into a shop in which wooden or mixed
                      material objects are being made.  What a bunch of teaching goes on there! And
                      learning, for that's what happens when teaching is real and not this hold over
                      the participants, 'teachers' and students alike.
                      And picture the 10 or 20 or 50 year old 'wandering' into a research lab .... or
                      onto a farm - small farm must become the norm...  or into the yard to play with
                      people   ....etc.
                      WE ARE ALL ALWAYS CREATIVE!!!  Your requirement of creative is not the only
                      creative.  Your requirement though, is structurally abusive to us mass,
                      insulting, dismissive, disagreeing -

                      And THAT's exaCTly what school is!
                      Norma

                      ________________________________
                      From: Eduardo Martinez ezedmartin@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                      Sun, May 29, 2011 3:09:40 PM Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                      Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education
                      assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out
                      what that purpose might be.  I think we need to define what we believe education

                      to be and from that establish what actions might get us there. Then we need to
                      figure out the best way to evaluate the results; I say evaluate and not measure
                      because some of the most valuable aspects of education cannot be measured:
                      social skills, compassion, creativity, community awareness, etc.  We are too
                      tided into measuring results as if we are working with innate objects that will
                      react to the same stimuli over and over.  Teaching is a dynamic and creative
                      process and the best teachers are the more creative ones with strong social
                      skills and a fearlessness that prevents them from being tied down by
                      convention. 


                      I would like to share a video from TED: 
                      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1067760674856532262#
                      Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative by Sir Ken Robinson
                      There are several points that should be heard at: 8:40 where Sir Robinson speaks

                      about the hierarchy of education,
                      11:15 where he speaks to the industrialization of education and how this has led

                      to the belief that academic ability is what education is about,
                      13:15 where he defines intelligence as being diverse, dynamic and distinct and
                      how education needs to nurture these aspects in learning by addressing the many
                      styles of understanding our world, kinetically, visually, aurally, logically,
                      physically and intuitively,
                      18:00 where he uses a metaphor for how we teach and thereby get an idea of what
                      we are doing wrong.

                      For those of you who might not watch, I would like to share the story of Gillian

                      Lynn, the choreographer of CATS and other Broadway musicals.  Because she was a
                      failure and behavior problem in school, the principal/councilor suggested to
                      ....

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Kevin Rivard
                      Eduardo, At the risk of once again being lumped in with those that can t see the forest from the trees, so to speak, when it comes to education I would like to
                      Message 10 of 24 , May 29, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Eduardo,

                        At the risk of once again being lumped in with those that can't see the forest from the trees, so to speak, when it comes to education I would like to say I agree with your post.

                        We need to define what we want for our kids through their education.

                        We had three kids. It took my wife longer than I to want to pull our kids out of the "normal" schooling this district offers most kids. Her epiphany came at Adams Middle School when our fourth child then in 6th grade was getting A's and B's but could not read at a third grade level or do basic math. This was in a family that was active in SSC;s PTA's and had three previous kids go through the system, at that time, to the 9th grade level. When we had a conference with five of her six teachers and they just looked at us with the deer in the headlight look and asked what is the problem.

                        My wife and I walked out of the meeting and immediately started steps to get our three daughters 6th, 7th and 8th graders at Adams into Independent study.

                        We continued going to board meetings, SSC and PTA meeting trying to make a difference for other kids. We took care of our own, brought them all up to speed and they are now all doing well with familys of their own.

                        We did not stop caring for the other kids but we finally realized that there really are few individuals willing to take the time for kids and stick to it. The administrations. . . .


                        I don't know, I am going to stop because someone is just going to misconstrue what I am saying and my wife and I put 20 years into this district and most of what we got was grief and even now, from those who are currently trying to create change, just want to label us as haters.

                        Good luck on trying to do good for the kids. I hope you have more stamina than my wife and I had.



                        To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                        From: ezedmartin@...
                        Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 15:09:40 -0700
                        Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?






                        Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education
                        assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out
                        what that purpose might be. I think we need to define what we believe education
                        to be and from that establish what actions might get us there. Then we need to
                        figure out the best way to evaluate the results; I say evaluate and not measure
                        because some of the most valuable aspects of education cannot be measured:
                        social skills, compassion, creativity, community awareness, etc. We are too
                        tided into measuring results as if we are working with innate objects that will
                        react to the same stimuli over and over. Teaching is a dynamic and creative
                        process and the best teachers are the more creative ones with strong social
                        skills and a fearlessness that prevents them from being tied down by
                        convention.

                        I would like to share a video from TED:
                        http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1067760674856532262#
                        Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative by Sir Ken Robinson
                        There are several points that should be heard at: 8:40 where Sir Robinson speaks
                        about the hierarchy of education,
                        11:15 where he speaks to the industrialization of education and how this has led
                        to the belief that academic ability is what education is about,
                        13:15 where he defines intelligence as being diverse, dynamic and distinct and
                        how education needs to nurture these aspects in learning by addressing the many
                        styles of understanding our world, kinetically, visually, aurally, logically,
                        physically and intuitively,
                        18:00 where he uses a metaphor for how we teach and thereby get an idea of what
                        we are doing wrong.

                        For those of you who might not watch, I would like to share the story of Gillian
                        Lynn, the choreographer of CATS and other Broadway musicals. Because she was a
                        failure and behavior problem in school, the principal/councilor suggested to
                        Gillian's mother that she might have some neurological problems and might need
                        to see a doctor. At the doctor's office the mother shared all the graphs and
                        reports given to her by the school and told the doctor why she was concerned
                        while Gillian sat there on her hands to keep from moving around. After
                        listening, the doctor said he might be able to solve the problem, but that first
                        he needed to speak to Gillian privately. The doctor took her into a room with a
                        window, asked if she liked music, turned on the radio and excused himself. When
                        he approached Gillian's mother, he told her to watch Gillian as Gillian danced
                        about to the music. After watching Gillian dance for awhile, the doctor said,
                        "You don't have a problem, you have a dancer! Get her out of that school and put
                        her into a dance school". Gillian told Sir Robinson that when she stepped into
                        the first dance class she no longer felt like an outcast and learned that there
                        was a community who thought and felt like her. The school from which Gillian
                        was transferred could have been any of our schools where we identify all
                        students who need to move as having ADHD. This kind of identifing the strengths
                        of students requires an astute staff and even more importantly the will to find
                        the best avenue for each student instead of the efforts poured into pounding the
                        student into the square peg we have fashioned for him/her.

                        Eduardo

                        http://www.eduardomartinez4richmond.net/index.html

                        ________________________________
                        From: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                        To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 9:34:19 AM
                        Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                        We need to expand the decision-making capacity at the district level. Believe it
                        or not, we just don't have enough people at the upper levels for our top down
                        management style. The need to comply consumes far too much meeting time, leaving
                        little for innovation and development. What about partnering with municipalities
                        to adapt schools to local needs? We do it with SRO's, are other partnerships
                        possible?

                        WCCUSD is an unorthodox structure requiring unorthodox approaches. How about an
                        advisory board for each High School service area, like a Super SSC. Our most
                        persistent problems cannot be resolved at either the school or district level,
                        and the ED structures seem to be more about getting paper pushed on time than
                        innovating. Save all the money dropped on consultants, and give our master
                        teachers special assignment to resolve the most difficult instructional issues.
                        It's the only way to resolve the deep problems.

                        We need a serious partnership with all parties on addressing our most at-risk
                        kids. We can pass these kids from school to school, but it's counterproductive.
                        Richmond PD is instituting a new approach, focusing on single families most
                        likely to generate trouble. Schools have to be part of the solution.

                        Our kids have been lulled into thinking that entourage member can be a career
                        goal. The academies are wonderful at instilling job skills, but career exposure
                        must start happening in junior high.

                        With a little more effort and a lot more forethought, our schools can rapidly
                        fulfill their potential. For many in our community, schools must be
                        transformative to escape a bleak future. We are close, but need to do much more.

                        Todd Groves

                        --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, playeredu@... wrote:
                        >
                        > These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to
                        >get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th
                        >grade. Read Aloud is wonderful, but only at 5 schools and can only handle a
                        >small number of early primary students that are recommended by teachers to the
                        >program. A Delta Kappa Gamma chapter has been doing a Birthday Book project at
                        >Grant elementary for first and second grade students, but there is no one on one
                        >time provided in this program. My El Cerrito Soroptimist group will start
                        >reading to the Kindergarten students next Fall at Grant...Depending on
                        >Volunteers and Teacher wishes, the program can be in small groups or one on
                        >one.....Both of these programs at Grant give away books to the students....on
                        >their Special Day during the year....including summer birthdays in May.....I
                        >think there are professional and retired groups that could be recruited, but the
                        >Volunteer ID process is too costly and time consuming....At Grant we use
                        >recently retired teachers so they have their TB and ID badges....Just a few
                        >ideas to get members of this talk program thinking.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Ramosla <Ramosla@...>
                        > To: wccusdtalk <wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:34 am
                        > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I haven't given up but when you look at other school districts, ie SRV and they
                        >
                        > re a C-, that's not good either. What it tells me is that in those Districts
                        > hat the children of color are not getting the same resources as the white
                        > hildren, in that the enrichment activities after school are not the same. That
                        >
                        > an also be said here and/or by school here, where more monies are funneled into
                        >
                        > itle 1 schools even when there are Title 1 entitled children at others schools,
                        >
                        > hose schools are not given those funds but are sent to schools where more than

                        > 5% (I think that is it) students are Title 1. So in fact those students are
                        > etting even more resources than intended. Some of those schools are doing
                        > eally well, which furthers my idea about funding and enrichment. Overall I
                        > hink we are making strides in the right direction but we need more funding in
                        > he classroom. We need a technology plan. We need well educated Teachers. We

                        > eed to have current curriculum that is no
                        > t cookie-cutter across the District and recognize that one-size does not fit
                        > ll. We are a very diverse District and have to be able to adjust our programs

                        > o fit the needs of the community that the school serves. I feel that this is
                        > one through the School Site Councils, with oversight of course that they are
                        > eeting the needs of all children. There is no easy answer, but you already
                        > new that.
                        > Laura
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > rom: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                        > o: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                        > ent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12 am
                        > ubject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > id anyone read the headlines yesterday?
                        >http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1
                        >
                        > Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
                        > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
                        >
                        > nyone have a clue?
                        > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what
                        >do
                        >
                        > e do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
                        > Todd Groves
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > Individual Email | Traditional
                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Eduardo Martinez
                        I often agree with you, but at times I have difficulty understanding exactly where you re coming from. For instance, you say, Good teaching is a myth of the
                        Message 11 of 24 , May 30, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I often agree with you, but at times I have difficulty understanding exactly
                          where you're coming from. For instance, you say, "Good teaching is a myth of
                          the for-profit world." Does this imply that there is no good teaching or that
                          there is no teaching? And in making such a statement, can you define what you
                          mean by "teaching"? (By the way, I made no mention of good teaching... but if
                          I were to do so, the definition would include authentic relationships in which
                          all participants engage in understanding "reality".) I also am curious about
                          your definition of CREATIVE!!! Does your definition include the thoughts that
                          one has after waking up while staring at the ceiling? I sense that you are
                          reading more into what I wrote than what I intended. I would appreciate knowing
                          how what I wrote is "structurally abusive to us mass", how it is "insulting" and
                          "dismissive". (Again, I don't see how you get that I was defining "the creative
                          process". I was explaining the various modes of experiencing that needs to be
                          considered " by addressing the many styles of understanding our world,
                          kinetically, visually, aurally, logically, physically and intuitively". If
                          there are any other modes that I missed, I would certainly like to become aware
                          of them.

                          Eduardo
                          http://www.eduardomartinez4richmond.net/index.html




                          ________________________________
                          From: Norma J F Harrison <normaha@...>
                          To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sun, May 29, 2011 6:29:13 PM
                          Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?


                          Good teaching is a myth of the for-profit world. If we can see that the places
                          to be are where people want to be, not where the profit-loaded system requires,
                          we can begin to grasp the huge deformity we're up against, and work to change
                          it. Picture a four year old wandering into a shop in which wooden or mixed
                          material objects are being made. What a bunch of teaching goes on there! And
                          learning, for that's what happens when teaching is real and not this hold over
                          the participants, 'teachers' and students alike.
                          And picture the 10 or 20 or 50 year old 'wandering' into a research lab .... or
                          onto a farm - small farm must become the norm... or into the yard to play with
                          people ....etc.
                          WE ARE ALL ALWAYS CREATIVE!!! Your requirement of creative is not the only
                          creative. Your requirement though, is structurally abusive to us mass,
                          insulting, dismissive, disagreeing -

                          And THAT's exaCTly what school is!
                          Norma

                          ________________________________
                          From: Eduardo Martinez ezedmartin@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent:

                          Sun, May 29, 2011 3:09:40 PM Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                          Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education
                          assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out
                          what that purpose might be. I think we need to define what we believe education


                          to be and from that establish what actions might get us there. Then we need to
                          figure out the best way to evaluate the results; I say evaluate and not measure
                          because some of the most valuable aspects of education cannot be measured:
                          social skills, compassion, creativity, community awareness, etc. We are too
                          tided into measuring results as if we are working with innate objects that will
                          react to the same stimuli over and over. Teaching is a dynamic and creative
                          process and the best teachers are the more creative ones with strong social
                          skills and a fearlessness that prevents them from being tied down by
                          convention.

                          I would like to share a video from TED:
                          http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1067760674856532262#
                          Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative by Sir Ken Robinson
                          There are several points that should be heard at: 8:40 where Sir Robinson speaks


                          about the hierarchy of education,
                          11:15 where he speaks to the industrialization of education and how this has led


                          to the belief that academic ability is what education is about,
                          13:15 where he defines intelligence as being diverse, dynamic and distinct and
                          how education needs to nurture these aspects in learning by addressing the many
                          styles of understanding our world, kinetically, visually, aurally, logically,
                          physically and intuitively,
                          18:00 where he uses a metaphor for how we teach and thereby get an idea of what
                          we are doing wrong.

                          For those of you who might not watch, I would like to share the story of Gillian


                          Lynn, the choreographer of CATS and other Broadway musicals. Because she was a
                          failure and behavior problem in school, the principal/councilor suggested to
                          ....

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Norma J F Harrison
                          They ve taken another element of our lives and commodified it, stood it out there for all to worship, teaching. Teaching is a natural behavior.  We enjoy
                          Message 12 of 24 , May 30, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            They've taken another element of our lives and commodified it, stood it out
                            there for all to worship, teaching.
                            Teaching is a natural behavior.  We enjoy it.  It's a pleasure to share
                            knowledge, idea, skill, questions and proposed answers.  But those are now made
                            into the horror that school is, put forward by 'the teacher'.  While it's
                            reasonable for there to be 'the dentist', the carpenter - although that's more
                            readily modifiable - many people can pick up carpentry on the shop floor/ the
                            building site -

                            Anyway, it's wholly unreasonable for there to be 'the teacher'.  We're all
                            teachers - and students - all our lives.  That that doesn't fit into the profit
                            system - we have to be at 'work' so many hours a day in order to get paid so we
                            can but our stuff from the people who own the company - The Rich, for whom we
                            work -  that the natural part of relationships isn't teaching is reprehensible. 
                            Let's hate it! 

                            All our work - civil maintenance, housekeeping, - all of it fits supplying
                            workers to enrich our Owners.
                            We are alienated  from being able to enjoy many ways of 'working', work having
                            become a hated feature for a number of reasons.

                            But the fact is we do like to work - just not under these conditions.  We also
                            like to play - and don't get enough opportunity to enjoy that.

                            “a schoolmaster is a productive labourer when, in addition to belabouring the
                            heads of his scholars, he works like a horse to enrich the school proprietor.
                            That the latter has laid out his capital in a teaching factory, instead of in a
                            sausage factory, does not alter the relation.” Marx

                            so?....    Norma

                            ________________________________
                            From: Eduardo Martinez ezedmartin@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                            Mon, May 30, 2011 4:41:42 PM Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                            I often agree with you, but at times I have difficulty understanding exactly
                            where you're coming from.  For instance, you say, "Good teaching is a myth of
                            the for-profit world."  Does this imply that there is no good teaching or that
                            there is no teaching?  And in making such a statement, can you define what you
                            mean by "teaching"?  (By the way, I made no mention of good teaching...  but if
                            I were to do so, the definition would include authentic relationships in which
                            all participants engage in understanding "reality".)  I also am curious about
                            your definition of CREATIVE!!!  Does your definition include the thoughts that
                            one has after waking up while staring at the ceiling?  I sense that you are
                            reading more into what I wrote than what I intended.  I would appreciate knowing

                            how what I wrote is "structurally abusive to us mass", how it is "insulting" and

                            "dismissive". (Again, I don't see how you get that I was defining "the creative
                            process".  I was explaining the various modes of experiencing that needs to be
                            considered " by addressing the many styles of understanding our world,
                            kinetically, visually, aurally, logically, physically and intuitively".  If
                            there are any other modes that I missed, I would certainly like to become aware
                            of them.

                            Eduardo
                            http://www.eduardomartinez4richmond.net/index.html
                            ________________________________
                            From: Norma J F Harrison <normaha@...> To:
                            wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, May 29, 2011 6:29:13 PM Subject: Re:
                            [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?
                             
                            Good teaching is a myth of the for-profit world.  If we can see that the places
                            to be are where people want to be, not where the profit-loaded system requires,
                            we can begin to grasp the huge deformity we're up against, and work to change
                            it.  Picture a four year old wandering into a shop in which wooden or mixed
                            material objects are being made.  What a bunch of teaching goes on there! And
                            learning, for that's what happens when teaching is real and not this hold over
                            the participants, 'teachers' and students alike.
                            And picture the 10 or 20 or 50 year old 'wandering' into a research lab .... or
                            onto a farm - small farm must become the norm...  or into the yard to play with
                            people  ....etc.
                            WE ARE ALL ALWAYS CREATIVE!!!  Your requirement of creative is not the only
                            creative.  Your requirement though, is structurally abusive to us mass,
                            insulting, dismissive, disagreeing -

                            And THAT's exaCTly what school is!
                            Norma
                            ________________________________
                            From: Eduardo Martinez ezedmartin@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                            Sun, May 29, 2011 3:09:40 PM Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                            Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education
                            assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out
                            what that purpose might be.  I think we need to define what we believe education



                            to be and from that establish what actions might get us there. Then we need to
                            figure out the best way to evaluate the results; I say evaluate and not measure
                            because some of the most valuable aspects of education cannot be measured:
                            social skills, compassion, creativity, community awareness, etc.  We are too
                            tided into measuring results as if we are working with innate objects that will
                            react to the same stimuli over and over.  Teaching is a dynamic and creative
                            process and the best teachers are the more creative ones with strong social
                            skills and a fearlessness that prevents them from being tied down by
                            convention. 

                            I would like to share a video from TED: 
                            http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1067760674856532262#  
                            Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative by Sir Ken Robinson
                            There are several points that should be heard at: 8:40 where Sir Robinson speaks


                            about the hierarchy of education,
                            11:15 where he speaks to the industrialization of education and how this has led

                            to the belief that academic ability is what education is about,
                            13:15 where he defines intelligence as being diverse, dynamic and distinct and
                            how education needs to nurture these aspects in learning by addressing the many
                            styles of understanding our world, kinetically, visually, aurally, logically,
                            physically and intuitively,
                            18:00 where he uses a metaphor for how we teach and thereby get an idea of what
                            we are doing wrong.

                            For those of you who might not watch, I would like to share the story of Gillian

                            Lynn, the choreographer of CATS and other Broadway musicals.  Because she was a
                            failure and behavior problem in school, the principal/councilor suggested to
                            ....

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