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Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead? WCCUSD is!

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  • Charles Rachlis
    Am I still banned from the list? If not this will appear. Thank you Todd for posting what we already knew. The WCCUSD is not doing its job. The clown that
    Message 1 of 24 , May 24, 2011
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      Am I still banned from the list? If not this will appear.
      Thank you Todd for posting what we already knew. The WCCUSD is not doing its
      job. The clown that runs the district for 1/4 million a year is not doing his
      job. His picture show at the board meetings is a bogus show and tell and a
      waste of the tax payers dollars. Our administration has nothing to offer the
      black and brown youth in our community and we need to secure education for these
      youth.

      The only way to do it is for the parents, students and employees of the district
      to shut down the schools in an open ended strike until we secure educational
      resources for our youth equal to that which Obama provides to his kids.

      Solidarity,

      Charles Rachlis
      "The working class and the employing class have nothing in common."
      IWW founding congress opening statement


      >
      >From: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
      >To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
      >Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12:13 AM
      >Subject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
      >
      >
      >Did anyone read the headlines yesterday?
      >http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1 . Surely,
      >we can't be THAT BAD.
      >
      >
      >OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
      >anyone have a clue?
      >
      >
      >Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what do
      >we do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
      >
      >
      >Todd Groves
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Eduardo Martinez
      If what we are concerned about is whether or not our students are good test takers, then this study is something to be concerned about. It may be accurate in
      Message 2 of 24 , May 24, 2011
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        If what we are concerned about is whether or not our students are good test
        takers, then this study is something to be concerned about. It may be accurate
        in terms of data, but it has no meaning other than what API scores would reveal.
        In statistical studies, the meaning is in the questions and often the answers
        found in the data have nothing to do with what is actually going on in real
        life. Carrie Hahnel, director of policy and research at Ed Trust and a
        co-author of the study said, "If nothing else, we'd be delighted if this is a
        conversation starter." I would say that this is nothing more that a
        conversation starter.

        Eduardo




        ________________________________
        From: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
        To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 11:12:13 AM
        Subject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?


        Did anyone read the headlines yesterday?
        http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1 . Surely,
        we can't be THAT BAD.


        OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
        anyone have a clue?


        Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what do
        we do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?


        Todd Groves




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jim Cowen
        Well, in a grander, outside education view, it has lots of meaning -property values -flight of families -where state money will be directed, or not directed
        Message 3 of 24 , May 24, 2011
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          Well, in a grander, outside education view, it has lots of meaning
          -property values
          -flight of families
          -where state money will be directed, or not directed
          -etc, etc, etc
           
          So, it could be TWO conversation starters. One about the merits of tests and what they mean, and the other about the effect the test results have on a community.
           
          Jim

          --- On Tue, 5/24/11, Eduardo Martinez <ezedmartin@...> wrote:


          From: Eduardo Martinez <ezedmartin@...>
          Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
          To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 5:41 PM


           



          If what we are concerned about is whether or not our students are good test
          takers, then this study is something to be concerned about. It may be accurate
          in terms of data, but it has no meaning other than what API scores would reveal.
          In statistical studies, the meaning is in the questions and often the answers
          found in the data have nothing to do with what is actually going on in real
          life. Carrie Hahnel, director of policy and research at Ed Trust and a
          co-author of the study said, "If nothing else, we'd be delighted if this is a
          conversation starter." I would say that this is nothing more that a
          conversation starter.

          Eduardo

          ________________________________
          From: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
          To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 11:12:13 AM
          Subject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?

          Did anyone read the headlines yesterday?
          http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1 . Surely,
          we can't be THAT BAD.

          OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
          anyone have a clue?

          Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what do
          we do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?

          Todd Groves

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kevin Rivard
          What surprises me is that people are surprised at the results. When the emphasis of the elder school board member since 1992 is making pretty schools and not
          Message 4 of 24 , May 24, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            What surprises me is that people are surprised at the results.

            When the emphasis of the elder school board member since 1992 is making pretty schools and not better education and the whole community votes to spend ONE BILLION dollars on pretty schools and not better education and the community continues to allow barely literate students to cross the graduation stage and continue to allow those students to believe they have received a quality education and those students parents continue to cheer year after year as those students cross that stage what do you expect. As long as this community, this school board and this superintendent accepts failure and mediocrity and accepts both as success, education in this district, will never improve.

            Until this community and school district does what the Apollo Program did for Apollo 13 and make, Failure NOT an Option, as the standard for our students education, this community and school district will continue to fail it's students. As long as this community continues to fund failure, failure will continue.

            Kevin Rivard



            To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
            From: ezedmartin@...
            Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 17:41:14 -0700
            Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?






            If what we are concerned about is whether or not our students are good test
            takers, then this study is something to be concerned about. It may be accurate
            in terms of data, but it has no meaning other than what API scores would reveal.
            In statistical studies, the meaning is in the questions and often the answers
            found in the data have nothing to do with what is actually going on in real
            life. Carrie Hahnel, director of policy and research at Ed Trust and a
            co-author of the study said, "If nothing else, we'd be delighted if this is a
            conversation starter." I would say that this is nothing more that a
            conversation starter.

            Eduardo

            ________________________________
            From: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
            To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 11:12:13 AM
            Subject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?

            Did anyone read the headlines yesterday?
            http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1 . Surely,
            we can't be THAT BAD.

            OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
            anyone have a clue?

            Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what do
            we do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?

            Todd Groves

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Tony Sustak & Margaret G. Browne
            Eduardo, I agree. Margaret Browne From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez Sent: Tuesday, May 24,
            Message 5 of 24 , May 24, 2011
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              Eduardo,

              I agree.

              Margaret Browne



              From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez
              Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:41 PM
              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?





              If what we are concerned about is whether or not our students are good test
              takers, then this study is something to be concerned about. It may be accurate
              in terms of data, but it has no meaning other than what API scores would reveal.
              In statistical studies, the meaning is in the questions and often the answers
              found in the data have nothing to do with what is actually going on in real
              life. Carrie Hahnel, director of policy and research at Ed Trust and a
              co-author of the study said, "If nothing else, we'd be delighted if this is a
              conversation starter." I would say that this is nothing more that a
              conversation starter.

              Eduardo

              ________________________________
              From: Todd Groves <tag1022@... <mailto:tag1022%40yahoo.com> >
              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 11:12:13 AM
              Subject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?

              Did anyone read the headlines yesterday?
              http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1 . Surely,
              we can't be THAT BAD.

              OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
              anyone have a clue?

              Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what do
              we do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?

              Todd Groves

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • c slamon
              Todd, Unfortunately, I think this list is dead! It seems to me that it just contains a bunch of people who want to vent and rant, many of them parents from
              Message 6 of 24 , May 25, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Todd,
                Unfortunately, I think this list is dead! It seems to me that it just
                contains a bunch of people who want to vent and rant, many of them parents
                from decades ago still holding grudges. I am determined not to
                become bitter like them and have tried to do what I was taught as a kid; if
                you don't have anything nice (or constructive) to say, then keep it zipped!





                On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Todd Groves <tag1022@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > Did anyone read the headlines yesterday?
                > http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1 .
                > Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
                >
                > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate?
                > Does anyone have a clue?
                >
                > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does,
                > what do we do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
                >
                > Todd Groves
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Eduardo Martinez
                A better conversation would be about the meaning of education and how real education would impact the community. Right now education seems to be on the
                Message 7 of 24 , May 25, 2011
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                  A better conversation would be about the meaning of education and how "real
                  education" would impact the community. Right now education seems to be on the
                  retention of facts and test taking skills, both important, but far from what I
                  would consider a measurement of education.

                  Eduardo


                  ________________________________
                  From: Jim Cowen <jimcowen@...>
                  To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 11:26:12 PM
                  Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?


                  Well, in a grander, outside education view, it has lots of meaning
                  -property values
                  -flight of families
                  -where state money will be directed, or not directed
                  -etc, etc, etc

                  So, it could be TWO conversation starters. One about the merits of tests and
                  what they mean, and the other about the effect the test results have on a
                  community.

                  Jim

                  --- On Tue, 5/24/11, Eduardo Martinez <ezedmartin@...> wrote:

                  From: Eduardo Martinez <ezedmartin@...>
                  Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                  To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 5:41 PM



                  If what we are concerned about is whether or not our students are good test
                  takers, then this study is something to be concerned about. It may be accurate
                  in terms of data, but it has no meaning other than what API scores would reveal.

                  In statistical studies, the meaning is in the questions and often the answers
                  found in the data have nothing to do with what is actually going on in real
                  life. Carrie Hahnel, director of policy and research at Ed Trust and a
                  co-author of the study said, "If nothing else, we'd be delighted if this is a
                  conversation starter." I would say that this is nothing more that a
                  conversation starter.

                  Eduardo

                  ________________________________
                  From: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                  To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 11:12:13 AM
                  Subject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?

                  Did anyone read the headlines yesterday?
                  http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1 . Surely,
                  we can't be THAT BAD.

                  OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
                  anyone have a clue?

                  Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what do

                  we do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?

                  Todd Groves

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Norma J F Harrison
                  Yes, as the people who help create your subjugation demand, don t be angry.  Call it by all these names to discredit the fury at the unjust treatment we peons
                  Message 8 of 24 , May 25, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Yes, as the people who help create your subjugation demand, don't be angry. 
                    Call it by all these names to discredit the fury at the unjust treatment we
                    peons suffer.  Smile.  That'll work.  Better yet, pray.  That's also good for
                    nothing - except of course that by self-delusion a person feels better for doing
                    that.
                    People's constructive suggestions were rendered and not done.  There is no
                    'fixing' of school.  School is a central element in the capitalist structure,
                    creating the variously strata-ed people to provide The Rich their riches.
                    Norma

                    ________________________________
                    From: c slamon cslamon@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, May
                    25, 2011 9:24:47 AM Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?

                    Todd,
                    Unfortunately, I think this list is dead!  It seems to me that it just contains
                    a bunch of people who want to vent and rant, many of them parents
                    from decades ago still holding grudges.  I am determined not to become bitter
                    like them and have tried to do what I was taught as a kid;  if
                    you don't have anything nice (or constructive) to say, then keep it zipped!

                    On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Todd Groves <tag1022@...> wrote:>>> Did
                    anyone read the headlines yesterday?>
                    http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1  .
                    > Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
                    >
                    > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate?
                    > Does anyone have a clue?
                    >
                    > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does,
                    > what do we do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
                    >
                    > Todd Groves>> >
                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Todd Groves
                    The report had us as the very last of California s 146 large districts on multiple measures. We can discount test taking, but many of our kids have fundamental
                    Message 9 of 24 , May 25, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      The report had us as the very last of California's 146 large districts on multiple measures. We can discount test taking, but many of our kids have fundamental deficiencies in math and writing, both of which we should agree constitute "real education."

                      If not in an academy, many of our kids come out without skills. Hopefully, community colleges and trade schools will patch them up, but our kids are in big trouble. The kids currently in high school were the first raised entirely in test crazy schools, and the first surrounded by distracting technology.

                      Many of us are doing all we can to spark interest in these young minds. How do we motivate kids to attend to studies? Do we raise the bar on expectations? If we raise the bar, will that only cause them to fall farther, ala Algebra for all 8th grade students.

                      If not the tests, how do we assess to see what kids know? How can we achieve rigor at the individual student level. Extend the school year? Afterschool and Saturday school for kids falling behind?

                      The report, if only marginally true, speaks to a grave condition. In middle and high school, students seem to lack a basic motivation. We need to find new solutions now.

                      Todd Groves



                      --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Eduardo Martinez <ezedmartin@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > A better conversation would be about the meaning of education and how "real
                      > education" would impact the community. Right now education seems to be on the
                      > retention of facts and test taking skills, both important, but far from what I
                      > would consider a measurement of education.
                      >
                      > Eduardo
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Jim Cowen <jimcowen@...>
                      > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 11:26:12 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                      >
                      >
                      > Well, in a grander, outside education view, it has lots of meaning
                      > -property values
                      > -flight of families
                      > -where state money will be directed, or not directed
                      > -etc, etc, etc
                      >
                      > So, it could be TWO conversation starters. One about the merits of tests and
                      > what they mean, and the other about the effect the test results have on a
                      > community.
                      >
                      > Jim
                      >
                      > --- On Tue, 5/24/11, Eduardo Martinez <ezedmartin@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > From: Eduardo Martinez <ezedmartin@...>
                      > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                      > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 5:41 PM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > If what we are concerned about is whether or not our students are good test
                      > takers, then this study is something to be concerned about. It may be accurate
                      > in terms of data, but it has no meaning other than what API scores would reveal.
                      >
                      > In statistical studies, the meaning is in the questions and often the answers
                      > found in the data have nothing to do with what is actually going on in real
                      > life. Carrie Hahnel, director of policy and research at Ed Trust and a
                      > co-author of the study said, "If nothing else, we'd be delighted if this is a
                      > conversation starter." I would say that this is nothing more that a
                      > conversation starter.
                      >
                      > Eduardo
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                      > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 11:12:13 AM
                      > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                      >
                      > Did anyone read the headlines yesterday?
                      > http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1 . Surely,
                      > we can't be THAT BAD.
                      >
                      > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
                      > anyone have a clue?
                      >
                      > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what do
                      >
                      > we do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
                      >
                      > Todd Groves
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Norma J F Harrison
                      children. kids = devil-may-care.  kick-up-your-heels.  the happiest time of your life.  What impositions to put on people who are as or more besieged as  -
                      Message 10 of 24 , May 25, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        children.
                        kids = devil-may-care.  kick-up-your-heels.  the happiest time of your life. 
                        What impositions to put on people who are as or more besieged as  - than we
                        adults are...
                        students, young people.
                        Norma
                        ________________________________
                        From: Todd Groves tag1022@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed,
                        May 25, 2011 8:35:43 PM Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                        The report had us as the very last of California's 146 large districts on
                        multiple measures. We can discount test taking, but many of our kids have
                        fundamental deficiencies .......................

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Kevin Rivard
                        You do not need new solutions. The solution is in the past. Education is not a magical, mystical, elusive idea. If we could send a man to the moon with little
                        Message 11 of 24 , May 26, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          You do not need new solutions. The solution is in the past. Education is not a magical, mystical, elusive idea. If we could send a man to the moon with little more than a slide rule and and a dream, we can teach third graders their times tables and how to read Dick and Jane books. One problem with education is we adults like to make it complicated, some to keep their jobs others to become consultants and have perpetual income.
                          If you teach a child to think and read you have created a lifelong learner. If you tell a child they can't think or read or do not give them the opportunity you have created a life long dependent, just the way the powers to be want it, so they have perpetual power. Think about it if you still can.



                          To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                          From: tag1022@...
                          Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 03:35:43 +0000
                          Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?






                          The report had us as the very last of California's 146 large districts on multiple measures. We can discount test taking, but many of our kids have fundamental deficiencies in math and writing, both of which we should agree constitute "real education."

                          If not in an academy, many of our kids come out without skills. Hopefully, community colleges and trade schools will patch them up, but our kids are in big trouble. The kids currently in high school were the first raised entirely in test crazy schools, and the first surrounded by distracting technology.

                          Many of us are doing all we can to spark interest in these young minds. How do we motivate kids to attend to studies? Do we raise the bar on expectations? If we raise the bar, will that only cause them to fall farther, ala Algebra for all 8th grade students.

                          If not the tests, how do we assess to see what kids know? How can we achieve rigor at the individual student level. Extend the school year? Afterschool and Saturday school for kids falling behind?

                          The report, if only marginally true, speaks to a grave condition. In middle and high school, students seem to lack a basic motivation. We need to find new solutions now.

                          Todd Groves

                          --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Eduardo Martinez <ezedmartin@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > A better conversation would be about the meaning of education and how "real
                          > education" would impact the community. Right now education seems to be on the
                          > retention of facts and test taking skills, both important, but far from what I
                          > would consider a measurement of education.
                          >
                          > Eduardo
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Jim Cowen <jimcowen@...>
                          > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 11:26:12 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                          >
                          >
                          > Well, in a grander, outside education view, it has lots of meaning
                          > -property values
                          > -flight of families
                          > -where state money will be directed, or not directed
                          > -etc, etc, etc
                          >
                          > So, it could be TWO conversation starters. One about the merits of tests and
                          > what they mean, and the other about the effect the test results have on a
                          > community.
                          >
                          > Jim
                          >
                          > --- On Tue, 5/24/11, Eduardo Martinez <ezedmartin@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > From: Eduardo Martinez <ezedmartin@...>
                          > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                          > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 5:41 PM
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > If what we are concerned about is whether or not our students are good test
                          > takers, then this study is something to be concerned about. It may be accurate
                          > in terms of data, but it has no meaning other than what API scores would reveal.
                          >
                          > In statistical studies, the meaning is in the questions and often the answers
                          > found in the data have nothing to do with what is actually going on in real
                          > life. Carrie Hahnel, director of policy and research at Ed Trust and a
                          > co-author of the study said, "If nothing else, we'd be delighted if this is a
                          > conversation starter." I would say that this is nothing more that a
                          > conversation starter.
                          >
                          > Eduardo
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                          > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 11:12:13 AM
                          > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                          >
                          > Did anyone read the headlines yesterday?
                          > http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1 . Surely,
                          > we can't be THAT BAD.
                          >
                          > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
                          > anyone have a clue?
                          >
                          > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what do
                          >
                          > we do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
                          >
                          > Todd Groves
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • playeredu@cs.com
                          These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th
                          Message 12 of 24 , May 26, 2011
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                            These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th grade. Read Aloud is wonderful, but only at 5 schools and can only handle a small number of early primary students that are recommended by teachers to the program. A Delta Kappa Gamma chapter has been doing a Birthday Book project at Grant elementary for first and second grade students, but there is no one on one time provided in this program. My El Cerrito Soroptimist group will start reading to the Kindergarten students next Fall at Grant...Depending on Volunteers and Teacher wishes, the program can be in small groups or one on one.....Both of these programs at Grant give away books to the students....on their Special Day during the year....including summer birthdays in May.....I think there are professional and retired groups that could be recruited, but the Volunteer ID process is too costly and time consuming....At Grant we use recently retired teachers so they have their TB and ID badges....Just a few ideas to get members of this talk program thinking.






                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Ramosla <Ramosla@...>
                            To: wccusdtalk <wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:34 am
                            Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?



                            I haven't given up but when you look at other school districts, ie SRV and they
                            re a C-, that's not good either. What it tells me is that in those Districts
                            hat the children of color are not getting the same resources as the white
                            hildren, in that the enrichment activities after school are not the same. That
                            an also be said here and/or by school here, where more monies are funneled into
                            itle 1 schools even when there are Title 1 entitled children at others schools,
                            hose schools are not given those funds but are sent to schools where more than
                            5% (I think that is it) students are Title 1. So in fact those students are
                            etting even more resources than intended. Some of those schools are doing
                            eally well, which furthers my idea about funding and enrichment. Overall I
                            hink we are making strides in the right direction but we need more funding in
                            he classroom. We need a technology plan. We need well educated Teachers. We
                            eed to have current curriculum that is no
                            t cookie-cutter across the District and recognize that one-size does not fit
                            ll. We are a very diverse District and have to be able to adjust our programs
                            o fit the needs of the community that the school serves. I feel that this is
                            one through the School Site Councils, with oversight of course that they are
                            eeting the needs of all children. There is no easy answer, but you already
                            new that.
                            Laura




                            -----Original Message-----
                            rom: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                            o: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                            ent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12 am
                            ubject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?




                            id anyone read the headlines yesterday? http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1
                            Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
                            OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
                            nyone have a clue?
                            Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what do
                            e do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
                            Todd Groves






                            Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            ------------------------------------
                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                            Individual Email | Traditional
                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Todd Groves
                            The WriterCoach Connection project at ECHS and perhaps Portola this Fall will need scores of new coaches. We want to give every 9th Grade student personal
                            Message 13 of 24 , May 26, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              The WriterCoach Connection project at ECHS and perhaps Portola this Fall will need scores of new coaches. We want to give every 9th Grade student personal guidance through the writing process. By establishing personal connections with a supportive adult, students will know the community supports their learning. You can sign-up by registering here http://www.writercoachconnection.org .

                              We need to make volunteering much easier while preserving student safety. Can we use local police departments to do the background checks? Would Kaiser consider covering TB clearances? Can the board promote volunteering in our growing numbers of projects?

                              The board and upper leadership can empanel a WCCUSD volunteer commission to drive the issue. We need this now to meet the need this Fall.

                              Todd Groves

                              --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, playeredu@... wrote:
                              >
                              > These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th grade. Read Aloud is wonderful, but only at 5 schools and can only handle a small number of early primary students that are recommended by teachers to the program. A Delta Kappa Gamma chapter has been doing a Birthday Book project at Grant elementary for first and second grade students, but there is no one on one time provided in this program. My El Cerrito Soroptimist group will start reading to the Kindergarten students next Fall at Grant...Depending on Volunteers and Teacher wishes, the program can be in small groups or one on one.....Both of these programs at Grant give away books to the students....on their Special Day during the year....including summer birthdays in May.....I think there are professional and retired groups that could be recruited, but the Volunteer ID process is too costly and time consuming....At Grant we use recently retired teachers so they have their TB and ID badges....Just a few ideas to get members of this talk program thinking.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Ramosla <Ramosla@...>
                              > To: wccusdtalk <wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:34 am
                              > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I haven't given up but when you look at other school districts, ie SRV and they
                              > re a C-, that's not good either. What it tells me is that in those Districts
                              > hat the children of color are not getting the same resources as the white
                              > hildren, in that the enrichment activities after school are not the same. That
                              > an also be said here and/or by school here, where more monies are funneled into
                              > itle 1 schools even when there are Title 1 entitled children at others schools,
                              > hose schools are not given those funds but are sent to schools where more than
                              > 5% (I think that is it) students are Title 1. So in fact those students are
                              > etting even more resources than intended. Some of those schools are doing
                              > eally well, which furthers my idea about funding and enrichment. Overall I
                              > hink we are making strides in the right direction but we need more funding in
                              > he classroom. We need a technology plan. We need well educated Teachers. We
                              > eed to have current curriculum that is no
                              > t cookie-cutter across the District and recognize that one-size does not fit
                              > ll. We are a very diverse District and have to be able to adjust our programs
                              > o fit the needs of the community that the school serves. I feel that this is
                              > one through the School Site Councils, with oversight of course that they are
                              > eeting the needs of all children. There is no easy answer, but you already
                              > new that.
                              > Laura
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > rom: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                              > o: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                              > ent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12 am
                              > ubject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > id anyone read the headlines yesterday? http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1
                              > Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
                              > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
                              > nyone have a clue?
                              > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what do
                              > e do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
                              > Todd Groves
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > Individual Email | Traditional
                              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Norma J F Harrison
                              While well-off to Rich children are (I only suspect) getting better services than poor/er children, the situation is that with few exceptions no one is being
                              Message 14 of 24 , May 26, 2011
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                                While well-off to Rich children are (I only suspect) getting better services
                                than poor/er children, the situation is that with few exceptions no one is being
                                well served by school. The opposite, in fact.
                                Yes, it's been a problem to be sure that school become what it started out to
                                be, a tool to ready workers to slave for our Owners.  There had been a bit of a
                                glitch for a while, with white children, Jewish, for one, or rich - another
                                group, Catholics in Catholic school, getting a bit better training than the
                                rest.  But that all got equalized when Black children became more a part of the
                                student population.  That was really frightening for our Owners. 

                                Struggles for justice depend on community, usually the actual source of
                                knowledge, study, information. If that were to expand by including more and more
                                people/communities, students, it'd be a serious problem for those bosses -
                                owners.  So school went from being an intolerable enclosure of students,
                                offering a rare good experience, to an increasingly boring, stifling oppression.
                                Teachers have been being blamed for that.
                                You know all the reasons that's not why.
                                School horror is not going to be permitted to do any but get even worse.

                                Norma

                                ________________________________
                                From: Todd Groves tag1022@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu,
                                May 26, 2011 4:16:55 PM Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                                The WriterCoach Connection project at ECHS and perhaps Portola this Fall will
                                need scores of new coaches. We want to give every 9th Grade student personal
                                guidance through the writing process. By establishing personal connections with
                                a supportive adult, students will know the community supports their learning.
                                You can sign-up by registering here http://www.writercoachconnection.org .

                                We need to make volunteering much easier while preserving student safety. Can we
                                use local police departments to do the background checks? Would Kaiser consider
                                covering TB clearances? Can the board promote volunteering in our growing
                                numbers of projects?

                                The board and upper leadership can empanel a WCCUSD volunteer commission to
                                drive the issue. We need this now to meet the need this Fall.


                                Todd Groves

                                --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, playeredu@... wrote:
                                >
                                > These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to
                                >get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th
                                >grade.  Read Aloud is wonderful, but only at 5 schools and can only handle a
                                >small number of early primary students that are recommended by teachers to the
                                >program.  A Delta Kappa Gamma chapter has been doing a Birthday Book project at
                                >Grant elementary for first and second grade students, but there is no one on one
                                >time provided in this program.  My El Cerrito Soroptimist group will start
                                >reading to the Kindergarten students next Fall at Grant...Depending on
                                >Volunteers and Teacher wishes, the program can be in small groups or one on
                                >one.....Both of these programs at Grant give away books to the students....on
                                >their Special Day during the year....including summer birthdays in May.....I
                                >think there are professional and retired groups that could be recruited, but the
                                >Volunteer ID process is too costly and time consuming....At Grant we use
                                >recently retired teachers so they have their TB and ID badges....Just a few
                                >ideas to get members of this talk program thinking.
                                > > > > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Ramosla <Ramosla@...>
                                > To: wccusdtalk <wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:34 am
                                > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                                > >
                                > I haven't given up but when you look at other school districts, ie SRV and they
                                >
                                > re a C-, that's not good either.  What it tells me is that in those Districts
                                > hat the children of color are not getting the same resources as the white
                                > hildren, in that the enrichment activities after school are not the same.  That
                                >
                                > an also be said here and/or by school here, where more monies are funneled into
                                >
                                > itle 1 schools even when there are Title 1 entitled children at others schools,
                                >
                                > hose schools are not given those funds but are sent to schools where more than

                                > 5% (I think that is it) students are Title 1.  So in fact those students are
                                > etting even more resources than intended.  Some of those schools are doing
                                > eally well, which furthers my idea about funding and enrichment.  Overall I
                                > hink we are making strides in the right direction but we need more funding in
                                > he classroom.  We need a technology plan.  We need well educated Teachers.  We

                                > eed to have current curriculum that is no
                                > t cookie-cutter across the District and recognize that one-size does not fit
                                > ll.  We are a very diverse District and have to be able to adjust our programs

                                > o fit the needs of the community that the school serves.  I feel that this is
                                > one through the School Site Councils, with oversight of course that they are
                                > eeting the needs of all children.  There is no easy answer, but you already
                                > new that.
                                > Laura> 
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > rom: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                                > o: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                > ent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12 am
                                > ubject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?>                 
                                > id anyone read the headlines yesterday?
                                >http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1
                                >
                                >  Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
                                > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
                                >
                                > nyone have a clue?
                                > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what
                                >do
                                >
                                > e do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
                                > Todd Groves

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Norma J F Harrison
                                You get more and more horrid - Children are people! Children think!!!! When you say teach anyone to think you re just saying, make a person toe the line set by
                                Message 15 of 24 , May 27, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  You get more and more horrid -
                                  Children are people! Children think!!!!
                                  When you say teach anyone to think you're just saying, make a person toe the
                                  line set by you, or the state or such.
                                  It is so wrong !!!!  to say teach anyone to think!  And 'teaching to read' would
                                  be just as much part of life as learning to talk, left to our own living, left
                                  to just get along.
                                  Anti-human need and desire - our Owners' control of our lives -  gets in the way
                                  of just living.  So these institutions can come in and rob us of our lives,
                                  taking over what would otherwise just be what we do.
                                  A big project is made of learning to read; creates jobs, creates authority,
                                  strata of control.
                                  That you can't see that school is not education is our Owners' success at mind
                                  control.
                                  Norma

                                  ________________________________


                                  You do not need new solutions. The solution is in the past. Education is not a
                                  magical, mystical, elusive idea. If we could send a man to the moon with little
                                  more than a slide rule and and a dream, we can teach third graders their times
                                  tables and how to read Dick and Jane books. One problem with education is we
                                  adults like to make it complicated, some to keep their jobs others to become
                                  consultants and have perpetual income.
                                  If you teach a child to think and read you have created a lifelong learner. If
                                  you tell a child they can't think or read or do not give them the opportunity
                                  you have created a life long dependent, just the way the powers to be want it,
                                  so they have perpetual power. Think about it if you still can.

                                  To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com   From: tag1022@...  Date: Thu, 26 May 2011
                                  03:35:43 +0000 Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                                  The report had us as the very last of California's 146 large districts on
                                  multiple measures. We can discount test taking, but many of our kids have
                                  fundamental deficiencies in math and writing, both of which we should agree
                                  constitute "real education."


                                  If not in an academy, many of our kids come out without skills. Hopefully,
                                  community colleges and trade schools will patch them up, but our kids are in big
                                  trouble. The kids currently in high school were the first raised entirely in
                                  test crazy schools, and the first surrounded by distracting technology.


                                  Many of us are doing all we can to spark interest in these young minds. How do
                                  we motivate kids to attend to studies? Do we raise the bar on expectations? If
                                  we raise the bar, will that only cause them to fall farther, ala Algebra for all
                                  8th grade students.

                                  If not the tests, how do we assess to see what kids know? How can we achieve
                                  rigor at the individual student level. Extend the school year? Afterschool and
                                  Saturday school for kids falling behind?


                                  The report, if only marginally true, speaks to a grave condition. In middle and
                                  high school, students seem to lack a basic motivation. We need to find new
                                  solutions now.

                                  Todd Groves

                                  --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Eduardo Martinez <ezedmartin@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > A better conversation would be about the meaning of education and how "real
                                  > education" would impact the community. Right now education seems to be on the
                                  > retention of facts and test taking skills, both important, but far from what I

                                  > would consider a measurement of education.
                                  >
                                  > Eduardo
                                  From: Kevin Rivard kfrivard@...  To: h h
                                  wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, May 26, 2011 3:57:08 AM Subject: RE:
                                  [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Todd Groves
                                  We need to expand the decision-making capacity at the district level. Believe it or not, we just don t have enough people at the upper levels for our top down
                                  Message 16 of 24 , May 27, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    We need to expand the decision-making capacity at the district level. Believe it or not, we just don't have enough people at the upper levels for our top down management style. The need to comply consumes far too much meeting time, leaving little for innovation and development. What about partnering with municipalities to adapt schools to local needs? We do it with SRO's, are other partnerships possible?

                                    WCCUSD is an unorthodox structure requiring unorthodox approaches. How about an advisory board for each High School service area, like a Super SSC. Our most persistent problems cannot be resolved at either the school or district level, and the ED structures seem to be more about getting paper pushed on time than innovating. Save all the money dropped on consultants, and give our master teachers special assignment to resolve the most difficult instructional issues. It's the only way to resolve the deep problems.

                                    We need a serious partnership with all parties on addressing our most at-risk kids. We can pass these kids from school to school, but it's counterproductive. Richmond PD is instituting a new approach, focusing on single families most likely to generate trouble. Schools have to be part of the solution.

                                    Our kids have been lulled into thinking that entourage member can be a career goal. The academies are wonderful at instilling job skills, but career exposure must start happening in junior high.

                                    With a little more effort and a lot more forethought, our schools can rapidly fulfill their potential. For many in our community, schools must be transformative to escape a bleak future. We are close, but need to do much more.

                                    Todd Groves


                                    --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, playeredu@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th grade. Read Aloud is wonderful, but only at 5 schools and can only handle a small number of early primary students that are recommended by teachers to the program. A Delta Kappa Gamma chapter has been doing a Birthday Book project at Grant elementary for first and second grade students, but there is no one on one time provided in this program. My El Cerrito Soroptimist group will start reading to the Kindergarten students next Fall at Grant...Depending on Volunteers and Teacher wishes, the program can be in small groups or one on one.....Both of these programs at Grant give away books to the students....on their Special Day during the year....including summer birthdays in May.....I think there are professional and retired groups that could be recruited, but the Volunteer ID process is too costly and time consuming....At Grant we use recently retired teachers so they have their TB and ID badges....Just a few ideas to get members of this talk program thinking.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: Ramosla <Ramosla@...>
                                    > To: wccusdtalk <wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:34 am
                                    > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I haven't given up but when you look at other school districts, ie SRV and they
                                    > re a C-, that's not good either. What it tells me is that in those Districts
                                    > hat the children of color are not getting the same resources as the white
                                    > hildren, in that the enrichment activities after school are not the same. That
                                    > an also be said here and/or by school here, where more monies are funneled into
                                    > itle 1 schools even when there are Title 1 entitled children at others schools,
                                    > hose schools are not given those funds but are sent to schools where more than
                                    > 5% (I think that is it) students are Title 1. So in fact those students are
                                    > etting even more resources than intended. Some of those schools are doing
                                    > eally well, which furthers my idea about funding and enrichment. Overall I
                                    > hink we are making strides in the right direction but we need more funding in
                                    > he classroom. We need a technology plan. We need well educated Teachers. We
                                    > eed to have current curriculum that is no
                                    > t cookie-cutter across the District and recognize that one-size does not fit
                                    > ll. We are a very diverse District and have to be able to adjust our programs
                                    > o fit the needs of the community that the school serves. I feel that this is
                                    > one through the School Site Councils, with oversight of course that they are
                                    > eeting the needs of all children. There is no easy answer, but you already
                                    > new that.
                                    > Laura
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > rom: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                                    > o: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                    > ent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12 am
                                    > ubject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > id anyone read the headlines yesterday? http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1
                                    > Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
                                    > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
                                    > nyone have a clue?
                                    > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what do
                                    > e do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
                                    > Todd Groves
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > Individual Email | Traditional
                                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • Norma J F Harrison
                                    children, students. Nicer ways to talk about our people in school.  diminishes them.  like ladies . Norma.... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                    Message 17 of 24 , May 27, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      children, students. Nicer ways to talk about our people in school.  diminishes
                                      them.  like 'ladies'.
                                      Norma....

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Eduardo Martinez
                                      Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out what
                                      Message 18 of 24 , May 29, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education
                                        assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out
                                        what that purpose might be. I think we need to define what we believe education
                                        to be and from that establish what actions might get us there. Then we need to
                                        figure out the best way to evaluate the results; I say evaluate and not measure
                                        because some of the most valuable aspects of education cannot be measured:
                                        social skills, compassion, creativity, community awareness, etc. We are too
                                        tided into measuring results as if we are working with innate objects that will
                                        react to the same stimuli over and over. Teaching is a dynamic and creative
                                        process and the best teachers are the more creative ones with strong social
                                        skills and a fearlessness that prevents them from being tied down by
                                        convention.


                                        I would like to share a video from TED:
                                        http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1067760674856532262#
                                        Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative by Sir Ken Robinson
                                        There are several points that should be heard at: 8:40 where Sir Robinson speaks
                                        about the hierarchy of education,
                                        11:15 where he speaks to the industrialization of education and how this has led
                                        to the belief that academic ability is what education is about,
                                        13:15 where he defines intelligence as being diverse, dynamic and distinct and
                                        how education needs to nurture these aspects in learning by addressing the many
                                        styles of understanding our world, kinetically, visually, aurally, logically,
                                        physically and intuitively,
                                        18:00 where he uses a metaphor for how we teach and thereby get an idea of what
                                        we are doing wrong.

                                        For those of you who might not watch, I would like to share the story of Gillian
                                        Lynn, the choreographer of CATS and other Broadway musicals. Because she was a
                                        failure and behavior problem in school, the principal/councilor suggested to
                                        Gillian's mother that she might have some neurological problems and might need
                                        to see a doctor. At the doctor's office the mother shared all the graphs and
                                        reports given to her by the school and told the doctor why she was concerned
                                        while Gillian sat there on her hands to keep from moving around. After
                                        listening, the doctor said he might be able to solve the problem, but that first
                                        he needed to speak to Gillian privately. The doctor took her into a room with a
                                        window, asked if she liked music, turned on the radio and excused himself. When
                                        he approached Gillian's mother, he told her to watch Gillian as Gillian danced
                                        about to the music. After watching Gillian dance for awhile, the doctor said,
                                        "You don't have a problem, you have a dancer! Get her out of that school and put
                                        her into a dance school". Gillian told Sir Robinson that when she stepped into
                                        the first dance class she no longer felt like an outcast and learned that there
                                        was a community who thought and felt like her. The school from which Gillian
                                        was transferred could have been any of our schools where we identify all
                                        students who need to move as having ADHD. This kind of identifing the strengths
                                        of students requires an astute staff and even more importantly the will to find
                                        the best avenue for each student instead of the efforts poured into pounding the
                                        student into the square peg we have fashioned for him/her.

                                        Eduardo

                                        http://www.eduardomartinez4richmond.net/index.html




                                        ________________________________
                                        From: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                                        To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 9:34:19 AM
                                        Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?


                                        We need to expand the decision-making capacity at the district level. Believe it
                                        or not, we just don't have enough people at the upper levels for our top down
                                        management style. The need to comply consumes far too much meeting time, leaving
                                        little for innovation and development. What about partnering with municipalities
                                        to adapt schools to local needs? We do it with SRO's, are other partnerships
                                        possible?

                                        WCCUSD is an unorthodox structure requiring unorthodox approaches. How about an
                                        advisory board for each High School service area, like a Super SSC. Our most
                                        persistent problems cannot be resolved at either the school or district level,
                                        and the ED structures seem to be more about getting paper pushed on time than
                                        innovating. Save all the money dropped on consultants, and give our master
                                        teachers special assignment to resolve the most difficult instructional issues.
                                        It's the only way to resolve the deep problems.

                                        We need a serious partnership with all parties on addressing our most at-risk
                                        kids. We can pass these kids from school to school, but it's counterproductive.
                                        Richmond PD is instituting a new approach, focusing on single families most
                                        likely to generate trouble. Schools have to be part of the solution.


                                        Our kids have been lulled into thinking that entourage member can be a career
                                        goal. The academies are wonderful at instilling job skills, but career exposure
                                        must start happening in junior high.


                                        With a little more effort and a lot more forethought, our schools can rapidly
                                        fulfill their potential. For many in our community, schools must be
                                        transformative to escape a bleak future. We are close, but need to do much more.

                                        Todd Groves

                                        --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, playeredu@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to
                                        >get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th
                                        >grade. Read Aloud is wonderful, but only at 5 schools and can only handle a
                                        >small number of early primary students that are recommended by teachers to the
                                        >program. A Delta Kappa Gamma chapter has been doing a Birthday Book project at
                                        >Grant elementary for first and second grade students, but there is no one on one
                                        >time provided in this program. My El Cerrito Soroptimist group will start
                                        >reading to the Kindergarten students next Fall at Grant...Depending on
                                        >Volunteers and Teacher wishes, the program can be in small groups or one on
                                        >one.....Both of these programs at Grant give away books to the students....on
                                        >their Special Day during the year....including summer birthdays in May.....I
                                        >think there are professional and retired groups that could be recruited, but the
                                        >Volunteer ID process is too costly and time consuming....At Grant we use
                                        >recently retired teachers so they have their TB and ID badges....Just a few
                                        >ideas to get members of this talk program thinking.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: Ramosla <Ramosla@...>
                                        > To: wccusdtalk <wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:34 am
                                        > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I haven't given up but when you look at other school districts, ie SRV and they
                                        >
                                        > re a C-, that's not good either. What it tells me is that in those Districts
                                        > hat the children of color are not getting the same resources as the white
                                        > hildren, in that the enrichment activities after school are not the same. That
                                        >
                                        > an also be said here and/or by school here, where more monies are funneled into
                                        >
                                        > itle 1 schools even when there are Title 1 entitled children at others schools,
                                        >
                                        > hose schools are not given those funds but are sent to schools where more than

                                        > 5% (I think that is it) students are Title 1. So in fact those students are
                                        > etting even more resources than intended. Some of those schools are doing
                                        > eally well, which furthers my idea about funding and enrichment. Overall I
                                        > hink we are making strides in the right direction but we need more funding in
                                        > he classroom. We need a technology plan. We need well educated Teachers. We

                                        > eed to have current curriculum that is no
                                        > t cookie-cutter across the District and recognize that one-size does not fit
                                        > ll. We are a very diverse District and have to be able to adjust our programs

                                        > o fit the needs of the community that the school serves. I feel that this is
                                        > one through the School Site Councils, with oversight of course that they are
                                        > eeting the needs of all children. There is no easy answer, but you already
                                        > new that.
                                        > Laura
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > rom: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                                        > o: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                        > ent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12 am
                                        > ubject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > id anyone read the headlines yesterday?
                                        >http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1
                                        >
                                        > Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
                                        > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
                                        >
                                        > nyone have a clue?
                                        > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what
                                        >do
                                        >
                                        > e do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
                                        > Todd Groves
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        > Individual Email | Traditional
                                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Norma J F Harrison
                                        Good teaching is a myth of the for-profit world.  If we can see that the places to be are where people want to be, not where the profit-loaded system
                                        Message 19 of 24 , May 29, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Good teaching is a myth of the for-profit world.  If we can see that the places
                                          to be are where people want to be, not where the profit-loaded system requires,
                                          we can begin to grasp the huge deformity we're up against, and work to change
                                          it.  Picture a four year old wandering into a shop in which wooden or mixed
                                          material objects are being made.  What a bunch of teaching goes on there! And
                                          learning, for that's what happens when teaching is real and not this hold over
                                          the participants, 'teachers' and students alike.
                                          And picture the 10 or 20 or 50 year old 'wandering' into a research lab .... or
                                          onto a farm - small farm must become the norm...  or into the yard to play with
                                          people   ....etc.
                                          WE ARE ALL ALWAYS CREATIVE!!!  Your requirement of creative is not the only
                                          creative.  Your requirement though, is structurally abusive to us mass,
                                          insulting, dismissive, disagreeing -

                                          And THAT's exaCTly what school is!
                                          Norma

                                          ________________________________
                                          From: Eduardo Martinez ezedmartin@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                                          Sun, May 29, 2011 3:09:40 PM Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                                          Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education
                                          assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out
                                          what that purpose might be.  I think we need to define what we believe education

                                          to be and from that establish what actions might get us there. Then we need to
                                          figure out the best way to evaluate the results; I say evaluate and not measure
                                          because some of the most valuable aspects of education cannot be measured:
                                          social skills, compassion, creativity, community awareness, etc.  We are too
                                          tided into measuring results as if we are working with innate objects that will
                                          react to the same stimuli over and over.  Teaching is a dynamic and creative
                                          process and the best teachers are the more creative ones with strong social
                                          skills and a fearlessness that prevents them from being tied down by
                                          convention. 


                                          I would like to share a video from TED: 
                                          http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1067760674856532262#
                                          Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative by Sir Ken Robinson
                                          There are several points that should be heard at: 8:40 where Sir Robinson speaks

                                          about the hierarchy of education,
                                          11:15 where he speaks to the industrialization of education and how this has led

                                          to the belief that academic ability is what education is about,
                                          13:15 where he defines intelligence as being diverse, dynamic and distinct and
                                          how education needs to nurture these aspects in learning by addressing the many
                                          styles of understanding our world, kinetically, visually, aurally, logically,
                                          physically and intuitively,
                                          18:00 where he uses a metaphor for how we teach and thereby get an idea of what
                                          we are doing wrong.

                                          For those of you who might not watch, I would like to share the story of Gillian

                                          Lynn, the choreographer of CATS and other Broadway musicals.  Because she was a
                                          failure and behavior problem in school, the principal/councilor suggested to
                                          ....

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Kevin Rivard
                                          Eduardo, At the risk of once again being lumped in with those that can t see the forest from the trees, so to speak, when it comes to education I would like to
                                          Message 20 of 24 , May 29, 2011
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Eduardo,

                                            At the risk of once again being lumped in with those that can't see the forest from the trees, so to speak, when it comes to education I would like to say I agree with your post.

                                            We need to define what we want for our kids through their education.

                                            We had three kids. It took my wife longer than I to want to pull our kids out of the "normal" schooling this district offers most kids. Her epiphany came at Adams Middle School when our fourth child then in 6th grade was getting A's and B's but could not read at a third grade level or do basic math. This was in a family that was active in SSC;s PTA's and had three previous kids go through the system, at that time, to the 9th grade level. When we had a conference with five of her six teachers and they just looked at us with the deer in the headlight look and asked what is the problem.

                                            My wife and I walked out of the meeting and immediately started steps to get our three daughters 6th, 7th and 8th graders at Adams into Independent study.

                                            We continued going to board meetings, SSC and PTA meeting trying to make a difference for other kids. We took care of our own, brought them all up to speed and they are now all doing well with familys of their own.

                                            We did not stop caring for the other kids but we finally realized that there really are few individuals willing to take the time for kids and stick to it. The administrations. . . .


                                            I don't know, I am going to stop because someone is just going to misconstrue what I am saying and my wife and I put 20 years into this district and most of what we got was grief and even now, from those who are currently trying to create change, just want to label us as haters.

                                            Good luck on trying to do good for the kids. I hope you have more stamina than my wife and I had.



                                            To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                            From: ezedmartin@...
                                            Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 15:09:40 -0700
                                            Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?






                                            Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education
                                            assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out
                                            what that purpose might be. I think we need to define what we believe education
                                            to be and from that establish what actions might get us there. Then we need to
                                            figure out the best way to evaluate the results; I say evaluate and not measure
                                            because some of the most valuable aspects of education cannot be measured:
                                            social skills, compassion, creativity, community awareness, etc. We are too
                                            tided into measuring results as if we are working with innate objects that will
                                            react to the same stimuli over and over. Teaching is a dynamic and creative
                                            process and the best teachers are the more creative ones with strong social
                                            skills and a fearlessness that prevents them from being tied down by
                                            convention.

                                            I would like to share a video from TED:
                                            http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1067760674856532262#
                                            Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative by Sir Ken Robinson
                                            There are several points that should be heard at: 8:40 where Sir Robinson speaks
                                            about the hierarchy of education,
                                            11:15 where he speaks to the industrialization of education and how this has led
                                            to the belief that academic ability is what education is about,
                                            13:15 where he defines intelligence as being diverse, dynamic and distinct and
                                            how education needs to nurture these aspects in learning by addressing the many
                                            styles of understanding our world, kinetically, visually, aurally, logically,
                                            physically and intuitively,
                                            18:00 where he uses a metaphor for how we teach and thereby get an idea of what
                                            we are doing wrong.

                                            For those of you who might not watch, I would like to share the story of Gillian
                                            Lynn, the choreographer of CATS and other Broadway musicals. Because she was a
                                            failure and behavior problem in school, the principal/councilor suggested to
                                            Gillian's mother that she might have some neurological problems and might need
                                            to see a doctor. At the doctor's office the mother shared all the graphs and
                                            reports given to her by the school and told the doctor why she was concerned
                                            while Gillian sat there on her hands to keep from moving around. After
                                            listening, the doctor said he might be able to solve the problem, but that first
                                            he needed to speak to Gillian privately. The doctor took her into a room with a
                                            window, asked if she liked music, turned on the radio and excused himself. When
                                            he approached Gillian's mother, he told her to watch Gillian as Gillian danced
                                            about to the music. After watching Gillian dance for awhile, the doctor said,
                                            "You don't have a problem, you have a dancer! Get her out of that school and put
                                            her into a dance school". Gillian told Sir Robinson that when she stepped into
                                            the first dance class she no longer felt like an outcast and learned that there
                                            was a community who thought and felt like her. The school from which Gillian
                                            was transferred could have been any of our schools where we identify all
                                            students who need to move as having ADHD. This kind of identifing the strengths
                                            of students requires an astute staff and even more importantly the will to find
                                            the best avenue for each student instead of the efforts poured into pounding the
                                            student into the square peg we have fashioned for him/her.

                                            Eduardo

                                            http://www.eduardomartinez4richmond.net/index.html

                                            ________________________________
                                            From: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                                            To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 9:34:19 AM
                                            Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                                            We need to expand the decision-making capacity at the district level. Believe it
                                            or not, we just don't have enough people at the upper levels for our top down
                                            management style. The need to comply consumes far too much meeting time, leaving
                                            little for innovation and development. What about partnering with municipalities
                                            to adapt schools to local needs? We do it with SRO's, are other partnerships
                                            possible?

                                            WCCUSD is an unorthodox structure requiring unorthodox approaches. How about an
                                            advisory board for each High School service area, like a Super SSC. Our most
                                            persistent problems cannot be resolved at either the school or district level,
                                            and the ED structures seem to be more about getting paper pushed on time than
                                            innovating. Save all the money dropped on consultants, and give our master
                                            teachers special assignment to resolve the most difficult instructional issues.
                                            It's the only way to resolve the deep problems.

                                            We need a serious partnership with all parties on addressing our most at-risk
                                            kids. We can pass these kids from school to school, but it's counterproductive.
                                            Richmond PD is instituting a new approach, focusing on single families most
                                            likely to generate trouble. Schools have to be part of the solution.

                                            Our kids have been lulled into thinking that entourage member can be a career
                                            goal. The academies are wonderful at instilling job skills, but career exposure
                                            must start happening in junior high.

                                            With a little more effort and a lot more forethought, our schools can rapidly
                                            fulfill their potential. For many in our community, schools must be
                                            transformative to escape a bleak future. We are close, but need to do much more.

                                            Todd Groves

                                            --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, playeredu@... wrote:
                                            >
                                            > These comments by Laura are certainly refreshing....Also, I think we need to
                                            >get more volunteers into the elementary schools to encourage reading before 4th
                                            >grade. Read Aloud is wonderful, but only at 5 schools and can only handle a
                                            >small number of early primary students that are recommended by teachers to the
                                            >program. A Delta Kappa Gamma chapter has been doing a Birthday Book project at
                                            >Grant elementary for first and second grade students, but there is no one on one
                                            >time provided in this program. My El Cerrito Soroptimist group will start
                                            >reading to the Kindergarten students next Fall at Grant...Depending on
                                            >Volunteers and Teacher wishes, the program can be in small groups or one on
                                            >one.....Both of these programs at Grant give away books to the students....on
                                            >their Special Day during the year....including summer birthdays in May.....I
                                            >think there are professional and retired groups that could be recruited, but the
                                            >Volunteer ID process is too costly and time consuming....At Grant we use
                                            >recently retired teachers so they have their TB and ID badges....Just a few
                                            >ideas to get members of this talk program thinking.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: Ramosla <Ramosla@...>
                                            > To: wccusdtalk <wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > Sent: Tue, May 24, 2011 10:34 am
                                            > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I haven't given up but when you look at other school districts, ie SRV and they
                                            >
                                            > re a C-, that's not good either. What it tells me is that in those Districts
                                            > hat the children of color are not getting the same resources as the white
                                            > hildren, in that the enrichment activities after school are not the same. That
                                            >
                                            > an also be said here and/or by school here, where more monies are funneled into
                                            >
                                            > itle 1 schools even when there are Title 1 entitled children at others schools,
                                            >
                                            > hose schools are not given those funds but are sent to schools where more than

                                            > 5% (I think that is it) students are Title 1. So in fact those students are
                                            > etting even more resources than intended. Some of those schools are doing
                                            > eally well, which furthers my idea about funding and enrichment. Overall I
                                            > hink we are making strides in the right direction but we need more funding in
                                            > he classroom. We need a technology plan. We need well educated Teachers. We

                                            > eed to have current curriculum that is no
                                            > t cookie-cutter across the District and recognize that one-size does not fit
                                            > ll. We are a very diverse District and have to be able to adjust our programs

                                            > o fit the needs of the community that the school serves. I feel that this is
                                            > one through the School Site Councils, with oversight of course that they are
                                            > eeting the needs of all children. There is no easy answer, but you already
                                            > new that.
                                            > Laura
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > rom: Todd Groves <tag1022@...>
                                            > o: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                            > ent: Tue, May 24, 2011 9:12 am
                                            > ubject: [wccusdtalk] Is this list dead?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > id anyone read the headlines yesterday?
                                            >http://www.contracostatimes.com/education/ci_18107724?nclick_check=1
                                            >
                                            > Surely, we can't be THAT BAD.
                                            > OMG, have we all just given up? What does the report mean? Is it accurate? Does
                                            >
                                            > nyone have a clue?
                                            > Does the report reflect what you are seeing in your schools? If it does, what
                                            >do
                                            >
                                            > e do about it? If not this forum, where do we take this?
                                            > Todd Groves
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            > ------------------------------------
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > Individual Email | Traditional
                                            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Eduardo Martinez
                                            I often agree with you, but at times I have difficulty understanding exactly where you re coming from. For instance, you say, Good teaching is a myth of the
                                            Message 21 of 24 , May 30, 2011
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              I often agree with you, but at times I have difficulty understanding exactly
                                              where you're coming from. For instance, you say, "Good teaching is a myth of
                                              the for-profit world." Does this imply that there is no good teaching or that
                                              there is no teaching? And in making such a statement, can you define what you
                                              mean by "teaching"? (By the way, I made no mention of good teaching... but if
                                              I were to do so, the definition would include authentic relationships in which
                                              all participants engage in understanding "reality".) I also am curious about
                                              your definition of CREATIVE!!! Does your definition include the thoughts that
                                              one has after waking up while staring at the ceiling? I sense that you are
                                              reading more into what I wrote than what I intended. I would appreciate knowing
                                              how what I wrote is "structurally abusive to us mass", how it is "insulting" and
                                              "dismissive". (Again, I don't see how you get that I was defining "the creative
                                              process". I was explaining the various modes of experiencing that needs to be
                                              considered " by addressing the many styles of understanding our world,
                                              kinetically, visually, aurally, logically, physically and intuitively". If
                                              there are any other modes that I missed, I would certainly like to become aware
                                              of them.

                                              Eduardo
                                              http://www.eduardomartinez4richmond.net/index.html




                                              ________________________________
                                              From: Norma J F Harrison <normaha@...>
                                              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Sun, May 29, 2011 6:29:13 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?


                                              Good teaching is a myth of the for-profit world. If we can see that the places
                                              to be are where people want to be, not where the profit-loaded system requires,
                                              we can begin to grasp the huge deformity we're up against, and work to change
                                              it. Picture a four year old wandering into a shop in which wooden or mixed
                                              material objects are being made. What a bunch of teaching goes on there! And
                                              learning, for that's what happens when teaching is real and not this hold over
                                              the participants, 'teachers' and students alike.
                                              And picture the 10 or 20 or 50 year old 'wandering' into a research lab .... or
                                              onto a farm - small farm must become the norm... or into the yard to play with
                                              people ....etc.
                                              WE ARE ALL ALWAYS CREATIVE!!! Your requirement of creative is not the only
                                              creative. Your requirement though, is structurally abusive to us mass,
                                              insulting, dismissive, disagreeing -

                                              And THAT's exaCTly what school is!
                                              Norma

                                              ________________________________
                                              From: Eduardo Martinez ezedmartin@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent:

                                              Sun, May 29, 2011 3:09:40 PM Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                                              Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education
                                              assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out
                                              what that purpose might be. I think we need to define what we believe education


                                              to be and from that establish what actions might get us there. Then we need to
                                              figure out the best way to evaluate the results; I say evaluate and not measure
                                              because some of the most valuable aspects of education cannot be measured:
                                              social skills, compassion, creativity, community awareness, etc. We are too
                                              tided into measuring results as if we are working with innate objects that will
                                              react to the same stimuli over and over. Teaching is a dynamic and creative
                                              process and the best teachers are the more creative ones with strong social
                                              skills and a fearlessness that prevents them from being tied down by
                                              convention.

                                              I would like to share a video from TED:
                                              http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1067760674856532262#
                                              Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative by Sir Ken Robinson
                                              There are several points that should be heard at: 8:40 where Sir Robinson speaks


                                              about the hierarchy of education,
                                              11:15 where he speaks to the industrialization of education and how this has led


                                              to the belief that academic ability is what education is about,
                                              13:15 where he defines intelligence as being diverse, dynamic and distinct and
                                              how education needs to nurture these aspects in learning by addressing the many
                                              styles of understanding our world, kinetically, visually, aurally, logically,
                                              physically and intuitively,
                                              18:00 where he uses a metaphor for how we teach and thereby get an idea of what
                                              we are doing wrong.

                                              For those of you who might not watch, I would like to share the story of Gillian


                                              Lynn, the choreographer of CATS and other Broadway musicals. Because she was a
                                              failure and behavior problem in school, the principal/councilor suggested to
                                              ....

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Norma J F Harrison
                                              They ve taken another element of our lives and commodified it, stood it out there for all to worship, teaching. Teaching is a natural behavior.  We enjoy
                                              Message 22 of 24 , May 30, 2011
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                They've taken another element of our lives and commodified it, stood it out
                                                there for all to worship, teaching.
                                                Teaching is a natural behavior.  We enjoy it.  It's a pleasure to share
                                                knowledge, idea, skill, questions and proposed answers.  But those are now made
                                                into the horror that school is, put forward by 'the teacher'.  While it's
                                                reasonable for there to be 'the dentist', the carpenter - although that's more
                                                readily modifiable - many people can pick up carpentry on the shop floor/ the
                                                building site -

                                                Anyway, it's wholly unreasonable for there to be 'the teacher'.  We're all
                                                teachers - and students - all our lives.  That that doesn't fit into the profit
                                                system - we have to be at 'work' so many hours a day in order to get paid so we
                                                can but our stuff from the people who own the company - The Rich, for whom we
                                                work -  that the natural part of relationships isn't teaching is reprehensible. 
                                                Let's hate it! 

                                                All our work - civil maintenance, housekeeping, - all of it fits supplying
                                                workers to enrich our Owners.
                                                We are alienated  from being able to enjoy many ways of 'working', work having
                                                become a hated feature for a number of reasons.

                                                But the fact is we do like to work - just not under these conditions.  We also
                                                like to play - and don't get enough opportunity to enjoy that.

                                                “a schoolmaster is a productive labourer when, in addition to belabouring the
                                                heads of his scholars, he works like a horse to enrich the school proprietor.
                                                That the latter has laid out his capital in a teaching factory, instead of in a
                                                sausage factory, does not alter the relation.” Marx

                                                so?....    Norma

                                                ________________________________
                                                From: Eduardo Martinez ezedmartin@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                                                Mon, May 30, 2011 4:41:42 PM Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                                                I often agree with you, but at times I have difficulty understanding exactly
                                                where you're coming from.  For instance, you say, "Good teaching is a myth of
                                                the for-profit world."  Does this imply that there is no good teaching or that
                                                there is no teaching?  And in making such a statement, can you define what you
                                                mean by "teaching"?  (By the way, I made no mention of good teaching...  but if
                                                I were to do so, the definition would include authentic relationships in which
                                                all participants engage in understanding "reality".)  I also am curious about
                                                your definition of CREATIVE!!!  Does your definition include the thoughts that
                                                one has after waking up while staring at the ceiling?  I sense that you are
                                                reading more into what I wrote than what I intended.  I would appreciate knowing

                                                how what I wrote is "structurally abusive to us mass", how it is "insulting" and

                                                "dismissive". (Again, I don't see how you get that I was defining "the creative
                                                process".  I was explaining the various modes of experiencing that needs to be
                                                considered " by addressing the many styles of understanding our world,
                                                kinetically, visually, aurally, logically, physically and intuitively".  If
                                                there are any other modes that I missed, I would certainly like to become aware
                                                of them.

                                                Eduardo
                                                http://www.eduardomartinez4richmond.net/index.html
                                                ________________________________
                                                From: Norma J F Harrison <normaha@...> To:
                                                wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, May 29, 2011 6:29:13 PM Subject: Re:
                                                [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?
                                                 
                                                Good teaching is a myth of the for-profit world.  If we can see that the places
                                                to be are where people want to be, not where the profit-loaded system requires,
                                                we can begin to grasp the huge deformity we're up against, and work to change
                                                it.  Picture a four year old wandering into a shop in which wooden or mixed
                                                material objects are being made.  What a bunch of teaching goes on there! And
                                                learning, for that's what happens when teaching is real and not this hold over
                                                the participants, 'teachers' and students alike.
                                                And picture the 10 or 20 or 50 year old 'wandering' into a research lab .... or
                                                onto a farm - small farm must become the norm...  or into the yard to play with
                                                people  ....etc.
                                                WE ARE ALL ALWAYS CREATIVE!!!  Your requirement of creative is not the only
                                                creative.  Your requirement though, is structurally abusive to us mass,
                                                insulting, dismissive, disagreeing -

                                                And THAT's exaCTly what school is!
                                                Norma
                                                ________________________________
                                                From: Eduardo Martinez ezedmartin@... To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                                                Sun, May 29, 2011 3:09:40 PM Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Is this list dead?

                                                Many of the ideas outlined by us presuppose a certain purpose for education
                                                assuming that we all are in agreement with that purpose without spelling out
                                                what that purpose might be.  I think we need to define what we believe education



                                                to be and from that establish what actions might get us there. Then we need to
                                                figure out the best way to evaluate the results; I say evaluate and not measure
                                                because some of the most valuable aspects of education cannot be measured:
                                                social skills, compassion, creativity, community awareness, etc.  We are too
                                                tided into measuring results as if we are working with innate objects that will
                                                react to the same stimuli over and over.  Teaching is a dynamic and creative
                                                process and the best teachers are the more creative ones with strong social
                                                skills and a fearlessness that prevents them from being tied down by
                                                convention. 

                                                I would like to share a video from TED: 
                                                http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1067760674856532262#  
                                                Out of Our Minds: Learning to be Creative by Sir Ken Robinson
                                                There are several points that should be heard at: 8:40 where Sir Robinson speaks


                                                about the hierarchy of education,
                                                11:15 where he speaks to the industrialization of education and how this has led

                                                to the belief that academic ability is what education is about,
                                                13:15 where he defines intelligence as being diverse, dynamic and distinct and
                                                how education needs to nurture these aspects in learning by addressing the many
                                                styles of understanding our world, kinetically, visually, aurally, logically,
                                                physically and intuitively,
                                                18:00 where he uses a metaphor for how we teach and thereby get an idea of what
                                                we are doing wrong.

                                                For those of you who might not watch, I would like to share the story of Gillian

                                                Lynn, the choreographer of CATS and other Broadway musicals.  Because she was a
                                                failure and behavior problem in school, the principal/councilor suggested to
                                                ....

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