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Re: [wccusdtalk] Mr. Butler Meeting

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  • Charley Cowens
    David, Thanks for not divulging the substantive issue about the particular teacher. Despite being really ticked off, you re sticking to the public details.
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 1, 2003
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      David,

      Thanks for not divulging the substantive issue about
      the particular teacher. Despite being really ticked
      off, you're sticking to the public details. Now, I
      have a question about one detail. Did the staff people
      give a reason for not notifying the non-complaining
      parents? It doesn't make it any more right or wrong,
      but I'm curious to know if this is a
      collective-bargaining-based procedural safequard for
      the teacher or not.

      Charley Cowens

      --- davidds9 <davidds9@...> wrote:
      > I attended a meeting at Pinole Middle School on
      > Monday, Sept 29th at
      > 5pm, concerning the problems with Mr. Butler, the
      > 8th grade science
      > teacher there who has been suspended. In attendance
      > were - Dr.
      > Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, Mrs Magyary, and another
      > gentleman whose name
      > escapes me at the moment. Also in attendance were
      > about 20 other
      > parents of students who have heard complaints from
      > their kids about
      > Mr. Butler. First, I would like to thank Sonya
      > Mitchell (kudos) for
      > contacting me (and the other parents) to inform me
      > that there was a
      > meeting taking place on this matter. If not for her,
      > this whole
      > situation would have past me (and many other
      > parents) by. Every
      > parent there had children who had similar complaints
      > about Mr.
      > Butler as mine did, and some were even worse. One
      > woman was so
      > upset, that about 20 minutes into the meeting, she
      > was so fed up
      > with the lack of communication from the
      > administration, she stormed
      > out of the class room. I was under the impression
      > that Dr. Cohen was
      > going to address our concerns, but he had no
      > intention of doing
      > that. He did however take our complaints, but would
      > not give us any
      > of any indication of what we could expect to happen
      > or when. I have
      > been a union steward for 15 years so I understand
      > the union
      > regulations that are in play here - however, this
      > administration
      > deliberately failed to contact parents to inform
      > them that Mr.
      > Butler had been placed on admin leave due to
      > complaints by other
      > students. Legally speaking, the action itself is not
      > confidential,
      > only the nature of the action. Mrs Rowsey did admit
      > in the meeting
      > that the school only made contact with the parents
      > who filed
      > complaints. It was obvious to me that all of the
      > parents in
      > attendance were somewhat stunned to hear that the
      > school was
      > formally aware of a problem with Mr. Butler, but
      > deliberately chose
      > not to inform every parent of each student affected!
      > I sure was. And
      > what about the rest of the parents? All of us have a
      > right to know
      > that there is a problem concerning our children.
      > Sounds more like
      > the school wants to keep this out of the public as
      > much as they can.
      > This is unacceptable behavior on the part of the
      > administration. In
      > any case, Dr. Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, and Mrs Magyary
      > were very polite,
      > but I know I walked away with absolutely no feeling
      > that anything
      > was going to be done, as I know most of the other
      > parents did. Not
      > one question was answered, except to to say that our
      > concerns were
      > noted. I have heard repeatedly that the
      > administration has to be
      > careful not to violate Mr. Butler's rights, but not
      > one person has
      > mentioned anything about the rights of our children.
      > Mabey we should
      > organize a trade union for the students so that
      > their rights will be
      > upheld as diligently as the teachers rights are.
      >
      > David
      >
      >


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    • Paul Sosa
      I have to agree with Charley Cowens. I understand the legal obligation which management may have regarding personnel privacy issues with union members, but I
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 1, 2003
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        I have to agree with Charley Cowens. I understand the legal obligation which management may have regarding personnel privacy issues with union members, but I fail to see how that applies to parents sharing information. If the issues regarding Mr. Butler were discussed in a public meeting with 3rd party (the parents) participating, why can't those parents disclose the nature of what was discussed. Isn't it this kind of information that this forum was designed to share? Were those parents required to sign a non-disclosure agreement prior to attending the meeting?

        Paul

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Charley Cowens [mailto:c_cowens@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:43 PM
        To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Mr. Butler Meeting


        David,

        Thanks for not divulging the substantive issue about
        the particular teacher. Despite being really ticked
        off, you're sticking to the public details. Now, I
        have a question about one detail. Did the staff people
        give a reason for not notifying the non-complaining
        parents? It doesn't make it any more right or wrong,
        but I'm curious to know if this is a
        collective-bargaining-based procedural safequard for
        the teacher or not.

        Charley Cowens

        --- davidds9 <davidds9@...> wrote:
        > I attended a meeting at Pinole Middle School on
        > Monday, Sept 29th at
        > 5pm, concerning the problems with Mr. Butler, the
        > 8th grade science
        > teacher there who has been suspended. In attendance
        > were - Dr.
        > Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, Mrs Magyary, and another
        > gentleman whose name
        > escapes me at the moment. Also in attendance were
        > about 20 other
        > parents of students who have heard complaints from
        > their kids about
        > Mr. Butler. First, I would like to thank Sonya
        > Mitchell (kudos) for
        > contacting me (and the other parents) to inform me
        > that there was a
        > meeting taking place on this matter. If not for her,
        > this whole
        > situation would have past me (and many other
        > parents) by. Every
        > parent there had children who had similar complaints
        > about Mr.
        > Butler as mine did, and some were even worse. One
        > woman was so
        > upset, that about 20 minutes into the meeting, she
        > was so fed up
        > with the lack of communication from the
        > administration, she stormed
        > out of the class room. I was under the impression
        > that Dr. Cohen was
        > going to address our concerns, but he had no
        > intention of doing
        > that. He did however take our complaints, but would
        > not give us any
        > of any indication of what we could expect to happen
        > or when. I have
        > been a union steward for 15 years so I understand
        > the union
        > regulations that are in play here - however, this
        > administration
        > deliberately failed to contact parents to inform
        > them that Mr.
        > Butler had been placed on admin leave due to
        > complaints by other
        > students. Legally speaking, the action itself is not
        > confidential,
        > only the nature of the action. Mrs Rowsey did admit
        > in the meeting
        > that the school only made contact with the parents
        > who filed
        > complaints. It was obvious to me that all of the
        > parents in
        > attendance were somewhat stunned to hear that the
        > school was
        > formally aware of a problem with Mr. Butler, but
        > deliberately chose
        > not to inform every parent of each student affected!
        > I sure was. And
        > what about the rest of the parents? All of us have a
        > right to know
        > that there is a problem concerning our children.
        > Sounds more like
        > the school wants to keep this out of the public as
        > much as they can.
        > This is unacceptable behavior on the part of the
        > administration. In
        > any case, Dr. Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, and Mrs Magyary
        > were very polite,
        > but I know I walked away with absolutely no feeling
        > that anything
        > was going to be done, as I know most of the other
        > parents did. Not
        > one question was answered, except to to say that our
        > concerns were
        > noted. I have heard repeatedly that the
        > administration has to be
        > careful not to violate Mr. Butler's rights, but not
        > one person has
        > mentioned anything about the rights of our children.
        > Mabey we should
        > organize a trade union for the students so that
        > their rights will be
        > upheld as diligently as the teachers rights are.
        >
        > David
        >
        >


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      • davidds9
        Charley, I asked Mrs Rowsey why all parents were not contacted and she stated that there were too many parents and that she said something to the effect that
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 1, 2003
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          Charley,
          I asked Mrs Rowsey why all parents were not contacted and she stated
          that there were too many parents and that she said something to the
          effect that she didn't have the time. She didn't cite anything about
          any collective bargaining issues. Again, we only seem to be speaking
          about the teachers rights, why aren't we talking about the
          children's rights?

          David

          --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Charley Cowens <c_cowens@y...>
          wrote:
          > David,
          >
          > Thanks for not divulging the substantive issue about
          > the particular teacher. Despite being really ticked
          > off, you're sticking to the public details. Now, I
          > have a question about one detail. Did the staff people
          > give a reason for not notifying the non-complaining
          > parents? It doesn't make it any more right or wrong,
          > but I'm curious to know if this is a
          > collective-bargaining-based procedural safequard for
          > the teacher or not.
          >
          > Charley Cowens
          >
          > --- davidds9 <davidds9@y...> wrote:
          > > I attended a meeting at Pinole Middle School on
          > > Monday, Sept 29th at
          > > 5pm, concerning the problems with Mr. Butler, the
          > > 8th grade science
          > > teacher there who has been suspended. In attendance
          > > were - Dr.
          > > Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, Mrs Magyary, and another
          > > gentleman whose name
          > > escapes me at the moment. Also in attendance were
          > > about 20 other
          > > parents of students who have heard complaints from
          > > their kids about
          > > Mr. Butler. First, I would like to thank Sonya
          > > Mitchell (kudos) for
          > > contacting me (and the other parents) to inform me
          > > that there was a
          > > meeting taking place on this matter. If not for her,
          > > this whole
          > > situation would have past me (and many other
          > > parents) by. Every
          > > parent there had children who had similar complaints
          > > about Mr.
          > > Butler as mine did, and some were even worse. One
          > > woman was so
          > > upset, that about 20 minutes into the meeting, she
          > > was so fed up
          > > with the lack of communication from the
          > > administration, she stormed
          > > out of the class room. I was under the impression
          > > that Dr. Cohen was
          > > going to address our concerns, but he had no
          > > intention of doing
          > > that. He did however take our complaints, but would
          > > not give us any
          > > of any indication of what we could expect to happen
          > > or when. I have
          > > been a union steward for 15 years so I understand
          > > the union
          > > regulations that are in play here - however, this
          > > administration
          > > deliberately failed to contact parents to inform
          > > them that Mr.
          > > Butler had been placed on admin leave due to
          > > complaints by other
          > > students. Legally speaking, the action itself is not
          > > confidential,
          > > only the nature of the action. Mrs Rowsey did admit
          > > in the meeting
          > > that the school only made contact with the parents
          > > who filed
          > > complaints. It was obvious to me that all of the
          > > parents in
          > > attendance were somewhat stunned to hear that the
          > > school was
          > > formally aware of a problem with Mr. Butler, but
          > > deliberately chose
          > > not to inform every parent of each student affected!
          > > I sure was. And
          > > what about the rest of the parents? All of us have a
          > > right to know
          > > that there is a problem concerning our children.
          > > Sounds more like
          > > the school wants to keep this out of the public as
          > > much as they can.
          > > This is unacceptable behavior on the part of the
          > > administration. In
          > > any case, Dr. Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, and Mrs Magyary
          > > were very polite,
          > > but I know I walked away with absolutely no feeling
          > > that anything
          > > was going to be done, as I know most of the other
          > > parents did. Not
          > > one question was answered, except to to say that our
          > > concerns were
          > > noted. I have heard repeatedly that the
          > > administration has to be
          > > careful not to violate Mr. Butler's rights, but not
          > > one person has
          > > mentioned anything about the rights of our children.
          > > Mabey we should
          > > organize a trade union for the students so that
          > > their rights will be
          > > upheld as diligently as the teachers rights are.
          > >
          > > David
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
          > http://shopping.yahoo.com
        • davidds9
          Paul, Since I am not employed by the school district, so I am free to share any information that I come across. I understand the union contract, and I am not
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 1, 2003
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            Paul,
            Since I am not employed by the school district, so I am free to
            share any information that I come across. I understand the union
            contract, and I am not trying to sabotage Mr. Butler's rights, but I
            feel management could have and should have been more forthcoming to
            the parents on this issue. Again, no one is talking about the
            children's rights. The law says my child must attend public school,
            and I pay taxes, therefore the district has an obligation to ensure
            the safety and education of our children and to go out of it's way
            to contact parents any time there is a problem like this, not pick
            and choose who they will contact.

            David



            --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Sosa" <pauls@h...> wrote:
            > I have to agree with Charley Cowens. I understand the legal
            obligation which management may have regarding personnel privacy
            issues with union members, but I fail to see how that applies to
            parents sharing information. If the issues regarding Mr. Butler
            were discussed in a public meeting with 3rd party (the parents)
            participating, why can't those parents disclose the nature of what
            was discussed. Isn't it this kind of information that this forum
            was designed to share? Were those parents required to sign a non-
            disclosure agreement prior to attending the meeting?
            >
            > Paul
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Charley Cowens [mailto:c_cowens@y...]
            > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:43 PM
            > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Mr. Butler Meeting
            >
            >
            > David,
            >
            > Thanks for not divulging the substantive issue about
            > the particular teacher. Despite being really ticked
            > off, you're sticking to the public details. Now, I
            > have a question about one detail. Did the staff people
            > give a reason for not notifying the non-complaining
            > parents? It doesn't make it any more right or wrong,
            > but I'm curious to know if this is a
            > collective-bargaining-based procedural safequard for
            > the teacher or not.
            >
            > Charley Cowens
            >
            > --- davidds9 <davidds9@y...> wrote:
            > > I attended a meeting at Pinole Middle School on
            > > Monday, Sept 29th at
            > > 5pm, concerning the problems with Mr. Butler, the
            > > 8th grade science
            > > teacher there who has been suspended. In attendance
            > > were - Dr.
            > > Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, Mrs Magyary, and another
            > > gentleman whose name
            > > escapes me at the moment. Also in attendance were
            > > about 20 other
            > > parents of students who have heard complaints from
            > > their kids about
            > > Mr. Butler. First, I would like to thank Sonya
            > > Mitchell (kudos) for
            > > contacting me (and the other parents) to inform me
            > > that there was a
            > > meeting taking place on this matter. If not for her,
            > > this whole
            > > situation would have past me (and many other
            > > parents) by. Every
            > > parent there had children who had similar complaints
            > > about Mr.
            > > Butler as mine did, and some were even worse. One
            > > woman was so
            > > upset, that about 20 minutes into the meeting, she
            > > was so fed up
            > > with the lack of communication from the
            > > administration, she stormed
            > > out of the class room. I was under the impression
            > > that Dr. Cohen was
            > > going to address our concerns, but he had no
            > > intention of doing
            > > that. He did however take our complaints, but would
            > > not give us any
            > > of any indication of what we could expect to happen
            > > or when. I have
            > > been a union steward for 15 years so I understand
            > > the union
            > > regulations that are in play here - however, this
            > > administration
            > > deliberately failed to contact parents to inform
            > > them that Mr.
            > > Butler had been placed on admin leave due to
            > > complaints by other
            > > students. Legally speaking, the action itself is not
            > > confidential,
            > > only the nature of the action. Mrs Rowsey did admit
            > > in the meeting
            > > that the school only made contact with the parents
            > > who filed
            > > complaints. It was obvious to me that all of the
            > > parents in
            > > attendance were somewhat stunned to hear that the
            > > school was
            > > formally aware of a problem with Mr. Butler, but
            > > deliberately chose
            > > not to inform every parent of each student affected!
            > > I sure was. And
            > > what about the rest of the parents? All of us have a
            > > right to know
            > > that there is a problem concerning our children.
            > > Sounds more like
            > > the school wants to keep this out of the public as
            > > much as they can.
            > > This is unacceptable behavior on the part of the
            > > administration. In
            > > any case, Dr. Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, and Mrs Magyary
            > > were very polite,
            > > but I know I walked away with absolutely no feeling
            > > that anything
            > > was going to be done, as I know most of the other
            > > parents did. Not
            > > one question was answered, except to to say that our
            > > concerns were
            > > noted. I have heard repeatedly that the
            > > administration has to be
            > > careful not to violate Mr. Butler's rights, but not
            > > one person has
            > > mentioned anything about the rights of our children.
            > > Mabey we should
            > > organize a trade union for the students so that
            > > their rights will be
            > > upheld as diligently as the teachers rights are.
            > >
            > > David
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
            > http://shopping.yahoo.com
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > wccusdtalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • Paul Sosa
            I agree with you. Management should be forthcoming to the parents. My problem is I don t know . I m not a parent of any student in Pinole Middle School,
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 1, 2003
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              I agree with you. Management should be forthcoming to the parents. My problem is "I don't know". I'm not a parent of any student in Pinole Middle School, but I do have a daughter in WCCUSD, it would concern me that a teacher was "disciplined" and "put on administrative leave". Without any further information, I would be concerned and very worried. Does he pose any danger to other students? now or in the future? Could he transfer elsewhere in the district? I think many parents get apprehensive because of lack of information or the perception of management to hide information. This whole issue with Mr. Butler may be nothing to worry about, but when it is brought up half-hearted and natural questions (of concern or curiosity) goes unanswered, what are parents to do? Do they simply ignore the issue and convince themselves that ignorance is bliss and continue the indifference this very forum is trying to eliminate.

              I'll admit that I'm totally ignorant to the Mr. Butler issue except for what was brought up in this e-mail group, but I now have to decide what would be my best assumption or ignore the whole issue. I could assume it was a minor administrative issue like Mr. Butler was frequently tardy to his own class. Or, I could assume some students are complaining about his grading policy. But, then again, I could also assume the worse and that he was involved in some sexual misconduct. Having two young daughters, the latter would concern me. But without further information or answers to many questions, false assumptions, paranoia and distrust will only follow.

              I understand your point regarding the lack of ability for management to inform and notify parents of current issues. With that said and since this issue was brought up in this forum, would someone tell me the nature of the Mr. Butler issue, and whether or not other parents in the district should be concerned?

              Paul

              -----Original Message-----
              From: davidds9 [mailto:davidds9@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 5:15 AM
              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Mr. Butler Meeting


              Paul,
              Since I am not employed by the school district, so I am free to
              share any information that I come across. I understand the union
              contract, and I am not trying to sabotage Mr. Butler's rights, but I
              feel management could have and should have been more forthcoming to
              the parents on this issue. Again, no one is talking about the
              children's rights. The law says my child must attend public school,
              and I pay taxes, therefore the district has an obligation to ensure
              the safety and education of our children and to go out of it's way
              to contact parents any time there is a problem like this, not pick
              and choose who they will contact.

              David



              --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Sosa" <pauls@h...> wrote:
              > I have to agree with Charley Cowens. I understand the legal
              obligation which management may have regarding personnel privacy
              issues with union members, but I fail to see how that applies to
              parents sharing information. If the issues regarding Mr. Butler
              were discussed in a public meeting with 3rd party (the parents)
              participating, why can't those parents disclose the nature of what
              was discussed. Isn't it this kind of information that this forum
              was designed to share? Were those parents required to sign a non-
              disclosure agreement prior to attending the meeting?
              >
              > Paul
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Charley Cowens [mailto:c_cowens@y...]
              > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:43 PM
              > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Mr. Butler Meeting
              >
              >
              > David,
              >
              > Thanks for not divulging the substantive issue about
              > the particular teacher. Despite being really ticked
              > off, you're sticking to the public details. Now, I
              > have a question about one detail. Did the staff people
              > give a reason for not notifying the non-complaining
              > parents? It doesn't make it any more right or wrong,
              > but I'm curious to know if this is a
              > collective-bargaining-based procedural safequard for
              > the teacher or not.
              >
              > Charley Cowens
              >
              > --- davidds9 <davidds9@y...> wrote:
              > > I attended a meeting at Pinole Middle School on
              > > Monday, Sept 29th at
              > > 5pm, concerning the problems with Mr. Butler, the
              > > 8th grade science
              > > teacher there who has been suspended. In attendance
              > > were - Dr.
              > > Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, Mrs Magyary, and another
              > > gentleman whose name
              > > escapes me at the moment. Also in attendance were
              > > about 20 other
              > > parents of students who have heard complaints from
              > > their kids about
              > > Mr. Butler. First, I would like to thank Sonya
              > > Mitchell (kudos) for
              > > contacting me (and the other parents) to inform me
              > > that there was a
              > > meeting taking place on this matter. If not for her,
              > > this whole
              > > situation would have past me (and many other
              > > parents) by. Every
              > > parent there had children who had similar complaints
              > > about Mr.
              > > Butler as mine did, and some were even worse. One
              > > woman was so
              > > upset, that about 20 minutes into the meeting, she
              > > was so fed up
              > > with the lack of communication from the
              > > administration, she stormed
              > > out of the class room. I was under the impression
              > > that Dr. Cohen was
              > > going to address our concerns, but he had no
              > > intention of doing
              > > that. He did however take our complaints, but would
              > > not give us any
              > > of any indication of what we could expect to happen
              > > or when. I have
              > > been a union steward for 15 years so I understand
              > > the union
              > > regulations that are in play here - however, this
              > > administration
              > > deliberately failed to contact parents to inform
              > > them that Mr.
              > > Butler had been placed on admin leave due to
              > > complaints by other
              > > students. Legally speaking, the action itself is not
              > > confidential,
              > > only the nature of the action. Mrs Rowsey did admit
              > > in the meeting
              > > that the school only made contact with the parents
              > > who filed
              > > complaints. It was obvious to me that all of the
              > > parents in
              > > attendance were somewhat stunned to hear that the
              > > school was
              > > formally aware of a problem with Mr. Butler, but
              > > deliberately chose
              > > not to inform every parent of each student affected!
              > > I sure was. And
              > > what about the rest of the parents? All of us have a
              > > right to know
              > > that there is a problem concerning our children.
              > > Sounds more like
              > > the school wants to keep this out of the public as
              > > much as they can.
              > > This is unacceptable behavior on the part of the
              > > administration. In
              > > any case, Dr. Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, and Mrs Magyary
              > > were very polite,
              > > but I know I walked away with absolutely no feeling
              > > that anything
              > > was going to be done, as I know most of the other
              > > parents did. Not
              > > one question was answered, except to to say that our
              > > concerns were
              > > noted. I have heard repeatedly that the
              > > administration has to be
              > > careful not to violate Mr. Butler's rights, but not
              > > one person has
              > > mentioned anything about the rights of our children.
              > > Mabey we should
              > > organize a trade union for the students so that
              > > their rights will be
              > > upheld as diligently as the teachers rights are.
              > >
              > > David
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
              > http://shopping.yahoo.com
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            • rcs101@att.net
              --Hello all: It is very sad to hear about the kids having to deal with Mr. Butler. But I am happy that some parents are on their job and has enlightened the
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 1, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                --Hello all:

                It is very sad to hear about the kids having to deal with Mr. Butler. But I
                am happy that some parents are on their job and has enlightened the rest of
                us. I would like to know how long has Mr. Butler been in this district and
                how many complaints has he had. Is it true that he had been around for about
                11 years and came from Oakland? Also, I would like to know if anyone knows
                why he left Oakland? Another point, did Ms. Rowsey inherited this problem as
                I have heard, and has done all she could to start the ball rolling to get him
                out.

                If there is a history of complaints about Mr. Butler, why has it taken so
                long for the district to do anything? The bottom line is the students and the
                safeguards that are in place to protect them. It appears they have been
                lacking if what I have heard is true.

                Scottie Smith


                > Paul,
                > Since I am not employed by the school district, so I am free to
                > share any information that I come across. I understand the union
                > contract, and I am not trying to sabotage Mr. Butler's rights, but I
                > feel management could have and should have been more forthcoming to
                > the parents on this issue. Again, no one is talking about the
                > children's rights. The law says my child must attend public school,
                > and I pay taxes, therefore the district has an obligation to ensure
                > the safety and education of our children and to go out of it's way
                > to contact parents any time there is a problem like this, not pick
                > and choose who they will contact.
                >
                > David
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Sosa" <pauls@h...> wrote:
                > > I have to agree with Charley Cowens. I understand the legal
                > obligation which management may have regarding personnel privacy
                > issues with union members, but I fail to see how that applies to
                > parents sharing information. If the issues regarding Mr. Butler
                > were discussed in a public meeting with 3rd party (the parents)
                > participating, why can't those parents disclose the nature of what
                > was discussed. Isn't it this kind of information that this forum
                > was designed to share? Were those parents required to sign a non-
                > disclosure agreement prior to attending the meeting?
                > >
                > > Paul
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: Charley Cowens [mailto:c_cowens@y...]
                > > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:43 PM
                > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Mr. Butler Meeting
                > >
                > >
                > > David,
                > >
                > > Thanks for not divulging the substantive issue about
                > > the particular teacher. Despite being really ticked
                > > off, you're sticking to the public details. Now, I
                > > have a question about one detail. Did the staff people
                > > give a reason for not notifying the non-complaining
                > > parents? It doesn't make it any more right or wrong,
                > > but I'm curious to know if this is a
                > > collective-bargaining-based procedural safequard for
                > > the teacher or not.
                > >
                > > Charley Cowens
                > >
                > > --- davidds9 <davidds9@y...> wrote:
                > > > I attended a meeting at Pinole Middle School on
                > > > Monday, Sept 29th at
                > > > 5pm, concerning the problems with Mr. Butler, the
                > > > 8th grade science
                > > > teacher there who has been suspended. In attendance
                > > > were - Dr.
                > > > Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, Mrs Magyary, and another
                > > > gentleman whose name
                > > > escapes me at the moment. Also in attendance were
                > > > about 20 other
                > > > parents of students who have heard complaints from
                > > > their kids about
                > > > Mr. Butler. First, I would like to thank Sonya
                > > > Mitchell (kudos) for
                > > > contacting me (and the other parents) to inform me
                > > > that there was a
                > > > meeting taking place on this matter. If not for her,
                > > > this whole
                > > > situation would have past me (and many other
                > > > parents) by. Every
                > > > parent there had children who had similar complaints
                > > > about Mr.
                > > > Butler as mine did, and some were even worse. One
                > > > woman was so
                > > > upset, that about 20 minutes into the meeting, she
                > > > was so fed up
                > > > with the lack of communication from the
                > > > administration, she stormed
                > > > out of the class room. I was under the impression
                > > > that Dr. Cohen was
                > > > going to address our concerns, but he had no
                > > > intention of doing
                > > > that. He did however take our complaints, but would
                > > > not give us any
                > > > of any indication of what we could expect to happen
                > > > or when. I have
                > > > been a union steward for 15 years so I understand
                > > > the union
                > > > regulations that are in play here - however, this
                > > > administration
                > > > deliberately failed to contact parents to inform
                > > > them that Mr.
                > > > Butler had been placed on admin leave due to
                > > > complaints by other
                > > > students. Legally speaking, the action itself is not
                > > > confidential,
                > > > only the nature of the action. Mrs Rowsey did admit
                > > > in the meeting
                > > > that the school only made contact with the parents
                > > > who filed
                > > > complaints. It was obvious to me that all of the
                > > > parents in
                > > > attendance were somewhat stunned to hear that the
                > > > school was
                > > > formally aware of a problem with Mr. Butler, but
                > > > deliberately chose
                > > > not to inform every parent of each student affected!
                > > > I sure was. And
                > > > what about the rest of the parents? All of us have a
                > > > right to know
                > > > that there is a problem concerning our children.
                > > > Sounds more like
                > > > the school wants to keep this out of the public as
                > > > much as they can.
                > > > This is unacceptable behavior on the part of the
                > > > administration. In
                > > > any case, Dr. Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, and Mrs Magyary
                > > > were very polite,
                > > > but I know I walked away with absolutely no feeling
                > > > that anything
                > > > was going to be done, as I know most of the other
                > > > parents did. Not
                > > > one question was answered, except to to say that our
                > > > concerns were
                > > > noted. I have heard repeatedly that the
                > > > administration has to be
                > > > careful not to violate Mr. Butler's rights, but not
                > > > one person has
                > > > mentioned anything about the rights of our children.
                > > > Mabey we should
                > > > organize a trade union for the students so that
                > > > their rights will be
                > > > upheld as diligently as the teachers rights are.
                > > >
                > > > David
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > > __________________________________
                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
                > > http://shopping.yahoo.com
                > >
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > wccusdtalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > wccusdtalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • Charley Cowens
                David- Thanks for answering my question. I m not really speaking about anyone s rights. I m just trying to get the facts straight. Charley Cowens ...
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 1, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  David-

                  Thanks for answering my question. I'm not really
                  speaking about anyone's rights. I'm just trying to get
                  the facts straight.

                  Charley Cowens

                  --- davidds9 <davidds9@...> wrote:
                  > Charley,
                  > I asked Mrs Rowsey why all parents were not
                  > contacted and she stated
                  > that there were too many parents and that she said
                  > something to the
                  > effect that she didn't have the time. She didn't
                  > cite anything about
                  > any collective bargaining issues. Again, we only
                  > seem to be speaking
                  > about the teachers rights, why aren't we talking
                  > about the
                  > children's rights?
                  >
                  > David
                  >
                  > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Charley Cowens
                  > <c_cowens@y...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > David,
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for not divulging the substantive issue
                  > about
                  > > the particular teacher. Despite being really
                  > ticked
                  > > off, you're sticking to the public details. Now, I
                  > > have a question about one detail. Did the staff
                  > people
                  > > give a reason for not notifying the
                  > non-complaining
                  > > parents? It doesn't make it any more right or
                  > wrong,
                  > > but I'm curious to know if this is a
                  > > collective-bargaining-based procedural safequard
                  > for
                  > > the teacher or not.
                  > >
                  > > Charley Cowens
                  > >
                  > > --- davidds9 <davidds9@y...> wrote:
                  > > > I attended a meeting at Pinole Middle School on
                  > > > Monday, Sept 29th at
                  > > > 5pm, concerning the problems with Mr. Butler,
                  > the
                  > > > 8th grade science
                  > > > teacher there who has been suspended. In
                  > attendance
                  > > > were - Dr.
                  > > > Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, Mrs Magyary, and another
                  > > > gentleman whose name
                  > > > escapes me at the moment. Also in attendance
                  > were
                  > > > about 20 other
                  > > > parents of students who have heard complaints
                  > from
                  > > > their kids about
                  > > > Mr. Butler. First, I would like to thank Sonya
                  > > > Mitchell (kudos) for
                  > > > contacting me (and the other parents) to inform
                  > me
                  > > > that there was a
                  > > > meeting taking place on this matter. If not for
                  > her,
                  > > > this whole
                  > > > situation would have past me (and many other
                  > > > parents) by. Every
                  > > > parent there had children who had similar
                  > complaints
                  > > > about Mr.
                  > > > Butler as mine did, and some were even worse.
                  > One
                  > > > woman was so
                  > > > upset, that about 20 minutes into the meeting,
                  > she
                  > > > was so fed up
                  > > > with the lack of communication from the
                  > > > administration, she stormed
                  > > > out of the class room. I was under the
                  > impression
                  > > > that Dr. Cohen was
                  > > > going to address our concerns, but he had no
                  > > > intention of doing
                  > > > that. He did however take our complaints, but
                  > would
                  > > > not give us any
                  > > > of any indication of what we could expect to
                  > happen
                  > > > or when. I have
                  > > > been a union steward for 15 years so I
                  > understand
                  > > > the union
                  > > > regulations that are in play here - however,
                  > this
                  > > > administration
                  > > > deliberately failed to contact parents to inform
                  > > > them that Mr.
                  > > > Butler had been placed on admin leave due to
                  > > > complaints by other
                  > > > students. Legally speaking, the action itself is
                  > not
                  > > > confidential,
                  > > > only the nature of the action. Mrs Rowsey did
                  > admit
                  > > > in the meeting
                  > > > that the school only made contact with the
                  > parents
                  > > > who filed
                  > > > complaints. It was obvious to me that all of the
                  > > > parents in
                  > > > attendance were somewhat stunned to hear that
                  > the
                  > > > school was
                  > > > formally aware of a problem with Mr. Butler, but
                  > > > deliberately chose
                  > > > not to inform every parent of each student
                  > affected!
                  > > > I sure was. And
                  > > > what about the rest of the parents? All of us
                  > have a
                  > > > right to know
                  > > > that there is a problem concerning our children.
                  > > > Sounds more like
                  > > > the school wants to keep this out of the public
                  > as
                  > > > much as they can.
                  > > > This is unacceptable behavior on the part of the
                  > > > administration. In
                  > > > any case, Dr. Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, and Mrs Magyary
                  > > > were very polite,
                  > > > but I know I walked away with absolutely no
                  > feeling
                  > > > that anything
                  > > > was going to be done, as I know most of the
                  > other
                  > > > parents did. Not
                  > > > one question was answered, except to to say that
                  > our
                  > > > concerns were
                  > > > noted. I have heard repeatedly that the
                  > > > administration has to be
                  > > > careful not to violate Mr. Butler's rights, but
                  > not
                  > > > one person has
                  > > > mentioned anything about the rights of our
                  > children.
                  > > > Mabey we should
                  > > > organize a trade union for the students so that
                  > > > their rights will be
                  > > > upheld as diligently as the teachers rights are.
                  > > >
                  > > > David
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > __________________________________
                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product
                  > search
                  > > http://shopping.yahoo.com
                  >
                  >


                  __________________________________
                  Do you Yahoo!?
                  The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
                  http://shopping.yahoo.com
                • davidds9
                  Paul, All I can tell you is what my son has complained to me about Mr. Butler. The problem seems to be that Mr. Butler has been unfairly harsh with my son in
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 1, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Paul,
                    All I can tell you is what my son has complained to me about Mr.
                    Butler. The problem seems to be that Mr. Butler has been unfairly
                    harsh with my son in the way he conducts himself in class, to the
                    point that my son found it extremely difficult to accomplish
                    anything. I heard similar complaints in the meeting from every other
                    parent with kids in his class. And not all parents showed up for
                    that meeting so the law of averages says there are most likely more
                    we have not heard from yet. I hope that the parents who read this
                    pass this information on to other parents.

                    David

                    --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Sosa" <pauls@h...> wrote:
                    > I agree with you. Management should be forthcoming to the
                    parents. My problem is "I don't know". I'm not a parent of any
                    student in Pinole Middle School, but I do have a daughter in WCCUSD,
                    it would concern me that a teacher was "disciplined" and "put on
                    administrative leave". Without any further information, I would be
                    concerned and very worried. Does he pose any danger to other
                    students? now or in the future? Could he transfer elsewhere in the
                    district? I think many parents get apprehensive because of lack of
                    information or the perception of management to hide information.
                    This whole issue with Mr. Butler may be nothing to worry about, but
                    when it is brought up half-hearted and natural questions (of concern
                    or curiosity) goes unanswered, what are parents to do? Do they
                    simply ignore the issue and convince themselves that ignorance is
                    bliss and continue the indifference this very forum is trying to
                    eliminate.
                    >
                    > I'll admit that I'm totally ignorant to the Mr. Butler issue
                    except for what was brought up in this e-mail group, but I now have
                    to decide what would be my best assumption or ignore the whole
                    issue. I could assume it was a minor administrative issue like Mr.
                    Butler was frequently tardy to his own class. Or, I could assume
                    some students are complaining about his grading policy. But, then
                    again, I could also assume the worse and that he was involved in
                    some sexual misconduct. Having two young daughters, the latter
                    would concern me. But without further information or answers to
                    many questions, false assumptions, paranoia and distrust will only
                    follow.
                    >
                    > I understand your point regarding the lack of ability for
                    management to inform and notify parents of current issues. With
                    that said and since this issue was brought up in this forum, would
                    someone tell me the nature of the Mr. Butler issue, and whether or
                    not other parents in the district should be concerned?
                    >
                    > Paul
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: davidds9 [mailto:davidds9@y...]
                    > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 5:15 AM
                    > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Mr. Butler Meeting
                    >
                    >
                    > Paul,
                    > Since I am not employed by the school district, so I am free to
                    > share any information that I come across. I understand the union
                    > contract, and I am not trying to sabotage Mr. Butler's rights, but
                    I
                    > feel management could have and should have been more forthcoming
                    to
                    > the parents on this issue. Again, no one is talking about the
                    > children's rights. The law says my child must attend public
                    school,
                    > and I pay taxes, therefore the district has an obligation to
                    ensure
                    > the safety and education of our children and to go out of it's way
                    > to contact parents any time there is a problem like this, not pick
                    > and choose who they will contact.
                    >
                    > David
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Sosa" <pauls@h...> wrote:
                    > > I have to agree with Charley Cowens. I understand the legal
                    > obligation which management may have regarding personnel privacy
                    > issues with union members, but I fail to see how that applies to
                    > parents sharing information. If the issues regarding Mr. Butler
                    > were discussed in a public meeting with 3rd party (the parents)
                    > participating, why can't those parents disclose the nature of what
                    > was discussed. Isn't it this kind of information that this forum
                    > was designed to share? Were those parents required to sign a non-
                    > disclosure agreement prior to attending the meeting?
                    > >
                    > > Paul
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: Charley Cowens [mailto:c_cowens@y...]
                    > > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:43 PM
                    > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Mr. Butler Meeting
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > David,
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for not divulging the substantive issue about
                    > > the particular teacher. Despite being really ticked
                    > > off, you're sticking to the public details. Now, I
                    > > have a question about one detail. Did the staff people
                    > > give a reason for not notifying the non-complaining
                    > > parents? It doesn't make it any more right or wrong,
                    > > but I'm curious to know if this is a
                    > > collective-bargaining-based procedural safequard for
                    > > the teacher or not.
                    > >
                    > > Charley Cowens
                    > >
                    > > --- davidds9 <davidds9@y...> wrote:
                    > > > I attended a meeting at Pinole Middle School on
                    > > > Monday, Sept 29th at
                    > > > 5pm, concerning the problems with Mr. Butler, the
                    > > > 8th grade science
                    > > > teacher there who has been suspended. In attendance
                    > > > were - Dr.
                    > > > Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, Mrs Magyary, and another
                    > > > gentleman whose name
                    > > > escapes me at the moment. Also in attendance were
                    > > > about 20 other
                    > > > parents of students who have heard complaints from
                    > > > their kids about
                    > > > Mr. Butler. First, I would like to thank Sonya
                    > > > Mitchell (kudos) for
                    > > > contacting me (and the other parents) to inform me
                    > > > that there was a
                    > > > meeting taking place on this matter. If not for her,
                    > > > this whole
                    > > > situation would have past me (and many other
                    > > > parents) by. Every
                    > > > parent there had children who had similar complaints
                    > > > about Mr.
                    > > > Butler as mine did, and some were even worse. One
                    > > > woman was so
                    > > > upset, that about 20 minutes into the meeting, she
                    > > > was so fed up
                    > > > with the lack of communication from the
                    > > > administration, she stormed
                    > > > out of the class room. I was under the impression
                    > > > that Dr. Cohen was
                    > > > going to address our concerns, but he had no
                    > > > intention of doing
                    > > > that. He did however take our complaints, but would
                    > > > not give us any
                    > > > of any indication of what we could expect to happen
                    > > > or when. I have
                    > > > been a union steward for 15 years so I understand
                    > > > the union
                    > > > regulations that are in play here - however, this
                    > > > administration
                    > > > deliberately failed to contact parents to inform
                    > > > them that Mr.
                    > > > Butler had been placed on admin leave due to
                    > > > complaints by other
                    > > > students. Legally speaking, the action itself is not
                    > > > confidential,
                    > > > only the nature of the action. Mrs Rowsey did admit
                    > > > in the meeting
                    > > > that the school only made contact with the parents
                    > > > who filed
                    > > > complaints. It was obvious to me that all of the
                    > > > parents in
                    > > > attendance were somewhat stunned to hear that the
                    > > > school was
                    > > > formally aware of a problem with Mr. Butler, but
                    > > > deliberately chose
                    > > > not to inform every parent of each student affected!
                    > > > I sure was. And
                    > > > what about the rest of the parents? All of us have a
                    > > > right to know
                    > > > that there is a problem concerning our children.
                    > > > Sounds more like
                    > > > the school wants to keep this out of the public as
                    > > > much as they can.
                    > > > This is unacceptable behavior on the part of the
                    > > > administration. In
                    > > > any case, Dr. Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, and Mrs Magyary
                    > > > were very polite,
                    > > > but I know I walked away with absolutely no feeling
                    > > > that anything
                    > > > was going to be done, as I know most of the other
                    > > > parents did. Not
                    > > > one question was answered, except to to say that our
                    > > > concerns were
                    > > > noted. I have heard repeatedly that the
                    > > > administration has to be
                    > > > careful not to violate Mr. Butler's rights, but not
                    > > > one person has
                    > > > mentioned anything about the rights of our children.
                    > > > Mabey we should
                    > > > organize a trade union for the students so that
                    > > > their rights will be
                    > > > upheld as diligently as the teachers rights are.
                    > > >
                    > > > David
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > __________________________________
                    > > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
                    > > http://shopping.yahoo.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > wccusdtalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > wccusdtalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • David DeSilva
                    Scottie, Since the administration is not talking, there is nothing but rumors and what our kids are telling us going around. Seems you have heard what I have
                    Message 9 of 14 , Oct 1, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Scottie,

                      Since the administration is not talking, there is nothing but rumors and what our kids are telling us going around. Seems you have heard what I have heard, but the rumors are just that, rumors, without management saying anything.

                      David

                      rcs101@... wrote:


                      --Hello all:

                      It is very sad to hear about the kids having to deal with Mr. Butler. But I
                      am happy that some parents are on their job and has enlightened the rest of
                      us. I would like to know how long has Mr. Butler been in this district and
                      how many complaints has he had. Is it true that he had been around for about
                      11 years and came from Oakland? Also, I would like to know if anyone knows
                      why he left Oakland? Another point, did Ms. Rowsey inherited this problem as
                      I have heard, and has done all she could to start the ball rolling to get him
                      out.

                      If there is a history of complaints about Mr. Butler, why has it taken so
                      long for the district to do anything? The bottom line is the students and the
                      safeguards that are in place to protect them. It appears they have been
                      lacking if what I have heard is true.

                      Scottie Smith


                      > Paul,
                      > Since I am not employed by the school district, so I am free to
                      > share any information that I come across. I understand the union
                      > contract, and I am not trying to sabotage Mr. Butler's rights, but I
                      > feel management could have and should have been more forthcoming to
                      > the parents on this issue. Again, no one is talking about the
                      > children's rights. The law says my child must attend public school,
                      > and I pay taxes, therefore the district has an obligation to ensure
                      > the safety and education of our children and to go out of it's way
                      > to contact parents any time there is a problem like this, not pick
                      > and choose who they will contact.
                      >
                      > David
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Sosa" <pauls@h...> wrote:
                      > > I have to agree with Charley Cowens. I understand the legal
                      > obligation which management may have regarding personnel privacy
                      > issues with union members, but I fail to see how that applies to
                      > parents sharing information. If the issues regarding Mr. Butler
                      > were discussed in a public meeting with 3rd party (the parents)
                      > participating, why can't those parents disclose the nature of what
                      > was discussed. Isn't it this kind of information that this forum
                      > was designed to share? Were those parents required to sign a non-
                      > disclosure agreement prior to attending the meeting?
                      > >
                      > > Paul
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: Charley Cowens [mailto:c_cowens@y...]
                      > > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:43 PM
                      > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Mr. Butler Meeting
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > David,
                      > >
                      > > Thanks for not divulging the substantive issue about
                      > > the particular teacher. Despite being really ticked
                      > > off, you're sticking to the public details. Now, I
                      > > have a question about one detail. Did the staff people
                      > > give a reason for not notifying the non-complaining
                      > > parents? It doesn't make it any more right or wrong,
                      > > but I'm curious to know if this is a
                      > > collective-bargaining-based procedural safequard for
                      > > the teacher or not.
                      > >
                      > > Charley Cowens
                      > >
                      > > --- davidds9 <davidds9@y...> wrote:
                      > > > I attended a meeting at Pinole Middle School on
                      > > > Monday, Sept 29th at
                      > > > 5pm, concerning the problems with Mr. Butler, the
                      > > > 8th grade science
                      > > > teacher there who has been suspended. In attendance
                      > > > were - Dr.
                      > > > Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, Mrs Magyary, and another
                      > > > gentleman whose name
                      > > > escapes me at the moment. Also in attendance were
                      > > > about 20 other
                      > > > parents of students who have heard complaints from
                      > > > their kids about
                      > > > Mr. Butler. First, I would like to thank Sonya
                      > > > Mitchell (kudos) for
                      > > > contacting me (and the other parents) to inform me
                      > > > that there was a
                      > > > meeting taking place on this matter. If not for her,
                      > > > this whole
                      > > > situation would have past me (and many other
                      > > > parents) by. Every
                      > > > parent there had children who had similar complaints
                      > > > about Mr.
                      > > > Butler as mine did, and some were even worse. One
                      > > > woman was so
                      > > > upset, that about 20 minutes into the meeting, she
                      > > > was so fed up
                      > > > with the lack of communication from the
                      > > > administration, she stormed
                      > > > out of the class room. I was under the impression
                      > > > that Dr. Cohen was
                      > > > going to address our concerns, but he had no
                      > > > intention of doing
                      > > > that. He did however take our complaints, but would
                      > > > not give us any
                      > > > of any indication of what we could expect to happen
                      > > > or when. I have
                      > > > been a union steward for 15 years so I understand
                      > > > the union
                      > > > regulations that are in play here - however, this
                      > > > administration
                      > > > deliberately failed to contact parents to inform
                      > > > them that Mr.
                      > > > Butler had been placed on admin leave due to
                      > > > complaints by other
                      > > > students. Legally speaking, the action itself is not
                      > > > confidential,
                      > > > only the nature of the action. Mrs Rowsey did admit
                      > > > in the meeting
                      > > > that the school only made contact with the parents
                      > > > who filed
                      > > > complaints. It was obvious to me that all of the
                      > > > parents in
                      > > > attendance were somewhat stunned to hear that the
                      > > > school was
                      > > > formally aware of a problem with Mr. Butler, but
                      > > > deliberately chose
                      > > > not to inform every parent of each student affected!
                      > > > I sure was. And
                      > > > what about the rest of the parents? All of us have a
                      > > > right to know
                      > > > that there is a problem concerning our children.
                      > > > Sounds more like
                      > > > the school wants to keep this out of the public as
                      > > > much as they can.
                      > > > This is unacceptable behavior on the part of the
                      > > > administration. In
                      > > > any case, Dr. Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, and Mrs Magyary
                      > > > were very polite,
                      > > > but I know I walked away with absolutely no feeling
                      > > > that anything
                      > > > was going to be done, as I know most of the other
                      > > > parents did. Not
                      > > > one question was answered, except to to say that our
                      > > > concerns were
                      > > > noted. I have heard repeatedly that the
                      > > > administration has to be
                      > > > careful not to violate Mr. Butler's rights, but not
                      > > > one person has
                      > > > mentioned anything about the rights of our children.
                      > > > Mabey we should
                      > > > organize a trade union for the students so that
                      > > > their rights will be
                      > > > upheld as diligently as the teachers rights are.
                      > > >
                      > > > David
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > __________________________________
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                    • Paul Sosa
                      David, Thanks for the info. Paul ... From: davidds9 [mailto:davidds9@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:52 PM To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                      Message 10 of 14 , Oct 2, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        David,
                        Thanks for the info.

                        Paul

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: davidds9 [mailto:davidds9@...]
                        Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:52 PM
                        To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Mr. Butler Meeting


                        Paul,
                        All I can tell you is what my son has complained to me about Mr.
                        Butler. The problem seems to be that Mr. Butler has been unfairly
                        harsh with my son in the way he conducts himself in class, to the
                        point that my son found it extremely difficult to accomplish
                        anything. I heard similar complaints in the meeting from every other
                        parent with kids in his class. And not all parents showed up for
                        that meeting so the law of averages says there are most likely more
                        we have not heard from yet. I hope that the parents who read this
                        pass this information on to other parents.

                        David

                        --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Sosa" <pauls@h...> wrote:
                        > I agree with you. Management should be forthcoming to the
                        parents. My problem is "I don't know". I'm not a parent of any
                        student in Pinole Middle School, but I do have a daughter in WCCUSD,
                        it would concern me that a teacher was "disciplined" and "put on
                        administrative leave". Without any further information, I would be
                        concerned and very worried. Does he pose any danger to other
                        students? now or in the future? Could he transfer elsewhere in the
                        district? I think many parents get apprehensive because of lack of
                        information or the perception of management to hide information.
                        This whole issue with Mr. Butler may be nothing to worry about, but
                        when it is brought up half-hearted and natural questions (of concern
                        or curiosity) goes unanswered, what are parents to do? Do they
                        simply ignore the issue and convince themselves that ignorance is
                        bliss and continue the indifference this very forum is trying to
                        eliminate.
                        >
                        > I'll admit that I'm totally ignorant to the Mr. Butler issue
                        except for what was brought up in this e-mail group, but I now have
                        to decide what would be my best assumption or ignore the whole
                        issue. I could assume it was a minor administrative issue like Mr.
                        Butler was frequently tardy to his own class. Or, I could assume
                        some students are complaining about his grading policy. But, then
                        again, I could also assume the worse and that he was involved in
                        some sexual misconduct. Having two young daughters, the latter
                        would concern me. But without further information or answers to
                        many questions, false assumptions, paranoia and distrust will only
                        follow.
                        >
                        > I understand your point regarding the lack of ability for
                        management to inform and notify parents of current issues. With
                        that said and since this issue was brought up in this forum, would
                        someone tell me the nature of the Mr. Butler issue, and whether or
                        not other parents in the district should be concerned?
                        >
                        > Paul
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: davidds9 [mailto:davidds9@y...]
                        > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 5:15 AM
                        > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Mr. Butler Meeting
                        >
                        >
                        > Paul,
                        > Since I am not employed by the school district, so I am free to
                        > share any information that I come across. I understand the union
                        > contract, and I am not trying to sabotage Mr. Butler's rights, but
                        I
                        > feel management could have and should have been more forthcoming
                        to
                        > the parents on this issue. Again, no one is talking about the
                        > children's rights. The law says my child must attend public
                        school,
                        > and I pay taxes, therefore the district has an obligation to
                        ensure
                        > the safety and education of our children and to go out of it's way
                        > to contact parents any time there is a problem like this, not pick
                        > and choose who they will contact.
                        >
                        > David
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Sosa" <pauls@h...> wrote:
                        > > I have to agree with Charley Cowens. I understand the legal
                        > obligation which management may have regarding personnel privacy
                        > issues with union members, but I fail to see how that applies to
                        > parents sharing information. If the issues regarding Mr. Butler
                        > were discussed in a public meeting with 3rd party (the parents)
                        > participating, why can't those parents disclose the nature of what
                        > was discussed. Isn't it this kind of information that this forum
                        > was designed to share? Were those parents required to sign a non-
                        > disclosure agreement prior to attending the meeting?
                        > >
                        > > Paul
                        > >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: Charley Cowens [mailto:c_cowens@y...]
                        > > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:43 PM
                        > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Mr. Butler Meeting
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > David,
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for not divulging the substantive issue about
                        > > the particular teacher. Despite being really ticked
                        > > off, you're sticking to the public details. Now, I
                        > > have a question about one detail. Did the staff people
                        > > give a reason for not notifying the non-complaining
                        > > parents? It doesn't make it any more right or wrong,
                        > > but I'm curious to know if this is a
                        > > collective-bargaining-based procedural safequard for
                        > > the teacher or not.
                        > >
                        > > Charley Cowens
                        > >
                        > > --- davidds9 <davidds9@y...> wrote:
                        > > > I attended a meeting at Pinole Middle School on
                        > > > Monday, Sept 29th at
                        > > > 5pm, concerning the problems with Mr. Butler, the
                        > > > 8th grade science
                        > > > teacher there who has been suspended. In attendance
                        > > > were - Dr.
                        > > > Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, Mrs Magyary, and another
                        > > > gentleman whose name
                        > > > escapes me at the moment. Also in attendance were
                        > > > about 20 other
                        > > > parents of students who have heard complaints from
                        > > > their kids about
                        > > > Mr. Butler. First, I would like to thank Sonya
                        > > > Mitchell (kudos) for
                        > > > contacting me (and the other parents) to inform me
                        > > > that there was a
                        > > > meeting taking place on this matter. If not for her,
                        > > > this whole
                        > > > situation would have past me (and many other
                        > > > parents) by. Every
                        > > > parent there had children who had similar complaints
                        > > > about Mr.
                        > > > Butler as mine did, and some were even worse. One
                        > > > woman was so
                        > > > upset, that about 20 minutes into the meeting, she
                        > > > was so fed up
                        > > > with the lack of communication from the
                        > > > administration, she stormed
                        > > > out of the class room. I was under the impression
                        > > > that Dr. Cohen was
                        > > > going to address our concerns, but he had no
                        > > > intention of doing
                        > > > that. He did however take our complaints, but would
                        > > > not give us any
                        > > > of any indication of what we could expect to happen
                        > > > or when. I have
                        > > > been a union steward for 15 years so I understand
                        > > > the union
                        > > > regulations that are in play here - however, this
                        > > > administration
                        > > > deliberately failed to contact parents to inform
                        > > > them that Mr.
                        > > > Butler had been placed on admin leave due to
                        > > > complaints by other
                        > > > students. Legally speaking, the action itself is not
                        > > > confidential,
                        > > > only the nature of the action. Mrs Rowsey did admit
                        > > > in the meeting
                        > > > that the school only made contact with the parents
                        > > > who filed
                        > > > complaints. It was obvious to me that all of the
                        > > > parents in
                        > > > attendance were somewhat stunned to hear that the
                        > > > school was
                        > > > formally aware of a problem with Mr. Butler, but
                        > > > deliberately chose
                        > > > not to inform every parent of each student affected!
                        > > > I sure was. And
                        > > > what about the rest of the parents? All of us have a
                        > > > right to know
                        > > > that there is a problem concerning our children.
                        > > > Sounds more like
                        > > > the school wants to keep this out of the public as
                        > > > much as they can.
                        > > > This is unacceptable behavior on the part of the
                        > > > administration. In
                        > > > any case, Dr. Cohen, Mrs Rowsey, and Mrs Magyary
                        > > > were very polite,
                        > > > but I know I walked away with absolutely no feeling
                        > > > that anything
                        > > > was going to be done, as I know most of the other
                        > > > parents did. Not
                        > > > one question was answered, except to to say that our
                        > > > concerns were
                        > > > noted. I have heard repeatedly that the
                        > > > administration has to be
                        > > > careful not to violate Mr. Butler's rights, but not
                        > > > one person has
                        > > > mentioned anything about the rights of our children.
                        > > > Mabey we should
                        > > > organize a trade union for the students so that
                        > > > their rights will be
                        > > > upheld as diligently as the teachers rights are.
                        > > >
                        > > > David
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > __________________________________
                        > > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
                        > > http://shopping.yahoo.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > wccusdtalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > wccusdtalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                      • SarahCreeley@aol.com
                        If I had made a complaint about a teacher s misbehavior and a disciplinary response was the result, I would want to be informed. If you are aware of a teacher
                        Message 11 of 14 , Oct 2, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          If I had made a complaint about a teacher's misbehavior and a disciplinary
                          response was the result, I would want to be informed. If you are aware of a
                          teacher misbehaving, in a serious, hurtful manner, and you report it, isn't it
                          natural to then ask, "What happened?, How are you responding to this?, What are
                          you doing about this?". The parents of the students who complained should have
                          been notified about the action toward the teacher, at the very least.
                          LOVE,
                          Sarah


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • davidds9
                          Sarah, Unfortunately, the teachers union is fairly strong and if the school district were to disclose what action they were planning to take against a teacher,
                          Message 12 of 14 , Oct 2, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Sarah,
                            Unfortunately, the teachers union is fairly strong and if the school
                            district were to disclose what action they were planning to take
                            against a teacher, they would be in alot of hot water. That said, I
                            don't see how teachers rights out weigh childrens rights. It's one
                            thing to compare adults to adults, but if we compare adults to kids,
                            the kids rights should come out on top. But at the moment, there is
                            no way to know what the district will do.

                            David

                            --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, SarahCreeley@a... wrote:
                            > If I had made a complaint about a teacher's misbehavior and a
                            disciplinary
                            > response was the result, I would want to be informed. If you are
                            aware of a
                            > teacher misbehaving, in a serious, hurtful manner, and you report
                            it, isn't it
                            > natural to then ask, "What happened?, How are you responding to
                            this?, What are
                            > you doing about this?". The parents of the students who complained
                            should have
                            > been notified about the action toward the teacher, at the very
                            least.
                            > LOVE,
                            > Sarah
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • SarahCreeley@aol.com
                            Hi David, and all, In your response to me you wrote Sarah, Unfortunately, the teachers union is fairly strong and if the school district were to disclose what
                            Message 13 of 14 , Oct 4, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi David, and all,
                              In your response to me you wrote

                              Sarah,
                              Unfortunately, the teachers union is fairly strong and if the school
                              district were to disclose what action they were planning to take
                              against a teacher, they would be in alot of hot water.

                              I'm a proud, grateful member of UTR, the union you are referring to, and I'm
                              glad that we are a strong union. Most teachers truly are caring advocates for
                              children. Yes,
                              we do have protections, but if one parent, or many parents make a complaint
                              about a teacher's misbehavior it is the District's responsibility to follow up
                              on it, and make a decision on disciplinary action. It seems that that Mr.
                              Butler was disciplined but the parents were left out of the loop and not told
                              about the discipline.

                              What I want to say here to other parents, like me, who have kids in the
                              WCCUSD schools, if you have observed something, or your child tells you something
                              that doesn't sound right, go through the process. PLEASE, don't jump to the
                              conclusion David seemed to, that the teacher's union protects teachers who are
                              not acting appropriately. Report the behavior to the principal, and to the board
                              if you don't feel listened to. Ask other parents or students if they are
                              aware of the negative behavior. Give the teacher the benefit of the doubt, but do
                              look into it. Teachers, like most professionals do have an accepted standard
                              of behavior that we are expected to follow. If a parent has made a complaint,
                              and it has been acted on, it seems to me that information should be
                              communicated to the people who made the complaint. I don't think that goes against our
                              contract.

                              Finally, let's not forget that there were always numerous teachers speaking
                              up on behalf of our children at all those board meetings. I believe that we are
                              all in this together.
                              LOVE,
                              Sarah



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