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Re: the retirement wave is coming

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  • tag1022
    WCCUSD is experiencing early the fate of most public pension schemes. Chronic underfunding has left most State and Local pensions collectively with unfunded
    Message 1 of 24 , Nov 18, 2009
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      WCCUSD is experiencing early the fate of most public pension schemes. Chronic underfunding has left most State and Local pensions collectively with unfunded liabilities that rival GDP, not to mention Medicare and Social Security both running deficits that will absorb most federal spending with the next few decades.

      Either we reward leadership willing bring on discipline by voting for them, or people in public office must bite the bullet and eschew future political careers and engage in heroic decision-making. Americans seem to hate tough choices by and large, and everybody hates a party pooper. We need to get past these instincts.

      I don't see how this district can avoid defined contributions instead of defined benefits, even for retirees. If a mechanism for doing so exists, please bring it to our attention. We can't trivialize the impact of needed change. Some people will be hurt badly. What alternatives exist?

      This exchange has had deliberative moments, and we now need thoughtful exchange more than ever. The problems we face are massive. The tendency to emote on these subjects clouds reasoned discussion, but we shouldn't let dialogue go silent. If better forums exist for these topics, please tell us where they are.

      The primary job of WCCUSD is to educate our district's children. We, by and large, haven't been able to do it very well. Most of the people on this list have tenaciously tried to make this district a better place. Many of us give it everything we have. And still the problems persist.

      Can we use the forum to build bigger, better ideas? If not, where can we turn? We need a one stop idea shop for this district. I'm in awe of you who digest hours of public meetings on our behalf. Can you synthesize your learning for broader distribution? We need actionable intelligence, with agendas clearly identified.

      Todd Groves



      --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Francie" <fdkunaniec@...> wrote:
      >
      > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the biggest concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked to would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it means their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more economically beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown of increasing health care costs.
      >
      > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system, costs are going to continue to rise.
      >
      > Francie
      >
      > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, c slamon <cslamon@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract agreement they
      > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which means that
      > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits without
      > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave is
      > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the middle of
      > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the teachers
      > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to pay off
      > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income to the
      > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district is not
      > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the amounts
      > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare liabilities of
      > > 600+ million dollars).
      > >
      > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either way
      > > our kids loose.
      > >
      > > Christina Slamon
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
    • Charles Cowens
      Todd- From previous exchanges, I thought you and Mark Woo were already going to start this idea shop you mention. Charley Cowens
      Message 2 of 24 , Nov 18, 2009
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        Todd-

        From previous exchanges, I thought you and Mark Woo were already going
        to start this idea shop you mention.

        Charley Cowens

        tag1022 wrote:
        > WCCUSD is experiencing early the fate of most public pension schemes. Chronic underfunding has left most State and Local pensions collectively with unfunded liabilities that rival GDP, not to mention Medicare and Social Security both running deficits that will absorb most federal spending with the next few decades.
        >
        > Either we reward leadership willing bring on discipline by voting for them, or people in public office must bite the bullet and eschew future political careers and engage in heroic decision-making. Americans seem to hate tough choices by and large, and everybody hates a party pooper. We need to get past these instincts.
        >
        > I don't see how this district can avoid defined contributions instead of defined benefits, even for retirees. If a mechanism for doing so exists, please bring it to our attention. We can't trivialize the impact of needed change. Some people will be hurt badly. What alternatives exist?
        >
        > This exchange has had deliberative moments, and we now need thoughtful exchange more than ever. The problems we face are massive. The tendency to emote on these subjects clouds reasoned discussion, but we shouldn't let dialogue go silent. If better forums exist for these topics, please tell us where they are.
        >
        > The primary job of WCCUSD is to educate our district's children. We, by and large, haven't been able to do it very well. Most of the people on this list have tenaciously tried to make this district a better place. Many of us give it everything we have. And still the problems persist.
        >
        > Can we use the forum to build bigger, better ideas? If not, where can we turn? We need a one stop idea shop for this district. I'm in awe of you who digest hours of public meetings on our behalf. Can you synthesize your learning for broader distribution? We need actionable intelligence, with agendas clearly identified.
        >
        > Todd Groves
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Francie" <fdkunaniec@...> wrote:
        >> Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the biggest concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked to would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it means their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more economically beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown of increasing health care costs.
        >>
        >> Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system, costs are going to continue to rise.
        >>
        >> Francie
        >>
        >> --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, c slamon <cslamon@> wrote:
        >>> Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract agreement they
        >>> are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which means that
        >>> any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits without
        >>> any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave is
        >>> coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the middle of
        >>> the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the teachers
        >>> crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to pay off
        >>> when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income to the
        >>> amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district is not
        >>> taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the amounts
        >>> (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare liabilities of
        >>> 600+ million dollars).
        >>>
        >>> Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either way
        >>> our kids loose.
        >>>
        >>> Christina Slamon
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Charles Cowens
        Either way our kids loose. Couldn t the teachers just turn the blame thing around and say that the kids lose because of the conditions that are leading to a
        Message 3 of 24 , Nov 18, 2009
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          "Either way our kids loose." Couldn't the teachers just turn the blame
          thing around and say that the kids lose because of the conditions that
          are leading to a strike or a spike in retirement (or neither, maybe).
          This Invocation of The Kids stuff rarely adds much to this kind of
          issue. But, it does remind me of one of my favorite movies:
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funny_Dirty_Little_War or http://tr.im/FgfT
          . It's about the fighting among Peronists in Argentina in 1974. In one
          scene, a right-wing Peronist is about to execute a middle-of-the-road
          Peronist and both the shooter and the victim yell out "Viva, Peron!" in
          all sincerity. Then, the guy is shot.

          Charley Cowens

          c slamon wrote:
          > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract agreement they
          > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which means that
          > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits without
          > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave is
          > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the middle of
          > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the teachers
          > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to pay off
          > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income to the
          > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district is not
          > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the amounts
          > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare liabilities of
          > 600+ million dollars).
          >
          > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either way
          > our kids loose.
          >
          > Christina Slamon
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Lucy
          The kids are already losing. I have classes with 41 students, and that is not good for kids. Our benefits are part of our salary package. We have given up
          Message 4 of 24 , Nov 18, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            The kids are already losing. I have classes with 41 students, and that is not good for kids. Our benefits are part of our salary package. We have given up raises to keep our health care package. It is a pay cut to cut our health care. I have a two and a half year old baby and cutting my pay will hurt my family.

            How many times have you heard people say, "I told my child not to become a doctor or a lawyer because teachers make so much more money."

            The district put the date of 12/31/09 not the teachers. We have more kids in our classes and they want to cut our pay? When am I supposed to grade papers, call parents, go to the office to check on issues that my students may have, have parent teacher conference, run the English department computer program, and many other things that we are not able to complete during our work day?

            I love teaching and I love working with my students and their parents, but I am not willing to give up the rights that we have worked so hard for.

            Thanks,
            Lucy Giusto
            Hercules Middle/High School

            --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, c slamon <cslamon@...> wrote:
            >
            > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract agreement they
            > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which means that
            > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits without
            > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave is
            > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the middle of
            > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the teachers
            > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to pay off
            > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income to the
            > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district is not
            > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the amounts
            > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare liabilities of
            > 600+ million dollars).
            >
            > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either way
            > our kids loose.
            >
            > Christina Slamon
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Tony Sustak
            Thank you, Lucy, for presenting the reality show of teaching. Well said. Margaret Browne _____ From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 24 , Nov 19, 2009
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              Thank you, Lucy, for presenting the "reality show" of teaching. Well said.

              Margaret Browne



              _____

              From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Lucy
              Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:52 PM
              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming





              The kids are already losing. I have classes with 41 students, and that is
              not good for kids. Our benefits are part of our salary package. We have
              given up raises to keep our health care package. It is a pay cut to cut our
              health care. I have a two and a half year old baby and cutting my pay will
              hurt my family.

              How many times have you heard people say, "I told my child not to become a
              doctor or a lawyer because teachers make so much more money."

              The district put the date of 12/31/09 not the teachers. We have more kids in
              our classes and they want to cut our pay? When am I supposed to grade
              papers, call parents, go to the office to check on issues that my students
              may have, have parent teacher conference, run the English department
              computer program, and many other things that we are not able to complete
              during our work day?

              I love teaching and I love working with my students and their parents, but I
              am not willing to give up the rights that we have worked so hard for.

              Thanks,
              Lucy Giusto
              Hercules Middle/High School

              --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com, c
              slamon <cslamon@...> wrote:
              >
              > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract agreement
              they
              > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which means
              that
              > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits without
              > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave is
              > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the middle of
              > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the teachers
              > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to pay off
              > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income to the
              > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district is not
              > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the amounts
              > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare liabilities
              of
              > 600+ million dollars).
              >
              > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either way
              > our kids loose.
              >
              > Christina Slamon
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >




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            • tag1022
              Charley- Still working on it. It s hard to establish the right resolution. Too lofty, and it becomes pointless. To narrow, it can descend into the poop
              Message 6 of 24 , Nov 19, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Charley-

                Still working on it.

                It's hard to establish the right resolution. Too lofty, and it becomes pointless. To narrow, it can descend into the poop flinging that we have all too much of already. Discussions on both problems and solutions occur across the district all the time. How do we capture them?

                What are the crucial areas of needed analysis? Where are the gaps between current practice and ideal practice the widest? Where are efforts most successful and why?

                What's the best means of open source web based collaboration? Wiki's would need some basic topical organization. I started a wiki for the Portola Math Club, http://portmc.pbworks.com/ . The idea is like starting a snowball rolling downhill. Finding contributors hasn't worked yet, but we must keep hope alive.

                If anyone has ideas, please share them. We need a kitchen sink approach to get through the next few years. Reticence to contribute will only hamper things. Something about posting here makes many feel conspicuous; therefore, they lurk. Maybe we should use the other features of this group like polling.

                I would love to know specifics on why teachers rejected the latest contract. It sounds as though most want to retain defined benefits. Working conditions seem secondary. With a well constructed poll, we could get a sense of perceptions that really matter.

                Any ideas?

                Todd Groves



                --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Charles Cowens <charley.cowens@...> wrote:
                >
                > Todd-
                >
                > From previous exchanges, I thought you and Mark Woo were already going
                > to start this idea shop you mention.
                >
                > Charley Cowens
                >
                > tag1022 wrote:
                > > WCCUSD is experiencing early the fate of most public pension schemes. Chronic underfunding has left most State and Local pensions collectively with unfunded liabilities that rival GDP, not to mention Medicare and Social Security both running deficits that will absorb most federal spending with the next few decades.
                > >
                > > Either we reward leadership willing bring on discipline by voting for them, or people in public office must bite the bullet and eschew future political careers and engage in heroic decision-making. Americans seem to hate tough choices by and large, and everybody hates a party pooper. We need to get past these instincts.
                > >
                > > I don't see how this district can avoid defined contributions instead of defined benefits, even for retirees. If a mechanism for doing so exists, please bring it to our attention. We can't trivialize the impact of needed change. Some people will be hurt badly. What alternatives exist?
                > >
                > > This exchange has had deliberative moments, and we now need thoughtful exchange more than ever. The problems we face are massive. The tendency to emote on these subjects clouds reasoned discussion, but we shouldn't let dialogue go silent. If better forums exist for these topics, please tell us where they are.
                > >
                > > The primary job of WCCUSD is to educate our district's children. We, by and large, haven't been able to do it very well. Most of the people on this list have tenaciously tried to make this district a better place. Many of us give it everything we have. And still the problems persist.
                > >
                > > Can we use the forum to build bigger, better ideas? If not, where can we turn? We need a one stop idea shop for this district. I'm in awe of you who digest hours of public meetings on our behalf. Can you synthesize your learning for broader distribution? We need actionable intelligence, with agendas clearly identified.
                > >
                > > Todd Groves
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Francie" <fdkunaniec@> wrote:
                > >> Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the biggest concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked to would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it means their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more economically beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown of increasing health care costs.
                > >>
                > >> Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system, costs are going to continue to rise.
                > >>
                > >> Francie
                > >>
                > >> --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, c slamon <cslamon@> wrote:
                > >>> Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract agreement they
                > >>> are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which means that
                > >>> any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits without
                > >>> any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave is
                > >>> coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the middle of
                > >>> the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the teachers
                > >>> crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to pay off
                > >>> when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income to the
                > >>> amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district is not
                > >>> taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the amounts
                > >>> (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare liabilities of
                > >>> 600+ million dollars).
                > >>>
                > >>> Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either way
                > >>> our kids loose.
                > >>>
                > >>> Christina Slamon
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • c slamon
                Francie, I understand the teachers concerns, it s a scary time for many families right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students families
                Message 7 of 24 , Nov 20, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Francie,
                  I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many families
                  right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students families
                  too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the teachers are
                  being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health benefits
                  at all.

                  I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual situation
                  but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want teachers to make
                  sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able to retire
                  and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute because
                  then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go out
                  into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to earn an
                  income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become employed
                  in another school district.

                  Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime health
                  benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this misinformation that my
                  benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away, the
                  district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the costs. I
                  believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why would you
                  give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The teachers who can
                  retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get the lifetime
                  health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale. Please
                  believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly to even
                  have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way more than
                  $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities of 600
                  million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without believing that
                  the house of cards will someday collapse.

                  Chris Slamon




                  On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the biggest
                  > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked to
                  > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it means
                  > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more economically
                  > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown of
                  > increasing health care costs.
                  >
                  > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system, costs are
                  > going to continue to rise.
                  >
                  > Francie
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                  > <cslamon@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract agreement
                  > they
                  > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which means
                  > that
                  > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits without
                  > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave is
                  > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the middle of
                  > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the
                  > teachers
                  > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to pay
                  > off
                  > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income to
                  > the
                  > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district is
                  > not
                  > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the amounts
                  > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare liabilities
                  > of
                  > > 600+ million dollars).
                  > >
                  > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either way
                  > > our kids loose.
                  > >
                  > > Christina Slamon
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Lucy
                  Individuals in the private sector have a MUCH larger salary than we do. We have to have a BA or BS, then we have to go through the credential program for a
                  Message 8 of 24 , Nov 20, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Individuals in the private sector have a MUCH larger salary than we do. We have to have a BA or BS, then we have to go through the credential program for a year, student teach or intern for a year, and then we have to pay to process our credentials, pay for tests to qualify for the programs, and many other ancillary items that comes along with being a teacher.

                    We lose teachers every year because with their education, they are able to get jobs with much higher salaries in other industries. I will not be able to afford to continue teaching in this district if I have a pay cut. I will either have to go to another district or change my job type altogether.

                    Many teachers are saying the same thing, so who do you want teaching your children?

                    Thank you,
                    Lucy Giusto
                    Hercules Middle/High School

                    --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, c slamon <cslamon@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Francie,
                    > I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many families
                    > right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students families
                    > too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the teachers are
                    > being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health benefits
                    > at all.
                    >
                    > I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual situation
                    > but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want teachers to make
                    > sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able to retire
                    > and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute because
                    > then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go out
                    > into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to earn an
                    > income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become employed
                    > in another school district.
                    >
                    > Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime health
                    > benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this misinformation that my
                    > benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away, the
                    > district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the costs. I
                    > believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why would you
                    > give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The teachers who can
                    > retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get the lifetime
                    > health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale. Please
                    > believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly to even
                    > have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way more than
                    > $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities of 600
                    > million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without believing that
                    > the house of cards will someday collapse.
                    >
                    > Chris Slamon
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the biggest
                    > > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked to
                    > > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it means
                    > > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more economically
                    > > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown of
                    > > increasing health care costs.
                    > >
                    > > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system, costs are
                    > > going to continue to rise.
                    > >
                    > > Francie
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                    > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract agreement
                    > > they
                    > > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which means
                    > > that
                    > > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits without
                    > > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave is
                    > > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the middle of
                    > > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the
                    > > teachers
                    > > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to pay
                    > > off
                    > > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income to
                    > > the
                    > > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district is
                    > > not
                    > > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the amounts
                    > > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare liabilities
                    > > of
                    > > > 600+ million dollars).
                    > > >
                    > > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either way
                    > > > our kids loose.
                    > > >
                    > > > Christina Slamon
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • c slamon
                    Many of the working families in our district do not have MUCH larger salaries than teachers. My husband works a damn hard physical job, much harder than a
                    Message 9 of 24 , Nov 20, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Many of the working families in our district do not have MUCH larger
                      salaries than teachers. My husband works a damn hard physical job, much
                      harder than a teacher and he makes about the same amount of money that a
                      teacher makes. He's been on his job 15+ years and he does not have lifetime
                      health benefits. In fact we pay over $5,000 per year for the health
                      benefits that we do have, on top of what his employers pays for the
                      premium. I understand that teaching is not as lucrative financially as
                      other jobs with the same educational requirements but there are many nice
                      perks that teachers enjoy that other professions do not, the generous
                      vacation times (a week at Christmas, a week in February, a week in April and
                      then the entire summer of 8 weeks). No one in the private sector gets
                      that. None of the neighboring school districts offer lifetime health
                      benefits because they understand that to do that would mean a trade off in
                      programs for the students. They just can't afford it. Many of the
                      neighboring districts require shared costs of the benefits that they offer.

                      And finally, sometimes I think teachers think that the students are here
                      because of them when it's really the other way around. The teachers are
                      here because of the students, if we continue to suck funds from the programs
                      then parents will continue to flee this district even more, our
                      enrollement will decline further and more teachers will be layed off. There
                      is a balance to everything and we have to work together to find it. As I
                      said before, I want the teachers to do whatever is best for their individual
                      situation just like I will do as parent when it comes time to deciding if I
                      want to ride out this storm or bail.

                      chris slamon

                      On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Lucy <mrsgiusto@...> wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Individuals in the private sector have a MUCH larger salary than we do. We
                      > have to have a BA or BS, then we have to go through the credential program
                      > for a year, student teach or intern for a year, and then we have to pay to
                      > process our credentials, pay for tests to qualify for the programs, and many
                      > other ancillary items that comes along with being a teacher.
                      >
                      > We lose teachers every year because with their education, they are able to
                      > get jobs with much higher salaries in other industries. I will not be able
                      > to afford to continue teaching in this district if I have a pay cut. I will
                      > either have to go to another district or change my job type altogether.
                      >
                      > Many teachers are saying the same thing, so who do you want teaching your
                      > children?
                      >
                      > Thank you,
                      >
                      > Lucy Giusto
                      > Hercules Middle/High School
                      >
                      > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                      > <cslamon@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Francie,
                      > > I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many families
                      > > right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students
                      > families
                      > > too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the teachers
                      > are
                      > > being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health
                      > benefits
                      > > at all.
                      > >
                      > > I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual
                      > situation
                      > > but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want teachers to
                      > make
                      > > sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able to
                      > retire
                      > > and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute
                      > because
                      > > then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go
                      > out
                      > > into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to earn
                      > an
                      > > income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become
                      > employed
                      > > in another school district.
                      > >
                      > > Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime health
                      > > benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this misinformation that
                      > my
                      > > benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away, the
                      > > district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the costs. I
                      > > believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why would you
                      > > give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The teachers who
                      > can
                      > > retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get the
                      > lifetime
                      > > health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale. Please
                      > > believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly to even
                      > > have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way more than
                      > > $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities of 600
                      > > million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without believing that
                      > > the house of cards will someday collapse.
                      > >
                      > > Chris Slamon
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the
                      > biggest
                      > > > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked
                      > to
                      > > > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it
                      > means
                      > > > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more
                      > economically
                      > > > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown of
                      > > > increasing health care costs.
                      > > >
                      > > > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system, costs
                      > are
                      > > > going to continue to rise.
                      > > >
                      > > > Francie
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com><wccusdtalk%
                      > 40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                      >
                      > > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract
                      > agreement
                      > > > they
                      > > > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which
                      > means
                      > > > that
                      > > > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits
                      > without
                      > > > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave
                      > is
                      > > > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the
                      > middle of
                      > > > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the
                      > > > teachers
                      > > > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to
                      > pay
                      > > > off
                      > > > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income
                      > to
                      > > > the
                      > > > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district
                      > is
                      > > > not
                      > > > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the
                      > amounts
                      > > > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare
                      > liabilities
                      > > > of
                      > > > > 600+ million dollars).
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either
                      > way
                      > > > > our kids loose.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Christina Slamon
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • reducingandreusing
                      So why doesn t your husband become a WCCUSD teacher?
                      Message 10 of 24 , Nov 20, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        So why doesn't your husband become a WCCUSD teacher?

                        --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, c slamon <cslamon@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Many of the working families in our district do not have MUCH larger
                        > salaries than teachers. My husband works a damn hard physical job, much
                        > harder than a teacher and he makes about the same amount of money that a
                        > teacher makes. He's been on his job 15+ years and he does not have lifetime
                        > health benefits. In fact we pay over $5,000 per year for the health
                        > benefits that we do have, on top of what his employers pays for the
                        > premium. I understand that teaching is not as lucrative financially as
                        > other jobs with the same educational requirements but there are many nice
                        > perks that teachers enjoy that other professions do not, the generous
                        > vacation times (a week at Christmas, a week in February, a week in April and
                        > then the entire summer of 8 weeks). No one in the private sector gets
                        > that. None of the neighboring school districts offer lifetime health
                        > benefits because they understand that to do that would mean a trade off in
                        > programs for the students. They just can't afford it. Many of the
                        > neighboring districts require shared costs of the benefits that they offer.
                        >
                        > And finally, sometimes I think teachers think that the students are here
                        > because of them when it's really the other way around. The teachers are
                        > here because of the students, if we continue to suck funds from the programs
                        > then parents will continue to flee this district even more, our
                        > enrollement will decline further and more teachers will be layed off. There
                        > is a balance to everything and we have to work together to find it. As I
                        > said before, I want the teachers to do whatever is best for their individual
                        > situation just like I will do as parent when it comes time to deciding if I
                        > want to ride out this storm or bail.
                        >
                        > chris slamon
                        >
                        > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Lucy <mrsgiusto@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Individuals in the private sector have a MUCH larger salary than we do. We
                        > > have to have a BA or BS, then we have to go through the credential program
                        > > for a year, student teach or intern for a year, and then we have to pay to
                        > > process our credentials, pay for tests to qualify for the programs, and many
                        > > other ancillary items that comes along with being a teacher.
                        > >
                        > > We lose teachers every year because with their education, they are able to
                        > > get jobs with much higher salaries in other industries. I will not be able
                        > > to afford to continue teaching in this district if I have a pay cut. I will
                        > > either have to go to another district or change my job type altogether.
                        > >
                        > > Many teachers are saying the same thing, so who do you want teaching your
                        > > children?
                        > >
                        > > Thank you,
                        > >
                        > > Lucy Giusto
                        > > Hercules Middle/High School
                        > >
                        > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                        > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Francie,
                        > > > I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many families
                        > > > right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students
                        > > families
                        > > > too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the teachers
                        > > are
                        > > > being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health
                        > > benefits
                        > > > at all.
                        > > >
                        > > > I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual
                        > > situation
                        > > > but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want teachers to
                        > > make
                        > > > sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able to
                        > > retire
                        > > > and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute
                        > > because
                        > > > then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go
                        > > out
                        > > > into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to earn
                        > > an
                        > > > income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become
                        > > employed
                        > > > in another school district.
                        > > >
                        > > > Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime health
                        > > > benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this misinformation that
                        > > my
                        > > > benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away, the
                        > > > district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the costs. I
                        > > > believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why would you
                        > > > give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The teachers who
                        > > can
                        > > > retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get the
                        > > lifetime
                        > > > health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale. Please
                        > > > believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly to even
                        > > > have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way more than
                        > > > $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities of 600
                        > > > million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without believing that
                        > > > the house of cards will someday collapse.
                        > > >
                        > > > Chris Slamon
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the
                        > > biggest
                        > > > > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked
                        > > to
                        > > > > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it
                        > > means
                        > > > > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more
                        > > economically
                        > > > > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown of
                        > > > > increasing health care costs.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system, costs
                        > > are
                        > > > > going to continue to rise.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Francie
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com><wccusdtalk%
                        > > 40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                        > >
                        > > > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract
                        > > agreement
                        > > > > they
                        > > > > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which
                        > > means
                        > > > > that
                        > > > > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits
                        > > without
                        > > > > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave
                        > > is
                        > > > > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the
                        > > middle of
                        > > > > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the
                        > > > > teachers
                        > > > > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to
                        > > pay
                        > > > > off
                        > > > > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income
                        > > to
                        > > > > the
                        > > > > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district
                        > > is
                        > > > > not
                        > > > > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the
                        > > amounts
                        > > > > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare
                        > > liabilities
                        > > > > of
                        > > > > > 600+ million dollars).
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either
                        > > way
                        > > > > > our kids loose.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Christina Slamon
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • c slamon
                        it s not his calling. On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:42 AM, reducingandreusing
                        Message 11 of 24 , Nov 20, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          it's not his calling.

                          On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 10:42 AM, reducingandreusing <
                          valerie.snider@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > So why doesn't your husband become a WCCUSD teacher?
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                          > <cslamon@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Many of the working families in our district do not have MUCH larger
                          > > salaries than teachers. My husband works a damn hard physical job, much
                          > > harder than a teacher and he makes about the same amount of money that a
                          > > teacher makes. He's been on his job 15+ years and he does not have
                          > lifetime
                          > > health benefits. In fact we pay over $5,000 per year for the health
                          > > benefits that we do have, on top of what his employers pays for the
                          > > premium. I understand that teaching is not as lucrative financially as
                          > > other jobs with the same educational requirements but there are many nice
                          > > perks that teachers enjoy that other professions do not, the generous
                          > > vacation times (a week at Christmas, a week in February, a week in April
                          > and
                          > > then the entire summer of 8 weeks). No one in the private sector gets
                          > > that. None of the neighboring school districts offer lifetime health
                          > > benefits because they understand that to do that would mean a trade off
                          > in
                          > > programs for the students. They just can't afford it. Many of the
                          > > neighboring districts require shared costs of the benefits that they
                          > offer.
                          > >
                          > > And finally, sometimes I think teachers think that the students are here
                          > > because of them when it's really the other way around. The teachers are
                          > > here because of the students, if we continue to suck funds from the
                          > programs
                          > > then parents will continue to flee this district even more, our
                          > > enrollement will decline further and more teachers will be layed off.
                          > There
                          > > is a balance to everything and we have to work together to find it. As I
                          > > said before, I want the teachers to do whatever is best for their
                          > individual
                          > > situation just like I will do as parent when it comes time to deciding if
                          > I
                          > > want to ride out this storm or bail.
                          > >
                          > > chris slamon
                          > >
                          > > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Lucy <mrsgiusto@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Individuals in the private sector have a MUCH larger salary than we do.
                          > We
                          > > > have to have a BA or BS, then we have to go through the credential
                          > program
                          > > > for a year, student teach or intern for a year, and then we have to pay
                          > to
                          > > > process our credentials, pay for tests to qualify for the programs, and
                          > many
                          > > > other ancillary items that comes along with being a teacher.
                          > > >
                          > > > We lose teachers every year because with their education, they are able
                          > to
                          > > > get jobs with much higher salaries in other industries. I will not be
                          > able
                          > > > to afford to continue teaching in this district if I have a pay cut. I
                          > will
                          > > > either have to go to another district or change my job type altogether.
                          > > >
                          > > > Many teachers are saying the same thing, so who do you want teaching
                          > your
                          > > > children?
                          > > >
                          > > > Thank you,
                          > > >
                          > > > Lucy Giusto
                          > > > Hercules Middle/High School
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com><wccusdtalk%
                          > 40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                          > > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Francie,
                          > > > > I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many
                          > families
                          > > > > right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students
                          > > > families
                          > > > > too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the
                          > teachers
                          > > > are
                          > > > > being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health
                          > > > benefits
                          > > > > at all.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual
                          > > > situation
                          > > > > but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want teachers
                          > to
                          > > > make
                          > > > > sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able to
                          > > > retire
                          > > > > and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute
                          > > > because
                          > > > > then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to
                          > go
                          > > > out
                          > > > > into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to
                          > earn
                          > > > an
                          > > > > income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become
                          > > > employed
                          > > > > in another school district.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime
                          > health
                          > > > > benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this misinformation
                          > that
                          > > > my
                          > > > > benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away, the
                          > > > > district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the costs. I
                          > > > > believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why would
                          > you
                          > > > > give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The teachers
                          > who
                          > > > can
                          > > > > retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get the
                          > > > lifetime
                          > > > > health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale.
                          > Please
                          > > > > believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly to
                          > even
                          > > > > have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way more
                          > than
                          > > > > $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities of
                          > 600
                          > > > > million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without believing
                          > that
                          > > > > the house of cards will someday collapse.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Chris Slamon
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the
                          > > > biggest
                          > > > > > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've
                          > talked
                          > > > to
                          > > > > > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it
                          > > > means
                          > > > > > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more
                          > > > economically
                          > > > > > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the
                          > unknown of
                          > > > > > increasing health care costs.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system,
                          > costs
                          > > > are
                          > > > > > going to continue to rise.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Francie
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com><wccusdtalk%
                          > 40yahoogroups.com><wccusdtalk%
                          >
                          > > > 40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                          > > >
                          > > > > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract
                          > > > agreement
                          > > > > > they
                          > > > > > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which
                          > > > means
                          > > > > > that
                          > > > > > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits
                          > > > without
                          > > > > > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement
                          > wave
                          > > > is
                          > > > > > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the
                          > > > middle of
                          > > > > > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the
                          > > > > > teachers
                          > > > > > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going
                          > to
                          > > > pay
                          > > > > > off
                          > > > > > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in
                          > income
                          > > > to
                          > > > > > the
                          > > > > > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The
                          > district
                          > > > is
                          > > > > > not
                          > > > > > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the
                          > > > amounts
                          > > > > > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare
                          > > > liabilities
                          > > > > > of
                          > > > > > > 600+ million dollars).
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse?
                          > Either
                          > > > way
                          > > > > > > our kids loose.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Christina Slamon
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Eduardo Martinez
                          c slamon wrote - Teachers will not be able to retire and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute because then they will jeopardize
                          Message 12 of 24 , Nov 20, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            c slamon wrote - Teachers will not be able to retire
                            and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute because
                            then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go out
                            into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to earn an
                            income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become employed
                            in another school district.

                            According to my STRS councilor, what you have posted is incorrect. A teacher can retire from the district and not collect on STRS enabling that teacher to continue to teach elsewhere. In retiring from the district, the medical benifits are preserved at the rate of the contract upon retirement. Even if a teacher begins to collect on STRS, the teacher may work for a certain number of days without penalty.




                            ________________________________
                            From: c slamon <cslamon@...>
                            To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 8:51:02 AM
                            Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming

                            Francie,
                            I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many families
                            right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students families
                            too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the teachers are
                            being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health benefits
                            at all.

                            I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual situation
                            but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want teachers to make
                            sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able to retire
                            and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute because
                            then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go out
                            into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to earn an
                            income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become employed
                            in another school district.

                            Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime health
                            benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this misinformation that my
                            benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away, the
                            district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the costs. I
                            believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why would you
                            give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The teachers who can
                            retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get the lifetime
                            health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale. Please
                            believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly to even
                            have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way more than
                            $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities of 600
                            million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without believing that
                            the house of cards will someday collapse.

                            Chris Slamon




                            On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@...> wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the biggest
                            > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked to
                            > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it means
                            > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more economically
                            > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown of
                            > increasing health care costs.
                            >
                            > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system, costs are
                            > going to continue to rise.
                            >
                            > Francie
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                            > <cslamon@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract agreement
                            > they
                            > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which means
                            > that
                            > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits without
                            > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave is
                            > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the middle of
                            > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the
                            > teachers
                            > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to pay
                            > off
                            > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income to
                            > the
                            > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district is
                            > not
                            > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the amounts
                            > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare liabilities
                            > of
                            > > 600+ million dollars).
                            > >
                            > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either way
                            > > our kids loose.
                            > >
                            > > Christina Slamon
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                            ------------------------------------

                            Yahoo! Groups Links






                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Eduardo Martinez
                            I continue to hear the argument that because others are suffering an injustice, we should suffer the same injustice. Instead of dragging people down because
                            Message 13 of 24 , Nov 20, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I continue to hear the argument that because others are suffering an injustice, we should suffer the same injustice. Instead of dragging people down because others are not being dealt with fairly, we should be working at pulling up all employees with poor situations. Lets stop this:" I don't got this so why should you?" and change our vision to: "Let's work together to make sure we all have what is necessary for a healthy productive life!"




                              ________________________________
                              From: c slamon <cslamon@...>
                              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 10:04:24 AM
                              Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming

                              Many of the working families in our district do not have MUCH larger
                              salaries than teachers. My husband works a damn hard physical job, much
                              harder than a teacher and he makes about the same amount of money that a
                              teacher makes. He's been on his job 15+ years and he does not have lifetime
                              health benefits. In fact we pay over $5,000 per year for the health
                              benefits that we do have, on top of what his employers pays for the
                              premium. I understand that teaching is not as lucrative financially as
                              other jobs with the same educational requirements but there are many nice
                              perks that teachers enjoy that other professions do not, the generous
                              vacation times (a week at Christmas, a week in February, a week in April and
                              then the entire summer of 8 weeks). No one in the private sector gets
                              that. None of the neighboring school districts offer lifetime health
                              benefits because they understand that to do that would mean a trade off in
                              programs for the students. They just can't afford it. Many of the
                              neighboring districts require shared costs of the benefits that they offer.

                              And finally, sometimes I think teachers think that the students are here
                              because of them when it's really the other way around. The teachers are
                              here because of the students, if we continue to suck funds from the programs
                              then parents will continue to flee this district even more, our
                              enrollement will decline further and more teachers will be layed off. There
                              is a balance to everything and we have to work together to find it. As I
                              said before, I want the teachers to do whatever is best for their individual
                              situation just like I will do as parent when it comes time to deciding if I
                              want to ride out this storm or bail.

                              chris slamon

                              On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Lucy <mrsgiusto@...> wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Individuals in the private sector have a MUCH larger salary than we do. We
                              > have to have a BA or BS, then we have to go through the credential program
                              > for a year, student teach or intern for a year, and then we have to pay to
                              > process our credentials, pay for tests to qualify for the programs, and many
                              > other ancillary items that comes along with being a teacher.
                              >
                              > We lose teachers every year because with their education, they are able to
                              > get jobs with much higher salaries in other industries. I will not be able
                              > to afford to continue teaching in this district if I have a pay cut. I will
                              > either have to go to another district or change my job type altogether.
                              >
                              > Many teachers are saying the same thing, so who do you want teaching your
                              > children?
                              >
                              > Thank you,
                              >
                              > Lucy Giusto
                              > Hercules Middle/High School
                              >
                              > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                              > <cslamon@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Francie,
                              > > I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many families
                              > > right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students
                              > families
                              > > too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the teachers
                              > are
                              > > being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health
                              > benefits
                              > > at all.
                              > >
                              > > I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual
                              > situation
                              > > but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want teachers to
                              > make
                              > > sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able to
                              > retire
                              > > and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute
                              > because
                              > > then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go
                              > out
                              > > into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to earn
                              > an
                              > > income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become
                              > employed
                              > > in another school district.
                              > >
                              > > Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime health
                              > > benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this misinformation that
                              > my
                              > > benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away, the
                              > > district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the costs. I
                              > > believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why would you
                              > > give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The teachers who
                              > can
                              > > retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get the
                              > lifetime
                              > > health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale. Please
                              > > believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly to even
                              > > have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way more than
                              > > $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities of 600
                              > > million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without believing that
                              > > the house of cards will someday collapse.
                              > >
                              > > Chris Slamon
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the
                              > biggest
                              > > > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked
                              > to
                              > > > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it
                              > means
                              > > > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more
                              > economically
                              > > > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown of
                              > > > increasing health care costs.
                              > > >
                              > > > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system, costs
                              > are
                              > > > going to continue to rise.
                              > > >
                              > > > Francie
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com><wccusdtalk%
                              > 40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                              >
                              > > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract
                              > agreement
                              > > > they
                              > > > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which
                              > means
                              > > > that
                              > > > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits
                              > without
                              > > > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave
                              > is
                              > > > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the
                              > middle of
                              > > > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the
                              > > > teachers
                              > > > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to
                              > pay
                              > > > off
                              > > > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income
                              > to
                              > > > the
                              > > > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district
                              > is
                              > > > not
                              > > > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the
                              > amounts
                              > > > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare
                              > liabilities
                              > > > of
                              > > > > 600+ million dollars).
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either
                              > way
                              > > > > our kids loose.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Christina Slamon
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              ------------------------------------

                              Yahoo! Groups Links






                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Lucy
                              What makes you think that because your husband makes X that I should make X. I have a Master s degree. I do not doubt that your husband works hard, but you
                              Message 14 of 24 , Nov 20, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                What makes you think that because your husband makes X that I should make X. I have a Master's degree. I do not doubt that your husband works hard, but you are comparing apples to oranges.

                                Yes, I can work in another district. My experience level and my education makes it so that it will be very easy to do so. Not to mention I can make much more doing something else.

                                Just because I am an educator does not mean that I should sacrifice my salary for the students. I love teaching, but I am not going to give away money that is needed to run my household. I, like you, have bills. I do not think that I should have to justify why I as a teacher deserve to get paid for the work that I do.

                                People will flee from this distric if there is not a competitive salary for teachers.

                                Lucy
                                ________________________________
                                > From: c slamon <cslamon@...>
                                > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 10:04:24 AM
                                > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming
                                >
                                > Many of the working families in our district do not have MUCH larger
                                > salaries than teachers. My husband works a damn hard physical job, much
                                > harder than a teacher and he makes about the same amount of money that a
                                > teacher makes. He's been on his job 15+ years and he does not have lifetime
                                > health benefits. In fact we pay over $5,000 per year for the health
                                > benefits that we do have, on top of what his employers pays for the
                                > premium. I understand that teaching is not as lucrative financially as
                                > other jobs with the same educational requirements but there are many nice
                                > perks that teachers enjoy that other professions do not, the generous
                                > vacation times (a week at Christmas, a week in February, a week in April and
                                > then the entire summer of 8 weeks). No one in the private sector gets
                                > that. None of the neighboring school districts offer lifetime health
                                > benefits because they understand that to do that would mean a trade off in
                                > programs for the students. They just can't afford it. Many of the
                                > neighboring districts require shared costs of the benefits that they offer.
                                >
                                > And finally, sometimes I think teachers think that the students are here
                                > because of them when it's really the other way around. The teachers are
                                > here because of the students, if we continue to suck funds from the programs
                                > then parents will continue to flee this district even more, our
                                > enrollement will decline further and more teachers will be layed off. There
                                > is a balance to everything and we have to work together to find it. As I
                                > said before, I want the teachers to do whatever is best for their individual
                                > situation just like I will do as parent when it comes time to deciding if I
                                > want to ride out this storm or bail.
                                >
                                > chris slamon
                                >
                                > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Lucy <mrsgiusto@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Individuals in the private sector have a MUCH larger salary than we do. We
                                > > have to have a BA or BS, then we have to go through the credential program
                                > > for a year, student teach or intern for a year, and then we have to pay to
                                > > process our credentials, pay for tests to qualify for the programs, and many
                                > > other ancillary items that comes along with being a teacher.
                                > >
                                > > We lose teachers every year because with their education, they are able to
                                > > get jobs with much higher salaries in other industries. I will not be able
                                > > to afford to continue teaching in this district if I have a pay cut. I will
                                > > either have to go to another district or change my job type altogether.
                                > >
                                > > Many teachers are saying the same thing, so who do you want teaching your
                                > > children?
                                > >
                                > > Thank you,
                                > >
                                > > Lucy Giusto
                                > > Hercules Middle/High School
                                > >
                                > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                                > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Francie,
                                > > > I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many families
                                > > > right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students
                                > > families
                                > > > too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the teachers
                                > > are
                                > > > being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health
                                > > benefits
                                > > > at all.
                                > > >
                                > > > I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual
                                > > situation
                                > > > but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want teachers to
                                > > make
                                > > > sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able to
                                > > retire
                                > > > and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute
                                > > because
                                > > > then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go
                                > > out
                                > > > into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to earn
                                > > an
                                > > > income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become
                                > > employed
                                > > > in another school district.
                                > > >
                                > > > Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime health
                                > > > benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this misinformation that
                                > > my
                                > > > benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away, the
                                > > > district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the costs. I
                                > > > believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why would you
                                > > > give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The teachers who
                                > > can
                                > > > retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get the
                                > > lifetime
                                > > > health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale. Please
                                > > > believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly to even
                                > > > have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way more than
                                > > > $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities of 600
                                > > > million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without believing that
                                > > > the house of cards will someday collapse.
                                > > >
                                > > > Chris Slamon
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the
                                > > biggest
                                > > > > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked
                                > > to
                                > > > > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it
                                > > means
                                > > > > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more
                                > > economically
                                > > > > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown of
                                > > > > increasing health care costs.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system, costs
                                > > are
                                > > > > going to continue to rise.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Francie
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com><wccusdtalk%
                                > > 40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                                > >
                                > > > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract
                                > > agreement
                                > > > > they
                                > > > > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which
                                > > means
                                > > > > that
                                > > > > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits
                                > > without
                                > > > > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave
                                > > is
                                > > > > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the
                                > > middle of
                                > > > > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the
                                > > > > teachers
                                > > > > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to
                                > > pay
                                > > > > off
                                > > > > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income
                                > > to
                                > > > > the
                                > > > > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district
                                > > is
                                > > > > not
                                > > > > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the
                                > > amounts
                                > > > > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare
                                > > liabilities
                                > > > > of
                                > > > > > 600+ million dollars).
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either
                                > > way
                                > > > > > our kids loose.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Christina Slamon
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • c slamon
                                Thank you for the correction Eduardo. I hope that helps some teachers who may want to retire. The point that I was trying to make to the teachers is that it
                                Message 15 of 24 , Nov 20, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thank you for the correction Eduardo. I hope that helps some teachers who
                                  may want to retire. The point that I was trying to make to the teachers is
                                  that it is really important to know all these facts and their ramifications
                                  before retiring. I want them to go into retirement with their eyes wide
                                  open, not to find out about this kind of stuff after the fact when they
                                  could be penalized. I hope that other teachers seek out advice on these
                                  kinds of questions too before making their decisions about retirement.


                                  On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Eduardo Martinez <ezedmartin@...>wrote:

                                  >
                                  >
                                  > c slamon wrote - Teachers will not be able to retire
                                  >
                                  > and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute because
                                  > then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go out
                                  > into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to earn
                                  > an
                                  > income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become employed
                                  > in another school district.
                                  >
                                  > According to my STRS councilor, what you have posted is incorrect. A
                                  > teacher can retire from the district and not collect on STRS enabling that
                                  > teacher to continue to teach elsewhere. In retiring from the district, the
                                  > medical benifits are preserved at the rate of the contract upon retirement.
                                  > Even if a teacher begins to collect on STRS, the teacher may work for a
                                  > certain number of days without penalty.
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  >
                                  > From: c slamon <cslamon@... <cslamon%40gmail.com>>
                                  > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 8:51:02 AM
                                  > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Francie,
                                  > I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many families
                                  > right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students families
                                  > too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the teachers are
                                  > being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health benefits
                                  > at all.
                                  >
                                  > I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual situation
                                  > but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want teachers to make
                                  > sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able to retire
                                  > and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute because
                                  > then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go out
                                  > into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to earn
                                  > an
                                  > income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become employed
                                  > in another school district.
                                  >
                                  > Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime health
                                  > benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this misinformation that my
                                  > benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away, the
                                  > district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the costs. I
                                  > believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why would you
                                  > give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The teachers who can
                                  > retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get the
                                  > lifetime
                                  > health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale. Please
                                  > believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly to even
                                  > have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way more than
                                  > $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities of 600
                                  > million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without believing that
                                  > the house of cards will someday collapse.
                                  >
                                  > Chris Slamon
                                  >
                                  > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@...<fdkunaniec%40yahoo.com>>
                                  > wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the biggest
                                  > > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked to
                                  > > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it means
                                  > > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more economically
                                  > > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown of
                                  > > increasing health care costs.
                                  > >
                                  > > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system, costs
                                  > are
                                  > > going to continue to rise.
                                  > >
                                  > > Francie
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com><wccusdtalk%
                                  > 40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                                  >
                                  > > <cslamon@...> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract agreement
                                  > > they
                                  > > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which means
                                  > > that
                                  > > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits
                                  > without
                                  > > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave is
                                  > > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the middle
                                  > of
                                  > > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the
                                  > > teachers
                                  > > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to pay
                                  > > off
                                  > > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income to
                                  > > the
                                  > > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district is
                                  > > not
                                  > > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the amounts
                                  > > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare
                                  > liabilities
                                  > > of
                                  > > > 600+ million dollars).
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either
                                  > way
                                  > > > our kids loose.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Christina Slamon
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Tony Sustak
                                  Eduardo, I agree. Margaret Browne _____ From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez Sent: Friday,
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Nov 21, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Eduardo,

                                    I agree.

                                    Margaret Browne



                                    _____

                                    From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                                    Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez
                                    Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 4:10 PM
                                    To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming





                                    I continue to hear the argument that because others are suffering an
                                    injustice, we should suffer the same injustice. Instead of dragging people
                                    down because others are not being dealt with fairly, we should be working at
                                    pulling up all employees with poor situations. Lets stop this:" I don't got
                                    this so why should you?" and change our vision to: "Let's work together to
                                    make sure we all have what is necessary for a healthy productive life!"

                                    ________________________________
                                    From: c slamon <cslamon@gmail. <mailto:cslamon%40gmail.com> com>
                                    To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                                    Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 10:04:24 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming

                                    Many of the working families in our district do not have MUCH larger
                                    salaries than teachers. My husband works a damn hard physical job, much
                                    harder than a teacher and he makes about the same amount of money that a
                                    teacher makes. He's been on his job 15+ years and he does not have lifetime
                                    health benefits. In fact we pay over $5,000 per year for the health
                                    benefits that we do have, on top of what his employers pays for the
                                    premium. I understand that teaching is not as lucrative financially as
                                    other jobs with the same educational requirements but there are many nice
                                    perks that teachers enjoy that other professions do not, the generous
                                    vacation times (a week at Christmas, a week in February, a week in April and
                                    then the entire summer of 8 weeks). No one in the private sector gets
                                    that. None of the neighboring school districts offer lifetime health
                                    benefits because they understand that to do that would mean a trade off in
                                    programs for the students. They just can't afford it. Many of the
                                    neighboring districts require shared costs of the benefits that they offer.

                                    And finally, sometimes I think teachers think that the students are here
                                    because of them when it's really the other way around. The teachers are
                                    here because of the students, if we continue to suck funds from the programs
                                    then parents will continue to flee this district even more, our
                                    enrollement will decline further and more teachers will be layed off. There
                                    is a balance to everything and we have to work together to find it. As I
                                    said before, I want the teachers to do whatever is best for their individual
                                    situation just like I will do as parent when it comes time to deciding if I
                                    want to ride out this storm or bail.

                                    chris slamon

                                    On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Lucy <mrsgiusto@yahoo.
                                    <mailto:mrsgiusto%40yahoo.com> com> wrote:

                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Individuals in the private sector have a MUCH larger salary than we do. We
                                    > have to have a BA or BS, then we have to go through the credential program
                                    > for a year, student teach or intern for a year, and then we have to pay to
                                    > process our credentials, pay for tests to qualify for the programs, and
                                    many
                                    > other ancillary items that comes along with being a teacher.
                                    >
                                    > We lose teachers every year because with their education, they are able to
                                    > get jobs with much higher salaries in other industries. I will not be able
                                    > to afford to continue teaching in this district if I have a pay cut. I
                                    will
                                    > either have to go to another district or change my job type altogether.
                                    >
                                    > Many teachers are saying the same thing, so who do you want teaching your
                                    > children?
                                    >
                                    > Thank you,
                                    >
                                    > Lucy Giusto
                                    > Hercules Middle/High School
                                    >
                                    > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                                    <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                                    > <cslamon@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Francie,
                                    > > I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many families
                                    > > right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students
                                    > families
                                    > > too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the teachers
                                    > are
                                    > > being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health
                                    > benefits
                                    > > at all.
                                    > >
                                    > > I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual
                                    > situation
                                    > > but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want teachers to
                                    > make
                                    > > sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able to
                                    > retire
                                    > > and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute
                                    > because
                                    > > then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go
                                    > out
                                    > > into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to
                                    earn
                                    > an
                                    > > income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become
                                    > employed
                                    > > in another school district.
                                    > >
                                    > > Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime health
                                    > > benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this misinformation that
                                    > my
                                    > > benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away, the
                                    > > district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the costs. I
                                    > > believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why would you
                                    > > give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The teachers who
                                    > can
                                    > > retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get the
                                    > lifetime
                                    > > health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale. Please
                                    > > believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly to
                                    even
                                    > > have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way more than
                                    > > $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities of 600
                                    > > million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without believing
                                    that
                                    > > the house of cards will someday collapse.
                                    > >
                                    > > Chris Slamon
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the
                                    > biggest
                                    > > > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked
                                    > to
                                    > > > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it
                                    > means
                                    > > > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more
                                    > economically
                                    > > > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown
                                    of
                                    > > > increasing health care costs.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system, costs
                                    > are
                                    > > > going to continue to rise.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Francie
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com>
                                    ups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com><wccusdtalk%
                                    > 40yahoogroups.com>, c slamon
                                    >
                                    > > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract
                                    > agreement
                                    > > > they
                                    > > > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which
                                    > means
                                    > > > that
                                    > > > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits
                                    > without
                                    > > > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave
                                    > is
                                    > > > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the
                                    > middle of
                                    > > > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the
                                    > > > teachers
                                    > > > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to
                                    > pay
                                    > > > off
                                    > > > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income
                                    > to
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district
                                    > is
                                    > > > not
                                    > > > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the
                                    > amounts
                                    > > > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare
                                    > liabilities
                                    > > > of
                                    > > > > 600+ million dollars).
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either
                                    > way
                                    > > > > our kids loose.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Christina Slamon
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                    ------------------------------------

                                    Yahoo! Groups Links

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                    ----------


                                    No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                    Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                    Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.75/2516 - Release Date: 11/20/09 11:43:00


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Charles Rachlis
                                    The false argument that: because others are super exploited we should all be super exploited, is the downward spiral of capitalism forcing a resolution of
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Nov 21, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      The false argument that: "because others are super exploited we should all be super exploited," is the downward spiral of capitalism forcing a resolution of its crisis of declining rate of profits upon all of us, in its death agony. When they can ship jobs overseas and still send profits back to Wall Street there is no longer a need for the well paid worker at home. The consequence is a declining rate of compensation for workers in the States. When they (the big corporations) can set up manufacture in another country and kill union organizers to intimidate and keep the workers super exploited (as in Columbia or Honduras with the blessing and support of Obama) the end result is the destruction of the wage base in the advanced industrial countries. We have seen the working class families compensation decline steadily since the late 1970's. Today's minimum wage is below that of the 1950's. But compensation at the top is going up and up and up. So
                                      working class folks can not see that to end this downward spiral we must eliminate the top of the pyramid. That can be done in many ways but the ultimate task is to eliminate production for profit. That starts in the fight for our basic contract rights and to help all those other working folks in the same or worse situation as us to understand that unless we all fight together for full employment, free education, free quality health care, we will be isolated from each other, turned against each other and in the end we will all be in the poor house wondering how come we are failures.
                                      Chris Salmon has adopted the ideology of her class enemy and does not even recognize it. This is a sad state when working people turn on others who are struggling for a fair contract and say look my situation is worse so you should take less also. This is ultimately doing the job of those on the top of the pyramid to drive us all down to the base so they can scoop up more of the wealth into their coffers. We must invite Chris to abandon her abusers who try to atomize the working class with the ideology she is advocating. We must win Chris to help her exploited members of her family stand up and fight for better wages, benifits and conditions. Only in this way will she and her family overcome the atomizing effect of the bosses ideology which turns her from her class roots into a tool for the bosses. CHRIS COME HOME THE WORKING CLASS NEEDS FIGHTERS NOT SELL OUTS!

                                      Charles Rachlis



                                      ________________________________
                                      From: Tony Sustak <mtsustak@...>
                                      To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 1:28:03 AM
                                      Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming


                                      Eduardo,

                                      I agree.

                                      Margaret Browne

                                      _____

                                      From: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com] On
                                      Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez
                                      Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 4:10 PM
                                      To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming

                                      I continue to hear the argument that because others are suffering an
                                      injustice, we should suffer the same injustice. Instead of dragging people
                                      down because others are not being dealt with fairly, we should be working at
                                      pulling up all employees with poor situations. Lets stop this:" I don't got
                                      this so why should you?" and change our vision to: "Let's work together to
                                      make sure we all have what is necessary for a healthy productive life!"

                                      ____________ _________ _________ __
                                      From: c slamon <cslamon@gmail. <mailto:cslamon% 40gmail.com> com>
                                      To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com> ups.com
                                      Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 10:04:24 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming

                                      Many of the working families in our district do not have MUCH larger
                                      salaries than teachers. My husband works a damn hard physical job, much
                                      harder than a teacher and he makes about the same amount of money that a
                                      teacher makes. He's been on his job 15+ years and he does not have lifetime
                                      health benefits. In fact we pay over $5,000 per year for the health
                                      benefits that we do have, on top of what his employers pays for the
                                      premium. I understand that teaching is not as lucrative financially as
                                      other jobs with the same educational requirements but there are many nice
                                      perks that teachers enjoy that other professions do not, the generous
                                      vacation times (a week at Christmas, a week in February, a week in April and
                                      then the entire summer of 8 weeks). No one in the private sector gets
                                      that. None of the neighboring school districts offer lifetime health
                                      benefits because they understand that to do that would mean a trade off in
                                      programs for the students. They just can't afford it. Many of the
                                      neighboring districts require shared costs of the benefits that they offer.

                                      And finally, sometimes I think teachers think that the students are here
                                      because of them when it's really the other way around. The teachers are
                                      here because of the students, if we continue to suck funds from the programs
                                      then parents will continue to flee this district even more, our
                                      enrollement will decline further and more teachers will be layed off. There
                                      is a balance to everything and we have to work together to find it. As I
                                      said before, I want the teachers to do whatever is best for their individual
                                      situation just like I will do as parent when it comes time to deciding if I
                                      want to ride out this storm or bail.

                                      chrisslamon

                                      On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Lucy <mrsgiusto@yahoo.
                                      <mailto:mrsgiusto% 40yahoo.com> com> wrote:

                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Individuals in the private sector have a MUCH larger salary than we do. We
                                      > have to have a BA or BS, then we have to go through the credential program
                                      > for a year, student teach or intern for a year, and then we have to pay to
                                      > process our credentials, pay for tests to qualify for the programs, and
                                      many
                                      > other ancillary items that comes along with being a teacher.
                                      >
                                      > We lose teachers every year because with their education, they are able to
                                      > get jobs with much higher salaries in other industries. I will not be able
                                      > to afford to continue teaching in this district if I have a pay cut. I
                                      will
                                      > either have to go to another district or change my job type altogether.
                                      >
                                      > Many teachers are saying the same thing, so who do you want teaching your
                                      > children?
                                      >
                                      > Thank you,
                                      >
                                      > Lucy Giusto
                                      > Hercules Middle/High School
                                      >
                                      > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com> ups.com
                                      <wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com>, c slamon
                                      > <cslamon@... > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Francie,
                                      > > I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many families
                                      > > right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students
                                      > families
                                      > > too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the teachers
                                      > are
                                      > > being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health
                                      > benefits
                                      > > at all.
                                      > >
                                      > > I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual
                                      > situation
                                      > > but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want teachers to
                                      > make
                                      > > sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able to
                                      > retire
                                      > > and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute
                                      > because
                                      > > then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go
                                      > out
                                      > > into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to
                                      earn
                                      > an
                                      > > income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become
                                      > employed
                                      > > in another school district.
                                      > >
                                      > > Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime health
                                      > > benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this misinformation that
                                      > my
                                      > > benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away, the
                                      > > district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the costs. I
                                      > > believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why would you
                                      > > give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The teachers who
                                      > can
                                      > > retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get the
                                      > lifetime
                                      > > health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale. Please
                                      > > believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly to
                                      even
                                      > > have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way more than
                                      > > $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities of 600
                                      > > million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without believing
                                      that
                                      > > the house of cards will someday collapse.
                                      > >
                                      > > Chris Slamon
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@ ...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the
                                      > biggest
                                      > > > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked
                                      > to
                                      > > > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it
                                      > means
                                      > > > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more
                                      > economically
                                      > > > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown
                                      of
                                      > > > increasing health care costs.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system, costs
                                      > are
                                      > > > going to continue to rise.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Francie
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                      ups.com <wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com><wccusdtalk%
                                      > 40yahoogroups. com>, c slamon
                                      >
                                      > > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract
                                      > agreement
                                      > > > they
                                      > > > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which
                                      > means
                                      > > > that
                                      > > > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits
                                      > without
                                      > > > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave
                                      > is
                                      > > > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the
                                      > middle of
                                      > > > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the
                                      > > > teachers
                                      > > > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to
                                      > pay
                                      > > > off
                                      > > > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income
                                      > to
                                      > > > the
                                      > > > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district
                                      > is
                                      > > > not
                                      > > > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the
                                      > amounts
                                      > > > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare
                                      > liabilities
                                      > > > of
                                      > > > > 600+ million dollars).
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either
                                      > way
                                      > > > > our kids loose.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Christina Slamon
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                      ------------ --------- --------- ------

                                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                      ----------

                                      No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                      Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.75/2516 - Release Date: 11/20/09 11:43:00

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • c slamon
                                      Sorry Charles I ain t drinking the Kool aid. $600,000,000 in unfunded liabilities for healthcare. To that I say, please tell me exactly who is dragging whom
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Nov 21, 2009
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Sorry Charles I ain't drinking the Kool aid.

                                        $600,000,000 in unfunded liabilities for healthcare. To that I say, please
                                        tell me exactly who is dragging whom down, because in my mind, it's the kids
                                        who don't have a say or a vote that are being hurt the most. The public
                                        pensions are out of control and that is what is making us spiral to the
                                        bottom. We have cops and firefighters retiring at more than 100% of their
                                        salaries. Unless you are one of the blessed ones at the public trough, it
                                        is easy to see that this is unsustainable. Yes I value the work that
                                        teachers, cops and firefighters do. It is a necessity for communities to
                                        have those services and I gladly pay my taxes to support that. On top of
                                        that, I have volunteered thousands of hours on behalf of this school
                                        district, I have donated hundreds of dollars each year to my kids school and
                                        various other organizations in our community. Teachers should want a
                                        thousand parents like me but they don't because I am totally aware of what
                                        is happening in our school district, all because I do attend those meetings
                                        and pay attention. So please, no need to try and convert me. I have always
                                        believed that I am in charge of my own destiny, I am the captain of my own
                                        ship. I have a mind of my own and I can think for myself. I have always
                                        supported public education but at the same time I am very capable of
                                        educating my own child and it is my own responsibility first and foremost to
                                        do that.

                                        I am not worried about my family or my child, I have been fighting for all
                                        those parents who are too overwhelmed just trying to survive, for all those
                                        parents who don't want to be publicly slapped down for trying to speak their
                                        mind and for the kids who don't have a vote.

                                        Stick a fork in me, turn me over. I'm done.





                                        On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Charles Rachlis <crachlis@...> wrote:

                                        >
                                        >
                                        > The false argument that: "because others are super exploited we should all
                                        > be super exploited," is the downward spiral of capitalism forcing a
                                        > resolution of its crisis of declining rate of profits upon all of us, in its
                                        > death agony. When they can ship jobs overseas and still send profits back to
                                        > Wall Street there is no longer a need for the well paid worker at home. The
                                        > consequence is a declining rate of compensation for workers in the States.
                                        > When they (the big corporations) can set up manufacture in another country
                                        > and kill union organizers to intimidate and keep the workers super exploited
                                        > (as in Columbia or Honduras with the blessing and support of Obama) the end
                                        > result is the destruction of the wage base in the advanced industrial
                                        > countries. We have seen the working class families compensation decline
                                        > steadily since the late 1970's. Today's minimum wage is below that of the
                                        > 1950's. But compensation at the top is going up and up and up. So
                                        > working class folks can not see that to end this downward spiral we must
                                        > eliminate the top of the pyramid. That can be done in many ways but the
                                        > ultimate task is to eliminate production for profit. That starts in the
                                        > fight for our basic contract rights and to help all those other working
                                        > folks in the same or worse situation as us to understand that unless we all
                                        > fight together for full employment, free education, free quality health
                                        > care, we will be isolated from each other, turned against each other and in
                                        > the end we will all be in the poor house wondering how come we are failures.
                                        >
                                        > Chris Salmon has adopted the ideology of her class enemy and does not even
                                        > recognize it. This is a sad state when working people turn on others who are
                                        > struggling for a fair contract and say look my situation is worse so you
                                        > should take less also. This is ultimately doing the job of those on the top
                                        > of the pyramid to drive us all down to the base so they can scoop up more of
                                        > the wealth into their coffers. We must invite Chris to abandon her abusers
                                        > who try to atomize the working class with the ideology she is advocating. We
                                        > must win Chris to help her exploited members of her family stand up and
                                        > fight for better wages, benifits and conditions. Only in this way will she
                                        > and her family overcome the atomizing effect of the bosses ideology which
                                        > turns her from her class roots into a tool for the bosses. CHRIS COME HOME
                                        > THE WORKING CLASS NEEDS FIGHTERS NOT SELL OUTS!
                                        >
                                        > Charles Rachlis
                                        >
                                        > ________________________________
                                        > From: Tony Sustak <mtsustak@... <mtsustak%40sonic.net>>
                                        > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 1:28:03 AM
                                        > Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming
                                        >
                                        > Eduardo,
                                        >
                                        > I agree.
                                        >
                                        > Margaret Browne
                                        >
                                        > _____
                                        >
                                        > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com] On
                                        > Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez
                                        > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 4:10 PM
                                        > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com
                                        > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming
                                        >
                                        > I continue to hear the argument that because others are suffering an
                                        > injustice, we should suffer the same injustice. Instead of dragging people
                                        > down because others are not being dealt with fairly, we should be working
                                        > at
                                        > pulling up all employees with poor situations. Lets stop this:" I don't got
                                        > this so why should you?" and change our vision to: "Let's work together to
                                        > make sure we all have what is necessary for a healthy productive life!"
                                        >
                                        > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                        > From: c slamon <cslamon@gmail. <mailto:cslamon% <cslamon%25> 40gmail.com>
                                        > com>
                                        > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% <wccusdtalk%25> 40yahoogroups.
                                        > com> ups.com
                                        > Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 10:04:24 AM
                                        > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming
                                        >
                                        > Many of the working families in our district do not have MUCH larger
                                        > salaries than teachers. My husband works a damn hard physical job, much
                                        > harder than a teacher and he makes about the same amount of money that a
                                        > teacher makes. He's been on his job 15+ years and he does not have lifetime
                                        > health benefits. In fact we pay over $5,000 per year for the health
                                        > benefits that we do have, on top of what his employers pays for the
                                        > premium. I understand that teaching is not as lucrative financially as
                                        > other jobs with the same educational requirements but there are many nice
                                        > perks that teachers enjoy that other professions do not, the generous
                                        > vacation times (a week at Christmas, a week in February, a week in April
                                        > and
                                        > then the entire summer of 8 weeks). No one in the private sector gets
                                        > that. None of the neighboring school districts offer lifetime health
                                        > benefits because they understand that to do that would mean a trade off in
                                        > programs for the students. They just can't afford it. Many of the
                                        > neighboring districts require shared costs of the benefits that they offer.
                                        >
                                        > And finally, sometimes I think teachers think that the students are here
                                        > because of them when it's really the other way around. The teachers are
                                        > here because of the students, if we continue to suck funds from the
                                        > programs
                                        > then parents will continue to flee this district even more, our
                                        > enrollement will decline further and more teachers will be layed off. There
                                        > is a balance to everything and we have to work together to find it. As I
                                        > said before, I want the teachers to do whatever is best for their
                                        > individual
                                        > situation just like I will do as parent when it comes time to deciding if I
                                        > want to ride out this storm or bail.
                                        >
                                        > chrisslamon
                                        >
                                        > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Lucy <mrsgiusto@yahoo.
                                        > <mailto:mrsgiusto% <mrsgiusto%25> 40yahoo.com> com> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Individuals in the private sector have a MUCH larger salary than we do.
                                        > We
                                        > > have to have a BA or BS, then we have to go through the credential
                                        > program
                                        > > for a year, student teach or intern for a year, and then we have to pay
                                        > to
                                        > > process our credentials, pay for tests to qualify for the programs, and
                                        > many
                                        > > other ancillary items that comes along with being a teacher.
                                        > >
                                        > > We lose teachers every year because with their education, they are able
                                        > to
                                        > > get jobs with much higher salaries in other industries. I will not be
                                        > able
                                        > > to afford to continue teaching in this district if I have a pay cut. I
                                        > will
                                        > > either have to go to another district or change my job type altogether.
                                        > >
                                        > > Many teachers are saying the same thing, so who do you want teaching your
                                        > > children?
                                        > >
                                        > > Thank you,
                                        > >
                                        > > Lucy Giusto
                                        > > Hercules Middle/High School
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% <wccusdtalk%25>40yahoogroups. com>
                                        > ups.com
                                        > <wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com>, c slamon
                                        > > <cslamon@... > wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Francie,
                                        > > > I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many families
                                        > > > right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students
                                        > > families
                                        > > > too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the teachers
                                        > > are
                                        > > > being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health
                                        > > benefits
                                        > > > at all.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual
                                        > > situation
                                        > > > but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want teachers to
                                        > > make
                                        > > > sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able to
                                        > > retire
                                        > > > and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute
                                        > > because
                                        > > > then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go
                                        > > out
                                        > > > into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to
                                        > earn
                                        > > an
                                        > > > income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become
                                        > > employed
                                        > > > in another school district.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime health
                                        > > > benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this misinformation
                                        > that
                                        > > my
                                        > > > benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away, the
                                        > > > district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the costs. I
                                        > > > believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why would you
                                        > > > give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The teachers who
                                        > > can
                                        > > > retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get the
                                        > > lifetime
                                        > > > health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale. Please
                                        > > > believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly to
                                        > even
                                        > > > have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way more
                                        > than
                                        > > > $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities of 600
                                        > > > million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without believing
                                        > that
                                        > > > the house of cards will someday collapse.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Chris Slamon
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@ ...> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the
                                        > > biggest
                                        > > > > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked
                                        > > to
                                        > > > > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it
                                        > > means
                                        > > > > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more
                                        > > economically
                                        > > > > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown
                                        > of
                                        > > > > increasing health care costs.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system,
                                        > costs
                                        > > are
                                        > > > > going to continue to rise.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Francie
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% <wccusdtalk%25>40yahoogroups. com>
                                        > ups.com <wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com><wccusdtalk%
                                        > > 40yahoogroups. com>, c slamon
                                        > >
                                        > > > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract
                                        > > agreement
                                        > > > > they
                                        > > > > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which
                                        > > means
                                        > > > > that
                                        > > > > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits
                                        > > without
                                        > > > > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave
                                        > > is
                                        > > > > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the
                                        > > middle of
                                        > > > > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the
                                        > > > > teachers
                                        > > > > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to
                                        > > pay
                                        > > > > off
                                        > > > > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income
                                        > > to
                                        > > > > the
                                        > > > > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district
                                        > > is
                                        > > > > not
                                        > > > > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the
                                        > > amounts
                                        > > > > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare
                                        > > liabilities
                                        > > > > of
                                        > > > > > 600+ million dollars).
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse?
                                        > Either
                                        > > way
                                        > > > > > our kids loose.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Christina Slamon
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        > ----------
                                        >
                                        > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                        > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                        > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.75/2516 - Release Date: 11/20/09
                                        > 11:43:00
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                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • tag1022
                                        Charles, You keep attacking the people working the hardest on the tough issues at the district level. These screeds diminish dialogue necessary to find actual
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Nov 21, 2009
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Charles,

                                          You keep attacking the people working the hardest on the tough issues at the district level. These screeds diminish dialogue necessary to find actual solutions. If I thought for a minute occupying Portola would change minds in Sacramento, I'd be right there with you. The Bourgeoisie (er, voters, that is) overwhelmingly rejected meager tax increases in May, so expecting increased State resources seems like wishful thinking.

                                          I would assume most people on this list support more resources to pay for public services. We are not the folks you must persuade. Take your rhetoric to a TEA party event http://www.teapartypatriots.org/State/California or a meeting of a Glenn Beck fan club http://www.glennbeck.com/ . You will likely get a lively exchange of ideas.

                                          I sleep better knowing people like Chris, Cathy, Eduardo and Charley are throwing themselves at these issues. I don't have to share their world view to trust their intent. It pains me to see anyone attacked for voicing a reasonable concern.

                                          On an aside, the largest driver of corporations' drive for profit is the 8% per annum return public sector pension funds (their largest shareholders) must attain to meet future liabilities. It sucks that bad decisions were made in the past, and promises made may be undeliverable. Our politicians choose to represent rather than lead.

                                          Are teachers justly compensated? It's difficult to answer. Upper levels of teacher salaries approach regional median household income. The public sector is last to provide defined benefits, and much extra private sector compensation is in theory higher to offset the extra cost of purchasing benefits. It doesn't really matter in the aggregate. Many will be devastated by the proposed cuts, but most will probably pare back lifestyle, as have their fellow citizens.

                                          We should be gravely concerned that the wealthiest 1% received 70% of income growth in the last decade. How about a push to reinstate the estate (death) tax in California? How about taxing services in addition to goods? Consider this provocative piece on the California public sector http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_4_california.html before you get carried away.


                                          By and large, the elite in the last two decades overwhelmingly chose to school their children privately. Look at the Obamas and Clintons. As children of Presidents, their children would legacy in to any private college they would choose, so why avoid DC public schools? Sidwell Friends is a wonderful school, and a perfect learning environment. No public school reproduces anything like it. What will the nation be like when most of the political class come from selective private schools?

                                          We may be facing the end of public education, but that's not the same as compulsory education. The current fad our elite entertain is privatizing public schools, largely because they will not send their kids to public school. The Richmond High incident had an entire nation pontificating on where our community has gone wrong, with practically none of it near the mark.

                                          We must either change or be changed. Our kids are failing. Our middle schoolers have trouble with elementary math. That's completely unacceptable, but I have no idea what to do about it. Our kids have trouble with higher order thinking. What can we do? Fighting to preserve this failing system would seem a Pyrrhic victory.

                                          Todd Groves



                                          --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Charles Rachlis <crachlis@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > The false argument that: "because others are super exploited we should all be super exploited," is the downward spiral of capitalism forcing a resolution of its crisis of declining rate of profits upon all of us, in its death agony. When they can ship jobs overseas and still send profits back to Wall Street there is no longer a need for the well paid worker at home. The consequence is a declining rate of compensation for workers in the States. When they (the big corporations) can set up manufacture in another country and kill union organizers to intimidate and keep the workers super exploited (as in Columbia or Honduras with the blessing and support of Obama) the end result is the destruction of the wage base in the advanced industrial countries. We have seen the working class families compensation decline steadily since the late 1970's. Today's minimum wage is below that of the 1950's. But compensation at the top is going up and up and up. So
                                          > working class folks can not see that to end this downward spiral we must eliminate the top of the pyramid. That can be done in many ways but the ultimate task is to eliminate production for profit. That starts in the fight for our basic contract rights and to help all those other working folks in the same or worse situation as us to understand that unless we all fight together for full employment, free education, free quality health care, we will be isolated from each other, turned against each other and in the end we will all be in the poor house wondering how come we are failures.
                                          > Chris Salmon has adopted the ideology of her class enemy and does not even recognize it. This is a sad state when working people turn on others who are struggling for a fair contract and say look my situation is worse so you should take less also. This is ultimately doing the job of those on the top of the pyramid to drive us all down to the base so they can scoop up more of the wealth into their coffers. We must invite Chris to abandon her abusers who try to atomize the working class with the ideology she is advocating. We must win Chris to help her exploited members of her family stand up and fight for better wages, benifits and conditions. Only in this way will she and her family overcome the atomizing effect of the bosses ideology which turns her from her class roots into a tool for the bosses. CHRIS COME HOME THE WORKING CLASS NEEDS FIGHTERS NOT SELL OUTS!
                                          >
                                          > Charles Rachlis
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ________________________________
                                          > From: Tony Sustak <mtsustak@...>
                                          > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 1:28:03 AM
                                          > Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Eduardo,
                                          >
                                          > I agree.
                                          >
                                          > Margaret Browne
                                          >
                                          > _____
                                          >
                                          > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com] On
                                          > Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez
                                          > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 4:10 PM
                                          > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com
                                          > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming
                                          >
                                          > I continue to hear the argument that because others are suffering an
                                          > injustice, we should suffer the same injustice. Instead of dragging people
                                          > down because others are not being dealt with fairly, we should be working at
                                          > pulling up all employees with poor situations. Lets stop this:" I don't got
                                          > this so why should you?" and change our vision to: "Let's work together to
                                          > make sure we all have what is necessary for a healthy productive life!"
                                          >
                                          > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                          > From: c slamon <cslamon@gmail. <mailto:cslamon% 40gmail.com> com>
                                          > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com> ups.com
                                          > Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 10:04:24 AM
                                          > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming
                                          >
                                          > Many of the working families in our district do not have MUCH larger
                                          > salaries than teachers. My husband works a damn hard physical job, much
                                          > harder than a teacher and he makes about the same amount of money that a
                                          > teacher makes. He's been on his job 15+ years and he does not have lifetime
                                          > health benefits. In fact we pay over $5,000 per year for the health
                                          > benefits that we do have, on top of what his employers pays for the
                                          > premium. I understand that teaching is not as lucrative financially as
                                          > other jobs with the same educational requirements but there are many nice
                                          > perks that teachers enjoy that other professions do not, the generous
                                          > vacation times (a week at Christmas, a week in February, a week in April and
                                          > then the entire summer of 8 weeks). No one in the private sector gets
                                          > that. None of the neighboring school districts offer lifetime health
                                          > benefits because they understand that to do that would mean a trade off in
                                          > programs for the students. They just can't afford it. Many of the
                                          > neighboring districts require shared costs of the benefits that they offer.
                                          >
                                          > And finally, sometimes I think teachers think that the students are here
                                          > because of them when it's really the other way around. The teachers are
                                          > here because of the students, if we continue to suck funds from the programs
                                          > then parents will continue to flee this district even more, our
                                          > enrollement will decline further and more teachers will be layed off. There
                                          > is a balance to everything and we have to work together to find it. As I
                                          > said before, I want the teachers to do whatever is best for their individual
                                          > situation just like I will do as parent when it comes time to deciding if I
                                          > want to ride out this storm or bail.
                                          >
                                          > chrisslamon
                                          >
                                          > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Lucy <mrsgiusto@yahoo.
                                          > <mailto:mrsgiusto% 40yahoo.com> com> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Individuals in the private sector have a MUCH larger salary than we do. We
                                          > > have to have a BA or BS, then we have to go through the credential program
                                          > > for a year, student teach or intern for a year, and then we have to pay to
                                          > > process our credentials, pay for tests to qualify for the programs, and
                                          > many
                                          > > other ancillary items that comes along with being a teacher.
                                          > >
                                          > > We lose teachers every year because with their education, they are able to
                                          > > get jobs with much higher salaries in other industries. I will not be able
                                          > > to afford to continue teaching in this district if I have a pay cut. I
                                          > will
                                          > > either have to go to another district or change my job type altogether.
                                          > >
                                          > > Many teachers are saying the same thing, so who do you want teaching your
                                          > > children?
                                          > >
                                          > > Thank you,
                                          > >
                                          > > Lucy Giusto
                                          > > Hercules Middle/High School
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com> ups.com
                                          > <wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com>, c slamon
                                          > > <cslamon@ > wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Francie,
                                          > > > I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many families
                                          > > > right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students
                                          > > families
                                          > > > too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the teachers
                                          > > are
                                          > > > being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health
                                          > > benefits
                                          > > > at all.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual
                                          > > situation
                                          > > > but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want teachers to
                                          > > make
                                          > > > sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able to
                                          > > retire
                                          > > > and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute
                                          > > because
                                          > > > then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go
                                          > > out
                                          > > > into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to
                                          > earn
                                          > > an
                                          > > > income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become
                                          > > employed
                                          > > > in another school district.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime health
                                          > > > benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this misinformation that
                                          > > my
                                          > > > benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away, the
                                          > > > district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the costs. I
                                          > > > believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why would you
                                          > > > give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The teachers who
                                          > > can
                                          > > > retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get the
                                          > > lifetime
                                          > > > health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale. Please
                                          > > > believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly to
                                          > even
                                          > > > have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way more than
                                          > > > $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities of 600
                                          > > > million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without believing
                                          > that
                                          > > > the house of cards will someday collapse.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Chris Slamon
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@ ...> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the
                                          > > biggest
                                          > > > > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked
                                          > > to
                                          > > > > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it
                                          > > means
                                          > > > > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more
                                          > > economically
                                          > > > > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown
                                          > of
                                          > > > > increasing health care costs.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system, costs
                                          > > are
                                          > > > > going to continue to rise.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Francie
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                          > ups.com <wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com><wccusdtalk%
                                          > > 40yahoogroups. com>, c slamon
                                          > >
                                          > > > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract
                                          > > agreement
                                          > > > > they
                                          > > > > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which
                                          > > means
                                          > > > > that
                                          > > > > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits
                                          > > without
                                          > > > > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave
                                          > > is
                                          > > > > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the
                                          > > middle of
                                          > > > > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the
                                          > > > > teachers
                                          > > > > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to
                                          > > pay
                                          > > > > off
                                          > > > > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income
                                          > > to
                                          > > > > the
                                          > > > > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district
                                          > > is
                                          > > > > not
                                          > > > > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the
                                          > > amounts
                                          > > > > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare
                                          > > liabilities
                                          > > > > of
                                          > > > > > 600+ million dollars).
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either
                                          > > way
                                          > > > > > our kids loose.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Christina Slamon
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          > ----------
                                          >
                                          > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                          > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                          > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.75/2516 - Release Date: 11/20/09 11:43:00
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                                          >
                                        • Ramosla@aol.com
                                          Thank you Chris, I am one who greatly appreciates all that you do to represent the Parents at these meetings. FYI: The West County Times loves that people
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Nov 21, 2009
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Thank you Chris, I am one who greatly appreciates all that you do to
                                            represent the Parents at these meetings.

                                            FYI: The West County Times loves that people think that Fire Fighters
                                            retire at 100%+ salary but the fact is most don't. Not even close.
                                            There are a few, and mostly notably they are Chiefs and other Upper
                                            Administrators who do. Why? Because in part they control or know who
                                            does control, the numbers so they can "spike" the system. They are in
                                            fact stealing, in a legal way, of course. AND they make every other
                                            Fire Fighter struggling to survive in this County look bad. So, I know
                                            most people do not know all of the facts, and the paper will make
                                            never make public about why some regular Fire Fighters get so much
                                            over-time. Usually it is because of mismanagement, lack of hiring Full
                                            time employees: no benefits to worry about. Whether the Times wants to
                                            believe it or not, not everyone can be a Fire Fighter. Fire Fighters
                                            and other public servants work jobs to support the greater good. They
                                            make less per hour but that discrepancy is realized at the end of their
                                            career when they retire with a pension (that they paid into, (FYI: Fire
                                            Fighters do not get to collect SSI, no matter how much they have paid
                                            into it because of Windfall tax laws) and medical benefits. The real
                                            problem here is that Health Care must be affordable and available to
                                            all, period. If Health Care was affordable, almost all of the States,
                                            Counties, Cities, School Districts, and many others, would not be in
                                            the financial trouble they are in. Health Care costs will bankrupt
                                            this Country on many levels if we as the people do not insist that it
                                            be made available and affordable to all.

                                            I'll step down from the Soapbox to let another step up.

                                            Laura


                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: c slamon <cslamon@...>
                                            To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Sat, Nov 21, 2009 11:33 am
                                            Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] The Spiral to the bottom


                                            Sorry Charles I ain't drinking the Kool aid.

                                            $600,000,000 in unfunded liabilities for healthcare. To that I say,
                                            please
                                            tell me exactly who is dragging whom down, because in my mind, it's the
                                            kids
                                            who don't have a say or a vote that are being hurt the most. The public
                                            pensions are out of control and that is what is making us spiral to the
                                            bottom. We have cops and firefighters retiring at more than 100% of
                                            their
                                            salaries. Unless you are one of the blessed ones at the public trough,
                                            it
                                            is easy to see that this is unsustainable. Yes I value the work that
                                            teachers, cops and firefighters do. It is a necessity for communities
                                            to
                                            have those services and I gladly pay my taxes to support that. On top of
                                            that, I have volunteered thousands of hours on behalf of this school
                                            district, I have donated hundreds of dollars each year to my kids
                                            school and
                                            various other organizations in our community. Teachers should want a
                                            thousand parents like me but they don't because I am totally aware of
                                            what
                                            is happening in our school district, all because I do attend those
                                            meetings
                                            and pay attention. So please, no need to try and convert me. I have
                                            always
                                            believed that I am in charge of my own destiny, I am the captain of my
                                            own
                                            ship. I have a mind of my own and I can think for myself. I have always
                                            supported public education but at the same time I am very capable of
                                            educating my own child and it is my own responsibility first and
                                            foremost to
                                            do that.

                                            I am not worried about my family or my child, I have been fighting for
                                            all
                                            those parents who are too overwhelmed just trying to survive, for all
                                            those
                                            parents who don't want to be publicly slapped down for trying to speak
                                            their
                                            mind and for the kids who don't have a vote.

                                            Stick a fork in me, turn me over. I'm done.





                                            On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Charles Rachlis <crachlis@...>
                                            wrote:

                                            >
                                            >
                                            > The false argument that: "because others are super exploited we
                                            should all
                                            > be super exploited," is the downward spiral of capitalism forcing a
                                            > resolution of its crisis of declining rate of profits upon all of us,
                                            in its
                                            > death agony. When they can ship jobs overseas and still send profits
                                            back to
                                            > Wall Street there is no longer a need for the well paid worker at
                                            home. The
                                            > consequence is a declining rate of compensation for workers in the
                                            States.
                                            > When they (the big corporations) can set up manufacture in another
                                            country
                                            > and kill union organizers to intimidate and keep the workers super
                                            exploited
                                            > (as in Columbia or Honduras with the blessing and support of Obama)
                                            the end
                                            > result is the destruction of the wage base in the advanced industrial
                                            > countries. We have seen the working class families compensation
                                            decline
                                            > steadily since the late 1970's. Today's minimum wage is below that of
                                            the
                                            > 1950's. But compensation at the top is going up and up and up. So
                                            > working class folks can not see that to end this downward spiral we
                                            must
                                            > eliminate the top of the pyramid. That can be done in many ways but
                                            the
                                            > ultimate task is to eliminate production for profit. That starts in
                                            the
                                            > fight for our basic contract rights and to help all those other
                                            working
                                            > folks in the same or worse situation as us to understand that unless
                                            we all
                                            > fight together for full employment, free education, free quality
                                            health
                                            > care, we will be isolated from each other, turned against each other
                                            and in
                                            > the end we will all be in the poor house wondering how come we are
                                            failures.
                                            >
                                            > Chris Salmon has adopted the ideology of her class enemy and does not
                                            even
                                            > recognize it. This is a sad state when working people turn on others
                                            who are
                                            > struggling for a fair contract and say look my situation is worse so
                                            you
                                            > should take less also. This is ultimately doing the job of those on
                                            the top
                                            > of the pyramid to drive us all down to the base so they can scoop up
                                            more of
                                            > the wealth into their coffers. We must invite Chris to abandon her
                                            abusers
                                            > who try to atomize the working class with the ideology she is
                                            advocating. We
                                            > must win Chris to help her exploited members of her family stand up
                                            and
                                            > fight for better wages, benifits and conditions. Only in this way
                                            will she
                                            > and her family overcome the atomizing effect of the bosses ideology
                                            which
                                            > turns her from her class roots into a tool for the bosses. CHRIS COME
                                            HOME
                                            > THE WORKING CLASS NEEDS FIGHTERS NOT SELL OUTS!
                                            >
                                            > Charles Rachlis
                                            >
                                            > ________________________________
                                            > From: Tony Sustak <mtsustak@... <mtsustak%40sonic.net>>
                                            > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            > Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 1:28:03 AM
                                            > Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming
                                            >
                                            > Eduardo,
                                            >
                                            > I agree.
                                            >
                                            > Margaret Browne
                                            >
                                            > _____
                                            >
                                            > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogro
                                            ups.com] On
                                            > Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez
                                            > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 4:10 PM
                                            > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com
                                            > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming
                                            >
                                            > I continue to hear the argument that because others are suffering an
                                            > injustice, we should suffer the same injustice. Instead of dragging
                                            people
                                            > down because others are not being dealt with fairly, we should be
                                            working
                                            > at
                                            > pulling up all employees with poor situations. Lets stop this:" I
                                            don't got
                                            > this so why should you?" and change our vision to: "Let's work
                                            together to
                                            > make sure we all have what is necessary for a healthy productive
                                            life!"
                                            >
                                            > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                            > From: c slamon <cslamon@gmail. <mailto:cslamon% <cslamon%25>
                                            40gmail.com>
                                            > com>
                                            > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% <wccusdtalk%25>
                                            40yahoogroups.
                                            > com> ups.com
                                            > Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 10:04:24 AM
                                            > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming
                                            >
                                            > Many of the working families in our district do not have MUCH larger
                                            > salaries than teachers. My husband works a damn hard physical job,
                                            much
                                            > harder than a teacher and he makes about the same amount of money
                                            that a
                                            > teacher makes. He's been on his job 15+ years and he does not have
                                            lifetime
                                            > health benefits. In fact we pay over $5,000 per year for the health
                                            > benefits that we do have, on top of what his employers pays for the
                                            > premium. I understand that teaching is not as lucrative financially as
                                            > other jobs with the same educational requirements but there are many
                                            nice
                                            > perks that teachers enjoy that other professions do not, the generous
                                            > vacation times (a week at Christmas, a week in February, a week in
                                            April
                                            > and
                                            > then the entire summer of 8 weeks). No one in the private sector gets
                                            > that. None of the neighboring school districts offer lifetime health
                                            > benefits because they understand that to do that would mean a trade
                                            off in
                                            > programs for the students. They just can't afford it. Many of the
                                            > neighboring districts require shared costs of the benefits that they
                                            offer.
                                            >
                                            > And finally, sometimes I think teachers think that the students are
                                            here
                                            > because of them when it's really the other way around. The teachers
                                            are
                                            > here because of the students, if we continue to suck funds from the
                                            > programs
                                            > then parents will continue to flee this district even more, our
                                            > enrollement will decline further and more teachers will be layed off.
                                            There
                                            > is a balance to everything and we have to work together to find it.
                                            As I
                                            > said before, I want the teachers to do whatever is best for their
                                            > individual
                                            > situation just like I will do as parent when it comes time to
                                            deciding if I
                                            > want to ride out this storm or bail.
                                            >
                                            > chrisslamon
                                            >
                                            > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Lucy <mrsgiusto@yahoo.
                                            > <mailto:mrsgiusto% <mrsgiusto%25> 40yahoo.com> com> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Individuals in the private sector have a MUCH larger salary than we
                                            do.
                                            > We
                                            > > have to have a BA or BS, then we have to go through the credential
                                            > program
                                            > > for a year, student teach or intern for a year, and then we have to
                                            pay
                                            > to
                                            > > process our credentials, pay for tests to qualify for the programs,
                                            and
                                            > many
                                            > > other ancillary items that comes along with being a teacher.
                                            > >
                                            > > We lose teachers every year because with their education, they are
                                            able
                                            > to
                                            > > get jobs with much higher salaries in other industries. I will not
                                            be
                                            > able
                                            > > to afford to continue teaching in this district if I have a pay
                                            cut. I
                                            > will
                                            > > either have to go to another district or change my job type
                                            altogether.
                                            > >
                                            > > Many teachers are saying the same thing, so who do you want
                                            teaching your
                                            > > children?
                                            > >
                                            > > Thank you,
                                            > >
                                            > > Lucy Giusto
                                            > > Hercules Middle/High School
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk%
                                            <wccusdtalk%25>40yahoogroups.
                                            com>
                                            > ups.com
                                            > <wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com>, c slamon
                                            > > <cslamon@... > wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Francie,
                                            > > > I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many
                                            families
                                            > > > right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students
                                            > > families
                                            > > > too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the
                                            teachers
                                            > > are
                                            > > > being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health
                                            > > benefits
                                            > > > at all.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual
                                            > > situation
                                            > > > but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want
                                            teachers to
                                            > > make
                                            > > > sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able
                                            to
                                            > > retire
                                            > > > and go to another school district or work as a long-term
                                            substitute
                                            > > because
                                            > > > then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have
                                            to go
                                            > > out
                                            > > > into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue
                                            to
                                            > earn
                                            > > an
                                            > > > income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become
                                            > > employed
                                            > > > in another school district.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime
                                            health
                                            > > > benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this
                                            misinformation
                                            > that
                                            > > my
                                            > > > benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away,
                                            the
                                            > > > district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the
                                            costs. I
                                            > > > believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why
                                            would you
                                            > > > give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The
                                            teachers who
                                            > > can
                                            > > > retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get
                                            the
                                            > > lifetime
                                            > > > health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale.
                                            Please
                                            > > > believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly
                                            to
                                            > even
                                            > > > have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way
                                            more
                                            > than
                                            > > > $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities
                                            of 600
                                            > > > million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without
                                            believing
                                            > that
                                            > > > the house of cards will someday collapse.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Chris Slamon
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@ ...> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have
                                            the
                                            > > biggest
                                            > > > > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've
                                            talked
                                            > > to
                                            > > > > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December
                                            if it
                                            > > means
                                            > > > > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more
                                            > > economically
                                            > > > > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the
                                            unknown
                                            > of
                                            > > > > increasing health care costs.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system,
                                            > costs
                                            > > are
                                            > > > > going to continue to rise.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Francie
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk%
                                            <wccusdtalk%25>40yahoogroups.
                                            com>
                                            > ups.com <wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com><wccusdtalk%
                                            > > 40yahoogroups. com>, c slamon
                                            > >
                                            > > > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract
                                            > > agreement
                                            > > > > they
                                            > > > > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions;
                                            which
                                            > > means
                                            > > > > that
                                            > > > > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health
                                            benefits
                                            > > without
                                            > > > > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The
                                            retirement wave
                                            > > is
                                            > > > > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in
                                            the
                                            > > middle of
                                            > > > > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire,
                                            the
                                            > > > > teachers
                                            > > > > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not
                                            going to
                                            > > pay
                                            > > > > off
                                            > > > > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in
                                            income
                                            > > to
                                            > > > > the
                                            > > > > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The
                                            district
                                            > > is
                                            > > > > not
                                            > > > > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on
                                            the
                                            > > amounts
                                            > > > > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare
                                            > > liabilities
                                            > > > > of
                                            > > > > > 600+ million dollars).
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse?
                                            > Either
                                            > > way
                                            > > > > > our kids loose.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Christina Slamon
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                                            >
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            > ----------
                                            >
                                            > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                            > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                            > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.75/2516 - Release Date:
                                            11/20/09
                                            > 11:43:00
                                            >
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                                            >
                                            >
                                            >


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                            ------------------------------------

                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          • Tony Sustak
                                            Charles, Your explanation of the economic crisis in which we find ourselves is right on. Accepting and volunteering for impoverishment will not solve this
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Nov 21, 2009
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Charles,

                                              Your explanation of the economic crisis in which we find ourselves is right
                                              on. Accepting and volunteering for impoverishment will not solve this
                                              problem for workers. We must unite and fight in our class interest.

                                              Margaret Browne



                                              _____

                                              From: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                                              Behalf Of Charles Rachlis
                                              Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:29 AM
                                              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [wccusdtalk] The Spiral to the bottom





                                              The false argument that: "because others are super exploited we should all
                                              be super exploited," is the downward spiral of capitalism forcing a
                                              resolution of its crisis of declining rate of profits upon all of us, in its
                                              death agony. When they can ship jobs overseas and still send profits back to
                                              Wall Street there is no longer a need for the well paid worker at home. The
                                              consequence is a declining rate of compensation for workers in the States.
                                              When they (the big corporations) can set up manufacture in another country
                                              and kill union organizers to intimidate and keep the workers super exploited
                                              (as in Columbia or Honduras with the blessing and support of Obama) the end
                                              result is the destruction of the wage base in the advanced industrial
                                              countries. We have seen the working class families compensation decline
                                              steadily since the late 1970's. Today's minimum wage is below that of the
                                              1950's. But compensation at the top is going up and up and up. So
                                              working class folks can not see that to end this downward spiral we must
                                              eliminate the top of the pyramid. That can be done in many ways but the
                                              ultimate task is to eliminate production for profit. That starts in the
                                              fight for our basic contract rights and to help all those other working
                                              folks in the same or worse situation as us to understand that unless we all
                                              fight together for full employment, free education, free quality health
                                              care, we will be isolated from each other, turned against each other and in
                                              the end we will all be in the poor house wondering how come we are failures.

                                              Chris Salmon has adopted the ideology of her class enemy and does not even
                                              recognize it. This is a sad state when working people turn on others who are
                                              struggling for a fair contract and say look my situation is worse so you
                                              should take less also. This is ultimately doing the job of those on the top
                                              of the pyramid to drive us all down to the base so they can scoop up more of
                                              the wealth into their coffers. We must invite Chris to abandon her abusers
                                              who try to atomize the working class with the ideology she is advocating. We
                                              must win Chris to help her exploited members of her family stand up and
                                              fight for better wages, benifits and conditions. Only in this way will she
                                              and her family overcome the atomizing effect of the bosses ideology which
                                              turns her from her class roots into a tool for the bosses. CHRIS COME HOME
                                              THE WORKING CLASS NEEDS FIGHTERS NOT SELL OUTS!

                                              Charles Rachlis

                                              ________________________________
                                              From: Tony Sustak <mtsustak@sonic. <mailto:mtsustak%40sonic.net> net>
                                              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com
                                              Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 1:28:03 AM
                                              Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming

                                              Eduardo,

                                              I agree.

                                              Margaret Browne

                                              _____

                                              From: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com] On
                                              Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez
                                              Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 4:10 PM
                                              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming

                                              I continue to hear the argument that because others are suffering an
                                              injustice, we should suffer the same injustice. Instead of dragging people
                                              down because others are not being dealt with fairly, we should be working at
                                              pulling up all employees with poor situations. Lets stop this:" I don't got
                                              this so why should you?" and change our vision to: "Let's work together to
                                              make sure we all have what is necessary for a healthy productive life!"

                                              ____________ _________ _________ __
                                              From: c slamon <cslamon@gmail. <mailto:cslamon% 40gmail.com> com>
                                              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com> ups.com
                                              Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 10:04:24 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming

                                              Many of the working families in our district do not have MUCH larger
                                              salaries than teachers. My husband works a damn hard physical job, much
                                              harder than a teacher and he makes about the same amount of money that a
                                              teacher makes. He's been on his job 15+ years and he does not have lifetime
                                              health benefits. In fact we pay over $5,000 per year for the health
                                              benefits that we do have, on top of what his employers pays for the
                                              premium. I understand that teaching is not as lucrative financially as
                                              other jobs with the same educational requirements but there are many nice
                                              perks that teachers enjoy that other professions do not, the generous
                                              vacation times (a week at Christmas, a week in February, a week in April and
                                              then the entire summer of 8 weeks). No one in the private sector gets
                                              that. None of the neighboring school districts offer lifetime health
                                              benefits because they understand that to do that would mean a trade off in
                                              programs for the students. They just can't afford it. Many of the
                                              neighboring districts require shared costs of the benefits that they offer.

                                              And finally, sometimes I think teachers think that the students are here
                                              because of them when it's really the other way around. The teachers are
                                              here because of the students, if we continue to suck funds from the programs
                                              then parents will continue to flee this district even more, our
                                              enrollement will decline further and more teachers will be layed off. There
                                              is a balance to everything and we have to work together to find it. As I
                                              said before, I want the teachers to do whatever is best for their individual
                                              situation just like I will do as parent when it comes time to deciding if I
                                              want to ride out this storm or bail.

                                              chrisslamon

                                              On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Lucy <mrsgiusto@yahoo.
                                              <mailto:mrsgiusto% 40yahoo.com> com> wrote:

                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Individuals in the private sector have a MUCH larger salary than we do. We
                                              > have to have a BA or BS, then we have to go through the credential program
                                              > for a year, student teach or intern for a year, and then we have to pay to
                                              > process our credentials, pay for tests to qualify for the programs, and
                                              many
                                              > other ancillary items that comes along with being a teacher.
                                              >
                                              > We lose teachers every year because with their education, they are able to
                                              > get jobs with much higher salaries in other industries. I will not be able
                                              > to afford to continue teaching in this district if I have a pay cut. I
                                              will
                                              > either have to go to another district or change my job type altogether.
                                              >
                                              > Many teachers are saying the same thing, so who do you want teaching your
                                              > children?
                                              >
                                              > Thank you,
                                              >
                                              > Lucy Giusto
                                              > Hercules Middle/High School
                                              >
                                              > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com> ups.com
                                              <wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com>, c slamon
                                              > <cslamon@... > wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Francie,
                                              > > I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many families
                                              > > right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students
                                              > families
                                              > > too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the teachers
                                              > are
                                              > > being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health
                                              > benefits
                                              > > at all.
                                              > >
                                              > > I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual
                                              > situation
                                              > > but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want teachers to
                                              > make
                                              > > sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able to
                                              > retire
                                              > > and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute
                                              > because
                                              > > then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go
                                              > out
                                              > > into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to
                                              earn
                                              > an
                                              > > income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become
                                              > employed
                                              > > in another school district.
                                              > >
                                              > > Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime health
                                              > > benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this misinformation that
                                              > my
                                              > > benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away, the
                                              > > district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the costs. I
                                              > > believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why would you
                                              > > give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The teachers who
                                              > can
                                              > > retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get the
                                              > lifetime
                                              > > health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale. Please
                                              > > believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly to
                                              even
                                              > > have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way more than
                                              > > $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities of 600
                                              > > million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without believing
                                              that
                                              > > the house of cards will someday collapse.
                                              > >
                                              > > Chris Slamon
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@ ...> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the
                                              > biggest
                                              > > > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked
                                              > to
                                              > > > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it
                                              > means
                                              > > > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more
                                              > economically
                                              > > > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown
                                              of
                                              > > > increasing health care costs.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system, costs
                                              > are
                                              > > > going to continue to rise.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Francie
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                              ups.com <wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com><wccusdtalk%
                                              > 40yahoogroups. com>, c slamon
                                              >
                                              > > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract
                                              > agreement
                                              > > > they
                                              > > > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which
                                              > means
                                              > > > that
                                              > > > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits
                                              > without
                                              > > > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave
                                              > is
                                              > > > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the
                                              > middle of
                                              > > > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the
                                              > > > teachers
                                              > > > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to
                                              > pay
                                              > > > off
                                              > > > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income
                                              > to
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district
                                              > is
                                              > > > not
                                              > > > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the
                                              > amounts
                                              > > > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare
                                              > liabilities
                                              > > > of
                                              > > > > 600+ million dollars).
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse? Either
                                              > way
                                              > > > > our kids loose.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Christina Slamon
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                              11:43:00

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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Charles Rachlis
                                              Now we know the answer to the question where is John Galt . Glad you feel your captain of your own ship. But like the rest of us you sail on the sea of an
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Nov 21, 2009
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Now we know the answer to the question"where is John Galt". Glad you feel your captain of your own ship. But like the rest of us you sail on the sea of an unsustainable economic system which has long since ceased to be progressive. This system is now incapable of delivering the basics of a decent education, jobs for all, quality medical care or an end to imperial wars. As I wish no one ill will I hope your boat floats well because the seas though rough already are nothing compared to what is coming.

                                                Charles Rachlis

                                                ________________________________
                                                From: c slamon <cslamon@...>
                                                To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 11:33:34 AM
                                                Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] The Spiral to the bottom

                                                Sorry Charles I ain't drinking the Kool aid.

                                                $600,000,000 in unfunded liabilities for healthcare. To that I say, please
                                                tell me exactly who is dragging whom down, because in my mind, it's the kids
                                                who don't have a say or a vote that are being hurt the most. The public
                                                pensions are out of control and that is what is making us spiral to the
                                                bottom. We have cops and firefighters retiring at more than 100% of their
                                                salaries. Unless you are one of the blessed ones at the public trough, it
                                                is easy to see that this is unsustainable. Yes I value the work that
                                                teachers, cops and firefighters do. It is a necessity for communities to
                                                have those services and I gladly pay my taxes to support that. On top of
                                                that, I have volunteered thousands of hours on behalf of this school
                                                district, I have donated hundreds of dollars each year to my kids school and
                                                various other organizations in our community. Teachers should want a
                                                thousand parents like me but they don't because I am totally aware of what
                                                is happening in our school district, all because I do attend those meetings
                                                and pay attention. So please, no need to try and convert me. I have always
                                                believed that I am in charge of my own destiny, I am the captain of my own
                                                ship. I have a mind of my own and I can think for myself. I have always
                                                supported public education but at the same time I am very capable of
                                                educating my own child and it is my own responsibility first and foremost to
                                                do that.

                                                I am not worried about my family or my child, I have been fighting for all
                                                those parents who are too overwhelmed just trying to survive, for all those
                                                parents who don't want to be publicly slapped down for trying to speak their
                                                mind and for the kids who don't have a vote.

                                                Stick a fork in me, turn me over. I'm done.





                                                On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Charles Rachlis <crachlis@...> wrote:

                                                >
                                                >
                                                > The false argument that: "because others are super exploited we should all
                                                > be super exploited," is the downward spiral of capitalism forcing a
                                                > resolution of its crisis of declining rate of profits upon all of us, in its
                                                > death agony. When they can ship jobs overseas and still send profits back to
                                                > Wall Street there is no longer a need for the well paid worker at home. The
                                                > consequence is a declining rate of compensation for workers in the States.
                                                > When they (the big corporations) can set up manufacture in another country
                                                > and kill union organizers to intimidate and keep the workers super exploited
                                                > (as in Columbia or Honduras with the blessing and support of Obama) the end
                                                > result is the destruction of the wage base in the advanced industrial
                                                > countries. We have seen the working class families compensation decline
                                                > steadily since the late 1970's. Today's minimum wage is below that of the
                                                > 1950's. But compensation at the top is going up and up and up. So
                                                > working class folks can not see that to end this downward spiral we must
                                                > eliminate the top of the pyramid. That can be done in many ways but the
                                                > ultimate task is to eliminate production for profit. That starts in the
                                                > fight for our basic contract rights and to help all those other working
                                                > folks in the same or worse situation as us to understand that unless we all
                                                > fight together for full employment, free education, free quality health
                                                > care, we will be isolated from each other, turned against each other and in
                                                > the end we will all be in the poor house wondering how come we are failures.
                                                >
                                                > Chris Salmon has adopted the ideology of her class enemy and does not even
                                                > recognize it. This is a sad state when working people turn on others who are
                                                > struggling for a fair contract and say look my situation is worse so you
                                                > should take less also. This is ultimately doing the job of those on the top
                                                > of the pyramid to drive us all down to the base so they can scoop up more of
                                                > the wealth into their coffers. We must invite Chris to abandon her abusers
                                                > who try to atomize the working class with the ideology she is advocating. We
                                                > must win Chris to help her exploited members of her family stand up and
                                                > fight for better wages, benifits and conditions. Only in this way will she
                                                > and her family overcome the atomizing effect of the bosses ideology which
                                                > turns her from her class roots into a tool for the bosses. CHRIS COME HOME
                                                > THE WORKING CLASS NEEDS FIGHTERS NOT SELL OUTS!
                                                >
                                                > Charles Rachlis
                                                >
                                                > ________________________________
                                                > From: Tony Sustak <mtsustak@... <mtsustak%40sonic.net>>
                                                > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com <wccusdtalk%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 1:28:03 AM
                                                > Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming
                                                >
                                                > Eduardo,
                                                >
                                                > I agree.
                                                >
                                                > Margaret Browne
                                                >
                                                > _____
                                                >
                                                > From: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com] On
                                                > Behalf Of Eduardo Martinez
                                                > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 4:10 PM
                                                > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com
                                                > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming
                                                >
                                                > I continue to hear the argument that because others are suffering an
                                                > injustice, we should suffer the same injustice. Instead of dragging people
                                                > down because others are not being dealt with fairly, we should be working
                                                > at
                                                > pulling up all employees with poor situations. Lets stop this:" I don't got
                                                > this so why should you?" and change our vision to: "Let's work together to
                                                > make sure we all have what is necessary for a healthy productive life!"
                                                >
                                                > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                                > From: c slamon <cslamon@gmail. <mailto:cslamon% <cslamon%25> 40gmail.com>
                                                > com>
                                                > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% <wccusdtalk%25> 40yahoogroups.
                                                > com> ups.com
                                                > Sent: Fri, November 20, 2009 10:04:24 AM
                                                > Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: the retirement wave is coming
                                                >
                                                > Many of the working families in our district do not have MUCH larger
                                                > salaries than teachers. My husband works a damn hard physical job, much
                                                > harder than a teacher and he makes about the same amount of money that a
                                                > teacher makes. He's been on his job 15+ years and he does not have lifetime
                                                > health benefits. In fact we pay over $5,000 per year for the health
                                                > benefits that we do have, on top of what his employers pays for the
                                                > premium. I understand that teaching is not as lucrative financially as
                                                > other jobs with the same educational requirements but there are many nice
                                                > perks that teachers enjoy that other professions do not, the generous
                                                > vacation times (a week at Christmas, a week in February, a week in April
                                                > and
                                                > then the entire summer of 8 weeks). No one in the private sector gets
                                                > that. None of the neighboring school districts offer lifetime health
                                                > benefits because they understand that to do that would mean a trade off in
                                                > programs for the students. They just can't afford it. Many of the
                                                > neighboring districts require shared costs of the benefits that they offer.
                                                >
                                                > And finally, sometimes I think teachers think that the students are here
                                                > because of them when it's really the other way around. The teachers are
                                                > here because of the students, if we continue to suck funds from the
                                                > programs
                                                > then parents will continue to flee this district even more, our
                                                > enrollement will decline further and more teachers will be layed off. There
                                                > is a balance to everything and we have to work together to find it. As I
                                                > said before, I want the teachers to do whatever is best for their
                                                > individual
                                                > situation just like I will do as parent when it comes time to deciding if I
                                                > want to ride out this storm or bail.
                                                >
                                                > chrisslamon
                                                >
                                                > On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Lucy <mrsgiusto@yahoo.
                                                > <mailto:mrsgiusto% <mrsgiusto%25> 40yahoo.com> com> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Individuals in the private sector have a MUCH larger salary than we do.
                                                > We
                                                > > have to have a BA or BS, then we have to go through the credential
                                                > program
                                                > > for a year, student teach or intern for a year, and then we have to pay
                                                > to
                                                > > process our credentials, pay for tests to qualify for the programs, and
                                                > many
                                                > > other ancillary items that comes along with being a teacher.
                                                > >
                                                > > We lose teachers every year because with their education, they are able
                                                > to
                                                > > get jobs with much higher salaries in other industries. I will not be
                                                > able
                                                > > to afford to continue teaching in this district if I have a pay cut. I
                                                > will
                                                > > either have to go to another district or change my job type altogether.
                                                > >
                                                > > Many teachers are saying the same thing, so who do you want teaching your
                                                > > children?
                                                > >
                                                > > Thank you,
                                                > >
                                                > > Lucy Giusto
                                                > > Hercules Middle/High School
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% <wccusdtalk%25>40yahoogroups. com>
                                                > ups.com
                                                > <wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com>, c slamon
                                                > > <cslamon@... > wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Francie,
                                                > > > I understand the teachers concerns, it's a scary time for many families
                                                > > > right now; not just the teachers families but many of our students
                                                > > families
                                                > > > too. Many people in the private sector pay much more than the teachers
                                                > > are
                                                > > > being ask to pay, if they even have the opportunity to have health
                                                > > benefits
                                                > > > at all.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I want every teacher to do whatever is best for their individual
                                                > > situation
                                                > > > but I want them to do it with their eyes wide open. I want teachers to
                                                > > make
                                                > > > sure they are able to afford to retire. Teachers will not be able to
                                                > > retire
                                                > > > and go to another school district or work as a long-term substitute
                                                > > because
                                                > > > then they will jeopardize those lifetime benefits. They will have to go
                                                > > out
                                                > > > into the private sector to look for work if they want to continue to
                                                > earn
                                                > > an
                                                > > > income. They cannot keep their lifetime health benefits and become
                                                > > employed
                                                > > > in another school district.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Also please remember that teachers are not losing their lifetime health
                                                > > > benefits, they are being capped. I keep hearing this misinformation
                                                > that
                                                > > my
                                                > > > benefits are being taken away. No they are not being taken away, the
                                                > > > district is just asking the teachers to share in some of the costs. I
                                                > > > believe people have to look at the cost benefit analysis. Why would you
                                                > > > give up $70,000 in income to save $2,000 in benefits. The teachers who
                                                > > can
                                                > > > retire have at least 10 years of service to our district to get the
                                                > > lifetime
                                                > > > health benefits so they are the ones at the top of the payscale. Please
                                                > > > believe me when I say that many of our families would give dearly to
                                                > even
                                                > > > have health care coverage and they would be willing to pay way more
                                                > than
                                                > > > $2,000 per year. The district currently has unfunded liabilities of 600
                                                > > > million dollars, we cannot continue down that path without believing
                                                > that
                                                > > > the house of cards will someday collapse.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Chris Slamon
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Francie <fdkunaniec@ ...> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Many teachers have been doing the math, Chris. Those who have the
                                                > > biggest
                                                > > > > concerns are the ones with a spouse or families. Teachers I've talked
                                                > > to
                                                > > > > would like to finish out the year but will retire in December if it
                                                > > means
                                                > > > > their medical coverage is preserved. In many cases it's more
                                                > > economically
                                                > > > > beneficial to take a given (the lifetime medical) versus the unknown
                                                > of
                                                > > > > increasing health care costs.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Unless there are some serious changes in our health care system,
                                                > costs
                                                > > are
                                                > > > > going to continue to rise.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Francie
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro <mailto:wccusdtalk% <wccusdtalk%25>40yahoogroups. com>
                                                > ups.com <wccusdtalk% 40yahoogroups. com><wccusdtalk%
                                                > > 40yahoogroups. com>, c slamon
                                                > >
                                                > > > > <cslamon@> wrote:
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Now that the teachers have voted down the tentative contract
                                                > > agreement
                                                > > > > they
                                                > > > > > are back to working under the imposed contract conditions; which
                                                > > means
                                                > > > > that
                                                > > > > > any teacher that wants to preserve their lifetime health benefits
                                                > > without
                                                > > > > > any cost caps must retire by December 31, 2009. The retirement wave
                                                > > is
                                                > > > > > coming and it is going to be very disruptive - happening in the
                                                > > middle of
                                                > > > > > the school year. I truly hope that before deciding to retire, the
                                                > > > > teachers
                                                > > > > > crunch the numbers and realize that retiring early is not going to
                                                > > pay
                                                > > > > off
                                                > > > > > when you compare the amount of money that they will loose in income
                                                > > to
                                                > > > > the
                                                > > > > > amount they will save on health benefits with no caps. The district
                                                > > is
                                                > > > > not
                                                > > > > > taking away life time health benefits, just putting caps on the
                                                > > amounts
                                                > > > > > (which is needed because we already have unfunded healthcare
                                                > > liabilities
                                                > > > > of
                                                > > > > > 600+ million dollars).
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Strike/retirement wave - not sure which is going to be worse?
                                                > Either
                                                > > way
                                                > > > > > our kids loose.
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Christina Slamon
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
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                                                > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                                > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                                > Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.75/2516 - Release Date: 11/20/09
                                                > 11:43:00
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