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Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and his award

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  • imcookielady
    Again, Kevin, you get to heart of the matter with real facts. As you know I moved to NC, but still have family and friends still in WCCUSD so I still keep up
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 31, 2008
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      Again, Kevin, you get to heart of the matter with real facts. As you
      know I moved to NC, but still have family and friends still in WCCUSD
      so I still keep up on things. The county I live in is about the same
      size as WCCUSD as far as number of schools and students. They just
      built a high school out here for only $34 million. It includes the
      cost of purchasing land, separate fields for football, softball,
      baseball and band practice (that should tell you the size of the land
      purchase), state of the art computer lab and library, farm for animal
      sciences, state of the art kitchens for living skills (yes they still
      have home ec.), up to date auto body/mechanics labs, acoustical
      theatre for drama and concerts, and much more. All this and they
      still offer a wide range of vocational and college prep/AP courses.
      All this for less than half of what it cost to build the Taj Mahal, I
      mean El Cerrito High School. Oh by the way, they don't have PLA's!!
      I believe this shows how much the district could save by getting rid
      of PLA's and opening up true bidding. Imagine how much more could
      have been done in the district with $81 million, the difference
      between the cost of what NC spends to build a state of the art school
      and the WCCUSD spends.

      --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Rivard <kfrivard@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Tammy, the School Board did not FIGHT for PLA's. They forced them
      upon this community. The PLA's were not even written by the district
      staff or anyone affiliated with this district. They were written by
      the Trade Union officials who do not even live in this district. The
      Trade Unions wrote the PLA's so as to lock out Open Shop or Merit
      Shop businesses which make up a great deal of mom and pop
      construction businesses in West County.
      >
      > If you look at the construction companies and employees who work at
      the school sites you will find out the majority do not live in West
      County. The majority of the money is not being spent in our local
      economy. The schools will remain in West County but the multi
      millions of dollars being paid by the taxpayers of this area is
      helping the economies of the outlying suburbs.
      >
      > Ask to see the break down of companies and employees of those
      companies working at the school sites and truly find out where the
      money for material and wages is being spent. I think you will be
      shocked.
      >
      > The only way an employer and his employees can work under the PLA
      system is if they pay into the Union coffers and if the employers and
      employees do not join the Union and become vested then their DONATION
      to the unions, to have the privilege to work on the projects, stays
      in the Unions piggybank and the mom and pop construction company and
      their employees never see that money again. Request a copy of the PLA
      and read it. This is why most Open Shop and Merit Shop construction
      companies stay away from Union created PLA's. When I was
      investigating PLA's I talked with Colorado's lead person in managing
      PLA's and he was shocked to learn that our PLA's were written
      exclusively by the Unions and then voted on by our Board without ANY
      input by the local chapter of ABC, Associated Builders and
      Contractors, Inc. He told me that he brings together both Union and
      Open Shop and Merit Shop contractors to work out mutually agreeable
      contracts that benefit both parties but better to the point to
      benefit the taxpayers paying the bill.
      >
      > In my opinion the reason Ramsey was recognized was because he went
      up and down our State touting the benefits of the PLA's, influencing
      local elected bodies to institute PLA's. Ramsay and the Board forced
      upon the taxpayers of this district and caused, through the resulting
      lack of competition, costs to rise. If, only Unions are allowed to
      bid or any contractor that bids can only use Union rules then the
      competition is limited to those companies within the Union community
      or those that wish to play that game. Then the, I scratch your back
      and you scratch mine philosophy, comes into play, and the bidding is
      set by those few contractors that play this game and essentially
      monopolize the bidding.
      >
      > If you wish to see the other side of PLA's from the Open Shop and
      Merit Shop perspective go to ABC website, http://www.abc.org and play
      in their sandbox for awhile and read some studies of how PLA's have
      driven up costs on public construction sites.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To: wccusdtalk@...: tammeracampbell@...: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:00:21 -
      0700Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses it again?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I would like people to be honest and look at the other unions that
      people have received money and services from, say for example Local
      One and UTR. How can they be any different? Unions are unions whether
      they be trades, teachers, etc. Let's face it, it takes money to run a
      campaign and I for one would not want to go into debt for a thankless
      job that only pays $600/month and benefits of which I would not take.
      We need to get real, trade unions probably donated money because
      frankly they have benefited from the building programs. We employee
      local trades people, who spend their salaries in our local economies,
      and send their children to our local schools. Why is this picture
      wrong? Isn't this why the school board fought for PLAs? Just food for
      thought.Tammy Campbell--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Ralph Bedwell
      <bedwellr@...> wrote:> From: Ralph Bedwell <bedwellr@...>> Subject:
      [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses it again?> To:
      wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 8:19 PM> Ah,
      I see, thanks. Very interesting. Mr. Ramsey sure is> popular with>
      the building trades unions. Why is that?> > > > --- In
      wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn R.> Bailey" <lbailey143@>> wrote:>
      >> > A few examples for Pfeifer:> > > > Powell & Partners -- $5,000>
      > > > Don Todd Associates -- $5,000> > > > Independent PAC Local 188
      (Darrell Reese) -- $4,000 --> This> organization was investigated by
      the F.B.I. and the> F.P.P.C.> > > > The Seville Group -- $3,000> > >
      > Arthur Tam Associates -- $2,000> > > > I.B.E.W Martinez -- $1,000>
      > > > Specific examples for Kronenberg and Ramsey are> readily
      available at> the web site mentioned below: >
      http://www.baysidepta.org/pages/campaign2006.php> > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ralph Bedwell > >
      To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:16
      PM> > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses it> again?> > >
      > > > Really? Like who? > > > > --- In
      wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn R.> Bailey" <lbailey143@>> >
      wrote:> > >> > > Pfeifer's votes in 2004 cost around $1.05> to $1.10
      per vote, 87%> > paid by big money lobbyists. Kronenberg's and>
      Ramsey's votes in 2006> > were 99% paid by big money interests.> > >
      > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Linda > > > To:
      wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 1:01 PM>
      > > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses> it again?> > > >
      > > > > > How much school board candidates spent in 2006> per vote:>
      > > > > >> http://www.baysidepta.org/pages/campaign2006.php> > >
      Madeline Kronenberg $75,314 --- 20,632 votes => $3.65 per vote> > >
      Marguerite Meade $2,876 --- 10,163 votes => $0.28 per vote> > >
      Antonio Medrano $12,187 --- 16,943 votes => $0.72 per vote > > >
      Audrey Miles $2,921 --- 20,045 votes = $0.15> per> > > vote> > >
      Charles Ramsey * $132,600 --- 17,009 votes => $7.80 per vote> > > > >
      > Incomplete data to figure out how much each> vote cost them, I'd> >
      > guesstimate a bargain price of under 10¢ per> vote:> > > Robert W.
      Brower <$1,000 --- 9,606 votes => < 10¢ ?> > > Martin Gottlieb
      <$1,000 --- 5,639 votes => < 10¢ ?> > > Anton Jungherr <$1,000 ---
      8,747 votes => < 10¢ ?> > > > > > --- In
      wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph> Bedwell" <bedwellr@>> wrote:> > >
      >> > > > To what character is Mr. Ramsey being> assigned, Mel?> > > >
      > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Diamel@> wrote:> > > > >>
      > > > > Mr Bedwell, for me this "Charles> Ramsey loses it again" is
      true> > > > character assignation. If you feel that> Mr. Ramsey is a
      poor role> > > > model for our young people, which he is> not, you
      better keep> > them from> > > > visiting Congress at the state
      capitol in> Sacramento or> > Washington DC> > > > where I am today.>
      > > > > In regards to the meeting at DeJean ,> have you thought to>
      contact> > > > and ask the lady in brown from San Pablo> would she
      like to share> > with> > > > you what was really going on? We can't>
      continue to assume that all> > > > this went on because she spoke in
      favor of> the issue. > > > > > Being a diversity trainer, I am aware>
      that assumptions are based> > > > on?a lack of information.?I feel
      that Mr.> Ramsey is still on the> > board> > > > because WCCUSD
      voters continue to trust> his vision for our> > > > district.?Mr.
      Bedwell, have you taken> the?time to talk to Mr.> Ramsey> > > > in
      regards to your issues?> > > > > > > > > > Mel Collins> > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----> > > > > From: Ralph Bedwell
      <bedwellr@>> > > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com> > > > > Sent:
      Sat, 5 Jul 2008 2:57 pm> > > > > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles>
      Ramsey loses it again?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > Ramsey has been involved in SO many> incidents
      like this. Once> > or twice> > > > > might be a fluke, but it sure
      seems> to an outside observer> > that there> > > > > is a clear, long-
      term pattern of> behavior here. Obviously,> this is> > > > > VERY
      poor modeling for the young> people that those of us in the> > > > >
      trenches are trying so hard to keep> on the right track (a> > track
      that> > > > > does NOT include behavior of the type> that Ramsey has>
      > repeatedly been> > > > > involved with). Why is he still on> our
      school board?> > > > > > > > > > --- In
      wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com,> "Lynn R. Bailey"> <lbailey143@>> > > > >
      wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > I didn't see it, but> it's so true to
      character. I think it's> > worth> > > > > emailing Kim Wetzel to ask
      her if she> saw it. It must have> > happened> > > > > just a few feet
      from where she was> sitting.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----
      Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: reducingandreusing > > > > >
      > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July
      02, 2008> 8:12 PM> > > > > > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Charles> Ramsey
      loses it again?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At tonight's
      meeting at> DeJean, did anyone else see Charles> > Ramsey> > > > >
      walk > > > > > > across the room, shake his> finger in the face of
      the woman> > in brown > > > > > > from San Pablo and yell> "you
      betrayed me!"? All she did to> > elicit> > > > > that > > > > > > was
      to speak at the podium to> the county board of education> > > > >
      supporting > > > > > > placing ward elections on the> ballot. Was
      there some quid pro> > > quo she > > > > > > violated? She looked
      stunned,> with good reason: his demeaner> > was > > > > > >
      intimidating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this> message have been removed]
      > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message> have been removed]> >
      > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of
      this message have been> removed]> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-
      text portions of this message have been removed]> >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > _________________________________________________________________
      > With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you.
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    • Tammera Campbell
      Thank you Kevin for the information.  I will look into the PLAs.  I was under the impression that WCCUSD like the city of Richmond required that a percentage
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 1, 2008
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        Thank you Kevin for the information.  I will look into the PLAs.  I was under the impression that WCCUSD like the city of Richmond required that a percentage of those employed on public projects needed to be from this area.  Richmond has been doing this for years.
        Tammy


        --- On Thu, 7/31/08, Kevin Rivard <kfrivard@...> wrote:
        From: Kevin Rivard <kfrivard@...>
        Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and his award
        To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 6:19 PM













        Tammy, the School Board did not FIGHT for PLA's. They forced them upon this community. The PLA's were not even written by the district staff or anyone affiliated with this district. They were written by the Trade Union officials who do not even live in this district. The Trade Unions wrote the PLA's so as to lock out Open Shop or Merit Shop businesses which make up a great deal of mom and pop construction businesses in West County.



        If you look at the construction companies and employees who work at the school sites you will find out the majority do not live in West County. The majority of the money is not being spent in our local economy. The schools will remain in West County but the multi millions of dollars being paid by the taxpayers of this area is helping the economies of the outlying suburbs.



        Ask to see the break down of companies and employees of those companies working at the school sites and truly find out where the money for material and wages is being spent. I think you will be shocked.



        The only way an employer and his employees can work under the PLA system is if they pay into the Union coffers and if the employers and employees do not join the Union and become vested then their DONATION to the unions, to have the privilege to work on the projects, stays in the Unions piggybank and the mom and pop construction company and their employees never see that money again. Request a copy of the PLA and read it. This is why most Open Shop and Merit Shop construction companies stay away from Union created PLA's. When I was investigating PLA's I talked with Colorado's lead person in managing PLA's and he was shocked to learn that our PLA's were written exclusively by the Unions and then voted on by our Board without ANY input by the local chapter of ABC, Associated Builders and Contractors, Inc. He told me that he brings together both Union and Open Shop and Merit Shop contractors to work out mutually agreeable contracts that benefit both parties
        but better to the point to benefit the taxpayers paying the bill.



        In my opinion the reason Ramsey was recognized was because he went up and down our State touting the benefits of the PLA's, influencing local elected bodies to institute PLA's. Ramsay and the Board forced upon the taxpayers of this district and caused, through the resulting lack of competition, costs to rise. If, only Unions are allowed to bid or any contractor that bids can only use Union rules then the competition is limited to those companies within the Union community or those that wish to play that game. Then the, I scratch your back and you scratch mine philosophy, comes into play, and the bidding is set by those few contractors that play this game and essentially monopolize the bidding.



        If you wish to see the other side of PLA's from the Open Shop and Merit Shop perspective go to ABC website, http://www.abc org and play in their sandbox for awhile and read some studies of how PLA's have driven up costs on public construction sites.













        To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.comFrom: tammeracampbell@ yahoo.comDate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:00:21 -0700Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses it again?



        I would like people to be honest and look at the other unions that people have received money and services from, say for example Local One and UTR. How can they be any different? Unions are unions whether they be trades, teachers, etc. Let's face it, it takes money to run a campaign and I for one would not want to go into debt for a thankless job that only pays $600/month and benefits of which I would not take. We need to get real, trade unions probably donated money because frankly they have benefited from the building programs. We employee local trades people, who spend their salaries in our local economies, and send their children to our local schools. Why is this picture wrong? Isn't this why the school board fought for PLAs? Just food for thought.Tammy Campbell--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Ralph Bedwell <bedwellr@yahoo. com> wrote:> From: Ralph Bedwell <bedwellr@yahoo. com>> Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses it again?> To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro
        ups.com> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 8:19 PM> Ah, I see, thanks. Very interesting. Mr. Ramsey sure is> popular with> the building trades unions. Why is that?> > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Lynn R.> Bailey" <lbailey143@ ...>> wrote:> >> > A few examples for Pfeifer:> > > > Powell & Partners -- $5,000> > > > Don Todd Associates -- $5,000> > > > Independent PAC Local 188 (Darrell Reese) -- $4,000 --> This> organization was investigated by the F.B.I. and the> F.P.P.C.> > > > The Seville Group -- $3,000> > > > Arthur Tam Associates -- $2,000> > > > I.B.E.W Martinez -- $1,000> > > > Specific examples for Kronenberg and Ramsey are> readily available at> the web site mentioned below: > http://www.baysidep ta.org/pages/ campaign2006. php> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ralph Bedwell > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com > > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:16 PM> > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses it>
        again?> > > > > > Really? Like who? > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Lynn R.> Bailey" <lbailey143@ >> > wrote:> > >> > > Pfeifer's votes in 2004 cost around $1.05> to $1.10 per vote, 87%> > paid by big money lobbyists. Kronenberg's and> Ramsey's votes in 2006> > were 99% paid by big money interests.> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Linda > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com > > > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 1:01 PM> > > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses> it again?> > > > > > > > > How much school board candidates spent in 2006> per vote:> > > > > >> http://www.baysidep ta.org/pages/ campaign2006. php> > > Madeline Kronenberg $75,314 --- 20,632 votes => $3.65 per vote> > > Marguerite Meade $2,876 --- 10,163 votes => $0.28 per vote> > > Antonio Medrano $12,187 --- 16,943 votes => $0.72 per vote > > > Audrey Miles $2,921 --- 20,045 votes = $0.15> per> > > vote> > > Charles Ramsey * $132,600 --- 17,009
        votes => $7.80 per vote> > > > > > Incomplete data to figure out how much each> vote cost them, I'd> > > guesstimate a bargain price of under 10¢ per> vote:> > > Robert W. Brower <$1,000 --- 9,606 votes => < 10¢ ?> > > Martin Gottlieb <$1,000 --- 5,639 votes => < 10¢ ?> > > Anton Jungherr <$1,000 --- 8,747 votes => < 10¢ ?> > > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Ralph> Bedwell" <bedwellr@>> wrote:> > > >> > > > To what character is Mr. Ramsey being> assigned, Mel?> > > > > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, Diamel@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Mr Bedwell, for me this "Charles> Ramsey loses it again" is true> > > > character assignation. If you feel that> Mr. Ramsey is a poor role> > > > model for our young people, which he is> not, you better keep> > them from> > > > visiting Congress at the state capitol in> Sacramento or> > Washington DC> > > > where I am today.> > > > > In regards to the meeting at DeJean ,> have you thought to>
        contact> > > > and ask the lady in brown from San Pablo> would she like to share> > with> > > > you what was really going on? We can't> continue to assume that all> > > > this went on because she spoke in favor of> the issue. > > > > > Being a diversity trainer, I am aware> that assumptions are based> > > > on?a lack of information. ?I feel that Mr.> Ramsey is still on the> > board> > > > because WCCUSD voters continue to trust> his vision for our> > > > district.?Mr. Bedwell, have you taken> the?time to talk to Mr.> Ramsey> > > > in regards to your issues?> > > > > > > > > > Mel Collins> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Ralph Bedwell <bedwellr@>> > > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com> > > > > Sent: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 2:57 pm> > > > > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles> Ramsey loses it again?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramsey has been involved in SO many> incidents like this.
        Once> > or twice> > > > > might be a fluke, but it sure seems> to an outside observer> > that there> > > > > is a clear, long-term pattern of> behavior here. Obviously,> this is> > > > > VERY poor modeling for the young> people that those of us in the> > > > > trenches are trying so hard to keep> on the right track (a> > track that> > > > > does NOT include behavior of the type> that Ramsey has> > repeatedly been> > > > > involved with). Why is he still on> our school board?> > > > > > > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com,> "Lynn R. Bailey"> <lbailey143@ >> > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > I didn't see it, but> it's so true to character. I think it's> > worth> > > > > emailing Kim Wetzel to ask her if she> saw it. It must have> > happened> > > > > just a few feet from where she was> sitting.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: reducingandreusing > > > > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com > > > > >
        > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008> 8:12 PM> > > > > > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Charles> Ramsey loses it again?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At tonight's meeting at> DeJean, did anyone else see Charles> > Ramsey> > > > > walk > > > > > > across the room, shake his> finger in the face of the woman> > in brown > > > > > > from San Pablo and yell> "you betrayed me!"? All she did to> > elicit> > > > > that > > > > > > was to speak at the podium to> the county board of education> > > > > supporting > > > > > > placing ward elections on the> ballot. Was there some quid pro> > > quo she > > > > > > violated? She looked stunned,> with good reason: his demeaner> > was > > > > > > intimidating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this> message have been removed]> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message> have been removed]> > > > >>
        > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been> removed]> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> >



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      • Kevin Rivard
        The construction companies have to put forth a good faith effort in hiring local laborers. If they do not succeed in the suggested quota, but the companies put
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 1, 2008
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          The construction companies have to put forth a good faith effort in hiring local laborers.

          If they do not succeed in the suggested quota, but the companies put forth a good faith effort, then they have fulfilled their obligation.

          Good faith efforts with no bite end up with the low figures of local laborers.

          If the companies were fined $10,000 each day for every percentage point they were off in their quotas I bet we would see better percentages of local labor.

          For those who will say then the companies would just fill low level jobs with our local workers I answer this way, if from the beginning the companies had filled the low level jobs with our local young workers as apprentices and those workers had been at the sites from 2000 when Lavonnya De Jean Middle was started those young workers would have become Journeyman with 8 years of construction experience and would have moved up the ladder making room for more young workers to fill their spots and to start their careers in the trades, carpenters, plumbers, electricians.

          Ask to see how many local men and woman have been hired as apprentices by the companies building our schools and how many of the apprentices have come from outside West County.

          The records are in the trades offices, if Ramsey's friends will allow you to see them. Go all the way back to the beginning of the construction era in this district and ask why how many of the apprentices were not from this area and how many times over the years were the goals for local hires achieved.

          If the goals have been achieved please prove me wrong.

          I have not taken the time to look into this and I would be more than pleased to be proved a blooming idiot in spouting false rumors in this case because that would mean a lot of our local young men and women benefitted from the building program.

          But if, as I suspect, all that was achieved was a token percentage of local labor, to fulfill the good faith effort, than this whole community has been robbed by false promises by the school board. How many of our young people graduating from our schools might have benefitted from the billion dollar building program literally right in their own back yard had Ramsey put as much effort, in making sure his friends trained our youth on the job sites in our district, as he put in, making sure local jurisdictions implemented PLA's, in their communities up and down the State.

          Just a thought to ponder.




          To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.comFrom: tammeracampbell@...: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:18:48 -0700Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and his award




          Thank you Kevin for the information. I will look into the PLAs. I was under the impression that WCCUSD like the city of Richmond required that a percentage of those employed on public projects needed to be from this area. Richmond has been doing this for years.Tammy--- On Thu, 7/31/08, Kevin Rivard <kfrivard@...> wrote:From: Kevin Rivard <kfrivard@...>Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and his awardTo: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.comDate: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 6:19 PMTammy, the School Board did not FIGHT for PLA's. They forced them upon this community. The PLA's were not even written by the district staff or anyone affiliated with this district. They were written by the Trade Union officials who do not even live in this district. The Trade Unions wrote the PLA's so as to lock out Open Shop or Merit Shop businesses which make up a great deal of mom and pop construction businesses in West County. If you look at the construction companies and employees who work at the school sites you will find out the majority do not live in West County. The majority of the money is not being spent in our local economy. The schools will remain in West County but the multi millions of dollars being paid by the taxpayers of this area is helping the economies of the outlying suburbs.Ask to see the break down of companies and employees of those companies working at the school sites and truly find out where the money for material and wages is being spent. I think you will be shocked.The only way an employer and his employees can work under the PLA system is if they pay into the Union coffers and if the employers and employees do not join the Union and become vested then their DONATION to the unions, to have the privilege to work on the projects, stays in the Unions piggybank and the mom and pop construction company and their employees never see that money again. Request a copy of the PLA and read it. This is why most Open Shop and Merit Shop construction companies stay away from Union created PLA's. When I was investigating PLA's I talked with Colorado's lead person in managing PLA's and he was shocked to learn that our PLA's were written exclusively by the Unions and then voted on by our Board without ANY input by the local chapter of ABC, Associated Builders and Contractors, Inc. He told me that he brings together both Union and Open Shop and Merit Shop contractors to work out mutually agreeable contracts that benefit both partiesbut better to the point to benefit the taxpayers paying the bill.In my opinion the reason Ramsey was recognized was because he went up and down our State touting the benefits of the PLA's, influencing local elected bodies to institute PLA's. Ramsay and the Board forced upon the taxpayers of this district and caused, through the resulting lack of competition, costs to rise. If, only Unions are allowed to bid or any contractor that bids can only use Union rules then the competition is limited to those companies within the Union community or those that wish to play that game. Then the, I scratch your back and you scratch mine philosophy, comes into play, and the bidding is set by those few contractors that play this game and essentially monopolize the bidding.If you wish to see the other side of PLA's from the Open Shop and Merit Shop perspective go to ABC website, http://www.abc org and play in their sandbox for awhile and read some studies of how PLA's have driven up costs on public construction sites.To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.comFrom: tammeracampbell@ yahoo.comDate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:00:21 -0700Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses it again?I would like people to be honest and look at the other unions that people have received money and services from, say for example Local One and UTR. How can they be any different? Unions are unions whether they be trades, teachers, etc. Let's face it, it takes money to run a campaign and I for one would not want to go into debt for a thankless job that only pays $600/month and benefits of which I would not take. We need to get real, trade unions probably donated money because frankly they have benefited from the building programs. We employee local trades people, who spend their salaries in our local economies, and send their children to our local schools. Why is this picture wrong? Isn't this why the school board fought for PLAs? Just food for thought.Tammy Campbell--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Ralph Bedwell <bedwellr@yahoo. com> wrote:> From: Ralph Bedwell <bedwellr@yahoo. com>> Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses it again?> To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 8:19 PM> Ah, I see, thanks. Very interesting. Mr. Ramsey sure is> popular with> the building trades unions. Why is that?> > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Lynn R.> Bailey" <lbailey143@ ...>> wrote:> >> > A few examples for Pfeifer:> > > > Powell & Partners -- $5,000> > > > Don Todd Associates -- $5,000> > > > Independent PAC Local 188 (Darrell Reese) -- $4,000 --> This> organization was investigated by the F.B.I. and the> F.P.P.C.> > > > The Seville Group -- $3,000> > > > Arthur Tam Associates -- $2,000> > > > I.B.E.W Martinez -- $1,000> > > > Specific examples for Kronenberg and Ramsey are> readily available at> the web site mentioned below: > http://www.baysidep ta.org/pages/ campaign2006. php> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ralph Bedwell > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com > > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:16 PM> > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses it>again?> > > > > > Really? Like who? > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Lynn R.> Bailey" <lbailey143@ >> > wrote:> > >> > > Pfeifer's votes in 2004 cost around $1.05> to $1.10 per vote, 87%> > paid by big money lobbyists. Kronenberg's and> Ramsey's votes in 2006> > were 99% paid by big money interests.> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Linda > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com > > > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 1:01 PM> > > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses> it again?> > > > > > > > > How much school board candidates spent in 2006> per vote:> > > > > >> http://www.baysidep ta.org/pages/ campaign2006. php> > > Madeline Kronenberg $75,314 --- 20,632 votes => $3.65 per vote> > > Marguerite Meade $2,876 --- 10,163 votes => $0.28 per vote> > > Antonio Medrano $12,187 --- 16,943 votes => $0.72 per vote > > > Audrey Miles $2,921 --- 20,045 votes = $0.15> per> > > vote> > > Charles Ramsey * $132,600 --- 17,009votes => $7.80 per vote> > > > > > Incomplete data to figure out how much each> vote cost them, I'd> > > guesstimate a bargain price of under 10¢ per> vote:> > > Robert W. Brower <$1,000 --- 9,606 votes => < 10¢ ?> > > Martin Gottlieb <$1,000 --- 5,639 votes => < 10¢ ?> > > Anton Jungherr <$1,000 --- 8,747 votes => < 10¢ ?> > > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Ralph> Bedwell" <bedwellr@>> wrote:> > > >> > > > To what character is Mr. Ramsey being> assigned, Mel?> > > > > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, Diamel@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Mr Bedwell, for me this "Charles> Ramsey loses it again" is true> > > > character assignation. If you feel that> Mr. Ramsey is a poor role> > > > model for our young people, which he is> not, you better keep> > them from> > > > visiting Congress at the state capitol in> Sacramento or> > Washington DC> > > > where I am today.> > > > > In regards to the meeting at DeJean ,> have you thought to>contact> > > > and ask the lady in brown from San Pablo> would she like to share> > with> > > > you what was really going on? We can't> continue to assume that all> > > > this went on because she spoke in favor of> the issue. > > > > > Being a diversity trainer, I am aware> that assumptions are based> > > > on?a lack of information. ?I feel that Mr.> Ramsey is still on the> > board> > > > because WCCUSD voters continue to trust> his vision for our> > > > district.?Mr. Bedwell, have you taken> the?time to talk to Mr.> Ramsey> > > > in regards to your issues?> > > > > > > > > > Mel Collins> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Ralph Bedwell <bedwellr@>> > > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com> > > > > Sent: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 2:57 pm> > > > > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles> Ramsey loses it again?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramsey has been involved in SO many> incidents like this.Once> > or twice> > > > > might be a fluke, but it sure seems> to an outside observer> > that there> > > > > is a clear, long-term pattern of> behavior here. Obviously,> this is> > > > > VERY poor modeling for the young> people that those of us in the> > > > > trenches are trying so hard to keep> on the right track (a> > track that> > > > > does NOT include behavior of the type> that Ramsey has> > repeatedly been> > > > > involved with). Why is he still on> our school board?> > > > > > > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com,> "Lynn R. Bailey"> <lbailey143@ >> > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > I didn't see it, but> it's so true to character. I think it's> > worth> > > > > emailing Kim Wetzel to ask her if she> saw it. It must have> > happened> > > > > just a few feet from where she was> sitting.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: reducingandreusing > > > > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com > > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008> 8:12 PM> > > > > > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Charles> Ramsey loses it again?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At tonight's meeting at> DeJean, did anyone else see Charles> > Ramsey> > > > > walk > > > > > > across the room, shake his> finger in the face of the woman> > in brown > > > > > > from San Pablo and yell> "you betrayed me!"? All she did to> > elicit> > > > > that > > > > > > was to speak at the podium to> the county board of education> > > > > supporting > > > > > > placing ward elections on the> ballot. Was there some quid pro> > > quo she > > > > > > violated? She looked stunned,> with good reason: his demeaner> > was > > > > > > intimidating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this> message have been removed]> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message> have been removed]> > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been> removed]> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you.http://www.windowsl ive.com/mobile/ overview. html?ocid= TXT_TAGLM_ WL_mobile_ 072008[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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        • Ralph Bedwell
          Kevin writes: ...if from the beginning the companies had filled the low level jobs with our local young workers as apprentices and those workers had been at
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 2, 2008
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            Kevin writes: "...if from the beginning the companies had filled the low
            level jobs with our local young workers as apprentices and those workers
            had been at the sites from 2000 when Lavonnya De Jean Middle was started
            those young workers would have become Journeyman with 8 years of
            construction experience and would have moved up the ladder making room
            for more young workers to fill their spots and to start their careers in
            the trades, carpenters, plumbers, electricians. "

            This is a good point and one that I agree with. These are union jobs,
            correct? It's worth noting that those 8-year Journeymen union tradesmen
            that Kevin describes above would now be making more per hour than WCCUSD
            teachers with the same experience, including benefits (and that doesn't
            even take into account the fact that the carpenters could start right
            out of high school, whereas the teachers had to put in six years of
            college first). And people wonder why it is so hard to find and
            (especially to) retain good teachers...


            --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Rivard <kfrivard@...> wrote:
            >
            > The construction companies have to put forth a good faith effort in
            hiring local laborers.
            >
            > If they do not succeed in the suggested quota, but the companies put
            forth a good faith effort, then they have fulfilled their obligation.
            >
            > Good faith efforts with no bite end up with the low figures of local
            laborers.
            >
            > If the companies were fined $10,000 each day for every percentage
            point they were off in their quotas I bet we would see better
            percentages of local labor.
            >
            > For those who will say then the companies would just fill low level
            jobs with our local workers I answer this way, if from the beginning the
            companies had filled the low level jobs with our local young workers as
            apprentices and those workers had been at the sites from 2000 when
            Lavonnya De Jean Middle was started those young workers would have
            become Journeyman with 8 years of construction experience and would have
            moved up the ladder making room for more young workers to fill their
            spots and to start their careers in the trades, carpenters, plumbers,
            electricians.
            >
            > Ask to see how many local men and woman have been hired as apprentices
            by the companies building our schools and how many of the apprentices
            have come from outside West County.
            >
            > The records are in the trades offices, if Ramsey's friends will allow
            you to see them. Go all the way back to the beginning of the
            construction era in this district and ask why how many of the
            apprentices were not from this area and how many times over the years
            were the goals for local hires achieved.
            >
            > If the goals have been achieved please prove me wrong.
            >
            > I have not taken the time to look into this and I would be more than
            pleased to be proved a blooming idiot in spouting false rumors in this
            case because that would mean a lot of our local young men and women
            benefitted from the building program.
            >
            > But if, as I suspect, all that was achieved was a token percentage of
            local labor, to fulfill the good faith effort, than this whole community
            has been robbed by false promises by the school board. How many of our
            young people graduating from our schools might have benefitted from the
            billion dollar building program literally right in their own back yard
            had Ramsey put as much effort, in making sure his friends trained our
            youth on the job sites in our district, as he put in, making sure local
            jurisdictions implemented PLA's, in their communities up and down the
            State.
            >
            > Just a thought to ponder.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To: wccusdtalk@...: tammeracampbell@...: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:18:48
            -0700Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and his award
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Thank you Kevin for the information. I will look into the PLAs. I
            was under the impression that WCCUSD like the city of Richmond required
            that a percentage of those employed on public projects needed to be from
            this area. Richmond has been doing this for years.Tammy--- On Thu,
            7/31/08, Kevin Rivard kfrivard@... wrote:From: Kevin Rivard
            kfrivard@...Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and his
            awardTo: wccusdtalk@...: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 6:19 PMTammy, the
            School Board did not FIGHT for PLA's. They forced them upon this
            community. The PLA's were not even written by the district staff or
            anyone affiliated with this district. They were written by the Trade
            Union officials who do not even live in this district. The Trade Unions
            wrote the PLA's so as to lock out Open Shop or Merit Shop businesses
            which make up a great deal of mom and pop construction businesses in
            West County. If you look at the construction companies and employees who
            work at the school sites you will find out the majority do not live in
            West County. The majority of the money is not being spent in our local
            economy. The schools will remain in West County but the multi millions
            of dollars being paid by the taxpayers of this area is helping the
            economies of the outlying suburbs.Ask to see the break down of companies
            and employees of those companies working at the school sites and truly
            find out where the money for material and wages is being spent. I think
            you will be shocked.The only way an employer and his employees can work
            under the PLA system is if they pay into the Union coffers and if the
            employers and employees do not join the Union and become vested then
            their DONATION to the unions, to have the privilege to work on the
            projects, stays in the Unions piggybank and the mom and pop construction
            company and their employees never see that money again. Request a copy
            of the PLA and read it. This is why most Open Shop and Merit Shop
            construction companies stay away from Union created PLA's. When I was
            investigating PLA's I talked with Colorado's lead person in managing
            PLA's and he was shocked to learn that our PLA's were written
            exclusively by the Unions and then voted on by our Board without ANY
            input by the local chapter of ABC, Associated Builders and Contractors,
            Inc. He told me that he brings together both Union and Open Shop and
            Merit Shop contractors to work out mutually agreeable contracts that
            benefit both partiesbut better to the point to benefit the taxpayers
            paying the bill.In my opinion the reason Ramsey was recognized was
            because he went up and down our State touting the benefits of the PLA's,
            influencing local elected bodies to institute PLA's. Ramsay and the
            Board forced upon the taxpayers of this district and caused, through the
            resulting lack of competition, costs to rise. If, only Unions are
            allowed to bid or any contractor that bids can only use Union rules then
            the competition is limited to those companies within the Union community
            or those that wish to play that game. Then the, I scratch your back and
            you scratch mine philosophy, comes into play, and the bidding is set by
            those few contractors that play this game and essentially monopolize the
            bidding.If you wish to see the other side of PLA's from the Open Shop
            and Merit Shop perspective go to ABC website, http://www.abc org and
            play in their sandbox for awhile and read some studies of how PLA's have
            driven up costs on public construction sites.To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro
            ups.comFrom: tammeracampbell@ yahoo.comDate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:00:21
            -0700Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses it again?I would
            like people to be honest and look at the other unions that people have
            received money and services from, say for example Local One and UTR. How
            can they be any different? Unions are unions whether they be trades,
            teachers, etc. Let's face it, it takes money to run a campaign and I for
            one would not want to go into debt for a thankless job that only pays
            $600/month and benefits of which I would not take. We need to get real,
            trade unions probably donated money because frankly they have benefited
            from the building programs. We employee local trades people, who spend
            their salaries in our local economies, and send their children to our
            local schools. Why is this picture wrong? Isn't this why the school
            board fought for PLAs? Just food for thought.Tammy Campbell--- On Mon,
            7/28/08, Ralph Bedwell bedwellr@yahoo. com> wrote:> From: Ralph Bedwell
            bedwellr@yahoo. com>> Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses it
            again?> To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 8:19
            PM> Ah, I see, thanks. Very interesting. Mr. Ramsey sure is> popular
            with> the building trades unions. Why is that?> > > > --- In
            wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Lynn R.> Bailey" <lbailey143@ ...>>
            wrote:> >> > A few examples for Pfeifer:> > > > Powell & Partners --
            $5,000> > > > Don Todd Associates -- $5,000> > > > Independent PAC Local
            188 (Darrell Reese) -- $4,000 --> This> organization was investigated by
            the F.B.I. and the> F.P.P.C.> > > > The Seville Group -- $3,000> > > >
            Arthur Tam Associates -- $2,000> > > > I.B.E.W Martinez -- $1,000> > > >
            Specific examples for Kronenberg and Ramsey are> readily available at>
            the web site mentioned below: > http://www.baysidep ta.org/pages/
            campaign2006. php> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message
            ----- > > From: Ralph Bedwell > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com > >
            Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:16 PM> > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles
            Ramsey loses it>again?> > > > > > Really? Like who? > > > > --- In
            wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Lynn R.> Bailey" <lbailey143@ >> > wrote:>
            > >> > > Pfeifer's votes in 2004 cost around $1.05> to $1.10 per vote,
            87%> > paid by big money lobbyists. Kronenberg's and> Ramsey's votes in
            2006> > were 99% paid by big money interests.> > > > > > > > > -----
            Original Message ----- > > > From: Linda > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro
            ups.com > > > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 1:01 PM> > > Subject:
            [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses> it again?> > > > > > > > > How
            much school board candidates spent in 2006> per vote:> > > > > >>
            http://www.baysidep ta.org/pages/ campaign2006. php> > > Madeline
            Kronenberg $75,314 --- 20,632 votes => $3.65 per vote> > > Marguerite
            Meade $2,876 --- 10,163 votes => $0.28 per vote> > > Antonio Medrano
            $12,187 --- 16,943 votes => $0.72 per vote > > > Audrey Miles $2,921 ---
            20,045 votes = $0.15> per> > > vote> > > Charles Ramsey * $132,600 ---
            17,009votes => $7.80 per vote> > > > > > Incomplete data to figure out
            how much each> vote cost them, I'd> > > guesstimate a bargain price of
            under 10¢ per> vote:> > > Robert W. Brower <$1,000 --- 9,606 votes =>
            < 10¢ ?> > > Martin Gottlieb <$1,000 --- 5,639 votes => < 10¢ ?> >
            > Anton Jungherr <$1,000 --- 8,747 votes => < 10¢ ?> > > > > > --- In
            wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Ralph> Bedwell" <bedwellr@>> wrote:> > >
            >> > > > To what character is Mr. Ramsey being> assigned, Mel?> > > > >
            > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, Diamel@> wrote:> > > > >> > >
            > > Mr Bedwell, for me this "Charles> Ramsey loses it again" is true> >
            > > character assignation. If you feel that> Mr. Ramsey is a poor role>
            > > > model for our young people, which he is> not, you better keep> >
            them from> > > > visiting Congress at the state capitol in> Sacramento
            or> > Washington DC> > > > where I am today.> > > > > In regards to the
            meeting at DeJean ,> have you thought to>contact> > > > and ask the lady
            in brown from San Pablo> would she like to share> > with> > > > you what
            was really going on? We can't> continue to assume that all> > > > this
            went on because she spoke in favor of> the issue. > > > > > Being a
            diversity trainer, I am aware> that assumptions are based> > > > on?a
            lack of information. ?I feel that Mr.> Ramsey is still on the> > board>
            > > > because WCCUSD voters continue to trust> his vision for our> > > >
            district.?Mr. Bedwell, have you taken> the?time to talk to Mr.> Ramsey>
            > > > in regards to your issues?> > > > > > > > > > Mel Collins> > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Ralph
            Bedwell <bedwellr@>> > > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com> > > > >
            Sent: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 2:57 pm> > > > > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re:
            Charles> Ramsey loses it again?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramsey has been involved in SO many>
            incidents like this.Once> > or twice> > > > > might be a fluke, but it
            sure seems> to an outside observer> > that there> > > > > is a clear,
            long-term pattern of> behavior here. Obviously,> this is> > > > > VERY
            poor modeling for the young> people that those of us in the> > > > >
            trenches are trying so hard to keep> on the right track (a> > track
            that> > > > > does NOT include behavior of the type> that Ramsey has> >
            repeatedly been> > > > > involved with). Why is he still on> our school
            board?> > > > > > > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com,> "Lynn R.
            Bailey"> <lbailey143@ >> > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > I didn't
            see it, but> it's so true to character. I think it's> > worth> > > > >
            emailing Kim Wetzel to ask her if she> saw it. It must have> > happened>
            > > > > just a few feet from where she was> sitting.> > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From:
            reducingandreusing > > > > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com > > > >
            >> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008> 8:12 PM> > > > > > Subject:
            [wccusdtalk] Charles> Ramsey loses it again?> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
            > > > > At tonight's meeting at> DeJean, did anyone else see Charles> >
            Ramsey> > > > > walk > > > > > > across the room, shake his> finger in
            the face of the woman> > in brown > > > > > > from San Pablo and yell>
            "you betrayed me!"? All she did to> > elicit> > > > > that > > > > > >
            was to speak at the podium to> the county board of education> > > > >
            supporting > > > > > > placing ward elections on the> ballot. Was there
            some quid pro> > > quo she > > > > > > violated? She looked stunned,>
            with good reason: his demeaner> > was > > > > > > intimidating. > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
            [Non-text portions of this> message have been removed]> > > > > >> > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text
            portions of this message> have been removed]> > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been>
            removed]> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message
            have been removed]> > ____________ _________ _________ _________
            _________ _________ _With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel
            with you.http://www.windowsl ive.com/mobile/ overview. html?ocid=
            TXT_TAGLM_ WL_mobile_ 072008[Non-text portions of this message have been
            removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _________________________________________________________________
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kevin Rivard
            I agree with Ralph s points and would like to point out that becoming a Journeyman in either a Union apprenticeship program or a Merit Shop program is the
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 2, 2008
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              I agree with Ralph's points and would like to point out that becoming a Journeyman in either a Union apprenticeship program or a Merit Shop program is the equivalent of going to a four year college plus having to work full time.

              When my son went through the Union apprenticeship program. He worked a forty hour work week, sometimes with overtime and sometimes having to commute, to as far away as San Jose and then he had to return to Martinez for his night book work courses. While most of his training came on the job he still had to learn from the books all the electrical knowledge he would need in the field. How much wire is legal and safe to put through one inch conduit? How much conduit material does he need for a forty foot run with two 45% angles, a 30% angle with a half foot rise?

              Carpenter's, plumber's and other trades have the same grueling schedule. I am not trying to diminish the schooling teachers go through but I just wanted to give the trades people their due in illuminating to those that might not know that, learning a trade properly through either the Union or Merit Shop's is not merely, picking up a hammer and pounding nails or connecting wires together to flow electricity. I now Ralph did not intend at all to insinuate that idea.

              I just wanted to make the point, that whether you go to college or a trade program or school, both are to be respected and should be supported by the K-12 system and our communities.

              Kevin




              To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.comFrom: bedwellr@...: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 18:45:32 +0000Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and his award




              Kevin writes: "...if from the beginning the companies had filled the lowlevel jobs with our local young workers as apprentices and those workershad been at the sites from 2000 when Lavonnya De Jean Middle was startedthose young workers would have become Journeyman with 8 years ofconstruction experience and would have moved up the ladder making roomfor more young workers to fill their spots and to start their careers inthe trades, carpenters, plumbers, electricians. "This is a good point and one that I agree with. These are union jobs,correct? It's worth noting that those 8-year Journeymen union tradesmenthat Kevin describes above would now be making more per hour than WCCUSDteachers with the same experience, including benefits (and that doesn'teven take into account the fact that the carpenters could start rightout of high school, whereas the teachers had to put in six years ofcollege first). And people wonder why it is so hard to find and(especially to) retain good teachers...--- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Rivard <kfrivard@...> wrote:>> The construction companies have to put forth a good faith effort inhiring local laborers.>> If they do not succeed in the suggested quota, but the companies putforth a good faith effort, then they have fulfilled their obligation.>> Good faith efforts with no bite end up with the low figures of locallaborers.>> If the companies were fined $10,000 each day for every percentagepoint they were off in their quotas I bet we would see betterpercentages of local labor.>> For those who will say then the companies would just fill low leveljobs with our local workers I answer this way, if from the beginning thecompanies had filled the low level jobs with our local young workers asapprentices and those workers had been at the sites from 2000 whenLavonnya De Jean Middle was started those young workers would havebecome Journeyman with 8 years of construction experience and would havemoved up the ladder making room for more young workers to fill theirspots and to start their careers in the trades, carpenters, plumbers,electricians.>> Ask to see how many local men and woman have been hired as apprenticesby the companies building our schools and how many of the apprenticeshave come from outside West County.>> The records are in the trades offices, if Ramsey's friends will allowyou to see them. Go all the way back to the beginning of theconstruction era in this district and ask why how many of theapprentices were not from this area and how many times over the yearswere the goals for local hires achieved.>> If the goals have been achieved please prove me wrong.>> I have not taken the time to look into this and I would be more thanpleased to be proved a blooming idiot in spouting false rumors in thiscase because that would mean a lot of our local young men and womenbenefitted from the building program.>> But if, as I suspect, all that was achieved was a token percentage oflocal labor, to fulfill the good faith effort, than this whole communityhas been robbed by false promises by the school board. How many of ouryoung people graduating from our schools might have benefitted from thebillion dollar building program literally right in their own back yardhad Ramsey put as much effort, in making sure his friends trained ouryouth on the job sites in our district, as he put in, making sure localjurisdictions implemented PLA's, in their communities up and down theState.>> Just a thought to ponder.>>>>> To: wccusdtalk@...: tammeracampbell@...: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:18:48-0700Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and his award>>>>> Thank you Kevin for the information. I will look into the PLAs. Iwas under the impression that WCCUSD like the city of Richmond requiredthat a percentage of those employed on public projects needed to be fromthis area. Richmond has been doing this for years.Tammy--- On Thu,7/31/08, Kevin Rivard kfrivard@... wrote:From: Kevin Rivardkfrivard@...Subject: RE: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and hisawardTo: wccusdtalk@...: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 6:19 PMTammy, theSchool Board did not FIGHT for PLA's. They forced them upon thiscommunity. The PLA's were not even written by the district staff oranyone affiliated with this district. They were written by the TradeUnion officials who do not even live in this district. The Trade Unionswrote the PLA's so as to lock out Open Shop or Merit Shop businesseswhich make up a great deal of mom and pop construction businesses inWest County. If you look at the construction companies and employees whowork at the school sites you will find out the majority do not live inWest County. The majority of the money is not being spent in our localeconomy. The schools will remain in West County but the multi millionsof dollars being paid by the taxpayers of this area is helping theeconomies of the outlying suburbs.Ask to see the break down of companiesand employees of those companies working at the school sites and trulyfind out where the money for material and wages is being spent. I thinkyou will be shocked.The only way an employer and his employees can workunder the PLA system is if they pay into the Union coffers and if theemployers and employees do not join the Union and become vested thentheir DONATION to the unions, to have the privilege to work on theprojects, stays in the Unions piggybank and the mom and pop constructioncompany and their employees never see that money again. Request a copyof the PLA and read it. This is why most Open Shop and Merit Shopconstruction companies stay away from Union created PLA's. When I wasinvestigating PLA's I talked with Colorado's lead person in managingPLA's and he was shocked to learn that our PLA's were writtenexclusively by the Unions and then voted on by our Board without ANYinput by the local chapter of ABC, Associated Builders and Contractors,Inc. He told me that he brings together both Union and Open Shop andMerit Shop contractors to work out mutually agreeable contracts thatbenefit both partiesbut better to the point to benefit the taxpayerspaying the bill.In my opinion the reason Ramsey was recognized wasbecause he went up and down our State touting the benefits of the PLA's,influencing local elected bodies to institute PLA's. Ramsay and theBoard forced upon the taxpayers of this district and caused, through theresulting lack of competition, costs to rise. If, only Unions areallowed to bid or any contractor that bids can only use Union rules thenthe competition is limited to those companies within the Union communityor those that wish to play that game. Then the, I scratch your back andyou scratch mine philosophy, comes into play, and the bidding is set bythose few contractors that play this game and essentially monopolize thebidding.If you wish to see the other side of PLA's from the Open Shopand Merit Shop perspective go to ABC website, http://www.abc org andplay in their sandbox for awhile and read some studies of how PLA's havedriven up costs on public construction sites.To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.comFrom: tammeracampbell@ yahoo.comDate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:00:21-0700Subject: Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses it again?I wouldlike people to be honest and look at the other unions that people havereceived money and services from, say for example Local One and UTR. Howcan they be any different? Unions are unions whether they be trades,teachers, etc. Let's face it, it takes money to run a campaign and I forone would not want to go into debt for a thankless job that only pays$600/month and benefits of which I would not take. We need to get real,trade unions probably donated money because frankly they have benefitedfrom the building programs. We employee local trades people, who spendtheir salaries in our local economies, and send their children to ourlocal schools. Why is this picture wrong? Isn't this why the schoolboard fought for PLAs? Just food for thought.Tammy Campbell--- On Mon,7/28/08, Ralph Bedwell bedwellr@yahoo. com> wrote:> From: Ralph Bedwellbedwellr@yahoo. com>> Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses itagain?> To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 8:19PM> Ah, I see, thanks. Very interesting. Mr. Ramsey sure is> popularwith> the building trades unions. Why is that?> > > > --- Inwccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Lynn R.> Bailey" <lbailey143@ ...>>wrote:> >> > A few examples for Pfeifer:> > > > Powell & Partners --$5,000> > > > Don Todd Associates -- $5,000> > > > Independent PAC Local188 (Darrell Reese) -- $4,000 --> This> organization was investigated bythe F.B.I. and the> F.P.P.C.> > > > The Seville Group -- $3,000> > > >Arthur Tam Associates -- $2,000> > > > I.B.E.W Martinez -- $1,000> > > >Specific examples for Kronenberg and Ramsey are> readily available at>the web site mentioned below: > http://www.baysidep ta.org/pages/campaign2006. php> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message----- > > From: Ralph Bedwell > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com > >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:16 PM> > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: CharlesRamsey loses it>again?> > > > > > Really? Like who? > > > > --- Inwccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Lynn R.> Bailey" <lbailey143@ >> > wrote:>> >> > > Pfeifer's votes in 2004 cost around $1.05> to $1.10 per vote,87%> > paid by big money lobbyists. Kronenberg's and> Ramsey's votes in2006> > were 99% paid by big money interests.> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message ----- > > > From: Linda > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 1:01 PM> > > Subject:[wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses> it again?> > > > > > > > > Howmuch school board candidates spent in 2006> per vote:> > > > > >>http://www.baysidep ta.org/pages/ campaign2006. php> > > MadelineKronenberg $75,314 --- 20,632 votes => $3.65 per vote> > > MargueriteMeade $2,876 --- 10,163 votes => $0.28 per vote> > > Antonio Medrano$12,187 --- 16,943 votes => $0.72 per vote > > > Audrey Miles $2,921 ---20,045 votes = $0.15> per> > > vote> > > Charles Ramsey * $132,600 ---17,009votes => $7.80 per vote> > > > > > Incomplete data to figure outhow much each> vote cost them, I'd> > > guesstimate a bargain price ofunder 10¢ per> vote:> > > Robert W. Brower <$1,000 --- 9,606 votes =>< 10¢ ?> > > Martin Gottlieb <$1,000 --- 5,639 votes => < 10¢ ?> >> Anton Jungherr <$1,000 --- 8,747 votes => < 10¢ ?> > > > > > --- Inwccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Ralph> Bedwell" <bedwellr@>> wrote:> > >>> > > > To what character is Mr. Ramsey being> assigned, Mel?> > > > >> > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, Diamel@> wrote:> > > > >> > >> > Mr Bedwell, for me this "Charles> Ramsey loses it again" is true> >> > character assignation. If you feel that> Mr. Ramsey is a poor role>> > > model for our young people, which he is> not, you better keep> >them from> > > > visiting Congress at the state capitol in> Sacramentoor> > Washington DC> > > > where I am today.> > > > > In regards to themeeting at DeJean ,> have you thought to>contact> > > > and ask the ladyin brown from San Pablo> would she like to share> > with> > > > you whatwas really going on? We can't> continue to assume that all> > > > thiswent on because she spoke in favor of> the issue. > > > > > Being adiversity trainer, I am aware> that assumptions are based> > > > on?alack of information. ?I feel that Mr.> Ramsey is still on the> > board>> > > because WCCUSD voters continue to trust> his vision for our> > > >district.?Mr. Bedwell, have you taken> the?time to talk to Mr.> Ramsey>> > > in regards to your issues?> > > > > > > > > > Mel Collins> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: RalphBedwell <bedwellr@>> > > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com> > > > >Sent: Sat, 5 Jul 2008 2:57 pm> > > > > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re:Charles> Ramsey loses it again?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ramsey has been involved in SO many>incidents like this.Once> > or twice> > > > > might be a fluke, but itsure seems> to an outside observer> > that there> > > > > is a clear,long-term pattern of> behavior here. Obviously,> this is> > > > > VERYpoor modeling for the young> people that those of us in the> > > > >trenches are trying so hard to keep> on the right track (a> > trackthat> > > > > does NOT include behavior of the type> that Ramsey has> >repeatedly been> > > > > involved with). Why is he still on> our schoolboard?> > > > > > > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com,> "Lynn R.Bailey"> <lbailey143@ >> > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > I didn'tsee it, but> it's so true to character. I think it's> > worth> > > > >emailing Kim Wetzel to ask her if she> saw it. It must have> > happened>> > > > just a few feet from where she was> sitting.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From:reducingandreusing > > > > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008> 8:12 PM> > > > > > Subject:[wccusdtalk] Charles> Ramsey loses it again?> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > At tonight's meeting at> DeJean, did anyone else see Charles> >Ramsey> > > > > walk > > > > > > across the room, shake his> finger inthe face of the woman> > in brown > > > > > > from San Pablo and yell>"you betrayed me!"? All she did to> > elicit> > > > > that > > > > > >was to speak at the podium to> the county board of education> > > > >supporting > > > > > > placing ward elections on the> ballot. Was theresome quid pro> > > quo she > > > > > > violated? She looked stunned,>with good reason: his demeaner> > was > > > > > > intimidating. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this> message have been removed]> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-textportions of this message> have been removed]> > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been>removed]> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this messagehave been removed]> > ____________ _________ _________ __________________ _________ _With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travelwith you.http://www.windowsl ive.com/mobile/ overview. html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_ WL_mobile_ 072008[Non-text portions of this message have beenremoved][Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>>>>> __________________________________________________________> Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows LiveMessenger.>http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGL\M_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_072008>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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            • Ralph Bedwell
              I wasn t putting down anyone in the skilled trades, Kevin. I know those jobs can be demanding and take a lot of skill, experience, and knowledge. I think most
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 2, 2008
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                I wasn't putting down anyone in the skilled trades, Kevin. I know
                those jobs can be demanding and take a lot of skill, experience, and
                knowledge. I think most people know that and I don't know anyone who
                begrudges them what they make in salary and benefits. However, I do
                question the fact that choosing that route is likely to be far more
                lucrative financially than choosing a teaching career. I don't see any
                good reason why it should be.

                --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Rivard <kfrivard@...> wrote:
                >
                > I agree with Ralph's points and would like to point out that
                becoming a Journeyman in either a Union apprenticeship program or a
                Merit Shop program is the equivalent of going to a four year college
                plus having to work full time.
                >
                > When my son went through the Union apprenticeship program. He worked
                a forty hour work week, sometimes with overtime and sometimes having
                to commute, to as far away as San Jose and then he had to return to
                Martinez for his night book work courses. While most of his training
                came on the job he still had to learn from the books all the
                electrical knowledge he would need in the field. How much wire is
                legal and safe to put through one inch conduit? How much conduit
                material does he need for a forty foot run with two 45% angles, a 30%
                angle with a half foot rise?
                >
                > Carpenter's, plumber's and other trades have the same grueling
                schedule. I am not trying to diminish the schooling teachers go
                through but I just wanted to give the trades people their due in
                illuminating to those that might not know that, learning a trade
                properly through either the Union or Merit Shop's is not merely,
                picking up a hammer and pounding nails or connecting wires together to
                flow electricity. I now Ralph did not intend at all to insinuate that
                idea.
                >
                > I just wanted to make the point, that whether you go to college or a
                trade program or school, both are to be respected and should be
                supported by the K-12 system and our communities.
                >
                > Kevin
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > To: wccusdtalk@...: bedwellr@...: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 18:45:32
                +0000Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and his award
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Kevin writes: "...if from the beginning the companies had filled the
                lowlevel jobs with our local young workers as apprentices and those
                workershad been at the sites from 2000 when Lavonnya De Jean Middle
                was startedthose young workers would have become Journeyman with 8
                years ofconstruction experience and would have moved up the ladder
                making roomfor more young workers to fill their spots and to start
                their careers inthe trades, carpenters, plumbers, electricians. "This
                is a good point and one that I agree with. These are union
                jobs,correct? It's worth noting that those 8-year Journeymen union
                tradesmenthat Kevin describes above would now be making more per hour
                than WCCUSDteachers with the same experience, including benefits (and
                that doesn'teven take into account the fact that the carpenters could
                start rightout of high school, whereas the teachers had to put in six
                years ofcollege first). And people wonder why it is so hard to find
                and(especially to) retain good teachers...--- In
                wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Rivard <kfrivard@> wrote:>> The
                construction companies have to put forth a good faith effort inhiring
                local laborers.>> If they do not succeed in the suggested quota, but
                the companies putforth a good faith effort, then they have fulfilled
                their obligation.>> Good faith efforts with no bite end up with the
                low figures of locallaborers.>> If the companies were fined $10,000
                each day for every percentagepoint they were off in their quotas I bet
                we would see betterpercentages of local labor.>> For those who will
                say then the companies would just fill low leveljobs with our local
                workers I answer this way, if from the beginning thecompanies had
                filled the low level jobs with our local young workers asapprentices
                and those workers had been at the sites from 2000 whenLavonnya De Jean
                Middle was started those young workers would havebecome Journeyman
                with 8 years of construction experience and would havemoved up the
                ladder making room for more young workers to fill theirspots and to
                start their careers in the trades, carpenters,
                plumbers,electricians.>> Ask to see how many local men and woman have
                been hired as apprenticesby the companies building our schools and how
                many of the apprenticeshave come from outside West County.>> The
                records are in the trades offices, if Ramsey's friends will allowyou
                to see them. Go all the way back to the beginning of theconstruction
                era in this district and ask why how many of theapprentices were not
                from this area and how many times over the yearswere the goals for
                local hires achieved.>> If the goals have been achieved please prove
                me wrong.>> I have not taken the time to look into this and I would be
                more thanpleased to be proved a blooming idiot in spouting false
                rumors in thiscase because that would mean a lot of our local young
                men and womenbenefitted from the building program.>> But if, as I
                suspect, all that was achieved was a token percentage oflocal labor,
                to fulfill the good faith effort, than this whole communityhas been
                robbed by false promises by the school board. How many of ouryoung
                people graduating from our schools might have benefitted from
                thebillion dollar building program literally right in their own back
                yardhad Ramsey put as much effort, in making sure his friends trained
                ouryouth on the job sites in our district, as he put in, making sure
                localjurisdictions implemented PLA's, in their communities up and down
                theState.>> Just a thought to ponder.>>>>> To: wccusdtalk@:
                tammeracampbell@: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:18:48-0700Subject: RE:
                [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and his award>>>>> Thank you
                Kevin for the information. I will look into the PLAs. Iwas under the
                impression that WCCUSD like the city of Richmond requiredthat a
                percentage of those employed on public projects needed to be fromthis
                area. Richmond has been doing this for years.Tammy--- On Thu,7/31/08,
                Kevin Rivard kfrivard@ wrote:From: Kevin Rivardkfrivard@...: RE:
                [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and hisawardTo: wccusdtalk@:
                Thursday, July 31, 2008, 6:19 PMTammy, theSchool Board did not FIGHT
                for PLA's. They forced them upon thiscommunity. The PLA's were not
                even written by the district staff oranyone affiliated with this
                district. They were written by the TradeUnion officials who do not
                even live in this district. The Trade Unionswrote the PLA's so as to
                lock out Open Shop or Merit Shop businesseswhich make up a great deal
                of mom and pop construction businesses inWest County. If you look at
                the construction companies and employees whowork at the school sites
                you will find out the majority do not live inWest County. The majority
                of the money is not being spent in our localeconomy. The schools will
                remain in West County but the multi millionsof dollars being paid by
                the taxpayers of this area is helping theeconomies of the outlying
                suburbs.Ask to see the break down of companiesand employees of those
                companies working at the school sites and trulyfind out where the
                money for material and wages is being spent. I thinkyou will be
                shocked.The only way an employer and his employees can workunder the
                PLA system is if they pay into the Union coffers and if theemployers
                and employees do not join the Union and become vested thentheir
                DONATION to the unions, to have the privilege to work on theprojects,
                stays in the Unions piggybank and the mom and pop constructioncompany
                and their employees never see that money again. Request a copyof the
                PLA and read it. This is why most Open Shop and Merit Shopconstruction
                companies stay away from Union created PLA's. When I wasinvestigating
                PLA's I talked with Colorado's lead person in managingPLA's and he was
                shocked to learn that our PLA's were writtenexclusively by the Unions
                and then voted on by our Board without ANYinput by the local chapter
                of ABC, Associated Builders and Contractors,Inc. He told me that he
                brings together both Union and Open Shop andMerit Shop contractors to
                work out mutually agreeable contracts thatbenefit both partiesbut
                better to the point to benefit the taxpayerspaying the bill.In my
                opinion the reason Ramsey was recognized wasbecause he went up and
                down our State touting the benefits of the PLA's,influencing local
                elected bodies to institute PLA's. Ramsay and theBoard forced upon the
                taxpayers of this district and caused, through theresulting lack of
                competition, costs to rise. If, only Unions areallowed to bid or any
                contractor that bids can only use Union rules thenthe competition is
                limited to those companies within the Union communityor those that
                wish to play that game. Then the, I scratch your back andyou scratch
                mine philosophy, comes into play, and the bidding is set bythose few
                contractors that play this game and essentially monopolize
                thebidding.If you wish to see the other side of PLA's from the Open
                Shopand Merit Shop perspective go to ABC website, http://www.abc org
                andplay in their sandbox for awhile and read some studies of how PLA's
                havedriven up costs on public construction sites.To: wccusdtalk@...:
                tammeracampbell@ yahoo.comDate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:00:21-0700Subject:
                Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses it again?I wouldlike people
                to be honest and look at the other unions that people havereceived
                money and services from, say for example Local One and UTR. Howcan
                they be any different? Unions are unions whether they be
                trades,teachers, etc. Let's face it, it takes money to run a campaign
                and I forone would not want to go into debt for a thankless job that
                only pays$600/month and benefits of which I would not take. We need to
                get real,trade unions probably donated money because frankly they have
                benefitedfrom the building programs. We employee local trades people,
                who spendtheir salaries in our local economies, and send their
                children to ourlocal schools. Why is this picture wrong? Isn't this
                why the schoolboard fought for PLAs? Just food for thought.Tammy
                Campbell--- On Mon,7/28/08, Ralph Bedwell bedwellr@yahoo. com> wrote:>
                From: Ralph Bedwellbedwellr@yahoo. com>> Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re:
                Charles Ramsey loses itagain?> To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Date:
                Monday, July 28, 2008, 8:19PM> Ah, I see, thanks. Very interesting.
                Mr. Ramsey sure is> popularwith> the building trades unions. Why is
                that?> > > > --- Inwccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Lynn R.> Bailey"
                <lbailey143@ ...>>wrote:> >> > A few examples for Pfeifer:> > > >
                Powell & Partners --$5,000> > > > Don Todd Associates -- $5,000> > > >
                Independent PAC Local188 (Darrell Reese) -- $4,000 --> This>
                organization was investigated bythe F.B.I. and the> F.P.P.C.> > > >
                The Seville Group -- $3,000> > > >Arthur Tam Associates -- $2,000> > >
                > I.B.E.W Martinez -- $1,000> > > >Specific examples for Kronenberg
                and Ramsey are> readily available at>the web site mentioned below: >
                http://www.baysidep ta.org/pages/campaign2006. php> > > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > ----- Original Message----- > > From: Ralph Bedwell > >
                To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com > >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:16
                PM> > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: CharlesRamsey loses it>again?> > > > >
                > Really? Like who? > > > > --- Inwccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Lynn
                R.> Bailey" <lbailey143@ >> > wrote:>> >> > > Pfeifer's votes in 2004
                cost around $1.05> to $1.10 per vote,87%> > paid by big money
                lobbyists. Kronenberg's and> Ramsey's votes in2006> > were 99% paid by
                big money interests.> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message ----- > >
                > From: Linda > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Monday,
                July 28, 2008 1:01 PM> > > Subject:[wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey
                loses> it again?> > > > > > > > > Howmuch school board candidates
                spent in 2006> per vote:> > > > > >>http://www.baysidep ta.org/pages/
                campaign2006. php> > > MadelineKronenberg $75,314 --- 20,632 votes =>
                $3.65 per vote> > > MargueriteMeade $2,876 --- 10,163 votes => $0.28
                per vote> > > Antonio Medrano$12,187 --- 16,943 votes => $0.72 per
                vote > > > Audrey Miles $2,921 ---20,045 votes = $0.15> per> > > vote>
                > > Charles Ramsey * $132,600 ---17,009votes => $7.80 per vote> > > >
                > > Incomplete data to figure outhow much each> vote cost them, I'd> >
                > guesstimate a bargain price ofunder 10¢ per> vote:> > > Robert W.
                Brower <$1,000 --- 9,606 votes =>< 10¢ ?> > > Martin Gottlieb <$1,000
                --- 5,639 votes => < 10¢ ?> >> Anton Jungherr <$1,000 --- 8,747 votes
                => < 10¢ ?> > > > > > --- Inwccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Ralph>
                Bedwell" <bedwellr@>> wrote:> > >>> > > > To what character is Mr.
                Ramsey being> assigned, Mel?> > > > >> > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro
                ups.com, Diamel@> wrote:> > > > >> > >> > Mr Bedwell, for me this
                "Charles> Ramsey loses it again" is true> >> > character assignation.
                If you feel that> Mr. Ramsey is a poor role>> > > model for our young
                people, which he is> not, you better keep> >them from> > > > visiting
                Congress at the state capitol in> Sacramentoor> > Washington DC> > > >
                where I am today.> > > > > In regards to themeeting at DeJean ,> have
                you thought to>contact> > > > and ask the ladyin brown from San Pablo>
                would she like to share> > with> > > > you whatwas really going on? We
                can't> continue to assume that all> > > > thiswent on because she
                spoke in favor of> the issue. > > > > > Being adiversity trainer, I am
                aware> that assumptions are based> > > > on?alack of information. ?I
                feel that Mr.> Ramsey is still on the> > board>> > > because WCCUSD
                voters continue to trust> his vision for our> > > >district.?Mr.
                Bedwell, have you taken> the?time to talk to Mr.> Ramsey>> > > in
                regards to your issues?> > > > > > > > > > Mel Collins> > > > >> > > >
                > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: RalphBedwell
                <bedwellr@>> > > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com> > > > >Sent:
                Sat, 5 Jul 2008 2:57 pm> > > > > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re:Charles>
                Ramsey loses it again?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >
                > > > > > > > > > > Ramsey has been involved in SO many>incidents like
                this.Once> > or twice> > > > > might be a fluke, but itsure seems> to
                an outside observer> > that there> > > > > is a clear,long-term
                pattern of> behavior here. Obviously,> this is> > > > > VERYpoor
                modeling for the young> people that those of us in the> > > >
                >trenches are trying so hard to keep> on the right track (a> >
                trackthat> > > > > does NOT include behavior of the type> that Ramsey
                has> >repeatedly been> > > > > involved with). Why is he still on> our
                schoolboard?> > > > > > > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com,>
                "Lynn R.Bailey"> <lbailey143@ >> > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >
                I didn'tsee it, but> it's so true to character. I think it's> > worth>
                > > > >emailing Kim Wetzel to ask her if she> saw it. It must have> >
                happened>> > > > just a few feet from where she was> sitting.> > > > >
                > > > > >> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >
                From:reducingandreusing > > > > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com >
                > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008> 8:12 PM> > > > > >
                Subject:[wccusdtalk] Charles> Ramsey loses it again?> > > > > > > > >
                > > > > >> > > > At tonight's meeting at> DeJean, did anyone else see
                Charles> >Ramsey> > > > > walk > > > > > > across the room, shake his>
                finger inthe face of the woman> > in brown > > > > > > from San Pablo
                and yell>"you betrayed me!"? All she did to> > elicit> > > > > that >
                > > > > >was to speak at the podium to> the county board of education>
                > > > >supporting > > > > > > placing ward elections on the> ballot.
                Was theresome quid pro> > > quo she > > > > > > violated? She looked
                stunned,>with good reason: his demeaner> > was > > > > > >
                intimidating. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this> message have been removed]> >
                > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                > > > [Non-textportions of this message> have been removed]> > > > >>>
                > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this
                message have been>removed]> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text
                portions of this messagehave been removed]> > ____________ _________
                _________ __________________ _________ _With Windows Live for mobile,
                your contacts travelwith you.http://www.windowsl ive.com/mobile/
                overview. html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_ WL_mobile_ 072008[Non-text portions of
                this message have beenremoved][Non-text portions of this message have
                been removed]>>>>>>
                __________________________________________________________> Use video
                conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows
                LiveMessenger.>http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGL\M_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_072008>>
                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>[Non-text
                portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > Get more from your digital life. Find out how.
                > http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home2_082008
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                >
              • Kevin Rivard
                Ralph I did not take any offense from your post. This is one thing I find hard about electronic posting. Without an immediate give and take offense can easily
                Message 7 of 8 , Aug 2, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Ralph I did not take any offense from your post. This is one thing I find hard about electronic posting. Without an immediate give and take offense can easily be taken when none was intended.

                  I understood your message and if a teacher is good at what he or she does I believe there should be equitable financial compensation.





                  To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.comFrom: bedwellr@...: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 21:10:01 +0000Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and his award




                  I wasn't putting down anyone in the skilled trades, Kevin. I knowthose jobs can be demanding and take a lot of skill, experience, andknowledge. I think most people know that and I don't know anyone whobegrudges them what they make in salary and benefits. However, I doquestion the fact that choosing that route is likely to be far morelucrative financially than choosing a teaching career. I don't see anygood reason why it should be. --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Rivard <kfrivard@...> wrote:> > I agree with Ralph's points and would like to point out thatbecoming a Journeyman in either a Union apprenticeship program or aMerit Shop program is the equivalent of going to a four year collegeplus having to work full time. > > When my son went through the Union apprenticeship program. He workeda forty hour work week, sometimes with overtime and sometimes havingto commute, to as far away as San Jose and then he had to return toMartinez for his night book work courses. While most of his trainingcame on the job he still had to learn from the books all theelectrical knowledge he would need in the field. How much wire islegal and safe to put through one inch conduit? How much conduitmaterial does he need for a forty foot run with two 45% angles, a 30%angle with a half foot rise?> > Carpenter's, plumber's and other trades have the same gruelingschedule. I am not trying to diminish the schooling teachers gothrough but I just wanted to give the trades people their due inilluminating to those that might not know that, learning a tradeproperly through either the Union or Merit Shop's is not merely,picking up a hammer and pounding nails or connecting wires together toflow electricity. I now Ralph did not intend at all to insinuate thatidea. > > I just wanted to make the point, that whether you go to college or atrade program or school, both are to be respected and should besupported by the K-12 system and our communities.> > Kevin> > > > > To: wccusdtalk@...: bedwellr@...: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 18:45:32+0000Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and his award> > > > > Kevin writes: "...if from the beginning the companies had filled thelowlevel jobs with our local young workers as apprentices and thoseworkershad been at the sites from 2000 when Lavonnya De Jean Middlewas startedthose young workers would have become Journeyman with 8years ofconstruction experience and would have moved up the laddermaking roomfor more young workers to fill their spots and to starttheir careers inthe trades, carpenters, plumbers, electricians. "Thisis a good point and one that I agree with. These are unionjobs,correct? It's worth noting that those 8-year Journeymen uniontradesmenthat Kevin describes above would now be making more per hourthan WCCUSDteachers with the same experience, including benefits (andthat doesn'teven take into account the fact that the carpenters couldstart rightout of high school, whereas the teachers had to put in sixyears ofcollege first). And people wonder why it is so hard to findand(especially to) retain good teachers...--- Inwccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Rivard <kfrivard@> wrote:>> Theconstruction companies have to put forth a good faith effort inhiringlocal laborers.>> If they do not succeed in the suggested quota, butthe companies putforth a good faith effort, then they have fulfilledtheir obligation.>> Good faith efforts with no bite end up with thelow figures of locallaborers.>> If the companies were fined $10,000each day for every percentagepoint they were off in their quotas I betwe would see betterpercentages of local labor.>> For those who willsay then the companies would just fill low leveljobs with our localworkers I answer this way, if from the beginning thecompanies hadfilled the low level jobs with our local young workers asapprenticesand those workers had been at the sites from 2000 whenLavonnya De JeanMiddle was started those young workers would havebecome Journeymanwith 8 years of construction experience and would havemoved up theladder making room for more young workers to fill theirspots and tostart their careers in the trades, carpenters,plumbers,electricians.>> Ask to see how many local men and woman havebeen hired as apprenticesby the companies building our schools and howmany of the apprenticeshave come from outside West County.>> Therecords are in the trades offices, if Ramsey's friends will allowyouto see them. Go all the way back to the beginning of theconstructionera in this district and ask why how many of theapprentices were notfrom this area and how many times over the yearswere the goals forlocal hires achieved.>> If the goals have been achieved please proveme wrong.>> I have not taken the time to look into this and I would bemore thanpleased to be proved a blooming idiot in spouting falserumors in thiscase because that would mean a lot of our local youngmen and womenbenefitted from the building program.>> But if, as Isuspect, all that was achieved was a token percentage oflocal labor,to fulfill the good faith effort, than this whole communityhas beenrobbed by false promises by the school board. How many of ouryoungpeople graduating from our schools might have benefitted fromthebillion dollar building program literally right in their own backyardhad Ramsey put as much effort, in making sure his friends trainedouryouth on the job sites in our district, as he put in, making surelocaljurisdictions implemented PLA's, in their communities up and downtheState.>> Just a thought to ponder.>>>>> To: wccusdtalk@:tammeracampbell@: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 19:18:48-0700Subject: RE:[wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and his award>>>>> Thank youKevin for the information. I will look into the PLAs. Iwas under theimpression that WCCUSD like the city of Richmond requiredthat apercentage of those employed on public projects needed to be fromthisarea. Richmond has been doing this for years.Tammy--- On Thu,7/31/08,Kevin Rivard kfrivard@ wrote:From: Kevin Rivardkfrivard@...: RE:[wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey, PLA's and hisawardTo: wccusdtalk@:Thursday, July 31, 2008, 6:19 PMTammy, theSchool Board did not FIGHTfor PLA's. They forced them upon thiscommunity. The PLA's were noteven written by the district staff oranyone affiliated with thisdistrict. They were written by the TradeUnion officials who do noteven live in this district. The Trade Unionswrote the PLA's so as tolock out Open Shop or Merit Shop businesseswhich make up a great dealof mom and pop construction businesses inWest County. If you look atthe construction companies and employees whowork at the school sitesyou will find out the majority do not live inWest County. The majorityof the money is not being spent in our localeconomy. The schools willremain in West County but the multi millionsof dollars being paid bythe taxpayers of this area is helping theeconomies of the outlyingsuburbs.Ask to see the break down of companiesand employees of thosecompanies working at the school sites and trulyfind out where themoney for material and wages is being spent. I thinkyou will beshocked.The only way an employer and his employees can workunder thePLA system is if they pay into the Union coffers and if theemployersand employees do not join the Union and become vested thentheirDONATION to the unions, to have the privilege to work on theprojects,stays in the Unions piggybank and the mom and pop constructioncompanyand their employees never see that money again. Request a copyof thePLA and read it. This is why most Open Shop and Merit Shopconstructioncompanies stay away from Union created PLA's. When I wasinvestigatingPLA's I talked with Colorado's lead person in managingPLA's and he wasshocked to learn that our PLA's were writtenexclusively by the Unionsand then voted on by our Board without ANYinput by the local chapterof ABC, Associated Builders and Contractors,Inc. He told me that hebrings together both Union and Open Shop andMerit Shop contractors towork out mutually agreeable contracts thatbenefit both partiesbutbetter to the point to benefit the taxpayerspaying the bill.In myopinion the reason Ramsey was recognized wasbecause he went up anddown our State touting the benefits of the PLA's,influencing localelected bodies to institute PLA's. Ramsay and theBoard forced upon thetaxpayers of this district and caused, through theresulting lack ofcompetition, costs to rise. If, only Unions areallowed to bid or anycontractor that bids can only use Union rules thenthe competition islimited to those companies within the Union communityor those thatwish to play that game. Then the, I scratch your back andyou scratchmine philosophy, comes into play, and the bidding is set bythose fewcontractors that play this game and essentially monopolizethebidding.If you wish to see the other side of PLA's from the OpenShopand Merit Shop perspective go to ABC website, http://www.abc organdplay in their sandbox for awhile and read some studies of how PLA'shavedriven up costs on public construction sites.To: wccusdtalk@...:tammeracampbell@ yahoo.comDate: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:00:21-0700Subject:Re: [wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramsey loses it again?I wouldlike peopleto be honest and look at the other unions that people havereceivedmoney and services from, say for example Local One and UTR. Howcanthey be any different? Unions are unions whether they betrades,teachers, etc. Let's face it, it takes money to run a campaignand I forone would not want to go into debt for a thankless job thatonly pays$600/month and benefits of which I would not take. We need toget real,trade unions probably donated money because frankly they havebenefitedfrom the building programs. We employee local trades people,who spendtheir salaries in our local economies, and send theirchildren to ourlocal schools. Why is this picture wrong? Isn't thiswhy the schoolboard fought for PLAs? Just food for thought.TammyCampbell--- On Mon,7/28/08, Ralph Bedwell bedwellr@yahoo. com> wrote:>From: Ralph Bedwellbedwellr@yahoo. com>> Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re:Charles Ramsey loses itagain?> To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com Date:Monday, July 28, 2008, 8:19PM> Ah, I see, thanks. Very interesting.Mr. Ramsey sure is> popularwith> the building trades unions. Why isthat?> > > > --- Inwccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Lynn R.> Bailey"<lbailey143@ ...>>wrote:> >> > A few examples for Pfeifer:> > > >Powell & Partners --$5,000> > > > Don Todd Associates -- $5,000> > > >Independent PAC Local188 (Darrell Reese) -- $4,000 --> This>organization was investigated bythe F.B.I. and the> F.P.P.C.> > > >The Seville Group -- $3,000> > > >Arthur Tam Associates -- $2,000> > >> I.B.E.W Martinez -- $1,000> > > >Specific examples for Kronenbergand Ramsey are> readily available at>the web site mentioned below: >http://www.baysidep ta.org/pages/campaign2006. php> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > ----- Original Message----- > > From: Ralph Bedwell > >To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com > >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:16PM> > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re: CharlesRamsey loses it>again?> > > > >> Really? Like who? > > > > --- Inwccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "LynnR.> Bailey" <lbailey143@ >> > wrote:>> >> > > Pfeifer's votes in 2004cost around $1.05> to $1.10 per vote,87%> > paid by big moneylobbyists. Kronenberg's and> Ramsey's votes in2006> > were 99% paid bybig money interests.> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message ----- > >> From: Linda > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Monday,July 28, 2008 1:01 PM> > > Subject:[wccusdtalk] Re: Charles Ramseyloses> it again?> > > > > > > > > Howmuch school board candidatesspent in 2006> per vote:> > > > > >>http://www.baysidep ta.org/pages/campaign2006. php> > > MadelineKronenberg $75,314 --- 20,632 votes =>$3.65 per vote> > > MargueriteMeade $2,876 --- 10,163 votes => $0.28per vote> > > Antonio Medrano$12,187 --- 16,943 votes => $0.72 pervote > > > Audrey Miles $2,921 ---20,045 votes = $0.15> per> > > vote>> > Charles Ramsey * $132,600 ---17,009votes => $7.80 per vote> > > >> > Incomplete data to figure outhow much each> vote cost them, I'd> >> guesstimate a bargain price ofunder 10¢ per> vote:> > > Robert W.Brower <$1,000 --- 9,606 votes =>< 10¢ ?> > > Martin Gottlieb <$1,000--- 5,639 votes => < 10¢ ?> >> Anton Jungherr <$1,000 --- 8,747 votes=> < 10¢ ?> > > > > > --- Inwccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com, "Ralph>Bedwell" <bedwellr@>> wrote:> > >>> > > > To what character is Mr.Ramsey being> assigned, Mel?> > > > >> > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogroups.com, Diamel@> wrote:> > > > >> > >> > Mr Bedwell, for me this"Charles> Ramsey loses it again" is true> >> > character assignation.If you feel that> Mr. Ramsey is a poor role>> > > model for our youngpeople, which he is> not, you better keep> >them from> > > > visitingCongress at the state capitol in> Sacramentoor> > Washington DC> > > >where I am today.> > > > > In regards to themeeting at DeJean ,> haveyou thought to>contact> > > > and ask the ladyin brown from San Pablo>would she like to share> > with> > > > you whatwas really going on? Wecan't> continue to assume that all> > > > thiswent on because shespoke in favor of> the issue. > > > > > Being adiversity trainer, I amaware> that assumptions are based> > > > on?alack of information. ?Ifeel that Mr.> Ramsey is still on the> > board>> > > because WCCUSDvoters continue to trust> his vision for our> > > >district.?Mr.Bedwell, have you taken> the?time to talk to Mr.> Ramsey>> > > inregards to your issues?> > > > > > > > > > Mel Collins> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: RalphBedwell<bedwellr@>> > > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com> > > > >Sent:Sat, 5 Jul 2008 2:57 pm> > > > > Subject: [wccusdtalk] Re:Charles>Ramsey loses it again?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > Ramsey has been involved in SO many>incidents likethis.Once> > or twice> > > > > might be a fluke, but itsure seems> toan outside observer> > that there> > > > > is a clear,long-termpattern of> behavior here. Obviously,> this is> > > > > VERYpoormodeling for the young> people that those of us in the> > > >>trenches are trying so hard to keep> on the right track (a> >trackthat> > > > > does NOT include behavior of the type> that Ramseyhas> >repeatedly been> > > > > involved with). Why is he still on> ourschoolboard?> > > > > > > > > > --- In wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com,>"Lynn R.Bailey"> <lbailey143@ >> > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >I didn'tsee it, but> it's so true to character. I think it's> > worth>> > > >emailing Kim Wetzel to ask her if she> saw it. It must have> >happened>> > > > just a few feet from where she was> sitting.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >From:reducingandreusing > > > > > > To: wccusdtalk@yahoogro ups.com >> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008> 8:12 PM> > > > > >Subject:[wccusdtalk] Charles> Ramsey loses it again?> > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > At tonight's meeting at> DeJean, did anyone else seeCharles> >Ramsey> > > > > walk > > > > > > across the room, shake his>finger inthe face of the woman> > in brown > > > > > > from San Pabloand yell>"you betrayed me!"? All she did to> > elicit> > > > > that >> > > > >was to speak at the podium to> the county board of education>> > > >supporting > > > > > > placing ward elections on the> ballot.Was theresome quid pro> > > quo she > > > > > > violated? She lookedstunned,>with good reason: his demeaner> > was > > > > > >intimidating. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this> message have been removed]> >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > [Non-textportions of this message> have been removed]> > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of thismessage have been>removed]> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-textportions of this messagehave been removed]> > ____________ __________________ __________________ _________ _With Windows Live for mobile,your contacts travelwith you.http://www.windowsl ive.com/mobile/overview. html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_ WL_mobile_ 072008[Non-text portions ofthis message have beenremoved][Non-text portions of this message havebeen removed]>>>>>>__________________________________________________________> Use videoconversation to talk face-to-face with WindowsLiveMessenger.>http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGL\M_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_072008>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>[Non-textportions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > __________________________________________________________> Get more from your digital life. Find out how.> http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home2_082008> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>





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