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S.ailing the Great Lakes

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  • jdmyers@watkinsowners.com
    TO: ALL Cindi and I have been sailing Lake Huron for the past nearly two weeks. So far we have made little progress with wind and storms keeping us in various
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 2, 2009
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      TO: ALL
      Cindi and I have been sailing Lake Huron for the past nearly two weeks.
      So far we have made little progress with wind and storms keeping us in
      various ports for 2 to 3 days at a time. Currently I am writing this
      from Port Austin, Michigan sitting in the cockpit of our Watkins 25, Y
      KNOT. The wind is blowing 12-15 knots out of the West and the boat is
      rocking and rolling in her slip. We have been stuck here 2 days. The
      town is nice but we have seen it all and done it all.
      The wind is predicted to lay a little this afternoon then build to 20+
      knots tomorrow. We plan to motor almost dead into the wind with 2-4 ft
      waves this afternoon for an 18 mile slog back to Caseville, Mi. I
      brought my air conditioner and two fans my mistake. I should have
      brought my heater. We are burning candles at night for heat. Foulies
      by day. We usually walk the beaches and swim at each port. This SUMMER
      we need sweats or foulies to walk the beach. So much for global
      warming!

      God's Speed
      John Myers
      S/V Y KNOT
    • Paul Lapointe
      I ll say a prayer for you guys. Sounds allot like the weather we had in April when we moved Finally. Stay safe and send us more updates. Paul L. ... From:
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 2, 2009
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        I'll say a prayer for you guys. Sounds allot like the weather we had in April when we moved Finally.
        Stay safe and send us more updates.
        Paul L.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: jdmyers@...
        To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: 2009-08-02 09:52
        Subject: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes


        TO: ALL
        Cindi and I have been sailing Lake Huron for the past nearly two weeks.
        So far we have made little progress with wind and storms keeping us in
        various ports for 2 to 3 days at a time. Currently I am writing this
        from Port Austin, Michigan sitting in the cockpit of our Watkins 25, Y
        KNOT. The wind is blowing 12-15 knots out of the West and the boat is
        rocking and rolling in her slip. We have been stuck here 2 days. The
        town is nice but we have seen it all and done it all.
        The wind is predicted to lay a little this afternoon then build to 20+
        knots tomorrow. We plan to motor almost dead into the wind with 2-4 ft
        waves this afternoon for an 18 mile slog back to Caseville, Mi. I
        brought my air conditioner and two fans my mistake. I should have
        brought my heater. We are burning candles at night for heat. Foulies
        by day. We usually walk the beaches and swim at each port. This SUMMER
        we need sweats or foulies to walk the beach. So much for global
        warming!

        God's Speed
        John Myers
        S/V Y KNOT





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jim
        John and Cindi, I wish you better weather. Always remember a bad day on your boat is better than a good day at work. Jim ... From: Paul Lapointe To:
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 3, 2009
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          John and Cindi, I wish you better weather. Always remember a bad day on your boat is better than a good day at work.
          Jim
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Paul Lapointe
          To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:02 AM
          Subject: Re: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes


          I'll say a prayer for you guys. Sounds allot like the weather we had in April when we moved Finally.
          Stay safe and send us more updates.
          Paul L.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: jdmyers@...
          To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: 2009-08-02 09:52
          Subject: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes

          TO: ALL
          Cindi and I have been sailing Lake Huron for the past nearly two weeks.
          So far we have made little progress with wind and storms keeping us in
          various ports for 2 to 3 days at a time. Currently I am writing this
          from Port Austin, Michigan sitting in the cockpit of our Watkins 25, Y
          KNOT. The wind is blowing 12-15 knots out of the West and the boat is
          rocking and rolling in her slip. We have been stuck here 2 days. The
          town is nice but we have seen it all and done it all.
          The wind is predicted to lay a little this afternoon then build to 20+
          knots tomorrow. We plan to motor almost dead into the wind with 2-4 ft
          waves this afternoon for an 18 mile slog back to Caseville, Mi. I
          brought my air conditioner and two fans my mistake. I should have
          brought my heater. We are burning candles at night for heat. Foulies
          by day. We usually walk the beaches and swim at each port. This SUMMER
          we need sweats or foulies to walk the beach. So much for global
          warming!

          God's Speed
          John Myers
          S/V Y KNOT

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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        • carriej52
          John I know what you re dealing with. My wife, Carrie, and I are not retired yet so we can only get away on weekends. We sail out of Sturgeon Bay, WI and
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 3, 2009
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            John

            I know what you're dealing with. My wife, Carrie, and I are not retired yet so we can only get away on weekends. We sail out of Sturgeon Bay, WI and like to head north to Nicolet Bay or Washington Island. We put 250 miles on the boat in June and almost nothing since. On the 4th of July at Washington Island we had a high of 58 degrees with a water temp of 57. Since then it's been warmer but the fronts are all going throught the area on the weekends. The winds this year are really wild. This weekend we were determined to go and the original forcast was good - 5 hour spinacker ride north on Friday night and the same back on Sunday. As we left on Friday the forcast changed to 25 knots and seas 4-7 feet for both Saturday and Sunday and of course on the nose. We anchored in a beautiful cove on Friday night but called off Saturday and Sunday due to the winds and storms. Hopefully August will make up for July. Anyway, hopefully you can enjoy the rest of your trip!

            Al and Carrie Jauquet
            36W84CC Voyaguer

            --- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <w27sail@...> wrote:
            >
            > John and Cindi, I wish you better weather. Always remember a bad day on your boat is better than a good day at work.
            > Jim
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Paul Lapointe
            > To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:02 AM
            > Subject: Re: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
            >
            >
            > I'll say a prayer for you guys. Sounds allot like the weather we had in April when we moved Finally.
            > Stay safe and send us more updates.
            > Paul L.
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: jdmyers@...
            > To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: 2009-08-02 09:52
            > Subject: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
            >
            > TO: ALL
            > Cindi and I have been sailing Lake Huron for the past nearly two weeks.
            > So far we have made little progress with wind and storms keeping us in
            > various ports for 2 to 3 days at a time. Currently I am writing this
            > from Port Austin, Michigan sitting in the cockpit of our Watkins 25, Y
            > KNOT. The wind is blowing 12-15 knots out of the West and the boat is
            > rocking and rolling in her slip. We have been stuck here 2 days. The
            > town is nice but we have seen it all and done it all.
            > The wind is predicted to lay a little this afternoon then build to 20+
            > knots tomorrow. We plan to motor almost dead into the wind with 2-4 ft
            > waves this afternoon for an 18 mile slog back to Caseville, Mi. I
            > brought my air conditioner and two fans my mistake. I should have
            > brought my heater. We are burning candles at night for heat. Foulies
            > by day. We usually walk the beaches and swim at each port. This SUMMER
            > we need sweats or foulies to walk the beach. So much for global
            > warming!
            >
            > God's Speed
            > John Myers
            > S/V Y KNOT
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            >
            >
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.41/2277 - Release Date: 08/02/09 05:56:00
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • jdmyers@watkinsowners.com
            ALL, An update from yesterdays post: We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS
            Message 5 of 23 , Aug 3, 2009
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              ALL,
              An update from yesterdays post:
              We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
              night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
              sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we tacked
              back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
              would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
              a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
              I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
              yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
              These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
              carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
              diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!

              I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
              the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
              winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
              quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
              still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.

              If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
              Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
              light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
              10 years.

              Fair Winds!!!!!
              John Myers

              > -------- Original Message --------
              > Subject: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
              > From: jdmyers@...
              > Date: Sun, August 02, 2009 6:52 am
              > To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
              > TO: ALL
              > Cindi and I have been sailing Lake Huron for the past nearly two weeks.
              > So far we have made little progress with wind and storms keeping us in
              > various ports for 2 to 3 days at a time. Currently I am writing this
              > from Port Austin, Michigan sitting in the cockpit of our Watkins 25, Y
              > KNOT. The wind is blowing 12-15 knots out of the West and the boat is
              > rocking and rolling in her slip. We have been stuck here 2 days. The
              > town is nice but we have seen it all and done it all.
              > The wind is predicted to lay a little this afternoon then build to 20+
              > knots tomorrow. We plan to motor almost dead into the wind with 2-4 ft
              > waves this afternoon for an 18 mile slog back to Caseville, Mi. I
              > brought my air conditioner and two fans my mistake. I should have
              > brought my heater. We are burning candles at night for heat. Foulies
              > by day. We usually walk the beaches and swim at each port. This SUMMER
              > we need sweats or foulies to walk the beach. So much for global
              > warming!
              > God's Speed
              > John Myers
              > S/V Y KNOT
            • Jim
              John, if this helps its in the 90s and humid here (not much fun to sail in). Too cold, too hot, too windy, too still, it looks like one of us could get a
              Message 6 of 23 , Aug 3, 2009
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                John, if this helps its in the 90s and humid here (not much fun to sail in). Too cold, too hot, too windy, too still, it looks like one of us could get a break. Here's to good sailing weather. Good luck.
                Jim
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: jdmyers@...
                To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:45 AM
                Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes


                ALL,
                An update from yesterdays post:
                We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we tacked
                back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!

                I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.

                If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                10 years.

                Fair Winds!!!!!
                John Myers

                > -------- Original Message --------
                > Subject: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                > From: jdmyers@...
                > Date: Sun, August 02, 2009 6:52 am
                > To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                > TO: ALL
                > Cindi and I have been sailing Lake Huron for the past nearly two weeks.
                > So far we have made little progress with wind and storms keeping us in
                > various ports for 2 to 3 days at a time. Currently I am writing this
                > from Port Austin, Michigan sitting in the cockpit of our Watkins 25, Y
                > KNOT. The wind is blowing 12-15 knots out of the West and the boat is
                > rocking and rolling in her slip. We have been stuck here 2 days. The
                > town is nice but we have seen it all and done it all.
                > The wind is predicted to lay a little this afternoon then build to 20+
                > knots tomorrow. We plan to motor almost dead into the wind with 2-4 ft
                > waves this afternoon for an 18 mile slog back to Caseville, Mi. I
                > brought my air conditioner and two fans my mistake. I should have
                > brought my heater. We are burning candles at night for heat. Foulies
                > by day. We usually walk the beaches and swim at each port. This SUMMER
                > we need sweats or foulies to walk the beach. So much for global
                > warming!
                > God's Speed
                > John Myers
                > S/V Y KNOT






                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                No virus found in this incoming message.
                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Paul Lapointe
                Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and about another 10 degrees of warmth. Paul L. ... From: jdmyers@watkinsowners.com To:
                Message 7 of 23 , Aug 3, 2009
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                  Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                  Paul L.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: jdmyers@...
                  To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                  Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes


                  ALL,
                  An update from yesterdays post:
                  We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                  night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                  sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we tacked
                  back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                  would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                  a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                  I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                  yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                  These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                  carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                  diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!

                  I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                  the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                  winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                  quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                  still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.

                  If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                  Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                  light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                  10 years.

                  Fair Winds!!!!!
                  John Myers

                  > -------- Original Message --------
                  > Subject: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                  > From: jdmyers@...
                  > Date: Sun, August 02, 2009 6:52 am
                  > To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                  > TO: ALL
                  > Cindi and I have been sailing Lake Huron for the past nearly two weeks.
                  > So far we have made little progress with wind and storms keeping us in
                  > various ports for 2 to 3 days at a time. Currently I am writing this
                  > from Port Austin, Michigan sitting in the cockpit of our Watkins 25, Y
                  > KNOT. The wind is blowing 12-15 knots out of the West and the boat is
                  > rocking and rolling in her slip. We have been stuck here 2 days. The
                  > town is nice but we have seen it all and done it all.
                  > The wind is predicted to lay a little this afternoon then build to 20+
                  > knots tomorrow. We plan to motor almost dead into the wind with 2-4 ft
                  > waves this afternoon for an 18 mile slog back to Caseville, Mi. I
                  > brought my air conditioner and two fans my mistake. I should have
                  > brought my heater. We are burning candles at night for heat. Foulies
                  > by day. We usually walk the beaches and swim at each port. This SUMMER
                  > we need sweats or foulies to walk the beach. So much for global
                  > warming!
                  > God's Speed
                  > John Myers
                  > S/V Y KNOT





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Alan Wilson
                  I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the day. However
                  Message 8 of 23 , Aug 3, 2009
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                    I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the day. However down here in the Twin Cities we are in a drought with brown grass in what is usually very green MN. IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately. As many "experts" said we will be in for wilder and stranger weather in the years to come.
                    Alan W.

                    --- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Lapointe" <Lapoints@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                    > Paul L.
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: jdmyers@...
                    > To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                    > Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                    >
                    >
                    > ALL,
                    > An update from yesterdays post:
                    > We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                    > night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                    > sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we tacked
                    > back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                    > would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                    > a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                    > I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                    > yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                    > These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                    > carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                    > diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!
                    >
                    > I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                    > the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                    > winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                    > quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                    > still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.
                    >
                    > If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                    > Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                    > light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                    > 10 years.
                    >
                    > Fair Winds!!!!!
                    > John Myers
                    >
                    > > -------- Original Message --------
                    > > Subject: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                    > > From: jdmyers@...
                    > > Date: Sun, August 02, 2009 6:52 am
                    > > To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                    > > TO: ALL
                    > > Cindi and I have been sailing Lake Huron for the past nearly two weeks.
                    > > So far we have made little progress with wind and storms keeping us in
                    > > various ports for 2 to 3 days at a time. Currently I am writing this
                    > > from Port Austin, Michigan sitting in the cockpit of our Watkins 25, Y
                    > > KNOT. The wind is blowing 12-15 knots out of the West and the boat is
                    > > rocking and rolling in her slip. We have been stuck here 2 days. The
                    > > town is nice but we have seen it all and done it all.
                    > > The wind is predicted to lay a little this afternoon then build to 20+
                    > > knots tomorrow. We plan to motor almost dead into the wind with 2-4 ft
                    > > waves this afternoon for an 18 mile slog back to Caseville, Mi. I
                    > > brought my air conditioner and two fans my mistake. I should have
                    > > brought my heater. We are burning candles at night for heat. Foulies
                    > > by day. We usually walk the beaches and swim at each port. This SUMMER
                    > > we need sweats or foulies to walk the beach. So much for global
                    > > warming!
                    > > God's Speed
                    > > John Myers
                    > > S/V Y KNOT
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • capbrian
                    That is not evidence that we humans have affected the climate...merely that it has been different lately...   let s not confuse the two things. ... From:
                    Message 9 of 23 , Aug 3, 2009
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                      That is not evidence that "we humans" have affected the climate...merely that it has been different lately...
                       
                      let's not confuse the two things.

                      --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@...> wrote:


                      From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@...>
                      Subject: [watkins] Re: S.ailing the Great Lakes
                      To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:52 PM


                       



                      ****I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the day. However down here in the Twin Cities we are in a drought with brown grass in what is usually very green MN.
                       
                      *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately. *****
                      As many "experts" said we will be in for wilder and stranger weather in the years to come.
                      Alan W.

                      --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "Paul Lapointe" <Lapoints@.. .> wrote:
                      >
                      > Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                      > Paul L.
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: jdmyers@...
                      > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                      > Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                      > Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                      >
                      >
                      > ALL,
                      > An update from yesterdays post:
                      > We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                      > night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                      > sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we tacked
                      > back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                      > would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                      > a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                      > I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                      > yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                      > These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                      > carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                      > diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!
                      >
                      > I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                      > the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                      > winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                      > quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                      > still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.
                      >
                      > If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                      > Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                      > light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                      > 10 years.
                      >
                      > Fair Winds!!!!!
                      > John Myers
                      >
                      > > -------- Original Message --------
                      > > Subject: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                      > > From: jdmyers@...
                      > > Date: Sun, August 02, 2009 6:52 am
                      > > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                      > > TO: ALL
                      > > Cindi and I have been sailing Lake Huron for the past nearly two weeks.
                      > > So far we have made little progress with wind and storms keeping us in
                      > > various ports for 2 to 3 days at a time. Currently I am writing this
                      > > from Port Austin, Michigan sitting in the cockpit of our Watkins 25, Y
                      > > KNOT. The wind is blowing 12-15 knots out of the West and the boat is
                      > > rocking and rolling in her slip. We have been stuck here 2 days. The
                      > > town is nice but we have seen it all and done it all.
                      > > The wind is predicted to lay a little this afternoon then build to 20+
                      > > knots tomorrow. We plan to motor almost dead into the wind with 2-4 ft
                      > > waves this afternoon for an 18 mile slog back to Caseville, Mi. I
                      > > brought my air conditioner and two fans my mistake. I should have
                      > > brought my heater. We are burning candles at night for heat. Foulies
                      > > by day. We usually walk the beaches and swim at each port. This SUMMER
                      > > we need sweats or foulies to walk the beach. So much for global
                      > > warming!
                      > > God's Speed
                      > > John Myers
                      > > S/V Y KNOT
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >



















                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Alan Wilson
                      I think I didn t make myself clear Brian. I do not claim to be an expert on global weather. I do not know that wild temperature swings and a record cold
                      Message 10 of 23 , Aug 4, 2009
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                        I think I didn't make myself clear Brian. I do not claim to be an expert on global weather. I do not know that wild temperature swings and a record cold summer but yet dry means anything special to the World. However the news from around the world does reflect the same kind of reports from lots of locations Northern and Southern hemispheres. I did try to say that "experts"(do they know what they are talking about???) can only agree that we will in for wilder weather due to the warming that has already happened. There is documentation of the warming. There is a huge multinational effort that has been monitoring the polar climates that report a 10 degree F change in temps(refer to the 2007 report from thousands of monitoring stations taken from 2000 to 2005, the third report in the series, next one due 2011 to 2012) to support that humans may have had a hand in these changes then I would ask what you will take as evidence that humans have affected the world climate? Perhaps nothing will change your mind, yet a search on the internet will yield a number of confirming data sources from all around the world. Perhaps I have been hearing false reporting. maybe they are all making it up. But I have never worn my wool socks in summer before!

                        --- In watkins@yahoogroups.com, capbrian <capbrian@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > That is not evidence that "we humans" have affected the climate...merely that it has been different lately...
                        >  
                        > let's not confuse the two things.
                        >
                        > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@...>
                        > Subject: [watkins] Re: S.ailing the Great Lakes
                        > To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:52 PM
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ****I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the day. However down here in the Twin Cities we are in a drought with brown grass in what is usually very green MN.
                        >  
                        > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately. *****
                        > As many "experts" said we will be in for wilder and stranger weather in the years to come.
                        > Alan W.
                        >
                        > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "Paul Lapointe" <Lapoints@ .> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                        > > Paul L.
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: jdmyers@
                        > > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                        > > Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                        > > Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ALL,
                        > > An update from yesterdays post:
                        > > We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                        > > night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                        > > sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we tacked
                        > > back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                        > > would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                        > > a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                        > > I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                        > > yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                        > > These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                        > > carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                        > > diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!
                        > >
                        > > I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                        > > the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                        > > winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                        > > quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                        > > still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.
                        > >
                        > > If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                        > > Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                        > > light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                        > > 10 years.
                        > >
                        > > Fair Winds!!!!!
                        > > John Myers
                        > >
                      • capbrian
                        I must have failed also. You claimed that the weather changes in themselves are proof that the changes were caused by mankind. it aint so; Weather changes can
                        Message 11 of 23 , Aug 5, 2009
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                          I must have failed also. You claimed that the weather changes in themselves are proof that the changes were caused by mankind. it aint so; Weather changes can be caused by weather on the sun; there were weather changes before cavemen discovered fire. 
                           
                          There may be _other_ evidence that man has caused changes but the existence of changes  are not proof of what caused them.
                           
                          Have a nice sail; beware of sudden squalls which " prove " the mermaids caused them.
                           
                          Bryan - W30 for sale

                          --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@...> wrote:


                          From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@...>
                          Subject: [watkins] Great Lakes OT: Weather
                          To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:09 PM


                           



                          I think I didn't make myself clear Brian. I do not claim to be an expert on global weather. I do not know that wild temperature swings and a record cold summer but yet dry means anything special to the World. However the news from around the world does reflect the same kind of reports from lots of locations Northern and Southern hemispheres. I did try to say that "experts"(do they know what they are talking about???) can only agree that we will in for wilder weather due to the warming that has already happened. There is documentation of the warming. There is a huge multinational effort that has been monitoring the polar climates that report a 10 degree F change in temps(refer to the 2007 report from thousands of monitoring stations taken from 2000 to 2005, the third report in the series, next one due 2011 to 2012) to support that humans may have had a hand in these changes then I would ask what you will take as evidence that humans have affected the
                          world climate? Perhaps nothing will change your mind, yet a search on the internet will yield a number of confirming data sources from all around the world. Perhaps I have been hearing false reporting. maybe they are all making it up. But I have never worn my wool socks in summer before!

                          --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, capbrian <capbrian@.. .> wrote:
                          >
                          > That is not evidence that "we humans" have affected the climate...merely that it has been different lately...
                          >  
                          > let's not confuse the two things.
                          >
                          > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...>
                          > Subject: [watkins] Re: S.ailing the Great Lakes
                          > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                          > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:52 PM
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ****I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the day. However down here in the Twin Cities we are in a drought with brown grass in what is usually very green MN.
                          >  
                          > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately. *****
                          > As many "experts" said we will be in for wilder and stranger weather in the years to come.
                          > Alan W.
                          >
                          > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "Paul Lapointe" <Lapoints@ .> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                          > > Paul L.
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: jdmyers@
                          > > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                          > > Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                          > > Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ALL,
                          > > An update from yesterdays post:
                          > > We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                          > > night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                          > > sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we tacked
                          > > back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                          > > would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                          > > a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                          > > I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                          > > yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                          > > These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                          > > carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                          > > diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!
                          > >
                          > > I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                          > > the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                          > > winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                          > > quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                          > > still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.
                          > >
                          > > If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                          > > Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                          > > light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                          > > 10 years.
                          > >
                          > > Fair Winds!!!!!
                          > > John Myers
                          > >



















                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • martin schoenbauer
                          Don t want to keep the debate going too long just want to point out that you can do carbon dating of CO2 in the atmosphere the same way you do carbon dating of
                          Message 12 of 23 , Aug 5, 2009
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                            Don't want to keep the debate going too long just want to point out that you can do carbon dating of CO2 in the atmosphere the same way you do carbon dating of materials to find their date using c17. When scientists do that they reveal that most of the CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing at an increasing rate from the burning of hydro-carbon fuels -- coal, gas, oil, etc. Also fairly simple to measure the amount of CO2 and see that it has increased since man started burning these fuels in large amounts (since industrial age) as well as where it is going,e.g., absorbed in the oceans etc. When you do these tests you see there are statistically significant changes in the level of CO2 and other hydrocarbons in the atmosphere in the last 100 years with most of the changes taking place in the last 20-30 years.



                            Has it affected the weather -- that is a whole other argument and not as easy to prove because there are many factors that affect our weather. What is known is by looking at the earth's longer historical trends --back to ice ages etc, is that whatever caused the increases and decreases in the atmosphere composition back then resulted in significant affects on the earth's weather patterns -- generally atmosphere changes preceded the earth's climate affects by about 50-100 years. So for us old farts, we likely won't see much. However, without some changes in the current trends (regardless of the cause) our grand kids will see more dramatic climate changes that will affect availability of crop producing lands, clean water etc.



                            Marty





                            To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                            From: capbrian@...
                            Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:49:15 -0700
                            Subject: [watkins] Weather





                            I must have failed also. You claimed that the weather changes in themselves are proof that the changes were caused by mankind. it aint so; Weather changes can be caused by weather on the sun; there were weather changes before cavemen discovered fire.

                            There may be _other_ evidence that man has caused changes but the existence of changes are not proof of what caused them.

                            Have a nice sail; beware of sudden squalls which " prove " the mermaids caused them.

                            Bryan - W30 for sale

                            --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@...> wrote:

                            From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@...>
                            Subject: [watkins] Great Lakes OT: Weather
                            To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:09 PM



                            I think I didn't make myself clear Brian. I do not claim to be an expert on global weather. I do not know that wild temperature swings and a record cold summer but yet dry means anything special to the World. However the news from around the world does reflect the same kind of reports from lots of locations Northern and Southern hemispheres. I did try to say that "experts"(do they know what they are talking about???) can only agree that we will in for wilder weather due to the warming that has already happened. There is documentation of the warming. There is a huge multinational effort that has been monitoring the polar climates that report a 10 degree F change in temps(refer to the 2007 report from thousands of monitoring stations taken from 2000 to 2005, the third report in the series, next one due 2011 to 2012) to support that humans may have had a hand in these changes then I would ask what you will take as evidence that humans have affected the
                            world climate? Perhaps nothing will change your mind, yet a search on the internet will yield a number of confirming data sources from all around the world. Perhaps I have been hearing false reporting. maybe they are all making it up. But I have never worn my wool socks in summer before!

                            --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, capbrian <capbrian@.. .> wrote:
                            >
                            > That is not evidence that "we humans" have affected the climate...merely that it has been different lately...
                            >
                            > let's not confuse the two things.
                            >
                            > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...>
                            > Subject: [watkins] Re: S.ailing the Great Lakes
                            > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                            > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:52 PM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ****I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the day. However down here in the Twin Cities we are in a drought with brown grass in what is usually very green MN.
                            >
                            > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately. *****
                            > As many "experts" said we will be in for wilder and stranger weather in the years to come.
                            > Alan W.
                            >
                            > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "Paul Lapointe" <Lapoints@ .> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                            > > Paul L.
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: jdmyers@
                            > > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                            > > Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                            > > Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ALL,
                            > > An update from yesterdays post:
                            > > We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                            > > night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                            > > sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we tacked
                            > > back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                            > > would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                            > > a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                            > > I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                            > > yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                            > > These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                            > > carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                            > > diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!
                            > >
                            > > I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                            > > the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                            > > winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                            > > quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                            > > still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.
                            > >
                            > > If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                            > > Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                            > > light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                            > > 10 years.
                            > >
                            > > Fair Winds!!!!!
                            > > John Myers
                            > >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]










                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • capbrian
                            Hi, You keep missing the point. Re-read what you wrote :viz. ...   and I am sure you will see it.   unusual patterns of weather are evidence only of
                            Message 13 of 23 , Aug 5, 2009
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                              Hi, You keep missing the point.
                              Re-read what you wrote :viz.
                              >
                              > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately. *****
                               
                              and I am sure you will see it.
                               
                              " unusual patterns of weather " are evidence only of change; they are not  "evidence that we humans have affected." anything.
                               
                              It might have been the Martians who affected it for all one can tell by "looking at the patterns " 
                               
                              Back to Watkins then : a fine Welsh name and very prevalent where I was born. Probably refers to kinfolk of Wat Tyler - a good sound anti-establishment figure around here some years ago.
                               
                              Bryan
                               
                               


                              --- On Wed, 8/5/09, martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@...> wrote:


                              From: martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@...>
                              Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather
                              To: "watkins" <watkins@yahoogroups.com>
                              Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 1:19 PM


                               




                              Don't want to keep the debate going too long just want to point out that you can do carbon dating of CO2 in the atmosphere the same way you do carbon dating of materials to find their date using c17. When scientists do that they reveal that most of the CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing at an increasing rate from the burning of hydro-carbon fuels -- coal, gas, oil, etc. Also fairly simple to measure the amount of CO2 and see that it has increased since man started burning these fuels in large amounts (since industrial age) as well as where it is going,e.g., absorbed in the oceans etc. When you do these tests you see there are statistically significant changes in the level of CO2 and other hydrocarbons in the atmosphere in the last 100 years with most of the changes taking place in the last 20-30 years.

                              Has it affected the weather -- that is a whole other argument and not as easy to prove because there are many factors that affect our weather. What is known is by looking at the earth's longer historical trends --back to ice ages etc, is that whatever caused the increases and decreases in the atmosphere composition back then resulted in significant affects on the earth's weather patterns -- generally atmosphere changes preceded the earth's climate affects by about 50-100 years. So for us old farts, we likely won't see much. However, without some changes in the current trends (regardless of the cause) our grand kids will see more dramatic climate changes that will affect availability of crop producing lands, clean water etc.

                              Marty

                              To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                              From: capbrian@yahoo. com
                              Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:49:15 -0700
                              Subject: [watkins] Weather

                              I must have failed also. You claimed that the weather changes in themselves are proof that the changes were caused by mankind. it aint so; Weather changes can be caused by weather on the sun; there were weather changes before cavemen discovered fire.

                              There may be _other_ evidence that man has caused changes but the existence of changes are not proof of what caused them.

                              Have a nice sail; beware of sudden squalls which " prove " the mermaids caused them.

                              Bryan - W30 for sale

                              --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com> wrote:

                              From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com>
                              Subject: [watkins] Great Lakes OT: Weather
                              To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                              Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:09 PM

                              I think I didn't make myself clear Brian. I do not claim to be an expert on global weather. I do not know that wild temperature swings and a record cold summer but yet dry means anything special to the World. However the news from around the world does reflect the same kind of reports from lots of locations Northern and Southern hemispheres. I did try to say that "experts"(do they know what they are talking about???) can only agree that we will in for wilder weather due to the warming that has already happened. There is documentation of the warming. There is a huge multinational effort that has been monitoring the polar climates that report a 10 degree F change in temps(refer to the 2007 report from thousands of monitoring stations taken from 2000 to 2005, the third report in the series, next one due 2011 to 2012) to support that humans may have had a hand in these changes then I would ask what you will take as evidence that humans have affected the
                              world climate? Perhaps nothing will change your mind, yet a search on the internet will yield a number of confirming data sources from all around the world. Perhaps I have been hearing false reporting. maybe they are all making it up. But I have never worn my wool socks in summer before!

                              --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, capbrian <capbrian@.. .> wrote:
                              >
                              > That is not evidence that "we humans" have affected the climate...merely that it has been different lately...
                              >
                              > let's not confuse the two things.
                              >
                              > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...>
                              > Subject: [watkins] Re: S.ailing the Great Lakes
                              > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                              > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:52 PM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ****I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the day. However down here in the Twin Cities we are in a drought with brown grass in what is usually very green MN.
                              >
                              > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately. *****
                              > As many "experts" said we will be in for wilder and stranger weather in the years to come.
                              > Alan W.
                              >
                              > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "Paul Lapointe" <Lapoints@ .> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                              > > Paul L.
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: jdmyers@
                              > > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                              > > Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                              > > Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ALL,
                              > > An update from yesterdays post:
                              > > We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                              > > night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                              > > sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we tacked
                              > > back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                              > > would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                              > > a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                              > > I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                              > > yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                              > > These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                              > > carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                              > > diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!
                              > >
                              > > I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                              > > the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                              > > winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                              > > quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                              > > still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.
                              > >
                              > > If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                              > > Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                              > > light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                              > > 10 years.
                              > >
                              > > Fair Winds!!!!!
                              > > John Myers
                              > >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Jim
                              I think climate change is due to power-boaters, us sailors are Saints. Jim ... From: capbrian To: watkins@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 8:40
                              Message 14 of 23 , Aug 6, 2009
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                                I think climate change is due to power-boaters, us sailors are Saints.
                                Jim
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: capbrian
                                To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 8:40 AM
                                Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather


                                Hi, You keep missing the point.
                                Re-read what you wrote :viz.
                                >
                                > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately. *****

                                and I am sure you will see it.

                                " unusual patterns of weather " are evidence only of change; they are not "evidence that we humans have affected." anything.

                                It might have been the Martians who affected it for all one can tell by "looking at the patterns "

                                Back to Watkins then : a fine Welsh name and very prevalent where I was born. Probably refers to kinfolk of Wat Tyler - a good sound anti-establishment figure around here some years ago.

                                Bryan



                                --- On Wed, 8/5/09, martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@...> wrote:

                                From: martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@...>
                                Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather
                                To: "watkins" <watkins@yahoogroups.com>
                                Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 1:19 PM



                                Don't want to keep the debate going too long just want to point out that you can do carbon dating of CO2 in the atmosphere the same way you do carbon dating of materials to find their date using c17. When scientists do that they reveal that most of the CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing at an increasing rate from the burning of hydro-carbon fuels -- coal, gas, oil, etc. Also fairly simple to measure the amount of CO2 and see that it has increased since man started burning these fuels in large amounts (since industrial age) as well as where it is going,e.g., absorbed in the oceans etc. When you do these tests you see there are statistically significant changes in the level of CO2 and other hydrocarbons in the atmosphere in the last 100 years with most of the changes taking place in the last 20-30 years.

                                Has it affected the weather -- that is a whole other argument and not as easy to prove because there are many factors that affect our weather. What is known is by looking at the earth's longer historical trends --back to ice ages etc, is that whatever caused the increases and decreases in the atmosphere composition back then resulted in significant affects on the earth's weather patterns -- generally atmosphere changes preceded the earth's climate affects by about 50-100 years. So for us old farts, we likely won't see much. However, without some changes in the current trends (regardless of the cause) our grand kids will see more dramatic climate changes that will affect availability of crop producing lands, clean water etc.

                                Marty

                                To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                From: capbrian@yahoo. com
                                Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:49:15 -0700
                                Subject: [watkins] Weather

                                I must have failed also. You claimed that the weather changes in themselves are proof that the changes were caused by mankind. it aint so; Weather changes can be caused by weather on the sun; there were weather changes before cavemen discovered fire.

                                There may be _other_ evidence that man has caused changes but the existence of changes are not proof of what caused them.

                                Have a nice sail; beware of sudden squalls which " prove " the mermaids caused them.

                                Bryan - W30 for sale

                                --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com> wrote:

                                From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com>
                                Subject: [watkins] Great Lakes OT: Weather
                                To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:09 PM

                                I think I didn't make myself clear Brian. I do not claim to be an expert on global weather. I do not know that wild temperature swings and a record cold summer but yet dry means anything special to the World. However the news from around the world does reflect the same kind of reports from lots of locations Northern and Southern hemispheres. I did try to say that "experts"(do they know what they are talking about???) can only agree that we will in for wilder weather due to the warming that has already happened. There is documentation of the warming. There is a huge multinational effort that has been monitoring the polar climates that report a 10 degree F change in temps(refer to the 2007 report from thousands of monitoring stations taken from 2000 to 2005, the third report in the series, next one due 2011 to 2012) to support that humans may have had a hand in these changes then I would ask what you will take as evidence that humans have affected the
                                world climate? Perhaps nothing will change your mind, yet a search on the internet will yield a number of confirming data sources from all around the world. Perhaps I have been hearing false reporting. maybe they are all making it up. But I have never worn my wool socks in summer before!

                                --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, capbrian <capbrian@.. .> wrote:
                                >
                                > That is not evidence that "we humans" have affected the climate...merely that it has been different lately...
                                >
                                > let's not confuse the two things.
                                >
                                > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...>
                                > Subject: [watkins] Re: S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:52 PM
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ****I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the day. However down here in the Twin Cities we are in a drought with brown grass in what is usually very green MN.
                                >
                                > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately. *****
                                > As many "experts" said we will be in for wilder and stranger weather in the years to come.
                                > Alan W.
                                >
                                > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "Paul Lapointe" <Lapoints@ .> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                                > > Paul L.
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: jdmyers@
                                > > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                > > Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                                > > Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ALL,
                                > > An update from yesterdays post:
                                > > We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                                > > night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                                > > sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we tacked
                                > > back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                                > > would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                                > > a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                                > > I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                                > > yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                                > > These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                                > > carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                                > > diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!
                                > >
                                > > I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                                > > the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                                > > winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                                > > quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                                > > still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.
                                > >
                                > > If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                                > > Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                                > > light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                                > > 10 years.
                                > >
                                > > Fair Winds!!!!!
                                > > John Myers
                                > >

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                              • Paul Lapointe
                                Not taking sides, but two weeks ago on the Science channel they showed a number of climate scientist (all were from reputable universities, research groups or
                                Message 15 of 23 , Aug 6, 2009
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                                  Not taking sides, but two weeks ago on the Science channel they showed a number of climate scientist (all were from reputable universities, research groups or government agencies) to dispute the claim that C02 is at the heart of our global warming. They showed that over the centuries CO2 emissions have followed temperature increases/decreases not the other way around. Now, these people are still in the minority, but present some interesting alternatives. The also point out that there are other gases, such as methane, which are found in greater quantities and have higher greenhouse effects that CO2, but have received little or no study. They contend that CO2 has become a convenient and easy political scapegoat. Their overall contention is that while we are "wasting" time, money and political capital on the lesser evil CO2, the real culprits are going unnoticed.
                                  Once upon a time the majority of the "learned" thinkers of their time believed that the universe rotated around the earth, and later the sun, that the earth was no more than 4 thousand years old, and that blood letting cured many of the ills of their times. Recent advancements, such as GPS and the finding of the Hubble telescope have challenged and changed the way we viewed space and time. Newton's laws of gravity have been proven to be great approximations (good enough to get us to the moon and back) but ultimately wrong. I for one will try to keep an open mind. That said, I must admit I have enjoyed the give and take on the subject of global warming, even thought it is not Watkins/sailing related. I just hope it does not digress from an intellectual exercise into a flame war between any of our site members.
                                  Now as so many of our erstwhile colleagues on this site say: Just go Sailing!
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: martin schoenbauer
                                  To: watkins
                                  Sent: 2009-08-05 08:19
                                  Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather



                                  Don't want to keep the debate going too long just want to point out that you can do carbon dating of CO2 in the atmosphere the same way you do carbon dating of materials to find their date using c17. When scientists do that they reveal that most of the CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing at an increasing rate from the burning of hydro-carbon fuels -- coal, gas, oil, etc. Also fairly simple to measure the amount of CO2 and see that it has increased since man started burning these fuels in large amounts (since industrial age) as well as where it is going,e.g., absorbed in the oceans etc. When you do these tests you see there are statistically significant changes in the level of CO2 and other hydrocarbons in the atmosphere in the last 100 years with most of the changes taking place in the last 20-30 years.

                                  Has it affected the weather -- that is a whole other argument and not as easy to prove because there are many factors that affect our weather. What is known is by looking at the earth's longer historical trends --back to ice ages etc, is that whatever caused the increases and decreases in the atmosphere composition back then resulted in significant affects on the earth's weather patterns -- generally atmosphere changes preceded the earth's climate affects by about 50-100 years. So for us old farts, we likely won't see much. However, without some changes in the current trends (regardless of the cause) our grand kids will see more dramatic climate changes that will affect availability of crop producing lands, clean water etc.

                                  Marty

                                  To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: capbrian@...
                                  Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:49:15 -0700
                                  Subject: [watkins] Weather

                                  I must have failed also. You claimed that the weather changes in themselves are proof that the changes were caused by mankind. it aint so; Weather changes can be caused by weather on the sun; there were weather changes before cavemen discovered fire.

                                  There may be _other_ evidence that man has caused changes but the existence of changes are not proof of what caused them.

                                  Have a nice sail; beware of sudden squalls which " prove " the mermaids caused them.

                                  Bryan - W30 for sale

                                  --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@...> wrote:

                                  From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@...>
                                  Subject: [watkins] Great Lakes OT: Weather
                                  To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:09 PM

                                  I think I didn't make myself clear Brian. I do not claim to be an expert on global weather. I do not know that wild temperature swings and a record cold summer but yet dry means anything special to the World. However the news from around the world does reflect the same kind of reports from lots of locations Northern and Southern hemispheres. I did try to say that "experts"(do they know what they are talking about???) can only agree that we will in for wilder weather due to the warming that has already happened. There is documentation of the warming. There is a huge multinational effort that has been monitoring the polar climates that report a 10 degree F change in temps(refer to the 2007 report from thousands of monitoring stations taken from 2000 to 2005, the third report in the series, next one due 2011 to 2012) to support that humans may have had a hand in these changes then I would ask what you will take as evidence that humans have affected the
                                  world climate? Perhaps nothing will change your mind, yet a search on the internet will yield a number of confirming data sources from all around the world. Perhaps I have been hearing false reporting. maybe they are all making it up. But I have never worn my wool socks in summer before!

                                  --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, capbrian <capbrian@.. .> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > That is not evidence that "we humans" have affected the climate...merely that it has been different lately...
                                  >
                                  > let's not confuse the two things.
                                  >
                                  > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...>
                                  > Subject: [watkins] Re: S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                  > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                  > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:52 PM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ****I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the day. However down here in the Twin Cities we are in a drought with brown grass in what is usually very green MN.
                                  >
                                  > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately. *****
                                  > As many "experts" said we will be in for wilder and stranger weather in the years to come.
                                  > Alan W.
                                  >
                                  > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "Paul Lapointe" <Lapoints@ .> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                                  > > Paul L.
                                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > From: jdmyers@
                                  > > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                  > > Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                                  > > Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ALL,
                                  > > An update from yesterdays post:
                                  > > We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                                  > > night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                                  > > sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we tacked
                                  > > back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                                  > > would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                                  > > a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                                  > > I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                                  > > yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                                  > > These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                                  > > carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                                  > > diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!
                                  > >
                                  > > I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                                  > > the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                                  > > winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                                  > > quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                                  > > still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.
                                  > >
                                  > > If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                                  > > Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                                  > > light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                                  > > 10 years.
                                  > >
                                  > > Fair Winds!!!!!
                                  > > John Myers
                                  > >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Paul Lapointe
                                  Must be so. Statistics show that 95% (BoatUS) of all boats registered in America are power boats. So if sailor are saints powerboaters must be sinners. That
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Aug 6, 2009
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                                    Must be so. Statistics show that 95% (BoatUS) of all boats registered in America are power boats. So if sailor are saints powerboaters must be sinners. That means sinners out number saints 9.5 to one. That is about the right ratio espoused by most Christian religions. Therefore Jim you statement is empirically proven. So the next time someone calls me a shit head I can say..................................................................(That's SAINT shithead to you!!) :-)
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Jim
                                    To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: 2009-08-06 10:08
                                    Subject: Re: [watkins] Weather


                                    I think climate change is due to power-boaters, us sailors are Saints.
                                    Jim
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: capbrian
                                    To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 8:40 AM
                                    Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather

                                    Hi, You keep missing the point.
                                    Re-read what you wrote :viz.
                                    >
                                    > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately. *****

                                    and I am sure you will see it.

                                    " unusual patterns of weather " are evidence only of change; they are not "evidence that we humans have affected." anything.

                                    It might have been the Martians who affected it for all one can tell by "looking at the patterns "

                                    Back to Watkins then : a fine Welsh name and very prevalent where I was born. Probably refers to kinfolk of Wat Tyler - a good sound anti-establishment figure around here some years ago.

                                    Bryan



                                    --- On Wed, 8/5/09, martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@...> wrote:

                                    From: martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@...>
                                    Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather
                                    To: "watkins" <watkins@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 1:19 PM

                                    Don't want to keep the debate going too long just want to point out that you can do carbon dating of CO2 in the atmosphere the same way you do carbon dating of materials to find their date using c17. When scientists do that they reveal that most of the CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing at an increasing rate from the burning of hydro-carbon fuels -- coal, gas, oil, etc. Also fairly simple to measure the amount of CO2 and see that it has increased since man started burning these fuels in large amounts (since industrial age) as well as where it is going,e.g., absorbed in the oceans etc. When you do these tests you see there are statistically significant changes in the level of CO2 and other hydrocarbons in the atmosphere in the last 100 years with most of the changes taking place in the last 20-30 years.

                                    Has it affected the weather -- that is a whole other argument and not as easy to prove because there are many factors that affect our weather. What is known is by looking at the earth's longer historical trends --back to ice ages etc, is that whatever caused the increases and decreases in the atmosphere composition back then resulted in significant affects on the earth's weather patterns -- generally atmosphere changes preceded the earth's climate affects by about 50-100 years. So for us old farts, we likely won't see much. However, without some changes in the current trends (regardless of the cause) our grand kids will see more dramatic climate changes that will affect availability of crop producing lands, clean water etc.

                                    Marty

                                    To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                    From: capbrian@yahoo. com
                                    Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:49:15 -0700
                                    Subject: [watkins] Weather

                                    I must have failed also. You claimed that the weather changes in themselves are proof that the changes were caused by mankind. it aint so; Weather changes can be caused by weather on the sun; there were weather changes before cavemen discovered fire.

                                    There may be _other_ evidence that man has caused changes but the existence of changes are not proof of what caused them.

                                    Have a nice sail; beware of sudden squalls which " prove " the mermaids caused them.

                                    Bryan - W30 for sale

                                    --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com> wrote:

                                    From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com>
                                    Subject: [watkins] Great Lakes OT: Weather
                                    To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                    Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:09 PM

                                    I think I didn't make myself clear Brian. I do not claim to be an expert on global weather. I do not know that wild temperature swings and a record cold summer but yet dry means anything special to the World. However the news from around the world does reflect the same kind of reports from lots of locations Northern and Southern hemispheres. I did try to say that "experts"(do they know what they are talking about???) can only agree that we will in for wilder weather due to the warming that has already happened. There is documentation of the warming. There is a huge multinational effort that has been monitoring the polar climates that report a 10 degree F change in temps(refer to the 2007 report from thousands of monitoring stations taken from 2000 to 2005, the third report in the series, next one due 2011 to 2012) to support that humans may have had a hand in these changes then I would ask what you will take as evidence that humans have affected the
                                    world climate? Perhaps nothing will change your mind, yet a search on the internet will yield a number of confirming data sources from all around the world. Perhaps I have been hearing false reporting. maybe they are all making it up. But I have never worn my wool socks in summer before!

                                    --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, capbrian <capbrian@.. .> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > That is not evidence that "we humans" have affected the climate...merely that it has been different lately...
                                    >
                                    > let's not confuse the two things.
                                    >
                                    > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...>
                                    > Subject: [watkins] Re: S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                    > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                    > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:52 PM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ****I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the day. However down here in the Twin Cities we are in a drought with brown grass in what is usually very green MN.
                                    >
                                    > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately. *****
                                    > As many "experts" said we will be in for wilder and stranger weather in the years to come.
                                    > Alan W.
                                    >
                                    > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "Paul Lapointe" <Lapoints@ .> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                                    > > Paul L.
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: jdmyers@
                                    > > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                    > > Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                                    > > Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ALL,
                                    > > An update from yesterdays post:
                                    > > We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                                    > > night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                                    > > sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we tacked
                                    > > back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                                    > > would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                                    > > a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                                    > > I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                                    > > yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                                    > > These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                                    > > carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                                    > > diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!
                                    > >
                                    > > I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                                    > > the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                                    > > winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                                    > > quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                                    > > still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.
                                    > >
                                    > > If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                                    > > Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                                    > > light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                                    > > 10 years.
                                    > >
                                    > > Fair Winds!!!!!
                                    > > John Myers
                                    > >

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                  • Steve Butts
                                    What about those of us who own both? Steve B. ... From: watkins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Paul Lapointe Sent: Thursday,
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Aug 6, 2009
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                                      What about those of us who own both?

                                      Steve B.

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: watkins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                                      Paul Lapointe
                                      Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 1:16 PM
                                      To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [watkins] Weather


                                      Must be so. Statistics show that 95% (BoatUS) of all boats registered in
                                      America are power boats. So if sailor are saints powerboaters must be
                                      sinners. That means sinners out number saints 9.5 to one. That is about the
                                      right ratio espoused by most Christian religions. Therefore Jim you
                                      statement is empirically proven. So the next time someone calls me a shit
                                      head I can
                                      say..................................................................(That's
                                      SAINT shithead to you!!) :-)
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Jim
                                      To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: 2009-08-06 10:08
                                      Subject: Re: [watkins] Weather

                                      I think climate change is due to power-boaters, us sailors are Saints.
                                      Jim
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: capbrian
                                      To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 8:40 AM
                                      Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather

                                      Hi, You keep missing the point.
                                      Re-read what you wrote :viz.
                                      >
                                      > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's
                                      climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately.
                                      *****

                                      and I am sure you will see it.

                                      " unusual patterns of weather " are evidence only of change; they are not
                                      "evidence that we humans have affected." anything.

                                      It might have been the Martians who affected it for all one can tell by
                                      "looking at the patterns "

                                      Back to Watkins then : a fine Welsh name and very prevalent where I was
                                      born. Probably refers to kinfolk of Wat Tyler - a good sound
                                      anti-establishment figure around here some years ago.

                                      Bryan

                                      --- On Wed, 8/5/09, martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@...> wrote:

                                      From: martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@...>
                                      Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather
                                      To: "watkins" <watkins@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 1:19 PM

                                      Don't want to keep the debate going too long just want to point out that
                                      you can do carbon dating of CO2 in the atmosphere the same way you do carbon
                                      dating of materials to find their date using c17. When scientists do that
                                      they reveal that most of the CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing at an
                                      increasing rate from the burning of hydro-carbon fuels -- coal, gas, oil,
                                      etc. Also fairly simple to measure the amount of CO2 and see that it has
                                      increased since man started burning these fuels in large amounts (since
                                      industrial age) as well as where it is going,e.g., absorbed in the oceans
                                      etc. When you do these tests you see there are statistically significant
                                      changes in the level of CO2 and other hydrocarbons in the atmosphere in the
                                      last 100 years with most of the changes taking place in the last 20-30
                                      years.

                                      Has it affected the weather -- that is a whole other argument and not as
                                      easy to prove because there are many factors that affect our weather. What
                                      is known is by looking at the earth's longer historical trends --back to ice
                                      ages etc, is that whatever caused the increases and decreases in the
                                      atmosphere composition back then resulted in significant affects on the
                                      earth's weather patterns -- generally atmosphere changes preceded the
                                      earth's climate affects by about 50-100 years. So for us old farts, we
                                      likely won't see much. However, without some changes in the current trends
                                      (regardless of the cause) our grand kids will see more dramatic climate
                                      changes that will affect availability of crop producing lands, clean water
                                      etc.

                                      Marty

                                      To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                      From: capbrian@yahoo. com
                                      Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:49:15 -0700
                                      Subject: [watkins] Weather

                                      I must have failed also. You claimed that the weather changes in
                                      themselves are proof that the changes were caused by mankind. it aint so;
                                      Weather changes can be caused by weather on the sun; there were weather
                                      changes before cavemen discovered fire.

                                      There may be _other_ evidence that man has caused changes but the
                                      existence of changes are not proof of what caused them.

                                      Have a nice sail; beware of sudden squalls which " prove " the mermaids
                                      caused them.

                                      Bryan - W30 for sale

                                      --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com> wrote:

                                      From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com>
                                      Subject: [watkins] Great Lakes OT: Weather
                                      To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                      Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:09 PM

                                      I think I didn't make myself clear Brian. I do not claim to be an expert
                                      on global weather. I do not know that wild temperature swings and a record
                                      cold summer but yet dry means anything special to the World. However the
                                      news from around the world does reflect the same kind of reports from lots
                                      of locations Northern and Southern hemispheres. I did try to say that
                                      "experts"(do they know what they are talking about???) can only agree that
                                      we will in for wilder weather due to the warming that has already happened.
                                      There is documentation of the warming. There is a huge multinational effort
                                      that has been monitoring the polar climates that report a 10 degree F change
                                      in temps(refer to the 2007 report from thousands of monitoring stations
                                      taken from 2000 to 2005, the third report in the series, next one due 2011
                                      to 2012) to support that humans may have had a hand in these changes then I
                                      would ask what you will take as evidence that humans have affected the
                                      world climate? Perhaps nothing will change your mind, yet a search on the
                                      internet will yield a number of confirming data sources from all around the
                                      world. Perhaps I have been hearing false reporting. maybe they are all
                                      making it up. But I have never worn my wool socks in summer before!

                                      --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, capbrian <capbrian@.. .> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > That is not evidence that "we humans" have affected the climate...merely
                                      that it has been different lately...
                                      >
                                      > let's not confuse the two things.
                                      >
                                      > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...>
                                      > Subject: [watkins] Re: S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                      > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                      > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:52 PM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ****I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd
                                      cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the
                                      day. However down here in the Twin Cities we are in a drought with brown
                                      grass in what is usually very green MN.
                                      >
                                      > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's
                                      climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately.
                                      *****
                                      > As many "experts" said we will be in for wilder and stranger weather in
                                      the years to come.
                                      > Alan W.
                                      >
                                      > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "Paul Lapointe" <Lapoints@ .> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and
                                      about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                                      > > Paul L.
                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > From: jdmyers@
                                      > > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                      > > Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                                      > > Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ALL,
                                      > > An update from yesterdays post:
                                      > > We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                                      > > night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                                      > > sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we
                                      tacked
                                      > > back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                                      > > would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                                      > > a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                                      > > I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                                      > > yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                                      > > These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                                      > > carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                                      > > diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!
                                      > >
                                      > > I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                                      > > the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                                      > > winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                                      > > quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                                      > > still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.
                                      > >
                                      > > If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                                      > > Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                                      > > light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                                      > > 10 years.
                                      > >
                                      > > Fair Winds!!!!!
                                      > > John Myers
                                      > >

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                    • Kevin Egolf
                                      Maybe we are saintly sinners. Kevin From: watkins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Butts Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Aug 6, 2009
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                                        Maybe we are saintly sinners.



                                        Kevin









                                        From: watkins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                        Steve Butts
                                        Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 1:33 PM
                                        To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather





                                        What about those of us who own both?

                                        Steve B.

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> ]On
                                        Behalf Of
                                        Paul Lapointe
                                        Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 1:16 PM
                                        To: watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        Subject: Re: [watkins] Weather

                                        Must be so. Statistics show that 95% (BoatUS) of all boats registered in
                                        America are power boats. So if sailor are saints powerboaters must be
                                        sinners. That means sinners out number saints 9.5 to one. That is about the
                                        right ratio espoused by most Christian religions. Therefore Jim you
                                        statement is empirically proven. So the next time someone calls me a shit
                                        head I can
                                        say..................................................................(That's
                                        SAINT shithead to you!!) :-)
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Jim
                                        To: watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: 2009-08-06 10:08
                                        Subject: Re: [watkins] Weather

                                        I think climate change is due to power-boaters, us sailors are Saints.
                                        Jim
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: capbrian
                                        To: watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 8:40 AM
                                        Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather

                                        Hi, You keep missing the point.
                                        Re-read what you wrote :viz.
                                        >
                                        > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's
                                        climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately.
                                        *****

                                        and I am sure you will see it.

                                        " unusual patterns of weather " are evidence only of change; they are not
                                        "evidence that we humans have affected." anything.

                                        It might have been the Martians who affected it for all one can tell by
                                        "looking at the patterns "

                                        Back to Watkins then : a fine Welsh name and very prevalent where I was
                                        born. Probably refers to kinfolk of Wat Tyler - a good sound
                                        anti-establishment figure around here some years ago.

                                        Bryan

                                        --- On Wed, 8/5/09, martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@...
                                        <mailto:jansea6815%40msn.com> > wrote:

                                        From: martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@... <mailto:jansea6815%40msn.com> >
                                        Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather
                                        To: "watkins" <watkins@yahoogroups.com <mailto:watkins%40yahoogroups.com> >
                                        Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 1:19 PM

                                        Don't want to keep the debate going too long just want to point out that
                                        you can do carbon dating of CO2 in the atmosphere the same way you do carbon
                                        dating of materials to find their date using c17. When scientists do that
                                        they reveal that most of the CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing at an
                                        increasing rate from the burning of hydro-carbon fuels -- coal, gas, oil,
                                        etc. Also fairly simple to measure the amount of CO2 and see that it has
                                        increased since man started burning these fuels in large amounts (since
                                        industrial age) as well as where it is going,e.g., absorbed in the oceans
                                        etc. When you do these tests you see there are statistically significant
                                        changes in the level of CO2 and other hydrocarbons in the atmosphere in the
                                        last 100 years with most of the changes taking place in the last 20-30
                                        years.

                                        Has it affected the weather -- that is a whole other argument and not as
                                        easy to prove because there are many factors that affect our weather. What
                                        is known is by looking at the earth's longer historical trends --back to ice
                                        ages etc, is that whatever caused the increases and decreases in the
                                        atmosphere composition back then resulted in significant affects on the
                                        earth's weather patterns -- generally atmosphere changes preceded the
                                        earth's climate affects by about 50-100 years. So for us old farts, we
                                        likely won't see much. However, without some changes in the current trends
                                        (regardless of the cause) our grand kids will see more dramatic climate
                                        changes that will affect availability of crop producing lands, clean water
                                        etc.

                                        Marty

                                        To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                        From: capbrian@yahoo. com
                                        Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:49:15 -0700
                                        Subject: [watkins] Weather

                                        I must have failed also. You claimed that the weather changes in
                                        themselves are proof that the changes were caused by mankind. it aint so;
                                        Weather changes can be caused by weather on the sun; there were weather
                                        changes before cavemen discovered fire.

                                        There may be _other_ evidence that man has caused changes but the
                                        existence of changes are not proof of what caused them.

                                        Have a nice sail; beware of sudden squalls which " prove " the mermaids
                                        caused them.

                                        Bryan - W30 for sale

                                        --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com> wrote:

                                        From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com>
                                        Subject: [watkins] Great Lakes OT: Weather
                                        To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                        Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:09 PM

                                        I think I didn't make myself clear Brian. I do not claim to be an expert
                                        on global weather. I do not know that wild temperature swings and a record
                                        cold summer but yet dry means anything special to the World. However the
                                        news from around the world does reflect the same kind of reports from lots
                                        of locations Northern and Southern hemispheres. I did try to say that
                                        "experts"(do they know what they are talking about???) can only agree that
                                        we will in for wilder weather due to the warming that has already happened.
                                        There is documentation of the warming. There is a huge multinational effort
                                        that has been monitoring the polar climates that report a 10 degree F change
                                        in temps(refer to the 2007 report from thousands of monitoring stations
                                        taken from 2000 to 2005, the third report in the series, next one due 2011
                                        to 2012) to support that humans may have had a hand in these changes then I
                                        would ask what you will take as evidence that humans have affected the
                                        world climate? Perhaps nothing will change your mind, yet a search on the
                                        internet will yield a number of confirming data sources from all around the
                                        world. Perhaps I have been hearing false reporting. maybe they are all
                                        making it up. But I have never worn my wool socks in summer before!

                                        --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, capbrian <capbrian@.. .> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > That is not evidence that "we humans" have affected the climate...merely
                                        that it has been different lately...
                                        >
                                        > let's not confuse the two things.
                                        >
                                        > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...>
                                        > Subject: [watkins] Re: S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                        > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                        > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:52 PM
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ****I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd
                                        cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the
                                        day. However down here in the Twin Cities we are in a drought with brown
                                        grass in what is usually very green MN.
                                        >
                                        > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's
                                        climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately.
                                        *****
                                        > As many "experts" said we will be in for wilder and stranger weather in
                                        the years to come.
                                        > Alan W.
                                        >
                                        > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "Paul Lapointe" <Lapoints@ .> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and
                                        about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                                        > > Paul L.
                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > From: jdmyers@
                                        > > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                        > > Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                                        > > Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ALL,
                                        > > An update from yesterdays post:
                                        > > We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                                        > > night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                                        > > sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we
                                        tacked
                                        > > back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                                        > > would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                                        > > a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                                        > > I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                                        > > yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                                        > > These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                                        > > carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                                        > > diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!
                                        > >
                                        > > I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                                        > > the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                                        > > winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                                        > > quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                                        > > still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.
                                        > >
                                        > > If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                                        > > Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                                        > > light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                                        > > 10 years.
                                        > >
                                        > > Fair Winds!!!!!
                                        > > John Myers
                                        > >

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                        ----------------------------------------------------------

                                        No virus found in this incoming message.
                                        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                        Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2285 - Release Date: 08/06/09
                                        05:57:00

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                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • capbrian
                                        I hate all this PC stuff. Call it as it is . ;-)   Power-boaters are Stink-boaters . Sail boats ( being green ) should have govt. subsidies based on sail
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Aug 6, 2009
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                                          I hate all this PC stuff. Call it as it is . ;-)
                                           
                                          Power-boaters are Stink-boaters . Sail boats ( being 'green' ) should have govt. subsidies based on sail area..Big sails= big subsidy
                                           
                                          Bryan

                                          --- On Thu, 6/8/09, Kevin Egolf <klegolf@...> wrote:


                                          From: Kevin Egolf <klegolf@...>
                                          Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather
                                          To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Thursday, 6 August, 2009, 6:50 PM


                                           



                                          Maybe we are saintly sinners.

                                          Kevin

                                          From: watkins@yahoogroups .com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of
                                          Steve Butts
                                          Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 1:33 PM
                                          To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                          Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather

                                          What about those of us who own both?

                                          Steve B.

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                          [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com> ]On
                                          Behalf Of
                                          Paul Lapointe
                                          Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 1:16 PM
                                          To: watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                          Subject: Re: [watkins] Weather

                                          Must be so. Statistics show that 95% (BoatUS) of all boats registered in
                                          America are power boats. So if sailor are saints powerboaters must be
                                          sinners. That means sinners out number saints 9.5 to one. That is about the
                                          right ratio espoused by most Christian religions. Therefore Jim you
                                          statement is empirically proven. So the next time someone calls me a shit
                                          head I can
                                          say......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ...(That' s
                                          SAINT shithead to you!!) :-)
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Jim
                                          To: watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                          Sent: 2009-08-06 10:08
                                          Subject: Re: [watkins] Weather

                                          I think climate change is due to power-boaters, us sailors are Saints.
                                          Jim
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: capbrian
                                          To: watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                          Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 8:40 AM
                                          Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather

                                          Hi, You keep missing the point.
                                          Re-read what you wrote :viz.
                                          >
                                          > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's
                                          climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately.
                                          *****

                                          and I am sure you will see it.

                                          " unusual patterns of weather " are evidence only of change; they are not
                                          "evidence that we humans have affected." anything.

                                          It might have been the Martians who affected it for all one can tell by
                                          "looking at the patterns "

                                          Back to Watkins then : a fine Welsh name and very prevalent where I was
                                          born. Probably refers to kinfolk of Wat Tyler - a good sound
                                          anti-establishment figure around here some years ago.

                                          Bryan

                                          --- On Wed, 8/5/09, martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@msn. com
                                          <mailto:jansea6815% 40msn.com> > wrote:

                                          From: martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@msn. com <mailto:jansea6815% 40msn.com> >
                                          Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather
                                          To: "watkins" <watkins@yahoogroups .com <mailto:watkins% 40yahoogroups. com> >
                                          Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 1:19 PM

                                          Don't want to keep the debate going too long just want to point out that
                                          you can do carbon dating of CO2 in the atmosphere the same way you do carbon
                                          dating of materials to find their date using c17. When scientists do that
                                          they reveal that most of the CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing at an
                                          increasing rate from the burning of hydro-carbon fuels -- coal, gas, oil,
                                          etc. Also fairly simple to measure the amount of CO2 and see that it has
                                          increased since man started burning these fuels in large amounts (since
                                          industrial age) as well as where it is going,e.g., absorbed in the oceans
                                          etc. When you do these tests you see there are statistically significant
                                          changes in the level of CO2 and other hydrocarbons in the atmosphere in the
                                          last 100 years with most of the changes taking place in the last 20-30
                                          years.

                                          Has it affected the weather -- that is a whole other argument and not as
                                          easy to prove because there are many factors that affect our weather. What
                                          is known is by looking at the earth's longer historical trends --back to ice
                                          ages etc, is that whatever caused the increases and decreases in the
                                          atmosphere composition back then resulted in significant affects on the
                                          earth's weather patterns -- generally atmosphere changes preceded the
                                          earth's climate affects by about 50-100 years. So for us old farts, we
                                          likely won't see much. However, without some changes in the current trends
                                          (regardless of the cause) our grand kids will see more dramatic climate
                                          changes that will affect availability of crop producing lands, clean water
                                          etc.

                                          Marty

                                          To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                          From: capbrian@yahoo. com
                                          Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:49:15 -0700
                                          Subject: [watkins] Weather

                                          I must have failed also. You claimed that the weather changes in
                                          themselves are proof that the changes were caused by mankind. it aint so;
                                          Weather changes can be caused by weather on the sun; there were weather
                                          changes before cavemen discovered fire.

                                          There may be _other_ evidence that man has caused changes but the
                                          existence of changes are not proof of what caused them.

                                          Have a nice sail; beware of sudden squalls which " prove " the mermaids
                                          caused them.

                                          Bryan - W30 for sale

                                          --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com> wrote:

                                          From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com>
                                          Subject: [watkins] Great Lakes OT: Weather
                                          To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                          Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:09 PM

                                          I think I didn't make myself clear Brian. I do not claim to be an expert
                                          on global weather. I do not know that wild temperature swings and a record
                                          cold summer but yet dry means anything special to the World. However the
                                          news from around the world does reflect the same kind of reports from lots
                                          of locations Northern and Southern hemispheres. I did try to say that
                                          "experts"(do they know what they are talking about???) can only agree that
                                          we will in for wilder weather due to the warming that has already happened.
                                          There is documentation of the warming. There is a huge multinational effort
                                          that has been monitoring the polar climates that report a 10 degree F change
                                          in temps(refer to the 2007 report from thousands of monitoring stations
                                          taken from 2000 to 2005, the third report in the series, next one due 2011
                                          to 2012) to support that humans may have had a hand in these changes then I
                                          would ask what you will take as evidence that humans have affected the
                                          world climate? Perhaps nothing will change your mind, yet a search on the
                                          internet will yield a number of confirming data sources from all around the
                                          world. Perhaps I have been hearing false reporting. maybe they are all
                                          making it up. But I have never worn my wool socks in summer before!

                                          --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, capbrian <capbrian@.. .> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > That is not evidence that "we humans" have affected the climate...merely
                                          that it has been different lately...
                                          >
                                          > let's not confuse the two things.
                                          >
                                          > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...>
                                          > Subject: [watkins] Re: S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                          > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                          > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:52 PM
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ****I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd
                                          cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the
                                          day. However down here in the Twin Cities we are in a drought with brown
                                          grass in what is usually very green MN.
                                          >
                                          > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's
                                          climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately.
                                          *****
                                          > As many "experts" said we will be in for wilder and stranger weather in
                                          the years to come.
                                          > Alan W.
                                          >
                                          > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "Paul Lapointe" <Lapoints@ .> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and
                                          about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                                          > > Paul L.
                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > From: jdmyers@
                                          > > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                          > > Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                                          > > Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ALL,
                                          > > An update from yesterdays post:
                                          > > We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                                          > > night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                                          > > sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we
                                          tacked
                                          > > back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                                          > > would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                                          > > a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                                          > > I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                                          > > yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                                          > > These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                                          > > carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                                          > > diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!
                                          > >
                                          > > I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                                          > > the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                                          > > winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                                          > > quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                                          > > still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.
                                          > >
                                          > > If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                                          > > Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                                          > > light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                                          > > 10 years.
                                          > >
                                          > > Fair Winds!!!!!
                                          > > John Myers
                                          > >

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                        • capbrian
                                          You should make up your mind   .;-)) ... From: Steve Butts Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather To: watkins@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 6
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Aug 6, 2009
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                                            You should make up your mind   .;-))

                                            --- On Thu, 6/8/09, Steve Butts <slb46@...> wrote:


                                            From: Steve Butts <slb46@...>
                                            Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather
                                            To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Thursday, 6 August, 2009, 6:33 PM


                                             



                                            What about those of us who own both?

                                            Steve B.

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: watkins@yahoogroups .com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups .com]On Behalf Of
                                            Paul Lapointe
                                            Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 1:16 PM
                                            To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                            Subject: Re: [watkins] Weather

                                            Must be so. Statistics show that 95% (BoatUS) of all boats registered in
                                            America are power boats. So if sailor are saints powerboaters must be
                                            sinners. That means sinners out number saints 9.5 to one. That is about the
                                            right ratio espoused by most Christian religions. Therefore Jim you
                                            statement is empirically proven. So the next time someone calls me a shit
                                            head I can
                                            say......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ...(That' s
                                            SAINT shithead to you!!) :-)
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Jim
                                            To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                            Sent: 2009-08-06 10:08
                                            Subject: Re: [watkins] Weather

                                            I think climate change is due to power-boaters, us sailors are Saints.
                                            Jim
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: capbrian
                                            To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                            Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 8:40 AM
                                            Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather

                                            Hi, You keep missing the point.
                                            Re-read what you wrote :viz.
                                            >
                                            > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's
                                            climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately.
                                            *****

                                            and I am sure you will see it.

                                            " unusual patterns of weather " are evidence only of change; they are not
                                            "evidence that we humans have affected." anything.

                                            It might have been the Martians who affected it for all one can tell by
                                            "looking at the patterns "

                                            Back to Watkins then : a fine Welsh name and very prevalent where I was
                                            born. Probably refers to kinfolk of Wat Tyler - a good sound
                                            anti-establishment figure around here some years ago.

                                            Bryan

                                            --- On Wed, 8/5/09, martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@msn. com> wrote:

                                            From: martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@msn. com>
                                            Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather
                                            To: "watkins" <watkins@yahoogroups .com>
                                            Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 1:19 PM

                                            Don't want to keep the debate going too long just want to point out that
                                            you can do carbon dating of CO2 in the atmosphere the same way you do carbon
                                            dating of materials to find their date using c17. When scientists do that
                                            they reveal that most of the CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing at an
                                            increasing rate from the burning of hydro-carbon fuels -- coal, gas, oil,
                                            etc. Also fairly simple to measure the amount of CO2 and see that it has
                                            increased since man started burning these fuels in large amounts (since
                                            industrial age) as well as where it is going,e.g., absorbed in the oceans
                                            etc. When you do these tests you see there are statistically significant
                                            changes in the level of CO2 and other hydrocarbons in the atmosphere in the
                                            last 100 years with most of the changes taking place in the last 20-30
                                            years.

                                            Has it affected the weather -- that is a whole other argument and not as
                                            easy to prove because there are many factors that affect our weather. What
                                            is known is by looking at the earth's longer historical trends --back to ice
                                            ages etc, is that whatever caused the increases and decreases in the
                                            atmosphere composition back then resulted in significant affects on the
                                            earth's weather patterns -- generally atmosphere changes preceded the
                                            earth's climate affects by about 50-100 years. So for us old farts, we
                                            likely won't see much. However, without some changes in the current trends
                                            (regardless of the cause) our grand kids will see more dramatic climate
                                            changes that will affect availability of crop producing lands, clean water
                                            etc.

                                            Marty

                                            To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                            From: capbrian@yahoo. com
                                            Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:49:15 -0700
                                            Subject: [watkins] Weather

                                            I must have failed also. You claimed that the weather changes in
                                            themselves are proof that the changes were caused by mankind. it aint so;
                                            Weather changes can be caused by weather on the sun; there were weather
                                            changes before cavemen discovered fire.

                                            There may be _other_ evidence that man has caused changes but the
                                            existence of changes are not proof of what caused them.

                                            Have a nice sail; beware of sudden squalls which " prove " the mermaids
                                            caused them.

                                            Bryan - W30 for sale

                                            --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com> wrote:

                                            From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com>
                                            Subject: [watkins] Great Lakes OT: Weather
                                            To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                            Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:09 PM

                                            I think I didn't make myself clear Brian. I do not claim to be an expert
                                            on global weather. I do not know that wild temperature swings and a record
                                            cold summer but yet dry means anything special to the World. However the
                                            news from around the world does reflect the same kind of reports from lots
                                            of locations Northern and Southern hemispheres. I did try to say that
                                            "experts"(do they know what they are talking about???) can only agree that
                                            we will in for wilder weather due to the warming that has already happened.
                                            There is documentation of the warming. There is a huge multinational effort
                                            that has been monitoring the polar climates that report a 10 degree F change
                                            in temps(refer to the 2007 report from thousands of monitoring stations
                                            taken from 2000 to 2005, the third report in the series, next one due 2011
                                            to 2012) to support that humans may have had a hand in these changes then I
                                            would ask what you will take as evidence that humans have affected the
                                            world climate? Perhaps nothing will change your mind, yet a search on the
                                            internet will yield a number of confirming data sources from all around the
                                            world. Perhaps I have been hearing false reporting. maybe they are all
                                            making it up. But I have never worn my wool socks in summer before!

                                            --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, capbrian <capbrian@.. .> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > That is not evidence that "we humans" have affected the climate...merely
                                            that it has been different lately...
                                            >
                                            > let's not confuse the two things.
                                            >
                                            > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...>
                                            > Subject: [watkins] Re: S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                            > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                            > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:52 PM
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ****I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd
                                            cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the
                                            day. However down here in the Twin Cities we are in a drought with brown
                                            grass in what is usually very green MN.
                                            >
                                            > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's
                                            climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately.
                                            *****
                                            > As many "experts" said we will be in for wilder and stranger weather in
                                            the years to come.
                                            > Alan W.
                                            >
                                            > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "Paul Lapointe" <Lapoints@ .> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and
                                            about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                                            > > Paul L.
                                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > From: jdmyers@
                                            > > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                            > > Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                                            > > Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ALL,
                                            > > An update from yesterdays post:
                                            > > We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                                            > > night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                                            > > sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we
                                            tacked
                                            > > back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                                            > > would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                                            > > a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                                            > > I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                                            > > yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                                            > > These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                                            > > carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                                            > > diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!
                                            > >
                                            > > I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                                            > > the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                                            > > winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                                            > > quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                                            > > still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.
                                            > >
                                            > > If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                                            > > Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                                            > > light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                                            > > 10 years.
                                            > >
                                            > > Fair Winds!!!!!
                                            > > John Myers
                                            > >

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                                            ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

                                            No virus found in this incoming message.
                                            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                            Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2285 - Release Date: 08/06/09
                                            05:57:00

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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Paul Lapointe
                                            Well Steve, I guess it would make you 95% sinner and 5% Saint. Of course if you don t go sailing and only use the sinner boat. that could change the equation.
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Aug 6, 2009
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                                              Well Steve, I guess it would make you 95% sinner and 5% Saint. Of course if you don't go sailing and only use the sinner boat. that could change the equation. Then again Billy Joel sang that he would "rather live with the sinners than die with the Saints. The Sinners are much more fun. And only the good die young." So Steve, in the final analysis, are you having More Fun, or being More good!!?? :-)
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Steve Butts
                                              To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: 2009-08-06 13:33
                                              Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather


                                              What about those of us who own both?

                                              Steve B.

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: watkins@yahoogroups.com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                                              Paul Lapointe
                                              Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 1:16 PM
                                              To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [watkins] Weather

                                              Must be so. Statistics show that 95% (BoatUS) of all boats registered in
                                              America are power boats. So if sailor are saints powerboaters must be
                                              sinners. That means sinners out number saints 9.5 to one. That is about the
                                              right ratio espoused by most Christian religions. Therefore Jim you
                                              statement is empirically proven. So the next time someone calls me a shit
                                              head I can
                                              say..................................................................(That's
                                              SAINT shithead to you!!) :-)
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Jim
                                              To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: 2009-08-06 10:08
                                              Subject: Re: [watkins] Weather

                                              I think climate change is due to power-boaters, us sailors are Saints.
                                              Jim
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: capbrian
                                              To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 8:40 AM
                                              Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather

                                              Hi, You keep missing the point.
                                              Re-read what you wrote :viz.
                                              >
                                              > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's
                                              climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately.
                                              *****

                                              and I am sure you will see it.

                                              " unusual patterns of weather " are evidence only of change; they are not
                                              "evidence that we humans have affected." anything.

                                              It might have been the Martians who affected it for all one can tell by
                                              "looking at the patterns "

                                              Back to Watkins then : a fine Welsh name and very prevalent where I was
                                              born. Probably refers to kinfolk of Wat Tyler - a good sound
                                              anti-establishment figure around here some years ago.

                                              Bryan

                                              --- On Wed, 8/5/09, martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@...> wrote:

                                              From: martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@...>
                                              Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather
                                              To: "watkins" <watkins@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 1:19 PM

                                              Don't want to keep the debate going too long just want to point out that
                                              you can do carbon dating of CO2 in the atmosphere the same way you do carbon
                                              dating of materials to find their date using c17. When scientists do that
                                              they reveal that most of the CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing at an
                                              increasing rate from the burning of hydro-carbon fuels -- coal, gas, oil,
                                              etc. Also fairly simple to measure the amount of CO2 and see that it has
                                              increased since man started burning these fuels in large amounts (since
                                              industrial age) as well as where it is going,e.g., absorbed in the oceans
                                              etc. When you do these tests you see there are statistically significant
                                              changes in the level of CO2 and other hydrocarbons in the atmosphere in the
                                              last 100 years with most of the changes taking place in the last 20-30
                                              years.

                                              Has it affected the weather -- that is a whole other argument and not as
                                              easy to prove because there are many factors that affect our weather. What
                                              is known is by looking at the earth's longer historical trends --back to ice
                                              ages etc, is that whatever caused the increases and decreases in the
                                              atmosphere composition back then resulted in significant affects on the
                                              earth's weather patterns -- generally atmosphere changes preceded the
                                              earth's climate affects by about 50-100 years. So for us old farts, we
                                              likely won't see much. However, without some changes in the current trends
                                              (regardless of the cause) our grand kids will see more dramatic climate
                                              changes that will affect availability of crop producing lands, clean water
                                              etc.

                                              Marty

                                              To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                              From: capbrian@yahoo. com
                                              Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:49:15 -0700
                                              Subject: [watkins] Weather

                                              I must have failed also. You claimed that the weather changes in
                                              themselves are proof that the changes were caused by mankind. it aint so;
                                              Weather changes can be caused by weather on the sun; there were weather
                                              changes before cavemen discovered fire.

                                              There may be _other_ evidence that man has caused changes but the
                                              existence of changes are not proof of what caused them.

                                              Have a nice sail; beware of sudden squalls which " prove " the mermaids
                                              caused them.

                                              Bryan - W30 for sale

                                              --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com> wrote:

                                              From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com>
                                              Subject: [watkins] Great Lakes OT: Weather
                                              To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                              Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:09 PM

                                              I think I didn't make myself clear Brian. I do not claim to be an expert
                                              on global weather. I do not know that wild temperature swings and a record
                                              cold summer but yet dry means anything special to the World. However the
                                              news from around the world does reflect the same kind of reports from lots
                                              of locations Northern and Southern hemispheres. I did try to say that
                                              "experts"(do they know what they are talking about???) can only agree that
                                              we will in for wilder weather due to the warming that has already happened.
                                              There is documentation of the warming. There is a huge multinational effort
                                              that has been monitoring the polar climates that report a 10 degree F change
                                              in temps(refer to the 2007 report from thousands of monitoring stations
                                              taken from 2000 to 2005, the third report in the series, next one due 2011
                                              to 2012) to support that humans may have had a hand in these changes then I
                                              would ask what you will take as evidence that humans have affected the
                                              world climate? Perhaps nothing will change your mind, yet a search on the
                                              internet will yield a number of confirming data sources from all around the
                                              world. Perhaps I have been hearing false reporting. maybe they are all
                                              making it up. But I have never worn my wool socks in summer before!

                                              --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, capbrian <capbrian@.. .> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > That is not evidence that "we humans" have affected the climate...merely
                                              that it has been different lately...
                                              >
                                              > let's not confuse the two things.
                                              >
                                              > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...>
                                              > Subject: [watkins] Re: S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                              > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                              > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:52 PM
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ****I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd
                                              cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the
                                              day. However down here in the Twin Cities we are in a drought with brown
                                              grass in what is usually very green MN.
                                              >
                                              > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's
                                              climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately.
                                              *****
                                              > As many "experts" said we will be in for wilder and stranger weather in
                                              the years to come.
                                              > Alan W.
                                              >
                                              > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "Paul Lapointe" <Lapoints@ .> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and
                                              about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                                              > > Paul L.
                                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > > From: jdmyers@
                                              > > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                              > > Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                                              > > Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > ALL,
                                              > > An update from yesterdays post:
                                              > > We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                                              > > night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                                              > > sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we
                                              tacked
                                              > > back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                                              > > would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                                              > > a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                                              > > I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                                              > > yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                                              > > These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                                              > > carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                                              > > diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!
                                              > >
                                              > > I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                                              > > the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                                              > > winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                                              > > quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                                              > > still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.
                                              > >
                                              > > If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                                              > > Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                                              > > light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                                              > > 10 years.
                                              > >
                                              > > Fair Winds!!!!!
                                              > > John Myers
                                              > >

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                              ----------------------------------------------------------

                                              No virus found in this incoming message.
                                              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                              Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.45/2285 - Release Date: 08/06/09
                                              05:57:00

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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Paul Lapointe
                                              Actually, most of the 5% sailors ARE power boat owners. Just look at the inflatable they are towing or carrying on davits. Plus many have a second boat which
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Aug 6, 2009
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                                                Actually, most of the 5% sailors ARE power boat owners. Just look at the inflatable they are towing or carrying on davits. Plus many have a second boat which is a power boat. Perhaps, just a small boat to go fishing in, but still a power boat. So I guess we are less saintly and more sinnerly (if that's a word). Then there is Kevin who is by nature pure sinnerly and therefore much more fun to be around. Having grown up in the catholic school system (6 years at all boys schools) I can tell you categorically that I always had a great big smile and lots of more fun on a power boat with sweet teenage girls in tight bikinis than middle age old broads in baggy pants and jackets sweating as they hauled on the sheets or anchor rode. :-) Maybe Billy Joel had it right. But then again those sweet young things have now turned into those pants wearing broads, and they now make me smile. I do believe the final proof is still in the song...."Only the Good Die Young!" and we all know that we are all a bunch of old goats, so we must not be good. Especially Conrad whom is the goatiest of all and is decades older than he looks and that is old as dirt. :-) Gee, is it warming up!? Must be the CO2 from my clunker for cash.
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: capbrian
                                                To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: 2009-08-06 14:08
                                                Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather


                                                You should make up your mind .;-))

                                                --- On Thu, 6/8/09, Steve Butts <slb46@...> wrote:

                                                From: Steve Butts <slb46@...>
                                                Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather
                                                To: watkins@yahoogroups.com
                                                Date: Thursday, 6 August, 2009, 6:33 PM



                                                What about those of us who own both?

                                                Steve B.

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: watkins@yahoogroups .com [mailto:watkins@yahoogroups .com]On Behalf Of
                                                Paul Lapointe
                                                Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 1:16 PM
                                                To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                                Subject: Re: [watkins] Weather

                                                Must be so. Statistics show that 95% (BoatUS) of all boats registered in
                                                America are power boats. So if sailor are saints powerboaters must be
                                                sinners. That means sinners out number saints 9.5 to one. That is about the
                                                right ratio espoused by most Christian religions. Therefore Jim you
                                                statement is empirically proven. So the next time someone calls me a shit
                                                head I can
                                                say......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ...(That' s
                                                SAINT shithead to you!!) :-)
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: Jim
                                                To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                                Sent: 2009-08-06 10:08
                                                Subject: Re: [watkins] Weather

                                                I think climate change is due to power-boaters, us sailors are Saints.
                                                Jim
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: capbrian
                                                To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                                Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 8:40 AM
                                                Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather

                                                Hi, You keep missing the point.
                                                Re-read what you wrote :viz.
                                                >
                                                > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's
                                                climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately.
                                                *****

                                                and I am sure you will see it.

                                                " unusual patterns of weather " are evidence only of change; they are not
                                                "evidence that we humans have affected." anything.

                                                It might have been the Martians who affected it for all one can tell by
                                                "looking at the patterns "

                                                Back to Watkins then : a fine Welsh name and very prevalent where I was
                                                born. Probably refers to kinfolk of Wat Tyler - a good sound
                                                anti-establishment figure around here some years ago.

                                                Bryan

                                                --- On Wed, 8/5/09, martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@msn. com> wrote:

                                                From: martin schoenbauer <jansea6815@msn. com>
                                                Subject: RE: [watkins] Weather
                                                To: "watkins" <watkins@yahoogroups .com>
                                                Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 1:19 PM

                                                Don't want to keep the debate going too long just want to point out that
                                                you can do carbon dating of CO2 in the atmosphere the same way you do carbon
                                                dating of materials to find their date using c17. When scientists do that
                                                they reveal that most of the CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing at an
                                                increasing rate from the burning of hydro-carbon fuels -- coal, gas, oil,
                                                etc. Also fairly simple to measure the amount of CO2 and see that it has
                                                increased since man started burning these fuels in large amounts (since
                                                industrial age) as well as where it is going,e.g., absorbed in the oceans
                                                etc. When you do these tests you see there are statistically significant
                                                changes in the level of CO2 and other hydrocarbons in the atmosphere in the
                                                last 100 years with most of the changes taking place in the last 20-30
                                                years.

                                                Has it affected the weather -- that is a whole other argument and not as
                                                easy to prove because there are many factors that affect our weather. What
                                                is known is by looking at the earth's longer historical trends --back to ice
                                                ages etc, is that whatever caused the increases and decreases in the
                                                atmosphere composition back then resulted in significant affects on the
                                                earth's weather patterns -- generally atmosphere changes preceded the
                                                earth's climate affects by about 50-100 years. So for us old farts, we
                                                likely won't see much. However, without some changes in the current trends
                                                (regardless of the cause) our grand kids will see more dramatic climate
                                                changes that will affect availability of crop producing lands, clean water
                                                etc.

                                                Marty

                                                To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                                From: capbrian@yahoo. com
                                                Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 02:49:15 -0700
                                                Subject: [watkins] Weather

                                                I must have failed also. You claimed that the weather changes in
                                                themselves are proof that the changes were caused by mankind. it aint so;
                                                Weather changes can be caused by weather on the sun; there were weather
                                                changes before cavemen discovered fire.

                                                There may be _other_ evidence that man has caused changes but the
                                                existence of changes are not proof of what caused them.

                                                Have a nice sail; beware of sudden squalls which " prove " the mermaids
                                                caused them.

                                                Bryan - W30 for sale

                                                --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com> wrote:

                                                From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ gmail.com>
                                                Subject: [watkins] Great Lakes OT: Weather
                                                To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                                Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:09 PM

                                                I think I didn't make myself clear Brian. I do not claim to be an expert
                                                on global weather. I do not know that wild temperature swings and a record
                                                cold summer but yet dry means anything special to the World. However the
                                                news from around the world does reflect the same kind of reports from lots
                                                of locations Northern and Southern hemispheres. I did try to say that
                                                "experts"(do they know what they are talking about???) can only agree that
                                                we will in for wilder weather due to the warming that has already happened.
                                                There is documentation of the warming. There is a huge multinational effort
                                                that has been monitoring the polar climates that report a 10 degree F change
                                                in temps(refer to the 2007 report from thousands of monitoring stations
                                                taken from 2000 to 2005, the third report in the series, next one due 2011
                                                to 2012) to support that humans may have had a hand in these changes then I
                                                would ask what you will take as evidence that humans have affected the
                                                world climate? Perhaps nothing will change your mind, yet a search on the
                                                internet will yield a number of confirming data sources from all around the
                                                world. Perhaps I have been hearing false reporting. maybe they are all
                                                making it up. But I have never worn my wool socks in summer before!

                                                --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, capbrian <capbrian@.. .> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > That is not evidence that "we humans" have affected the climate...merely
                                                that it has been different lately...
                                                >
                                                > let's not confuse the two things.
                                                >
                                                > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > From: Alan Wilson <alancwilson51@ ...>
                                                > Subject: [watkins] Re: S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                                > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                                > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:52 PM
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ****I live in the great lakes region and must say that it has been a odd
                                                cool summer at times setting record low temperatures for the highest of the
                                                day. However down here in the Twin Cities we are in a drought with brown
                                                grass in what is usually very green MN.
                                                >
                                                > *****IF a person needs evidence that we humans have affected the world's
                                                climate all one has to do is look at the unusual patterns of weather lately.
                                                *****
                                                > As many "experts" said we will be in for wilder and stranger weather in
                                                the years to come.
                                                > Alan W.
                                                >
                                                > --- In watkins@yahoogroups .com, "Paul Lapointe" <Lapoints@ .> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Our prayers and best wishes for moderate winds and settling seas; and
                                                about another 10 degrees of warmth.
                                                > > Paul L.
                                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > From: jdmyers@
                                                > > To: watkins@yahoogroups .com
                                                > > Sent: 2009-08-03 12:45
                                                > > Subject: RE: [watkins] S.ailing the Great Lakes
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > ALL,
                                                > > An update from yesterdays post:
                                                > > We made it safe into Caseville Michigan harbor at about 5;30 PM last
                                                > > night. The trip of 18 miles took 6 hours and the GPS trip log said we
                                                > > sailed about 24 miles. The wind and waves were on our nose so we
                                                tacked
                                                > > back and forth all day. The waves were 2-4 feet. Every few minutes we
                                                > > would take a wave that would soak the boat from stem to stern. We have
                                                > > a dodger and bimini. Water would run off the back of the bimini!
                                                > > I felt bad for the poor boat, I think we enlarged some stress cracks
                                                > > yesterday. The boat groaned and moaned as we wallowed in the Waves.
                                                > > These are tough boats so I was never worried about the rigging being
                                                > > carried away or any major failure. I was glad I had topped off my
                                                > > diesel tank other wise we might of sucked some air!
                                                > >
                                                > > I am writing this sitting in the saloon of Y KNOT as it is too cold in
                                                > > the cockpit. Currently it is drizzling, Temperature of 63 degrees,
                                                > > winds 15-20 Knots out of the south. The Caseville harbor is about a
                                                > > quarter mile up the Pigeon river behind a sand dune but the boat is
                                                > > still rocking at the slip and occasionally the rigging rattles.
                                                > >
                                                > > If the weather breaks in the next day or so we hope to sail out to
                                                > > Charity Island (10 miles out) and walk the beach and visit the abandon
                                                > > light house then return before dark. We have not been there for about
                                                > > 10 years.
                                                > >
                                                > > Fair Winds!!!!!
                                                > > John Myers
                                                > >

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                                              • rick_rew
                                                Snow in October. Who d a thunk it? Rick
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Oct 30, 2011
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                                                  Snow in October. Who'd a thunk it?

                                                  Rick
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