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Re: Location?

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  • Monica
    ... I m fairly sure this is posted for the more experienced Wiccans, but I am a novice and would love to chat with you and anyone else that would also like
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 1, 2004
      --- In washingtonwicca@yahoogroups.com, "Amy" <chyna_rose2003@y...>
      wrote:
      > Anyone in the Seattle, Tacoma area in here wanting to talk with a
      > novice?

      I'm fairly sure this is posted for the more "experienced" Wiccans,
      but I am a novice and would love to chat with you and anyone else
      that would also like to chat with me. My MSN/email is
      buffy_fan2003@.... I don't know much about Wicca, but it is
      interesting and appealing to me. I just wish I had more time to
      devote to studying. Also, I was watching a piece of an interview
      today on the Oprah show (I don't watch, but I did watch this part)
      with Sting. Sting was talking about religion and how the Latin root
      means to reconnect and reconnecting happens in many ways, not just
      going to some church or praying because you're told to pray. And on
      that note before I leave I have a theory regarding those annoying
      proselytizers. First of all I have a urge to tell them that if I go
      to their services they have to be a part of my human sacrifice. I
      know that sacrifice is not even close to what Wicca is and is a
      stigma that is placed on Wicca, but you know where I'm headed with
      that. Second of all when did they become judge, jury, and executioner
      for "God?" Like if your not in their religion your not saved. I mean
      look at the Reformation. Luther and the others were shunned and
      excommunicated and perceived as heretics because they went against
      the church at the time (along with the Pagans at the time-can't
      forget them!)and now Christianity has many ways to worship. So, I
      trust that Wicca and other pagan belief systems will be accepted
      better someday, I just don't know when.

      Blessed Be

      Monica
    • Tamoon Pearl
      I think we can all relate to having been nearly run over by a very pushy Christian at one time or another. My experience has repeatedly been that those who are
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 1, 2004
        I think we can all relate to having
        been nearly run over by a very pushy
        Christian at one time or another.
        My experience has repeatedly
        been that those who are the most
        adamant (about forcing their beliefs
        on others) typically walk around with
        many supressed insecurities about
        themselves and how they relate to
        their god.

        All of the pushy Christians I have met
        were recovering addicts of some sort
        or another -- drugs, sex or something
        else that they later felt guilty about.
        Once they found Christianity they not
        only turned it into their new addiction
        but were now trying to make up for
        such an "ungodly" past by being overly
        zealous for their new found faith.

        Realizing this . . . that the most pushy
        people on the planet tend to have some
        of the biggest problems . . . tends to
        make them seem much less threatening
        (except, we realize that these kind of
        people can actually become dangerous
        so try to keep a certain distance).

        I like to tell such people that I am not
        like a dog that returns to its vomit (because
        I had a Christian upbrining that was
        frightening enough to haunt anybody --
        and I can say I've happily recovered from
        THAT).

        Meanwhile, I don't believe it is ever a
        good policy to give anyone a false sense
        of who I am. I also remain truthful about
        the merits of my beliefs.

        While your hinting of human sacrifice
        to pushy and closed-minded fok sounds
        very funny (and I laughed out loud
        when I read it in the email) the joke
        could really and truly backfire.

        One of the things we really need in this
        country is for people to observe greater religious
        tolerance. More specifically, in this
        community we want to be recognized
        as law abiding citizens who have a legal
        right to worship freely.

        Anyone who performed human sacrifice
        would obviously be breaking the law
        and therefore would be treated as
        criminals. As criminals are not permitted
        to exercise certain freedoms -- it's
        probably best not to joke about doing
        such (criminal acts) when you want your
        beliefs to be taken seriously.

        Those are just my thoughts. Anybody
        who wants to expand upon that which I
        have written here is encouraged to
        do so.



        Monica <buffy_fan2003@...> wrote:--- In washingtonwicca@yahoogroups.com, "Amy" <chyna_rose2003@y...>
        wrote:
        > Anyone in the Seattle, Tacoma area in here wanting to talk with a
        > novice?

        I'm fairly sure this is posted for the more "experienced" Wiccans,
        but I am a novice and would love to chat with you and anyone else
        that would also like to chat with me. My MSN/email is
        buffy_fan2003@.... I don't know much about Wicca, but it is
        interesting and appealing to me. I just wish I had more time to
        devote to studying. Also, I was watching a piece of an interview
        today on the Oprah show (I don't watch, but I did watch this part)
        with Sting. Sting was talking about religion and how the Latin root
        means to reconnect and reconnecting happens in many ways, not just
        going to some church or praying because you're told to pray. And on
        that note before I leave I have a theory regarding those annoying
        proselytizers. First of all I have a urge to tell them that if I go
        to their services they have to be a part of my human sacrifice. I
        know that sacrifice is not even close to what Wicca is and is a
        stigma that is placed on Wicca, but you know where I'm headed with
        that. Second of all when did they become judge, jury, and executioner
        for "God?" Like if your not in their religion your not saved. I mean
        look at the Reformation. Luther and the others were shunned and
        excommunicated and perceived as heretics because they went against
        the church at the time (along with the Pagans at the time-can't
        forget them!)and now Christianity has many ways to worship. So, I
        trust that Wicca and other pagan belief systems will be accepted
        better someday, I just don't know when.

        Blessed Be

        Monica




        ---------------------------------
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Monica
        As for the sacrifice statement. I would never actually say that, nor do I believe that. Its a joke with me and a few people that I personally believe that.
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 2, 2004
          As for the sacrifice statement. I would never actually say that, nor
          do I believe that. Its a joke with me and a few people that I
          personally believe that. Sorry, I have a sarcastic sense of humour
          and it can be difficult at times to pinpoint those statements and
          whether or not I'll actually say them/believe them. :)

          Monica


          --- In washingtonwicca@yahoogroups.com, Tamoon Pearl
          <tamoonpearl@y...> wrote:
          > I think we can all relate to having
          > been nearly run over by a very pushy
          > Christian at one time or another.
          > My experience has repeatedly
          > been that those who are the most
          > adamant (about forcing their beliefs
          > on others) typically walk around with
          > many supressed insecurities about
          > themselves and how they relate to
          > their god.
          >
          > All of the pushy Christians I have met
          > were recovering addicts of some sort
          > or another -- drugs, sex or something
          > else that they later felt guilty about.
          > Once they found Christianity they not
          > only turned it into their new addiction
          > but were now trying to make up for
          > such an "ungodly" past by being overly
          > zealous for their new found faith.
          >
          > Realizing this . . . that the most pushy
          > people on the planet tend to have some
          > of the biggest problems . . . tends to
          > make them seem much less threatening
          > (except, we realize that these kind of
          > people can actually become dangerous
          > so try to keep a certain distance).
          >
          > I like to tell such people that I am not
          > like a dog that returns to its vomit (because
          > I had a Christian upbrining that was
          > frightening enough to haunt anybody --
          > and I can say I've happily recovered from
          > THAT).
          >
          > Meanwhile, I don't believe it is ever a
          > good policy to give anyone a false sense
          > of who I am. I also remain truthful about
          > the merits of my beliefs.
          >
          > While your hinting of human sacrifice
          > to pushy and closed-minded fok sounds
          > very funny (and I laughed out loud
          > when I read it in the email) the joke
          > could really and truly backfire.
          >
          > One of the things we really need in this
          > country is for people to observe greater religious
          > tolerance. More specifically, in this
          > community we want to be recognized
          > as law abiding citizens who have a legal
          > right to worship freely.
          >
          > Anyone who performed human sacrifice
          > would obviously be breaking the law
          > and therefore would be treated as
          > criminals. As criminals are not permitted
          > to exercise certain freedoms -- it's
          > probably best not to joke about doing
          > such (criminal acts) when you want your
          > beliefs to be taken seriously.
          >
          > Those are just my thoughts. Anybody
          > who wants to expand upon that which I
          > have written here is encouraged to
          > do so.
          >
          >
          >
          > Monica <buffy_fan2003@m...> wrote:--- In
          washingtonwicca@yahoogroups.com, "Amy" <chyna_rose2003@y...>
          > wrote:
          > > Anyone in the Seattle, Tacoma area in here wanting to talk with a
          > > novice?
          >
          > I'm fairly sure this is posted for the more "experienced" Wiccans,
          > but I am a novice and would love to chat with you and anyone else
          > that would also like to chat with me. My MSN/email is
          > buffy_fan2003@m... I don't know much about Wicca, but it is
          > interesting and appealing to me. I just wish I had more time to
          > devote to studying. Also, I was watching a piece of an interview
          > today on the Oprah show (I don't watch, but I did watch this part)
          > with Sting. Sting was talking about religion and how the Latin root
          > means to reconnect and reconnecting happens in many ways, not just
          > going to some church or praying because you're told to pray. And on
          > that note before I leave I have a theory regarding those annoying
          > proselytizers. First of all I have a urge to tell them that if I go
          > to their services they have to be a part of my human sacrifice. I
          > know that sacrifice is not even close to what Wicca is and is a
          > stigma that is placed on Wicca, but you know where I'm headed with
          > that. Second of all when did they become judge, jury, and
          executioner
          > for "God?" Like if your not in their religion your not saved. I
          mean
          > look at the Reformation. Luther and the others were shunned and
          > excommunicated and perceived as heretics because they went against
          > the church at the time (along with the Pagans at the time-can't
          > forget them!)and now Christianity has many ways to worship. So, I
          > trust that Wicca and other pagan belief systems will be accepted
          > better someday, I just don't know when.
          >
          > Blessed Be
          >
          > Monica
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/washingtonwicca/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > washingtonwicca-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Monica
          Sorry if I sounded like I would actually say something like that. I m really not that stupid. I got the proseletyzers to leave by telling them we went to a
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 2, 2004
            Sorry if I sounded like I would actually say something like that. I'm
            really not that stupid. I got the proseletyzers to leave by telling
            them we went to a church in Auburn. They never came back after
            leaving telling us "Well as long as you go to church." Yes, it was a
            lie...I was strapped for something to say because it was the 3rd time
            they had come...and we had several other people within 15 minutes
            come to our door. What is there a quota or something? Some sort of a
            contest? I wonder what the prize is for bringing in the most
            converts? :) Anyways, I have learned bits and pieces about Wicca,
            especially regarding the treatment by Christians, etc. and I would
            never actually make that sort of statement to a zealous Christian or
            anyone that I didn't know.


            --- In washingtonwicca@yahoogroups.com, Tamoon Pearl
            <tamoonpearl@y...> wrote:
            > I think we can all relate to having
            > been nearly run over by a very pushy
            > Christian at one time or another.
            > My experience has repeatedly
            > been that those who are the most
            > adamant (about forcing their beliefs
            > on others) typically walk around with
            > many supressed insecurities about
            > themselves and how they relate to
            > their god.
            >
            > All of the pushy Christians I have met
            > were recovering addicts of some sort
            > or another -- drugs, sex or something
            > else that they later felt guilty about.
            > Once they found Christianity they not
            > only turned it into their new addiction
            > but were now trying to make up for
            > such an "ungodly" past by being overly
            > zealous for their new found faith.
            >
            > Realizing this . . . that the most pushy
            > people on the planet tend to have some
            > of the biggest problems . . . tends to
            > make them seem much less threatening
            > (except, we realize that these kind of
            > people can actually become dangerous
            > so try to keep a certain distance).
            >
            > I like to tell such people that I am not
            > like a dog that returns to its vomit (because
            > I had a Christian upbrining that was
            > frightening enough to haunt anybody --
            > and I can say I've happily recovered from
            > THAT).
            >
            > Meanwhile, I don't believe it is ever a
            > good policy to give anyone a false sense
            > of who I am. I also remain truthful about
            > the merits of my beliefs.
            >
            > While your hinting of human sacrifice
            > to pushy and closed-minded fok sounds
            > very funny (and I laughed out loud
            > when I read it in the email) the joke
            > could really and truly backfire.
            >
            > One of the things we really need in this
            > country is for people to observe greater religious
            > tolerance. More specifically, in this
            > community we want to be recognized
            > as law abiding citizens who have a legal
            > right to worship freely.
            >
            > Anyone who performed human sacrifice
            > would obviously be breaking the law
            > and therefore would be treated as
            > criminals. As criminals are not permitted
            > to exercise certain freedoms -- it's
            > probably best not to joke about doing
            > such (criminal acts) when you want your
            > beliefs to be taken seriously.
            >
            > Those are just my thoughts. Anybody
            > who wants to expand upon that which I
            > have written here is encouraged to
            > do so.
            >
            >
            >
            > Monica <buffy_fan2003@m...> wrote:--- In
            washingtonwicca@yahoogroups.com, "Amy" <chyna_rose2003@y...>
            > wrote:
            > > Anyone in the Seattle, Tacoma area in here wanting to talk with a
            > > novice?
            >
            > I'm fairly sure this is posted for the more "experienced" Wiccans,
            > but I am a novice and would love to chat with you and anyone else
            > that would also like to chat with me. My MSN/email is
            > buffy_fan2003@m... I don't know much about Wicca, but it is
            > interesting and appealing to me. I just wish I had more time to
            > devote to studying. Also, I was watching a piece of an interview
            > today on the Oprah show (I don't watch, but I did watch this part)
            > with Sting. Sting was talking about religion and how the Latin root
            > means to reconnect and reconnecting happens in many ways, not just
            > going to some church or praying because you're told to pray. And on
            > that note before I leave I have a theory regarding those annoying
            > proselytizers. First of all I have a urge to tell them that if I go
            > to their services they have to be a part of my human sacrifice. I
            > know that sacrifice is not even close to what Wicca is and is a
            > stigma that is placed on Wicca, but you know where I'm headed with
            > that. Second of all when did they become judge, jury, and
            executioner
            > for "God?" Like if your not in their religion your not saved. I
            mean
            > look at the Reformation. Luther and the others were shunned and
            > excommunicated and perceived as heretics because they went against
            > the church at the time (along with the Pagans at the time-can't
            > forget them!)and now Christianity has many ways to worship. So, I
            > trust that Wicca and other pagan belief systems will be accepted
            > better someday, I just don't know when.
            >
            > Blessed Be
            >
            > Monica
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/washingtonwicca/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > washingtonwicca-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Monica
            Oh, and I am perfectly aware of the danger of making jokes like that in a society like our s. That s why I don t. Sorry if I m sounding snippy, I m not. It
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 2, 2004
              Oh, and I am perfectly aware of the danger of making jokes like that
              in a society like our's. That's why I don't. Sorry if I'm sounding
              snippy, I'm not. It just kind of hurts my feelings that people
              actually expect I would say/do something like that. So, unless I say
              I did something/said something or unless I ask a question...its most
              likely a forum type question. Some type of question/thought that's on
              my mind at the time.



              --- In washingtonwicca@yahoogroups.com, "Monica" <buffy_fan2003@m...>
              wrote:
              > Sorry if I sounded like I would actually say something like that.
              I'm
              > really not that stupid. I got the proseletyzers to leave by telling
              > them we went to a church in Auburn. They never came back after
              > leaving telling us "Well as long as you go to church." Yes, it was
              a
              > lie...I was strapped for something to say because it was the 3rd
              time
              > they had come...and we had several other people within 15 minutes
              > come to our door. What is there a quota or something? Some sort of
              a
              > contest? I wonder what the prize is for bringing in the most
              > converts? :) Anyways, I have learned bits and pieces about Wicca,
              > especially regarding the treatment by Christians, etc. and I would
              > never actually make that sort of statement to a zealous Christian
              or
              > anyone that I didn't know.
              >
              >
              > --- In washingtonwicca@yahoogroups.com, Tamoon Pearl
              > <tamoonpearl@y...> wrote:
              > > I think we can all relate to having
              > > been nearly run over by a very pushy
              > > Christian at one time or another.
              > > My experience has repeatedly
              > > been that those who are the most
              > > adamant (about forcing their beliefs
              > > on others) typically walk around with
              > > many supressed insecurities about
              > > themselves and how they relate to
              > > their god.
              > >
              > > All of the pushy Christians I have met
              > > were recovering addicts of some sort
              > > or another -- drugs, sex or something
              > > else that they later felt guilty about.
              > > Once they found Christianity they not
              > > only turned it into their new addiction
              > > but were now trying to make up for
              > > such an "ungodly" past by being overly
              > > zealous for their new found faith.
              > >
              > > Realizing this . . . that the most pushy
              > > people on the planet tend to have some
              > > of the biggest problems . . . tends to
              > > make them seem much less threatening
              > > (except, we realize that these kind of
              > > people can actually become dangerous
              > > so try to keep a certain distance).
              > >
              > > I like to tell such people that I am not
              > > like a dog that returns to its vomit (because
              > > I had a Christian upbrining that was
              > > frightening enough to haunt anybody --
              > > and I can say I've happily recovered from
              > > THAT).
              > >
              > > Meanwhile, I don't believe it is ever a
              > > good policy to give anyone a false sense
              > > of who I am. I also remain truthful about
              > > the merits of my beliefs.
              > >
              > > While your hinting of human sacrifice
              > > to pushy and closed-minded fok sounds
              > > very funny (and I laughed out loud
              > > when I read it in the email) the joke
              > > could really and truly backfire.
              > >
              > > One of the things we really need in this
              > > country is for people to observe greater religious
              > > tolerance. More specifically, in this
              > > community we want to be recognized
              > > as law abiding citizens who have a legal
              > > right to worship freely.
              > >
              > > Anyone who performed human sacrifice
              > > would obviously be breaking the law
              > > and therefore would be treated as
              > > criminals. As criminals are not permitted
              > > to exercise certain freedoms -- it's
              > > probably best not to joke about doing
              > > such (criminal acts) when you want your
              > > beliefs to be taken seriously.
              > >
              > > Those are just my thoughts. Anybody
              > > who wants to expand upon that which I
              > > have written here is encouraged to
              > > do so.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Monica <buffy_fan2003@m...> wrote:--- In
              > washingtonwicca@yahoogroups.com, "Amy" <chyna_rose2003@y...>
              > > wrote:
              > > > Anyone in the Seattle, Tacoma area in here wanting to talk with
              a
              > > > novice?
              > >
              > > I'm fairly sure this is posted for the more "experienced"
              Wiccans,
              > > but I am a novice and would love to chat with you and anyone else
              > > that would also like to chat with me. My MSN/email is
              > > buffy_fan2003@m... I don't know much about Wicca, but it is
              > > interesting and appealing to me. I just wish I had more time to
              > > devote to studying. Also, I was watching a piece of an interview
              > > today on the Oprah show (I don't watch, but I did watch this part)
              > > with Sting. Sting was talking about religion and how the Latin
              root
              > > means to reconnect and reconnecting happens in many ways, not
              just
              > > going to some church or praying because you're told to pray. And
              on
              > > that note before I leave I have a theory regarding those annoying
              > > proselytizers. First of all I have a urge to tell them that if I
              go
              > > to their services they have to be a part of my human sacrifice. I
              > > know that sacrifice is not even close to what Wicca is and is a
              > > stigma that is placed on Wicca, but you know where I'm headed
              with
              > > that. Second of all when did they become judge, jury, and
              > executioner
              > > for "God?" Like if your not in their religion your not saved. I
              > mean
              > > look at the Reformation. Luther and the others were shunned and
              > > excommunicated and perceived as heretics because they went
              against
              > > the church at the time (along with the Pagans at the time-can't
              > > forget them!)and now Christianity has many ways to worship. So, I
              > > trust that Wicca and other pagan belief systems will be accepted
              > > better someday, I just don't know when.
              > >
              > > Blessed Be
              > >
              > > Monica
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/washingtonwicca/
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > washingtonwicca-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Do you Yahoo!?
              > > Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Tamoon Pearl
              No need to apologize. Again, I LAUGHED to think someone might say something like that. I think of all sorts of outrageous things to say to control freaks like
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 2, 2004
                No need to apologize. Again, I LAUGHED
                to think someone might say something
                like that. I think of all sorts of outrageous
                things to say to control freaks like the
                Christians we mentioned. They can be
                more than just very annoying at times
                (and often deserve to be shaken out of
                their lethargic state of ignorant being.)

                It's good that you shared your thoughts.
                Your frustration has been felt (and probably
                will reverberate for many years to come)
                by many. Hopefully, one day, these
                poor souls who go about seeking whom
                they may convert will themselves experience
                freedom in religion and realize why it is
                not good to be pushy with others.

                We're all learning, by the way. No matter
                how new or experienced you are in the
                craft. We're all growing . . . else not
                practicing.





                Monica <buffy_fan2003@...> wrote:
                Sorry if I sounded like I would actually say something like that. I'm
                really not that stupid. I got the proseletyzers to leave by telling
                them we went to a church in Auburn. They never came back after
                leaving telling us "Well as long as you go to church." Yes, it was a
                lie...I was strapped for something to say because it was the 3rd time
                they had come...and we had several other people within 15 minutes
                come to our door. What is there a quota or something? Some sort of a
                contest? I wonder what the prize is for bringing in the most
                converts? :) Anyways, I have learned bits and pieces about Wicca,
                especially regarding the treatment by Christians, etc. and I would
                never actually make that sort of statement to a zealous Christian or
                anyone that I didn't know.


                --- In washingtonwicca@yahoogroups.com, Tamoon Pearl
                <tamoonpearl@y...> wrote:
                > I think we can all relate to having
                > been nearly run over by a very pushy
                > Christian at one time or another.
                > My experience has repeatedly
                > been that those who are the most
                > adamant (about forcing their beliefs
                > on others) typically walk around with
                > many supressed insecurities about
                > themselves and how they relate to
                > their god.
                >
                > All of the pushy Christians I have met
                > were recovering addicts of some sort
                > or another -- drugs, sex or something
                > else that they later felt guilty about.
                > Once they found Christianity they not
                > only turned it into their new addiction
                > but were now trying to make up for
                > such an "ungodly" past by being overly
                > zealous for their new found faith.
                >
                > Realizing this . . . that the most pushy
                > people on the planet tend to have some
                > of the biggest problems . . . tends to
                > make them seem much less threatening
                > (except, we realize that these kind of
                > people can actually become dangerous
                > so try to keep a certain distance).
                >
                > I like to tell such people that I am not
                > like a dog that returns to its vomit (because
                > I had a Christian upbrining that was
                > frightening enough to haunt anybody --
                > and I can say I've happily recovered from
                > THAT).
                >
                > Meanwhile, I don't believe it is ever a
                > good policy to give anyone a false sense
                > of who I am. I also remain truthful about
                > the merits of my beliefs.
                >
                > While your hinting of human sacrifice
                > to pushy and closed-minded fok sounds
                > very funny (and I laughed out loud
                > when I read it in the email) the joke
                > could really and truly backfire.
                >
                > One of the things we really need in this
                > country is for people to observe greater religious
                > tolerance. More specifically, in this
                > community we want to be recognized
                > as law abiding citizens who have a legal
                > right to worship freely.
                >
                > Anyone who performed human sacrifice
                > would obviously be breaking the law
                > and therefore would be treated as
                > criminals. As criminals are not permitted
                > to exercise certain freedoms -- it's
                > probably best not to joke about doing
                > such (criminal acts) when you want your
                > beliefs to be taken seriously.
                >
                > Those are just my thoughts. Anybody
                > who wants to expand upon that which I
                > have written here is encouraged to
                > do so.
                >
                >
                >
                > Monica <buffy_fan2003@m...> wrote:--- In
                washingtonwicca@yahoogroups.com, "Amy" <chyna_rose2003@y...>
                > wrote:
                > > Anyone in the Seattle, Tacoma area in here wanting to talk with a
                > > novice?
                >
                > I'm fairly sure this is posted for the more "experienced" Wiccans,
                > but I am a novice and would love to chat with you and anyone else
                > that would also like to chat with me. My MSN/email is
                > buffy_fan2003@m... I don't know much about Wicca, but it is
                > interesting and appealing to me. I just wish I had more time to
                > devote to studying. Also, I was watching a piece of an interview
                > today on the Oprah show (I don't watch, but I did watch this part)
                > with Sting. Sting was talking about religion and how the Latin root
                > means to reconnect and reconnecting happens in many ways, not just
                > going to some church or praying because you're told to pray. And on
                > that note before I leave I have a theory regarding those annoying
                > proselytizers. First of all I have a urge to tell them that if I go
                > to their services they have to be a part of my human sacrifice. I
                > know that sacrifice is not even close to what Wicca is and is a
                > stigma that is placed on Wicca, but you know where I'm headed with
                > that. Second of all when did they become judge, jury, and
                executioner
                > for "God?" Like if your not in their religion your not saved. I
                mean
                > look at the Reformation. Luther and the others were shunned and
                > excommunicated and perceived as heretics because they went against
                > the church at the time (along with the Pagans at the time-can't
                > forget them!)and now Christianity has many ways to worship. So, I
                > trust that Wicca and other pagan belief systems will be accepted
                > better someday, I just don't know when.
                >
                > Blessed Be
                >
                > Monica
                >
                >
                >
                >
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                >
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              • Ravenna Angelline
                Okay then. First things first, I am located in Maple Valley. Enjoying the snow everyone? Heh. Now then. As for dealing with those misguided individuals who
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 3, 2004
                  Okay then. First things first, I am located in Maple Valley.
                  Enjoying the snow everyone? Heh.

                  Now then. As for dealing with those misguided individuals who want to
                  save our poor tortured souls (massive use of sarcasm intended here).
                  Believe me, I've had to face some very adamant individuals before
                  (the most annoying were the Jehovah's Witnesses), and most of the
                  time I can just explain that I am very happy with my current religion
                  and not interested in what their particular brand has to offer.
                  Once, I invited the Jehovah Witnesses in my home and had a lovely
                  chat with them, at the end of which I was more informed about what
                  they believe in, and capable of explaining to them in their own terms
                  why I didn't want to participate in their religion. I recommend this
                  highly, because most of the time they are very understanding people.
                  Unfortunately, it doesn't always work this way, and I've been forced
                  to slam the door on such people after yelling "No! I happen to *like*
                  my holidays and birthdays thank you very much, we don't appreciate
                  the whole door to door religious sales thing, and why don't you go
                  read my bumper sticker?!" (Dear Lord, Save me from your followers),
                  which is much more effective, though rude.

                  Mormons aren't nearly as bad, and I've had really awesome
                  philosophical conversations with them about religion, and most of the
                  time just an explanation that I do have a very good religion that is
                  life affirming is enough for them. Ahh, but such is the way of
                  things.

                  Don't feel bad because you really get that urge to tell them off or
                  that you would sacrifice them, believe me, been there done that.
                  It's funny. It just depends on you, the person selling their
                  religion. We've had great Rob Zombie rock sessions on the guitars
                  with some of the Mormons (shocked?) so just remember that these
                  people are having to use a great deal of courage just to go up to
                  complete strangers and knock on their door. They genuinely believe
                  in their religion, and feel good about it, and just want to share
                  that good feeling with others.

                  All right, off my soap box of tolerance. Have a fun day in the snow
                  all.

                  Ravenna Angelline
                • brad riddle
                  This is first time that I ve written an email to everyone. I Know exactally what everyone is talking about. I m in the Navy and that is where I ve
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 3, 2004
                    This is first time that I've written an email to everyone. I Know exactally what everyone is talking about. I'm in the Navy and that is where I've expierenced most of the discrimination at. Being in a closed enviroment like a ship our group there has learned how to deal with this particular issue. We have delt with everything from the Catholic chaplin coming in and trying to kick us out to people asking God for forgivness for, i believe the wording was, "the satanic whorship" that was going to be commited in that room. We where fortunate enough though to have a supportive Chaplin that helped resolve these problems. We also didn't only expierence discrimination by using the chapel onboard, but we did have huge problems with getting people to let us go to our "church services." So if anyone needs any advice for dealing with discrimination feel free to email me. The group we have onboard has probably dealt with it all.

                    Brad

                    Ravenna Angelline <ravennan@...> wrote:
                    Okay then. First things first, I am located in Maple Valley.
                    Enjoying the snow everyone? Heh.

                    Now then. As for dealing with those misguided individuals who want to
                    save our poor tortured souls (massive use of sarcasm intended here).
                    Believe me, I've had to face some very adamant individuals before
                    (the most annoying were the Jehovah's Witnesses), and most of the
                    time I can just explain that I am very happy with my current religion
                    and not interested in what their particular brand has to offer.
                    Once, I invited the Jehovah Witnesses in my home and had a lovely
                    chat with them, at the end of which I was more informed about what
                    they believe in, and capable of explaining to them in their own terms
                    why I didn't want to participate in their religion. I recommend this
                    highly, because most of the time they are very understanding people.
                    Unfortunately, it doesn't always work this way, and I've been forced
                    to slam the door on such people after yelling "No! I happen to *like*
                    my holidays and birthdays thank you very much, we don't appreciate
                    the whole door to door religious sales thing, and why don't you go
                    read my bumper sticker?!" (Dear Lord, Save me from your followers),
                    which is much more effective, though rude.

                    Mormons aren't nearly as bad, and I've had really awesome
                    philosophical conversations with them about religion, and most of the
                    time just an explanation that I do have a very good religion that is
                    life affirming is enough for them. Ahh, but such is the way of
                    things.

                    Don't feel bad because you really get that urge to tell them off or
                    that you would sacrifice them, believe me, been there done that.
                    It's funny. It just depends on you, the person selling their
                    religion. We've had great Rob Zombie rock sessions on the guitars
                    with some of the Mormons (shocked?) so just remember that these
                    people are having to use a great deal of courage just to go up to
                    complete strangers and knock on their door. They genuinely believe
                    in their religion, and feel good about it, and just want to share
                    that good feeling with others.

                    All right, off my soap box of tolerance. Have a fun day in the snow
                    all.

                    Ravenna Angelline



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                  • Tamoon Pearl
                    No kidding? The Catholic chaplain tried kicking you out? Sheesh . . . why does that surprise me? (Thinking of how the early church put anyone who was not Xian
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 3, 2004
                      No kidding? The Catholic chaplain tried kicking you out?
                      Sheesh . . . why does that surprise me? (Thinking of how
                      the early church put anyone who was not Xian to death.)

                      brad riddle <drevil9129@...> wrote:
                      This is first time that I've written an email to everyone. I Know exactally what everyone is talking about. I'm in the Navy and that is where I've expierenced most of the discrimination at. Being in a closed enviroment like a ship our group there has learned how to deal with this particular issue. We have delt with everything from the Catholic chaplin coming in and trying to kick us out to people asking God for forgivness for, i believe the wording was, "the satanic whorship" that was going to be commited in that room. We where fortunate enough though to have a supportive Chaplin that helped resolve these problems. We also didn't only expierence discrimination by using the chapel onboard, but we did have huge problems with getting people to let us go to our "church services." So if anyone needs any advice for dealing with discrimination feel free to email me. The group we have onboard has probably dealt with it all.

                      Brad

                      Ravenna Angelline <ravennan@...> wrote:
                      Okay then. First things first, I am located in Maple Valley.
                      Enjoying the snow everyone? Heh.

                      Now then. As for dealing with those misguided individuals who want to
                      save our poor tortured souls (massive use of sarcasm intended here).
                      Believe me, I've had to face some very adamant individuals before
                      (the most annoying were the Jehovah's Witnesses), and most of the
                      time I can just explain that I am very happy with my current religion
                      and not interested in what their particular brand has to offer.
                      Once, I invited the Jehovah Witnesses in my home and had a lovely
                      chat with them, at the end of which I was more informed about what
                      they believe in, and capable of explaining to them in their own terms
                      why I didn't want to participate in their religion. I recommend this
                      highly, because most of the time they are very understanding people.
                      Unfortunately, it doesn't always work this way, and I've been forced
                      to slam the door on such people after yelling "No! I happen to *like*
                      my holidays and birthdays thank you very much, we don't appreciate
                      the whole door to door religious sales thing, and why don't you go
                      read my bumper sticker?!" (Dear Lord, Save me from your followers),
                      which is much more effective, though rude.

                      Mormons aren't nearly as bad, and I've had really awesome
                      philosophical conversations with them about religion, and most of the
                      time just an explanation that I do have a very good religion that is
                      life affirming is enough for them. Ahh, but such is the way of
                      things.

                      Don't feel bad because you really get that urge to tell them off or
                      that you would sacrifice them, believe me, been there done that.
                      It's funny. It just depends on you, the person selling their
                      religion. We've had great Rob Zombie rock sessions on the guitars
                      with some of the Mormons (shocked?) so just remember that these
                      people are having to use a great deal of courage just to go up to
                      complete strangers and knock on their door. They genuinely believe
                      in their religion, and feel good about it, and just want to share
                      that good feeling with others.

                      All right, off my soap box of tolerance. Have a fun day in the snow
                      all.

                      Ravenna Angelline



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                    • Tamoon Pearl
                      Please don t feel hurt, Monica. The bad thing about email is we cannot hear intonation (else you d know how very much your emails are appreciated -- because
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 6, 2004
                        Please don't feel hurt, Monica. The bad
                        thing about email is we cannot hear
                        intonation (else you'd know how very much
                        your emails are appreciated -- because
                        they are).

                        I don't think anybody was thinking ill
                        towards your message. After all, this
                        here is just a forum for sharing ideas,
                        support, etc. I'm sorry if you felt
                        at dis-ease in any way -- or felt
                        as though someone was questioning
                        anything other than just a given
                        idea.

                        Not everybody here knows everybody else.
                        That's why . . . when any of us communicate . . .
                        we try to state when we are joking or not
                        (so others, who don't know us well, will
                        fully understand exactly what we are saying).

                        Blessed be

                        Monica <buffy_fan2003@...> wrote:
                        Oh, and I am perfectly aware of the danger of making jokes like that
                        in a society like our's. That's why I don't. Sorry if I'm sounding
                        snippy, I'm not. It just kind of hurts my feelings that people
                        actually expect I would say/do something like that. So, unless I say
                        I did something/said something or unless I ask a question...its most
                        likely a forum type question. Some type of question/thought that's on
                        my mind at the time.



                        --- In washingtonwicca@yahoogroups.com, "Monica" <buffy_fan2003@m...>
                        wrote:
                        > Sorry if I sounded like I would actually say something like that.
                        I'm
                        > really not that stupid. I got the proseletyzers to leave by telling
                        > them we went to a church in Auburn. They never came back after
                        > leaving telling us "Well as long as you go to church." Yes, it was
                        a
                        > lie...I was strapped for something to say because it was the 3rd
                        time
                        > they had come...and we had several other people within 15 minutes
                        > come to our door. What is there a quota or something? Some sort of
                        a
                        > contest? I wonder what the prize is for bringing in the most
                        > converts? :) Anyways, I have learned bits and pieces about Wicca,
                        > especially regarding the treatment by Christians, etc. and I would
                        > never actually make that sort of statement to a zealous Christian
                        or
                        > anyone that I didn't know.
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In washingtonwicca@yahoogroups.com, Tamoon Pearl
                        > <tamoonpearl@y...> wrote:
                        > > I think we can all relate to having
                        > > been nearly run over by a very pushy
                        > > Christian at one time or another.
                        > > My experience has repeatedly
                        > > been that those who are the most
                        > > adamant (about forcing their beliefs
                        > > on others) typically walk around with
                        > > many supressed insecurities about
                        > > themselves and how they relate to
                        > > their god.
                        > >
                        > > All of the pushy Christians I have met
                        > > were recovering addicts of some sort
                        > > or another -- drugs, sex or something
                        > > else that they later felt guilty about.
                        > > Once they found Christianity they not
                        > > only turned it into their new addiction
                        > > but were now trying to make up for
                        > > such an "ungodly" past by being overly
                        > > zealous for their new found faith.
                        > >
                        > > Realizing this . . . that the most pushy
                        > > people on the planet tend to have some
                        > > of the biggest problems . . . tends to
                        > > make them seem much less threatening
                        > > (except, we realize that these kind of
                        > > people can actually become dangerous
                        > > so try to keep a certain distance).
                        > >
                        > > I like to tell such people that I am not
                        > > like a dog that returns to its vomit (because
                        > > I had a Christian upbrining that was
                        > > frightening enough to haunt anybody --
                        > > and I can say I've happily recovered from
                        > > THAT).
                        > >
                        > > Meanwhile, I don't believe it is ever a
                        > > good policy to give anyone a false sense
                        > > of who I am. I also remain truthful about
                        > > the merits of my beliefs.
                        > >
                        > > While your hinting of human sacrifice
                        > > to pushy and closed-minded fok sounds
                        > > very funny (and I laughed out loud
                        > > when I read it in the email) the joke
                        > > could really and truly backfire.
                        > >
                        > > One of the things we really need in this
                        > > country is for people to observe greater religious
                        > > tolerance. More specifically, in this
                        > > community we want to be recognized
                        > > as law abiding citizens who have a legal
                        > > right to worship freely.
                        > >
                        > > Anyone who performed human sacrifice
                        > > would obviously be breaking the law
                        > > and therefore would be treated as
                        > > criminals. As criminals are not permitted
                        > > to exercise certain freedoms -- it's
                        > > probably best not to joke about doing
                        > > such (criminal acts) when you want your
                        > > beliefs to be taken seriously.
                        > >
                        > > Those are just my thoughts. Anybody
                        > > who wants to expand upon that which I
                        > > have written here is encouraged to
                        > > do so.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Monica <buffy_fan2003@m...> wrote:--- In
                        > washingtonwicca@yahoogroups.com, "Amy" <chyna_rose2003@y...>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > > Anyone in the Seattle, Tacoma area in here wanting to talk with
                        a
                        > > > novice?
                        > >
                        > > I'm fairly sure this is posted for the more "experienced"
                        Wiccans,
                        > > but I am a novice and would love to chat with you and anyone else
                        > > that would also like to chat with me. My MSN/email is
                        > > buffy_fan2003@m... I don't know much about Wicca, but it is
                        > > interesting and appealing to me. I just wish I had more time to
                        > > devote to studying. Also, I was watching a piece of an interview
                        > > today on the Oprah show (I don't watch, but I did watch this part)
                        > > with Sting. Sting was talking about religion and how the Latin
                        root
                        > > means to reconnect and reconnecting happens in many ways, not
                        just
                        > > going to some church or praying because you're told to pray. And
                        on
                        > > that note before I leave I have a theory regarding those annoying
                        > > proselytizers. First of all I have a urge to tell them that if I
                        go
                        > > to their services they have to be a part of my human sacrifice. I
                        > > know that sacrifice is not even close to what Wicca is and is a
                        > > stigma that is placed on Wicca, but you know where I'm headed
                        with
                        > > that. Second of all when did they become judge, jury, and
                        > executioner
                        > > for "God?" Like if your not in their religion your not saved. I
                        > mean
                        > > look at the Reformation. Luther and the others were shunned and
                        > > excommunicated and perceived as heretics because they went
                        against
                        > > the church at the time (along with the Pagans at the time-can't
                        > > forget them!)and now Christianity has many ways to worship. So, I
                        > > trust that Wicca and other pagan belief systems will be accepted
                        > > better someday, I just don't know when.
                        > >
                        > > Blessed Be
                        > >
                        > > Monica
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ---------------------------------
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/washingtonwicca/
                        > >
                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > washingtonwicca-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                        > Service.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
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                        > >
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