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Re: [walesdna] Re: My welsh Y DNA??

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  • David Davies
    Thanks Michael--that is what I thought, I will join the R-L21* list ..and  Doug--I can t sing worth a nickel...   Dave Davies ... From: Michael Walsh
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 1, 2009
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      Thanks Michael--that is what I thought, I will join the R-L21* list
      ..and  Doug--I can't sing worth a nickel...
       
      Dave Davies

      --- On Sat, 10/31/09, Michael Walsh <mwwalsh7@...> wrote:

      From: Michael Walsh <mwwalsh7@...>
      Subject: [walesdna] Re: My welsh Y DNA??
      To: walesdna@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, October 31, 2009, 10:20 AM

       
      You are Welsh because you know you are Welsh.

      Are your Y DNA results typical of a Welshman? Yes, R-L21* (R1b1b2a1b5) is very common among Welsh folks, but R-L21* is not exclusive to Welsh people by a long shot.

      What were your ancestors before they became known in the historic period as Welshmen? I don't know but that is an interesting question. I would assign you to what I call the R-L21-1211 group which does include other Welshmen, but a couple of Germans as well!

      To compare yourself with other R-L21* (R1b1b2alb5) folks, please join this.
      http://www.familytr eedna.com/ group-join- request.aspx? group=R-L21Plus

      The spreadsheet results and assigngments of the RL21Plus group are posted at http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ RL21Project/
      You can join and turn on the "web only" membership option if you don't want the emails.

      Regards, Mike

      --- In walesdna@yahoogroup s.com, David Davies <felinfoel71@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > Just got my Y deep clade tests back ( Kit ID 69252), not sure what it all means to be honest, but I do know that as far back as I can search ( about 1780) I am as "pure" a welshman as you can get. In fact every person in my entire heritage comes from� carmarthenshire!
      > My data shows me R1b1b2a1b5
      >
      >
      >
      > �
      >
      > L1- L21+ L23+ L49+ M126- M153- M160- M173+ M18- M207+ M222- M269+ M343+ M37- M65- M73- P25+ P310+ P311+ P312+ P66- SRY2627- U106- U152-
      > �
      > Is this typical of welsh?
      > �
      > Dave Davies
      >

    • harold.dicks
      Hi David--I m a member of the 17 14 10 Welsh modal hosted by Robert Hughes and we appear to have the same results. If you aren t presently a member of the
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 7, 2009
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        Hi David--I'm a member of the 17 14 10 Welsh modal hosted by Robert Hughes and we appear to have the same results. If you aren't presently a member of the group, perhaps you's like to contact Robert and join. If you don't have his e-mail address, I do. Harold

        --- In walesdna@yahoogroups.com, David Davies <felinfoel71@...> wrote:
        >
        > Just got my Y deep clade tests back ( Kit ID 69252), not sure what it all means to be honest, but I do know that as far back as I can search ( about 1780) I am as "pure" a welshman as you can get. In fact every person in my entire heritage comes from  carmarthenshire!
        > My data shows me R1b1b2a1b5
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        > L1- L21+ L23+ L49+ M126- M153- M160- M173+ M18- M207+ M222- M269+ M343+ M37- M65- M73- P25+ P310+ P311+ P312+ P66- SRY2627- U106- U152-
        >  
        > Is this typical of welsh?
        >  
        > Dave Davies
        >
      • David Davies
        Thanks Harold, no I am not a member of the Robert Hughes group, if you have his email address that would be helpful   Dave Davies ... From: harold.dicks
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 7, 2009
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          Thanks Harold, no I am not a member of the Robert Hughes group, if you have his email address that would be helpful
           
          Dave Davies

          --- On Sat, 11/7/09, harold.dicks <haroldjdicks@...> wrote:

          From: harold.dicks <haroldjdicks@...>
          Subject: [walesdna] Re: My welsh Y DNA??
          To: walesdna@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 8:12 AM

           
          Hi David--I'm a member of the 17 14 10 Welsh modal hosted by Robert Hughes and we appear to have the same results. If you aren't presently a member of the group, perhaps you's like to contact Robert and join. If you don't have his e-mail address, I do. Harold

          --- In walesdna@yahoogroup s.com, David Davies <felinfoel71@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > Just got my Y deep clade tests back ( Kit ID 69252), not sure what it all means to be honest, but I do know that as far back as I can search ( about 1780) I am as "pure" a welshman as you can get. In fact every person in my entire heritage comes from  carmarthenshire!
          > My data shows me R1b1b2a1b5
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          > L1- L21+ L23+ L49+ M126- M153- M160- M173+ M18- M207+ M222- M269+ M343+ M37- M65- M73- P25+ P310+ P311+ P312+ P66- SRY2627- U106- U152-
          >  
          > Is this typical of welsh?
          >  
          > Dave Davies
          >

        • Susan Rosine
          David does not fit in the 17-14-10 cluster, but he is R-L21*, which so far is the most common haplogroup in our Wales project.  Susan Co-admin ... From:
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 25, 2009
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            David does not fit in the 17-14-10 cluster, but he is R-L21*, which so far is the most common haplogroup in our Wales project. 
            Susan
            Co-admin

            --- On Sat, 11/7/09, harold.dicks <haroldjdicks@...> wrote:

            From: harold.dicks <haroldjdicks@...>
            Subject: [walesdna] Re: My welsh Y DNA??
            To: walesdna@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 8:12 AM

             
            Hi David--I'm a member of the 17 14 10 Welsh modal hosted by Robert Hughes and we appear to have the same results. If you aren't presently a member of the group, perhaps you's like to contact Robert and join. If you don't have his e-mail address, I do. Harold

            --- In walesdna@yahoogroup s.com, David Davies <felinfoel71@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > Just got my Y deep clade tests back ( Kit ID 69252), not sure what it all means to be honest, but I do know that as far back as I can search ( about 1780) I am as "pure" a welshman as you can get. In fact every person in my entire heritage comes from  carmarthenshire!
            > My data shows me R1b1b2a1b5
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            > L1- L21+ L23+ L49+ M126- M153- M160- M173+ M18- M207+ M222- M269+ M343+ M37- M65- M73- P25+ P310+ P311+ P312+ P66- SRY2627- U106- U152-
            >  
            > Is this typical of welsh?
            >  
            > Dave Davies
            >


          • haroldjdicks
            This DNA thingy and the way things can be the same yet different never ceases to amaze me. Harold ... From: Susan Rosine To: walesdna@yahoogroups.com Sent:
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 26, 2009
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              This DNA thingy and the way things can be the same yet different never ceases to amaze me.  Harold
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:07 PM
              Subject: Re: [walesdna] Re: My welsh Y DNA??

               

              David does not fit in the 17-14-10 cluster, but he is R-L21*, which so far is the most common haplogroup in our Wales project. 
              Susan
              Co-admin

              --- On Sat, 11/7/09, harold.dicks <haroldjdicks@ eastlink. ca> wrote:

              From: harold.dicks <haroldjdicks@ eastlink. ca>
              Subject: [walesdna] Re: My welsh Y DNA??
              To: walesdna@yahoogroup s.com
              Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 8:12 AM

               
              Hi David--I'm a member of the 17 14 10 Welsh modal hosted by Robert Hughes and we appear to have the same results. If you aren't presently a member of the group, perhaps you's like to contact Robert and join. If you don't have his e-mail address, I do. Harold

              --- In walesdna@yahoogroup s.com, David Davies <felinfoel71@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > Just got my Y deep clade tests back ( Kit ID 69252), not sure what it all means to be honest, but I do know that as far back as I can search ( about 1780) I am as "pure" a welshman as you can get. In fact every person in my entire heritage comes from  carmarthenshire!
              > My data shows me R1b1b2a1b5
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              > L1- L21+ L23+ L49+ M126- M153- M160- M173+ M18- M207+ M222- M269+ M343+ M37- M65- M73- P25+ P310+ P311+ P312+ P66- SRY2627- U106- U152-
              >  
              > Is this typical of welsh?
              >  
              > Dave Davies
              >


            • mikewww7
              Harold, I don t want to confuse things any further, but if you have a question, I ll try to answer. Here is my attempt at trying to describe the situation with
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 26, 2009
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                Harold,

                I don't want to confuse things any further, but if you have a question, I'll try to answer. Here is my attempt at trying to describe the situation with L159 and 17-14-10.

                17-14-10 is a "cluster" of people that appear to be related. There seems to be a heavy dose of these people from Wales but some can be found in England as well. The 17-14-10 pattern refers to the STR values of DYS448=17 DYS456=14 DYS450=10. At least two of the 17-14-10 people in the Wales project are SNP tested L21+ and M222- (another way to say this is R-L21*.) The other 17-14-10 folks have not been SNP tested, but since the 17-14-10 pattern is so clear, the odds are very high that all 17-14-10 people are R-L21*. 17-14-10, then, is a subset (a descendant) of R-L21*.

                It would be great if we could find an SNP that confirms 17-14-10 people are some kind of true clan. A good way to do that is get a 17-14-10 person tested in the Walk The Y project. The Leinster people (mostly of Ireland and Scotland) pooled their money had a person tested. They did find one new SNP that they all seem to have -> L159+. Several Leinster people had already deep clade tested so we know the Leinster cluster was a subset (descendant) of R-L21*. Now the question is, does L159+ mark the just the Leinster people, or does it mark other groups within R-L21* as well.

                Several other groups within R-L21* have tested as L159-, but we don't know about 17-14-10 because no one has been tested for it. There are a couple of off-modal STR markers in common between the Leinster and the 17-14-10 people which is why I think it is worth looking at.

                Regards,
                Mike

                --- In walesdna@yahoogroups.com, haroldjdicks <haroldjdicks@...> wrote:
                >
                > This DNA thingy and the way things can be the same yet different never ceases to amaze me. Harold
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Susan Rosine
                > To: walesdna@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:07 PM
                > Subject: Re: [walesdna] Re: My welsh Y DNA??
                >
                >
                >
                > David does not fit in the 17-14-10 cluster, but he is R-L21*, which so far is the most common haplogroup in our Wales project.
                > Susan
                > Co-admin
                >
                > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, harold.dicks <haroldjdicks@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: harold.dicks <haroldjdicks@...>
                > Subject: [walesdna] Re: My welsh Y DNA??
                > To: walesdna@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 8:12 AM
                >
                >
                >
                > Hi David--I'm a member of the 17 14 10 Welsh modal hosted by Robert Hughes and we appear to have the same results. If you aren't presently a member of the group, perhaps you's like to contact Robert and join. If you don't have his e-mail address, I do. Harold
                >
                > --- In walesdna@yahoogroup s.com, David Davies <felinfoel71@ ...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Just got my Y deep clade tests back ( Kit ID 69252), not sure what it all means to be honest, but I do know that as far back as I can search ( about 1780) I am as "pure" a welshman as you can get. In fact every person in my entire heritage comes from carmarthenshire!
                > > My data shows me R1b1b2a1b5
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > L1- L21+ L23+ L49+ M126- M153- M160- M173+ M18- M207+ M222- M269+ M343+ M37- M65- M73- P25+ P310+ P311+ P312+ P66- SRY2627- U106- U152-
                > >
                > > Is this typical of welsh?
                > >
                > > Dave Davies
                > >
                >
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