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Re: Fw: Subject : Welsh surname list and The last Dragon in Wales

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  • mwwalsh
    That s great news to have identified haplotype clusters for both R-M269 and Haplogroup I1a. Have the R-M269 participants in the cluster been deep clade SNP
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 23, 2009
      That's great news to have identified haplotype clusters for both
      R-M269 and Haplogroup I1a. Have the R-M269 participants in the
      cluster been deep clade SNP tested?

      Does Robert Hughes have a web site with more detail about cluster?

      --- In walesdna@yahoogroups.com, "Guy Sloop" <Welshdragon62@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Guy Sloop
      > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:37 PM
      > To: Walesdna@...
      > Cc: WelshDragon62@...
      > Subject: Fw: Subject : Welsh surname list and The last Dragon in Wales
      >
      > Hello everyone,
      >
      > I've been reading on this group about what could be a Welsh marker,
      or how far back you need to go to find out if your Welsh.
      >
      > Robert Hughes, who has been doing research now on a Welsh cluster
      that I'm a part of, has found some certain markers in our cluster that
      only our group share, if you read the letter below he sent me, they
      say our cluster could be as old as Neolithic times in Wales, that's
      way before 1066.
      > The reason I got tested was I didn't know my real surname, by
      getting tested, I've found out my y-dna comes from Wales, I just
      haven't nailed down the surname yet.
      > Some of my surnames that I have a close match with are Pugh, Gough,
      Roberts, Jones, Nichols and Davies.
      > Robert Hughes wanted me to get the R-L21 test done, so I did, I'm
      waiting on the results now.
      > I think all of you Welsh people will find the letter interesting.
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Robert Hughes
      > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 3:41 PM
      > To: welshdragon62@...
      > Cc: robert_hughes6@...
      > Subject: Subject : Welsh surname list and The last Dragon in Wales
      >
    • ljcrain2
      This is wonderful! Thank you so much! Janet Crain ... From: Guy Sloop To: walesdna@yahoogroups.com Cc: WelshDragon62@msn.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 23, 2009
        
        This is wonderful! Thank you so much!
         
        Janet Crain
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Guy Sloop
        Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 4:41 PM
        Subject: [walesdna] Fw: Subject : Welsh surname list and The last Dragon in Wales


        From: Guy Sloop
        Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:37 PM
        To: Walesdna@yahoogrops .com
        Cc: WelshDragon62@ msn.com
        Subject: Fw: Subject : Welsh surname list and The last Dragon in Wales

        Hello everyone,

        I've been reading on this group about what could be a Welsh marker, or how far back you need to go to find out if your Welsh.

        Robert Hughes, who has been doing research now on a Welsh cluster that I'm a part of, has found some certain markers in our cluster that only our group share, if you read the letter below he sent me, they say our cluster could be as old as Neolithic times in Wales, that's way before 1066.
        The reason I got tested was I didn't know my real surname, by getting tested, I've found out my y-dna comes from Wales, I just haven't nailed down the surname yet.
        Some of my surnames that I have a close match with are Pugh, Gough, Roberts, Jones, Nichols and  Davies.
        Robert Hughes wanted me to get the R-L21 test done, so I did, I'm waiting on the results now.
        I think all of you Welsh people will find the letter interesting.

        From: Robert Hughes
        Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 3:41 PM
        To: welshdragon62@ msn.com
        Cc: robert_hughes6@ hotmail.com
        Subject: Subject : Welsh surname list and The last Dragon in Wales

        Hello guy,
           Below is a copy of the last e-maio I sent to the Welsh Surname Cluster R1b PYP6F.
        Robert
         
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        27-January-2007

         

        The last Dragon in Wales

        Welsh surname cluster list, R1b PYP6F

        Welsh surname cluster list, I1a-AS2 BMU7X

         

        Hello List,

           I am still enjoying the Christmas holidays and I hope that everyone had as enjoyable a time as I did.

           There hasn?t been much time to devote to any cluster research which leaves little to report back to you.

            The last Dragon in Wales is scheduled to be slain, again; in July at Newcastle Emlyn, Cardiganshire, Wales. This is a symbolic yearly re-enactment of the legend of Welsh chieftain Owain Glyndwr whose standard was a winged red serpent. Today a red dragon is preserved on the national flag of Wales. This is significant because the ancestral home of one of our cluster members is the Newcastle Emlyn area. And since the cluster members are linked by their DNA, if we fudge a little and use our imagination, we can claim a ?symbolic? link to the last Dragon in Wales and to the serpent on the flag.

        Link =  http://www.newcastl e-emlyn.com/ dragonfestival/ index.shtml

           The Welsh Haplogroup I1a surname cluster list is still too small to see any trend yet. But they should grow with time.

           The Welsh Haplogroup R1b surname cluster can now be called a ?cluster? distinct from the more common Welsh R1b haplotypes. That is the opinion of both John McEwan and David Wilson. These two are pioneers in the field of genetic DNA genealogy.

           I am going to quote parts of two paragraphs from David?s letter to me.

           ?This definitely deserves to be called a cluster. I can't think of any good reason not to use that term. I would say that those whose haplotypes show this pattern share common descent from an individual who lived at least two thousand years ago and perhaps significantly longer ago than that.?

           ?This is fascinating. My guess is that with this haplotype you are looking far back to some of the earliest inhabitants of Wales. I do not believe that this is a cluster that evolved recently from the general Neolithic and Bronze Age Welsh population. My first thoughts are impressionistic, to be sure, but this feels to me like evidence of an early population?- -- (of Wales).

           David and John both explain that the age of this cluster may change when more information becomes available. And John cautions about how others might be upset if I imply that this is the only Welsh cluster to be found. Sort of like my ex wife who would get upset when she was driving the car and I would be over there stomping that phantom brake pedal. She would really get upset the times she would hear me mutter things like ?Easy now, easy--- that light?s red! OH MY GOD! SAVE US JESUS!?

           I think if I use Russell Smith?s designator ?PYP6F? as part of the title, then that should distinguish our R1b cluster from the rest of the Welsh R1b?s. (The same goes with using BMU7X for Jeff and Bob,s haplogroup I1a list.)

          When Russell first proposed a Welsh R1b cluster, I doubt that he realized the really interesting and exciting things that might come from it. The next couple of years should be lots of fun, at least for me. If we can get the right people and institutions looking at these two DNA clusters, the adventure should really begin. That?s what I am working on now, wish me luck.

        Regards, Robert

        27-January-2007

        The last Dragon in Wales

        Welsh surname cluster list, R1b PYP6F

        Welsh surname cluster list, I1a-AS2 BMU7X

        Hello List,

        I am still enjoying the Christmas holidays and I hope that everyone had as enjoyable a time as I did.

        There hasn?t been much time to devote to any cluster research which leaves little to report back to you.

        The last Dragon in Wales is scheduled to be slain, again; in July at Newcastle Emlyn, Cardiganshire, Wales. This is a symbolic yearly re-enactment of the legend of Welsh chieftain Owain Glyndwr whose standard was a winged red serpent. Today a red dragon is preserved on the national flag of Wales. This is significant because the ancestral home of one of our cluster members is the Newcastle Emlyn area. And since the cluster members are linked by their DNA, if we fudge a little and use our imagination, we can claim a "symbolic" link to the last Dragon in Wales and to the serpent on the flag.

        Link = http://www.newcastl e-emlyn.com/ dragonfestival/ index.shtml

        The Welsh Haplogroup I1a surname cluster list is still too small to see any trend yet. But they should grow with time.

        The Welsh Haplogroup R1b surname cluster can now be called a "cluster" distinct from the more common Welsh R1b haplotypes. That is the opinion of both John McEwan and David Wilson. These two are pioneers in the field of genetic DNA genealogy.

        I am going to quote parts of two paragraphs from David?s letter to me.

        "This definitely deserves to be called a cluster. I can't think of any good reason not to use that term. I would say that those whose haplotypes show this pattern share common descent from an individual who lived at least two thousand years ago and perhaps significantly longer ago than that."

        "This is fascinating. My guess is that with this haplotype you are looking far back to some of the earliest inhabitants of Wales. I do not believe that this is a cluster that evolved recently from the general Neolithic and Bronze Age Welsh population. My first thoughts are impressionistic, to be sure, but this feels to me like evidence of an early population"- -- (of Wales).

        David and John both explain that the age of this cluster may change when more information becomes available. And John cautions about how others might be upset if I imply that this is the only Welsh cluster to be found. Sort of like my ex wife who would get upset when she was driving the car and I would be over there stomping that phantom brake pedal. She would really get upset the times she would hear me mutter things like "Easy now, easy--- that light?s red! OH MY GOD! SAVE US JESUS!"

        I think if I use Russell Smith?s designator "PYP6F" as part of the title, then that should distinguish our R1b cluster from the rest of the Welsh R1b?s. (The same goes with using BMU7X for Jeff and Bob,s haplogroup I1a list.)

        When Russell first proposed a Welsh R1b cluster, I doubt that he realized the really interesting and exciting things that might come from it. The next couple of years should be lots of fun, at least for me. If we can get the right people and institutions looking at these two DNA clusters, the adventure should really begin. That?s what I am working on now, wish me luck.

        Regards, Robert

         




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