Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [walesdna] Let's make this the year of Welsh DNA

Expand Messages
  • brian swann
    Dear Susan Well - you will at least be pleased to know that the title of my presentation is: Reverse Genealogy - Tracing People Forwards in England and Wales
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 23, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Message
      Dear Susan
       
      Well - you will at least be pleased to know that the title of my presentation is:
       
      "Reverse Genealogy - Tracing People Forwards in England and Wales and Recruiting Them for DNA Testing"
       
      After the meeting at Carmarthen of the Dyfed FHS -- I am going to have a serious attempt, hopefully with the support of the Committee - to see if the other volumes of the Golden Grove MSS cannot be put online.  This would then be a very good start on these "ancient pedigrees" - along with Peter Bartrum's compilations which will go online in the next 18 months or so.  That would then give us a lever to make some further progress.
       
      My pipe dream would be to get the Welsh MSS at the College of Arms online.  They have a fantastic, under-appreciated resource - but they are essentially a private organisation.  I will at least ask them at WDYTYA what their attitude might be.
       
      We are saying the same thing - I am just indicating what it involves on this side of the pond.  I also believe Americans could do a lot more to recruit UK participants in all DNA projects - but they need to tailor their approaches accordingly.  Most British folk would not be very interested in American FH problems and source materials -- but DNA recruitment can change all of that.  I have more Picton folk recruited outside of the UK than in it.  They are, in general, more responsive.
       
      Best regards
       
      Brian

      Brian Picton Swann
      ISOGG Regional Co-ordinator, England & Wales

      -----Original Message-----
      From: walesdna@yahoogroups.com [mailto:walesdna@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Susan Rosine
      Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 6:20 AM
      To: walesdna@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [walesdna] Let's make this the year of Welsh DNA

      Hi Brian (and All)
       
      Well, I am still going to remain enthusiastic!  I think if we can get more people to test 37-67 markers, and more people to do the Deep Clade testing, we may find that there ARE genetic markers for the Welsh. Of course, I am talking about those of us who can trace our line(s) back before the Norman Conquest. It would be great to find more people who can actually trace their lines back to those famous old pedigrees that you mentioned.
      It's all about getting more of the Welsh (or people of Welsh descent, such as some Americans), to test, test, test!!! Brian, I thank you very much for the work you're already doing in the UK!!

      Susan

      --- On Sun, 2/22/09, brian swann <bps@norvic8. force9.co. uk> wrote:

      From: brian swann <bps@norvic8. force9.co. uk>
      Subject: RE: [walesdna] Let's make this the year of Welsh DNA
      To: walesdna@yahoogroup s.com
      Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 3:40 PM

      Dear Susan, Linda
       
      Let me restrain or reorientate your enthusiasm a little bit.
       
      I am just repeating what I have said on other occasions.  I believe the Welsh have a lot to contribute to DNA in Family History research.  I think the long Welsh pedigrees which survive recorded in 15-17th century MSS are probably unique to Wales and reflect the Welsh bardic tradition.
       
      The "Advenae" who came to Wales represent a different population mix -- but some interesting surnames that can be linked to Normano/English origins and invaders.
       
      As the ISOGG Regional Co-ordinator for England and Wales - I am very circumspect never to lump the Welsh in with the English (My wife, who is Welsh would never forgive me) -- but as above, that is not to say that the English have not invaded and settled in Wales since the Norman conquest.
       
      I was at least down in Carmarthen this past Saturday spreading the word about DNA Testing at the AGM of the Dyfed FHS - and will be doing the same next weekend at WDYTYA at London, Olympia.
       
      This is just to begin to get DNA onto the radar screen of the folk you need -- otherwise your pleas will remain pipe dreams.  And ideas of Deep Clade testing or 38-67 markers are unknown territory to almost all Welsh Family Historians at present who actually live in Wales - they would not have a clue what you are talking about.  There is no genetic marker for Welsh/Wales as there is for the Normans or any other tribal race you care to name.
       
      Best regards
       
      Brian
       
      Brian Picton Swann
      ISOGG Regional Co-ordinator, England & Wales

    • rjh450872
      Brian, Could you expand on your comment: There is no genetic marker for Welsh/Wales as there is for the Normans or any other tribal race you care to name ?
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 23, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Brian,

        Could you expand on your comment: "There is no genetic marker for
        Welsh/Wales as there is for the Normans or any other tribal race you
        care to name"? Are you saying there is no genetic marker for
        Welsh/Wales and no genetic markers for NormansÂ…. Or are you saying:
        there is no genetic marker for Welsh/Wales unlike with Normans where
        there is a genetic marker?

        If you believe there is a genetic marker for Normans, could you
        explain and identify this marker.

        Thanks

        Bob Haskins
        www.hoskinsdna.org
        rjhaskins@...
      • mwwalsh
        Great question, Bob. I noticed the same issue but forgot to bring it up. Brian, Could you expand on your comment: There is no genetic marker for
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 23, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Great question, Bob. I noticed the same issue but forgot to bring it up.

          "Brian, Could you expand on your comment: "There is no genetic marker
          for Welsh/Wales as there is for the Normans or any other tribal race
          you care to name"?

          The implication made, I think, is that there IS a genetic marker for
          the Normans. It may be, as I was told a year or two ago, that Brian
          is referring to DYS492 for an R-M269 individual. Some people (I think
          it is John M. - who is highly respected) feel like a value of 13 is
          typical of Normans.

          Since these STR measured markers go up and down (it is not a single
          unique event measurement) it dubious to use a single value like this
          as "the" indicator. All of this is a good reason to make sure you do
          your deep clade SNP testing as well.

          Perhaps more importantly, the Norman invaders were a mixed group of
          true Norse-men (which I'd expect to have a lot of Hg I), Bretons
          (which could be very similar to Britons and Welsh), and Flemish. A lot
          of things could be Norman.

          --- In walesdna@yahoogroups.com, "rjh450872" <rjhaskins@...> wrote:
          >
          > Brian,
          >
          > Could you expand on your comment: "There is no genetic marker for
          > Welsh/Wales as there is for the Normans or any other tribal race you
          > care to name"? Are you saying there is no genetic marker for
          > Welsh/Wales and no genetic markers for NormansÂ…. Or are you saying:
          > there is no genetic marker for Welsh/Wales unlike with Normans where
          > there is a genetic marker?
          >
          > If you believe there is a genetic marker for Normans, could you
          > explain and identify this marker.
          >
          > Thanks
          >
          > Bob Haskins
          > www.hoskinsdna.org
          > rjhaskins@...
          >
        • mwwalsh
          Great work, Brian! We appreciate your research.
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 23, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Great work, Brian! We appreciate your research.

            --- In walesdna@yahoogroups.com, "brian swann" <bps@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Susan
            >
            > Well - you will at least be pleased to know that the title of my
            > presentation is:
            >
            > "Reverse Genealogy - Tracing People Forwards in England and Wales and
            > Recruiting Them for DNA Testing"
            >
            > After the meeting at Carmarthen of the Dyfed FHS -- I am going to have a
            > serious attempt, hopefully with the support of the Committee - to see if
            > the other volumes of the Golden Grove MSS cannot be put online. This
            > would then be a very good start on these "ancient pedigrees" - along
            > with Peter Bartrum's compilations which will go online in the next 18
            > months or so. That would then give us a lever to make some further
            > progress.
            >
            > My pipe dream would be to get the Welsh MSS at the College of Arms
            > online. They have a fantastic, under-appreciated resource - but they
            > are essentially a private organisation. I will at least ask them at
            > WDYTYA what their attitude might be.
            >
            > We are saying the same thing - I am just indicating what it involves on
            > this side of the pond. I also believe Americans could do a lot more to
            > recruit UK participants in all DNA projects - but they need to tailor
            > their approaches accordingly. Most British folk would not be very
            > interested in American FH problems and source materials -- but DNA
            > recruitment can change all of that. I have more Picton folk recruited
            > outside of the UK than in it. They are, in general, more responsive.
            >
            > Best regards
            >
            > Brian
            >
            > Brian Picton Swann
            > ISOGG Regional Co-ordinator, England & Wales
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: walesdna@yahoogroups.com [mailto:walesdna@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf Of Susan Rosine
            > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 6:20 AM
            > To: walesdna@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [walesdna] Let's make this the year of Welsh DNA
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi Brian (and All)
            >
            > Well, I am still going to remain enthusiastic! I think if we can get
            > more people to test 37-67 markers, and more people to do the Deep Clade
            > testing, we may find that there ARE genetic markers for the Welsh. Of
            > course, I am talking about those of us who can trace our line(s) back
            > before the Norman Conquest. It would be great to find more people who
            > can actually trace their lines back to those famous old pedigrees that
            > you mentioned.
            > It's all about getting more of the Welsh (or people of Welsh descent,
            > such as some Americans), to test, test, test!!! Brian, I thank you very
            > much for the work you're already doing in the UK!!
            >
            > Susan
            >
            > --- On Sun, 2/22/09, brian swann <bps@norvic8.
            > <mailto:bps%40norvic8.force9.co.uk> force9.co.uk> wrote:
            >
            > From: brian swann <bps@norvic8. <mailto:bps%40norvic8.force9.co.uk>
            > force9.co.uk>
            > Subject: RE: [walesdna] Let's make this the year of Welsh DNA
            > To: walesdna@yahoogroup <mailto:walesdna%40yahoogroups.com> s.com
            > Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 3:40 PM
            >
            > Dear Susan, Linda
            >
            > Let me restrain or reorientate your enthusiasm a little bit.
            >
            > I am just repeating what I have said on other occasions. I believe the
            > Welsh have a lot to contribute to DNA in Family History research. I
            > think the long Welsh pedigrees which survive recorded in 15-17th century
            > MSS are probably unique to Wales and reflect the Welsh bardic tradition.
            >
            > The "Advenae" who came to Wales represent a different population mix --
            > but some interesting surnames that can be linked to Normano/English
            > origins and invaders.
            >
            > As the ISOGG Regional Co-ordinator for England and Wales - I am very
            > circumspect never to lump the Welsh in with the English (My wife, who is
            > Welsh would never forgive me) -- but as above, that is not to say that
            > the English have not invaded and settled in Wales since the Norman
            > conquest.
            >
            > I was at least down in Carmarthen this past Saturday spreading the word
            > about DNA Testing at the AGM of the Dyfed FHS - and will be doing the
            > same next weekend at WDYTYA at London, Olympia.
            >
            > This is just to begin to get DNA onto the radar screen of the folk you
            > need -- otherwise your pleas will remain pipe dreams. And ideas of Deep
            > Clade testing or 38-67 markers are unknown territory to almost all Welsh
            > Family Historians at present who actually live in Wales - they would not
            > have a clue what you are talking about. There is no genetic marker for
            > Welsh/Wales as there is for the Normans or any other tribal race you
            > care to name.
            >
            > Best regards
            >
            > Brian
            >
            > Brian Picton Swann
            > ISOGG Regional Co-ordinator, England & Wales
            >
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.