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lawsuit against Highland Hall over child's water bottle

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  • Dan Dugan
    I have received the following: -Dan Dugan *** LAWSUIT FILED AGAINST HIGHLAND HALL WALDORF SCHOOL On June 7,2007, myself, Maura Swanson, and my husband, Karl
    Message 1 of 30 , Jul 3, 2007
      I have received the following:

      -Dan Dugan

      ***

      LAWSUIT FILED AGAINST HIGHLAND HALL WALDORF SCHOOL

      On June 7,2007, myself, Maura Swanson, and my husband, Karl Haas,
      filed a lawsuit with the help of our attorney, Bill Becker, in the
      Chatsworth Court House against Highland Hall Waldorf School in
      Northridge, Ca. Our complaint names as defendants Highland Hall, as
      well as teachers, Lisa Scemema Profumo, Merrily Lovell, and Judy
      Taylor; administrator Ed Eadon; and President of the Board Tony Blake.

      The lawsuit was filed within the one year statute of limitations and
      was in response to our eight year old daughter being unjustifiably
      expelled one week before she would have completed second grade.
      Despite the fact that we had not only been parents at Highland Hall
      for almost 12 years, and volunteered hundreds of hours each year,
      and,also, that I had been periodically employed as a part-time teacher
      in the high school, our family was notified by messenger that we were
      not allowed on campus and our daughter was expelled because we had
      allegedly violated the school communications regarding a water bottle.
      We have attached the communications regarding the water bottle.

      Our family was never given a warning that our daughter was about to be
      expelled because we asked a simple question. We were never given any
      opportunity to discuss or question the basis for this abrupt,
      unfounded and traumatic action because the teachers and administrator
      behind this decision hid behind the anonymity of a late night
      messenger service. To this day, no one from the school will return
      our calls, e-mails or any other correspondence requesting an
      explanation. Not being able to prepare our child for the shock of
      such a cruel and bizarre decision to prevent her from completing the
      last five days of school will permanently impact her. We never
      imagined that a school that claims to cherish the sanctity of
      childhood would openly demonstrate such a pathological lack of empathy
      for an innocent child.

      Every principal or school administrator we have spoken to since being
      banished from Highland Hall has been stunned by the lack of due
      process. No one can comprehend the flimsy excuse for inflicting the
      inexplicable cruelty of being expelled on a child who has done
      absolutely nothing wrong. We have had the opportunity to interview
      many educators in the last year because our oldest child was preparing
      to graduate from High School and our middle child was finishing Eighth
      grade. The last 12 months have been spent researching possible
      colleges, high schools and elementary schools for our three children.
      (If anyone is wondering about our sincerity in trying to provide our
      children with a meaningful education, they might be interested to know
      that our oldest daughter will be attending Stanford this fall, having
      received nearly a full scholarship.)

      HIghland Hall and each of the defendants have been sent by certified
      mail a copy of the complaint that charges them with breach of
      contract, negligent and intentional infliction of emotional distress,
      fraud and defamation. Highland Hall and its defendants have been
      given thirty days to respond to the initial complaint. As of today,
      the defendants have not responded.

      Below is a copy of the initial e-mail correspondence between us and
      the Second grade teacher, Judy Taylor regarding the infamous water
      bottle. They have to be read in reverse order. If anyone is
      interested in contacting us, or would like to see a copy of the letter
      we sent them requesting an explanation, please feel free to contact us
      at mskeh@... Our lawyer is willing to add additional
      plantiffs to our complaint.


      Begin forwarded message:

      > From: "Judy Taylor" -address deleted-
      > Date: June 1, 2006 1:16:05 PM PDT
      >
      > Subject: water
      >
      > Dear Maura,
      >
      > I know that Lilly only brings water and I appreciate your compliance
      with this. Unfortunately, before I allow something in the class, I
      must think through what would happen if everyone did it. When I
      cleaned out the cubbies, I did find other things and I am not able, at
      this late juncture in the school year, to take on the implementation
      of such a new policy. Additionally, the mere act of getting water from
      cubbies rather than the sink or drinking fountain creates a much
      different and more chaotic social situation that, again, I simply am
      not up to dealing with at the end of the school year.
      > If everyone starts bringing water to keep on the counter, we may
      have to store it in a moveable basket, as it is my only "prep area" in
      the classroom. Other possiblities would be disposable cups for her, or
      using the outside drinking fountain.
      > We are in the school of "Right Now" and, as such, must deal with
      limited space and (sometimes) finances; this leads us (okay, me) to
      imperfect solutions at times.
      >
      > Judy Taylor
      >
      >> To: "Judy Taylor" -address deleted-
      >> Subject: Re: ants in cubbies
      >> Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:14:43 -0700
      >>
      >> Judy,
      >> Lilly's drinking only water that is packed with her lunch - she has
      never taken a juice box or any other drink to school.
      >>
      >> We will tell Lilly that we have communicated with you and that
      before she goes outside for the first recess, after she has finished
      her snack, she should put her water bottle on the counter, so that it
      is there when she comes inside. She may need a little reminder from
      you that this is the new system.
      >>
      >> We appreciate you allowing this. For the 12 years we've been at
      this school, we have never wanted our children to use the glasses in
      the classroom, because it's another possible way to spread germs.
      Considering the amount of strep throat, stomach viruses and other
      bugs that have galloped through so many Second grade families in the
      past month, and the fact that Lilly has gotten none of these
      illnesses, we are convinced that Lilly drinking only from her
      container and not sharing food with her friends has helped reduce the
      risk of her (and our family) getting sick.
      >>
      >> Thank You,
      >> Maura and Karl
      >>
      >> On Jun 1, 2006, at 6:23 AM, Judy Taylor wrote:
      >>
      >>> Lilly may keep extra water on the shelf where we keep the cups or
      on the counter adjacent to the sink. Unfortunately, children began
      to keep other drinks for mid-morning sipping in their cubbies, along
      with some other snack items (outside of lunchboxes), which attracted
      some insects that I spent several hours after work one day
      evacuating. Water is fine; it is about its location.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>> To: Taylor Judy -address deleted-
      >>>> Subject: water in class
      >>>> Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 22:40:17 -0700
      >>>>
      >>>> Hi Judy,
      >>>> Lilly told us that you have a new rule which says that after
      >>>>each recess, your students are no longer allowed to go to their
      >>>>cubby
      and drink the water they packed for school. Instead, they must only
      drink from the water and cups that are available in the classroom.
      Is it possible that Lilly has misunderstood something? We do not
      want Lilly to use the porcelain classroom cups. Even though the
      school provides filtered water, the cups are not always clean,
      and/or the children are not always fastidious about returning their
      cup to the space on the shelf that has their name. We only want
      Lilly to drink the water that we send with her to school. We do
      not wish to add more chaos to your classroom, but if you could allow
      Lilly to continue to drink her own bottled water, we would
      appreciate it. If you would like to discuss this, or if Lilly has
      misunderstood what you are requesting, please let us know.
      >>>>
      >>>> Thank You,
      >>>> Maura Swanson and Karl Haas
    • Roger Rawlings
      ... The thought processes of Waldorf teachers are often difficult to trace. One is tempted, in a case like this, to assume that the issue of the water bottle
      Message 2 of 30 , Jul 4, 2007
        --- In waldorf-critics@yahoogroups.com, Dan Dugan <dan@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have received the following:
        >
        > -Dan Dugan
        >
        > ***
        >
        > LAWSUIT FILED AGAINST HIGHLAND HALL WALDORF SCHOOL
        >
        > On June 7,2007, myself, Maura Swanson, and my husband, Karl Haas,
        > filed a lawsuit with the help of our attorney, Bill Becker, in the
        > Chatsworth Court House against Highland Hall Waldorf School in
        > Northridge, Ca. Our complaint names as defendants Highland Hall, as
        > well as teachers, Lisa Scemema Profumo, Merrily Lovell, and Judy
        > Taylor; administrator Ed Eadon; and President of the Board Tony Blake.
        >
        > The lawsuit was filed within the one year statute of limitations and
        > was in response to our eight year old daughter being unjustifiably
        > expelled one week before she would have completed second grade.
        > Despite the fact that we had not only been parents at Highland Hall
        > for almost 12 years, and volunteered hundreds of hours each year,
        > and,also, that I had been periodically employed as a part-time teacher
        > in the high school, our family was notified by messenger that we were
        > not allowed on campus and our daughter was expelled because we had
        > allegedly violated the school communications regarding a water bottle.
        > We have attached the communications regarding the water bottle.

        The thought processes of Waldorf teachers are often difficult to trace. One is tempted, in a
        case like this, to assume that the issue of the water bottle was a mere pretext—that the
        teacher(s) wanted to expel the child for some esoteric reason, but rather that laying open
        their occult secrets, they chose to fight the battle on the basis of drinking water.

        A couple of other thoughts do spring to mind, however:

        1) One Waldorf precept is that, especially in the early grades, students should obey their
        teachers virtually without question or demur. This is, in Anthroposophical lore, necessary
        for the child's proper spiritual development. So a Waldorf teacher could conceivably
        conclude that even a minor divergence from the practices s/he has laid down reveals that
        a child is spiritually unfit. (Zounds!)

        2) Also, Steiner taught that all physical things, including water, have spiritual qualities and
        powers: e.g. "Water, in effect, is eminently suited to prepare the ways within the earthly
        domain for those forces which come, for instance, from the Moon. Water brings about the
        distribution of the lunar forces in the earthly realm...[Rudolf Steiner, AGRICULTURE
        COURSE (Forest Row, UK, Rudolf Steiner Press, 2004), p.26] Conceivably Waldorf teachers
        may decide that water brought into the school, as opposed to water provided by the
        school, is spiritually unacceptable, making for a spiritually unhealthy environment.

        Just some speculations, I'll be interested to read what others on the list make of this
        extraordinary case.

        --Roger
      • Roger Rawlings
        cont. 3) R. Steiner did not entirely reject the germ theory. (See, e.g., The Healing Process: Spirit, Nature and Our Bodies - Page 12 by Rudolf Steiner - 2000
        Message 3 of 30 , Jul 4, 2007
          cont.

          3) R. Steiner did not entirely reject the germ theory. (See, e.g., The Healing Process: Spirit,
          Nature and Our Bodies - Page 12 by Rudolf Steiner - 2000 "It is not my intention here to
          say anything against germ theory, which in fact is very useful. The appearance of different
          bacilli in different locations is ..."

          But he generally taught that physical conditions reflect spiritual (karmic) conditions, and
          illnesses are the working out of karmic destiny (see http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/
          articles/Smith-Hald.html)

          My recollection is that we had a water sink at the rear of most classrooms and one or two
          shared water glasses. We rinsed—but did not clean—the glasses.

          4) In dealing with Waldorf staff, always remember that you are probably dealing with
          mystics, not rationalists. Remember that Steiner said the brain is irrelevant to true
          cognition. My guess about Highland Hills (only a guess) is that someone had a vision
          indicating the child must go—so out she went.

          --Roger
        • winters_diana
          The story was first reported here a year ago, I think when it happened. I have a couple of reactions, but foremost that it is obviously not really about a
          Message 4 of 30 , Jul 4, 2007
            The story was first reported here a year ago, I think when it
            happened.

            I have a couple of reactions, but foremost that it is obviously not
            really about a water bottle, given that the family had been at the
            school a very long time. These situations always result from long
            conflicts and breakdown of trust and communication, a long war that
            is hot and then cold and then hot again, and finally some excuse is
            found to end it, like in any long relationship that is irreparably
            broken.

            But I don't find it hard to believe at all that the teacher couldn't
            handle a simple change or deviation in routine of this sort. Whether
            it's poor training, or whether people like this are attracted to
            Waldorf training, it's a very common scenario that the teacher is
            simply too inflexible to know any other way to handle this, and
            something that in most any classroom (child keeping water bottle in
            cubby) would not cause 10 seconds of commotion, becomes the cause of
            a complete breakdown in the teacher's coping skills, and a crisis is
            precipitated.

            Crises over (what should be) very small hygiene or sanitary matters
            are also common in Waldorf. Roger's story of glasses rinsed but not
            washed matches my experience. I could tell lots of other stories on
            this - the classroom with no hot water, so we just used cold water;
            the cloth napkins that the children shared, crusted with food and
            washed once a week - and of course the famous communal washbowl. (Do
            you remember a communal washbowl, Roger?)

            Diana
          • winters_diana
            ... Yes. Also, there is a strong emphasis on doing everything communally; children shouldn t be singled out from one another in any way, everyone must perform
            Message 5 of 30 , Jul 4, 2007
              Roger commented:

              >1) One Waldorf precept is that, especially in the early grades,
              >students should obey their teachers virtually without question or
              >demur.

              Yes. Also, there is a strong emphasis on doing everything communally;
              children shouldn't be singled out from one another in any way,
              everyone must perform the same routines together at the same time, or
              else too much individuality is encouraged too soon. (And that's
              too "astral" or something.) That's why the teacher frets that all the
              glasses or bottles be in one place, so that one child doesn't have to
              go to some different place to get *her* things, and her things don't
              look different or cause anyone to comment to her about it. Again, in
              any other type classroom no one would think twice about something so
              trivial as getting your water bottle out of your cubby, and the
              teacher probably makes the child more "self-conscious" by worrying
              about it than she would by letting her go get the damn water bottle
              without acting like this was significant.

              >This is, in Anthroposophical lore, necessary for the child's proper
              >spiritual development. So a Waldorf teacher could conceivably
              >conclude that even a minor divergence from the practices s/he has
              >laid down reveals that a child is spiritually unfit.

              To put it kindly, they may not think the child is unfit, but she will
              be "damaged" by being allowed to deviate from the class's routines.

              Also, the kindergarten teachers consider it one of their main jobs to
              orchestrate all these little routines. They've really put a lot of
              thought into just how to organize all these thousands of little
              details as to how the children move through the day (literally move
              physically). She'll have spent hours walking through it, they'll take
              off their shoes and then they'll stop HERE for their glass and then
              they'll sit HERE etc. One child going to her cubby on the other side
              of the room while the others get glasses off a different shelf,
              messes everything up. It's all significant, and they're very invested
              in how perfectly they've worked it out. In addition to being
              inflexible (and this appeals to inflexible personalities), they're
              sort of propietary about the way they've organized things, and
              offended when someone wants to change it or points out a more
              practical way.

              Diana
            • winters_diana
              ... Quite true. To the parents it was obvious that it was a good thing that the girl had avoided catching various stomach bugs that were going around. To the
              Message 6 of 30 , Jul 4, 2007
                Roger:

                >But he generally taught that physical conditions reflect spiritual
                >(karmic) conditions, and illnesses are the working out of karmic
                >destiny

                Quite true. To the parents it was obvious that it was a good thing that
                the girl had avoided catching various stomach bugs that were going
                around. To the teacher, this isn't obvious at all. She won't say so to
                the parents, but she doesn't necessarily think it's always a good thing
                to prevent children getting sick. Preventing the spread of germs is
                definitely not something she strategizes about. So she is just not
                terribly sympathetic to this parental concern; the location of the
                water glasses, the routines the children move through when they get a
                drink of water, etc., anthroposophically speaking all this is much more
                important to the child's "health" than avoidance of germs.

                Diana
              • Roger Rawlings
                ... Don t think so. Our school was pretty well endowed: hot water, sinks, etc. But I think I remember (don t hold me to this absolutely) that after taking
                Message 7 of 30 , Jul 5, 2007
                  >(Do you remember a communal washbowl, Roger?)
                  >
                  > Diana
                  >

                  Don't think so. Our school was pretty well endowed: hot water, sinks, etc. But I think I
                  remember (don't hold me to this absolutely) that after taking showers (after gym classes), we
                  shared towels.

                  --Roger
                • Roger Rawlings
                  Also, the kindergarten teachers consider it one of their main jobs to ... There s a tremendous emphasis in Athroposophy and Waldorf on pattern. Everything has
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jul 5, 2007
                    Also, the kindergarten teachers consider it one of their main jobs to
                    > orchestrate all these little routines.

                    There's a tremendous emphasis in Athroposophy and Waldorf on pattern. Everything has
                    occult meaning. The teachers are supposed to be leading the kids through "the divine cosmic
                    plan." Breaking up the patterns means violating the intentions of the gods. (!)

                    --Roger
                  • Roger Rawlings
                    Returning to the ostensible subject: water. Remember that at Waldorf nothing is as it seems. Outwardly, water is maya, and it would not exist in the world
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jul 5, 2007
                      Returning to the ostensible subject: water. Remember that at Waldorf nothing is as it seems.

                      "Outwardly, water is maya, and it would not exist in the world were it not for
                      its spiritual foundation in renunciation or resignation."

                      Rudolf Steiner, "The Spiritual Hierarchies and the Physical World: Reality and Illusion", Steiner
                      Books, 1996, p. 207, ISBN 0880104406

                      I'll drink to that.

                      --Roger
                    • Roger Rawlings
                      (Still more rain.) Relevant to our current discussion: Steiner taught that children pass through three stages of development, and that anything approximating a
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jul 5, 2007
                        (Still more rain.)

                        Relevant to our current discussion: Steiner taught that children pass through three stages
                        of development, and that anything approximating a normal education should be
                        postponed until the third stage:

                        "Until the time of the change of teeth [i.e., loss of baby teeth—around age 7], children
                        want to imitate. Until the time of puberty [around age 14], they want to stand under
                        authority, and then [over age 14] they want to use their judgment in the world...What do
                        human beings actually desire when they arrive from the spirit-soul world and clothe
                        themselves in bodies? Human beings want to bring what they previously lived through in
                        the spiritual world...Before the change of teeth, human beings are, in a sense, focused on
                        the past...Children live so much in the past and, in many respects, reveal, not the physical,
                        but the prenatal, the spirit-soul past. After human beings have gone through the change
                        of teeth, they actually live constantly in the present...Before puberty it is not wise to offer
                        systematized instruction because children have a correct inner concept of truth only
                        following puberty." - Rudolf Steiner, THE FOUNDATIONS OF HUMAN EXPERIENCE
                        (Foundations of Waldorf Education, 1) (Great Barrington, MA: Anthroposophic Press, 1996),
                        pp. 155-158.

                        Note that children are expected to exert little or no individuality or initiative until at least
                        age 14. Children who fail to follow the correct pattern may be judged to be spiritually
                        deficient. "[C]ases are increasing in which children are born with a human form, but are
                        not really human beings...instead, they are filled with beings that do not belong to the
                        human class. Quite a number of people have been born...[who] are not reincarnated, but
                        are human forms filled with a sort of natural demon...." - FACULTY MEETINGS WITH
                        RUDOLF STEINER, p. 649.

                        To be expelled from a Waldorf because of a bottle of water—or for any other reason—is a
                        great, unintended mercy. As Monty Python used to say so wisely: "Run away!"

                        --Roger
                      • Dan Dugan
                        I had forgotten, but here are the posts when this issue was aired on this list a year ago: -Dan Dugan *** Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:32:43 +0000 From: Pete
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jul 5, 2007
                          I had forgotten, but here are the posts when this issue was aired on
                          this list a year ago:

                          -Dan Dugan

                          ***

                          Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:32:43 +0000
                          From: Pete Karaiskos (pkcompany netzero.net)
                          Subject: RE: More Trouble Brewing at HH

                          Pete Karaiskos wrote:
                          ) I'm a little pressed for time tonight, but I'll be providing the details
                          )
                          ) on this list tomorrow.

                          The following letter was written by the family of the eight-year-old
                          girl who was expelled from Highland Hall five days before the end of the
                          semester because someone told someone else that one of her parents had
                          discussed an event (concerning whether or not the child would be allowed
                          to bring bottled water into the classroom and be allowed to drink from
                          it at a time appointed by the teacher) with another parent. Amazing as
                          it seems, parents are not allowed to talk to each other about class
                          issues and because this parent was ACCUSED of talking about this, the 8
                          year old child was expelled. The parents, Highland Hall parents since
                          1994, were told they must be escorted onto the campus to retrieve the
                          child's belongings.

                          This occurred because this particular family was vocal during the verbal
                          and emotional abuse inflicted by a bad teacher - and previously during
                          the coverup of child molestation incidents. Could Highland Hall have
                          waited 5 days to expel the child quietly? Of course. But the impact on
                          the family would not have been as devastating - not adequate revenge for
                          a family that speaks up about problems there. And the example to other
                          parents is far more shocking when it happens like this. Let everyone
                          who reads this know what lengths some Waldorf schools will go to in
                          order to quiet parents and avoid public scrutiny. The same few teachers
                          and administrators who are working to destroy Highland Hall are, once
                          again, at the bottom of this. Certainly, by publicly commenting on this
                          incident, I am putting myself and my children in jeopardy. It always
                          saddens me to see the same small-minded few at Highland Hall continually
                          undermine the integrity of the school for those of us who would like it
                          to be a good school for our kids. Once again, Highland Hall has behaved
                          shamefully when it would have been just as easy to behave honestly.

                          Below is the text of the letter:
                          * * * * *

                          June 11, 2006

                          Dear Friends,

                          We know many of you are deeply upset about the administration's sudden
                          decision to remove our daughter from class, five days before school is
                          over. We have heard that there will be a meeting of all concerned
                          parents on Monday. Because we believe there are always at least two
                          sides to every story, and we have no other way to publicly speak on our
                          behalf, we would like to offer our take on what's happened. We
                          absolutely have no expectation that this will change the decision. If,
                          at the Monday meeting, you are told "It's very complicated - there are a
                          lot of details about these parents that you don't know, but are too
                          difficult to explain", please believe those are the same key details we
                          don't know about either.

                          If you are going to take the time to attend the Monday meeting, we hope
                          you will also take a few minutes to read this letter. If you're really
                          curious or concerned, this situation does require a prologue.

                          BRIEF HISTORY:

                          )From June 2003 to January 2004, we repeatedly asked for the school's
                          help in addressing our mounting concerns with our Fifth grade son's
                          teacher, Mrs. {Teacher1}. After a long brutal process, we agreed with
                          the school that our son should not stay in Mrs. {Teacher1}'s class,
                          because there was only one other parent besides us that was willing to
                          come forward and say that they felt she was doing inappropriate things
                          to the children. Two days after we came to the conclusion that by Sixth
                          grade we would find another school for our son, Mrs. {Teacher1} decided
                          to teach the children a song involving very graphic violence against
                          women imagery. The College immediately put her on a paid leave of
                          absence. The rest of the semester was filled with a lot of anguishing
                          meetings with many of the parents crying and yelling at various members
                          of the College, insisting Mrs. {Teacher1} didn't deserve the way she was
                          being treated. Ultimately, Mrs. {Teacher1} could not resolve her issues
                          with the College, and chose not to return. Less than a week after
                          school ended, we got a letter from the College telling us that our son
                          could not attend Highland Hall as punishment for our having violated
                          their communications protocol. We were warned that if they perceived we
                          were communicating inappropriately, our daughter would not be allowed to
                          attend Highland Hall. We responded with a three page letter asking for
                          the College to tell us exactly what we did wrong, when throughout the
                          entire process, various committee members had admitted they had made
                          significant mistakes, and thanked us for carefully following their
                          protocol, despite how painful the whole experience was for all
                          concerned. We never got a response to our letter. A few months later,
                          the President of the Board met with us and told us that he had received
                          a copy of our letter and felt it was well-written and clearly deserved a
                          response. Neither he nor {the head administrator} could explain why no
                          one answered us. This past Friday night, two years later, we finally
                          got a response. At nine o'clock, a messenger arrived at our house and
                          handed us a letter, so hastily typed it was not even on school
                          stationery. The letter stated we had ignored the warning that the
                          College had sent in 2004 and violated the communications protocol again.
                          Effective immediately, our daughter is expelled from the class and we
                          are not allowed on campus without a prearranged escort from {the head
                          administrator}.

                          Apparently there is a strong belief that we have somehow harmed
                          {Teacher2}. Without knowing exactly what we have been accused of doing
                          to her, we cannot defend or apologize for our alleged actions.

                          Whoever has decided that we have done something so inappropriate that
                          our child must be immediately removed from the classroom, has yet to
                          inform us of exactly how we were a danger to {Teacher2} or the
                          community. This time we have been accused of violating a communications
                          protocol regarding water bottles. We were not shown any incriminating
                          evidence, or given any proof of violating this protocol, and ultimately,
                          we have no opportunity to defend ourselves against what we feel is a
                          false accusation.

                          We have a paper trail of two years of communicating with appreciation,
                          respect and deep enthusiasm for {Teacher2}. There would be no reason
                          for us to make {Teacher2} feel threatened by our presence, or the
                          presence of our daughter in her classroom. And again, we have no idea
                          who has told her what piece of information to upset her so much that she
                          cannot tolerate our little girl being in her class for the remaining
                          five days of the school year. Because we had felt so close to
                          {Teacher2}, we have not a clue why, if she feels we have hurt her, she
                          wouldn't respect us enough to come to us directly to let us know, so we
                          might have a chance to clear up any kind of misunderstanding.

                          We can only guess that perhaps {Teacher2} is too exhausted, after an
                          extremely busy year, to be aware of the devastating impact on our child,
                          and the rest of her students. We sympathize with her exhaustion, but
                          then have to ask, who has advised {Teacher2} to do such a frighteningly
                          harsh thing to our daughter? How is it that the Leadership Team does
                          not need to present us with any scrap of evidence, nor did they offer to
                          bring us together with {Teacher2} and facilitate a conflict resolution
                          that would allow all of us to work towards a mutual understanding that,
                          according to the handbook, will "result in positive growth for the
                          individuals involved and for the school as a whole"?

                          If you attend this meeting on Monday, we hope someone will ask the
                          Leadership Team where is the evidence; and did you honestly give these
                          parents a chance to resolve whatever conflict has happened? Who is
                          supervising the Leadership Team to make sure they have followed some
                          kind of legitimate process that can warrant such harsh consequences for
                          an eight year old child?

                          Our family has invested in this school since 1994 - longer than many
                          people on the board, the faculty and the administration. About three
                          weeks ago, our daughter made a book that was all about {Teacher2},
                          complete with illustrations. {Teacher2} seemed so delighted that she
                          showed it to many colleagues and asked to borrow it for the weekend. A
                          month ago, we were profusely thanking {Teacher2} for an outstanding
                          evening presentation she gave to the parents. We felt genuinely
                          connected to her and inspired and grateful for her many efforts, and she
                          seemed sincerely touched by our enthusiastic response.

                          We simply do not know what has happened to change this relationship.
                          We have called {Teacher2} to ask for clarification, but have yet to
                          have our phone call returned.

                          If an anonymous person can secretly accuse our family of doing something
                          so terrible that it results in our innocent child being expelled, but we
                          don't even know what specifically is being said, or who said it - then
                          there is no way we can clear up any miscommunication.

                          Is it possible that there are people on the Leadership Team or the
                          Faculty or the Administration who still harboring resentment towards us
                          about issues involving ancient history - absolutely. When you have been
                          at this school as long as we have, it is inevitable that for every
                          friend you have made, there's at least one person you've unintentionally
                          offended, and at least two who have accidentally offended you.

                          It would be so much easier to believe we actually did something
                          terrible, because no intelligent person can accept such an irrational
                          action, especially when it is so deliberately devastating to a young
                          child. What kind of story will be told to the children to find a
                          wholesome way to explain this awful situation so that they won't be
                          frightened? If it can happen to their friend,who they know "has never
                          had her name on the board or been kicked out of class or caused any
                          problem", then how does the school reassure the other students and their
                          parents that this won't happen to them?

                          We came to this school because we believed that a Waldorf education was
                          the best way to nurture our children. We are leaving shocked, and
                          somewhat shattered, but still very grateful for all the wonderful
                          friends we have met. It is profoundly sad to know our child is not
                          entitled to properly say good-bye. She is worried that her friends will
                          think she has done something really bad. It is hard to believe that we
                          are not allowed to attend next week's graduation of so many children
                          we've known since Kindergarten, nor may we participate in any future
                          functions at a place where we spent so much energy building and
                          contributing to the welfare of the school. What we couldn't always give
                          in cash, we always gave in sweat equity and we got to know many
                          wonderful people in the process. Our oldest daughter, {Daughter1}, went
                          from Kindergarten through Eighth grade here. Just last week, {Teacher3}
                          was trying to help her find summer employment. {Daughter1} loved
                          attending the plays, concerts, fairs and assemblies and helped decorate
                          for the Father-Daughter dance, even though she is not enrolled here.
                          She has been looking forward to being in the audience when her friends
                          and former classmates will graduate next year. Now she can't step foot
                          on campus ever again and cannot understand how this could happen. We
                          have never heard of a community, other than perhaps extreme
                          fundamentalists, who would abruptly excommunicate an entire family based
                          on unsubstantiated hearsay.

                          Thank you to everyone who has called (you possibly violated the
                          communications protocol by doing so). We truly and deeply found so much
                          comfort in you reaching out to us. Without your kind words, this would
                          be almost unbearable.

                          Until our paths meet again, we wish you many blessings. Your friendship
                          will never be forgotten.


                          {Signatures of family}


                          ------------------------------

                          Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:07:28 +0000
                          From: Pete Karaiskos (pkcompany netzero.net)
                          Subject: RE: More Trouble Brewing at HH



                          Here's the original letter from Highland Hall that expelled the child
                          and family - again, after 12 years in the Highland Hall community and
                          over talking to another parent about an incident involving whether a
                          water bottle could be made available to their 8-year-old daughter for
                          drinking:



                          June 9, 2006



                          Dear {Parent1} and {Parent2},



                          This letter is to inform you that your family is being asked to leave
                          the school, effective immediatley, for failure to comply with the
                          conditions that were explicitly set forth in a letter sent to you in
                          june, 2004.



                          Enclosed please find a copy of the letter that the Highland Hall College
                          of Teacherts sent to you on Jun(sic) 24, 2004, where we delineated the
                          expectations you needed to meet in order to continue at Highland Hall.



                          In the past two weeks, you had an issue with Ms. {Teacher1} regarding
                          water bottles. Rather than following the communications priotocol
                          regarding your continued concerns and going to Mr. {Head Administrator}
                          or the Leadership Team, we have become aware that you have gone to other
                          parents instead. This breach of the communications protocol has not
                          shown the descrection and tactfulness we require of you. Your actions
                          have sought to undermine Ms {Teacher1}s authority, and are not
                          acceptable in our community. This has created a hostile environment that
                          cannot be allow to continue.



                          Please arrange tp pick up {Daughter}'s belongings after classes end Jun
                          16 by calling Mr. {Head Administrator}. He will schedule a specific time
                          when you can pick them up from the front office. We ask that you do not
                          come onto campus without a prearranged meeting time set with Mr. {Head
                          Administrator}. You may contact {Finance Officer} in the business office
                          to arrange for a refund of any funds that may be owed to you.



                          Sincerely,





                          {Teacher2}

                          The Leadreship Team

                          {Teacher3 - Apparently a teacher with an axe to grind who wanted to add
                          her name to this - not on the leadership or advisory or board or in any
                          way related to this issue but apparently representing}

                          The Class Teachers

                          {Teacher1}
                        • winters_diana
                          ... The communal washbowl would only be in the nursery and kindergarten, I think. I m pretty sure older children are allowed to use the bathrooms to wash. The
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jul 5, 2007
                            >(Do you remember a communal washbowl, Roger?)

                            >Don't think so. Our school was pretty well endowed: hot water, sinks,
                            >etc.

                            The communal washbowl would only be in the nursery and kindergarten, I
                            think. I'm pretty sure older children are allowed to use the bathrooms
                            to wash. The concern, as I understood it, in the kindergarten, was not
                            only the communal experience while washing hands (I guess washing your
                            hands by yourself is another thing that makes you self-conscious), but
                            also getting around the problem of the mirrors in the bathroom. Young
                            children are not supposed to look in mirrors, and there were mirrors in
                            the bathrooms. When a bathroom trip could not be avoided, we often
                            accompanied them to prevent them taking the time to look in the mirror.
                            We actually had stools for the younger children to reach the sinks,
                            which were too high, and they were not allowed to get the stools
                            themselves (which stood nearby, not a far distance, and they could
                            easily manage, but we didn't allow it) - all because that way we could
                            control how long they spent looking in the mirror.

                            Oh! That's it. Your school had a building that was actually built as a
                            Waldorf school - is that right? I bet the communal washbowl is used in
                            schools that are renting space, and cannot remove the mirrors in the
                            bathroom.

                            So that's my real question: were there mirrors in the bathroom, in the
                            lower grades or nursery?


                            >But I think I remember (don't hold me to this absolutely) that after
                            >taking showers (after gym classes), we shared towels.

                            I suppose I should be horrified, but having a teenage son, I do have to
                            wonder if they actually wanted you to share towels or if you just *did*
                            share towels, kind of not caring? My son, for instance, does not seem
                            able to distinguish between dirty and clean items such as towels,
                            socks, etc., regardless of where they are stashed (linen closet versus
                            dirty clothes hamper versus bedroom floor, makes no difference to him).

                            Diana
                          • winters_diana
                            ... to ... Yes, I think that s very pertinent. People often think we re making this stuff up, but believe me, this is so bizarre you *can t* make it up. You re
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jul 5, 2007
                              I wrote:

                              >Also, the kindergarten teachers consider it one of their main jobs
                              to
                              >orchestrate all these little routines.

                              Roger:

                              >There's a tremendous emphasis in Athroposophy and Waldorf on
                              >pattern. Everything has occult meaning. The teachers are supposed to
                              >be leading the kids through "the divine cosmic plan." Breaking up
                              >the patterns means violating the intentions of the gods. (!)

                              Yes, I think that's very pertinent. People often think we're making
                              this stuff up, but believe me, this is so bizarre you *can't* make it
                              up. You're very right, I hadn't thought of that. The girl who wanted
                              to get her own water bottle out of her own cubby was probably causing
                              a problem because not only are the routines sacred, the *path they
                              walk* itself often has some kind of occult purpose. For instance,
                              it's a bad thing for the etheric body, apparently, to walk in a
                              circle or loop. It's important when children take a walk that they go
                              a certain distance and then turn back, retracing their steps, not
                              making a loop.

                              So the course they walk when they leave to go to the playground, for
                              instance, and later return, come back in, probably change their
                              shoes, and maybe then get a drink of water and go to the rug for
                              circle or story time - if we could see this course charted out we
                              would likely see that when they get their drink of water, they're
                              completing a path like this that the teacher considers important. The
                              cubbies are on the other side of the room, and for the girl to leave
                              the group to cross the room breaks this important pattern. (Those
                              details are probably wrong - but it's likely something like this.
                              This is just one of many small fetishes the teacher is probably
                              imposing.)

                              (You can see why this does not make for flexible teachers.)
                              Diana
                            • winters_diana
                              ... Yep, that too. And one way to avoid systematized instruction is to make sure your instructions or routines don t require verbalization. This is achieved
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jul 5, 2007
                                Roger quoted Steiner:

                                >Before the change of teeth, human beings are, in a sense, focused on
                                >the past...Children live so much in the past and, in many respects,
                                >reveal, not the physical, but the prenatal, the spirit-soul past.
                                >After human beings have gone through the change of teeth, they
                                >actually live constantly in the present...Before puberty it is not
                                >wise to offer systematized instruction because children have a
                                >correct inner concept of truth only following puberty." - Rudolf
                                >Steiner, THE FOUNDATIONS OF HUMAN EXPERIENCE
                                >(Foundations of Waldorf Education, 1) (Great Barrington, MA:
                                >Anthroposophic Press, 1996),


                                Yep, that too.

                                And one way to avoid "systematized instruction" is to make sure your
                                instructions or routines don't require verbalization. This is
                                achieved by making sure everybody is doing the same thing at the same
                                time, in the same place, every day. Routines and rituals can be
                                learned by imitation and by the fact that everyone else is doing it.
                                This is ruined when one person wants or needs to do something that
                                the group is not doing - like get her water from a different kind of
                                container, in a different place in the room, from where the group,
                                the herd, normally gets a drink of water. (It's not surprising then
                                that that person has to be punished. It's actually nothing personal;
                                it's just how you enforce group behavior, when you can't use words -
                                you just throw out the person who won't get with the program -and
                                naturally without an explanation.)

                                Diana
                              • Roger Rawlings
                                ... GADZOOKS. My attempts to imagine what might have happened at Highland Hall pale beside the truth. Yet I implicitly believe Pete K s account. Secrecy and
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jul 6, 2007
                                  > ...girl who was expelled from Highland Hall five days before the end of the
                                  > semester because someone told someone else that one of her parents had
                                  > discussed an event

                                  >Amazing as
                                  > it seems, parents are not allowed to talk to each other about class
                                  > issues

                                  > Let everyone
                                  > who reads this know what lengths some Waldorf schools will go to in
                                  > order to quiet parents and avoid public scrutiny.

                                  >This time we have been accused of violating a communications
                                  > protocol regarding water bottles.


                                  GADZOOKS. My attempts to imagine what might have happened at Highland Hall pale
                                  beside the truth. Yet I implicitly believe Pete K's account. Secrecy and deceit are often
                                  deeply enmeshed in Waldorf practices. Steiner himself urged his teachers to dissemble
                                  (e.g., about morning prayers) and clam up (e.g., about his belief that there are people who
                                  are not human).

                                  My chief benefit to this list, if any, is that I've been able to report what I as a student saw,
                                  heard, and felt. But this also means I did not gain the perspective many other critics
                                  gained as parents. And I was not aware of some of the abuses that have been reported
                                  here and at PLANS: physical abuse, sexual abuse, sexual dalliances/affairs between faculty
                                  members or even between faculty and students, rules against parents discussing
                                  classroom matters with each other, etc. Indeed, perhaps some or all of these things were
                                  absent from my school. That such things occur in "spiritualistic" institutions is appalling.

                                  --Roger
                                • Roger Rawlings
                                  ... Yes. We had a financial angel (human, not from the cloudy beyond) who financed the construction of the school (perhaps with the aid of other
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jul 6, 2007
                                    >
                                    > Oh! That's it. Your school had a building that was actually built as a
                                    > Waldorf school - is that right? I bet the communal washbowl is used in
                                    > schools that are renting space, and cannot remove the mirrors in the
                                    > bathroom.
                                    >
                                    > So that's my real question: were there mirrors in the bathroom, in the
                                    > lower grades or nursery?
                                    >
                                    >


                                    Yes. We had a financial "angel" (human, not from the cloudy beyond) who financed the
                                    construction of the school (perhaps with the aid of other contributors). So it was always
                                    meant to be a Waldorf.

                                    I'm afraid I can't answer anything about the nursery school, since I entered the school in
                                    second grade. The first mirror I remember seeing at the school was in the restroom we
                                    used during fifth grade. I can't recall whether there were mirrors in the restrooms we used
                                    in earlier grades. Sorry.

                                    --Roger
                                  • Roger Rawlings
                                    ... Also, it presumably would be bad for a phlegmatic, let s say, to pass through the region of melancholics, etc. My point is that seating patterns arranged
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jul 6, 2007
                                      >. People often think we're making
                                      > this stuff up, but believe me, this is so bizarre you *can't* make it
                                      > up. You're very right, I hadn't thought of that. The girl who wanted
                                      > to get her own water bottle out of her own cubby was probably causing
                                      > a problem because not only are the routines sacred, the *path they
                                      > walk* itself often has some kind of occult purpose. For instance,
                                      > it's a bad thing for the etheric body, apparently, to walk in a
                                      > circle or loop. It's important when children take a walk that they go
                                      > a certain distance and then turn back, retracing their steps, not
                                      > making a loop.
                                      >
                                      > So the course they walk when they leave to go to the playground, for
                                      > instance, and later return, come back in, probably change their
                                      > shoes, and maybe then get a drink of water and go to the rug for
                                      > circle or story time - if we could see this course charted out we
                                      > would likely see that when they get their drink of water, they're
                                      > completing a path like this that the teacher considers important. The
                                      > cubbies are on the other side of the room, and for the girl to leave
                                      > the group to cross the room breaks this important pattern. (Those
                                      > details are probably wrong - but it's likely something like this.
                                      > This is just one of many small fetishes the teacher is probably
                                      > imposing.)
                                      >
                                      > (You can see why this does not make for flexible teachers.)
                                      > Diana
                                      >

                                      Also, it presumably would be bad for a phlegmatic, let's say, to pass through the region of
                                      melancholics, etc. My point is that seating patterns arranged in accordance with the four
                                      "temperaments" are usually considered quite important, so the second-grade girl would
                                      not just have been leaving "the group" but "her group."

                                      --Roger
                                    • Roger Rawlings
                                      ... Diana nails it again. Well done. I ve had people accuse me of making up horrible lies when, in fact, all I was doing was quoting Steiner or some other
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jul 6, 2007
                                        > People often think we're making
                                        > this stuff up, but believe me, this is so bizarre you *can't* make it
                                        > up.


                                        Diana nails it again. Well done. I've had people accuse me of making up horrible lies when, in
                                        fact, all I was doing was quoting Steiner or some other Anthroposophist. The "book-length"
                                        text on my Web site has 210 footnotes, almost all of which are references to
                                        Anthroposophical texts. My brain is too small and earthbound to have invented all the stuff
                                        Steiner (or, really, Blavatsky et al) posited.

                                        D'Oh.

                                        --Roger
                                      • winters_diana
                                        I asked about mirrors. ... Hm. Well, it would seem to fit, however, that you remember mirrors starting in fifth grade. If you were using a different bathroom
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Jul 6, 2007
                                          I asked about mirrors.

                                          Roger:
                                          >I'm afraid I can't answer anything about the nursery school, since I
                                          >entered the school in second grade. The first mirror I remember seeing
                                          >at the school was in the restroom we used during fifth grade. I can't
                                          >recall whether there were mirrors in the restrooms we used in earlier
                                          >grades. Sorry.

                                          Hm. Well, it would seem to fit, however, that you remember mirrors
                                          starting in fifth grade. If you were using a different bathroom before
                                          that, and the school was built as a Waldorf school, I'd be willing to
                                          bet that that earlier bathroom did not have mirrors. And that this is
                                          why you also do not remember a communal washbowl - there was no need to
                                          try to keep you out of the bathroom as much as possible.

                                          Diana
                                        • winters_diana
                                          ... pass through the region of melancholics, etc. My point is that seating patterns arranged in accordance with the four temperaments are usually
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Jul 6, 2007
                                            >Also, it presumably would be bad for a phlegmatic, let's say, to
                                            pass >through the region of melancholics, etc. My point is that
                                            seating >patterns arranged in accordance with the four "temperaments"
                                            are >usually considered quite important, so the second-grade girl
                                            would
                                            >not just have been leaving "the group" but "her group."


                                            There are lots of possibilities. The one I do *not* buy is that the
                                            teacher was concerned about keeping bugs out of the children's
                                            cubbies. They're famous for a *lack* of concern for sanitation, but
                                            that's the sort of fake normal excuse they'll come up with, they
                                            don't want to tell you the esoteric nonsense they're discussing
                                            privately.

                                            Like you, Roger, I've been accused of lying about this stuff many
                                            times now. Sometimes this comes from genuinely aghast, outraged
                                            Waldorf parents who find the stories so surreal that they assume I
                                            would *have* to be making them up. Other times the accusations of
                                            lying come from Waldorf teachers, who know full well that I'm not,
                                            but don't always realize at first that I can tell these stories
                                            because I heard discussions in faculty meetings about the "real,"
                                            esoteric reasons things were done, that parents shouldn't hear about.
                                            We were told not to mention anthroposophy in front of other parents
                                            because it "puts them off."

                                            Diana
                                          • Roger Rawlings
                                            ... [T]he western nations will not be able to understand what will arise out of the whole concrete Central European spiritual culture with regard to the art
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Jul 7, 2007
                                              --- In waldorf-critics@yahoogroups.com, "winters_diana" <diana.winters@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > >Also, it presumably would be bad for a phlegmatic, let's say, to
                                              > pass >through the region of melancholics, etc. My point is that
                                              > seating >patterns arranged in accordance with the four "temperaments"
                                              > are >usually considered quite important, so the second-grade girl
                                              > would
                                              > >not just have been leaving "the group" but "her group."
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > There are lots of possibilities. The one I do *not* buy is that the
                                              > teacher was concerned about keeping bugs out of the children's
                                              > cubbies. They're famous for a *lack* of concern for sanitation, but
                                              > that's the sort of fake normal excuse they'll come up with, they
                                              > don't want to tell you the esoteric nonsense they're discussing
                                              > privately.
                                              >
                                              > Like you, Roger, I've been accused of lying about this stuff many
                                              > times now. Sometimes this comes from genuinely aghast, outraged
                                              > Waldorf parents who find the stories so surreal that they assume I
                                              > would *have* to be making them up. Other times the accusations of
                                              > lying come from Waldorf teachers, who know full well that I'm not,
                                              > but don't always realize at first that I can tell these stories
                                              > because I heard discussions in faculty meetings about the "real,"
                                              > esoteric reasons things were done, that parents shouldn't hear about.
                                              > We were told not to mention anthroposophy in front of other parents
                                              > because it "puts them off."
                                              >
                                              > Diana
                                              >

                                              "[T]he western nations will not be able to understand what will arise out of the whole
                                              concrete Central European spiritual culture with regard to the art of education; on the
                                              contrary, it will annoy them, and it really ought not to be told them in its original form. It
                                              could have an undesirable effect on them." [Steiner, quoted by John Fentress Gardner, "The
                                              Founding of Adelphi's Waldorf School," ONE MAN'S VISION: IN MEMORIAM, H.A.W. MYRIN
                                              (New York: The Myrin Institute Inc., 1970), p. 46.]

                                              --Roger the Liar
                                            • Roger Rawlings
                                              In re mirrors: Look for Education for Adolescents: Eight Lectures Given to the Teachers of the Stuttgart Waldorf School ... - Page 129 by Rudolf Steiner -
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Jul 7, 2007
                                                In re mirrors: Look for "Education for Adolescents: Eight Lectures Given to the Teachers of the
                                                Stuttgart Waldorf School ..." - Page 129
                                                by Rudolf Steiner - 1996

                                                "But a child at the characterized age looking at his or her reflection would be
                                                tempted to transform his or her previous way of feeling, to become vain and coquettish..."

                                                You can get there via Google Book Search. (Hint: Monkeys do better with mirrors than kids
                                                do.)

                                                --Roger the Vain (whose favorite king is Ethelred the Unready)
                                              • emanuel
                                                ... Url wrapped, try this one instead: http://surl.se/bugj cheers!
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Jul 8, 2007
                                                  On Sat, 2007-07-07 at 19:53 +0000, Roger Rawlings wrote:
                                                  > --- In waldorf-critics@yahoogroups.com, "winters_diana" <diana.winters@...> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I asked about mirrors.
                                                  > >
                                                  > Try this:
                                                  >
                                                  > http://books.google.com/books?
                                                  > id=YzRysQJeKmwC&pg=PA129&ots=X0hGlJkoZc&dq=mirror+child+inauthor:rudolf
                                                  > +inauthor:steiner&sig=4_jCelvjyGpajgnGBs11AZy2ef8#PPA129,M1
                                                  >
                                                  > (Summary: A monkey who looks in a mirror will not be damaged. A child however may
                                                  > become vain or coquettish.)
                                                  >
                                                  > --Roger

                                                  Url wrapped, try this one instead:

                                                  http://surl.se/bugj

                                                  cheers!
                                                • Os Wilkes
                                                  ... Interesting post, Roger. Especially when you said that at Waldorf nothing is as it seems . Has anybody covered the concept that swapping spit (or
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Jul 9, 2007
                                                    >Posted by: "Roger Rawlings" downfromfog@...   downfromfog
                                                    >
                                                    > Thu Jul 5, 2007 7:32 am (PST)
                                                    > Returning to the ostensible subject: water. Remember that at Waldorf
                                                    >nothing is as it seems.
                                                    >
                                                    > "Outwardly, water is maya, and it would not exist in the world were it
                                                    >not for
                                                    > its spiritual foundation in renunciation or resignation."
                                                    >
                                                    > Rudolf Steiner, "The Spiritual Hierarchies and the Physical World:
                                                    >Reality and Illusion", Steiner
                                                    > Books, 1996, p. 207, ISBN 0880104406
                                                    >
                                                    > I'll drink to that.
                                                    >
                                                    > --Roger

                                                    Interesting post, Roger. Especially when you said that "at Waldorf
                                                    nothing is as it seems".

                                                    Has anybody covered the concept that "swapping spit" (or bodily fluids of
                                                    any kind) is practiced in "sympathetic magick"? Drinking from communal
                                                    cups could be considered a form of communion wherein one person's
                                                    substance is transferred to the others through the powerful medium of
                                                    water, and therefore a spiritual bond is formed. As a person somewhat
                                                    versed in occult practices, this is an obvious connection *to me*. To
                                                    me, it is just as clear as the much touted "pubic hair" on the Clarence
                                                    Thomas' coke. Not that I believe a pubic hair was ever put in that
                                                    particular coke, but that the accusation as leveled was in reference to
                                                    practicing a form of magick (aka "hoodoo").

                                                    This connection will not be apparent to those who do not have a
                                                    background practicing (or an interest in studying) sympathetic magick- a
                                                    set which probably includes most Waldorf parents.

                                                    This connection also seems to elude those who purchase CSA products from
                                                    biodynamic farms, a mistake I made in the past. I did not assume that
                                                    sympathetic magick was being used against the people who were consuming
                                                    these products, but it was.

                                                    I think it might be an uphill battle to find any R.S. reference to these
                                                    tactics in his writings, which were designed to DECEIVE the readers from
                                                    what appears to be his true purpose of practicing black magick and
                                                    gaining power and dominion over groups of unwitting people.


                                                    Love,

                                                    Os
                                                  • Roger Rawlings
                                                    I m at a disadvantage, here. I don t believe in magic (except in a young girl s smile—i.e., I believe in the magic of rock n roll). But surely I jest.
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Jul 9, 2007
                                                      I'm at a disadvantage, here. I don't believe in magic (except in a young girl's smile—i.e., I
                                                      believe in the magic of rock 'n' roll). But surely I jest.

                                                      --Roger (I Coulda Been a Beatle) Rawlings (or a Cricket, anyway)



                                                      --- In waldorf-critics@yahoogroups.com, "Os Wilkes" <oswilkes@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > >Posted by: "Roger Rawlings" downfromfog@...   downfromfog
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Thu Jul 5, 2007 7:32 am (PST)
                                                      > > Returning to the ostensible subject: water. Remember that at Waldorf
                                                      > >nothing is as it seems.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > "Outwardly, water is maya, and it would not exist in the world were it
                                                      > >not for
                                                      > > its spiritual foundation in renunciation or resignation."
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Rudolf Steiner, "The Spiritual Hierarchies and the Physical World:
                                                      > >Reality and Illusion", Steiner
                                                      > > Books, 1996, p. 207, ISBN 0880104406
                                                      > >
                                                      > > I'll drink to that.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > --Roger
                                                      >
                                                      > Interesting post, Roger. Especially when you said that "at Waldorf
                                                      > nothing is as it seems".
                                                      >
                                                      > Has anybody covered the concept that "swapping spit" (or bodily fluids of
                                                      > any kind) is practiced in "sympathetic magick"? Drinking from communal
                                                      > cups could be considered a form of communion wherein one person's
                                                      > substance is transferred to the others through the powerful medium of
                                                      > water, and therefore a spiritual bond is formed. As a person somewhat
                                                      > versed in occult practices, this is an obvious connection *to me*. To
                                                      > me, it is just as clear as the much touted "pubic hair" on the Clarence
                                                      > Thomas' coke. Not that I believe a pubic hair was ever put in that
                                                      > particular coke, but that the accusation as leveled was in reference to
                                                      > practicing a form of magick (aka "hoodoo").
                                                      >
                                                      > This connection will not be apparent to those who do not have a
                                                      > background practicing (or an interest in studying) sympathetic magick- a
                                                      > set which probably includes most Waldorf parents.
                                                      >
                                                      > This connection also seems to elude those who purchase CSA products from
                                                      > biodynamic farms, a mistake I made in the past. I did not assume that
                                                      > sympathetic magick was being used against the people who were consuming
                                                      > these products, but it was.
                                                      >
                                                      > I think it might be an uphill battle to find any R.S. reference to these
                                                      > tactics in his writings, which were designed to DECEIVE the readers from
                                                      > what appears to be his true purpose of practicing black magick and
                                                      > gaining power and dominion over groups of unwitting people.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Love,
                                                      >
                                                      > Os
                                                      >
                                                    • Dan Dugan
                                                      Os Wilkes, you wrote, ... Interesting! ... Of course. ... Please explain. ... I ve seen no reason not to believe Steiner s assertion that Anthroposophists
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Jul 9, 2007
                                                        Os Wilkes, you wrote,

                                                        >Has anybody covered the concept that "swapping spit" (or bodily fluids of
                                                        >any kind) is practiced in "sympathetic magick"? Drinking from communal
                                                        >cups could be considered a form of communion wherein one person's
                                                        >substance is transferred to the others through the powerful medium of
                                                        >water, and therefore a spiritual bond is formed. As a person somewhat
                                                        >versed in occult practices, this is an obvious connection *to me*. To
                                                        >me, it is just as clear as the much touted "pubic hair" on the Clarence
                                                        >Thomas' coke. Not that I believe a pubic hair was ever put in that
                                                        >particular coke, but that the accusation as leveled was in reference to
                                                        >practicing a form of magick (aka "hoodoo").

                                                        Interesting!

                                                        >This connection will not be apparent to those who do not have a
                                                        >background practicing (or an interest in studying) sympathetic magick- a
                                                        >set which probably includes most Waldorf parents.

                                                        Of course.

                                                        >This connection also seems to elude those who purchase CSA products from
                                                        >biodynamic farms, a mistake I made in the past. I did not assume that
                                                        >sympathetic magick was being used against the people who were consuming
                                                        >these products, but it was.

                                                        Please explain.

                                                        >I think it might be an uphill battle to find any R.S. reference to these
                                                        >tactics in his writings, which were designed to DECEIVE the readers from
                                                        >what appears to be his true purpose of practicing black magick and
                                                        >gaining power and dominion over groups of unwitting people.

                                                        I've seen no reason not to believe Steiner's assertion that
                                                        Anthroposophists practice "white magic," (good intentions and
                                                        self-improvement) and oppose "black magic" (power and manipulation).

                                                        -Dan Dugan
                                                      • Roger Rawlings
                                                        ... Let s get real. Black magic is the conscious use of chemical emanations for degenerate purposes. Life emanations can be used for good by the Moon
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Jul 10, 2007
                                                          > >This connection also seems to elude those who purchase CSA products from
                                                          > >biodynamic farms, a mistake I made in the past. I did not assume that
                                                          > >sympathetic magick was being used against the people who were consuming
                                                          > >these products, but it was.
                                                          >


                                                          Let's get real.

                                                          "Black magic is the conscious use of chemical emanations for degenerate purposes. Life
                                                          emanations can be used for good by the Moon Beings..."

                                                          "...preparations must be used in order to evoke the forces inherent in the light and warmth
                                                          ethers. This leads to black magic which makes use of the Moon forces ..."

                                                          --R. Steiner, True and False Paths in Spiritual Investigation, 2003,Kessinger Publishing, ISBN
                                                          0766144615
                                                        • Os Wilkes
                                                          ... Dear Dan, Sorry this took so long to respond to. I supported CSA for a while. I bought a costly membership share in a bio-dynamic farm. I was NOT TOLD
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Jul 20, 2007
                                                            Dan Dugan wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            >Please explain.
                                                            >
                                                            >>I think it might be an uphill battle to find any R.S. reference to these
                                                            >>tactics in his writings, which were designed to DECEIVE the readers from
                                                            >>what appears to be his true purpose of practicing black magick and
                                                            >>gaining power and dominion over groups of unwitting people.

                                                            Dear Dan,

                                                            Sorry this took so long to respond to.

                                                            I supported CSA for a while. I bought a costly "membership share" in a
                                                            bio-dynamic farm. I was NOT TOLD that magick was used in the growing of
                                                            vegetables, including the magick of imbuing those vegetables with
                                                            intention. Rudolf Steiner's name was NOT mentioned. I would pick up
                                                            these stunted, buggy veggies bi-monthly at the Waldorf School in
                                                            Pasadena, a cold and foreboding place. I didn't know any better. The
                                                            ladies distributing it all work cotton or linnen long dresses and looked
                                                            like they were straight out of "Little House on the Prairie". They
                                                            smiled a lot, and were flattering, and as much as I didn't like the
                                                            premises, the ladies seemed OK. Still, I had a bad feeling visiting
                                                            there and I never knew why until I met Keith and found out about
                                                            Anthroposophy. I was being fooled into participating in Anthroposophy
                                                            when I bought my share in that farm and ate their veggies.

                                                            Now, biodynamic farming uses ritual magick to put the energy the
                                                            practitioner chooses into the vegetables. This is putting INTENTION into
                                                            them- not just the intention to grow- growing is natural and no rituals
                                                            are needed to make that happen. What they are putting into these
                                                            vegetables is the energy of R. S.

                                                            They sell these vegetables in a dishonest manner and do not discuss the
                                                            magick they use in their production. People eat these vegetables, not
                                                            knowing that they have been imbued with intention. The theory is that
                                                            when you eat the vegetables, the intention goes into you and you are
                                                            remotely controlled in accordance with the intention. That intention is
                                                            mastery and domination. Clearly, one could approach people with the
                                                            truth about Anthroposophy and ask them to choose instead of cramming it
                                                            down their throats. Anthroposophy does NOT BELIEVE that all people are
                                                            wise enough to choose their own religion but must be FORCE FED Anthroposophy.

                                                            THIS IS BLACK MAGICK AS IT IS DECEPTIVE AND RELIEVES THE END USER OF FREE
                                                            CHOICE AS THE PRACTITIONER **FURTHERS HIS OWN HIDDEN AGENDA**.

                                                            WHITE MAGICK IS HONEST AND RESPECTFUL OF THE FREEDOM OF ALL PARTICIPANTS
                                                            TO CHOOSE AND IS ABOUT **FURTHERING COMMON GOALS**.

                                                            When I bought the expensive MEMBERSHIP SHARE of this farm-

                                                            I was given the culls instead of good veggies-

                                                            These culls were imbued with intention unbeknownst to me-

                                                            I didn't know I was financially supporting and literally practicing
                                                            Anthroposophy (which I would never support without my knowledge)-

                                                            I WAS RAPED THREE TIMES!!!!!

                                                            This is like Waldorf in that Waldorf parents do not know that they are
                                                            paying for their kids to go to a religious indoctrination and that
                                                            principals of black magick (surreptitious trance induction, for one) are
                                                            being used on them.

                                                            Does sympathetic magick work? There is a lot of speculation about that.
                                                            There is a theory that it only works if the target is aware that it is
                                                            being used. This is not really the point though. The point I am making
                                                            is that *Anthroposophy believes it works*, and that is why they do it.

                                                            Yes, they clearly want every child to use clay (earth- not plastic) cups
                                                            with blessed water to swap spit together (like blood brothers) and bond
                                                            with as much natural force as possible. Getting all four elements and
                                                            directions and colours etc. into your workings is a good idea too, so
                                                            they probably burn candles or light incense at some point, I would guess.

                                                            Does surreptitious trance induction work? Hypnosis works, and that is
                                                            what they do in Waldorf schools to people's kids when they make them
                                                            stare at tree roots until they see little men who aren't there. Because
                                                            they raise the expectation of seeing Anthroposophy's elementals and
                                                            spirits, the children are literally being hypnoprogrammed to become part
                                                            of R. S.'s reality adding power to his movement. If they did not raise
                                                            expectations to see anything, kids would see nothing or all kinds of
                                                            things doing that. Nevertheless, children should not be induced into any
                                                            practice of magick white or black without the parents knowledge and
                                                            without being informed. THIS IS PSYCHIC RAPE for the benefit of
                                                            Anthroposophy. It's like fooling an innocent kid into sexual activity he
                                                            or she doesn't understand.

                                                            Waldorf MUST BE STOPPED.

                                                            I think a call in to the local health department would nip the problem of
                                                            communion in the bud. All one needs to do is raise the spectres of
                                                            bacterial meningitis, colds, hepatitis of several varieties, herpes
                                                            simplex and other hazards. Children should NEVER drink from any vessels
                                                            shared by other children in any public place that haven't been thoroughly
                                                            washed in between with hot soapy water and dried with clean paper
                                                            toweling and this is obviously impractical. It is safe only for children
                                                            to drink from their own containers. Even I don't drink from public water
                                                            fountains but these are safer than shared cups. Any school that fosters
                                                            a public health hazard should be shut down. It is against the law to
                                                            PURPOSEFULLY endanger children.

                                                            Love,

                                                            Os
                                                          • Os Wilkes
                                                            ... Dear Dan, I am not exactly with it . I quoted the wrong part of your message in my last post. The correct quote to which I was responding is: ... Love,
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Jul 20, 2007
                                                              >Dan Dugan wrote:
                                                              >>
                                                              >>Please explain.
                                                              >>
                                                              >>>I think it might be an uphill battle to find any R.S. reference to these
                                                              >>>tactics in his writings, which were designed to DECEIVE the readers from
                                                              >>>what appears to be his true purpose of practicing black magick and
                                                              >>>gaining power and dominion over groups of unwitting people.
                                                              >
                                                              >Dear Dan,
                                                              >
                                                              >Sorry this took so long to respond to.

                                                              Dear Dan,

                                                              I am not exactly "with it". I quoted the wrong part of your message in
                                                              my last post. The correct quote to which I was responding is:

                                                              Dan Dugan wrote:

                                                              > >This connection also seems to elude those who purchase CSA products from
                                                              > >biodynamic farms, a mistake I made in the past. I did not assume that
                                                              > >sympathetic magick was being used against the people who were consuming
                                                              > >these products, but it was.
                                                              >
                                                              > Please explain.

                                                              Love,

                                                              Os
                                                            • Dan Dugan
                                                              ... Fooled into supporting it, not really participating. ... My understanding is their intention is to attract spiritual forces to produce healthful food. ...
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Jul 23, 2007
                                                                Dan Dugan:
                                                                > >Please explain.

                                                                Os Wilkes:
                                                                >I supported CSA for a while. I bought a costly "membership share" in a
                                                                >bio-dynamic farm. I was NOT TOLD that magick was used in the growing of
                                                                >vegetables, including the magick of imbuing those vegetables with
                                                                >intention. Rudolf Steiner's name was NOT mentioned. I would pick up
                                                                >these stunted, buggy veggies bi-monthly at the Waldorf School in
                                                                >Pasadena, a cold and foreboding place. I didn't know any better. The
                                                                >ladies distributing it all work cotton or linnen long dresses and looked
                                                                >like they were straight out of "Little House on the Prairie". They
                                                                >smiled a lot, and were flattering, and as much as I didn't like the
                                                                >premises, the ladies seemed OK. Still, I had a bad feeling visiting
                                                                >there and I never knew why until I met Keith and found out about
                                                                >Anthroposophy. I was being fooled into participating in Anthroposophy
                                                                >when I bought my share in that farm and ate their veggies.

                                                                Fooled into supporting it, not really participating.

                                                                >Now, biodynamic farming uses ritual magick to put the energy the
                                                                >practitioner chooses into the vegetables. This is putting INTENTION into
                                                                >them- not just the intention to grow- growing is natural and no rituals
                                                                >are needed to make that happen. What they are putting into these
                                                                >vegetables is the energy of R. S.

                                                                My understanding is their intention is to attract spiritual forces to
                                                                produce healthful food.

                                                                >They sell these vegetables in a dishonest manner and do not discuss the
                                                                >magick they use in their production. People eat these vegetables, not
                                                                >knowing that they have been imbued with intention. The theory is that
                                                                >when you eat the vegetables, the intention goes into you and you are
                                                                >remotely controlled in accordance with the intention. That intention is
                                                                >mastery and domination.

                                                                Really? I've never heard that. Well, ok, mastery and domination in a
                                                                future epoch, but that has little to do with vegetables.

                                                                >Clearly, one could approach people with the
                                                                >truth about Anthroposophy and ask them to choose instead of cramming it
                                                                >down their throats. Anthroposophy does NOT BELIEVE that all people are
                                                                >wise enough to choose their own religion but must be FORCE FED Anthroposophy.
                                                                >
                                                                >THIS IS BLACK MAGICK AS IT IS DECEPTIVE AND RELIEVES THE END USER OF FREE
                                                                >CHOICE AS THE PRACTITIONER **FURTHERS HIS OWN HIDDEN AGENDA**.
                                                                >
                                                                >WHITE MAGICK IS HONEST AND RESPECTFUL OF THE FREEDOM OF ALL PARTICIPANTS
                                                                >TO CHOOSE AND IS ABOUT **FURTHERING COMMON GOALS**.
                                                                >
                                                                >When I bought the expensive MEMBERSHIP SHARE of this farm-
                                                                >
                                                                >I was given the culls instead of good veggies-
                                                                >
                                                                >These culls were imbued with intention unbeknownst to me-

                                                                I don't think that made any difference to anyone except the Anthroposophists.

                                                                >I didn't know I was financially supporting and literally practicing
                                                                >Anthroposophy (which I would never support without my knowledge)-
                                                                >
                                                                >I WAS RAPED THREE TIMES!!!!!

                                                                A bit over-dramatic, I think. Cheated, at most.

                                                                >This is like Waldorf in that Waldorf parents do not know that they are
                                                                >paying for their kids to go to a religious indoctrination and that
                                                                >principals of black magick (surreptitious trance induction, for one) are
                                                                >being used on them.
                                                                >
                                                                >Does sympathetic magick work? There is a lot of speculation about that.
                                                                > There is a theory that it only works if the target is aware that it is
                                                                >being used. This is not really the point though. The point I am making
                                                                >is that *Anthroposophy believes it works*, and that is why they do it.

                                                                Exactly, but what they believe doesn't affect you, except in your
                                                                relationship with them.

                                                                >Yes, they clearly want every child to use clay (earth- not plastic) cups
                                                                >with blessed water to swap spit together (like blood brothers) and bond
                                                                >with as much natural force as possible. Getting all four elements and
                                                                >directions and colours etc. into your workings is a good idea too, so
                                                                >they probably burn candles or light incense at some point, I would guess.

                                                                You're right about that!

                                                                >Does surreptitious trance induction work? Hypnosis works, and that is
                                                                >what they do in Waldorf schools to people's kids when they make them
                                                                >stare at tree roots until they see little men who aren't there. Because
                                                                >they raise the expectation of seeing Anthroposophy's elementals and
                                                                >spirits, the children are literally being hypnoprogrammed to become part
                                                                >of R. S.'s reality adding power to his movement. If they did not raise
                                                                >expectations to see anything, kids would see nothing or all kinds of
                                                                >things doing that. Nevertheless, children should not be induced into any
                                                                >practice of magick white or black without the parents knowledge and
                                                                >without being informed.

                                                                Agreed.

                                                                >THIS IS PSYCHIC RAPE for the benefit of
                                                                >Anthroposophy. It's like fooling an innocent kid into sexual activity he
                                                                >or she doesn't understand.

                                                                In my opinion, actions should be judged by their consequences, not by
                                                                what we imagine the actor's intentions intentions to be.

                                                                >Waldorf MUST BE STOPPED.

                                                                I'd like them to shape up a bit.

                                                                >I think a call in to the local health department would nip the problem of
                                                                >communion in the bud. All one needs to do is raise the spectres of
                                                                >bacterial meningitis, colds, hepatitis of several varieties, herpes
                                                                >simplex and other hazards. Children should NEVER drink from any vessels
                                                                >shared by other children in any public place that haven't been thoroughly
                                                                >washed in between with hot soapy water and dried with clean paper
                                                                >toweling and this is obviously impractical. It is safe only for children
                                                                >to drink from their own containers. Even I don't drink from public water
                                                                >fountains but these are safer than shared cups. Any school that fosters
                                                                >a public health hazard should be shut down. It is against the law to
                                                                >PURPOSEFULLY endanger children.

                                                                Agreed, except that I don't think their purpose is to endanger them.
                                                                That's an unintended consequence of their ignorance.

                                                                -Dan Dugan
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