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8893[wc] Re: Diana, please no waffling on atheism!

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  • tmasthenes13
    Feb 2, 2009
      --- In waldorf-critics@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Winters"
      <diana.winters@...> wrote:
      > Frank to me:
      > >Either way, it's a good answer, Diana, because it indicates that you
      > >are not really an atheist. An Atheist is someone who denies the
      > >existence of God ("God" being a divine or spiritual intelligence). But
      > >someone who doesn't know is an agnostic - which is truly a step in the
      > >right direction. Ah, you'll think, but all I said was that I don't
      > >know the *meaning* of life. But an atheist would have to say that
      > >there is no meaning - like Zooey seems to think. Because if there is
      > >no intelligent creative force behind it there can be no meaning. So
      > >you should reprint your calling card: "Diana Winters - agnostic".
      > >You'll feel better.
      > >Frank
      > >P.S. The Grateful Dead are also agnostic.
      > Frank, the whole business of posing challenges to atheists to
      "define the
      > meaning of life" etc is what interests me. "Agnostic" is fine with
      me; I've
      > sort of waffled on "agnostic" versus "atheist" myself and eventually
      > I couldn't get interested enough in the distinction to worry it to
      > Definitely, "agnostic" is more accurate for me personally as it implies
      > uncertainty (but thanks for condescending to define simple terms for


      Please do not waffle on being an atheist! If you move into the realm
      of uncertainty as an agnostic, you then may forfeit your privileged
      status among anthroposophists as a poor, victimized soul needed to be
      healed from your disease of atheism. Indeed rather than have them as
      now tripping over themselves trying to heal your disease, if you go
      agnostic, you might fall off their radar screen.

      Please allow Father Tom, the great new "World Teacher," re-pontificate
      about Rudolf Steiner's declarations that atheism is a disease. You
      see, Lady Diana, waffling on atheism may downgrade your "disease"
      status into the relatively more banal category of mere "misfortune"
      However, there may be an outside chance that you could be downgraded
      further to the other Karmic-victim category of "feeble-mindedness,"
      --- a sure ticket to Camphill, if you can afford it. In that case,
      your condition would re-awaken another nexus of patronizing,
      condescending attitudes of karmic superiority over you --- but at
      least you would be blipping back on their karmic radar screens.

      Now before I get to the re-citation of the appropriate Steiner
      passages, I would like to make one further observation and raise a
      somewhat rhetorical question for all of us to answer.

      I surmise rather confidently that the predominant race of all the
      people involved in this discussion is that of the Caucasian Jupiter
      Race --- we who, according to Rudolf Steiner, exhibit our spiritual
      superiority through the very "golden whiteness" of skin which not only
      demonstrates our spiritual superiority over the lesser spiritually
      endowed races, but more importantly (and let us heed Frank's call for
      humility here), demands our sense of "noblesse oblige," or the
      magnanimous compassion we need to show to those lesser races. The
      19th C. British colonialists had a wonderful saying for it. "We must
      carry the white man's burden."

      However, the discussion here is not inter-racial, but rather
      intra-racial. This is as it were, a family squabble among us superior
      Jupiter Race people.

      Therefore I raise this vexing question. Who would be more difficult
      to redeem, i.e. which of the following two people would be more of a
      spiritual burden for the race that must carry such burdens:

      A Caucasian Atheist? Or, a Negro Christian?

      With that question in mind, let us proceed to the Steiner documentation.
      Back last summer in August, I confronted dear Zooey of the Jupiter
      Race with the dire diagnosis of her dire disease of atheism.

      I'll now repost the latter section of that diagnosis below:


      "Now, Zooey, on to the lecture and your diagnosis --- and of course
      your eventual healing.

      Die Sendung Michaels
      Die Offenbarung der eigentlichen Geheimnisse des Menschenwesens
      12 Vorträge, gehalten in Dornach vom 2l. November bis 15.Dezember 1919
      GA 194
      The Mission of [the Archangel] Michael
      The Revelation of the Authentic Secrets of the [Inner] Human Being
      12 Lectures held in Dornach from Nov. 21 until Dec. 15, 1919. GA 194
      Lecture 4, given November 28, 1919, is called "The Culture of the
      Mysteries and the Michael Impulse. Self-knowledge and its Permeation
      of the Three Strata of Consciousness"


      "If we . . . then look upon the appearance of atheism, upon the
      complete denial of the Divine, we shall find the reason for this
      atheism. Only those human beings, my dear friends — naturally, we need
      the methods of spiritual science in order to recognize this — only
      those human beings are atheists in whose organism something is
      organically disturbed. To be sure, this may lie in very delicate
      structural conditions, but it is a fact that atheism is in reality a

      This is the first thing we have to hold fast: atheism is a disease.
      For, if our organism is completely healthy, the harmonious functioning
      of its various members will bring it about that we ourselves sense our
      origin from the Divine — ex Deo nascimur.


      Not to find God the Father is a disease; not to find the Christ is a
      misfortune. For the human being is so connected with the Christ as to
      be inwardly dependent upon this connection. He is, however, also
      dependent upon that which has taken place as a historical event. He
      must find a connection with the Christ here upon earth, in external
      life. If he does not find it, it is a misfortune. Not to find the
      Father God, to be an atheist, is an illness. Not to find the Son God,
      the Christ, is a misfortune.

      And what does it mean if we do not find the Spirit? To be unable to
      take hold of one's own spirituality in order to find the connection of
      one's own spirituality with the spirituality of the world signifies
      mental debility; not to acknowledge the Spirit is a deficiency of
      mind, a psychic imbecility.

      Please remember these three deficiencies of the human soul
      constitution. Then we shall be able to continue tomorrow in the right
      way. Remember what I have told you today about the three kinds of
      consciousness; remember that

      [1] it is a disease if we are an atheist, if we do not find the God
      out of whom we are born and whom we must find if we possess a
      completely sound organism; [ex deo nascimur]

      [2] that it is a misfortune if we do not find the Christ; [in Christo

      [3] that it is a psychic deficiency if we do not find the Spirit."
      [per Spiritum Sanctum reviviscimus.]


      OK, first let me provide here several of the German words that Steiner
      used in the above lecture to flesh out the limited meanings of the
      single words used in the translated text.

      [1] Atheism – denying God the Father –Unconscious Willing ---- a
      disease ----
      German: „die Krankheit" = sickness, disease, ailment, malady, medical
      [2] Anti-Christian – denying Christ the Son as God -- a misfortune ----
      German "das Unglueck" = calamity, catastrophe, disaster, mishap,
      misery, bad luck, accident, sorrow.
      [3] Anti-Spiritual – denying the Holy Spirit --- a mental deficiency,
      dare I say: stupidity? ----
      German: "der Schwachsinn" = mental deficiency, feeblemindedness,
      idiocy, cretinism, dementia, being a moron, stupidity, bunkum, bullshit

      Now even though I've managed to avoid too much digression, I will end
      here because this is becoming a rather long post. But then again, no
      post is long enough if it can lead to the diagnosis and healing of
      Zooey's woebegone malady of atheism.

      Let me sign off here, Zooey, by telling you that I have great
      confidence in and optimism about your eventual cure and recovery
      because you do love dogs and "dog" spelled backwards, at least in
      English, is "God."

      -----Father Tom Mellett Judas Priest,
      Himself now preaching the "New Gospel of Christian Atheism" in Van
      Nuys, CA, as inspired by famous "Death of God Theologian" in the
      1960's by the name of Thomas J. J. Altizer, then of Emory University
      in Atlanta.

      (see Google book here if curious http://tinyurl.com/7bt7vb

      However, Altizer believes the greatest accomplishment of his life was
      to nurture the philosopher/theologian whom I have connected with
      David G. Leahy here: http://dgleahy.com/

      Hey Frank,
      You'll like Leahy. He was born in 1937 in Brooklyn. He now heads the
      New York Philosophy Corporation.
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