[wadokarate] Re: wadokarate digest
I was in the WKC Championship last weekend in British Columbia. It was a
very big and nice tournament. But it's not the reason why i write you. I'm a
6 degree black belt in the Shintani Wado-Kai Karate Federation. I practice
karate close 28 years now. In the tournament in British Columbia, the
president of Wado-Kai Canada , Dr Leslie Bowers, Shian Greg Reid Hachidan
told me that the krate will be in the olympic 2004 in Greece. They told me
also, that it will be karate in the Olympic and no style will command this
championship. Everybody could do the kata of his choice (that's mean A guy
of Wado could do a kata of Goju). The problem is for me the WKF (who run the
karate in the Olympic), i think that they will chose JKF Wado-Kai katas for
All Wado karateka. I practice karate under Masaru Shintani sensei who was a
direct student of Otsuka sensei. And he teached me the katas like he learn
it with Otsuka Sensei, that's mean the old way. I know that the JKF Wado-Kai
change all the katas a lot. I'd like to know if someone know, how i could
have a video tape of the JKF Wado-Kai katas. I try to communicate with them
but you know, politic again (they don't answer me).
Roger St-Arneault (Rokudan)6e Dan
De: eGroups Digest [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
Date: 11 novembre, 1999 22:49
Objet: wadokarate digest
eGroups Daily Digest: wadokarate has 9 new messages.
Click here http://www.eGroups.com/list/wadokarate/?start=15 to read them.
015. sensei@... Wado Forum
016. St-Arneault, Roger TR: Welcome to a New Wado Discussion Forum
017. JACKSON RYAN Wado Karate
018. wado_dave@... Re: Wado Karate
019. John Dodd Re: kata syllabus, dan requirements
020. wado_dave@... Re: dan requirements-running
021. Leonidas Papakonstantinou Wado Ryu
022. rnash@... Hakoishi and Suparinpei
023. Tokai Dojo No Subject
------------------------------ message 015 ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 02:50:12 -0800
Subject: [wadokarate] Wado Forum
Looks like this idea is good if it brings together lots of karateka who
enjoy Wado Ryu.I hope it goes from strength to strength.Trev Seddon
------------------------------ message 016 ------------------------------
From: "St-Arneault, Roger" <rstarneault@...>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:45:52 -0500
Subject: [wadokarate] TR: Welcome to a New Wado Discussion Forum
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
my name is Roger St-Arneault. I think that you have a very nice idea =
this forum. So i'm interest to be in the dicussion of Wado. Let me know =
the information about it.
Sorry about my english, i'm french. I speak english but sometimes my
sentences are'nt correct, but for this forum i won't think it will be a
Roger St-Arneault 6e Dan=20
http://www.lino.com/~karate <http://www.lino.com/~karate> =20
De: Dave Taylor [mailto:davidwtaylor@...]=20
Date: 7 novembre, 1999 18:17
=C0: "A. Ross Keele"; "Adam Flint"; "Andrea Collis"; "Andreas =
"Barbara"; "Benny Baggott"; "Bill Taylor"; "Billy Woolfolk"; "Caroline
McGee"; "Chris Howland "; "Conrad Jones"; "Craig Peter Jacobson"; =
Gilday "; "Dan Wallis"; "Daniel Williams"; "Danielo Di Feola"; "Danny
Chapman"; "Danny Spits"; "Dave Bockus"; "David Button"; "Deborah Bell =
"Denise Ashley"; "Dennis D. Labbe "; "Dennis Dunn"; "Dennis Shepherd"; =
Isaak; ""Erik Rubsamen"; "Francis "; "Frank Young"; "Gary Musson "; =
Moir "; "Greg Glass"; "Howard Crocker"; "Hoyt Hill"; "Ian Palacio "; =
Andersen"; "Jay Boatright"; "Jenny Rayna"; "Jim B Razendale "; "Jody
Warrick"; "Joe Karovics "; "John Breen"; "John Dodd"; "Jose Morcillo ";
"Jose-Carlos Garcia"; "Joshua"; "Jude Braden "; "Judy A. Harte"; =
"Kathrin Kirsch "; "Leonidas Papacostantinou "; "Leslie Bowers"
bowersls@..."Linda M. Pinson"; "Malcol Burden "; "Marius =
"Mark Moser"; "Mark Thomas"; "Marx Family"; "Mary Poag"; "Matt =
"Matt Smith "; "Mike Cimino-Hurt"; "Mike Evans "; "Mikhail =
"Neil Prime "; "Nigel Brown "; "Oliver Brunton"; "PAUL NEWSTEAD "; =
Richardson"; "Paul Stamford "; "Peter May"; "Peter Morrison"; "Peter
Spanton"; "Philip Andrew Stevens"; "Pontus Johansson"; "ROBERT McGRATH =
"RONALD STEWART"; "Rachel Pavlu"; "Randy Smith"; "Rick Stone"; "Rob van
Leeuwen"; "Robin Ohlsson "; "Roger St-Arneault"; "Ron Sheyan"; "Ryan =
"; "S. J. Matthews"; "Scott and Karen Gawne"; "Shaw Vrana "; "Shodan ";
"Shoji Nishimura"; "Simon Hall"; "Stephen C. Merritt"; "Stephen Irwin";
"Steve Southwood"; "Steve Treavett"; "Stuart Eather"; "Thomas J. =
"Tim Evans"; "Tom French "; "Tommy"; "Tony Tate"; "Trevor Seddon"; =
pardue"; "Willem Vellema"
Cc: "Matthew Witherspoon"
Objet: Welcome to a New Wado Discussion Forum
Hello - *REI*,
I am forwarding this to all Wado Karate enthusiasts. If you would like =
be involved with a new forum dedicated to Wado Karate, Shindo Yoshin =
Jujitsu, and other studies related to Master Hironori Otsuka please =
further about how to subscribe to this new forum. It is intended to
(WIKF, JKF-Wado Kai, USEWKF, Wado Ryu Renemi, Shintani, etc...);=20
to be a venue for all students of Otsuka Sensei to share ideas and
regardless of political affiliation. =20
Matthew Witherspoon has created the forum, and gives the following =
Please join and let the discussions begin! There is no fee, just a =
create a forum dedicated to the discussion of Wado.
--- Matthew Witherspoon < amakw@... <mailto:amakw@...> > =
> Reply-to: email@example.com <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org>=20Wado
> Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 03:11:38 -0000
> From: "Matthew Witherspoon" < amakw@... <mailto:amakw@...> =
> To: email@example.com <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org>=20
> Subject: [wadokarate] Welcome to Wado Karate Web
> This forum has been established for the use of practitioners of the =
> style of Karate - the Way of Peace established by Master Hironori =Ohtsuka.
> We charter this group with three primary rules. Contributors are =
> know and observe these rules at all times for the good of the forum.shall
> 1) You may only represent yourself in this forum. No contributor =
> presume to represent or speak with authority in the place of anotherperson,
> entity, or organization not participating in the discussion.contributors to
> 2) You shall not engage in personal attacks against other =
> forum. No namecalling, ad hominem insults, or any other abusivesubmission
> will be allowed. Disagreement, argument, and general loathing is =allowed,
> but you must be excruciatingly polite about it.promote
> 3) You shall not contribute crass commercial messages intended to =
> your own financial interests, products, or services, or the financialallow
> interests, products, or services of others.
> If we need more bylaws, we'll add them as we go.
> Again, welcome! As I greet you, so shall I bow quietly aside and =
> discussion to begin.------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> Matthew Witherspoon
> Nashville, Tennessee, USA
> To Post a message, send it to: wadokarate@...<mailto:wadokarate@...>=20
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:wadokarate-unsubscribe@...
> -- eGroup Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/wadokarate/?m=3D1
> -- Free email groups at eGroups.com------------------------------ message 017 ------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 21:25:15 -0800
From: JACKSON RYAN <ryanj1@...>
Subject: [wadokarate] Wado Karate
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I'm a new list member. I've been taking Wado karate for about 7 years
now. I really hope this list takes off. I've been on other lists that
focused on other stuff I wasn't as interested in so this list really
excites me. To John Dodd, I don't know whether to call you Sensei or
Sempai so please pardon me. I noticed your post about using Bassai in a
tournament. Congratulations on the 2nd place. I've seen Sensei Greer
compete MANY times and have never been disappointed in what I've seen.
His control and power are very impressive to me. I love watching his
front kicks, not to mention he ties his belt really cool lol. If you had
to lose the 1st to anyone that's someone to lose to. I have never been
very sucessful at the tournament level though I've never really done
much of it. My favorite kata would have to be Seishan. The tension at
the beginning is awesome. I'm not great at it, but I love watching a
properly done form of it. As to Mr. Taylor, I was wondering, how much
does your dojo practice the 9 alternate katas and how much are they a
part of your dan syllabus. I know that we practice them very often at my
dojo and they are a large part of the dan grading syllabus. For my next
belt I will have to perform Chinto (obviously one of the 9 main katas)
and Jitte. I was sort of wondering for everybody what the Dan
qualifications were at your Dojo and also what the age limit on a Dan
grade would be. This should provide those looking for one a number of
threads to reply to.
Ryan Jackson - 14 year old Shodan
Danner Karate Center Nashville,
------------------------------ message 018 ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 05:19:33 -0800
Subject: [wadokarate] Re: Wado Karate
jackson ryan <ryanj-@...> wrote:
> snip..... As to Mr. Taylor, I was wondering, how muchThanks for joining and writing Ryan. As to your first question, our
> does your dojo practice the 9 alternate katas and how much are they a
> part of your dan syllabus.
schools practice all of the original wado kata, excluding Suparinpei
(which we are in the process of trying to learn). They are all part
of our dan syllabus, with kyu ranks learning First Basic, Pinans 1-5,
Kusanku, Jion, Jutte, and Naihanchi, and dans learning Chinto, Bassai,
Seisan, Neseishi, Rohai, and Wanshu.
> snip......I was sort of wondering for everybody what the DanYou can examine our belt requirements at http://www.falconx.com/conradj
> qualifications were at your Dojo and also what the age limit on a Dan
> grade would be.
> Ryan Jackson - 14 year old Shodan
> Danner Karate Center Nashville,
you can view an overview of our 1998 shodan exam and written exam at:
As far as age is concerned, our starting age is 10, but we have never
tested anyone at that young of an age. One of our instructors tested
with his son a few years back, and he was close to ten, but was
unusually mature and bright, and was able to do very well. We do not
have junior black belts, so when our youth test for black belt, they
must meet the same requirements that the adults do. Hope this answers
p.s. Say Hello to Mrs. Judith Gregory. She is either a green or brown
belt at your school, and I work with her at American General, and have
spoke with her often about our karate interest.
Conrad Jones Karate Schools
Franklin & Brentwood, TN USA
------------------------------ message 019 ------------------------------
From: "John Dodd" <John.Dodd@...>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 08:55:46 -0600
Subject: [wadokarate] re: kata syllabus, dan requirements
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>I was wondering, how muchAt David Deaton Karate Studio (part of the US Eastern Wado Ryu Karate-do
>does your dojo practice the 9 alternate katas and how much are they a
>part of your dan syllabus
Federation), we practice First Basic Kata, the five Pinan Kata, Kushanku,
Naihanchi, and Chinto with tremendous regularity. Although we practice
Seisan more frequently than some of the other remaining kata (Bassai, Jion,
Jitte, Wanshu, Neseishi, Rohai, etc.) these are all practiced with somewhat
less frequency. Out of personal preference, I I work heavily on Bassai,
Wanshu, Chinto, and Naihanchi.
>I was sort of wondering for everybody what the DanI will quote from a recent letter I received from Mr. Deaton, which came
>qualifications were at your Dojo and also what the age limit on a Dan
>grade would be.
along with the results from one of my quarterly black belt reviews:
"Please find listed below the requirements for degrees of black belt:
1) A black belt must be in good standing with their school and instructors
2) A black belt must be actively participating in classroom instruction
(minimum 6 times per month). Passing a monthly physical test (note:
although the criteria for the P.T. vary according to age, gender, and rank,
the basics include a 1-mile run in under 10 minutes, 60 push ups in 90
seconds, 60 situps in 90 seconds). Able to perform all basic requirements
(kata, kiso, kihon, etc.)
3) A black belt must be participating in school functions and competitions.
4) a black belt must have succesfully passed a minimum of six quarterly
reviews to be considered for the next degree.
5) A black belt must meet the following requirements for age and time of
1st Degree - 16 years old and 3 years practice (five Pinans, Kushanku,
2nd Degree - 18 years old and 5 years practice (five Pinans, Kushanku,
3rd Degree - 21 years old and 7 years practice (five Pinans, Kushanku,
Naihanchi, Chinto, Seisan)
4th Degree - 25 years old and 10 years practice (five Pinans, Kushanku,
Naihanchi, Chinto, Seisan, Niseishi)
5th Degree - 32 years old and 15 years practice (five Pinans, Kushanku,
Naihanchi, Chinto, Seisan, Niseishi, Bassai)
6th Degree - 36 years old and 20 years practice (five Pinans, Kushanku,
Naihanchi, Chinto, Seisan, Niseishi, Bassai; candidate's choice of Wanshu,
Jion, Jitte, Roahi)
7th Degree - 42 years old and 25 years practice (all kata)
8th Degree - 50 years old and 30 years practice (all kata)
1st Degree - 10 years old, 3 years practice
2nd Degree - 13 years old, 5 years practice
(At 16 years, Adult Certification For 3rd Degree & up follow the adult
------------------------------ message 020 ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:45:42 -0800
Subject: [wadokarate] Re: dan requirements-running
"john dodd" <john.dod-@...> wrote:
Passing a monthly physical test (note:
> although the criteria for the P.T. vary according to age, gender, andrank,
> the basics include a 1-mile run in under 10 minutes, 60 push ups in 90We have a similar 'PT' portion to our dan tests, with push/sit ups &
> seconds, 60 situps in 90 seconds).
Our age criteria is:
under 15 9 minute mile
16 - 49 8 minute mile
50 & over 9 minute mile
I will share my story when it came to the running portion of our test.
It is intended to be humorous, but also possibly teach a lesson in
what we can attain if we really focus, and are determined. For a poor
runner, this story is surprisingly long-winded.
I am not a running person. As a matter of fact I have always hated
running for the sake of running....I love all sports and have always
enjoyed running while playing...not just running to run. I would
play full-court basketball, or racquetball, or tennis for 5 hours
straight, than run/jog/etc. To make a long story short, it was very
difficult for me to overcome the mental side of not wanting to run;
less the physical side. I do not have the traditional runner's body.
At 6'5, 260ish, I tend to have the body style of a linebacker, or maybe
a professional wrestler, but not a distance runner...you tend to see
guys that run as being 5'5, 120 lbs, but not my sasquatch-like size.
As we started training, I found that 8 minutes seemed to be an
goal for my body type. I trained for over a year, and saw my times
from a starting pace in the 20's, (I was laughingly given the title,
'slower than a dead rabbitt' by our Sensei) to somewhere in the 10-11
range. I had two occasions where I broke 10(9:45, & 9:15), but never
approached the allusive 8.
When time for the test came, I was as mentally determined as I could be
make this goal, even though I had never broken 9, much less 8. I
off flying, with the intent of forcing myself through the test, at a
high enough to pass. This strategy worked well it seemed, as I passed
quarter mile mark under 1:30, which had me on a sub 6 minute run. I
still going strong almost to the halfway point, when it hit [BAMMMM],
'the wall' was there, and my body told my brain, "No Thank You!, This is
stupid, and I am not going to do this anymore!!". I made the half
way turn at 4:15(My best half ever), but new I would have to keep the
pace, and knock off some to still reach 8:00. I became extremely dis-
couraged, and my body kept saying, "You are too big to run this fast,
can't do this!"...but I mentally kept pushing through. Then I hit a
where I realized that I could not do it, and that I was going to fail,
and there was nothing I could do about it, no matter how much I wanted
make it, I just wasn't physically able. I spent a few seconds wallowing
in pity, and even dropped out to a fast-walk because of it, then
else happened. I got mad! I started telling myself that I had trained
worked so hard for this, that I was not going to give up, and I would
the run, and be sure I had given all that I had. With new vigor, that
have come via divine appointment, I started running again, and past the
3/4 marker at a fairly good rate...but I was too drained to have the
coordination to be able to look at my watch to see where my time
turned into the last stretch, I heard the Senior Dan, who was timing the
test say, "...Is that Dave??? Oh my Gosh....He might make it(with
disbelief and amazement in her voice), and she and the others started
cheering...I must have looked like a cyclone of arms and legs flailing
down the path, trying to get to the line, without falling down. I came
point where I should begin the 'runner's kick', (I doubt anyone could
I sped up any, but mentally I thought I was kicking), and I finally
it across the finish line without falling down.
It seemed like I had just returned from a week long trek through the
not a simple, 1 mile jog...but to me, it was more than that. My
was somewhere up around 500 bps, and my heart and lungs were very near
exploding. I had extended myself way out of my comfortzone, and had
every possible ounce of strength and determination that I had to finish
this race. I have never done anything that was so immediately
and challenging as this, and I never let myself give up on the goal.
do I have to show for it?
--------------------------------> 7:53 <-------------------------------
A number that I will always cherish, because it will always remind me
I was able to reach deep within, and find a way to attain a goal that I
really did not have the ability to reach. I was able to trade my old
of 'slower than a dead rabbitt', in and was given a new title by our
of 'fastest eighth ton on the planet'.
Never lose sight of your goals, never give up, and have the will to
------------------------------ message 021 ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 22:22:00 +0200
From: Leonidas Papakonstantinou <papahis@...>
Subject: [wadokarate] Wado Ryu
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7
I am very pleased having the chance to be a new member of the dicussion
group about WADO RYU.
Be sure that on the next days you will have more news from me and my
Sensei TAKIS STATHOPOULOS (5th dan) - (under Sensei SUZUKI)
best regards from Corfu / Kerkyra in Greece.
------------------------------ message 022 ------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:52:57 -0800
Subject: [wadokarate] Hakoishi and Suparinpei
I'm having e-mail problems so if this shows up twice I apologize...
I just reread what I wrote. If I offend, I apologize again. The
intent was to initiate a fruitful dialogue...
I was looking at Hakoishi's book during my lunch hour and noticed that
it really did not have a publisher or a price on it. I got mine from
Norm Foster. She got me a copy when she visited Dr. Hakoishi. I am
going home to Japan in December so I will ask around.
Yes, the book is in Japanese. And I do not recommend learning the kata
from the book because it is hard to discern the movements from the
photos. He did not pose for these photos. He is just doing the kata
and a camera is clicking away. So each picture shows him in transition
as opposed to the typical kata book where the author freezes at the end
of each movement. If you already know the kata then these photos are
extremely informative because as we all know, it is the transition that
is the most important about a kata and not the finish...(end of the
However, what I can say is that Dr Hakoishi is doing Suparimpei in
sanchin stance and not seishan stance. And also if you can learn the
Shitoryu version then you pretty much got it because I sure as heck
can't tell the difference..Don't ask me about goju because I don't know
the details of the goju version although on the surface it appears to
be very similar.
The same goes for gojushiho. If you know the Shitoryu gojushiho then
you pretty much have the Wado one. The stances are just 'Wadoized'.
(unlike suparinpei which stays true to the Shitoryu stances.)
I forgot to mention that the book also has Wado Sochin. Once again, it
is the Shitoryu version and not Shotokan. The Shotokan Sochin is not
even close. It is a totally different Sochin so don't even
bother.(This is not meant to be a slam on Shotokan Sochin. I really
like the Shotokan version..)
My theory on all of this (just my personal opinion because I don't know
very much but..) is that Otsuka learned these katas from Mabuni but
never got around to modifying them that much for one reason or another.
If you look at our core katas you can see that he took the time to put
his stamp on it. Contrast the Shotokan Heian, Shitoryu Heian and Wado
Pinan. I guess you really can't compare the Wado Pinan with the
Shotokan Heian because Funakoshi's son radically changed all the katas
so we really don't know what father Funakoshi really taught his first
students but..Anyway, you will see that the Shitoryu influence is much
stronger than the Shotokan influence. Naihanchi doesn't count because
Otsuka learned that from Choki Motobu. There are always exceptions.
Our Bassai is more similar to Shotokan than Shitoryu. I'm sure there
are others but I don't know much about kata. (No false modesty. I
really don't. I only know the katas I've been taught. I never learned
Jion, Jitte, stuff like that. Unless I can find someone to teach me,
I'm usually not interested in learning on my own. Guess I'm too lazy
and not smart enough to figure it out.)
Sorry for the rambling. I can be rather opinionated. Just to have
some fun, let me sign off with the following statements....
- Kata competition is stupid. (yes I competed. yes I'm stupid.)
- Wado katas are very difficult.
- You can gauge the level of a karateka by his/her kata....
- The main purpose of kata is to study how to release energy within the
- And lastly, my dear friend who I consider to be the best karateka in
the United States (his kata is amazing but will remain nameless) and
you have to trust me when I say I've seen or trained with most of the
'masters', once said "Wado insults kata"....;)
Bob Nash, JKF-Wadokai 5th dan.
------------------------------ message 023 ------------------------------
From: "Tokai Dojo" <tokaidojo@...>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 17:15:54 -0600
Subject: [wadokarate] No Subject
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I would like to join.
View the full archives, subscribe/unsubscribe, use the
group calendar at http://www.eGroups.com/list/wadokarate
Manage your subscriptions at http://eGroups.com
Free e-mail groups by eGroups.com.
- Hi Dave,
I had sent this information regarding refereeing in earlier and I noticed
it did not get included in your stats on the topic so I thought I would
offer it one more time.
>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:29:20 -0800Dan Wallis
>From: Dan Wallis <dan.wallis@...>
>Subject: Re: wadokarate digest
>To Graham Perrin
>re: refereeing fees
>Karate British Columbia has a sliding scale to recognize the contributions
>referees make at tournaments.They are, by the day, as follows:
> International $100
> "A" calss $50
> "B" class $25
>International and "A" class officials also receive transportation,
>accommodation and a meals coverage for tournaments.
>Hope this helps.
Telephone 287-7124 Fax 287-9631