Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [vsx-dis] Re: Nomenclature for cross-identifications

Expand Messages
  • Michael Koppelman
    For published work I m sure you are right, John, but it is very convenient to have a single place to look that aggregates a bunch of sources into a single
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 27, 2007
      For published work I'm sure you are right, John, but it is very
      convenient to have a single place to look that aggregates a bunch of
      sources into a single source. For conversational use I can't see how
      it hurts to reference NOMAD. I also don't see how it hurts in VSX-
      type apps where the NOMAD reference is valid and can be further
      dereferenced to find the original source.

      Yes, it is a bit lazy but so useful that I would argue that a little
      leeway may be appropriate.

      M.


      On Jan 27, 2007, at 12:49 PM, duble.stars wrote:

      > anyway, folk stop using this non-ID
    • duble.stars
      I feel like doing that there Pauli thing and saying that that ain t even wrong , but maybes that s a bit out of context. Last time this came up it was mused
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 27, 2007
        I feel like doing that there Pauli thing and saying that that "ain't
        even wrong", but maybes that's a bit out of context.

        Last time this came up it was mused that this ain't an astrometric
        database. That floored me too, coz basically, if it isn't an
        astrometric database, all the more reason to have a linkage to a valid
        astrometric source, transferring the astrometric credentials elsewhere.

        I've got to state again that nomad just stuffs catalogues together, it
        is _not_ a critical catalogue, and will choose tycho2 over ucac2 even
        if the latter is in fact more accurate coz of the mag range, for instance.

        Always a quandary to me stuff like this, coz the way I always look at
        it is that questions of convenience and shortcuts and "it'll do even
        though it isn't proper" attitude within a dataset just lead me to
        wonder where that attitude ends, and where else it promulgates within
        the dataset, possibly to the core data? How'm I supposed to know?

        In this name dropping universe I meself try not to drop names, so I'll
        just say I did check with one of the few I nearly always defer to,
        especially on matters astrometric, and said I reckon this catalogue's
        just a stuck together thing and just like that 2.5 Million "allsky"
        compilation thing should be avoided at all costs and the primary
        sources stuffed and fudged uncritically into both should be used
        instead. I got strong concurrence, plus the bit of news that I didn't
        know that usno managerial admin were the sole impetus for the creation
        of nomad, and _not_ the astrometric team (which answered a big
        question to me, coz based on most of the other catalogues NZ, SU et al
        have done, nomad is very non-normal in its concept and execution).

        I just used this url on another list to show all the catalogues in
        vizier for a double star

        <http://vizier.u-strasbg.fr/viz-bin/VizieR-2?-out.max=5&-out.all&-c=269.29679%20%2B35.66958&-c.eq=J2000.0&-oc.form=deg&-c.r=1&-c.u=arcmin&-c.geom=r&-sort=_r&!-4c=Find%20Data>

        that's the core, nomads in there, but so are the sources, and you can
        front end search vizier for ucac2 and tycho2 both at once easy enough,
        cmc14 too, stuff like that.

        Here's a damn easy one for everyone...

        http://irsa.ipac.caltech.edu/cgi-bin/QuickStats/nph-stats?objstr=186.0062++51.5622&size=1&units=arcmin&coverage=1

        that's NASA IRSA/IPAC's VO contribution, it goes away and identifies
        easily (unlike that mulish thing at heasarc) all the catalogues
        available and gives you direct links to them, in the data download
        column. It does VizieR's job for it, but also does the stuff that
        vizier don't touch, like ned, and IRSA's own interfaces, which'll get
        you some stuff that ain't in vizier, and other stuff too, if it exists.

        Coz ya see, that's another thing that gets me, there's no need half
        the time to do these things folk say are easier, coz doing it right is
        even easier half the time, as well as being right.

        Cheers

        John

        PS gotta love them coverage maps to the right hand side of that irsa
        search facility, nice little touch. Here's the root url

        http://irsa.ipac.caltech.edu/applications/QuickStats/

        Dunno whether I've mentioned afore, but the IRSA NVO Region Statistic
        tool is a useful linkout. For the adventurous you can even press the
        OASIS button, but I personally find that more trouble than it's worth
        and mulish compared to stuff like aladin. Dunno, most of the time I
        find java, at least in many applications, is just a way to slow my
        machine back down every time I upgrade to a faster m/b and cpu.

        --- In vsx-dis@yahoogroups.com, Michael Koppelman <lolife@...> wrote:
        >
        > For published work I'm sure you are right, John, but it is very
        > convenient to have a single place to look that aggregates a bunch of
        > sources into a single source. For conversational use I can't see how
        > it hurts to reference NOMAD. I also don't see how it hurts in VSX-
        > type apps where the NOMAD reference is valid and can be further
        > dereferenced to find the original source.

        The dereferencing is nontrivial, you got to nomad or vizier, you look
        up the full entry, you see the flag for source catalogue, you go away
        and look up source catalogue, you get ID from source catalogue. nomad
        does not cleanly dereference.

        > Yes, it is a bit lazy but so useful that I would argue that a little
        > leeway may be appropriate.
        >
        > M.
        >
        >
        > On Jan 27, 2007, at 12:49 PM, duble.stars wrote:
        >
        > > anyway, folk stop using this non-ID
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.