Re: [vsx-dis] Re: Nomenclature for cross-identifications
- For published work I'm sure you are right, John, but it is very
convenient to have a single place to look that aggregates a bunch of
sources into a single source. For conversational use I can't see how
it hurts to reference NOMAD. I also don't see how it hurts in VSX-
type apps where the NOMAD reference is valid and can be further
dereferenced to find the original source.
Yes, it is a bit lazy but so useful that I would argue that a little
leeway may be appropriate.
On Jan 27, 2007, at 12:49 PM, duble.stars wrote:
> anyway, folk stop using this non-ID
- I feel like doing that there Pauli thing and saying that that "ain't
even wrong", but maybes that's a bit out of context.
Last time this came up it was mused that this ain't an astrometric
database. That floored me too, coz basically, if it isn't an
astrometric database, all the more reason to have a linkage to a valid
astrometric source, transferring the astrometric credentials elsewhere.
I've got to state again that nomad just stuffs catalogues together, it
is _not_ a critical catalogue, and will choose tycho2 over ucac2 even
if the latter is in fact more accurate coz of the mag range, for instance.
Always a quandary to me stuff like this, coz the way I always look at
it is that questions of convenience and shortcuts and "it'll do even
though it isn't proper" attitude within a dataset just lead me to
wonder where that attitude ends, and where else it promulgates within
the dataset, possibly to the core data? How'm I supposed to know?
In this name dropping universe I meself try not to drop names, so I'll
just say I did check with one of the few I nearly always defer to,
especially on matters astrometric, and said I reckon this catalogue's
just a stuck together thing and just like that 2.5 Million "allsky"
compilation thing should be avoided at all costs and the primary
sources stuffed and fudged uncritically into both should be used
instead. I got strong concurrence, plus the bit of news that I didn't
know that usno managerial admin were the sole impetus for the creation
of nomad, and _not_ the astrometric team (which answered a big
question to me, coz based on most of the other catalogues NZ, SU et al
have done, nomad is very non-normal in its concept and execution).
I just used this url on another list to show all the catalogues in
vizier for a double star
that's the core, nomads in there, but so are the sources, and you can
front end search vizier for ucac2 and tycho2 both at once easy enough,
cmc14 too, stuff like that.
Here's a damn easy one for everyone...
that's NASA IRSA/IPAC's VO contribution, it goes away and identifies
easily (unlike that mulish thing at heasarc) all the catalogues
available and gives you direct links to them, in the data download
column. It does VizieR's job for it, but also does the stuff that
vizier don't touch, like ned, and IRSA's own interfaces, which'll get
you some stuff that ain't in vizier, and other stuff too, if it exists.
Coz ya see, that's another thing that gets me, there's no need half
the time to do these things folk say are easier, coz doing it right is
even easier half the time, as well as being right.
PS gotta love them coverage maps to the right hand side of that irsa
search facility, nice little touch. Here's the root url
Dunno whether I've mentioned afore, but the IRSA NVO Region Statistic
tool is a useful linkout. For the adventurous you can even press the
OASIS button, but I personally find that more trouble than it's worth
and mulish compared to stuff like aladin. Dunno, most of the time I
find java, at least in many applications, is just a way to slow my
machine back down every time I upgrade to a faster m/b and cpu.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Michael Koppelman <lolife@...> wrote:
> For published work I'm sure you are right, John, but it is very
> convenient to have a single place to look that aggregates a bunch of
> sources into a single source. For conversational use I can't see how
> it hurts to reference NOMAD. I also don't see how it hurts in VSX-
> type apps where the NOMAD reference is valid and can be further
> dereferenced to find the original source.
The dereferencing is nontrivial, you got to nomad or vizier, you look
up the full entry, you see the flag for source catalogue, you go away
and look up source catalogue, you get ID from source catalogue. nomad
does not cleanly dereference.
> Yes, it is a bit lazy but so useful that I would argue that a little
> leeway may be appropriate.
> On Jan 27, 2007, at 12:49 PM, duble.stars wrote:
> > anyway, folk stop using this non-ID