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VÖDABUK (DE JONG) VP - LINGLÄNA PÜK

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  • Ralph Midgley
    _FLENEF BEVÜNETIK VOLAPÜKA_ Tü del 19-id mayula yela 2012. O flens löfik! Fino edunob tradutodi vödabuka de Jong (Vp - Linglänapük). Fümob, das
    Message 1 of 22 , May 19, 2012
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      FLENEF  BEVÜNETIK  VOLAPÜKA

      Tü del 19-id mayula yela 2012.

      O flens löfik!

          Fino edunob tradutodi vödabuka de Jong (Vp - Linglänapük).  

          Fümob, das epölob, bi no binob nepölovik.   Begob olis ad gebön tradutodi at, e ven otuvob pölis, penolsös obe, begö!  ad jonön pöli tefik.   Edunob vobi, ab no kanob gudiko kontrolön, ob it,  vobi oba.

          No ai etradutob vödis ömik, bi no äkanob tuvön sinifi pötik otas.   In tef at, epenob säkamalülis kil pos vöd.   Valemo äkanob tradutön vödis Deutänapükik nulädik, ab dabinons vöds vönik, kelis  no äkanob jenöfo suemön.    Flens Deutänik (äsi votikans ko nol legudik püka) okanons bo yufön obi in tef at.

          Gebolsös, begö! vödabuki, bi tradutod Linglänapükik at ofruton pro utans, kels no sevons Deutänapüki,  ed ekö naed balid, das elabons tradutodi nulik.

          Valikosi Gudikün Oles

              sedom

                  Ralph.
    • Hermann Philipps
      Dear Ralph, Good work! Probably I shall be able to fill in the ??? gaps. Glidis ladöfik, Hermann
      Message 2 of 22 , May 19, 2012
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        Dear Ralph,

        Good work!
        Probably I shall be able to fill in the ??? gaps.

        Glidis ladöfik,
        Hermann

        -----------------------------

        Am 19.05.2012 18:21, schrieb Ralph Midgley:
        >
        >
        > _FLENEF BEVÜNETIK VOLAPÜKA_
        >
        > Tü del 19-id mayula yela 2012.
        >
        > O flens löfik!
        >
        > Fino edunob tradutodi vödabuka de Jong (Vp - Linglänapük).
        >
        > Fümob, das epölob, bi no binob nepölovik. Begob olis ad gebön
        > tradutodi at, e ven otuvob pölis, penolsös obe, begö! ad jonön
        > pöli tefik. Edunob vobi, ab no kanob gudiko kontrolön, ob it, vobi
        > oba.
        >
        > No ai etradutob vödis ömik, bi no äkanob tuvön sinifi pötik otas.
        > In tef at, epenob säkamalülis kil pos vöd. Valemo äkanob tradutön
        > vödis Deutänapükik nulädik, ab dabinons vöds vönik, kelis no
        > äkanob jenöfo suemön. Flens Deutänik (äsi votikans ko nol legudik
        > püka) okanons bo yufön obi in tef at.
        >
        > Gebolsös, begö! vödabuki, bi tradutod Linglänapükik at ofruton pro
        > utans, kels no sevons Deutänapüki, ed ekö naed balid, das elabons
        > tradutodi nulik.
        >
        > Valikosi Gudikün Oles
        >
        > sedom
        >
        > Ralph.
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Donald Gasper
        Benovipob ladöfiko! Donald To: volapuk@yahoogroups.com From: midgleyr@talktalk.net Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 17:21:36 +0100 Subject: [volapuk] VÖDABUK (DE JONG)
        Message 3 of 22 , May 19, 2012
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          Benovipob ladöfiko!
          Donald


          To: volapuk@yahoogroups.com
          From: midgleyr@...
          Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 17:21:36 +0100
          Subject: [volapuk] VÖDABUK (DE JONG) VP - LINGLÄNAPÜK



          FLENEF  BEVÜNETIK  VOLAPÜKA

          Tü del 19-id mayula yela 2012.

          O flens löfik!

              Fino edunob tradutodi vödabuka de Jong (Vp - Linglänapük).  

              Fümob, das epölob, bi no binob nepölovik.   Begob olis ad gebön tradutodi at, e ven otuvob pölis, penolsös obe, begö!  ad jonön pöli tefik.   Edunob vobi, ab no kanob gudiko kontrolön, ob it,  vobi oba.

              No ai etradutob vödis ömik, bi no äkanob tuvön sinifi pötik otas.   In tef at, epenob säkamalülis kil pos vöd.   Valemo äkanob tradutön vödis Deutänapükik nulädik, ab dabinons vöds vönik, kelis  no äkanob jenöfo suemön.    Flens Deutänik (äsi votikans ko nol legudik püka) okanons bo yufön obi in tef at.

              Gebolsös, begö! vödabuki, bi tradutod Linglänapükik at ofruton pro utans, kels no sevons Deutänapüki,  ed ekö naed balid, das elabons tradutodi nulik.

              Valikosi Gudikün Oles

                  sedom

                      Ralph.


        • Hermann
          Dear Ralph, you certainly mastered a heavy workload with this new dictionary. Meanwhile I have completed those words which you had marked by ??? . Mostly it
          Message 4 of 22 , May 28, 2012
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            Dear Ralph,

            you certainly mastered a heavy workload with this new dictionary.
            Meanwhile I have completed those words which you had marked by '???'.
            Mostly it was names of ethnic groups and chemical compounds many of which are outdated.
            In doing this I noticed a large number of such other errors as are common to scanned documents (inconsistent formatting, false renderings of letters, no reproduction of subscripts and superscripts, inconsistent spacing, etc.) So, currently I am reviewing the dictionary to correct those errors, as well.

            I also noticed the large number of chemical expressions. Arie de Jong obviously was good at chemistry. However, such words burden a normal dictionary unnecessarily and should be put into a special glossary of chemical expressions. As I can see, you gave up translating them in the later parts of the dictionary.

            As an interim solution I have uploaded my preliminarily amended version.

            Glidis ladöfikün,
            Hermann



            --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley <midgleyr@...> wrote:
            >
            > _FLENEF BEVÜNETIK VOLAPÜKA_
            >
            > Tü del 19-id mayula yela 2012.
            >
            > O flens löfik!
            >
            > Fino edunob tradutodi vödabuka de Jong (Vp - Linglänapük).
            >
            > Fümob, das epölob, bi no binob nepölovik. Begob olis ad gebön
            > tradutodi at, e ven otuvob pölis, penolsös obe, begö! ad jonön pöli
            > tefik. Edunob vobi, ab no kanob gudiko kontrolön, ob it, vobi oba.
            >
            > No ai etradutob vödis ömik, bi no äkanob tuvön sinifi pötik
            > otas. In tef at, epenob säkamalülis kil pos vöd. Valemo äkanob
            > tradutön vödis Deutänapükik nulädik, ab dabinons vöds vönik, kelis
            > no äkanob jenöfo suemön. Flens Deutänik (äsi votikans ko nol
            > legudik püka) okanons bo yufön obi in tef at.
            >
            > Gebolsös, begö! vödabuki, bi tradutod Linglänapükik at ofruton
            > pro utans, kels no sevons Deutänapüki, ed ekö naed balid, das
            > elabons tradutodi nulik.
            >
            > Valikosi Gudikün Oles
            >
            > sedom
            >
            > Ralph.
            >
          • Ralph Midgley
            O flen löfik Hermann! Danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob gretik, keli ya edunol tefü tradutod Linglänapükik vödabuka de Jong. Äsä penol, tonats A - L
            Message 5 of 22 , May 28, 2012
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              O flen löfik Hermann!

              Danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob gretik, keli ya edunol tefü tradutod
              Linglänapükik vödabuka de Jong.

              Äsä penol, tonats A - L dalabons pölis mödik bükavik. Kod atosa
              binon, das dil at pädunon medü penamacin (bü dels nünöma). Tü tim et,
              dü tumyel büik, flen Robertson se Skotän ävilom dunön tradutodi somik
              kobü ob. Pos tonat 'L' ye, jiniko iperom nitedi ad atos, seko no
              ifövob kobovobi in tef at. Ab ven flen Everson ämobom dini ot, ämemob
              vobi ya pedunöl bü yels so mödiks. Sekü atos, äkopiedob dokümis at.
              Kopiedöm oba binon gudik, ab no legudik - ekö kod pölas bükavik. Too
              äbinon yuf gudik äsi kuradükam veütik. Pos kopied tefik, ästeifülob ad
              koräkön pölis bükavik somik, ab klülabiko no äplöpob ad dunön valis.
              Pidob, das emutol dunön koräkotis retik, e danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob
              olik in tef at.

              Ab vöds, kelis suvo no äkanob suemön, äsä epenetol osi, äbinons
              nems tribütas vönik, e pato notodis kiemavik, kelis ekanol jenöfo
              tuvön. Danis dönu ole!

              Anu desinob ad kopiedön vödemi pekoräköl ola e ad plaädön tradutodi
              obik me tradutod perevidöl ola. Sosus odunol koräkotis zesüdik votik,
              odunob oto.

              Mil danis sedom ole Ralph.




              On 28/05/2012 09:26, Hermann wrote:
              > Dear Ralph,
              >
              > you certainly mastered a heavy workload with this new dictionary.
              > Meanwhile I have completed those words which you had marked by '???'.
              > Mostly it was names of ethnic groups and chemical compounds many of which are outdated.
              > In doing this I noticed a large number of such other errors as are common to scanned documents (inconsistent formatting, false renderings of letters, no reproduction of subscripts and superscripts, inconsistent spacing, etc.) So, currently I am reviewing the dictionary to correct those errors, as well.
              >
              > I also noticed the large number of chemical expressions. Arie de Jong obviously was good at chemistry. However, such words burden a normal dictionary unnecessarily and should be put into a special glossary of chemical expressions. As I can see, you gave up translating them in the later parts of the dictionary.
              >
              > As an interim solution I have uploaded my preliminarily amended version.
              >
              > Glidis ladöfikün,
              > Hermann
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@...> wrote:
              >> _FLENEF BEVÜNETIK VOLAPÜKA_
              >>
              >> Tü del 19-id mayula yela 2012.
              >>
              >> O flens löfik!
              >>
              >> Fino edunob tradutodi vödabuka de Jong (Vp - Linglänapük).
              >>
              >> Fümob, das epölob, bi no binob nepölovik. Begob olis ad gebön
              >> tradutodi at, e ven otuvob pölis, penolsös obe, begö! ad jonön pöli
              >> tefik. Edunob vobi, ab no kanob gudiko kontrolön, ob it, vobi oba.
              >>
              >> No ai etradutob vödis ömik, bi no äkanob tuvön sinifi pötik
              >> otas. In tef at, epenob säkamalülis kil pos vöd. Valemo äkanob
              >> tradutön vödis Deutänapükik nulädik, ab dabinons vöds vönik, kelis
              >> no äkanob jenöfo suemön. Flens Deutänik (äsi votikans ko nol
              >> legudik püka) okanons bo yufön obi in tef at.
              >>
              >> Gebolsös, begö! vödabuki, bi tradutod Linglänapükik at ofruton
              >> pro utans, kels no sevons Deutänapüki, ed ekö naed balid, das
              >> elabons tradutodi nulik.
              >>
              >> Valikosi Gudikün Oles
              >>
              >> sedom
              >>
              >> Ralph.
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Hermann
              Dear Ralph, I hope to be able writing in Volapük shortly. For the time being, English will have to do. Today I uploaded the preliminarily complete version of
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 12, 2012
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                Dear Ralph,

                I hope to be able writing in Volapük shortly. For the time being, English will have to do.
                Today I uploaded the preliminarily complete version of your Vp-Eng dicitionary along the lines of Arie de Jong. In doing so, I noticed a few general areas requiring looking at, and I also corrected in passing a few things which cought my eyes although this was not a consideration with priority. To give some examples for the latter:
                "tivomül = fried fish". Arie de Jong gives the German "Backfish" which, indeed, normally is a fried fish. But actually, "Backfish" also is an outdated word for a female teenager which is nicely expressed by the Volapük "ti-vom-ül".
                Another example is the "tungudan = do-gooder (person)". Actually, a "tungudan" is an outdated word denoting a member of the Eastern Siberian "Tungus" people, now called "Evenks".

                Two general areas requiring a closer look at are:
                1.
                Words ending in the suffix -am. Usually the English renderings are correct but sometimes there seems to be uncertainty about the meaning of this suffix. Often such words were translated as if they were adjectives or verbs, or with meanings not consistent with the meaning of this suffix. In de Jong's original, -am always denotes a verbal noun or "gerund". In German, the ending -ung is often used which, however, can mean both a result of the action and the action itself. This can be confusing for the translator. The Vp -am always denotes the action.

                Examples:
                "laigam = lacquer, varnish" (de Jong: Lackierung). In fact the action of varnishing or lacquering is meant.

                "laliadam = alloy" (de Jong: Legierung, das Legieren). De Jong's entry clarifies that "laliadam" is not the alloy as such but the action of alloying. In German, both meanings are possible.

                "nedöfükam = to make perfect". This looks as if "nedöfükam" were a verb. Something like "(the) perfecting / making perfect" would be more correct.

                The second area to be reconsidered is the arrangement of derivations pertaining to a root word. De Jong usually has separate entries for each of such derivations -- listed alphabetically so that some derivations occasionally are separated from each other by words of a different root. In the Vp-English rendering I noticed that, occasionally, words pertaining to different, unrelated roots are listed under one entry.

                Examples:
                "vir = swirling, whirling: viräd = swirling, whirling: vireb = vertebra (medical): virebem = spinal column: virik = swirling, whirling: virön [nel.] = to swirl, whirl."

                "vireb" is a different and unrelated root word (there is no suffix -eb in Vp) and should, therefore, be entered separately.

                "vi: vi! = oh dear! viam = lamentation: vian = wailer: vibijop = suffragan (bishop): viön [nel.] = to complain, lament: vivokäd = woeful cry: vivokädan = person who raises a woeful cry."

                The "vi" in vibijob" is no way related to the "vi" of the root "vi". It is a remnant of "Weih-" (meaning "consecrating") in the German "Weihbischof"

                I suggest that de Jong's original word order be restored to avoid such errors and to make finding a word easier.

                Some work to be done, still, before this dictionary is fully usable.

                Anyway, continued work on this should preferably use this newly uploaded version as its formatting is tolerably consistent and already contains a number of corrections.

                I intend to go through this dictionary again with a focus on correct meanings and disentangling entries. I do this mainly for my own linguistic enjoyment, so if you have other plans, don't feel interfered with.

                Glidis ladöfikün,
                Hermann









                --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley <midgleyr@...> wrote:
                >
                > O flen löfik Hermann!
                >
                > Danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob gretik, keli ya edunol tefü tradutod
                > Linglänapükik vödabuka de Jong.
                >
                > Äsä penol, tonats A - L dalabons pölis mödik bükavik. Kod atosa
                > binon, das dil at pädunon medü penamacin (bü dels nünöma). Tü tim et,
                > dü tumyel büik, flen Robertson se Skotän ävilom dunön tradutodi somik
                > kobü ob. Pos tonat 'L' ye, jiniko iperom nitedi ad atos, seko no
                > ifövob kobovobi in tef at. Ab ven flen Everson ämobom dini ot, ämemob
                > vobi ya pedunöl bü yels so mödiks. Sekü atos, äkopiedob dokümis at.
                > Kopiedöm oba binon gudik, ab no legudik - ekö kod pölas bükavik. Too
                > äbinon yuf gudik äsi kuradükam veütik. Pos kopied tefik, ästeifülob ad
                > koräkön pölis bükavik somik, ab klülabiko no äplöpob ad dunön valis.
                > Pidob, das emutol dunön koräkotis retik, e danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob
                > olik in tef at.
                >
                > Ab vöds, kelis suvo no äkanob suemön, äsä epenetol osi, äbinons
                > nems tribütas vönik, e pato notodis kiemavik, kelis ekanol jenöfo
                > tuvön. Danis dönu ole!
                >
                > Anu desinob ad kopiedön vödemi pekoräköl ola e ad plaädön tradutodi
                > obik me tradutod perevidöl ola. Sosus odunol koräkotis zesüdik votik,
                > odunob oto.
                >
                > Mil danis sedom ole Ralph.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > On 28/05/2012 09:26, Hermann wrote:
                > > Dear Ralph,
                > >
                > > you certainly mastered a heavy workload with this new dictionary.
                > > Meanwhile I have completed those words which you had marked by '???'.
                > > Mostly it was names of ethnic groups and chemical compounds many of which are outdated.
                > > In doing this I noticed a large number of such other errors as are common to scanned documents (inconsistent formatting, false renderings of letters, no reproduction of subscripts and superscripts, inconsistent spacing, etc.) So, currently I am reviewing the dictionary to correct those errors, as well.
                > >
                > > I also noticed the large number of chemical expressions. Arie de Jong obviously was good at chemistry. However, such words burden a normal dictionary unnecessarily and should be put into a special glossary of chemical expressions. As I can see, you gave up translating them in the later parts of the dictionary.
                > >
                > > As an interim solution I have uploaded my preliminarily amended version.
                > >
                > > Glidis ladöfikün,
                > > Hermann
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@> wrote:
                > >> _FLENEF BEVÜNETIK VOLAPÜKA_
                > >>
                > >> Tü del 19-id mayula yela 2012.
                > >>
                > >> O flens löfik!
                > >>
                > >> Fino edunob tradutodi vödabuka de Jong (Vp - Linglänapük).
                > >>
                > >> Fümob, das epölob, bi no binob nepölovik. Begob olis ad gebön
                > >> tradutodi at, e ven otuvob pölis, penolsös obe, begö! ad jonön pöli
                > >> tefik. Edunob vobi, ab no kanob gudiko kontrolön, ob it, vobi oba.
                > >>
                > >> No ai etradutob vödis ömik, bi no äkanob tuvön sinifi pötik
                > >> otas. In tef at, epenob säkamalülis kil pos vöd. Valemo äkanob
                > >> tradutön vödis Deutänapükik nulädik, ab dabinons vöds vönik, kelis
                > >> no äkanob jenöfo suemön. Flens Deutänik (äsi votikans ko nol
                > >> legudik püka) okanons bo yufön obi in tef at.
                > >>
                > >> Gebolsös, begö! vödabuki, bi tradutod Linglänapükik at ofruton
                > >> pro utans, kels no sevons Deutänapüki, ed ekö naed balid, das
                > >> elabons tradutodi nulik.
                > >>
                > >> Valikosi Gudikün Oles
                > >>
                > >> sedom
                > >>
                > >> Ralph.
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • Ralph Midgley
                O flen löfik Hermann! Danis lemödik demü yuf veütikün ola! Mutob koefön, das neföro büo äsevob, das Backfish äsinifon tivomül. Nol nulik obe,
                Message 7 of 22 , Jun 12, 2012
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                  O flen löfik Hermann!

                  Danis lemödik demü yuf veütikün ola!

                  Mutob koefön, das neföro büo äsevob, das "Backfish" äsinifon
                  "tivomül." Nol nulik obe, kel sion völadi pösoda, kel labon
                  Deutänapüki as lomänapük. E 'tungudan' id estäänükon vödemi oba!

                  Vöds, kels finikons me -am binons suvo fikuliks ad gudiko tradutön
                  ini Linglänapük. Volapük dalabon kurati, kel anikna defon in pük
                  oba. Otuvol, das suvo egebob vödi Linglänik mödikna ad tradutön vödis
                  Volapükik labü foyümots/poyümots difik.

                  Gidetol fümo, das vuls vödas no binons ai fasiliks ad dasevön.
                  Läükol samis gudik. Danö!

                  Plidob gebi ela Cherpillod, kel ninükom vödis vula ot in bagaf
                  bal. Cedü ob, atos binon gudik, e yufon studanis ad lärnön vödis
                  vifikumo. Sekü atos, ävilob sümädön omi in tef at, ab äsä logob anu,
                  no ai plöpo.

                  Geb ela de Jong äbinon ad dunön lisedi lafabik, e atos bo binos
                  gudikum. Fümo binos gudikum ad tradutön dili Linglänapük - Volapük, ab
                  lärnoy dunölo, no-li?

                  Äsä sagol, vödabuk, do döfik, kanon pagebön anu, e fümo pro utans,
                  kels no sevons Deutänapüki.

                  Mutob siön, das binob danöfik ole demü vob legudik, keli (o)dunol.

                  Danis milnaik sedom

                  Ralph.


                  On 12/06/2012 10:46, Hermann wrote:
                  > Dear Ralph,
                  >
                  > I hope to be able writing in Volapük shortly. For the time being, English will have to do.
                  > Today I uploaded the preliminarily complete version of your Vp-Eng dicitionary along the lines of Arie de Jong. In doing so, I noticed a few general areas requiring looking at, and I also corrected in passing a few things which cought my eyes although this was not a consideration with priority. To give some examples for the latter:
                  > "tivomül = fried fish". Arie de Jong gives the German "Backfish" which, indeed, normally is a fried fish. But actually, "Backfish" also is an outdated word for a female teenager which is nicely expressed by the Volapük "ti-vom-ül".
                  > Another example is the "tungudan = do-gooder (person)". Actually, a "tungudan" is an outdated word denoting a member of the Eastern Siberian "Tungus" people, now called "Evenks".
                  >
                  > Two general areas requiring a closer look at are:
                  > 1.
                  > Words ending in the suffix -am. Usually the English renderings are correct but sometimes there seems to be uncertainty about the meaning of this suffix. Often such words were translated as if they were adjectives or verbs, or with meanings not consistent with the meaning of this suffix. In de Jong's original, -am always denotes a verbal noun or "gerund". In German, the ending -ung is often used which, however, can mean both a result of the action and the action itself. This can be confusing for the translator. The Vp -am always denotes the action.
                  >
                  > Examples:
                  > "laigam = lacquer, varnish" (de Jong: Lackierung). In fact the action of varnishing or lacquering is meant.
                  >
                  > "laliadam = alloy" (de Jong: Legierung, das Legieren). De Jong's entry clarifies that "laliadam" is not the alloy as such but the action of alloying. In German, both meanings are possible.
                  >
                  > "nedöfükam = to make perfect". This looks as if "nedöfükam" were a verb. Something like "(the) perfecting / making perfect" would be more correct.
                  >
                  > The second area to be reconsidered is the arrangement of derivations pertaining to a root word. De Jong usually has separate entries for each of such derivations -- listed alphabetically so that some derivations occasionally are separated from each other by words of a different root. In the Vp-English rendering I noticed that, occasionally, words pertaining to different, unrelated roots are listed under one entry.
                  >
                  > Examples:
                  > "vir = swirling, whirling: viräd = swirling, whirling: vireb = vertebra (medical): virebem = spinal column: virik = swirling, whirling: virön [nel.] = to swirl, whirl."
                  >
                  > "vireb" is a different and unrelated root word (there is no suffix -eb in Vp) and should, therefore, be entered separately.
                  >
                  > "vi: vi! = oh dear! viam = lamentation: vian = wailer: vibijop = suffragan (bishop): viön [nel.] = to complain, lament: vivokäd = woeful cry: vivokädan = person who raises a woeful cry."
                  >
                  > The "vi" in vibijob" is no way related to the "vi" of the root "vi". It is a remnant of "Weih-" (meaning "consecrating") in the German "Weihbischof"
                  >
                  > I suggest that de Jong's original word order be restored to avoid such errors and to make finding a word easier.
                  >
                  > Some work to be done, still, before this dictionary is fully usable.
                  >
                  > Anyway, continued work on this should preferably use this newly uploaded version as its formatting is tolerably consistent and already contains a number of corrections.
                  >
                  > I intend to go through this dictionary again with a focus on correct meanings and disentangling entries. I do this mainly for my own linguistic enjoyment, so if you have other plans, don't feel interfered with.
                  >
                  > Glidis ladöfikün,
                  > Hermann
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@...> wrote:
                  >> O flen löfik Hermann!
                  >>
                  >> Danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob gretik, keli ya edunol tefü tradutod
                  >> Linglänapükik vödabuka de Jong.
                  >>
                  >> Äsä penol, tonats A - L dalabons pölis mödik bükavik. Kod atosa
                  >> binon, das dil at pädunon medü penamacin (bü dels nünöma). Tü tim et,
                  >> dü tumyel büik, flen Robertson se Skotän ävilom dunön tradutodi somik
                  >> kobü ob. Pos tonat 'L' ye, jiniko iperom nitedi ad atos, seko no
                  >> ifövob kobovobi in tef at. Ab ven flen Everson ämobom dini ot, ämemob
                  >> vobi ya pedunöl bü yels so mödiks. Sekü atos, äkopiedob dokümis at.
                  >> Kopiedöm oba binon gudik, ab no legudik - ekö kod pölas bükavik. Too
                  >> äbinon yuf gudik äsi kuradükam veütik. Pos kopied tefik, ästeifülob ad
                  >> koräkön pölis bükavik somik, ab klülabiko no äplöpob ad dunön valis.
                  >> Pidob, das emutol dunön koräkotis retik, e danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob
                  >> olik in tef at.
                  >>
                  >> Ab vöds, kelis suvo no äkanob suemön, äsä epenetol osi, äbinons
                  >> nems tribütas vönik, e pato notodis kiemavik, kelis ekanol jenöfo
                  >> tuvön. Danis dönu ole!
                  >>
                  >> Anu desinob ad kopiedön vödemi pekoräköl ola e ad plaädön tradutodi
                  >> obik me tradutod perevidöl ola. Sosus odunol koräkotis zesüdik votik,
                  >> odunob oto.
                  >>
                  >> Mil danis sedom ole Ralph.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> On 28/05/2012 09:26, Hermann wrote:
                  >>> Dear Ralph,
                  >>>
                  >>> you certainly mastered a heavy workload with this new dictionary.
                  >>> Meanwhile I have completed those words which you had marked by '???'.
                  >>> Mostly it was names of ethnic groups and chemical compounds many of which are outdated.
                  >>> In doing this I noticed a large number of such other errors as are common to scanned documents (inconsistent formatting, false renderings of letters, no reproduction of subscripts and superscripts, inconsistent spacing, etc.) So, currently I am reviewing the dictionary to correct those errors, as well.
                  >>>
                  >>> I also noticed the large number of chemical expressions. Arie de Jong obviously was good at chemistry. However, such words burden a normal dictionary unnecessarily and should be put into a special glossary of chemical expressions. As I can see, you gave up translating them in the later parts of the dictionary.
                  >>>
                  >>> As an interim solution I have uploaded my preliminarily amended version.
                  >>>
                  >>> Glidis ladöfikün,
                  >>> Hermann
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@> wrote:
                  >>>> _FLENEF BEVÜNETIK VOLAPÜKA_
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Tü del 19-id mayula yela 2012.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> O flens löfik!
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Fino edunob tradutodi vödabuka de Jong (Vp - Linglänapük).
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Fümob, das epölob, bi no binob nepölovik. Begob olis ad gebön
                  >>>> tradutodi at, e ven otuvob pölis, penolsös obe, begö! ad jonön pöli
                  >>>> tefik. Edunob vobi, ab no kanob gudiko kontrolön, ob it, vobi oba.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> No ai etradutob vödis ömik, bi no äkanob tuvön sinifi pötik
                  >>>> otas. In tef at, epenob säkamalülis kil pos vöd. Valemo äkanob
                  >>>> tradutön vödis Deutänapükik nulädik, ab dabinons vöds vönik, kelis
                  >>>> no äkanob jenöfo suemön. Flens Deutänik (äsi votikans ko nol
                  >>>> legudik püka) okanons bo yufön obi in tef at.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Gebolsös, begö! vödabuki, bi tradutod Linglänapükik at ofruton
                  >>>> pro utans, kels no sevons Deutänapüki, ed ekö naed balid, das
                  >>>> elabons tradutodi nulik.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Valikosi Gudikün Oles
                  >>>>
                  >>>> sedom
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Ralph.
                  >>>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> ------------------------------------
                  >>>
                  >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • andremalafaya
                  Regarding the latest version (preliminary 1), I found the following: Cirogan = Cherokee. tsyeroketans = Cherokees. It feels strange that these two have
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jun 20, 2012
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                    Regarding the latest version (preliminary 1), I found the following:

                    Cirogan = Cherokee.

                    tsyeroketans = Cherokees.

                    It feels strange that these two have different roots.
                    Are they both equally valid? Could we also say Cirogans (for the people) and tsyeroketan (for the individual)?

                    Best regards,
                    André Malafaya


                    --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley <midgleyr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > O flen löfik Hermann!
                    >
                    > Danis lemödik demü yuf veütikün ola!
                    >
                    > Mutob koefön, das neföro büo äsevob, das "Backfish" äsinifon
                    > "tivomül." Nol nulik obe, kel sion völadi pösoda, kel labon
                    > Deutänapüki as lomänapük. E 'tungudan' id estäänükon vödemi oba!
                    >
                    > Vöds, kels finikons me -am binons suvo fikuliks ad gudiko tradutön
                    > ini Linglänapük. Volapük dalabon kurati, kel anikna defon in pük
                    > oba. Otuvol, das suvo egebob vödi Linglänik mödikna ad tradutön vödis
                    > Volapükik labü foyümots/poyümots difik.
                    >
                    > Gidetol fümo, das vuls vödas no binons ai fasiliks ad dasevön.
                    > Läükol samis gudik. Danö!
                    >
                    > Plidob gebi ela Cherpillod, kel ninükom vödis vula ot in bagaf
                    > bal. Cedü ob, atos binon gudik, e yufon studanis ad lärnön vödis
                    > vifikumo. Sekü atos, ävilob sümädön omi in tef at, ab äsä logob anu,
                    > no ai plöpo.
                    >
                    > Geb ela de Jong äbinon ad dunön lisedi lafabik, e atos bo binos
                    > gudikum. Fümo binos gudikum ad tradutön dili Linglänapük - Volapük, ab
                    > lärnoy dunölo, no-li?
                    >
                    > Äsä sagol, vödabuk, do döfik, kanon pagebön anu, e fümo pro utans,
                    > kels no sevons Deutänapüki.
                    >
                    > Mutob siön, das binob danöfik ole demü vob legudik, keli (o)dunol.
                    >
                    > Danis milnaik sedom
                    >
                    > Ralph.
                    >
                    >
                    > On 12/06/2012 10:46, Hermann wrote:
                    > > Dear Ralph,
                    > >
                    > > I hope to be able writing in Volapük shortly. For the time being, English will have to do.
                    > > Today I uploaded the preliminarily complete version of your Vp-Eng dicitionary along the lines of Arie de Jong. In doing so, I noticed a few general areas requiring looking at, and I also corrected in passing a few things which cought my eyes although this was not a consideration with priority. To give some examples for the latter:
                    > > "tivomül = fried fish". Arie de Jong gives the German "Backfish" which, indeed, normally is a fried fish. But actually, "Backfish" also is an outdated word for a female teenager which is nicely expressed by the Volapük "ti-vom-ül".
                    > > Another example is the "tungudan = do-gooder (person)". Actually, a "tungudan" is an outdated word denoting a member of the Eastern Siberian "Tungus" people, now called "Evenks".
                    > >
                    > > Two general areas requiring a closer look at are:
                    > > 1.
                    > > Words ending in the suffix -am. Usually the English renderings are correct but sometimes there seems to be uncertainty about the meaning of this suffix. Often such words were translated as if they were adjectives or verbs, or with meanings not consistent with the meaning of this suffix. In de Jong's original, -am always denotes a verbal noun or "gerund". In German, the ending -ung is often used which, however, can mean both a result of the action and the action itself. This can be confusing for the translator. The Vp -am always denotes the action.
                    > >
                    > > Examples:
                    > > "laigam = lacquer, varnish" (de Jong: Lackierung). In fact the action of varnishing or lacquering is meant.
                    > >
                    > > "laliadam = alloy" (de Jong: Legierung, das Legieren). De Jong's entry clarifies that "laliadam" is not the alloy as such but the action of alloying. In German, both meanings are possible.
                    > >
                    > > "nedöfükam = to make perfect". This looks as if "nedöfükam" were a verb. Something like "(the) perfecting / making perfect" would be more correct.
                    > >
                    > > The second area to be reconsidered is the arrangement of derivations pertaining to a root word. De Jong usually has separate entries for each of such derivations -- listed alphabetically so that some derivations occasionally are separated from each other by words of a different root. In the Vp-English rendering I noticed that, occasionally, words pertaining to different, unrelated roots are listed under one entry.
                    > >
                    > > Examples:
                    > > "vir = swirling, whirling: viräd = swirling, whirling: vireb = vertebra (medical): virebem = spinal column: virik = swirling, whirling: virön [nel.] = to swirl, whirl."
                    > >
                    > > "vireb" is a different and unrelated root word (there is no suffix -eb in Vp) and should, therefore, be entered separately.
                    > >
                    > > "vi: vi! = oh dear! viam = lamentation: vian = wailer: vibijop = suffragan (bishop): viön [nel.] = to complain, lament: vivokäd = woeful cry: vivokädan = person who raises a woeful cry."
                    > >
                    > > The "vi" in vibijob" is no way related to the "vi" of the root "vi". It is a remnant of "Weih-" (meaning "consecrating") in the German "Weihbischof"
                    > >
                    > > I suggest that de Jong's original word order be restored to avoid such errors and to make finding a word easier.
                    > >
                    > > Some work to be done, still, before this dictionary is fully usable.
                    > >
                    > > Anyway, continued work on this should preferably use this newly uploaded version as its formatting is tolerably consistent and already contains a number of corrections.
                    > >
                    > > I intend to go through this dictionary again with a focus on correct meanings and disentangling entries. I do this mainly for my own linguistic enjoyment, so if you have other plans, don't feel interfered with.
                    > >
                    > > Glidis ladöfikün,
                    > > Hermann
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@> wrote:
                    > >> O flen löfik Hermann!
                    > >>
                    > >> Danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob gretik, keli ya edunol tefü tradutod
                    > >> Linglänapükik vödabuka de Jong.
                    > >>
                    > >> Äsä penol, tonats A - L dalabons pölis mödik bükavik. Kod atosa
                    > >> binon, das dil at pädunon medü penamacin (bü dels nünöma). Tü tim et,
                    > >> dü tumyel büik, flen Robertson se Skotän ävilom dunön tradutodi somik
                    > >> kobü ob. Pos tonat 'L' ye, jiniko iperom nitedi ad atos, seko no
                    > >> ifövob kobovobi in tef at. Ab ven flen Everson ämobom dini ot, ämemob
                    > >> vobi ya pedunöl bü yels so mödiks. Sekü atos, äkopiedob dokümis at.
                    > >> Kopiedöm oba binon gudik, ab no legudik - ekö kod pölas bükavik. Too
                    > >> äbinon yuf gudik äsi kuradükam veütik. Pos kopied tefik, ästeifülob ad
                    > >> koräkön pölis bükavik somik, ab klülabiko no äplöpob ad dunön valis.
                    > >> Pidob, das emutol dunön koräkotis retik, e danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob
                    > >> olik in tef at.
                    > >>
                    > >> Ab vöds, kelis suvo no äkanob suemön, äsä epenetol osi, äbinons
                    > >> nems tribütas vönik, e pato notodis kiemavik, kelis ekanol jenöfo
                    > >> tuvön. Danis dönu ole!
                    > >>
                    > >> Anu desinob ad kopiedön vödemi pekoräköl ola e ad plaädön tradutodi
                    > >> obik me tradutod perevidöl ola. Sosus odunol koräkotis zesüdik votik,
                    > >> odunob oto.
                    > >>
                    > >> Mil danis sedom ole Ralph.
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> On 28/05/2012 09:26, Hermann wrote:
                    > >>> Dear Ralph,
                    > >>>
                    > >>> you certainly mastered a heavy workload with this new dictionary.
                    > >>> Meanwhile I have completed those words which you had marked by '???'.
                    > >>> Mostly it was names of ethnic groups and chemical compounds many of which are outdated.
                    > >>> In doing this I noticed a large number of such other errors as are common to scanned documents (inconsistent formatting, false renderings of letters, no reproduction of subscripts and superscripts, inconsistent spacing, etc.) So, currently I am reviewing the dictionary to correct those errors, as well.
                    > >>>
                    > >>> I also noticed the large number of chemical expressions. Arie de Jong obviously was good at chemistry. However, such words burden a normal dictionary unnecessarily and should be put into a special glossary of chemical expressions. As I can see, you gave up translating them in the later parts of the dictionary.
                    > >>>
                    > >>> As an interim solution I have uploaded my preliminarily amended version.
                    > >>>
                    > >>> Glidis ladöfikün,
                    > >>> Hermann
                    > >>>
                    > >>>
                    > >>>
                    > >>> --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@> wrote:
                    > >>>> _FLENEF BEVÜNETIK VOLAPÜKA_
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> Tü del 19-id mayula yela 2012.
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> O flens löfik!
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> Fino edunob tradutodi vödabuka de Jong (Vp - Linglänapük).
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> Fümob, das epölob, bi no binob nepölovik. Begob olis ad gebön
                    > >>>> tradutodi at, e ven otuvob pölis, penolsös obe, begö! ad jonön pöli
                    > >>>> tefik. Edunob vobi, ab no kanob gudiko kontrolön, ob it, vobi oba.
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> No ai etradutob vödis ömik, bi no äkanob tuvön sinifi pötik
                    > >>>> otas. In tef at, epenob säkamalülis kil pos vöd. Valemo äkanob
                    > >>>> tradutön vödis Deutänapükik nulädik, ab dabinons vöds vönik, kelis
                    > >>>> no äkanob jenöfo suemön. Flens Deutänik (äsi votikans ko nol
                    > >>>> legudik püka) okanons bo yufön obi in tef at.
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> Gebolsös, begö! vödabuki, bi tradutod Linglänapükik at ofruton
                    > >>>> pro utans, kels no sevons Deutänapüki, ed ekö naed balid, das
                    > >>>> elabons tradutodi nulik.
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> Valikosi Gudikün Oles
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> sedom
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>> Ralph.
                    > >>>>
                    > >>>
                    > >>>
                    > >>> ------------------------------------
                    > >>>
                    > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >>>
                    > >>>
                    > >>>
                    > >>>
                    > >>>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Michael Everson
                    ... In de Jong p. 310 he gives cirog = Tschiroki In de Jong p. 476 he gives tsyeroketans = Tscherokesen (Indianer) ... The current German spalling is
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jun 20, 2012
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                      On 20 Jun 2012, at 15:21, andremalafaya wrote:

                      > Regarding the latest version (preliminary 1), I found the following:
                      >
                      > Cirogan = Cherokee.
                      >
                      > tsyeroketans = Cherokees.

                      In de Jong p. 310 he gives "cirog = Tschiroki"

                      In de Jong p. 476 he gives "tsyeroketans = Tscherokesen (Indianer)"

                      > It feels strange that these two have different roots.
                      > Are they both equally valid? Could we also say Cirogans (for the people) and tsyeroketan (for the individual)?

                      The current German spalling is "Cherokee". Wikipedia says "veraltet im Deutschen Tscherokesen genannt". "Tschiroki" is even older I think.

                      No, they should not have different roots. This seems to be a mistake of de Jong's.

                      I helped to encode the Cherokee script in Unicode and happen to be in contact with some Cherokees who are active in making apps and other technology support their language. I might ask them what they think.

                      'Cherokee' in Cherokee is Tsalagi though dialectal forms pronounce this [tsalaɡi], [dʒalaɡi], [tʃalaɡi], and tʃalaɡ]. Another original form may have been Tsaragi.

                      This resolution of this question is one for the Kadäm Volapüka, I think. In the meantime I can try to contact my colleagues in Oklahoma.

                      Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
                    • Michael Everson
                      I have written to my Cherokee colleagues saying: ===== Volapük is an artificial language invented by a German priest in 1879. It was supplanted by Esperanto.
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jun 20, 2012
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                        I have written to my Cherokee colleagues saying:

                        =====
                        Volapük is an artificial language invented by a German priest in 1879. It was supplanted by Esperanto. I like Volapük and enjoy writing and publishing in it. Crazy, but what can you do? It's a stimulating hobby. (I have many.)

                        The great Volapük/German dictionary is being translated into English, and we discovered that the compiler had two different words for Cherokee. That's a mistake, and I would like to give the Volapük Academy your opinion on what choice might be made.

                        On p. 310 de Jong gives "cirog = Tschiroki"

                        On p. 476 de Jong gives "tsyeroketans = Tscherokesen (Indianer)"

                        Now according to the rules both "cirog" [tʃiˈroɡ] and "tsyeroket" [tsjeroˈket] would mean 'Cherokeeness', and "cirogan" and "tsyeroketan" would be 'a Cherokee person', with "cirogans" and "tsyeroketans" would be 'Cherokee people'. You could say "hicirogan" or "hitsyeroketan" for 'Cherokee man' and "jicirogan" or "jitsyeroketan" for 'Cherokee woman' (hi- comes from English "he" and ji- comes from English "she").

                        I guess the question is, which do you like best?
                        =====

                        Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
                      • Arden R. Smith
                        ... None of the older German reference works that I have at home appear to include Tschiroki at all. Cannabich s _Lehrbuch der Geographie nach den neuesten
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jun 20, 2012
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                          On Jun 20, 2012, at 7:47 AM, Michael Everson wrote:

                          The current German spalling is "Cherokee". Wikipedia says "veraltet im Deutschen Tscherokesen genannt". "Tschiroki" is even older I think.

                          None of the older German reference works that I have at home appear to include "Tschiroki" at all.  Cannabich's _Lehrbuch der Geographie nach den neuesten Friedensbestimmungen_ (1836), _Muret-Sanders enzyklopädisches Wörterbuch_ (1906), and _Knaurs Lexicon_ (1939) all use the form "Tscherokesen". Even more importantly, Duden Rechtschreibung has "Tscherokese", with no sign of "Tschiroki", in all the editions I have: 1904, 1915, and even the post-reform 21. Auflage from 1996 (which, incidentally, does NOT include the spelling "Cherokee").

                          Examples of "Tschiroki" in Google Books reside within the same general timespan, from the 19th to the early 20th century, but it does not appear ever to have been the standard German form. 


                          ***************************************************

                          Arden R. Smith  erilaz@...


                          Perilme metto aimaktur perperienta.

                          --Elvish proverb


                          ***************************************************




                        • Hermann Philipps
                          Very good. While not being a Cherokee, I would still rather opt for cirog . The tsy is rather far from the normal tʃ sound. By the way, I am currently
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jun 20, 2012
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                            Very good. While not being a Cherokee, I would still rather opt for
                            "cirog".
                            The "tsy" is rather far from the normal tʃ sound.

                            By the way, I am currently revising, reformatting and preparing for
                            printing the German Volapük course by Johann Schmidt along the lines
                            suggested by you.
                            This will give me more insight into Volapük before I continue
                            preparing the Vp - English dictionary.

                            And I have found out about "nel. nem." and some other things using
                            Cherpillods "Konciza Gramatiko de Volapuko" and de Jong's "Gramat
                            Volapüka".

                            Kind regards,
                            Hermann

                            Am 20.06.2012 18:36, schrieb Michael Everson:
                            > I have written to my Cherokee colleagues saying:
                            >
                            > =====
                            > Volapük is an artificial language invented by a German priest in 1879. It was supplanted by Esperanto. I like Volapük and enjoy writing and publishing in it. Crazy, but what can you do? It's a stimulating hobby. (I have many.)
                            >
                            > The great Volapük/German dictionary is being translated into English, and we discovered that the compiler had two different words for Cherokee. That's a mistake, and I would like to give the Volapük Academy your opinion on what choice might be made.
                            >
                            > On p. 310 de Jong gives "cirog = Tschiroki"
                            >
                            > On p. 476 de Jong gives "tsyeroketans = Tscherokesen (Indianer)"
                            >
                            > Now according to the rules both "cirog" [tʃiˈroɡ] and "tsyeroket" [tsjeroˈket] would mean 'Cherokeeness', and "cirogan" and "tsyeroketan" would be 'a Cherokee person', with "cirogans" and "tsyeroketans" would be 'Cherokee people'. You could say "hicirogan" or "hitsyeroketan" for 'Cherokee man' and "jicirogan" or "jitsyeroketan" for 'Cherokee woman' (hi- comes from English "he" and ji- comes from English "she").
                            >
                            > I guess the question is, which do you like best?
                            > =====
                            >
                            > Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Michael Everson
                            ... OK, but see http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschiroki That form might explain cirog though. Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jun 20, 2012
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                              On 20 Jun 2012, at 17:47, Arden R. Smith wrote:

                              > None of the older German reference works that I have at home appear to include "Tschiroki" at all.

                              OK, but see http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschiroki

                              That form might explain "cirog" though.

                              Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
                            • Arden R. Smith
                              ... Which takes you to an article entitled Cherokee , where the only instance of Tschiroki is in the line (Weitergeleitet von Tschiroki) . The spelling
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jun 20, 2012
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                                On Jun 20, 2012, at 10:02 AM, Michael Everson wrote:


                                Which takes you to an article entitled "Cherokee", where the only instance of "Tschiroki" is in the line "(Weitergeleitet von Tschiroki)".  The spelling exists, sure, but it never appears to have been the *preferred* spelling in German.


                                ***************************************************

                                Arden R. Smith  erilaz@...


                                Perilme metto aimaktur perperienta.

                                --Elvish proverb


                                ***************************************************




                              • Michael Everson
                                ... Indeed, but for my part I don t believe I said it was. Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jun 20, 2012
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                                  On 20 Jun 2012, at 18:14, Arden R. Smith wrote:

                                  > On Jun 20, 2012, at 10:02 AM, Michael Everson wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> OK, but see http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschiroki
                                  >
                                  > Which takes you to an article entitled "Cherokee", where the only instance of "Tschiroki" is in the line "(Weitergeleitet von Tschiroki)". The spelling exists, sure, but it never appears to have been the *preferred* spelling in German.

                                  Indeed, but for my part I don't believe I said it was.

                                  Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
                                • Hermann Philipps
                                  With regard to the names of countries, peoples and languages there is a high degree of inconsistency not only in natural languages but in constructed
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jun 20, 2012
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                                    With regard to the names of countries, peoples and languages there is
                                    a high degree of inconsistency not only in natural languages but in
                                    constructed languages, as well.

                                    Looking through de Jong's dictionary, a general convention becomes
                                    obvious: peoples end in -ans (an individual member ends in -an), the
                                    related country ends in -än. There are exceptions, though.

                                    Languages either end in -änapük, or they are the bare root words such
                                    as: süriy (Syrian language), tsyeg (Czech language), latin (classical
                                    Latin language), sved (old-Swedish language, velt (the Welsh
                                    language). Possibly many -änik words can be used both for the general
                                    attribute (as in English soccer team) and the language (speaking English),

                                    The point I wish to make is that "cirog" most likely is the name of
                                    the Cherokee language, only.

                                    However, the fact remains that there are two slightly different roots
                                    for the same notion.

                                    Glidis,
                                    Hermann





                                    Am 20.06.2012 18:36, schrieb Michael Everson:
                                    > I have written to my Cherokee colleagues saying:
                                    >
                                    > =====
                                    > Volapük is an artificial language invented by a German priest in 1879. It was supplanted by Esperanto. I like Volapük and enjoy writing and publishing in it. Crazy, but what can you do? It's a stimulating hobby. (I have many.)
                                    >
                                    > The great Volapük/German dictionary is being translated into English, and we discovered that the compiler had two different words for Cherokee. That's a mistake, and I would like to give the Volapük Academy your opinion on what choice might be made.
                                    >
                                    > On p. 310 de Jong gives "cirog = Tschiroki"
                                    >
                                    > On p. 476 de Jong gives "tsyeroketans = Tscherokesen (Indianer)"
                                    >
                                    > Now according to the rules both "cirog" [tʃiˈroɡ] and "tsyeroket" [tsjeroˈket] would mean 'Cherokeeness', and "cirogan" and "tsyeroketan" would be 'a Cherokee person', with "cirogans" and "tsyeroketans" would be 'Cherokee people'. You could say "hicirogan" or "hitsyeroketan" for 'Cherokee man' and "jicirogan" or "jitsyeroketan" for 'Cherokee woman' (hi- comes from English "he" and ji- comes from English "she").
                                    >
                                    > I guess the question is, which do you like best?
                                    > =====
                                    >
                                    > Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • andremalafaya
                                    O Ralph e Hermann, etuvob pöki in vödabuk at: In pad: 129, pikik muton binön pikit (el woodpecker ). Glidis! André Malafaya Baptista
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jul 2, 2012
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                                      O Ralph e Hermann,

                                      etuvob pöki in vödabuk at:

                                      In pad: 129, 'pikik' muton binön 'pikit' (el 'woodpecker').

                                      Glidis!
                                      André Malafaya Baptista


                                      --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley <midgleyr@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > O flen löfik Hermann!
                                      >
                                      > Danis lemödik demü yuf veütikün ola!
                                      >
                                      > Mutob koefön, das neföro büo äsevob, das "Backfish" äsinifon
                                      > "tivomül." Nol nulik obe, kel sion völadi pösoda, kel labon
                                      > Deutänapüki as lomänapük. E 'tungudan' id estäänükon vödemi oba!
                                      >
                                      > Vöds, kels finikons me -am binons suvo fikuliks ad gudiko tradutön
                                      > ini Linglänapük. Volapük dalabon kurati, kel anikna defon in pük
                                      > oba. Otuvol, das suvo egebob vödi Linglänik mödikna ad tradutön vödis
                                      > Volapükik labü foyümots/poyümots difik.
                                      >
                                      > Gidetol fümo, das vuls vödas no binons ai fasiliks ad dasevön.
                                      > Läükol samis gudik. Danö!
                                      >
                                      > Plidob gebi ela Cherpillod, kel ninükom vödis vula ot in bagaf
                                      > bal. Cedü ob, atos binon gudik, e yufon studanis ad lärnön vödis
                                      > vifikumo. Sekü atos, ävilob sümädön omi in tef at, ab äsä logob anu,
                                      > no ai plöpo.
                                      >
                                      > Geb ela de Jong äbinon ad dunön lisedi lafabik, e atos bo binos
                                      > gudikum. Fümo binos gudikum ad tradutön dili Linglänapük - Volapük, ab
                                      > lärnoy dunölo, no-li?
                                      >
                                      > Äsä sagol, vödabuk, do döfik, kanon pagebön anu, e fümo pro utans,
                                      > kels no sevons Deutänapüki.
                                      >
                                      > Mutob siön, das binob danöfik ole demü vob legudik, keli (o)dunol.
                                      >
                                      > Danis milnaik sedom
                                      >
                                      > Ralph.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On 12/06/2012 10:46, Hermann wrote:
                                      > > Dear Ralph,
                                      > >
                                      > > I hope to be able writing in Volapük shortly. For the time being, English will have to do.
                                      > > Today I uploaded the preliminarily complete version of your Vp-Eng dicitionary along the lines of Arie de Jong. In doing so, I noticed a few general areas requiring looking at, and I also corrected in passing a few things which cought my eyes although this was not a consideration with priority. To give some examples for the latter:
                                      > > "tivomül = fried fish". Arie de Jong gives the German "Backfish" which, indeed, normally is a fried fish. But actually, "Backfish" also is an outdated word for a female teenager which is nicely expressed by the Volapük "ti-vom-ül".
                                      > > Another example is the "tungudan = do-gooder (person)". Actually, a "tungudan" is an outdated word denoting a member of the Eastern Siberian "Tungus" people, now called "Evenks".
                                      > >
                                      > > Two general areas requiring a closer look at are:
                                      > > 1.
                                      > > Words ending in the suffix -am. Usually the English renderings are correct but sometimes there seems to be uncertainty about the meaning of this suffix. Often such words were translated as if they were adjectives or verbs, or with meanings not consistent with the meaning of this suffix. In de Jong's original, -am always denotes a verbal noun or "gerund". In German, the ending -ung is often used which, however, can mean both a result of the action and the action itself. This can be confusing for the translator. The Vp -am always denotes the action.
                                      > >
                                      > > Examples:
                                      > > "laigam = lacquer, varnish" (de Jong: Lackierung). In fact the action of varnishing or lacquering is meant.
                                      > >
                                      > > "laliadam = alloy" (de Jong: Legierung, das Legieren). De Jong's entry clarifies that "laliadam" is not the alloy as such but the action of alloying. In German, both meanings are possible.
                                      > >
                                      > > "nedöfükam = to make perfect". This looks as if "nedöfükam" were a verb. Something like "(the) perfecting / making perfect" would be more correct.
                                      > >
                                      > > The second area to be reconsidered is the arrangement of derivations pertaining to a root word. De Jong usually has separate entries for each of such derivations -- listed alphabetically so that some derivations occasionally are separated from each other by words of a different root. In the Vp-English rendering I noticed that, occasionally, words pertaining to different, unrelated roots are listed under one entry.
                                      > >
                                      > > Examples:
                                      > > "vir = swirling, whirling: viräd = swirling, whirling: vireb = vertebra (medical): virebem = spinal column: virik = swirling, whirling: virön [nel.] = to swirl, whirl."
                                      > >
                                      > > "vireb" is a different and unrelated root word (there is no suffix -eb in Vp) and should, therefore, be entered separately.
                                      > >
                                      > > "vi: vi! = oh dear! viam = lamentation: vian = wailer: vibijop = suffragan (bishop): viön [nel.] = to complain, lament: vivokäd = woeful cry: vivokädan = person who raises a woeful cry."
                                      > >
                                      > > The "vi" in vibijob" is no way related to the "vi" of the root "vi". It is a remnant of "Weih-" (meaning "consecrating") in the German "Weihbischof"
                                      > >
                                      > > I suggest that de Jong's original word order be restored to avoid such errors and to make finding a word easier.
                                      > >
                                      > > Some work to be done, still, before this dictionary is fully usable.
                                      > >
                                      > > Anyway, continued work on this should preferably use this newly uploaded version as its formatting is tolerably consistent and already contains a number of corrections.
                                      > >
                                      > > I intend to go through this dictionary again with a focus on correct meanings and disentangling entries. I do this mainly for my own linguistic enjoyment, so if you have other plans, don't feel interfered with.
                                      > >
                                      > > Glidis ladöfikün,
                                      > > Hermann
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@> wrote:
                                      > >> O flen löfik Hermann!
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob gretik, keli ya edunol tefü tradutod
                                      > >> Linglänapükik vödabuka de Jong.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Äsä penol, tonats A - L dalabons pölis mödik bükavik. Kod atosa
                                      > >> binon, das dil at pädunon medü penamacin (bü dels nünöma). Tü tim et,
                                      > >> dü tumyel büik, flen Robertson se Skotän ävilom dunön tradutodi somik
                                      > >> kobü ob. Pos tonat 'L' ye, jiniko iperom nitedi ad atos, seko no
                                      > >> ifövob kobovobi in tef at. Ab ven flen Everson ämobom dini ot, ämemob
                                      > >> vobi ya pedunöl bü yels so mödiks. Sekü atos, äkopiedob dokümis at.
                                      > >> Kopiedöm oba binon gudik, ab no legudik - ekö kod pölas bükavik. Too
                                      > >> äbinon yuf gudik äsi kuradükam veütik. Pos kopied tefik, ästeifülob ad
                                      > >> koräkön pölis bükavik somik, ab klülabiko no äplöpob ad dunön valis.
                                      > >> Pidob, das emutol dunön koräkotis retik, e danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob
                                      > >> olik in tef at.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Ab vöds, kelis suvo no äkanob suemön, äsä epenetol osi, äbinons
                                      > >> nems tribütas vönik, e pato notodis kiemavik, kelis ekanol jenöfo
                                      > >> tuvön. Danis dönu ole!
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Anu desinob ad kopiedön vödemi pekoräköl ola e ad plaädön tradutodi
                                      > >> obik me tradutod perevidöl ola. Sosus odunol koräkotis zesüdik votik,
                                      > >> odunob oto.
                                      > >>
                                      > >> Mil danis sedom ole Ralph.
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >>
                                      > >> On 28/05/2012 09:26, Hermann wrote:
                                      > >>> Dear Ralph,
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>> you certainly mastered a heavy workload with this new dictionary.
                                      > >>> Meanwhile I have completed those words which you had marked by '???'.
                                      > >>> Mostly it was names of ethnic groups and chemical compounds many of which are outdated.
                                      > >>> In doing this I noticed a large number of such other errors as are common to scanned documents (inconsistent formatting, false renderings of letters, no reproduction of subscripts and superscripts, inconsistent spacing, etc.) So, currently I am reviewing the dictionary to correct those errors, as well.
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>> I also noticed the large number of chemical expressions. Arie de Jong obviously was good at chemistry. However, such words burden a normal dictionary unnecessarily and should be put into a special glossary of chemical expressions. As I can see, you gave up translating them in the later parts of the dictionary.
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>> As an interim solution I have uploaded my preliminarily amended version.
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>> Glidis ladöfikün,
                                      > >>> Hermann
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>> --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@> wrote:
                                      > >>>> _FLENEF BEVÜNETIK VOLAPÜKA_
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>> Tü del 19-id mayula yela 2012.
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>> O flens löfik!
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>> Fino edunob tradutodi vödabuka de Jong (Vp - Linglänapük).
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>> Fümob, das epölob, bi no binob nepölovik. Begob olis ad gebön
                                      > >>>> tradutodi at, e ven otuvob pölis, penolsös obe, begö! ad jonön pöli
                                      > >>>> tefik. Edunob vobi, ab no kanob gudiko kontrolön, ob it, vobi oba.
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>> No ai etradutob vödis ömik, bi no äkanob tuvön sinifi pötik
                                      > >>>> otas. In tef at, epenob säkamalülis kil pos vöd. Valemo äkanob
                                      > >>>> tradutön vödis Deutänapükik nulädik, ab dabinons vöds vönik, kelis
                                      > >>>> no äkanob jenöfo suemön. Flens Deutänik (äsi votikans ko nol
                                      > >>>> legudik püka) okanons bo yufön obi in tef at.
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>> Gebolsös, begö! vödabuki, bi tradutod Linglänapükik at ofruton
                                      > >>>> pro utans, kels no sevons Deutänapüki, ed ekö naed balid, das
                                      > >>>> elabons tradutodi nulik.
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>> Valikosi Gudikün Oles
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>> sedom
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>> Ralph.
                                      > >>>>
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>> ------------------------------------
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>>
                                      > >>>
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ------------------------------------
                                      > >
                                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Hermann Philipps
                                      O flen yufiälik André, enu epenetob atosi. Nog binons pöks mödik in lebuk at. Atimo vipob pas fimekön tidabuki Volapükik ela Johann Schmidt zeilü
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jul 2, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        O flen yufiälik André,

                                        enu epenetob atosi. Nog binons pöks mödik in lebuk at.
                                        Atimo vipob pas fimekön tidabuki Volapükik ela Johann Schmidt zeilü
                                        pobükam.
                                        Poso ofövob bevobami vödabuka. Alo, üf otuvol pökis zuik, begö, ai
                                        nunolöd obis tefü ons!

                                        Danis mödik,
                                        Hermann


                                        Am 02.07.2012 17:58, schrieb andremalafaya:
                                        > O Ralph e Hermann,
                                        >
                                        > etuvob pöki in vödabuk at:
                                        >
                                        > In pad: 129, 'pikik' muton binön 'pikit' (el 'woodpecker').
                                        >
                                        > Glidis!
                                        > André Malafaya Baptista
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@...> wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >> O flen löfik Hermann!
                                        >>
                                        >> Danis lemödik demü yuf veütikün ola!
                                        >>
                                        >> Mutob koefön, das neföro büo äsevob, das "Backfish" äsinifon
                                        >> "tivomül." Nol nulik obe, kel sion völadi pösoda, kel labon
                                        >> Deutänapüki as lomänapük. E 'tungudan' id estäänükon vödemi oba!
                                        >>
                                        >> Vöds, kels finikons me -am binons suvo fikuliks ad gudiko tradutön
                                        >> ini Linglänapük. Volapük dalabon kurati, kel anikna defon in pük
                                        >> oba. Otuvol, das suvo egebob vödi Linglänik mödikna ad tradutön vödis
                                        >> Volapükik labü foyümots/poyümots difik.
                                        >>
                                        >> Gidetol fümo, das vuls vödas no binons ai fasiliks ad dasevön.
                                        >> Läükol samis gudik. Danö!
                                        >>
                                        >> Plidob gebi ela Cherpillod, kel ninükom vödis vula ot in bagaf
                                        >> bal. Cedü ob, atos binon gudik, e yufon studanis ad lärnön vödis
                                        >> vifikumo. Sekü atos, ävilob sümädön omi in tef at, ab äsä logob anu,
                                        >> no ai plöpo.
                                        >>
                                        >> Geb ela de Jong äbinon ad dunön lisedi lafabik, e atos bo binos
                                        >> gudikum. Fümo binos gudikum ad tradutön dili Linglänapük - Volapük, ab
                                        >> lärnoy dunölo, no-li?
                                        >>
                                        >> Äsä sagol, vödabuk, do döfik, kanon pagebön anu, e fümo pro utans,
                                        >> kels no sevons Deutänapüki.
                                        >>
                                        >> Mutob siön, das binob danöfik ole demü vob legudik, keli (o)dunol.
                                        >>
                                        >> Danis milnaik sedom
                                        >>
                                        >> Ralph.
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> On 12/06/2012 10:46, Hermann wrote:
                                        >>> Dear Ralph,
                                        >>>
                                        >>> I hope to be able writing in Volapük shortly. For the time being, English will have to do.
                                        >>> Today I uploaded the preliminarily complete version of your Vp-Eng dicitionary along the lines of Arie de Jong. In doing so, I noticed a few general areas requiring looking at, and I also corrected in passing a few things which cought my eyes although this was not a consideration with priority. To give some examples for the latter:
                                        >>> "tivomül = fried fish". Arie de Jong gives the German "Backfish" which, indeed, normally is a fried fish. But actually, "Backfish" also is an outdated word for a female teenager which is nicely expressed by the Volapük "ti-vom-ül".
                                        >>> Another example is the "tungudan = do-gooder (person)". Actually, a "tungudan" is an outdated word denoting a member of the Eastern Siberian "Tungus" people, now called "Evenks".
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Two general areas requiring a closer look at are:
                                        >>> 1.
                                        >>> Words ending in the suffix -am. Usually the English renderings are correct but sometimes there seems to be uncertainty about the meaning of this suffix. Often such words were translated as if they were adjectives or verbs, or with meanings not consistent with the meaning of this suffix. In de Jong's original, -am always denotes a verbal noun or "gerund". In German, the ending -ung is often used which, however, can mean both a result of the action and the action itself. This can be confusing for the translator. The Vp -am always denotes the action.
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Examples:
                                        >>> "laigam = lacquer, varnish" (de Jong: Lackierung). In fact the action of varnishing or lacquering is meant.
                                        >>>
                                        >>> "laliadam = alloy" (de Jong: Legierung, das Legieren). De Jong's entry clarifies that "laliadam" is not the alloy as such but the action of alloying. In German, both meanings are possible.
                                        >>>
                                        >>> "nedöfükam = to make perfect". This looks as if "nedöfükam" were a verb. Something like "(the) perfecting / making perfect" would be more correct.
                                        >>>
                                        >>> The second area to be reconsidered is the arrangement of derivations pertaining to a root word. De Jong usually has separate entries for each of such derivations -- listed alphabetically so that some derivations occasionally are separated from each other by words of a different root. In the Vp-English rendering I noticed that, occasionally, words pertaining to different, unrelated roots are listed under one entry.
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Examples:
                                        >>> "vir = swirling, whirling: viräd = swirling, whirling: vireb = vertebra (medical): virebem = spinal column: virik = swirling, whirling: virön [nel.] = to swirl, whirl."
                                        >>>
                                        >>> "vireb" is a different and unrelated root word (there is no suffix -eb in Vp) and should, therefore, be entered separately.
                                        >>>
                                        >>> "vi: vi! = oh dear! viam = lamentation: vian = wailer: vibijop = suffragan (bishop): viön [nel.] = to complain, lament: vivokäd = woeful cry: vivokädan = person who raises a woeful cry."
                                        >>>
                                        >>> The "vi" in vibijob" is no way related to the "vi" of the root "vi". It is a remnant of "Weih-" (meaning "consecrating") in the German "Weihbischof"
                                        >>>
                                        >>> I suggest that de Jong's original word order be restored to avoid such errors and to make finding a word easier.
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Some work to be done, still, before this dictionary is fully usable.
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Anyway, continued work on this should preferably use this newly uploaded version as its formatting is tolerably consistent and already contains a number of corrections.
                                        >>>
                                        >>> I intend to go through this dictionary again with a focus on correct meanings and disentangling entries. I do this mainly for my own linguistic enjoyment, so if you have other plans, don't feel interfered with.
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Glidis ladöfikün,
                                        >>> Hermann
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>> --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@> wrote:
                                        >>>> O flen löfik Hermann!
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>> Danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob gretik, keli ya edunol tefü tradutod
                                        >>>> Linglänapükik vödabuka de Jong.
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>> Äsä penol, tonats A - L dalabons pölis mödik bükavik. Kod atosa
                                        >>>> binon, das dil at pädunon medü penamacin (bü dels nünöma). Tü tim et,
                                        >>>> dü tumyel büik, flen Robertson se Skotän ävilom dunön tradutodi somik
                                        >>>> kobü ob. Pos tonat 'L' ye, jiniko iperom nitedi ad atos, seko no
                                        >>>> ifövob kobovobi in tef at. Ab ven flen Everson ämobom dini ot, ämemob
                                        >>>> vobi ya pedunöl bü yels so mödiks. Sekü atos, äkopiedob dokümis at.
                                        >>>> Kopiedöm oba binon gudik, ab no legudik - ekö kod pölas bükavik. Too
                                        >>>> äbinon yuf gudik äsi kuradükam veütik. Pos kopied tefik, ästeifülob ad
                                        >>>> koräkön pölis bükavik somik, ab klülabiko no äplöpob ad dunön valis.
                                        >>>> Pidob, das emutol dunön koräkotis retik, e danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob
                                        >>>> olik in tef at.
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>> Ab vöds, kelis suvo no äkanob suemön, äsä epenetol osi, äbinons
                                        >>>> nems tribütas vönik, e pato notodis kiemavik, kelis ekanol jenöfo
                                        >>>> tuvön. Danis dönu ole!
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>> Anu desinob ad kopiedön vödemi pekoräköl ola e ad plaädön tradutodi
                                        >>>> obik me tradutod perevidöl ola. Sosus odunol koräkotis zesüdik votik,
                                        >>>> odunob oto.
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>> Mil danis sedom ole Ralph.
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>>
                                        >>>> On 28/05/2012 09:26, Hermann wrote:
                                        >>>>> Dear Ralph,
                                        >>>>>
                                        >>>>> you certainly mastered a heavy workload with this new dictionary.
                                        >>>>> Meanwhile I have completed those words which you had marked by '???'.
                                        >>>>> Mostly it was names of ethnic groups and chemical compounds many of which are outdated.
                                        >>>>> In doing this I noticed a large number of such other errors as are common to scanned documents (inconsistent formatting, false renderings of letters, no reproduction of subscripts and superscripts, inconsistent spacing, etc.) So, currently I am reviewing the dictionary to correct those errors, as well.
                                        >>>>>
                                        >>>>> I also noticed the large number of chemical expressions. Arie de Jong obviously was good at chemistry. However, such words burden a normal dictionary unnecessarily and should be put into a special glossary of chemical expressions. As I can see, you gave up translating them in the later parts of the dictionary.
                                        >>>>>
                                        >>>>> As an interim solution I have uploaded my preliminarily amended version.
                                        >>>>>
                                        >>>>> Glidis ladöfikün,
                                        >>>>> Hermann
                                        >>>>>
                                        >>>>>
                                        >>>>>
                                        >>>>> --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@> wrote:
                                        >>>>>> _FLENEF BEVÜNETIK VOLAPÜKA_
                                        >>>>>>
                                        >>>>>> Tü del 19-id mayula yela 2012.
                                        >>>>>>
                                        >>>>>> O flens löfik!
                                        >>>>>>
                                        >>>>>> Fino edunob tradutodi vödabuka de Jong (Vp - Linglänapük).
                                        >>>>>>
                                        >>>>>> Fümob, das epölob, bi no binob nepölovik. Begob olis ad gebön
                                        >>>>>> tradutodi at, e ven otuvob pölis, penolsös obe, begö! ad jonön pöli
                                        >>>>>> tefik. Edunob vobi, ab no kanob gudiko kontrolön, ob it, vobi oba.
                                        >>>>>>
                                        >>>>>> No ai etradutob vödis ömik, bi no äkanob tuvön sinifi pötik
                                        >>>>>> otas. In tef at, epenob säkamalülis kil pos vöd. Valemo äkanob
                                        >>>>>> tradutön vödis Deutänapükik nulädik, ab dabinons vöds vönik, kelis
                                        >>>>>> no äkanob jenöfo suemön. Flens Deutänik (äsi votikans ko nol
                                        >>>>>> legudik püka) okanons bo yufön obi in tef at.
                                        >>>>>>
                                        >>>>>> Gebolsös, begö! vödabuki, bi tradutod Linglänapükik at ofruton
                                        >>>>>> pro utans, kels no sevons Deutänapüki, ed ekö naed balid, das
                                        >>>>>> elabons tradutodi nulik.
                                        >>>>>>
                                        >>>>>> Valikosi Gudikün Oles
                                        >>>>>>
                                        >>>>>> sedom
                                        >>>>>>
                                        >>>>>> Ralph.
                                        >>>>>>
                                        >>>>>
                                        >>>>>
                                        >>>>> ------------------------------------
                                        >>>>>
                                        >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >>>>>
                                        >>>>>
                                        >>>>>
                                        >>>>>
                                        >>>>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>> ------------------------------------
                                        >>>
                                        >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>>
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Hermann Philipps
                                        O flen löfik Ralph, danis mödik pro vöds ola fleniks! Siö! Binos fikulik tradutön vöds nen yumed seta. Pöls suvo binons nevitovik. Posä efimekob eli
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Aug 2, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          O flen löfik Ralph,

                                          danis mödik pro vöds ola fleniks!
                                          Siö! Binos fikulik tradutön vöds nen yumed seta. Pöls suvo binons
                                          nevitovik.
                                          Posä efimekob eli "Lehrbuch" fa el <Johann Schmidt>, nu eprimob ad
                                          vestigön oliki tradutodi dila Vp-De ini Linglänapüki. Dü vob at, mutob
                                          dasevön, das el <Arie de Jong> vo äsevom Deutänapüki gudiko, ab das
                                          igo om äpöpam. As sam, vöd "limäd" = "Schake, Schakel". Deutänapük
                                          labon ne "Schake", ne "Schakel". Ätradutol eli "limäd" as "joker,
                                          wag" ed eli "limädön" as "to make fun of". No äkanob suemön atosi, bi
                                          "lim" sinifon "limb, member". Pos vestigam lunik (i me vödabuk
                                          Nedänik), fino ätuvob, das dabinon vöd Nedänik semik el "schakel", kel
                                          sinifon "lim yümöl (in jän e ret). E täno ätuvob vödi Deutänapükik eli
                                          "Schäkel". Vöd at sinifon "Mit einem Schraub- oder Steckbolzen
                                          verschließbarer Bügel zum Verbinden zweier Teile" --> "boib fäilökovik
                                          me skruba- u steigastaf ad yümön dilis tel" (logolös magi),
                                          Linglänapüko, "shackle".

                                          Ekö, falaseps mödik in vödabuk ela <Arie de Jong>!
                                          Eprimob lä tonat <n> ad bevobön, as balidos, tonati ko nüpenots vemo
                                          mödiks.
                                          Suno osedob ole menodamobis obik tefü tonat "n" demü vestig e zep ola.

                                          I ya äbonedob buki ola, eli "Voms filik e konots votik". Spetob oni
                                          ko nited gretik.

                                          Ko glidis ladöfikün,
                                          Hermann


                                          Am 12.06.2012 17:31, schrieb Ralph Midgley:
                                          > O flen löfik Hermann!
                                          >
                                          > Danis lemödik demü yuf veütikün ola!
                                          >
                                          > Mutob koefön, das neföro büo äsevob, das "Backfish" äsinifon
                                          > "tivomül." Nol nulik obe, kel sion völadi pösoda, kel labon
                                          > Deutänapüki as lomänapük. E 'tungudan' id estäänükon vödemi oba!
                                          >
                                          > Vöds, kels finikons me -am binons suvo fikuliks ad gudiko tradutön
                                          > ini Linglänapük. Volapük dalabon kurati, kel anikna defon in pük
                                          > oba. Otuvol, das suvo egebob vödi Linglänik mödikna ad tradutön vödis
                                          > Volapükik labü foyümots/poyümots difik.
                                          >
                                          > Gidetol fümo, das vuls vödas no binons ai fasiliks ad dasevön.
                                          > Läükol samis gudik. Danö!
                                          >
                                          > Plidob gebi ela Cherpillod, kel ninükom vödis vula ot in bagaf
                                          > bal. Cedü ob, atos binon gudik, e yufon studanis ad lärnön vödis
                                          > vifikumo. Sekü atos, ävilob sümädön omi in tef at, ab äsä logob anu,
                                          > no ai plöpo.
                                          >
                                          > Geb ela de Jong äbinon ad dunön lisedi lafabik, e atos bo binos
                                          > gudikum. Fümo binos gudikum ad tradutön dili Linglänapük - Volapük, ab
                                          > lärnoy dunölo, no-li?
                                          >
                                          > Äsä sagol, vödabuk, do döfik, kanon pagebön anu, e fümo pro utans,
                                          > kels no sevons Deutänapüki.
                                          >
                                          > Mutob siön, das binob danöfik ole demü vob legudik, keli (o)dunol.
                                          >
                                          > Danis milnaik sedom
                                          >
                                          > Ralph.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On 12/06/2012 10:46, Hermann wrote:
                                          >> Dear Ralph,
                                          >>
                                          >> I hope to be able writing in Volapük shortly. For the time being, English will have to do.
                                          >> Today I uploaded the preliminarily complete version of your Vp-Eng dicitionary along the lines of Arie de Jong. In doing so, I noticed a few general areas requiring looking at, and I also corrected in passing a few things which cought my eyes although this was not a consideration with priority. To give some examples for the latter:
                                          >> "tivomül = fried fish". Arie de Jong gives the German "Backfish" which, indeed, normally is a fried fish. But actually, "Backfish" also is an outdated word for a female teenager which is nicely expressed by the Volapük "ti-vom-ül".
                                          >> Another example is the "tungudan = do-gooder (person)". Actually, a "tungudan" is an outdated word denoting a member of the Eastern Siberian "Tungus" people, now called "Evenks".
                                          >>
                                          >> Two general areas requiring a closer look at are:
                                          >> 1.
                                          >> Words ending in the suffix -am. Usually the English renderings are correct but sometimes there seems to be uncertainty about the meaning of this suffix. Often such words were translated as if they were adjectives or verbs, or with meanings not consistent with the meaning of this suffix. In de Jong's original, -am always denotes a verbal noun or "gerund". In German, the ending -ung is often used which, however, can mean both a result of the action and the action itself. This can be confusing for the translator. The Vp -am always denotes the action.
                                          >>
                                          >> Examples:
                                          >> "laigam = lacquer, varnish" (de Jong: Lackierung). In fact the action of varnishing or lacquering is meant.
                                          >>
                                          >> "laliadam = alloy" (de Jong: Legierung, das Legieren). De Jong's entry clarifies that "laliadam" is not the alloy as such but the action of alloying. In German, both meanings are possible.
                                          >>
                                          >> "nedöfükam = to make perfect". This looks as if "nedöfükam" were a verb. Something like "(the) perfecting / making perfect" would be more correct.
                                          >>
                                          >> The second area to be reconsidered is the arrangement of derivations pertaining to a root word. De Jong usually has separate entries for each of such derivations -- listed alphabetically so that some derivations occasionally are separated from each other by words of a different root. In the Vp-English rendering I noticed that, occasionally, words pertaining to different, unrelated roots are listed under one entry.
                                          >>
                                          >> Examples:
                                          >> "vir = swirling, whirling: viräd = swirling, whirling: vireb = vertebra (medical): virebem = spinal column: virik = swirling, whirling: virön [nel.] = to swirl, whirl."
                                          >>
                                          >> "vireb" is a different and unrelated root word (there is no suffix -eb in Vp) and should, therefore, be entered separately.
                                          >>
                                          >> "vi: vi! = oh dear! viam = lamentation: vian = wailer: vibijop = suffragan (bishop): viön [nel.] = to complain, lament: vivokäd = woeful cry: vivokädan = person who raises a woeful cry."
                                          >>
                                          >> The "vi" in vibijob" is no way related to the "vi" of the root "vi". It is a remnant of "Weih-" (meaning "consecrating") in the German "Weihbischof"
                                          >>
                                          >> I suggest that de Jong's original word order be restored to avoid such errors and to make finding a word easier.
                                          >>
                                          >> Some work to be done, still, before this dictionary is fully usable.
                                          >>
                                          >> Anyway, continued work on this should preferably use this newly uploaded version as its formatting is tolerably consistent and already contains a number of corrections.
                                          >>
                                          >> I intend to go through this dictionary again with a focus on correct meanings and disentangling entries. I do this mainly for my own linguistic enjoyment, so if you have other plans, don't feel interfered with.
                                          >>
                                          >> Glidis ladöfikün,
                                          >> Hermann
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@...> wrote:
                                          >>> O flen löfik Hermann!
                                          >>>
                                          >>> Danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob gretik, keli ya edunol tefü tradutod
                                          >>> Linglänapükik vödabuka de Jong.
                                          >>>
                                          >>> Äsä penol, tonats A - L dalabons pölis mödik bükavik. Kod atosa
                                          >>> binon, das dil at pädunon medü penamacin (bü dels nünöma). Tü tim et,
                                          >>> dü tumyel büik, flen Robertson se Skotän ävilom dunön tradutodi somik
                                          >>> kobü ob. Pos tonat 'L' ye, jiniko iperom nitedi ad atos, seko no
                                          >>> ifövob kobovobi in tef at. Ab ven flen Everson ämobom dini ot, ämemob
                                          >>> vobi ya pedunöl bü yels so mödiks. Sekü atos, äkopiedob dokümis at.
                                          >>> Kopiedöm oba binon gudik, ab no legudik - ekö kod pölas bükavik. Too
                                          >>> äbinon yuf gudik äsi kuradükam veütik. Pos kopied tefik, ästeifülob ad
                                          >>> koräkön pölis bükavik somik, ab klülabiko no äplöpob ad dunön valis.
                                          >>> Pidob, das emutol dunön koräkotis retik, e danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob
                                          >>> olik in tef at.
                                          >>>
                                          >>> Ab vöds, kelis suvo no äkanob suemön, äsä epenetol osi, äbinons
                                          >>> nems tribütas vönik, e pato notodis kiemavik, kelis ekanol jenöfo
                                          >>> tuvön. Danis dönu ole!
                                          >>>
                                          >>> Anu desinob ad kopiedön vödemi pekoräköl ola e ad plaädön tradutodi
                                          >>> obik me tradutod perevidöl ola. Sosus odunol koräkotis zesüdik votik,
                                          >>> odunob oto.
                                          >>>
                                          >>> Mil danis sedom ole Ralph.
                                          >>>
                                          >>>
                                          >>>
                                          >>>
                                          >>> On 28/05/2012 09:26, Hermann wrote:
                                          >>>> Dear Ralph,
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>> you certainly mastered a heavy workload with this new dictionary.
                                          >>>> Meanwhile I have completed those words which you had marked by '???'.
                                          >>>> Mostly it was names of ethnic groups and chemical compounds many of which are outdated.
                                          >>>> In doing this I noticed a large number of such other errors as are common to scanned documents (inconsistent formatting, false renderings of letters, no reproduction of subscripts and superscripts, inconsistent spacing, etc.) So, currently I am reviewing the dictionary to correct those errors, as well.
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>> I also noticed the large number of chemical expressions. Arie de Jong obviously was good at chemistry. However, such words burden a normal dictionary unnecessarily and should be put into a special glossary of chemical expressions. As I can see, you gave up translating them in the later parts of the dictionary.
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>> As an interim solution I have uploaded my preliminarily amended version.
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>> Glidis ladöfikün,
                                          >>>> Hermann
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>> --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@> wrote:
                                          >>>>> _FLENEF BEVÜNETIK VOLAPÜKA_
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> Tü del 19-id mayula yela 2012.
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> O flens löfik!
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> Fino edunob tradutodi vödabuka de Jong (Vp - Linglänapük).
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> Fümob, das epölob, bi no binob nepölovik. Begob olis ad gebön
                                          >>>>> tradutodi at, e ven otuvob pölis, penolsös obe, begö! ad jonön pöli
                                          >>>>> tefik. Edunob vobi, ab no kanob gudiko kontrolön, ob it, vobi oba.
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> No ai etradutob vödis ömik, bi no äkanob tuvön sinifi pötik
                                          >>>>> otas. In tef at, epenob säkamalülis kil pos vöd. Valemo äkanob
                                          >>>>> tradutön vödis Deutänapükik nulädik, ab dabinons vöds vönik, kelis
                                          >>>>> no äkanob jenöfo suemön. Flens Deutänik (äsi votikans ko nol
                                          >>>>> legudik püka) okanons bo yufön obi in tef at.
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> Gebolsös, begö! vödabuki, bi tradutod Linglänapükik at ofruton
                                          >>>>> pro utans, kels no sevons Deutänapüki, ed ekö naed balid, das
                                          >>>>> elabons tradutodi nulik.
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> Valikosi Gudikün Oles
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> sedom
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>> Ralph.
                                          >>>>>
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>> ------------------------------------
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> ------------------------------------
                                          >>
                                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • Hermann
                                          ini Linglänapüki -- ini Linglänapük Pardolsös tefü pök at!
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Aug 2, 2012
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            ini Linglänapüki --> ini Linglänapük
                                            Pardolsös tefü pök at!

                                            --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Hermann Philipps <hphilipps@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > O flen löfik Ralph,
                                            >
                                            > danis mödik pro vöds ola fleniks!
                                            > Siö! Binos fikulik tradutön vöds nen yumed seta. Pöls suvo binons
                                            > nevitovik.
                                            > Posä efimekob eli "Lehrbuch" fa el <Johann Schmidt>, nu eprimob ad
                                            > vestigön oliki tradutodi dila Vp-De ini Linglänapüki. Dü vob at, mutob
                                            > dasevön, das el <Arie de Jong> vo äsevom Deutänapüki gudiko, ab das
                                            > igo om äpöpam. As sam, vöd "limäd" = "Schake, Schakel". Deutänapük
                                            > labon ne "Schake", ne "Schakel". Ätradutol eli "limäd" as "joker,
                                            > wag" ed eli "limädön" as "to make fun of". No äkanob suemön atosi, bi
                                            > "lim" sinifon "limb, member". Pos vestigam lunik (i me vödabuk
                                            > Nedänik), fino ätuvob, das dabinon vöd Nedänik semik el "schakel", kel
                                            > sinifon "lim yümöl (in jän e ret). E täno ätuvob vödi Deutänapükik eli
                                            > "Schäkel". Vöd at sinifon "Mit einem Schraub- oder Steckbolzen
                                            > verschließbarer Bügel zum Verbinden zweier Teile" --> "boib fäilökovik
                                            > me skruba- u steigastaf ad yümön dilis tel" (logolös magi),
                                            > Linglänapüko, "shackle".
                                            >
                                            > Ekö, falaseps mödik in vödabuk ela <Arie de Jong>!
                                            > Eprimob lä tonat <n> ad bevobön, as balidos, tonati ko nüpenots vemo
                                            > mödiks.
                                            > Suno osedob ole menodamobis obik tefü tonat "n" demü vestig e zep ola.
                                            >
                                            > I ya äbonedob buki ola, eli "Voms filik e konots votik". Spetob oni
                                            > ko nited gretik.
                                            >
                                            > Ko glidis ladöfikün,
                                            > Hermann
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Am 12.06.2012 17:31, schrieb Ralph Midgley:
                                            > > O flen löfik Hermann!
                                            > >
                                            > > Danis lemödik demü yuf veütikün ola!
                                            > >
                                            > > Mutob koefön, das neföro büo äsevob, das "Backfish" äsinifon
                                            > > "tivomül." Nol nulik obe, kel sion völadi pösoda, kel labon
                                            > > Deutänapüki as lomänapük. E 'tungudan' id estäänükon vödemi oba!
                                            > >
                                            > > Vöds, kels finikons me -am binons suvo fikuliks ad gudiko tradutön
                                            > > ini Linglänapük. Volapük dalabon kurati, kel anikna defon in pük
                                            > > oba. Otuvol, das suvo egebob vödi Linglänik mödikna ad tradutön vödis
                                            > > Volapükik labü foyümots/poyümots difik.
                                            > >
                                            > > Gidetol fümo, das vuls vödas no binons ai fasiliks ad dasevön.
                                            > > Läükol samis gudik. Danö!
                                            > >
                                            > > Plidob gebi ela Cherpillod, kel ninükom vödis vula ot in bagaf
                                            > > bal. Cedü ob, atos binon gudik, e yufon studanis ad lärnön vödis
                                            > > vifikumo. Sekü atos, ävilob sümädön omi in tef at, ab äsä logob anu,
                                            > > no ai plöpo.
                                            > >
                                            > > Geb ela de Jong äbinon ad dunön lisedi lafabik, e atos bo binos
                                            > > gudikum. Fümo binos gudikum ad tradutön dili Linglänapük - Volapük, ab
                                            > > lärnoy dunölo, no-li?
                                            > >
                                            > > Äsä sagol, vödabuk, do döfik, kanon pagebön anu, e fümo pro utans,
                                            > > kels no sevons Deutänapüki.
                                            > >
                                            > > Mutob siön, das binob danöfik ole demü vob legudik, keli (o)dunol.
                                            > >
                                            > > Danis milnaik sedom
                                            > >
                                            > > Ralph.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > On 12/06/2012 10:46, Hermann wrote:
                                            > >> Dear Ralph,
                                            > >>
                                            > >> I hope to be able writing in Volapük shortly. For the time being, English will have to do.
                                            > >> Today I uploaded the preliminarily complete version of your Vp-Eng dicitionary along the lines of Arie de Jong. In doing so, I noticed a few general areas requiring looking at, and I also corrected in passing a few things which cought my eyes although this was not a consideration with priority. To give some examples for the latter:
                                            > >> "tivomül = fried fish". Arie de Jong gives the German "Backfish" which, indeed, normally is a fried fish. But actually, "Backfish" also is an outdated word for a female teenager which is nicely expressed by the Volapük "ti-vom-ül".
                                            > >> Another example is the "tungudan = do-gooder (person)". Actually, a "tungudan" is an outdated word denoting a member of the Eastern Siberian "Tungus" people, now called "Evenks".
                                            > >>
                                            > >> Two general areas requiring a closer look at are:
                                            > >> 1.
                                            > >> Words ending in the suffix -am. Usually the English renderings are correct but sometimes there seems to be uncertainty about the meaning of this suffix. Often such words were translated as if they were adjectives or verbs, or with meanings not consistent with the meaning of this suffix. In de Jong's original, -am always denotes a verbal noun or "gerund". In German, the ending -ung is often used which, however, can mean both a result of the action and the action itself. This can be confusing for the translator. The Vp -am always denotes the action.
                                            > >>
                                            > >> Examples:
                                            > >> "laigam = lacquer, varnish" (de Jong: Lackierung). In fact the action of varnishing or lacquering is meant.
                                            > >>
                                            > >> "laliadam = alloy" (de Jong: Legierung, das Legieren). De Jong's entry clarifies that "laliadam" is not the alloy as such but the action of alloying. In German, both meanings are possible.
                                            > >>
                                            > >> "nedöfükam = to make perfect". This looks as if "nedöfükam" were a verb. Something like "(the) perfecting / making perfect" would be more correct.
                                            > >>
                                            > >> The second area to be reconsidered is the arrangement of derivations pertaining to a root word. De Jong usually has separate entries for each of such derivations -- listed alphabetically so that some derivations occasionally are separated from each other by words of a different root. In the Vp-English rendering I noticed that, occasionally, words pertaining to different, unrelated roots are listed under one entry.
                                            > >>
                                            > >> Examples:
                                            > >> "vir = swirling, whirling: viräd = swirling, whirling: vireb = vertebra (medical): virebem = spinal column: virik = swirling, whirling: virön [nel.] = to swirl, whirl."
                                            > >>
                                            > >> "vireb" is a different and unrelated root word (there is no suffix -eb in Vp) and should, therefore, be entered separately.
                                            > >>
                                            > >> "vi: vi! = oh dear! viam = lamentation: vian = wailer: vibijop = suffragan (bishop): viön [nel.] = to complain, lament: vivokäd = woeful cry: vivokädan = person who raises a woeful cry."
                                            > >>
                                            > >> The "vi" in vibijob" is no way related to the "vi" of the root "vi". It is a remnant of "Weih-" (meaning "consecrating") in the German "Weihbischof"
                                            > >>
                                            > >> I suggest that de Jong's original word order be restored to avoid such errors and to make finding a word easier.
                                            > >>
                                            > >> Some work to be done, still, before this dictionary is fully usable.
                                            > >>
                                            > >> Anyway, continued work on this should preferably use this newly uploaded version as its formatting is tolerably consistent and already contains a number of corrections.
                                            > >>
                                            > >> I intend to go through this dictionary again with a focus on correct meanings and disentangling entries. I do this mainly for my own linguistic enjoyment, so if you have other plans, don't feel interfered with.
                                            > >>
                                            > >> Glidis ladöfikün,
                                            > >> Hermann
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >> --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@> wrote:
                                            > >>> O flen löfik Hermann!
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> Danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob gretik, keli ya edunol tefü tradutod
                                            > >>> Linglänapükik vödabuka de Jong.
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> Äsä penol, tonats A - L dalabons pölis mödik bükavik. Kod atosa
                                            > >>> binon, das dil at pädunon medü penamacin (bü dels nünöma). Tü tim et,
                                            > >>> dü tumyel büik, flen Robertson se Skotän ävilom dunön tradutodi somik
                                            > >>> kobü ob. Pos tonat 'L' ye, jiniko iperom nitedi ad atos, seko no
                                            > >>> ifövob kobovobi in tef at. Ab ven flen Everson ämobom dini ot, ämemob
                                            > >>> vobi ya pedunöl bü yels so mödiks. Sekü atos, äkopiedob dokümis at.
                                            > >>> Kopiedöm oba binon gudik, ab no legudik - ekö kod pölas bükavik. Too
                                            > >>> äbinon yuf gudik äsi kuradükam veütik. Pos kopied tefik, ästeifülob ad
                                            > >>> koräkön pölis bükavik somik, ab klülabiko no äplöpob ad dunön valis.
                                            > >>> Pidob, das emutol dunön koräkotis retik, e danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob
                                            > >>> olik in tef at.
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> Ab vöds, kelis suvo no äkanob suemön, äsä epenetol osi, äbinons
                                            > >>> nems tribütas vönik, e pato notodis kiemavik, kelis ekanol jenöfo
                                            > >>> tuvön. Danis dönu ole!
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> Anu desinob ad kopiedön vödemi pekoräköl ola e ad plaädön tradutodi
                                            > >>> obik me tradutod perevidöl ola. Sosus odunol koräkotis zesüdik votik,
                                            > >>> odunob oto.
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> Mil danis sedom ole Ralph.
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>>
                                            > >>> On 28/05/2012 09:26, Hermann wrote:
                                            > >>>> Dear Ralph,
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>> you certainly mastered a heavy workload with this new dictionary.
                                            > >>>> Meanwhile I have completed those words which you had marked by '???'.
                                            > >>>> Mostly it was names of ethnic groups and chemical compounds many of which are outdated.
                                            > >>>> In doing this I noticed a large number of such other errors as are common to scanned documents (inconsistent formatting, false renderings of letters, no reproduction of subscripts and superscripts, inconsistent spacing, etc.) So, currently I am reviewing the dictionary to correct those errors, as well.
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>> I also noticed the large number of chemical expressions. Arie de Jong obviously was good at chemistry. However, such words burden a normal dictionary unnecessarily and should be put into a special glossary of chemical expressions. As I can see, you gave up translating them in the later parts of the dictionary.
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>> As an interim solution I have uploaded my preliminarily amended version.
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>> Glidis ladöfikün,
                                            > >>>> Hermann
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>> --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@> wrote:
                                            > >>>>> _FLENEF BEVÜNETIK VOLAPÜKA_
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>> Tü del 19-id mayula yela 2012.
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>> O flens löfik!
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>> Fino edunob tradutodi vödabuka de Jong (Vp - Linglänapük).
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>> Fümob, das epölob, bi no binob nepölovik. Begob olis ad gebön
                                            > >>>>> tradutodi at, e ven otuvob pölis, penolsös obe, begö! ad jonön pöli
                                            > >>>>> tefik. Edunob vobi, ab no kanob gudiko kontrolön, ob it, vobi oba.
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>> No ai etradutob vödis ömik, bi no äkanob tuvön sinifi pötik
                                            > >>>>> otas. In tef at, epenob säkamalülis kil pos vöd. Valemo äkanob
                                            > >>>>> tradutön vödis Deutänapükik nulädik, ab dabinons vöds vönik, kelis
                                            > >>>>> no äkanob jenöfo suemön. Flens Deutänik (äsi votikans ko nol
                                            > >>>>> legudik püka) okanons bo yufön obi in tef at.
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>> Gebolsös, begö! vödabuki, bi tradutod Linglänapükik at ofruton
                                            > >>>>> pro utans, kels no sevons Deutänapüki, ed ekö naed balid, das
                                            > >>>>> elabons tradutodi nulik.
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>> Valikosi Gudikün Oles
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>> sedom
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>> Ralph.
                                            > >>>>>
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>> ------------------------------------
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>>>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >> ------------------------------------
                                            > >>
                                            > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >>
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ------------------------------------
                                            > >
                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • Ralph Midgley
                                            O Hermann löfik! Pidob, das edunob pöli so gretiki! Fümo spelob, das no edunob somikis tu mödikis! Jenöfo, vöd Schak- no dabinon in vödabuk, keli
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Aug 2, 2012
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                                              O Hermann löfik!

                                              Pidob, das edunob pöli so gretiki! Fümo spelob, das no edunob
                                              somikis tu mödikis!

                                              Jenöfo, vöd 'Schak-' no dabinon in vödabuk, keli gebob, ab sötob
                                              dasevön, das 'Schakel' binon vöd Linglänapükik 'Shackle' -- ag!
                                              Plao egebob vödi ''Schäk-' kel pidabiko ekodon pöli. No kanob
                                              kleilükön osi, ab äbinob bo fenik tü tim et. Danö tefü galäl olik!

                                              Dö buk fa Schmidt, keli anu efibevobol, büologob oni ko blesir
                                              mödik. Jenöfo dalabob tidodemi rigik su bleds mödik. Sevob, das
                                              Michael obükom buki jönik.

                                              Anu ureidol bo 'pötretis pepenöl' elas Michael ed Arden in gased
                                              nulikün. Sosus olabol timülis libik, vilol-li, begö! sedön obe
                                              'pötreti pepenöl' olik. Danö! Dalebüd ola labon däti : del balid
                                              setula, yela 2012. Tü dät at, Cifal osedom ole dokümi fa om it
                                              pedispenöli.

                                              Danis mödik sedom ole Ralph.


                                              On 02/08/2012 12:20, Hermann wrote:
                                              > ini Linglänapüki --> ini Linglänapük
                                              > Pardolsös tefü pök at!
                                              >
                                              > --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Hermann Philipps <hphilipps@...> wrote:
                                              >> O flen löfik Ralph,
                                              >>
                                              >> danis mödik pro vöds ola fleniks!
                                              >> Siö! Binos fikulik tradutön vöds nen yumed seta. Pöls suvo binons
                                              >> nevitovik.
                                              >> Posä efimekob eli "Lehrbuch" fa el <Johann Schmidt>, nu eprimob ad
                                              >> vestigön oliki tradutodi dila Vp-De ini Linglänapüki. Dü vob at, mutob
                                              >> dasevön,Schakel' no dabinon in vödabuk das el <Arie de Jong> vo äsevom Deutänapüki gudiko, ab das
                                              >> igo om äpöpam. As sam, vöd "limäd" = "Schake, Schakel". Deutänapük
                                              >> labon ne "Schake", ne "Schakel". Ätradutol eli "limäd" as "joker,
                                              >> wag" ed eli "limädön" as "to make fun of". No äkanob suemön atosi, bi
                                              >> "lim" sinifon "limb, member". Pos vestigam lunik (i me vödabuk
                                              >> Nedänik), fino ätuvob, das dabinon vöd Nedänik semik el "schakel", kel
                                              >> sinifon "lim yümöl (in jän e ret). E täno ätuvob vödi Deutänapükik eli
                                              >> "Schäkel". Vöd at sinifon "Mit einem Schraub- oder Steckbolzen
                                              >> verschließbarer Bügel zum Verbinden zweier Teile" --> "boib fäilökovik
                                              >> me skruba- u steigastaf ad yümön dilis tel" (logolös magi),
                                              >> Linglänapüko, "shackle".
                                              >>
                                              >> Ekö, falaseps mödik in vödabuk ela <Arie de Jong>!
                                              >> Eprimob lä tonat <n> ad bevobön, as balidos, tonati ko nüpenots vemo
                                              >> mödiks.
                                              >> Suno osedob ole menodamobis obik tefü tonat "n" demü vestig e zep ola.
                                              >>
                                              >> I ya äbonedob buki ola, eli "Voms filik e konots votik". Spetob oni
                                              >> ko nited gretik.
                                              >>
                                              >> Ko glidis ladöfikün,
                                              >> Hermann
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Am 12.06.2012 17:31, schrieb Ralph Midgley:
                                              >>> O flen löfik Hermann!
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Danis lemödik demü yuf veütikün ola!
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Mutob koefön, das neföro büo äsevob, das "Backfish" äsinifon
                                              >>> "tivomül." Nol nulik obe, kel sion völadi pösoda, kel labon
                                              >>> Deutänapüki as lomänapük. E 'tungudan' id estäänükon vödemi oba!
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Vöds, kels finikons me -am binons suvo fikuliks ad gudiko tradutön
                                              >>> ini Linglänapük. Volapük dalabon kurati, kel anikna defon in pük
                                              >>> oba. Otuvol, das suvo egebob vödi Linglänik mödikna ad tradutön vödis
                                              >>> Volapükik labü foyümots/poyümots difik.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Gidetol fümo, das vuls vödas no binons ai fasiliks ad dasevön.
                                              >>> Läükol samis gudik. Danö!
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Plidob gebi ela Cherpillod, kel ninükom vödis vula ot in bagaf
                                              >>> bal. Cedü ob, atos binon gudik, e yufon studanis ad lärnön vödis
                                              >>> vifikumo. Sekü atos, ävilob sümädön omi in tef at, ab äsä logob anu,
                                              >>> no ai plöpo.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Geb ela de Jong äbinon ad dunön lisedi lafabik, e atos bo binos
                                              >>> gudikum. Fümo binos gudikum ad tradutön dili Linglänapük - Volapük, ab
                                              >>> lärnoy dunölo, no-li?
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Äsä sagol, vödabuk, do döfik, kanon pagebön anu, e fümo pro utans,
                                              >>> kels no sevons Deutänapüki.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Mutob siön, das binob danöfik ole demü vob legudik, keli (o)dunol.
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Danis milnaik sedom
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Ralph.
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>> On 12/06/2012 10:46, Hermann wrote:
                                              >>>> Dear Ralph,
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> I hope to be able writing in Volapük shortly. For the time being, English will have to do.
                                              >>>> Today I uploaded the preliminarily complete version of your Vp-Eng dicitionary along the lines of Arie de Jong. In doing so, I noticed a few general areas requiring looking at, and I also corrected in passing a few things which cought my eyes although this was not a consideration with priority. To give some examples for the latter:
                                              >>>> "tivomül = fried fish". Arie de Jong gives the German "Backfish" which, indeed, normally is a fried fish. But actually, "Backfish" also is an outdated word for a female teenager which is nicely expressed by the Volapük "ti-vom-ül".
                                              >>>> Another example is the "tungudan = do-gooder (person)". Actually, a "tungudan" is an outdated word denoting a member of the Eastern Siberian "Tungus" people, now called "Evenks".
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> Two general areas requiring a closer look at are:
                                              >>>> 1.
                                              >>>> Words ending in the suffix -am. Usually the English renderings are correct but sometimes there seems to be uncertainty about the meaning of this suffix. Often such words were translated as if they were adjectives or verbs, or with meanings not consistent with the meaning of this suffix. In de Jong's original, -am always denotes a verbal noun or "gerund". In German, the ending -ung is often used which, however, can mean both a result of the action and the action itself. This can be confusing for the translator. The Vp -am always denotes the action.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> Examples:
                                              >>>> "laigam = lacquer, varnish" (de Jong: Lackierung). In fact the action of varnishing or lacquering is meant.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> "laliadam = alloy" (de Jong: Legierung, das Legieren). De Jong's entry clarifies that "laliadam" is not the alloy as such but the action of alloying. In German, both meanings are possible.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> "nedöfükam = to make perfect". This looks as if "nedöfükam" were a verb. Something like "(the) perfecting / making perfect" would be more correct.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> The second area to be reconsidered is the arrangement of derivations pertaining to a root word. De Jong usually has separate entries for each of such derivations -- listed alphabetically so that some derivations occasionally are separated from each other by words of a different root. In the Vp-English rendering I noticed that, occasionally, words pertaining to different, unrelated roots are listed under one entry.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> Examples:
                                              >>>> "vir = swirling, whirling: viräd = swirling, whirling: vireb = vertebra (medical): virebem = spinal column: virik = swirling, whirling: virön [nel.] = to swirl, whirl."
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> "vireb" is a different and unrelated root word (there is no suffix -eb in Vp) and should, therefore, be entered separately.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> "vi: vi! = oh dear! viam = lamentation: vian = wailer: vibijop = suffragan (bishop): viön [nel.] = to complain, lament: vivokäd = woeful cry: vivokädan = person who raises a woeful cry."
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> The "vi" in vibijob" is no way related to the "vi" of the root "vi". It is a remnant of "Weih-" (meaning "consecrating") in the German "Weihbischof"
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> I suggest that de Jong's original word order be restored to avoid such errors and to make finding a word easier.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> Some work to be done, still, before this dictionary is fully usable.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> Anyway, continued work on this should preferably use this newly uploaded version as its formatting is tolerably consistent and already contains a number of corrections.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> I intend to go through this dictionary again with a focus on correct meanings and disentangling entries. I do this mainly for my own linguistic enjoyment, so if you have other plans, don't feel interfered with.
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> Glidis ladöfikün,
                                              >>>> Hermann
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@> wrote:
                                              >>>>> O flen löfik Hermann!
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>> Danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob gretik, keli ya edunol tefü tradutod
                                              >>>>> Linglänapükik vödabuka de Jong.
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>> Äsä penol, tonats A - L dalabons pölis mödik bükavik. Kod atosa
                                              >>>>> binon, das dil at pädunon medü penamacin (bü dels nünöma). Tü tim et,
                                              >>>>> dü tumyel büik, flen Robertson se Skotän ävilom dunön tradutodi somik
                                              >>>>> kobü ob. Pos tonat 'L' ye, jiniko iperom nitedi ad atos, seko no
                                              >>>>> ifövob kobovobi in tef at. Ab ven flen Everson ämobom dini ot, ämemob
                                              >>>>> vobi ya pedunöl bü yels so mödiks. Sekü atos, äkopiedob dokümis at.
                                              >>>>> Kopiedöm oba binon gudik, ab no legudik - ekö kod pölas bükavik. Too
                                              >>>>> äbinon yuf gudik äsi kuradükam veütik. Pos kopied tefik, ästeifülob ad
                                              >>>>> koräkön pölis bükavik somik, ab klülabiko no äplöpob ad dunön valis.
                                              >>>>> Pidob, das emutol dunön koräkotis retik, e danob oli ladöfiküno demü vob
                                              >>>>> olik in tef at.
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>> Ab vöds, kelis suvo no äkanob suemön, äsä epenetol osi, äbinons
                                              >>>>> nems tribütas vönik, e pato notodis kiemavik, kelis ekanol jenöfo
                                              >>>>> tuvön. Danis dönu ole!
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>> Anu desinob ad kopiedön vödemi pekoräköl ola e ad plaädön tradutodi
                                              >>>>> obik me tradutod perevidöl ola. Sosus odunol koräkotis zesüdik votik,
                                              >>>>> odunob oto.
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>> Mil danis sedom ole Ralph.
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>>
                                              >>>>> On 28/05/2012 09:26, Hermann wrote:
                                              >>>>>> Dear Ralph,
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>>> you certainly mastered a heavy workload with this new dictionary.
                                              >>>>>> Meanwhile I have completed those words which you had marked by '???'.
                                              >>>>>> Mostly it was names of ethnic groups and chemical compounds many of which are outdated.
                                              >>>>>> In doing this I noticed a large number of such other errors as are common to scanned documents (inconsistent formatting, false renderings of letters, no reproduction of subscripts and superscripts, inconsistent spacing, etc.) So, currently I am reviewing the dictionary to correct those errors, as well.
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>>> I also noticed the large number of chemical expressions. Arie de Jong obviously was good at chemistry. However, such words burden a normal dictionary unnecessarily and should be put into a special glossary of chemical expressions. As I can see, you gave up translating them in the later parts of the dictionary.
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>>> As an interim solution I have uploaded my preliminarily amended version.
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>>> Glidis ladöfikün,
                                              >>>>>> Hermann
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>>> --- In volapuk@yahoogroups.com, Ralph Midgley<midgleyr@> wrote:
                                              >>>>>>> _FLENEF BEVÜNETIK VOLAPÜKA_
                                              >>>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>> Tü del 19-id mayula yela 2012.
                                              >>>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>> O flens löfik!
                                              >>>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>> Fino edunob tradutodi vödabuka de Jong (Vp - Linglänapük).
                                              >>>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>> Fümob, das epölob, bi no binob nepölovik. Begob olis ad gebön
                                              >>>>>>> tradutodi at, e ven otuvob pölis, penolsös obe, begö! ad jonön pöli
                                              >>>>>>> tefik. Edunob vobi, ab no kanob gudiko kontrolön, ob it, vobi oba.
                                              >>>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>> No ai etradutob vödis ömik, bi no äkanob tuvön sinifi pötik
                                              >>>>>>> otas. In tef at, epenob säkamalülis kil pos vöd. Valemo äkanob
                                              >>>>>>> tradutön vödis Deutänapükik nulädik, ab dabinons vöds vönik, kelis
                                              >>>>>>> no äkanob jenöfo suemön. Flens Deutänik (äsi votikans ko nol
                                              >>>>>>> legudik püka) okanons bo yufön obi in tef at.
                                              >>>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>> Gebolsös, begö! vödabuki, bi tradutod Linglänapükik at ofruton
                                              >>>>>>> pro utans, kels no sevons Deutänapüki, ed ekö naed balid, das
                                              >>>>>>> elabons tradutodi nulik.
                                              >>>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>> Valikosi Gudikün Oles
                                              >>>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>> sedom
                                              >>>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>> Ralph.
                                              >>>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>>> ------------------------------------
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> ------------------------------------
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>> ------------------------------------
                                              >>>
                                              >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >>>
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • Hermann Philipps
                                              O flen löfik, Ya ereidob pötretis pepenöl ela Michael ed Arden, e suno openob ed osedob pötreti oba. Glidis ladöfikün, Hermann
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Aug 2, 2012
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                                                O flen löfik,

                                                Ya ereidob 'pötretis pepenöl' ela Michael ed Arden, e suno openob ed
                                                osedob pötreti oba.

                                                Glidis ladöfikün,
                                                Hermann

                                                Am 02.08.2012 15:10, schrieb Ralph Midgley:
                                                > O Hermann löfik!
                                                >
                                                > Pidob, das edunob pöli so gretiki! Fümo spelob, das no edunob
                                                > somikis tu mödikis!
                                                >
                                                > Jenöfo, vöd 'Schak-' no dabinon in vödabuk, keli gebob, ab sötob
                                                > dasevön, das 'Schakel' binon vöd Linglänapükik 'Shackle' -- ag!
                                                > Plao egebob vödi ''Schäk-' kel pidabiko ekodon pöli. No kanob
                                                > kleilükön osi, ab äbinob bo fenik tü tim et. Danö tefü galäl olik!
                                                >
                                                > Dö buk fa Schmidt, keli anu efibevobol, büologob oni ko blesir
                                                > mödik. Jenöfo dalabob tidodemi rigik su bleds mödik. Sevob, das
                                                > Michael obükom buki jönik.
                                                >
                                                > Anu ureidol bo 'pötretis pepenöl' elas Michael ed Arden in gased
                                                > nulikün. Sosus olabol timülis libik, vilol-li, begö! sedön obe
                                                > 'pötreti pepenöl' olik. Danö! Dalebüd ola labon däti : del balid
                                                > setula, yela 2012. Tü dät at, Cifal osedom ole dokümi fa om it
                                                > pedispenöli.
                                                >
                                                > Danis mödik sedom ole Ralph.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
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