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Help finding out exactly what "Made in Japan" machine I have.

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  • terrilynn0405
    Hello Everyone, In my quest to find a sturdy and strong sewing machine to restore our upholstery in our project cars I came across a vintage machine. I brought
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 19, 2009
      Hello Everyone,

      In my quest to find a sturdy and strong sewing machine to restore our upholstery in our project cars I came across a vintage machine. I brought it home and started playing with it only to discover it had a name of Tru Sew or so I thought. I can't find any info on the machine itself. It does have a Made in Japan badge. I have included some pictures under the album terrilynn0405 if anyone out there can help me I would be forever grateful.

      Thanks in advance,

      Terri Lynn
    • Susan Juara
      ... In my quest to find a sturdy and strong sewing machine to restore our upholstery *********************************** Terry Lynn: I have a Made in Japan
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 20, 2009
        --- On Sun, 12/20/09, terrilynn0405 <terrilynn0405@...> wrote: 
        In my quest to find a sturdy and strong sewing machine to restore our upholstery
        ***********************************
        Terry Lynn: I have a Made in Japan Fleetwood that could be a Twin of yours, even the color is the same.
        Is my husband machine as we use it to stitch those blue tarps sold everywhere to make  new covers in the umbrellas that go over our Koi Pond to keep the Sun off the fish as they can get sunburn, they won't last over 3 or 4 years and at over $100.00 each, making new covers come to about $20.00 each, as the frames still good we put the silver side facing out, we have not problems with it, just we use the larger stitch.
        I was told that is a Clone of the Singer Model 15 and uses the same bobbin and case.
        Have Nice Holidays and Good Weather.
        Susan in South Carolina.; Sunny but Cold.

        Ode to those that died for us and others: So here's to departed brothers, may they rest in peace. There is no glory in war, only survivors.
        Treasure their memory, even if they were consider our enemies.







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jeffrey
        You should check the underside of the machine for any numbers starting with J-A or J-C and compare them against whaT S been recorded in the database section.
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 20, 2009
          You should check the underside of the machine for any numbers starting with J-A or J-C and compare them against whaT'S been recorded in the database section. That might give you the originating company. Overall your machine is commonly called an HA-1 or type 15 clone. It seem a lot of Japaneese manufactures took the Singer 15-91 design and gave it their own touches here and there then sold it to stores and distributers around the world. The way the light is integrated into the casing on yours is not like the Singer machines, and probable means that it wasn't one of the more direct early copies. Also a lot of the early 50's ones were black like singer. It still has the greek decal work though and a name plate that looks mid to late 50's. You can find a generic HA-1 manual in the file section.

          Jeff


          --- In vintagejapansewingmachines@yahoogroups.com, "terrilynn0405" <terrilynn0405@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Hello Everyone,
          >
          > In my quest to find a sturdy and strong sewing machine to restore our upholstery in our project cars I came across a vintage machine. I brought it home and started playing with it only to discover it had a name of Tru Sew or so I thought. I can't find any info on the machine itself. It does have a Made in Japan badge. I have included some pictures under the album terrilynn0405 if anyone out there can help me I would be forever grateful.
          >
          > Thanks in advance,
          >
          > Terri Lynn
          >
        • Bill Holman
          I can t find any info on the machine itself. It does have a Made in Japan badge. I have included some pictures under the album terrilynn0405 if anyone out
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 20, 2009
            "I can't find any info on the machine itself. It does have a Made in Japan badge. I have included some pictures under the album terrilynn0405 if anyone out there can help me I would be forever grateful."

            Terri Lynn,

            Same answer as about 3 messages ago. Look at message # 2537.

            Bill Holman
          • Ray Revette
            ... This information is not correct at all and needs to be corrected. The Singer 15-91 was NEVER cloned by anyone - ever. The Japanese cloned the 15-80 mostly
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 20, 2009
              > You should check the underside of the machine for any numbers starting
              > with J-A or J-C and compare them against whaT'S been recorded in the
              > database section. That might give you the originating company. Overall
              > your machine is commonly called an HA-1 or type 15 clone. It seem a
              > lot of Japaneese manufactures took the Singer 15-91 design and gave it
              > their own touches here and there then sold it to stores and
              > distributers around the world. The way the light is integrated into
              > the casing on yours is not like the Singer machines, and probable
              > means that it wasn't one of the more direct early copies. Also a lot
              > of the early 50's ones were black like singer. It still has the greek
              > decal work though and a name plate that looks mid to late 50's. You
              > can find a generic HA-1 manual in the file section.

              This information is not correct at all and needs to be corrected. The Singer 15-91 was
              NEVER cloned by anyone - ever. The Japanese cloned the 15-80 mostly and
              changed all of them a little. The lights moved about, the color was changed, the way
              the race opened was changed, the feed dogs drop was changed but the design
              remained the same. Some were made bettewr than others and smoother operating
              and nicer stitching but they all had the same general design that was the Singer 25
              class.

              For thoes interested the Singer 15-91 and the Singer 201 had the potted motor and
              was gear driven but they were never copied or cloned.

              The better clones were the ones sold by WHITE. They are better made sewing
              machines. Juki made a clone with the revolving thread takeup system that is very fine
              but it is a 15 class clone with a different thread takeup.
              ...........
              Ray/FL

              Visit http://vintagesewingmachine.net BUY/SELL activity regarding Vintage
              Sewing Machines is the fun and pleasure of the moment.
            • Jeffrey
              I said called and in many places it is Overall ... I made a mistake on a model number. So far I ve seen a White, Adler, Universal, and others that except for
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 21, 2009
                I said called and in many places it is

                Overall
                > > your machine is commonly called an HA-1 or type 15 clone.

                I made a mistake on a model number. So far I've seen a White, Adler, Universal, and others that except for minor difference were almost Identical to a Singer.

                What would you call a machine that was almost identical to a machine that was previously on the market? Has Singer ever licensed other companies to build class 15 machines?

                It seem a
                > > lot of Japaneese manufactures took the Singer 15-91 design and gave it
                > > their own touches here and there then sold it to stores and
                > > distributers around the world.

                Please point out all the other mistakes I have made.

                Please add all the other information that would help this person, so that they do not get mislead by all this obvious misinformation.

                >
                > > You should check the underside of the machine for any numbers starting
                > > with J-A or J-C and compare them against whaT'S been recorded in the
                > > database section. That might give you the originating company. The way the light is integrated into
                > > the casing on yours is not like the Singer machines, and probable
                > > means that it wasn't one of the more direct early copies. Also a lot
                > > of the early 50's ones were black like singer. It still has the greek
                > > decal work though and a name plate that looks mid to late 50's. You
                > > can find a generic HA-1 manual in the file section.
                >


                Jeff
              • dbiberdorf
                ... Saying it s not correct at all seems a bit harsh. It seems that Jeff s comment is MOSTLY correct, apart from the reference to a specific model 15 (the
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 23, 2009
                  --- In vintagejapansewingmachines@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Revette" <rrevette@...> wrote:
                  > > Overall your machine is commonly called an HA-1 or type 15 clone. It seem a
                  > > lot of Japaneese manufactures took the Singer 15-91 design ...
                  >
                  > This information is not correct at all and needs to be corrected. The Singer
                  > 15-91 was NEVER cloned by anyone - ever. ...
                  > Some were made bettewr than others and smoother operating and nicer stitching
                  > but they all had the same general design that was the Singer 25 class.

                  Saying it's "not correct at all" seems a bit harsh. It seems that
                  Jeff's comment is MOSTLY correct, apart from the reference to a
                  specific model 15 (the 15-91, which was unique in the 15 line for its
                  potted motor and gear drive). My own experience says that the HA-1
                  machines look to be a hybrid of the 15-80 (particularly with regard
                  to the bobbin case) and the 15-89 (feed dogs that drop), with the
                  many other enhancements one sees on these machines.

                  I'm rather new to collecting sewing machines, but I've never heard
                  of a Singer 25 class machine. Do you have a photo of a typical one?
                  I'd like to know what I should be looking for.
                • McKenna Linn
                  ... For a brief time in the 1870s, the Providence Tool Company in Rhode Island, USA, made machines for Singer, although not class 15. In the 1940s, Singer had
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 23, 2009
                    On 12/23/09 8:54 AM, Jeff wrote:

                    > Has Singer ever licensed other companies to build
                    > class 15 machines?

                    For a brief time in the 1870s, the Providence Tool Company in Rhode Island,
                    USA, made machines for Singer, although not class 15. In the 1940s, Singer
                    had some sort of alliance--details unclear--with the Pine Company in Japan.
                    There is speculation that that's where the "15 clones" started.

                    McKenna Linn
                    http://www.mckennalinn.com
                    http://www.grandmotherssewingmachine.com
                    http://www.necchilady.com
                  • Tim Slattery
                    Anyone know the story on this Model 15 replica with a Singer label?
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 23, 2009
                      Anyone know the story on this Model 15 replica with a Singer label?

                      http://www.allbrands.com/products/abp07138.html?ovchn=SPRI&ovcpn=Froogle&ovcrn=Froogle&ovtac=CMP

                      Tim






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jeffrey
                      That looks like one of the centenial machines. I hadn t heard of them using the Sphynx decal on that series though. For the 100th Aniversary they produced some
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 23, 2009
                        That looks like one of the centenial machines. I hadn't heard of them using the Sphynx decal on that series though. For the 100th Aniversary they produced some models with the older style of decals and cases. Some things like the handles on the cases were slightly different from the original.

                        Jeff

                        --- In vintagejapansewingmachines@yahoogroups.com, Tim Slattery <singerslatts@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Anyone know the story on this Model 15 replica with a Singer label?
                        >
                        > http://www.allbrands.com/products/abp07138.html?ovchn=SPRI&ovcpn=Froogle&ovcrn=Froogle&ovtac=CMP
                        >
                        > Tim
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • texaspineywoods@flash.net
                        ... Uncle Bill Holman can fill you in on this when he finishes celebrating Christmas! BJ
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 23, 2009
                          > For a brief time in the 1870s, the Providence Tool Company in Rhode
                          > Island,
                          > USA, made machines for Singer, although not class 15. In the 1940s, Singer
                          > had some sort of alliance--details unclear--with the Pine Company in
                          > Japan.
                          > There is speculation that that's where the "15 clones" started.

                          "Uncle" Bill Holman can fill you in on this when he finishes celebrating
                          Christmas!

                          BJ
                        • Mark Purcell
                          That looks like one of the new machines coming out of Viet Nam, Pakistan or Taiwan. I don t know but I m told Singer Model 15s are still being made in those
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 24, 2009
                            That looks like one of the new machines coming out of Viet Nam, Pakistan or
                            Taiwan.
                            I don't know but I'm told Singer Model 15s are still being made in those
                            places, as well as somewhere in Africa. I bid on one on Ebay recently but
                            got swooped. Mark


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Bill Holman
                            Anyone know the story on this Model 15 replica with a Singer label? Cheap, Chinese made HA-1, made in a factory that Singer may own a part of, and sold new
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 24, 2009
                              "Anyone know the story on this Model 15 replica with a Singer label?"

                              Cheap, Chinese made HA-1, made in a factory that Singer may own a part of, and sold new by Singer as a "nostalgia model."

                              Bill Holman
                            • Tim Slattery
                              Thanks for the info.  I thought figured it was either a Japanese or Chinese licensed reproduction from something I read related to this earlier.  I also
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 24, 2009
                                Thanks for the info.  I thought figured it was either a Japanese or
                                Chinese licensed reproduction from something I read related to this
                                earlier.  I also understand they don't have the same stitch quality as
                                the real thing.

                                Tim






                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Ruth Carman-Esser
                                ... Tim, there are currently treadles and handcranks being made in China that are very close replicas of vintage machines. Differences: they are new, the
                                Message 15 of 19 , Dec 24, 2009
                                  > Tim wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Anyone know the story on this Model 15 replica with a Singer label?

                                  Tim, there are currently treadles and handcranks being made in China
                                  that are very close replicas of vintage machines. Differences: they are
                                  new, the decals are re-interpreted with brighter colors and I've heard
                                  they are not precision-made. I have the opportunity to try one out, a
                                  friend has bought one but I haven't gotten a chance to give it a test
                                  run yet.

                                  Ruth in rural south Jersey
                                • bjgates@flash.net
                                  ... A word of caution when looking at one of these brightly colored machines in an advertisement..... there were some Singer 15K110s made in Kilbowie about
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Dec 26, 2009
                                    --- In vintagejapansewingmachines@yahoogroups.com, Tim Slattery <singerslatts@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Thanks for the info.  I figured it was either a Japanese or
                                    > Chinese licensed reproduction from something

                                    A word of caution when looking at one of these brightly colored machines in an advertisement..... there were some Singer 15K110s made in Kilbowie about 1957-59 with feed dog throwout knobs on the base, like the Japanese made machines, and many of them have Sphinx decals that are brighter in color that the old ones. Unless you can examine the machine, check the serial number etc. you can be fooled. I embarrassed myself mightily with one of these once. A few may have have the RAF decals, as well.

                                    BJ
                                  • Jeffrey
                                    Recap: Somewhere around 1950 Japaneese companies started producing Variations of the HA-1. For some reason these looked a lot like Singer 15-8X machines. So
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Dec 26, 2009
                                      Recap: Somewhere around 1950 Japaneese companies started producing Variations of the HA-1. For some reason these looked a lot like Singer 15-8X machines. So far no one has found an official agreement between Singer and any of the Japaneese companies to produce these machines. In 1951 Singer celebrated their Centenial and produced Bentwood cases and decaled machines in vintage styles. Some Japaneese companies produced machines that looked similar, but put them in stand cases. One such company distributed under the badge Universal. Pictures of some of these are in the photo section. Like many machines, variations on the basic theme were produced and eventually some derivatives that looked very different from the original. Nelco, Morse, and several other distributors carried machines that mechanically were similar to HA-1's but the casings were totally diferent.

                                      In the 70's Singer had some dealings with Japaneese companies.

                                      >For quite some time, Singer wanted to take advantage of the Japanese
                                      pricing, but the Japanese govt prevented them from doing so. I believe
                                      it was in the late 70s that they finally managed to import a couple of
                                      models from the Pine SM Co, of which they owned a part. I didn't
                                      bother this AM to re-look up all the details, but I recall that if you
                                      Google the Pine Sewing Machine Company of Japan, you should be able to
                                      find out a lot of the history.

                                      >Bill Holman<

                                      No indications so far that any of these were HA-1's.

                                      Recently Singer contracted with some Asian companies, at least one in China, to produce HA-1 type machines for the nostalgia market. Like the Centenial machines these have Bentwood cases and reproductions of earlier decals. There are variations in the color of the decals, design of the case, and basic mechanicals from the original design.

                                      Jeff
                                    • McKenna Linn
                                      ... There is a trade-publication announcement dated 1956 that says quite clearly that The Pine Company was making machines in Japan that would be produced
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Dec 28, 2009
                                        On 12/28/09 8:55 AM, Jeff wrote:

                                        > In the 70's Singer had some dealings with Japaneese companies.

                                        There is a trade-publication announcement dated 1956 that says quite clearly
                                        that The Pine Company was making machines in Japan that would be produced
                                        under the Singer brand name and sold to Singer for export to the U.S. If
                                        you're a NeedleBar member, you can read the clip yourself.

                                        McKenna Linn
                                        http://www.mckennalinn.com
                                        http://www.grandmotherssewingmachine.com
                                        http://www.necchilady.com
                                      • BERNARD POKORSKI
                                        Hi, Regarding the Japanese-built Singer machines, I have a Singer Model 223 Fashion Mate that was built by Pine during the Pine-Singer association. It s a
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Dec 30, 2009
                                          Hi,

                                          Regarding the Japanese-built Singer machines, I have a Singer Model 223 'Fashion Mate' that was built by Pine during the Pine-Singer association.

                                          It's a 'heavy' machine, and a photo of it is available at this link;

                                          http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/1474197002074179466HwOjTL



                                          Regards, Bernie....A Little Bit South of Grass Valley, CA
                                          'Son of a Singer Man'
                                          http://community.webshots.com/user/sonofasingerman
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