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Re: Some TOhtml issues

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  • Nikolay Pavlov
    ... problem with these characters too, though it is different gaps problem (gap between input with sign or line number and adjacent lines). The real problem is
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 3, 2013
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      On Sep 4, 2013 6:16 AM, "Ben Fritz" <fritzophrenic@...> wrote:
      >
      > On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 3:30:51 PM UTC-5, ZyX wrote:
      > >
      > > The problem here is not gaps, they are standable. In fact, I have gaps problem with these characters too, though it is different gaps problem (gap between input with sign or line number and adjacent lines). The real problem is incorrect diff, and this is not.
      >
      > Ah, so would I be correct to phrase the problem as "enough gaps on one side of a diff can make the other side align the incorrect line content"?

      I guess no. You cannot see this on screenshot, but such tall characters do not cause stairs. That means line height is the same as the tallest character. And that also means diff is incorrect due to too tall lines. And this stacks with gaps... Screenshots were taken from Opera (12.*). But the only thing that differs in firefox is that gaps are a few pixels smaller. Chromium does not have gaps. But lines with some characters are still too tall to cause problems. You can check by yourself: file used to generate diff is http://sourceforge.net/p/formatvim/code/ci/default/tree/test/concealed.tex.

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    • ZyX
      Yet another problems: now allfolds equivalent (named dynamic_folds in TOhtml) + chromium: 1. Fold column has variable width, including some cases when this
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 9, 2013
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        Yet another problems: now allfolds equivalent (named dynamic_folds in TOhtml) + chromium:

        1. Fold column has variable width, including some cases when this seems to be not intentional: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9152/9151298.3/0_9eb17_5de67bee_orig.png (1.png).
        2. Different position of fold ends. Seems that problem is with font (does not look like monospace one despite the font-family): http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9349/9151298.3/0_9eb1a_56ac6077_orig.png (2-1.png).

        Problems are seen in chromium , firefox is not affected, Opera is, but a) not that bad (http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9302/9151298.3/0_9eb19_2ff9a18_orig.png (2-2.png)), b) only if zoom is active and beyond 100% and c) it is Opera 12, versions above this switched to use chromium.

        Tested on chromium-29.0.1547.57 (Gentoo stable) and chromium-30.0.1599.22 (Gentoo ~amd64).

        Am not sure there is a way to fix this other then hacking font configuration somewhere or patching the browser: if you search for “chromium monospace” you will get a bunch of reports that monospace font is not monospace. If you search for “firefox monospace” you will get more specific issues.

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      • Ben Fritz
        ... Are there actually a variable number of characters shown, or is this also related to font? ... Is this because there is actually a font *named* Monospace
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 9, 2013
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          On Monday, September 9, 2013 6:39:23 AM UTC-5, ZyX wrote:
          > Yet another problems: now allfolds equivalent (named dynamic_folds in TOhtml) + chromium:
          >
          >
          >
          > 1. Fold column has variable width, including some cases when this seems to be not intentional: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9152/9151298.3/0_9eb17_5de67bee_orig.png (1.png).
          >

          Are there actually a variable number of characters shown, or is this also related to font?

          > 2. Different position of fold ends. Seems that problem is with font (does not look like monospace one despite the font-family): http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9349/9151298.3/0_9eb1a_56ac6077_orig.png (2-1.png).
          >
          >

          Is this because there is actually a font *named* "Monospace" on Linux, which is a proportional font?

          >
          > Problems are seen in chromium , firefox is not affected, Opera is, but a) not that bad (http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9302/9151298.3/0_9eb19_2ff9a18_orig.png (2-2.png)), b) only if zoom is active and beyond 100% and c) it is Opera 12, versions above this switched to use chromium.
          >
          >
          >
          > Tested on chromium-29.0.1547.57 (Gentoo stable) and chromium-30.0.1599.22 (Gentoo ~amd64).
          >
          >
          >
          > Am not sure there is a way to fix this other then hacking font configuration somewhere or patching the browser: if you search for “chromium monospace” you will get a bunch of reports that monospace font is not monospace. If you search for “firefox monospace” you will get more specific issues.

          On my TODO list is an item to detect the actual font being used by Vim (falling back to "monospace" as a last resort). There is already an option to specify the font (though it is awkward to use if you want to have a comma-separated list). Maybe I should fix that up to be easier to use and recommend that people actually use it (like the recommendation to specify encoding explicitly)?

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        • ZyX
          ... Only to font. Number of characters is the same. ... ôlö glyph looks differently in chromium (2-1.png) and in kcharselect with Monospace selected
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 11, 2013
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            > Are there actually a variable number of characters shown, or is this also related to font?

            Only to font. Number of characters is the same.

            > Is this because there is actually a font *named* "Monospace" on Linux, which is a proportional font?

            “l” glyph looks differently in chromium (2-1.png) and in kcharselect with Monospace selected (2-2.png).

            2-1.png: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9356/9151298.3/0_9ec11_7f2bc7af_orig.png
            2-2.png: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9492/9151298.3/0_9ec12_aef63d40_orig.png

            . Also “Monospace” is not a proportional font.

            > >
            > > Problems are seen in chromium , firefox is not affected, Opera is, but a) not that bad (http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9302/9151298.3/0_9eb19_2ff9a18_orig.png (2-2.png)), b) only if zoom is active and beyond 100% and c) it is Opera 12, versions above this switched to use chromium.
            > >
            > > Tested on chromium-29.0.1547.57 (Gentoo stable) and chromium-30.0.1599.22 (Gentoo ~amd64).
            > >
            > > Am not sure there is a way to fix this other then hacking font configuration somewhere or patching the browser: if you search for “chromium monospace” you will get a bunch of reports that monospace font is not monospace. If you search for “firefox monospace” you will get more specific issues.
            >
            > On my TODO list is an item to detect the actual font being used by Vim (falling back to "monospace" as a last resort). There is already an option to specify the font (though it is awkward to use if you want to have a comma-separated list). Maybe I should fix that up to be easier to use and recommend that people actually use it (like the recommendation to specify encoding explicitly)?

            Maybe set default to a list of common monospace fonts with an addition of “, monospace” as the very last resort for browser? Chromium has too many users to just ignore this problem.

            Google code uses the following as font family: “Monaco,'DejaVu Sans Mono','Bitstream Vera Sans Mono','Lucida Console',monospace”.
            Github: “Consolas,"Liberation Mono",Courier,monospace”.
            Bitbucket: “"Bitstream Vera Sans Mono","DejaVu Sans Mono",Monaco,monospace”.

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          • Ben Fritz
            ... Why would the same font look different in different browsers?! ... No? I know people have had trouble using it in Vim before, at least one person decided
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 11, 2013
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              On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 7:16:29 AM UTC-5, ZyX wrote:
              > > Are there actually a variable number of characters shown, or is this also related to font?
              >
              >
              >
              > Only to font. Number of characters is the same.
              >
              >
              >
              > > Is this because there is actually a font *named* "Monospace" on Linux, which is a proportional font?
              >
              >
              >
              > “l” glyph looks differently in chromium (2-1.png) and in kcharselect with Monospace selected (2-2.png).
              >
              >
              >
              > 2-1.png: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9356/9151298.3/0_9ec11_7f2bc7af_orig.png
              >
              > 2-2.png: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9492/9151298.3/0_9ec12_aef63d40_orig.png
              >
              >

              Why would the same font look different in different browsers?!

              >
              > . Also “Monospace” is not a proportional font.
              >
              >


              No? I know people have had trouble using it in Vim before, at least one person decided it was because that font wasn't actually fixed-width:

              https://groups.google.com/d/msg/vim_use/DxSsvfzVAFI/ZbWBJrmHlsUJ

              If the 'monospace' font has variable-width characters, isn't it by definition not actually monospace then? I'm a little frustrated to discover there's a font with a name matching a generic family name at all; it prevents any webpage from setting the default user-selected monospace font. But as you say, there are going to be a lot of people using it...

              >
              > > On my TODO list is an item to detect the actual font being used by Vim (falling back to "monospace" as a last resort). There is already an option to specify the font (though it is awkward to use if you want to have a comma-separated list). Maybe I should fix that up to be easier to use and recommend that people actually use it (like the recommendation to specify encoding explicitly)?
              >
              >
              >
              > Maybe set default to a list of common monospace fonts with an addition of “, monospace” as the very last resort for browser? Chromium has too many users to just ignore this problem.
              >
              >

              Yes, that's what i meant by "as a last resort". This sounds like a reasonable alternative, to put a list of common fonts in there. The user could always override that.

              >
              > Google code uses the following as font family: “Monaco,'DejaVu Sans Mono','Bitstream Vera Sans Mono','Lucida Console',monospace”.
              >
              > Github: “Consolas,"Liberation Mono",Courier,monospace”.
              >
              > Bitbucket: “"Bitstream Vera Sans Mono","DejaVu Sans Mono",Monaco,monospace”.

              Thanks. I'll probably try implementing:

              1. detect font used by Vim if possible
              2. fall back to DejaVu/Consolas/Bitstream Vera/Monaco in some order
              3. Fall back to "monospace" which *intends* to select a generic font family, but apparently on some systems is an actual font name which might not be fixed-width after all

              Any hints on getting font name from X/Motif fonts? Windows fonts and GTK fonts aren't too bad...

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            • ZyX
              ... Because it is not the same font. I have font ôMonospaceö, but not ômonospaceö. Also all browsers seem to be fine with this collision: neither firefox,
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 11, 2013
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                > Why would the same font look different in different browsers?!

                Because it is not the same font. I have font “Monospace”, but not “monospace”. Also all browsers seem to be fine with this collision: neither firefox, nor opera (12: presto), nor chromium use font named “Monospace”. I can’t say what chromium actually uses because computed style contains “monospace” while Opera shows “DejaVu Sans Mono”. If I read correctly firefox uses “Droid Sans Mono” and “PowerlineSymbols” for the element at a time (due to fontconfig configuration second one is expected; it contains powerline-specific glyphs and nothing more) (computed style again contains only “monospace”, but there is a special tab named “Fonts” in built-in debugger).

                > No? I know people have had trouble using it in Vim before, at least one person decided it was because that font wasn't actually fixed-width:
                > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/vim_use/DxSsvfzVAFI/ZbWBJrmHlsUJ
                > If the 'monospace' font has variable-width characters, isn't it by definition not actually monospace then? I'm a little frustrated to discover there's a font with a name matching a generic family name at all; it prevents any webpage from setting the default user-selected monospace font. But as you say, there are going to be a lot of people using it...

                Previously I only tried it with terminal. For proportional fonts terminal displays too large gaps, for Monospace it does not. Also it is fine in gvim: I checked now.

                > > Maybe set default to a list of common monospace fonts with an addition of “, monospace” as the very last resort for browser? Chromium has too many users to just ignore this problem.
                >
                > Yes, that's what i meant by "as a last resort". This sounds like a reasonable alternative, to put a list of common fonts in there. The user could always override that.

                <...>

                > Thanks. I'll probably try implementing:
                >
                > 1. detect font used by Vim if possible
                > 2. fall back to DejaVu/Consolas/Bitstream Vera/Monaco in some order
                > 3. Fall back to "monospace" which *intends* to select a generic font family, but apparently on some systems is an actual font name which might not be fixed-width after all

                3. was not the problem. I just tried creating font named "monospace" (note: lowercase first letter) and it started to be actually used by chromium, firefox and opera. But font named “Monospace” (uppercase first letter) is *not*. It is a different issue which occurs on chromium only.

                > Any hints on getting font name from X/Motif fonts? Windows fonts and GTK fonts aren't too bad...

                No idea.

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              • LCD 47
                On 11 September 2013, Ben Fritz wrote: [...] ... [...] There is no collision. Simplifying, you can think of Monospace as an alias
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 11, 2013
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                  On 11 September 2013, Ben Fritz <fritzophrenic@...> wrote:
                  [...]
                  > I'm a little frustrated to discover there's a font with a name
                  > matching a generic family name at all; it prevents any webpage from
                  > setting the default user-selected monospace font.
                  [...]

                  There is no collision. Simplifying, you can think of "Monospace" as
                  an alias to a "real" name, that looks something like this:

                  -misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-120-75-75-c-60-iso10646-1

                  There are standard mechanisms to change these aliases, which allows
                  things like themes and skins to take effect on all programs system-wide.
                  Nothing stops you to alias "Monospace" to a proportional width font, but
                  then you deserve what you get. :)

                  /lcd

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                • Nikolay Pavlov
                  ... You are likely true (I failed to find file with font Monospace yet such font can be chosen and fc-list knows nothing about it, neither does KDE
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 11, 2013
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                    On Sep 12, 2013 12:40 AM, "LCD 47" <lcd047@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > On 11 September 2013, Ben Fritz <fritzophrenic@...> wrote:
                    > [...]
                    > > I'm a little frustrated to discover there's a font with a name
                    > > matching a generic family name at all; it prevents any webpage from
                    > > setting the default user-selected monospace font.
                    > [...]
                    >
                    >     There is no collision.  Simplifying, you can think of "Monospace" as
                    > an alias to a "real" name, that looks something like this:
                    >
                    > -misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-120-75-75-c-60-iso10646-1
                    >
                    >     There are standard mechanisms to change these aliases, which allows
                    > things like themes and skins to take effect on all programs system-wide.
                    > Nothing stops you to alias "Monospace" to a proportional width font, but
                    > then you deserve what you get. :)
                    >
                    >     /lcd

                    You are likely true (I failed to find file with font "Monospace" yet such font can be chosen and fc-list knows nothing about it, neither does KDE systemsettings), but that is not the case: as indicated earlier browsers choose different fonts for "monospace" that are not equal to "Monospace".

                    By the way, do you know a way to determine what is actually used when I request font "Monospace"? As I said fc-list does not work. In /etc/fonts there are lists for "monospace" (lowercase) family, but "Monospace" string is only present in comments.

                    Also interesting fact: after I added font named "monospace" for testing purposes "Monospace" disappeared. Reappeared again when it was removed.

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                  • LCD 47
                    ... As I understand it Monospace is a Pango thing, and Pango is a member of the Gnome tribe. Now, members of the Gnome tribe don t socialize with members of
                    Message 9 of 19 , Sep 12, 2013
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                      On 12 September 2013, Nikolay Pavlov <zyx.vim@...> wrote:
                      > On Sep 12, 2013 12:40 AM, "LCD 47" <lcd047@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > On 11 September 2013, Ben Fritz <fritzophrenic@...> wrote:
                      > > [...]
                      > > > I'm a little frustrated to discover there's a font with a name
                      > > > matching a generic family name at all; it prevents any webpage
                      > > > from setting the default user-selected monospace font.
                      > > [...]
                      > >
                      > > There is no collision. Simplifying, you can think of
                      > > "Monospace" as an alias to a "real" name, that looks something like
                      > > this:
                      > >
                      > > -misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-120-75-75-c-60-iso10646-1
                      > >
                      > > There are standard mechanisms to change these aliases,
                      > > which allows things like themes and skins to take effect on all
                      > > programs system-wide. Nothing stops you to alias "Monospace" to a
                      > > proportional width font, but then you deserve what you get. :)
                      > >
                      > > /lcd
                      >
                      > You are likely true (I failed to find file with font "Monospace" yet
                      > such font can be chosen and fc-list knows nothing about it, neither
                      > does KDE systemsettings), but that is not the case: as indicated
                      > earlier browsers choose different fonts for "monospace" that are not
                      > equal to "Monospace".

                      As I understand it Monospace is a Pango thing, and Pango is a member
                      of the Gnome tribe. Now, members of the Gnome tribe don't socialize
                      with members of the KDE tribe; so there you have it. :)

                      http://xkcd.com/927/

                      > By the way, do you know a way to determine what is actually used
                      > when I request font "Monospace"? As I said fc-list does not work. In
                      > /etc/fonts there are lists for "monospace" (lowercase) family, but
                      > "Monospace" string is only present in comments.
                      [...]

                      I don't know much about that, sorry. I suppose digging through
                      Pango docs might be a reasonable starting point.

                      /lcd

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                    • Marius Gedminas
                      ... fc-match Monospace It s a fontconfig thing, nothing to do with Pango. Marius Gedminas -- I may not understand what I m installing, but that s not my job.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 12, 2013
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                        On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:39:01PM +0300, LCD 47 wrote:
                        > On 12 September 2013, Nikolay Pavlov <zyx.vim@...> wrote:
                        > > You are likely true (I failed to find file with font "Monospace" yet
                        > > such font can be chosen and fc-list knows nothing about it, neither
                        > > does KDE systemsettings), but that is not the case: as indicated
                        > > earlier browsers choose different fonts for "monospace" that are not
                        > > equal to "Monospace".
                        >
                        > As I understand it Monospace is a Pango thing, and Pango is a member
                        > of the Gnome tribe. Now, members of the Gnome tribe don't socialize
                        > with members of the KDE tribe; so there you have it. :)
                        >
                        > http://xkcd.com/927/
                        >
                        > > By the way, do you know a way to determine what is actually used
                        > > when I request font "Monospace"? As I said fc-list does not work. In
                        > > /etc/fonts there are lists for "monospace" (lowercase) family, but
                        > > "Monospace" string is only present in comments.

                        fc-match Monospace

                        It's a fontconfig thing, nothing to do with Pango.

                        Marius Gedminas
                        --
                        "I may not understand what I'm installing, but that's not my job. I
                        just need to click Next, Next, Finish here so I can walk to the next
                        system and repeat the process"
                        -- Anonymous NT Admin
                      • LCD 47
                        ... Sorry, but no. That looks for a font with family Monospace (case insensitive). When Vim is compiled with Gtk, gvim uses Pango. /lcd -- -- You received
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 12, 2013
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                          On 12 September 2013, Marius Gedminas <marius@...> wrote:
                          > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:39:01PM +0300, LCD 47 wrote:
                          > > On 12 September 2013, Nikolay Pavlov <zyx.vim@...> wrote:
                          > > > You are likely true (I failed to find file with font "Monospace" yet
                          > > > such font can be chosen and fc-list knows nothing about it, neither
                          > > > does KDE systemsettings), but that is not the case: as indicated
                          > > > earlier browsers choose different fonts for "monospace" that are not
                          > > > equal to "Monospace".
                          > >
                          > > As I understand it Monospace is a Pango thing, and Pango is a member
                          > > of the Gnome tribe. Now, members of the Gnome tribe don't socialize
                          > > with members of the KDE tribe; so there you have it. :)
                          > >
                          > > http://xkcd.com/927/
                          > >
                          > > > By the way, do you know a way to determine what is actually used
                          > > > when I request font "Monospace"? As I said fc-list does not work. In
                          > > > /etc/fonts there are lists for "monospace" (lowercase) family, but
                          > > > "Monospace" string is only present in comments.
                          >
                          > fc-match Monospace
                          >
                          > It's a fontconfig thing, nothing to do with Pango.

                          Sorry, but no. That looks for a font with family Monospace (case
                          insensitive). When Vim is compiled with Gtk, gvim uses Pango.

                          /lcd

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                        • Nikolay Pavlov
                          ... member ... It is DejaVu Sans Mono on my system. Nothing to do with Pango. Pango is installed. ... vim_dev group. ... email to
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 12, 2013
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                            On Sep 12, 2013 2:19 PM, "LCD 47" <lcd047@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > On 12 September 2013, Marius Gedminas <marius@...> wrote:
                            > > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:39:01PM +0300, LCD 47 wrote:
                            > > > On 12 September 2013, Nikolay Pavlov <zyx.vim@...> wrote:
                            > > > > You are likely true (I failed to find file with font "Monospace" yet
                            > > > > such font can be chosen and fc-list knows nothing about it, neither
                            > > > > does KDE systemsettings), but that is not the case: as indicated
                            > > > > earlier browsers choose different fonts for "monospace" that are not
                            > > > > equal to "Monospace".
                            > > >
                            > > >     As I understand it Monospace is a Pango thing, and Pango is a member
                            > > > of the Gnome tribe.  Now, members of the Gnome tribe don't socialize
                            > > > with members of the KDE tribe; so there you have it. :)
                            > > >
                            > > >     http://xkcd.com/927/
                            > > >
                            > > > > By the way, do you know a way to determine what is actually used
                            > > > > when I request font "Monospace"? As I said fc-list does not work. In
                            > > > > /etc/fonts there are lists for "monospace" (lowercase) family, but
                            > > > > "Monospace" string is only present in comments.
                            > >
                            > > fc-match Monospace
                            > >
                            > > It's a fontconfig thing, nothing to do with Pango.
                            >
                            >     Sorry, but no.  That looks for a font with family Monospace (case
                            > insensitive).  When Vim is compiled with Gtk, gvim uses Pango.
                            >
                            >     /lcd

                            It is DejaVu Sans Mono on my system. Nothing to do with Pango. Pango is installed.

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                          • LCD 47
                            ... I take that back, you re mostly right: fc-match looks for the closest match, f.i. $ fc-match blahblah DejaVuSans.ttf: DejaVu Sans Book It also works
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 12, 2013
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                              On 12 September 2013, LCD 47 <lcd047@...> wrote:
                              > On 12 September 2013, Marius Gedminas <marius@...> wrote:
                              > > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:39:01PM +0300, LCD 47 wrote:
                              > > > On 12 September 2013, Nikolay Pavlov <zyx.vim@...> wrote:
                              > > > > You are likely true (I failed to find file with font "Monospace"
                              > > > > yet such font can be chosen and fc-list knows nothing about
                              > > > > it, neither does KDE systemsettings), but that is not the
                              > > > > case: as indicated earlier browsers choose different fonts for
                              > > > > "monospace" that are not equal to "Monospace".
                              > > >
                              > > > As I understand it Monospace is a Pango thing, and Pango is a
                              > > > member of the Gnome tribe. Now, members of the Gnome tribe don't
                              > > > socialize with members of the KDE tribe; so there you have it. :)
                              > > >
                              > > > http://xkcd.com/927/
                              > > >
                              > > > > By the way, do you know a way to determine what is actually used
                              > > > > when I request font "Monospace"? As I said fc-list does not
                              > > > > work. In /etc/fonts there are lists for "monospace" (lowercase)
                              > > > > family, but "Monospace" string is only present in comments.
                              > >
                              > > fc-match Monospace
                              > >
                              > > It's a fontconfig thing, nothing to do with Pango.
                              >
                              > Sorry, but no. That looks for a font with family Monospace (case
                              > insensitive). When Vim is compiled with Gtk, gvim uses Pango.

                              I take that back, you're mostly right: fc-match looks for the
                              closest match, f.i.

                              $ fc-match blahblah
                              DejaVuSans.ttf: "DejaVu Sans" "Book"

                              It also works from gvim, in the sense that setting guifont to "blahblah"
                              will actually load the DejaVu Sans font. But the name Monospace itself
                              comes from Pango.

                              /lcd

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