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Re: compatibility with Sun's original vi for command :su

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  • Christian Brabandt
    ... No it isn t. The standard allows either :su or :suspend but none of the other ways. The same is true for :substitute, either use :s or :substitute. There
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 25, 2013
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      On Tue, June 25, 2013 13:16, Tony Mechelynck wrote:
      > On 25/06/13 11:15, Christian Brabandt wrote:
      >> On Mon, June 24, 2013 23:54, Paul Maier wrote:
      >>> Hi,
      >>>
      >>> the original vi on Sun took :su as :suspend,
      >>> whereas vim takes :su as :substitute.
      >>>
      >>> I am very used to typing :su.
      >>>
      >>> Would it be possible for VIM 7.4 to add a new compatibility flag to
      >>> cpoptions
      >>> about the meaning of :su ?
      >>>
      >>> suggested compatible flag: :su = :suspend, :s = :substitute
      >>> without the flag: :su = :substitute
      >>>
      >>
      >> Looks like a bug to me. POSIX also requires :su to be used for
      >> :suspend (http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xcu/ex.html)
      >>
      >> Do we need a new cpo setting here, or should it be enough to
      >> patch vim to take :su as :suspend?
      >
      > Looks like a feature, not a bug, to me. Vim does not always follow what
      > the POSIX pundits decreed from their high thrones that vi “must” do,
      > especially not in 'nocompatible' mode but not even in 'compatible' mode,
      > unless $VIM_POSIX is set (or the individual POSIX flags are set in
      > addition to the 'compatible' ones).
      >
      > The Vim documentation clearly specifies :s[ubstitute], :sus[pend],
      > st[op], which, in the notation used in Vim help files, means that:
      > :s
      > :su
      > :sub
      > :subs
      > :subst
      > :substi
      > :substit
      > :substitu
      > :substitut
      > :substitute
      > all mean the same,
      >
      > and (since :stop and :suspend are synonymous not only in Vim but also in
      > vi and ex):
      > :sus
      > :susp
      > :suspe
      > :suspen
      > :suspend
      > :st
      > :sto
      > :stop
      > also all mean the same.
      >
      > IMHO the mention of s[ubstitute] and su[spend] in the POSIX manual is
      > where the bug lies, since it implies that :su would mean _both_ :suspend
      > and :substitute.

      No it isn't. The standard allows either :su or :suspend
      but none of the other ways. The same is true for :substitute,
      either use :s or :substitute. There is no ambiguity as you claim.

      > Since the popular :s command is a well-known
      > abbreviation for :substitute, it follows (by analogy with all other
      > ex-commands used in Vim) that :su, :sub, :subs, etc. mean the same. An

      We also already have :si (which is short for :s using i flag), but :sil
      is used for :silent and :sl is used for sleep.

      > additional letter must be used for :sus[pend] to avoid ambiguity, or
      > people who want to press as few keys as possible, :st[op] comes to the
      > rescue.
      > To have :s = :substitute, :su = :suspend, :sub = :substitute would be
      > illogical and would add an element of surprise for people like me, who
      > never used legacy vi.

      Why. Do you use :su instead of :s? I don't see how that would be surprising
      but instead it would be more logically to users of the old vanilla vi.

      > A cabbrev has been given for those who want it this way nevertheless. Do
      > we need an additional POSIX flag in 'cpoptions' and a change in the C
      > code? I personally doubt its utility.

      regards,
      Christian

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    • Ben Fritz
      ... FWIW, there is an explicit :help tag for :su meaning :substitute. -- -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 25, 2013
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        On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 7:36:34 AM UTC-5, Christian Brabandt wrote:
        > On Tue, June 25, 2013 13:16, Tony Mechelynck wrote:
        >
        > > IMHO the mention of s[ubstitute] and su[spend] in the POSIX manual is
        >
        > > where the bug lies, since it implies that :su would mean _both_ :suspend
        >
        > > and :substitute.
        >
        >
        >
        > No it isn't. The standard allows either :su or :suspend
        >
        > but none of the other ways. The same is true for :substitute,
        >
        > either use :s or :substitute. There is no ambiguity as you claim.
        >
        >
        >
        > > Since the popular :s command is a well-known
        >
        > > abbreviation for :substitute, it follows (by analogy with all other
        >
        > > ex-commands used in Vim) that :su, :sub, :subs, etc. mean the same. An
        >
        >
        >
        > We also already have :si (which is short for :s using i flag), but :sil
        >
        > is used for :silent and :sl is used for sleep.
        >

        FWIW, there is an explicit :help tag for :su meaning :substitute.

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      • Bram Moolenaar
        ... The POSIX spec has a bug: it says that :s means :substitute, which means anything starting with :s means :substitute, including :su. But then ... Relevant
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 25, 2013
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          Christian Brabandt wrote:

          > On Mon, June 24, 2013 23:54, Paul Maier wrote:
          > > Hi,
          > >
          > > the original vi on Sun took :su as :suspend,
          > > whereas vim takes :su as :substitute.
          > >
          > > I am very used to typing :su.
          > >
          > > Would it be possible for VIM 7.4 to add a new compatibility flag to
          > > cpoptions
          > > about the meaning of :su ?
          > >
          > > suggested compatible flag: :su = :suspend, :s = :substitute
          > > without the flag: :su = :substitute
          > >
          >
          > Looks like a bug to me. POSIX also requires :su to be used for
          > :suspend (http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xcu/ex.html)
          >
          > Do we need a new cpo setting here, or should it be enough to
          > patch vim to take :su as :suspend?

          The POSIX spec has a bug: it says that :s means :substitute, which means
          anything starting with :s means :substitute, including :su. But then
          :suspend can be abbreviated to :su, that's a conflict.

          Relevant quotes:

          For each of the commands listed below, the command can be
          entered as the abbreviation (those characters in the Synopsis
          command word preceding the [), the full command (all characters
          shown for the command word, omitting the [ and ]), or any subset
          of the characters of the full command down to the abbreviation.
          For example, the args command (shown as ar[gs] in the Synopsis)
          can be entered as ar, arg or args.

          [...]

          Substitute

          Synopsis: [range] s[ubstitute] [/pattern/repl/[options] [count] [flags]]

          [...]

          Suspend

          Synopsis: su[spend][!]


          Making an exception for :su to mean :suspend instead of :substitute
          would be weird.

          --
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          /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
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        • Marcin Szamotulski
          ... Hi, You can use my command alias plugin and type :su and get :suspend: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=4250 (it is also on github:
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 25, 2013
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            On 22:54 Tue 25 Jun , Bram Moolenaar wrote:
            >
            > Christian Brabandt wrote:
            >
            > > On Mon, June 24, 2013 23:54, Paul Maier wrote:
            > > > Hi,
            > > >
            > > > the original vi on Sun took :su as :suspend,
            > > > whereas vim takes :su as :substitute.
            > > >
            > > > I am very used to typing :su.
            > > >
            > > > Would it be possible for VIM 7.4 to add a new compatibility flag to
            > > > cpoptions
            > > > about the meaning of :su ?
            > > >
            > > > suggested compatible flag: :su = :suspend, :s = :substitute
            > > > without the flag: :su = :substitute
            > > >
            > >
            > > Looks like a bug to me. POSIX also requires :su to be used for
            > > :suspend (http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xcu/ex.html)
            > >
            > > Do we need a new cpo setting here, or should it be enough to
            > > patch vim to take :su as :suspend?
            >
            > The POSIX spec has a bug: it says that :s means :substitute, which means
            > anything starting with :s means :substitute, including :su. But then
            > :suspend can be abbreviated to :su, that's a conflict.
            >
            > Relevant quotes:
            >
            > For each of the commands listed below, the command can be
            > entered as the abbreviation (those characters in the Synopsis
            > command word preceding the [), the full command (all characters
            > shown for the command word, omitting the [ and ]), or any subset
            > of the characters of the full command down to the abbreviation.
            > For example, the args command (shown as ar[gs] in the Synopsis)
            > can be entered as ar, arg or args.
            >
            > [...]
            >
            > Substitute
            >
            > Synopsis: [range] s[ubstitute] [/pattern/repl/[options] [count] [flags]]
            >
            > [...]
            >
            > Suspend
            >
            > Synopsis: su[spend][!]
            >
            >
            > Making an exception for :su to mean :suspend instead of :substitute
            > would be weird.

            Hi,

            You can use my command alias plugin and type :su and get :suspend:

            http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=4250

            (it is also on github: https://github.com/coot/cmdalias_vim)

            Best regards,
            Marcin

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