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Issue 16 in vim: [PATCH] Missing comma in usr_10.txt

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  • vim@googlecode.com
    Status: New Owner: ---- Labels: Type-Defect Priority-Medium New issue 16 by shlomif: [PATCH] Missing comma in usr_10.txt
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 25, 2011
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      Status: New
      Owner: ----
      Labels: Type-Defect Priority-Medium

      New issue 16 by shlomif: [PATCH] Missing comma in usr_10.txt
      http://code.google.com/p/vim/issues/detail?id=16

      "In chapter 4 several ways to make small changes were explained." - missing
      comma after "4". Patch attached.

      Attachments:
      vim.diff 595 bytes

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    • vim@googlecode.com
      Updates: Status: WontFix Comment #1 on issue 16 by brammool...@gmail.com: [PATCH] Missing comma in usr_10.txt http://code.google.com/p/vim/issues/detail?id=16
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 25, 2011
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        Updates:
        Status: WontFix

        Comment #1 on issue 16 by brammool...@...: [PATCH] Missing comma in
        usr_10.txt
        http://code.google.com/p/vim/issues/detail?id=16

        It reads fine without the comma.

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      • vim@googlecode.com
        Comment #2 on issue 16 by shlomif: [PATCH] Missing comma in usr_10.txt http://code.google.com/p/vim/issues/detail?id=16 It does not read fine to me and other
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 27, 2011
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          Comment #2 on issue 16 by shlomif: [PATCH] Missing comma in usr_10.txt
          http://code.google.com/p/vim/issues/detail?id=16

          It does not read fine to me and other people:

          <rindolf> Hi all. http://paste.debian.net/121122/ - “In chapter 4 several
          ways to make small changes were explained.” - I think there should be a
          comma after the “chapter 4” - am I right?
          <Elench> I'd use one, yes
          <rindolf> Elench: are you talking to me?
          <Elench> rindolf: yes, sorry
          <rindolf> Elench: OK.
          <rindolf> Elench: thanks.
          <Elench> Np

          Also see: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22in%20chapter%22 .

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        • vim@googlecode.com
          Comment #3 on issue 16 by ben...@benizi.com: [PATCH] Missing comma in usr_10.txt http://code.google.com/p/vim/issues/detail?id=16 Style guides for English
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 27, 2011
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            Comment #3 on issue 16 by ben...@...: [PATCH] Missing comma in
            usr_10.txt
            http://code.google.com/p/vim/issues/detail?id=16

            Style guides for English generally recommend using commas for introductory
            phrases of more than four or five words. Because "in chapter 4" is only
            three words, it's okay to omit it. Four or five is a general rule of
            thumb, not an absolute.

            Your search returned many results about "Chapter X" bankruptcy (where X = 7
            or 11 or 13). Perhaps a better example search is:
            http://www.google.com/search?q=%22in+chapter+%2A+we%22 (more likely to be
            found in prose)

            It's split fairly evenly on the first couple results pages between using
            the comma or not.

            Other references:

            Yahoo! Style Guide:
            http://styleguide.yahoo.com/editing/punctuate-proficiently/commas
            Setting off introductory elements - uses 4+ as the rule of thumb).

            The Economist Style Guide:
            http://www.economist.com/research/styleGuide/index.cfm?page=805695 (comma
            not necessary after a short phrase at the start)

            Many more at:
            http://www.google.com/search?q=style+guide+comma+introductory+phrase

            Several of the top results in that search point out that short introductory
            phrases often require a judgment call.

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          • sc
            ... there could be a comma there, but so what -- there can also not be one, and adding one doesn t add a thing to the clarity of the sentence -- i ve been an
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 27, 2011
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              On Monday, June 27, 2011 04:43:23 vim@... wrote:

              > Comment #2 on issue 16 by shlomif: [PATCH] Missing comma in
              > usr_10.txt http://code.google.com/p/vim/issues/detail?id=16

              > It does not read fine to me and other people:

              > <rindolf> Hi all. http://paste.debian.net/121122/ - "In
              > chapter 4 several ways to make small changes were explained."
              > - I think there should be a comma after the "chapter 4" - am
              > I right?

              there could be a comma there, but so what -- there can also not
              be one, and adding one doesn't add a thing to the clarity of
              the sentence -- i've been an english speaker all my life (long
              time) and IMHO it reads fine without a comma

              it's starting to sound to me as if someone's got too much time
              on their hands

              sc

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            • Mike Williams
              ... There is nothing quite like a bit of bike-shedding at the end of the working day ;-) The introductory paragraph does seem a little stilted. Usually this
              Message 6 of 8 , Jun 27, 2011
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                On 27/06/2011 16:57, sc wrote:
                > On Monday, June 27, 2011 04:43:23 vim@... wrote:
                >
                >> Comment #2 on issue 16 by shlomif: [PATCH] Missing comma in
                >> usr_10.txt http://code.google.com/p/vim/issues/detail?id=16
                >
                >> It does not read fine to me and other people:
                >
                >> <rindolf> Hi all. http://paste.debian.net/121122/ - "In
                >> chapter 4 several ways to make small changes were explained."
                >> - I think there should be a comma after the "chapter 4" - am
                >> I right?
                >
                > there could be a comma there, but so what -- there can also not
                > be one, and adding one doesn't add a thing to the clarity of
                > the sentence -- i've been an english speaker all my life (long
                > time) and IMHO it reads fine without a comma
                >
                > it's starting to sound to me as if someone's got too much time
                > on their hands

                There is nothing quite like a bit of bike-shedding at the end of the
                working day ;-)

                The introductory paragraph does seem a little stilted. Usually this is
                a sign that a rewrite would help. Doing just the first sentence would give:

                Chapter 4 explained several ways to make small changes.

                Combining with the second sentence seems a nicer still:

                Where chapter 4 explained several ways to make small changes, this
                chapter goes into making changes that are repeated or can affect a
                large amount of text.

                And to be honest the last couple of sentences seem a bit stiff as well.
                How about.

                Blocks of test can be changed with Visual mode, and more complicated
                changes can be done using an external program.

                2p's worth.

                Mike
                --
                A young doctor means a new graveyard. - German proverb

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              • sc
                ... fine -- i ll go there if it s stilted it s because of the use of the phrase goes into -- if i had a power drunk english teacher who insisted i re-write
                Message 7 of 8 , Jun 27, 2011
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                  On Monday, June 27, 2011 11:49:15 Mike Williams wrote:

                  > On 27/06/2011 16:57, sc wrote:
                  > > On Monday, June 27, 2011 04:43:23 vim@... wrote:
                  > >> Comment #2 on issue 16 by shlomif: [PATCH] Missing comma in
                  > >> usr_10.txt http://code.google.com/p/vim/issues/detail?id=16
                  > >>
                  > >> It does not read fine to me and other people:
                  > >>
                  > >> <rindolf> Hi all. http://paste.debian.net/121122/ - "In
                  > >> chapter 4 several ways to make small changes were
                  > >> explained." - I think there should be a comma after the
                  > >> "chapter 4" - am I right?
                  > >
                  > > there could be a comma there, but so what -- there can also
                  > > not be one, and adding one doesn't add a thing to the
                  > > clarity of the sentence -- i've been an english speaker all
                  > > my life (long time) and IMHO it reads fine without a comma
                  > >
                  > > it's starting to sound to me as if someone's got too much
                  > > time on their hands

                  > There is nothing quite like a bit of bike-shedding at the end
                  > of the working day ;-)

                  > The introductory paragraph does seem a little stilted.
                  > Usually this is a sign that a rewrite would help. Doing just
                  > the first sentence would give:

                  > Chapter 4 explained several ways to make small changes.

                  > Combining with the second sentence seems a nicer still:

                  > Where chapter 4 explained several ways to make small
                  > changes, this chapter goes into making changes that are
                  > repeated or can affect a large amount of text.

                  > And to be honest the last couple of sentences seem a bit stiff
                  > as well. How about.

                  > Blocks of test can be changed with Visual mode, and more
                  > complicated changes can be done using an external program.

                  > 2p's worth.

                  fine -- i'll go there

                  if it's stilted it's because of the use of the phrase "goes
                  into" -- if i had a power drunk english teacher who insisted i
                  re-write it i'd take

                  In chapter 4 several ways to make small changes were
                  explained. This chapter goes into making changes that are
                  repeated or can affect a large amount of text.

                  and change it to read:

                  In chapter 4 we explained several ways to make small changes.
                  In this chapter we'll discuss methods of repeating changes and
                  ways of affecting a large amount of text.

                  thus changing passive voice to active and eliminating the
                  "goes into" heresy

                  happy?

                  sc

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                • Mike Williams
                  ... Ecstatic :-) Mike -- It s psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I ll get a saw. -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post!
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jun 28, 2011
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                    On 27/06/2011 22:23, sc wrote:
                    > On Monday, June 27, 2011 11:49:15 Mike Williams wrote:
                    >
                    >> On 27/06/2011 16:57, sc wrote:
                    >>> On Monday, June 27, 2011 04:43:23 vim@... wrote:
                    >>>> Comment #2 on issue 16 by shlomif: [PATCH] Missing comma in
                    >>>> usr_10.txt http://code.google.com/p/vim/issues/detail?id=16
                    >>>>
                    >>>> It does not read fine to me and other people:
                    >>>>
                    >>>> <rindolf> Hi all. http://paste.debian.net/121122/ - "In
                    >>>> chapter 4 several ways to make small changes were
                    >>>> explained." - I think there should be a comma after the
                    >>>> "chapter 4" - am I right?
                    >>>
                    >>> there could be a comma there, but so what -- there can also
                    >>> not be one, and adding one doesn't add a thing to the
                    >>> clarity of the sentence -- i've been an english speaker all
                    >>> my life (long time) and IMHO it reads fine without a comma
                    >>>
                    >>> it's starting to sound to me as if someone's got too much
                    >>> time on their hands
                    >
                    >> There is nothing quite like a bit of bike-shedding at the end
                    >> of the working day ;-)
                    >
                    >> The introductory paragraph does seem a little stilted.
                    >> Usually this is a sign that a rewrite would help. Doing just
                    >> the first sentence would give:
                    >
                    >> Chapter 4 explained several ways to make small changes.
                    >
                    >> Combining with the second sentence seems a nicer still:
                    >
                    >> Where chapter 4 explained several ways to make small
                    >> changes, this chapter goes into making changes that are
                    >> repeated or can affect a large amount of text.
                    >
                    >> And to be honest the last couple of sentences seem a bit stiff
                    >> as well. How about.
                    >
                    >> Blocks of test can be changed with Visual mode, and more
                    >> complicated changes can be done using an external program.
                    >
                    >> 2p's worth.
                    >
                    > fine -- i'll go there
                    >
                    > if it's stilted it's because of the use of the phrase "goes
                    > into" -- if i had a power drunk english teacher who insisted i
                    > re-write it i'd take
                    >
                    > In chapter 4 several ways to make small changes were
                    > explained. This chapter goes into making changes that are
                    > repeated or can affect a large amount of text.
                    >
                    > and change it to read:
                    >
                    > In chapter 4 we explained several ways to make small changes.
                    > In this chapter we'll discuss methods of repeating changes and
                    > ways of affecting a large amount of text.
                    >
                    > thus changing passive voice to active and eliminating the
                    > "goes into" heresy
                    >
                    > happy?

                    Ecstatic :-)

                    Mike
                    --
                    It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw.

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