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Re: Logo / Icon contribution

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  • Tim Cuthbertson
    On May 3, 12:01 pm, Tony Mechelynck ... Mostly subjective reasons, but the lack of antialiasing and the limited colour use I
    Message 1 of 17 , May 3, 2011
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      On May 3, 12:01 pm, Tony Mechelynck <antoine.mechely...@...>
      wrote:
      > On 02/05/11 12:03, Tim Cuthbertson wrote:
      >
      > > Hi all,
      >
      > > I love vim, but must admit to not being so fond of the fairly old
      > > looking icon. I recently created a new logo for my own use, and would
      > > be more than happy if you'd like to use it for an actual app icon or
      > > logo.
      >
      > > I'm happy to release it under pretty much whatever licence is
      > > required, if people want to modify / improve it.
      >
      > > The icon can be found here:
      > >http://gfxmonk.net/2011/04/25/new-gvim-icon.html
      >
      > > svg:http://gfxmonk.net/images/vim-logo/vim-logo.svg
      > > png:http://gfxmonk.net/images/vim-logo/vim-logo-128.png
      >
      > > Cheers,
      > >   - Tim.
      >
      > What's wrong with that old icon?

      Mostly subjective reasons, but the lack of antialiasing and the
      limited colour use I think are concrete aspects that make the logo
      look particularly outdated. And the subjective opinions are at least
      shared by most who have participated in this thread (so far).

      > Doesn't anyone use low resolutions
      > and/or 256-colour terminals anymore (even in the deepest of the jungles
      > where Vim might be in use on 4th-hand computers even if Vista isn't
      > supported by them)?

      Perhaps there is need for a fallback icon with safe colours for the
      minority of users who run their graphical environment in 256-colour,
      but I doubt it should be the default.

      > I have a 48x48 Vim icon on my desktop and it doesn't look out of place
      > next to SeaMonkey, Thunderbird, Adobe Reader and YaST.

      I'm running fedora 15 w/ gnome-shell, which features pretty large
      icons (~96px, I think). Vim looks extremely out of place. In my
      applications list, there is not a single other application that lacks
      antialiasing, nor one that sticks to any palette of "safe" colours. So
      yes, I'm certainly viewing most of my icons larger than most folk
      right now, but the trend is nonetheless for bigger icons.

      > BTW, the HTML textbooks I have here still mention "safe" GUI colours,
      > which are colours where the red, green and blue components are each a
      > multiple of 0x33 (in #rrggbb notation) or of 3 (in "abbreviated"
      > 3-nybble #rgb notation). This means there are 6^3 = 216 "safe" colours.

      Is your point that there are plenty of safe colours to use, or simply
      that conservative icons should stick to safe colours only? I haven't
      read a HTML book for a long time, but I also don't know any web
      developer who still actually sticks to safe colours.

      Regards,
      - Tim.

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    • Tim Cuthbertson
      ... Yes, that is a problem. I am not too concerned about it for my own personal use (I never see it smaller than ~86px), but I expect smaller variants would
      Message 2 of 17 , May 3, 2011
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        On May 3, 8:18 am, "Christian J. Robinson" <hept...@...> wrote:
        > On Mon, 2 May 2011, Tim Cuthbertson wrote:
        > > I love vim, but must admit to not being so fond of the fairly old
        > > looking icon. I recently created a new logo for my own use, and
        > > would be more than happy if you'd like to use it for an actual app
        > > icon or logo.
        >
        > I like this icon, but my problem is that it looks increasingly poor as
        > it is scaled down in size.  The small size on my taskbar looks
        > significantly worse than the default icon.
        >
        > - Christian

        Yes, that is a problem. I am not too concerned about it for my own
        personal use (I never see it smaller than ~86px), but I expect smaller
        variants would need to be created which increased contrast / line
        width for better representation at smaller sizes. If required I can
        have a go at doing this (or others can, the .svg is the original
        inkscape source), but I'd rather not bother if nobody is going to
        actually use it.

        Regards,
        - Tim.

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      • Ben Schmidt
        ... I quite like the icon, too. I agree the old one (which in recent times, I ve only seen in Windows), looks a bit dated if nothing else. Another icon to look
        Message 3 of 17 , May 3, 2011
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          >>> I love vim, but must admit to not being so fond of the fairly old
          >>> looking icon. I recently created a new logo for my own use, and
          >>> would be more than happy if you'd like to use it for an actual app
          >>> icon or logo.

          I quite like the icon, too. I agree the old one (which in recent times, I've only
          seen in Windows), looks a bit dated if nothing else.

          Another icon to look at/consider/etc. is the MacVim icon which, likewise, tried to
          modernise the old Vim icon somewhat, and I think did quite well. Can't remember
          when it was done, who did it, or anything. But it has been rendered at multiple
          sizes, and there are scripts that also create document icons with the MacVim badge
          and file extension printed on them for different file types. AFAIK, pretty much
          everything needed for this is in the MacVim git repository. The icon format is
          Mac-specific, I think, but it could probably be converted if other platforms would
          like to use it. I'm sure people are free to.

          Ben.


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        • Gary Johnson
          ... I do like the looks of your design, but I have no need for large icons. I cover my desktop with windows. The icons I use are in the panel/taskbar and
          Message 4 of 17 , May 3, 2011
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            On 2011-05-03, Tim Cuthbertson wrote:
            > On May 3, 8:18 am, "Christian J. Robinson" wrote:
            > > On Mon, 2 May 2011, Tim Cuthbertson wrote:
            > > > I love vim, but must admit to not being so fond of the fairly old
            > > > looking icon. I recently created a new logo for my own use, and
            > > > would be more than happy if you'd like to use it for an actual app
            > > > icon or logo.
            > >
            > > I like this icon, but my problem is that it looks increasingly poor as
            > > it is scaled down in size.  The small size on my taskbar looks
            > > significantly worse than the default icon.
            > >
            > > - Christian
            >
            > Yes, that is a problem. I am not too concerned about it for my own
            > personal use (I never see it smaller than ~86px), but I expect smaller
            > variants would need to be created which increased contrast / line
            > width for better representation at smaller sizes. If required I can
            > have a go at doing this (or others can, the .svg is the original
            > inkscape source), but I'd rather not bother if nobody is going to
            > actually use it.

            I do like the looks of your design, but I have no need for large
            icons. I cover my desktop with windows. The icons I use are in the
            panel/taskbar and measure about 24x24. They need to be uniquely
            identifiable and should look nice at that size.

            The tiny icon used in the Windows Quick Launch, for example, is
            crisp and easy to identify. In contrast, the icon that appears in
            the Fedora 11 panel is an unreadable blue-green blob that I've
            learned to associate with gvim only through frequent use.

            Regards,
            Gary

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          • Tony Mechelynck
            ... I suppose it may depend on display resolution. Mine is 1024x768, and all my desktop icons are 48x48px. My taskbar icons, hm, what size are they? 20x20
            Message 5 of 17 , May 5, 2011
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              On 03/05/11 10:31, Tim Cuthbertson wrote:
              >
              >
              > On May 3, 12:01 pm, Tony Mechelynck<antoine.mechely...@...>
              > wrote:
              >> On 02/05/11 12:03, Tim Cuthbertson wrote:
              >>
              >>> Hi all,
              >>
              >>> I love vim, but must admit to not being so fond of the fairly old
              >>> looking icon. I recently created a new logo for my own use, and would
              >>> be more than happy if you'd like to use it for an actual app icon or
              >>> logo.
              >>
              >>> I'm happy to release it under pretty much whatever licence is
              >>> required, if people want to modify / improve it.
              >>
              >>> The icon can be found here:
              >>> http://gfxmonk.net/2011/04/25/new-gvim-icon.html
              >>
              >>> svg:http://gfxmonk.net/images/vim-logo/vim-logo.svg
              >>> png:http://gfxmonk.net/images/vim-logo/vim-logo-128.png
              >>
              >>> Cheers,
              >>> - Tim.
              >>
              >> What's wrong with that old icon?
              >
              > Mostly subjective reasons, but the lack of antialiasing and the
              > limited colour use I think are concrete aspects that make the logo
              > look particularly outdated. And the subjective opinions are at least
              > shared by most who have participated in this thread (so far).
              >
              >> Doesn't anyone use low resolutions
              >> and/or 256-colour terminals anymore (even in the deepest of the jungles
              >> where Vim might be in use on 4th-hand computers even if Vista isn't
              >> supported by them)?
              >
              > Perhaps there is need for a fallback icon with safe colours for the
              > minority of users who run their graphical environment in 256-colour,
              > but I doubt it should be the default.
              >
              >> I have a 48x48 Vim icon on my desktop and it doesn't look out of place
              >> next to SeaMonkey, Thunderbird, Adobe Reader and YaST.
              >
              > I'm running fedora 15 w/ gnome-shell, which features pretty large
              > icons (~96px, I think). Vim looks extremely out of place. In my
              > applications list, there is not a single other application that lacks
              > antialiasing, nor one that sticks to any palette of "safe" colours. So
              > yes, I'm certainly viewing most of my icons larger than most folk
              > right now, but the trend is nonetheless for bigger icons.

              I suppose it may depend on display resolution. Mine is 1024x768, and all
              my desktop icons are 48x48px. My taskbar icons, hm, what size are they?
              20x20 maybe? Or 16x16?

              >
              >> BTW, the HTML textbooks I have here still mention "safe" GUI colours,
              >> which are colours where the red, green and blue components are each a
              >> multiple of 0x33 (in #rrggbb notation) or of 3 (in "abbreviated"
              >> 3-nybble #rgb notation). This means there are 6^3 = 216 "safe" colours.
              >
              > Is your point that there are plenty of safe colours to use, or simply
              > that conservative icons should stick to safe colours only? I haven't
              > read a HTML book for a long time, but I also don't know any web
              > developer who still actually sticks to safe colours.
              >
              > Regards,
              > - Tim.
              >

              Well, nowadays I suppose it's no crime to "stray" away from these
              so-called "safe" colours, and in fact most of the pictures I see use
              colours outside these 216. OTOH, when creating flat-colour designs (or
              selecting text background and foreground colours) with only a few
              different hues, I try to stick to "safe" colours if I can get a nice
              result that way (call me conservative if you wish); of course for
              photographs, or even for drawings imitating round volumes with
              progressive shading, the question is different.


              Best regards,
              Tony.
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            • Ben Fritz
              I m not very fond of the icon. I think it is the very rounded diamond which looks like a street sign, and possibly the character spacing in the text. I do like
              Message 6 of 17 , May 5, 2011
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                I'm not very fond of the icon. I think it is the very rounded diamond
                which looks like a street sign, and possibly the character spacing in
                the text. I do like the gradient on the diamond and the font looks
                fairly nice. But I'd probably get used to it if it became standard.

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              • Dominique Pellé
                ... I like the color gradient and antialiasing, but I also find that the diamond is too rounded (matter of taste of course). I would also prefer a monospace
                Message 7 of 17 , May 5, 2011
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                  Ben Fritz wrote:

                  > I'm not very fond of the icon. I think it is the very rounded diamond
                  > which looks like a street sign, and possibly the character spacing in
                  > the text. I do like the gradient on the diamond and the font looks
                  > fairly nice. But I'd probably get used to it if it became standard.

                  I like the color gradient and antialiasing, but I also find that the
                  diamond is too rounded (matter of taste of course). I would also
                  prefer a monospace font for a Vim logo (such as Courier).

                  Regards
                  -- Dominique

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                • Andy Spencer
                  ... Overall, I like it, the style is good, I like the background especially. I do have a couple suggestions though. Mostly, the V just doesn t seem to stand
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 6, 2011
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                    On 2011-05-02 03:02, Tim Cuthbertson wrote:
                    > I love vim, but must admit to not being so fond of the fairly old
                    > looking icon. I recently created a new logo for my own use, and would
                    > be more than happy if you'd like to use it for an actual app icon or
                    > logo.

                    Overall, I like it, the style is good, I like the background especially.
                    I do have a couple suggestions though.

                    Mostly, the V just doesn't seem to stand out as well as in the old logo,
                    there could be a couple reasons for this:

                    - The overall contrast of your new logo is much less than the original.
                    This is a bit more noticeable when looking at greyscale versions of
                    the logos [1]. The outlines and highlights in particular. Likewise the
                    bright spot on the background seems almost brighter than the V itself.

                    [1] http://andy753421.ath.cx/linked/vim-new.png

                    - The dot on the i, and the top of the im in general, are very prominent
                    features of your logo. I like the im style, but I don't think it
                    should be more prominent than the V. On lower res images it might be
                    worth getting rid of the im entirely, like the how the macvim logo has
                    been done.

                    Lastly, the shading on the V just seems a little bit off. It's hard for
                    me to tell what it's trying to do, is it supposed to be a 3D chiseled
                    effect? It looks like it except some off the relief on the vertical
                    doesn't look realistic. I think I like the "raised plate" look from the
                    macvim icon a little better for that.

                    Well, that's probably more feedback than you wanted, it does look good
                    though :)
                  • Tony Mechelynck
                    On 06/05/11 09:50, Andy Spencer wrote: [...] ... [...] hm, IMHO with icons of that size the new icon looks better than the old one, because of the pixelization
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 6, 2011
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                      On 06/05/11 09:50, Andy Spencer wrote:
                      [...]
                      > [1] http://andy753421.ath.cx/linked/vim-new.png
                      [...]
                      hm, IMHO with icons of that size the new icon looks better than the old
                      one, because of the pixelization of the "im" in the latter. Maybe we
                      should be given the opportunity to see the proposed new icon in various
                      sizes, starting with all existing sizes of the present icon (the runtime
                      folder in the source tree includes gif, png and xpm icons at sizes
                      16x16, 32x32 and 48x48 pixels, plus a "Vim the editor" logo sized 60px
                      high and 125px wide in various formats; then there still is a rather
                      good "Vim" logo on the wiki even if nowadays not every wiki visitor may
                      be conscious of its existence [size 135x155px, maybe including some
                      margin space]: http://images.wikia.com/vim/images/b/bc/Wiki.png -- I've
                      looked at the latter at different zoom factors, and it looks very good
                      from 50% to 150% with no noticeable pixelization; at larger sizes [200%,
                      300%] pixelization starts being visible but IMHO not disturbingly so).


                      Best regards,
                      Tony.
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                      what is going on.

                      This person must be fired.

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                    • Vince Negri
                      Hi All, The original icon was created years ago by I think Thomas Hopfner, based on my original Vim Hot Icon . You can see them here:
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 6, 2011
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                        Hi All,

                        The original icon was created years ago by I think Thomas Hopfner, based
                        on my original "Vim Hot Icon". You can see them here:

                        http://www.vmunix.com/vim/pics.html

                        FWIW I like the update, but agree with others who think the diamond
                        corners ought to be less rounded. It looks like a "freshening" of the
                        concept rather than a revolution, which is a good thing :)

                        Vince



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                      • Tony Mechelynck
                        ... Hm, for some reason my browser displays broken image placeholders for the first six icons after the Vim - Icons and Logos title on that page. Reloading
                        Message 11 of 17 , May 7, 2011
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                          On 06/05/11 17:55, Vince Negri wrote:
                          > Hi All,
                          >
                          > The original icon was created years ago by I think Thomas Hopfner, based
                          > on my original "Vim Hot Icon". You can see them here:
                          >
                          > http://www.vmunix.com/vim/pics.html

                          Hm, for some reason my browser displays "broken image" placeholders for
                          the first six icons after the "Vim - Icons and Logos" title on that
                          page. Reloading the page (with or without cache) makes no difference.

                          >
                          > FWIW I like the update, but agree with others who think the diamond
                          > corners ought to be less rounded. It looks like a "freshening" of the
                          > concept rather than a revolution, which is a good thing :)
                          >
                          > Vince

                          Best regards,
                          Tony.
                          --
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                          -- Anatole France

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                        • solsTiCe d'Hiver
                          I am sad to see that that thread as died and that there is no change to be seen in the future. There is the conservative camp of course that hold it back. The
                          Message 12 of 17 , Oct 20, 2011
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                            I am sad to see that that thread as died and that there is no change to be seen in the future.

                            There is the conservative camp of course that hold it back.

                            The logo is almost the only graphical element of vim, so why not give it a freshening ?

                            I like the logo submitted by Tim Cuthbertson

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