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Re: Request: colors in :digraphs

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  • David J. Hamilton
    Exceprts from Adrien Axioplase Piérard s message ... You might find rfc1345[1] a more useful reference than :digraph for the digraphs you haven t memorized
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 7, 2011
      Exceprts from Adrien "Axioplase" Piérard's message
      > I happen to use :digraphs quite a lot to insert mathematical symbols
      > in documents.
      > However, finding the characters and their input sequence is *very*
      > straining for the eyes.

      You might find rfc1345[1] a more useful reference than :digraph for the digraphs
      you haven't memorized yet. Apart from anything else, if you have it open in a
      buffer you can at least grep if you can make a good guess for the name of the
      digraph you're looking for (e.g. UNION).

      Excerpts from Nikolai Weibull's message of Fri Jan 07 00:05:10 -0800 2011:
      > 2011/1/7 Adrien "Axioplase" Piérard <axioplase+vimdev@...>:
      >
      > > Also, it may help *a lot* too to colour blocks of consecutive related
      > > digraphs in similar colours, such as "all maths symbols", "all
      > > Japanese symbols", "all Greek letters" and so on.
      >
      > Wouldn’t it be better to use proper headers for each group?
      >
      > Color is seldom the answer.

      I have to strongly disagree. It may also help to have proper headers, but
      I find colour to be an excellent way to distinguish groups in text, and
      generally prefer it precisely because it doesn't require clutter (i.e. extra
      characters). I think for the output of :digraph in particular, it would be far
      more readable for symbols to be grouped, and for groups to be distinguished by
      colour.

      [1] http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1345.html
      --
      med vänlig hälsning
      David J. Hamilton

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    • Nikolai Weibull
      ... Right back at you. Either way, the proper solution is the one I mentioned, by header, where :digraph takes an optional list of groups to display. Too bad
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 7, 2011
        On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 20:25, David J. Hamilton <groups@...> wrote:

        > Excerpts from Nikolai Weibull's message of Fri Jan 07 00:05:10 -0800 2011:

        >> Color is seldom the answer.

        > I have to strongly disagree.

        Right back at you.

        Either way, the proper solution is the one I mentioned, by header,
        where :digraph takes an optional list of groups to display. Too bad
        :digraphs is also used to add digraphs.

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      • David J. Hamilton
        ... Fair enough (^^). ... In any case, distinguishing groups with headers and distinguishing by colour are not mutually exclusive. My point was not so much
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 7, 2011
          Excerpts from Nikolai Weibull's message of Fri Jan 07 16:16:10 -0800 2011:
          > >> Color is seldom the answer.
          >
          > > I have to strongly disagree.
          >
          > Right back at you.

          Fair enough (^^).

          > Either way, the proper solution is the one I mentioned, by header,
          > where :digraph takes an optional list of groups to display. Too bad
          > :digraphs is also used to add digraphs.

          In any case, distinguishing groups with headers and distinguishing by colour
          are not mutually exclusive. My point was not so much that using colour is
          better than using headers, but rather in response to:

          Excerpts from Nikolai Weibull's message
          > Wouldn’t it be better to use proper headers for each group?

          That for some people, no, it would not be better to use headers in lieu of
          distinguishing by colour, but rather the other way around.
          --
          med vänlig hälsning
          David J. Hamilton

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        • Dominique Pellé
          ... When looking at the output of :digraph, the more prompt pager allows pressing keys to move up or down: -- More -- SPACE/d/j: screen/page/line down,
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 8, 2011
            Adrien "Axioplase" Piérard wrote:

            > Hello,
            >
            > I happen to use :digraphs quite a lot to insert mathematical symbols
            > in documents.
            > However, finding the characters and their input sequence is *very*
            > straining for the eyes.
            >
            > I wonder whether each of the three columns output by :dig could be
            > coloured to help reading?
            > Also, it may help *a lot* too to colour blocks of consecutive related
            > digraphs in similar colours, such as "all maths symbols", "all
            > Japanese symbols", "all Greek letters" and so on.

            When looking at the output of :digraph, the "more prompt pager"
            allows pressing keys to move up or down:

            -- More -- SPACE/d/j: screen/page/line down, b/u/k: up, q: quit

            How about being able to press / or ? to search forward or
            backward in the output of :digraph? (or in the output of any
            other command that uses the "more prompt pager").

            -- Dominique

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          • Lech Lorens
            ... The idea (performing a search) was discussed about 2 years ago (the following message started the thread:
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 9, 2011
              On 08-Jan-2011 Dominique Pellé <dominique.pelle@...> wrote:
              > Adrien "Axioplase" Piérard wrote:
              >
              > > Hello,
              > >
              > > I happen to use :digraphs quite a lot to insert mathematical symbols
              > > in documents.
              > > However, finding the characters and their input sequence is *very*
              > > straining for the eyes.
              > >
              > > I wonder whether each of the three columns output by :dig could be
              > > coloured to help reading?
              > > Also, it may help *a lot* too to colour blocks of consecutive related
              > > digraphs in similar colours, such as "all maths symbols", "all
              > > Japanese symbols", "all Greek letters" and so on.
              >
              > When looking at the output of :digraph, the "more prompt pager"
              > allows pressing keys to move up or down:
              >
              > -- More -- SPACE/d/j: screen/page/line down, b/u/k: up, q: quit
              >
              > How about being able to press / or ? to search forward or
              > backward in the output of :digraph? (or in the output of any
              > other command that uses the "more prompt pager").
              >
              > -- Dominique

              The idea (performing a search) was discussed about 2 years ago (the
              following message started the thread:
              a4875c0e0902210755v107bcb56o20f9861208708f85@... ).
              In this specific case I don't believe such a solution would be very
              useful: you refer to the output of :dig to find out how to type
              a symbol. How can you search for a symbol if you don't know how to input
              it?

              --
              Cheers,
              Lech

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            • Dominique Pellé
              ... Hi Lech I did not find the discussion from 2 years ago. What s the date? ... Many digraphs are chosen in a logical way. Sometimes it s enough to correctly
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 9, 2011
                Lech Lorens wrote:

                > On 08-Jan-2011 Dominique Pellé <dominique.pelle@...> wrote:
                >> Adrien "Axioplase" Piérard wrote:
                >>
                >> > Hello,
                >> >
                >> > I happen to use :digraphs quite a lot to insert mathematical symbols
                >> > in documents.
                >> > However, finding the characters and their input sequence is *very*
                >> > straining for the eyes.
                >> >
                >> > I wonder whether each of the three columns output by :dig could be
                >> > coloured to help reading?
                >> > Also, it may help *a lot* too to colour blocks of consecutive related
                >> > digraphs in similar colours, such as "all maths symbols", "all
                >> > Japanese symbols", "all Greek letters" and so on.
                >>
                >> When looking at the output of  :digraph, the "more prompt pager"
                >> allows pressing keys to move up or down:
                >>
                >> -- More -- SPACE/d/j: screen/page/line down, b/u/k: up, q: quit
                >>
                >> How about being able to press  /  or  ?  to search forward or
                >> backward in the output of  :digraph? (or in the output of any
                >> other command that uses the "more prompt pager").
                >>
                >> -- Dominique
                >
                > The idea (performing a search) was discussed about 2 years ago (the
                > following message started the thread:
                > a4875c0e0902210755v107bcb56o20f9861208708f85@... ).

                Hi Lech

                I did not find the discussion from 2 years ago.
                What's the date?

                > In this specific case I don't believe such a solution would be very
                > useful: you refer to the output of :dig to find out how to type
                > a symbol. How can you search for a symbol if you don't know how to input
                > it?

                Many digraphs are chosen in a logical way. Sometimes
                it's enough to correctly guess what the digraph is, but not
                always. When you can't completely guess, you can
                sometimes make a correct partial guess and being able
                to search then helps.

                2 examples:

                - I want to type the the angstrom symbol. I guess that the
                digraph contains the letter 'a'. Searching with /a narrows
                down the search. The digraph for the lowercase angstrom
                symbol is 'aa' so my partial guess was right. But I would
                not have guessed the full digraph. Finding it in the output
                of :digraph without being able to search was not simple.
                I ended up doing a :redir of :digraph to be able to... search.

                - I want to type a Greek pi letter (3.14...). Same story:
                I guess that the digraph contains p and I search for /p.
                I end up finding it: p*. My partial guess was correct and
                helped.

                Another use case is to search by copy/pasting the Unicode
                symbol from somewhere. If I search for angstrom on
                Wikipedia, I find its Unicode symbol. But of course
                I don't want to do that all the time to enter that symbol.
                If I can search for the Unicode symbol in the output
                of :digraph, I can then use the more convenient
                digraph aa next time I need to type the character.

                Cheers
                -- Dominique

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              • Lech Lorens
                ... Feb 21, 2009. Have you tried the message ID on the Google groups? Seems to work fine for me. Anyway, here s the whole thread:
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 9, 2011
                  On 09-Jan-2011 Dominique Pellé <dominique.pelle@...> wrote:
                  > Lech Lorens wrote:
                  >
                  > > On 08-Jan-2011 Dominique Pellé <dominique.pelle@...> wrote:
                  > >> Adrien "Axioplase" Piérard wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> > Hello,
                  > >> >
                  > >> > I happen to use :digraphs quite a lot to insert mathematical symbols
                  > >> > in documents.
                  > >> > However, finding the characters and their input sequence is *very*
                  > >> > straining for the eyes.
                  > >> >
                  > >> > I wonder whether each of the three columns output by :dig could be
                  > >> > coloured to help reading?
                  > >> > Also, it may help *a lot* too to colour blocks of consecutive related
                  > >> > digraphs in similar colours, such as "all maths symbols", "all
                  > >> > Japanese symbols", "all Greek letters" and so on.
                  > >>
                  > >> When looking at the output of  :digraph, the "more prompt pager"
                  > >> allows pressing keys to move up or down:
                  > >>
                  > >> -- More -- SPACE/d/j: screen/page/line down, b/u/k: up, q: quit
                  > >>
                  > >> How about being able to press  /  or  ?  to search forward or
                  > >> backward in the output of  :digraph? (or in the output of any
                  > >> other command that uses the "more prompt pager").
                  > >>
                  > >> -- Dominique
                  > >
                  > > The idea (performing a search) was discussed about 2 years ago (the
                  > > following message started the thread:
                  > > a4875c0e0902210755v107bcb56o20f9861208708f85@... ).
                  >
                  > Hi Lech
                  >
                  > I did not find the discussion from 2 years ago.
                  > What's the date?

                  Feb 21, 2009.
                  Have you tried the message ID on the Google groups? Seems to work fine
                  for me. Anyway, here's the whole thread:
                  http://groups.google.com/group/vim_dev/browse_thread/thread/b5c08b079e0c06e6/3a6c31d30413a1b6?q=#3a6c31d30413a1b6

                  > > In this specific case I don't believe such a solution would be very
                  > > useful: you refer to the output of :dig to find out how to type
                  > > a symbol. How can you search for a symbol if you don't know how to input
                  > > it?
                  >
                  > Many digraphs are chosen in a logical way. Sometimes
                  > it's enough to correctly guess what the digraph is, but not
                  > always. When you can't completely guess, you can
                  > sometimes make a correct partial guess and being able
                  > to search then helps.
                  >
                  > 2 examples:

                  Agreed!

                  --
                  Cheers,
                  Lech

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                • Christian Brabandt
                  Hi Dominique! ... I agree, searching would help. In your case, my plugin unicode.vim ... type a and press . In the omni completion list select the
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 9, 2011
                    Hi Dominique!

                    On So, 09 Jan 2011, Dominique Pellé wrote:

                    > Many digraphs are chosen in a logical way. Sometimes
                    > it's enough to correctly guess what the digraph is, but not
                    > always. When you can't completely guess, you can
                    > sometimes make a correct partial guess and being able
                    > to search then helps.

                    I agree, searching would help. In your case, my plugin unicode.vim
                    http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2822 could also help:

                    >
                    > 2 examples:
                    >
                    > - I want to type the the angstrom symbol. I guess that the
                    > digraph contains the letter 'a'. Searching with /a narrows
                    > down the search. The digraph for the lowercase angstrom
                    > symbol is 'aa' so my partial guess was right. But I would
                    > not have guessed the full digraph. Finding it in the output
                    > of :digraph without being able to search was not simple.
                    > I ended up doing a :redir of :digraph to be able to... search.

                    type a and press <C-X><C-G>. In the omni completion list select the
                    glyph. Alternatively, set
                    :let g:showDigraphCode=1
                    and either enter the unicode codepoint or type the name and press
                    <C-X><C-U>

                    In the preview window, you'll see the glyph and additionally the digraph
                    char, that can be used to enter that glyph if one exists.

                    >
                    > - I want to type a Greek pi letter (3.14...). Same story:
                    > I guess that the digraph contains p and I search for /p.
                    > I end up finding it: p*. My partial guess was correct and
                    > helped.

                    Again, p<C-X><C-G> would have shown you all digraphs, that can be
                    entered with p

                    > Another use case is to search by copy/pasting the Unicode
                    > symbol from somewhere. If I search for angstrom on
                    > Wikipedia, I find its Unicode symbol. But of course
                    > I don't want to do that all the time to enter that symbol.
                    > If I can search for the Unicode symbol in the output
                    > of :digraph, I can then use the more convenient
                    > digraph aa next time I need to type the character.

                    Use the unicode completion of the plugin, together with the codepoint or
                    the name.

                    regards,
                    Christian

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                  • Bram Moolenaar
                    ... Searching can be useful. Can someone make a patch to continue the table at :help digraph-table for characters beyond 0xff? -- Momento mori, ergo carpe
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 10, 2011
                      Christian Brabandt wrote:

                      > Hi Dominique!
                      >
                      > On So, 09 Jan 2011, Dominique Pellé wrote:
                      >
                      > > Many digraphs are chosen in a logical way. Sometimes
                      > > it's enough to correctly guess what the digraph is, but not
                      > > always. When you can't completely guess, you can
                      > > sometimes make a correct partial guess and being able
                      > > to search then helps.
                      >
                      > I agree, searching would help. In your case, my plugin unicode.vim
                      > http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2822 could also help:
                      >
                      > >
                      > > 2 examples:
                      > >
                      > > - I want to type the the angstrom symbol. I guess that the
                      > > digraph contains the letter 'a'. Searching with /a narrows
                      > > down the search. The digraph for the lowercase angstrom
                      > > symbol is 'aa' so my partial guess was right. But I would
                      > > not have guessed the full digraph. Finding it in the output
                      > > of :digraph without being able to search was not simple.
                      > > I ended up doing a :redir of :digraph to be able to... search.
                      >
                      > type a and press <C-X><C-G>. In the omni completion list select the
                      > glyph. Alternatively, set
                      > :let g:showDigraphCode=1
                      > and either enter the unicode codepoint or type the name and press
                      > <C-X><C-U>
                      >
                      > In the preview window, you'll see the glyph and additionally the digraph
                      > char, that can be used to enter that glyph if one exists.
                      >
                      > >
                      > > - I want to type a Greek pi letter (3.14...). Same story:
                      > > I guess that the digraph contains p and I search for /p.
                      > > I end up finding it: p*. My partial guess was correct and
                      > > helped.
                      >
                      > Again, p<C-X><C-G> would have shown you all digraphs, that can be
                      > entered with p
                      >
                      > > Another use case is to search by copy/pasting the Unicode
                      > > symbol from somewhere. If I search for angstrom on
                      > > Wikipedia, I find its Unicode symbol. But of course
                      > > I don't want to do that all the time to enter that symbol.
                      > > If I can search for the Unicode symbol in the output
                      > > of :digraph, I can then use the more convenient
                      > > digraph aa next time I need to type the character.
                      >
                      > Use the unicode completion of the plugin, together with the codepoint or
                      > the name.

                      Searching can be useful. Can someone make a patch to continue the table
                      at ":help digraph-table" for characters beyond 0xff?

                      --
                      Momento mori, ergo carpe diem

                      /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
                      /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
                      \\\ an exciting new programming language -- http://www.Zimbu.org ///
                      \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org ///

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                    • Christian Brabandt
                      Hi Bram! ... Attached. Note, I replaced the actual glyphs for some hebrew and arabic glyphs by ? . Otherwise those lines would have been turned rl and this
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 10, 2011
                        Hi Bram!

                        On Mo, 10 Jan 2011, Bram Moolenaar wrote:

                        > Searching can be useful. Can someone make a patch to continue the table
                        > at ":help digraph-table" for characters beyond 0xff?

                        Attached. Note, I replaced the actual glyphs for some hebrew and arabic
                        glyphs by '?'. Otherwise those lines would have been turned 'rl' and
                        this is really confusing when navigating (and looks ugly).

                        Mit freundlichen Grüßen
                        Christian

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                      • Christian Brabandt
                        ... This one is wrong. This happened, because I forgot, that I defined this digraph here locally and have overwritten the original digraph which is: ⋯ .3
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 12, 2011
                          On Mo, 10 Jan 2011, Christian Brabandt wrote:
                          > +… .3 2026 8230 HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS

                          This one is wrong. This happened, because I forgot, that I defined this
                          digraph here locally and have overwritten the original digraph which is:

                          ⋯ .3 22EF 8943 MIDLINE HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS

                          Sorry,
                          Christian

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                        • Bram Moolenaar
                          ... Thanks. I don t see a problem with those hebrew and arabic glyphs. I had some problem with the patch (file was in latin1 originally), so I just copied the
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jan 15, 2011
                            Christian Brabandt wrote:

                            > On Mo, 10 Jan 2011, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                            >
                            > > Searching can be useful. Can someone make a patch to continue the table
                            > > at ":help digraph-table" for characters beyond 0xff?
                            >
                            > Attached. Note, I replaced the actual glyphs for some hebrew and arabic
                            > glyphs by '?'. Otherwise those lines would have been turned 'rl' and
                            > this is really confusing when navigating (and looks ugly).

                            Thanks. I don't see a problem with those hebrew and arabic glyphs.

                            I had some problem with the patch (file was in latin1 originally), so I
                            just copied the new lines. Also included the fix you sent later.

                            I'll send it out with the next runtime files update and await further
                            updates.

                            --
                            hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
                            101. U can read htis w/o ny porblm and cant figur eout Y its evn listd.

                            /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
                            /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
                            \\\ an exciting new programming language -- http://www.Zimbu.org ///
                            \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org ///

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