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Re: Spelling support doesn’t deal with ‘’’ c orrectly

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  • Nikolai Weibull
    ... I don’t use cp1252, nor do I use the (almost) equally horrible latin1 (ISO-8859-1). I use Unicode, specifically U+2018, U+2019, U+201C, and U+201D.
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 1, 2010
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      On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 21:11, Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> wrote:
      >
      > Nikolai Weibull wrote:
      >
      >> Writing “Let’s begin …” marks the ‘s’ as a spelling
      >> error.  Writing “Let's begin …” works fine.  Is this a bug,
      >> or am I missing something?

      > You are using weird quotes from cp1252.  The spell checker works with
      > latin1 quotes.  The equivalent of cp1252 0x92 is 0x2019 in Unicode.
      > They are not the same, thus Vim says it's an error to use that.
      > Please don't use cp1252, it's Windows-only stuff.

      I don’t use cp1252, nor do I use the (almost) equally horrible latin1
      (ISO-8859-1). I use Unicode, specifically U+2018, U+2019, U+201C, and
      U+201D.

      spelllang=en encoding=utf-8

      :spelldump gives me

      /regions=usaucagbnz
      # file: /usr/share/vim/vim73/spell/en.utf-8.spl

      so everything seems to be in order, except for the fact that ‘’’ isn’t
      being recognized. :spelldump also lists

      don't

      but not

      don’t

      nor any other word with a ‘’’.

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    • Mike Williams
      ... If the spell lists are in 7-bit ASCII then applying a Unicode to ASCII conversion should map U+2019 to U+0027 and make spell DWIM. TTFN Mike -- .egassem
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 1, 2010
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        On 01/12/2010 09:58, Nikolai Weibull wrote:
        > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 21:11, Bram Moolenaar<Bram@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> Nikolai Weibull wrote:
        >>
        >>> Writing “Let’s begin …” marks the ‘s’ as a spelling
        >>> error. Writing “Let's begin …” works fine. Is this a bug,
        >>> or am I missing something?
        >
        >> You are using weird quotes from cp1252. The spell checker works with
        >> latin1 quotes. The equivalent of cp1252 0x92 is 0x2019 in Unicode.
        >> They are not the same, thus Vim says it's an error to use that.
        >> Please don't use cp1252, it's Windows-only stuff.
        >
        > I don’t use cp1252, nor do I use the (almost) equally horrible latin1
        > (ISO-8859-1). I use Unicode, specifically U+2018, U+2019, U+201C, and
        > U+201D.
        >
        > spelllang=en encoding=utf-8
        >
        > :spelldump gives me
        >
        > /regions=usaucagbnz
        > # file: /usr/share/vim/vim73/spell/en.utf-8.spl
        >
        > so everything seems to be in order, except for the fact that ‘’’ isn’t
        > being recognized. :spelldump also lists
        >
        > don't
        >
        > but not
        >
        > don’t
        >
        > nor any other word with a ‘’’.

        If the spell lists are in 7-bit ASCII then applying a Unicode to ASCII
        conversion should map U+2019 to U+0027 and make spell DWIM.

        TTFN

        Mike
        --
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      • Nikolai Weibull
        On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:05, Mike Williams ... What do you mean by ”applying a Unicode to ASCII conversion”? -- You received this message from the
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 1, 2010
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          On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:05, Mike Williams
          <mike.williams@...> wrote:

          > If the spell lists are in 7-bit ASCII then applying a Unicode to ASCII
          > conversion should map U+2019 to U+0027 and make spell DWIM.

          What do you mean by ”applying a Unicode to ASCII conversion”?

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        • Mike Williams
          ... Passing the Unicode encoded text through something like iconv to produce an ASCII version of it. There are standard mapping tables for the punctuation
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 1, 2010
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            On 01/12/2010 11:18, Nikolai Weibull wrote:
            > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:05, Mike Williams
            > <mike.williams@...> wrote:
            >
            >> If the spell lists are in 7-bit ASCII then applying a Unicode to ASCII
            >> conversion should map U+2019 to U+0027 and make spell DWIM.
            >
            > What do you mean by ”applying a Unicode to ASCII conversion”?

            Passing the Unicode encoded text through something like iconv to produce
            an ASCII version of it. There are standard mapping tables for the
            punctuation symbols that would handle most of the general punctuation
            block U+2000-206F. For example left and right double quotes would both
            be mapped to the quotation character.

            It will depend on how any Unicode characters that have no mapping are
            treated. In a conversion you normally are allowed to specify a
            replacement character for them. Ideally you would pick a character that
            would not be picked up by the spell code.

            HTH

            Mike
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          • Nikolai Weibull
            On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 13:28, Mike Williams ... Why would I want to do that? I want my Unicode-encoded text. I figured that you were suggesting some sort of
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 1, 2010
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              On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 13:28, Mike Williams
              <mike.williams@...> wrote:
              > On 01/12/2010 11:18, Nikolai Weibull wrote:
              >>
              >> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:05, Mike Williams
              >> <mike.williams@...>  wrote:
              >>
              >>> If the spell lists are in 7-bit ASCII then applying a Unicode to ASCII
              >>> conversion should map U+2019 to U+0027 and make spell DWIM.
              >>
              >> What do you mean by ”applying a Unicode to ASCII conversion”?

              > Passing the Unicode encoded text through something like iconv to produce an
              > ASCII version of it.  There are standard mapping tables for the punctuation
              > symbols that would handle most of the general punctuation block U+2000-206F.
              >  For example left and right double quotes would both be mapped to the
              > quotation character.

              Why would I want to do that? I want my Unicode-encoded text.

              I figured that you were suggesting some sort of modification of the
              spelling tables.

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            • Mike Williams
              ... If the spelling tables are ASCII then I am just pointing out there is a means of having Unicode encoded text spell checked against them. The spell
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 1, 2010
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                On 01/12/2010 12:37, Nikolai Weibull wrote:
                > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 13:28, Mike Williams
                > <mike.williams@...> wrote:
                >> On 01/12/2010 11:18, Nikolai Weibull wrote:
                >>>
                >>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:05, Mike Williams
                >>> <mike.williams@...> wrote:
                >>>
                >>>> If the spell lists are in 7-bit ASCII then applying a Unicode to ASCII
                >>>> conversion should map U+2019 to U+0027 and make spell DWIM.
                >>>
                >>> What do you mean by ”applying a Unicode to ASCII conversion”?
                >
                >> Passing the Unicode encoded text through something like iconv to produce an
                >> ASCII version of it. There are standard mapping tables for the punctuation
                >> symbols that would handle most of the general punctuation block U+2000-206F.
                >> For example left and right double quotes would both be mapped to the
                >> quotation character.
                >
                > Why would I want to do that? I want my Unicode-encoded text.
                >
                > I figured that you were suggesting some sort of modification of the
                > spelling tables.

                If the spelling tables are ASCII then I am just pointing out there is a
                means of having Unicode encoded text spell checked against them. The
                spell checking code could converts the buffer contents to temporary
                storage before running. I imagine there will be some fun in mapping
                back from the temporary storage to the original buffer contents to
                highlight spelling issues.

                I imagine this would also work for anyone else working in Unicode where
                the spelling checklists are not in Unicode.

                There is a solution to the problem. The question is is it worth
                implementing? Someone who knows the spell checking code would be able
                to say.

                Mike
                --
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              • Bram Moolenaar
                ... Your message header had: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 This one has: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 ... Right, only latin1 quotes
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 1, 2010
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                  Nikolai Weibull wrote:

                  > >> Writing “Let’s begin …” marks the ‘s’ as a spelling
                  > >> error.  Writing “Let's begin …” works fine.  Is this a bug,
                  > >> or am I missing something?
                  >
                  > > You are using weird quotes from cp1252.  The spell checker works with
                  > > latin1 quotes.  The equivalent of cp1252 0x92 is 0x2019 in Unicode.
                  > > They are not the same, thus Vim says it's an error to use that.
                  > > Please don't use cp1252, it's Windows-only stuff.
                  >
                  > I don’t use cp1252, nor do I use the (almost) equally horrible latin1
                  > (ISO-8859-1). I use Unicode, specifically U+2018, U+2019, U+201C, and
                  > U+201D.

                  Your message header had:
                  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

                  This one has:
                  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

                  > spelllang=en encoding=utf-8
                  >
                  > :spelldump gives me
                  >
                  > /regions=usaucagbnz
                  > # file: /usr/share/vim/vim73/spell/en.utf-8.spl
                  >
                  > so everything seems to be in order, except for the fact that ‘’’ isn’t
                  > being recognized. :spelldump also lists
                  >
                  > don't
                  >
                  > but not
                  >
                  > don’t
                  >
                  > nor any other word with a ‘’’.

                  Right, only latin1 quotes are supported. Note that the first 256
                  characters of Unicode are latin1.

                  --
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                  around to conceal what they've done.
                  (Scott Adams - The Dilbert principle)

                  /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
                  /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
                  \\\ an exciting new programming language -- http://www.Zimbu.org ///
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                • Nikolai Weibull
                  ... Not according to GMail (this is what it sent): MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: nikolai.weibull@gmail.com Received: by 10.220.190.204 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Nov 2010
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 1, 2010
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                    On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 21:12, Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Nikolai Weibull wrote:
                    >
                    >> >> Writing “Let’s begin …” marks the ‘s’ as a spelling
                    >> >> error.  Writing “Let's begin …” works fine.  Is this a bug,
                    >> >> or am I missing something?
                    >>
                    >> > You are using weird quotes from cp1252.  The spell checker works with
                    >> > latin1 quotes.  The equivalent of cp1252 0x92 is 0x2019 in Unicode.
                    >> > They are not the same, thus Vim says it's an error to use that.
                    >> > Please don't use cp1252, it's Windows-only stuff.
                    >>
                    >> I don’t use cp1252, nor do I use the (almost) equally horrible latin1
                    >> (ISO-8859-1).  I use Unicode, specifically U+2018, U+2019, U+201C, and
                    >> U+201D.
                    >
                    > Your message header had:
                    >        Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

                    Not according to GMail (this is what it sent):

                    MIME-Version: 1.0
                    Sender: nikolai.weibull@...
                    Received: by 10.220.190.204 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 03:40:55 -0800 (PST)
                    Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 12:40:55 +0100
                    Delivered-To: nikolai.weibull@...
                    X-Google-Sender-Auth: Okja3V51CPh3aY-A-4p7RBH6WCQ
                    Message-ID: <AANLkTi=9T5WdogfP5QiGDvQOfzdzdeeDoHr6cPG+emn4@...>
                    Subject: =?UTF-8?B?U3BlbGxpbmcgc3VwcG9ydCBkb2VzbuKAmXQgZGVhbCB3aXRoIOKAmOKAmeKAmSBjb3JyZQ==?=
                    =?UTF-8?B?Y3RseQ==?=
                    From: Nikolai Weibull <now@...>
                    To: Vim Developers <vim_dev@...>
                    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
                    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

                    Perhaps Google Groups messed with the message along the way.

                    > Right, only latin1 quotes are supported.

                    OK, so let’s fix that. How do we fix that?

                    Also, I don’t understand what you say latin1 quotes, as it would be a
                    lot clearer if you said ASCII quotes. (Latin1 doesn’t add any
                    additional quotes. That’s one of the main differences between latin1
                    and cp1252.)

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                  • Nikolai Weibull
                    ... Still waiting for a response to this question. -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text
                    Message 9 of 25 , Mar 8 3:13 AM
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                      On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 22:00, Nikolai Weibull <now@...> wrote:
                      > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 21:12, Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> Nikolai Weibull wrote:
                      >>
                      >>> Writing “Let’s begin …” marks the ‘s’ as a spelling
                      >>> error.  Writing “Let's begin …” works fine.  Is this a bug,
                      >>> or am I missing something?

                      >> Right, only latin1 quotes are supported.

                      > OK, so let’s fix that.  How do we fix that?
                      >
                      > Also, I don’t understand what you say latin1 quotes, as it would be a
                      > lot clearer if you said ASCII quotes.  (Latin1 doesn’t add any
                      > additional quotes.  That’s one of the main differences between latin1
                      > and cp1252.)

                      Still waiting for a response to this question.

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                    • Bram Moolenaar
                      ... I don t know how to fix this (well, don t have time to look into it). I don t even know what the fix would do anyway. We don t want to allow just any
                      Message 10 of 25 , Mar 8 7:15 AM
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                        Nikolai Weibull wrote:

                        > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 22:00, Nikolai Weibull <now@...> wrote:
                        > > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 21:12, Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >> Nikolai Weibull wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >>> Writing “Let’s begin …†marks the ‘s’ as a spelling
                        > >>> error.  Writing “Let's begin …†works fine.  Is this a bug,
                        > >>> or am I missing something?
                        >
                        > >> Right, only latin1 quotes are supported.
                        >
                        > > OK, so let’s fix that.  How do we fix that?
                        > >
                        > > Also, I don’t understand what you say latin1 quotes, as it would be a
                        > > lot clearer if you said ASCII quotes.  (Latin1 doesn’t add any
                        > > additional quotes.  That’s one of the main differences between latin1
                        > > and cp1252.)
                        >
                        > Still waiting for a response to this question.

                        I don't know how to fix this (well, don't have time to look into it). I
                        don't even know what the fix would do anyway. We don't want to allow
                        just any quotes, only the ones that are appropriate for the language.
                        Probably this needs to be done in the spell files themselves. Or with
                        an option in the affix file.

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                        /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
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                      • Dominique Pellé
                        ... The hunspell doc is not very clear but I think this is what the ICONV directive of Hunspell is for. Looking at this English dictionary of OpenOffice 3.x
                        Message 11 of 25 , Mar 8 12:01 PM
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                          Nikolai Weibull <now@...> wrote:

                          > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 22:00, Nikolai Weibull <now@...> wrote:
                          >> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 21:12, Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>> Nikolai Weibull wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>>> Writing “Let’s begin …” marks the ‘s’ as a spelling
                          >>>> error.  Writing “Let's begin …” works fine.  Is this a bug,
                          >>>> or am I missing something?
                          >
                          >>> Right, only latin1 quotes are supported.
                          >
                          >> OK, so let’s fix that.  How do we fix that?
                          >>
                          >> Also, I don’t understand what you say latin1 quotes, as it would be a
                          >> lot clearer if you said ASCII quotes.  (Latin1 doesn’t add any
                          >> additional quotes.  That’s one of the main differences between latin1
                          >> and cp1252.)
                          >
                          > Still waiting for a response to this question.


                          The hunspell doc is not very clear but I think this is what the
                          ICONV directive of Hunspell is for. Looking at this English
                          dictionary of OpenOffice 3.x at:

                          http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/project/dict-en-fixed

                          ... the en_US.aff file contains:

                          2839 ICONV 6
                          2840 ICONV ’ '
                          2841 ICONV ffi ffi
                          2842 ICONV ffl ffl
                          2843 ICONV ff ff
                          2844 ICONV fi fi
                          2845 ICONV fl fl
                          2846
                          2847 OCONV 1
                          2848 OCONV ' ’

                          My understanding is that ICONV causes to convert the input
                          fancy quote U+2019 into a regular quote (among other conversions)
                          before probing the dictionary. So "Let’s" and “Let's" are both
                          recognized as correct.

                          But Vim currently still uses dictionaries from OpenOffice-2.x and
                          does not support ICONV either.

                          I found the following patch which adds support of Hunspell
                          dictionary in Vim:

                          https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=219777

                          I tried the patch and it still works with latest vim-7.3.138
                          (I did not test it extensively yet). With some clean up, it
                          could be a good addition to Vim-7.4.

                          How about adding options such as:

                          " Comma separated directories where to search for
                          " Hunspell dictionaries (*.aff and *.dic).
                          set hunspelldir=~/hunspell,/usr/share/hunspell

                          " Boolean option to use Hunspell dictionaries directly
                          " rather than Vim spelling dictionaries.
                          set hunspell

                          Using Hunspell dictionaries directly solves several issues.
                          I never managed to convert the latest French dictionary from
                          OpenOffice-3.x from Hunspell to Vim. The dictionaries from
                          OpenOffice-2.x are quite out of date (at least for French).
                          I wish I could use the latest dictionary from OpenOffice-3.x

                          Regards
                          -- Dominique

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                        • James Vega
                          On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Dominique Pellé ... Personally, I d prefer to use something like Enchant[0] over a specific spelling library, if the effort is
                          Message 12 of 25 , Mar 8 12:11 PM
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                            On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Dominique Pellé
                            <dominique.pelle@...> wrote:
                            > Nikolai Weibull <now@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 22:00, Nikolai Weibull <now@...> wrote:
                            >>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 21:12, Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> wrote:
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Nikolai Weibull wrote:
                            >>>>
                            >>>>> Writing “Let’s begin …” marks the ‘s’ as a spelling
                            >>>>> error.  Writing “Let's begin …” works fine.  Is this a bug,
                            >>>>> or am I missing something?
                            >>
                            >>>> Right, only latin1 quotes are supported.
                            >>
                            >>> OK, so let’s fix that.  How do we fix that?
                            >>>
                            >>> Also, I don’t understand what you say latin1 quotes, as it would be a
                            >>> lot clearer if you said ASCII quotes.  (Latin1 doesn’t add any
                            >>> additional quotes.  That’s one of the main differences between latin1
                            >>> and cp1252.)
                            >>
                            >> Still waiting for a response to this question.
                            >
                            >
                            > The hunspell doc is not very clear but I think this is what the
                            > ICONV directive of Hunspell is for. Looking at this English
                            > dictionary of OpenOffice 3.x at:
                            >
                            > http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/project/dict-en-fixed
                            >
                            > ... the en_US.aff file contains:
                            >
                            > 2839 ICONV 6
                            > 2840 ICONV ’ '
                            > 2841 ICONV ffi ffi
                            > 2842 ICONV ffl ffl
                            > 2843 ICONV ff ff
                            > 2844 ICONV fi fi
                            > 2845 ICONV fl fl
                            > 2846
                            > 2847 OCONV 1
                            > 2848 OCONV ' ’
                            >
                            > My understanding is that ICONV causes to convert the input
                            > fancy quote U+2019 into a regular quote (among other conversions)
                            > before probing the dictionary.  So "Let’s" and “Let's" are both
                            > recognized as correct.
                            >
                            > But Vim currently still uses dictionaries from OpenOffice-2.x and
                            > does not support ICONV either.
                            >
                            > I found the following patch which adds support of Hunspell
                            > dictionary in Vim:
                            >
                            > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=219777

                            Personally, I'd prefer to use something like Enchant[0] over a specific
                            spelling library, if the effort is going to be taken to use something
                            other than Vim's internal spell-checking. I've done some work in a
                            local branch to integrate Enchant, but ran into some larger questions
                            that need to be addressed and haven't had time to draft a reasonable
                            email about them yet.

                            [0]: http://www.abisource.com/projects/enchant/
                            --
                            James
                            GPG Key: 1024D/61326D40 2003-09-02 James Vega <jamessan@...>

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                          • Dominique Pellé
                            ... I did not know about Enchant until now but the description looks convincing considering the number of backends it supports. I m mostly interested in
                            Message 13 of 25 , Mar 9 11:16 AM
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                              James Vega wrote:

                              > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:01 PM, Dominique Pellé
                              > <dominique.pelle@...> wrote:
                              >> Nikolai Weibull <now@...> wrote:
                              >>
                              >>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 22:00, Nikolai Weibull <now@...> wrote:
                              >>>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 21:12, Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> wrote:
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>> Nikolai Weibull wrote:
                              >>>>>
                              >>>>>> Writing “Let’s begin …” marks the ‘s’ as a spelling
                              >>>>>> error.  Writing “Let's begin …” works fine.  Is this a bug,
                              >>>>>> or am I missing something?
                              >>>
                              >>>>> Right, only latin1 quotes are supported.
                              >>>
                              >>>> OK, so let’s fix that.  How do we fix that?
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Also, I don’t understand what you say latin1 quotes, as it would be a
                              >>>> lot clearer if you said ASCII quotes.  (Latin1 doesn’t add any
                              >>>> additional quotes.  That’s one of the main differences between latin1
                              >>>> and cp1252.)
                              >>>
                              >>> Still waiting for a response to this question.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> The hunspell doc is not very clear but I think this is what the
                              >> ICONV directive of Hunspell is for. Looking at this English
                              >> dictionary of OpenOffice 3.x at:
                              >>
                              >> http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/project/dict-en-fixed
                              >>
                              >> ... the en_US.aff file contains:
                              >>
                              >> 2839 ICONV 6
                              >> 2840 ICONV ’ '
                              >> 2841 ICONV ffi ffi
                              >> 2842 ICONV ffl ffl
                              >> 2843 ICONV ff ff
                              >> 2844 ICONV fi fi
                              >> 2845 ICONV fl fl
                              >> 2846
                              >> 2847 OCONV 1
                              >> 2848 OCONV ' ’
                              >>
                              >> My understanding is that ICONV causes to convert the input
                              >> fancy quote U+2019 into a regular quote (among other conversions)
                              >> before probing the dictionary.  So "Let’s" and “Let's" are both
                              >> recognized as correct.
                              >>
                              >> But Vim currently still uses dictionaries from OpenOffice-2.x and
                              >> does not support ICONV either.
                              >>
                              >> I found the following patch which adds support of Hunspell
                              >> dictionary in Vim:
                              >>
                              >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=219777
                              >
                              > Personally, I'd prefer to use something like Enchant[0] over a specific
                              > spelling library, if the effort is going to be taken to use something
                              > other than Vim's internal spell-checking.  I've done some work in a
                              > local branch to integrate Enchant, but ran into some larger questions
                              > that need to be addressed and haven't had time to draft a reasonable
                              > email about them yet.
                              >
                              > [0]: http://www.abisource.com/projects/enchant/


                              I did not know about Enchant until now but the description looks
                              convincing considering the number of backends it supports. I'm
                              mostly interested in better support of Hunspell but Enchant would
                              provide that along with support of other spelling systems.
                              In short, it looks promising.

                              -- Dominique

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                            • Ben Fritz
                              ... Latin1 is a superset of ASCII. Since there are no additional quote characters in latin1, saying Latin1 quotes means exactly the same as ASCII quotes.
                              Message 14 of 25 , Mar 10 8:15 AM
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                                On Mar 8, 5:13 am, Nikolai Weibull <n...@...> wrote:
                                > > Also, I don’t understand what you say latin1 quotes, as it would be a
                                > > lot clearer if you said ASCII quotes.  (Latin1 doesn’t add any
                                > > additional quotes.  That’s one of the main differences between latin1
                                > > and cp1252.)
                                >
                                > Still waiting for a response to this question.

                                Latin1 is a superset of ASCII. Since there are no additional quote
                                characters in latin1, saying "Latin1 quotes" means exactly the same as
                                ASCII quotes.

                                Apparently cp1252 DOES add some quotes. Unicode certainly does. So the
                                distinction is ASCII/Latin1 quotes vs. cp1252/Unicode quotes.

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                              • Nikolai Weibull
                                ... Why are you echoing what I already said above? -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text
                                Message 15 of 25 , Mar 10 11:44 PM
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                                  On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 17:15, Ben Fritz <fritzophrenic@...> wrote:

                                  > On Mar 8, 5:13 am, Nikolai Weibull <n...@...> wrote:
                                  >> > Also, I don’t understand what you say latin1 quotes, as it would be a
                                  >> > lot clearer if you said ASCII quotes.  (Latin1 doesn’t add any
                                  >> > additional quotes.  That’s one of the main differences between latin1
                                  >> > and cp1252.)
                                  >>
                                  >> Still waiting for a response to this question.

                                  > Latin1 is a superset of ASCII. Since there are no additional quote
                                  > characters in latin1, saying "Latin1 quotes" means exactly the same as
                                  > ASCII quotes.
                                  >
                                  > Apparently cp1252 DOES add some quotes. Unicode certainly does. So the
                                  > distinction is ASCII/Latin1 quotes vs. cp1252/Unicode quotes.

                                  Why are you echoing what I already said above?

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                                • Ben Fritz
                                  ... I m not echoing you. I m trying to point out that I believe your conclusion is wrong even though your facts are right. You say Bram should have said ASCII
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Mar 11 7:56 AM
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                                    On Mar 11, 1:44 am, Nikolai Weibull <n...@...> wrote:
                                    > On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 17:15, Ben Fritz <fritzophre...@...> wrote:
                                    > > On Mar 8, 5:13 am, Nikolai Weibull <n...@...> wrote:
                                    > >> > Also, I don’t understand what you say latin1 quotes, as it would be a
                                    > >> > lot clearer if you said ASCII quotes.  (Latin1doesn’tadd any
                                    > >> > additional quotes.  That’s one of the main differences between latin1
                                    > >> > and cp1252.)
                                    >
                                    > >> Still waiting for a response to this question.
                                    > > Latin1 is a superset of ASCII. Since there are no additional quote
                                    > > characters in latin1, saying "Latin1 quotes" means exactly the same as
                                    > > ASCII quotes.
                                    >
                                    > > Apparently cp1252 DOES add some quotes. Unicode certainly does. So the
                                    > > distinction is ASCII/Latin1 quotes vs. cp1252/Unicode quotes.
                                    >
                                    > Why are you echoing what I already said above?

                                    I'm not echoing you. I'm trying to point out that I believe your
                                    conclusion is wrong even though your facts are right. You say Bram
                                    should have said "ASCII quotes" because they are the same as latin1
                                    quotes. But because they are the same, referring to them as ASCII will
                                    add zero clarity and in fact will decrease clarity, because if I
                                    understand correctly, the spell files are truly in Latin1 and not
                                    ASCII.

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                                  • Nikolai Weibull
                                    ... Saying “latin1 quotes” adds zero clarity. It actually muddles the facts, especially since cp1252 does add quotes and, again especially, since there
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Mar 11 8:46 AM
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                                      On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 16:56, Ben Fritz <fritzophrenic@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On Mar 11, 1:44 am, Nikolai Weibull <n...@...> wrote:
                                      >> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 17:15, Ben Fritz <fritzophre...@...> wrote:
                                      >> > On Mar 8, 5:13 am, Nikolai Weibull <n...@...> wrote:
                                      >> >> > Also, I don’t understand what you say latin1 quotes, as it would be a
                                      >> >> > lot clearer if you said ASCII quotes.  (Latin1doesn’tadd any
                                      >> >> > additional quotes.  That’s one of the main differences between latin1
                                      >> >> > and cp1252.)
                                      >>
                                      >> >> Still waiting for a response to this question.
                                      >> > Latin1 is a superset of ASCII. Since there are no additional quote
                                      >> > characters in latin1, saying "Latin1 quotes" means exactly the same as
                                      >> > ASCII quotes.
                                      >>
                                      >> > Apparently cp1252 DOES add some quotes. Unicode certainly does. So the
                                      >> > distinction is ASCII/Latin1 quotes vs. cp1252/Unicode quotes.
                                      >>
                                      >> Why are you echoing what I already said above?
                                      >
                                      > I'm not echoing you. I'm trying to point out that I believe your
                                      > conclusion is wrong even though your facts are right. You say Bram
                                      > should have said "ASCII quotes" because they are the same as latin1
                                      > quotes. But because they are the same, referring to them as ASCII will
                                      > add zero clarity and in fact will decrease clarity, because if I
                                      > understand correctly, the spell files are truly in Latin1 and not
                                      > ASCII.

                                      Saying “latin1 quotes” adds zero clarity. It actually muddles the
                                      facts, especially since cp1252 does add quotes and, again especially,
                                      since there was some confusion about what quotes (and encoding) I
                                      (well, Google) was using in my e-mails.

                                      But this is a big “whatever”. As latin1 (or, more appropriately,
                                      iso-8859-1) is a superset of ASCII and Unicode is a superset of
                                      latin1, then what I really care about is having support for Unicode
                                      quotes. Or, Unicode apostrophes, to be exact (not U+0027, but
                                      U+2019), as it’s not ‘’’’s role as a right single quotation mark, but
                                      as an apostrophe, that I care about.

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                                    • Dimitar DIMITROV
                                      Hi, On windows XP: 1. I did: gvim.exe -u NONE -U NONE -N then :ls which displays ... 1 %a [No Name] line 1 Press ENTER or type command
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Mar 15 6:01 AM
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                                        Hi,

                                        On windows XP:

                                        1. I did: gvim.exe -u NONE -U NONE -N

                                        then :ls which displays

                                        :ls
                                          1 %a   "[No Name]"                    line 1
                                        Press ENTER or type command to continue

                                        2. Then I did: :set lazyredraw, and this time :ls wouldn't display anything

                                        Tested with Vim 7.3, 1-138

                                        Dimitar Dimitrov


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                                      • Christian Brabandt
                                        ... This has been discussed before, e.g. here: http://groups.google.com/group/vim_dev/msg/fd9a82ef07460726 regards, Christian -- You received this message from
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Mar 15 6:10 AM
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                                          On Tue, March 15, 2011 2:01 pm, Dimitar DIMITROV wrote:
                                          > 1. I did: gvim.exe -u NONE -U NONE -N
                                          >
                                          > then :ls which displays
                                          >
                                          > :ls
                                          > 1 %a "[No Name]" line 1
                                          > Press ENTER or type command to continue
                                          >
                                          > 2. Then I did: :set lazyredraw, and this time :ls wouldn't display
                                          > anything
                                          >
                                          > Tested with Vim 7.3, 1-138

                                          This has been discussed before, e.g. here:
                                          http://groups.google.com/group/vim_dev/msg/fd9a82ef07460726

                                          regards,
                                          Christian

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                                        • Gary Johnson
                                          ... Latin1 is a superset of ASCII, but Unicode is not a superset of latin1. Unicode supports a larger set of characters than latin1 and shares some character
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Mar 15 7:49 AM
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                                            On 2011-03-11, Nikolai Weibull wrote:

                                            > But this is a big "whatever". As latin1 (or, more appropriately,
                                            > iso-8859-1) is a superset of ASCII and Unicode is a superset of
                                            > latin1, then what I really care about is having support for Unicode
                                            > quotes.

                                            Latin1 is a superset of ASCII, but Unicode is not a superset of
                                            latin1. Unicode supports a larger set of characters than latin1 and
                                            shares some character encodings in common with latin1 but it is a
                                            different encoding.

                                            Regards,
                                            Gary

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                                          • Tony Mechelynck
                                            ... Unicode is a superset of Latin1 in the sense that every Latin1 character is also a Unicode codepoint, and at the same ordinal position (the first 256
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Mar 15 11:37 PM
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                                              On 15/03/11 15:49, Gary Johnson wrote:
                                              > On 2011-03-11, Nikolai Weibull wrote:
                                              >
                                              >> But this is a big "whatever". As latin1 (or, more appropriately,
                                              >> iso-8859-1) is a superset of ASCII and Unicode is a superset of
                                              >> latin1, then what I really care about is having support for Unicode
                                              >> quotes.
                                              >
                                              > Latin1 is a superset of ASCII, but Unicode is not a superset of
                                              > latin1. Unicode supports a larger set of characters than latin1 and
                                              > shares some character encodings in common with latin1 but it is a
                                              > different encoding.
                                              >
                                              > Regards,
                                              > Gary
                                              >

                                              Unicode is a superset of Latin1 in the sense that every Latin1 character
                                              is also a Unicode codepoint, and at the same ordinal position (the first
                                              256 Unicode codepoints are the 256 Latin1 characters in the same order).

                                              However no Unicode encoding represents Latin1 characters higher than
                                              0x7F *on disk* by the same binary value that Latin1 does (UTF-8, but not
                                              the other Unicode encodings except maybe --I'm not sure-- GB18030,
                                              represents the 128 US-ASCII characters the same way as both US-ASCII and
                                              Latin1).

                                              <encyclopedia>
                                              The above paragraph implies that Unicode is not *one* encoding, even
                                              though Vim represents all Unicode codepoints the same way *in memory*.
                                              Rather, Unicode should be seen as a way of classifying all known writing
                                              systems as a one-dimensional list going from zero to "something high" by
                                              integer steps or "codepoints". These codepoints may be coded as bytes in
                                              different ways:
                                              * UTF-8, which uses one or more bytes per codepoint, and where the byte
                                              0x00 can only represent the codepoint U+0000 (the null codepoint) so
                                              it's useful for a representation using C strings. The first byte used
                                              for any codepoint tells how many bytes there will be in all, the other
                                              ones (if any) have values which cannot happen in the first byte, so
                                              synchronization is easy even if corrupt bytes become embedded in the text.
                                              * UCS-2, which uses one two-byte word (big-endian or little-endian) per
                                              codepoint and cannot represent any codepoint higher than U+FFFF
                                              * UTF-16, which extends UCS-2 up to U+10FFFF by means of "surrogate
                                              codepoints", using two words for codepoints higher than U+FFFF
                                              * UCS-4 aka UTF-32, which can be big-endian or little-endian (or even,
                                              I've been told, ordered 2143 or 3412) and uses one four-byte doubleword
                                              per codepoint. It simply stores each codepoint as its ordinal value
                                              expressed as one unsigned 32-bit integer.
                                              * GB18030, which is skewed in favour of Chinese; it allows
                                              representation of any Unicode codepoint but the conversion in either
                                              direction between it and other Unicode encodings requires bulky tables.

                                              Conversion between any of the above except GB18030 is trivial; Vim does
                                              it with no need for the iconv library. For UCS-2, UTF-16 and UTF-32,
                                              when the endianness is omitted, big-endian is implied, even on
                                              little-endian processors such as the Intel ones used in all Windows PCs,
                                              most Linux ones, and many of those equipped with Mac OSX.
                                              </encyclopedia>


                                              Best regards,
                                              Tony.
                                              --
                                              Champagne don't make me lazy.
                                              Cocaine don't drive me crazy.
                                              Ain't nobody's business but my own.
                                              -- Taj Mahal

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                                            • Cesar Romani
                                              ... I managed to build vim74 including the patch for using hunspell, but how am I supposed to use it with vim? Many thanks in advance, -- Cesar -- -- You
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jan 30, 2014
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                                                On 08/03/2011 03:01 p.m., Dominique Pellé wrote:
                                                >
                                                > [...]
                                                >
                                                > I found the following patch which adds support of Hunspell
                                                > dictionary in Vim:
                                                >
                                                > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=219777
                                                >
                                                > I tried the patch and it still works with latest vim-7.3.138
                                                > (I did not test it extensively yet). With some clean up, it
                                                > could be a good addition to Vim-7.4.
                                                >
                                                > [...]
                                                >
                                                > Using Hunspell dictionaries directly solves several issues.
                                                > I never managed to convert the latest French dictionary from
                                                > OpenOffice-3.x from Hunspell to Vim. The dictionaries from
                                                > OpenOffice-2.x are quite out of date (at least for French).
                                                > I wish I could use the latest dictionary from OpenOffice-3.x

                                                I managed to build vim74 including the patch for using hunspell, but how
                                                am I supposed to use it with vim?

                                                Many thanks in advance,

                                                --
                                                Cesar

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