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vim sf page ratings and feedback feature

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  • Marc Weber
    Hi Bram & community, There are two things on the Vim sf page which bugged me for years: a) There is no way for users adding comments. So as plugin author you
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 8, 2010
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      Hi Bram & community,

      There are two things on the Vim sf page which bugged me for years:

      a)
      There is no way for users adding comments.

      So as plugin author you just get feedback like a rating -2/2 but you
      have no clue why. That's very disappointing.
      This happened to me recently.
      http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2934
      I think this plugin is great because you don't have to remember dozens
      of mappings.

      To keep open source projects active you need positive feedback loops.
      This doesn't happen for Vim plugins.

      So consider one case: You have uploaded a bug by accident. One users
      downloads your plugin. It doesn't work. So he rates the plugin with
      (-1).

      You can fix the bug. You rating is still -1. The only thing you can do
      about it is polluting the page by adding a new plugin-name which is bad.

      b)
      users can't add comments. So if there is a newer plugin or if
      something didn't work or if users have additional comments whatsoever
      they can't put them on the site. The result is that the site isn't as
      valuable as it could be. Eg have a look php.net. If there is a bug
      everyone can upload a comment posting his workaround. It's ugly but it
      works pretty well.

      Indeed it can be much simpler. Adding one link to a discussion site on
      the Vim wiki eg http://$VIMWIK/pulgin_plguin_nr would be enough.
      Zero effort but much value.

      c) (less important)
      Plugin information can't be exported. This I and the author of Vimana
      we both implemented hacks to get a list of plugins to support
      installing plugins in an easier way.

      So I'd like to add an interface which returns a big json dict (which
      can be read by Vim!) telling about all plugins and their latest
      versions. This will safe some traffic and a lot of CPU power..

      I know both: PHP and MySQL. I can do all changes. There is one thing I'm
      unsure about. The Vim database contains information about who donated
      how much. This is sensible data. I'm not sure whether I should know
      about those records.

      So what shall I do to get these features implemented? Ask community on
      the mailinglist how they think about it?

      Those changes don't cause much work. But they will generate much value
      to everyone.

      Yours
      Marc Weber

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    • Maxim Kim
      Hi Marc, ... I agree - comments are good to have. But what about spammers? I rememember there was an issue with comments on Tips on vim.sf.net. Maxim. -- You
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 8, 2010
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        Hi Marc,

        On 9 фев, 02:20, Marc Weber <marco-owe...@...> wrote:
        > Hi Bram & community,
        >
        > There are two things on the Vim sf page which bugged me for years:
        >
        > a)
        >   There is no way for users adding comments.

        I agree - comments are good to have.

        But what about spammers? I rememember there was an issue with comments
        on 'Tips' on vim.sf.net.

        Maxim.

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      • Tom Link
        ... IIRC you were able to post a tip or commment on a tip as anonymous user without being logged in. Since there already are several vim-related collaborative
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 9, 2010
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          > But what about spammers? I rememember there was an issue with comments
          > on 'Tips' on vim.sf.net.

          IIRC you were able to post a tip or commment on a tip as anonymous
          user without being logged in.

          Since there already are several vim-related collaborative media in use
          (vim-use, vim.wikia) I wonder if it were possible to use one of those.
          E.g., the template for the plugin page could link to a wiki page with
          the script ID, e.g., http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Script123 Such a change
          should be rather easy to implement if the wiki maintainers agreed with
          this suggestion, I guess. Such a page could also be a place where
          users post tips & tricks & sample configurations related to a specific
          plugin.

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        • Marc Weber
          Hi Tom, ... Have a look at section b). I did suggest this. Users are lazy. So something native would be best. Anyway someone has to give me access to the code
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 9, 2010
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            Hi Tom,
            > the script ID, e.g., http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Script123 Such a change
            Have a look at section b).
            I did suggest this. Users are lazy. So something native would be best.

            Anyway someone has to give me access to the code so that I can implement
            those features. Maybe someone says he dislikes the ideas. So let's wait
            a couple of days..

            Thanks for your fedback!
            Marc Weber

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          • Ben Fritz
            ... For a while now, we ve been resisting having a wiki page for every plugin out there, as such information could easly become overwhelming or get out of
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 9, 2010
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              On Feb 9, 2:34 am, Tom Link <micat...@...> wrote:
              >
              > Since there already are several vim-related collaborative media in use
              > (vim-use, vim.wikia) I wonder if it were possible to use one of those.
              > E.g., the template for the plugin page could link to a wiki page with
              > the script ID, e.g.,http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Script123Such a change
              > should be rather easy to implement if the wiki maintainers agreed with
              > this suggestion, I guess. Such a page could also be a place where
              > users post tips & tricks & sample configurations related to a specific
              > plugin.

              For a while now, we've been resisting having a wiki page for every
              plugin out there, as such information could easly become overwhelming
              or get out of date. We want searches on the wiki to show mostly tips
              about how to use Vim, how to write scripts, etc. We didn't want it to
              become a place to search for plugins.

              Perhaps it would be possible, if we create a new namespace for the
              plugin pages (I think this is possible). Searches would by default not
              include these pages, but a user could specify that they *wanted* to
              search the plugin namespace if desired.

              We'd need to set up a standard format, maybe with a "bug reports"
              table that includes the script version of the bug, and a very obvious
              "current version" note at the top of the tip.

              I've copied the mailing list for the wiki.

              John, what do you think?

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            • Marc Weber
              Hi Ben, ... Just think about missing one comment: This plugin is superseded. It has been merged with xy.. use xy instead How much value can this one comment
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 9, 2010
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                Hi Ben,

                Excerpts from Ben Fritz's message of Tue Feb 09 17:40:15 +0100 2010:
                > plugin out there, [..]

                Just think about missing one comment:

                "This plugin is superseded. It has been merged with xy.. use xy instead"

                How much value can this one comment generate for you?

                Think about the original plugin author either
                a) died
                b) is no longer interested
                c) forgot his password (Yes! There is no way to get back a password. The page tells you so!)

                I agree that we never ever want to delete any version. But I think we
                must have a way to mark such packages as deprecated.

                I've started doing so in vim-addon-manager-known-repositories.
                However not many people are using it at this point in time.

                Why is this that important:
                If you look for scripts you do search www.vim.org first.
                It's much more unlikely that you look for comments on a wiki.

                I dream of:

                get plugin vim-addon-c(pp)-tools and have *all* features I can get doing C(++) development using Vim.
                Same for Ruby, Vim, Perl, Python, C#, etc.

                Because if man power is spread results will suffer. Vim *is* a great
                editor. However to keep everything working we have to join efforts else
                people (including me) will use Eclipse or such as main editor because
                IDE features do matter a lot. I agree that I'm a programmer and that I
                want to see specific features to get my work done faster. But it's
                programmers who can move Vim into the future. And if programmers have to
                spend weeks on setting up Vim they may just use another tool. Vim will
                never die. But it maybe won't have the market share it deserves..

                There are more things I don't understand yet. Python and Ruby are
                supported by Vim. But all interfaces seem to provide only a exec and a
                vimeval function. If you want to execute a simple command such as echoe
                you have to start thinking about quoting strings. Why don't those
                interfaces provide a simple vim_escape function ?
                But that's a different (off) topic..

                Marc Weber

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              • Bram Moolenaar
                ... The problem with feedback is that spammers will misuse it. We have had this problem with Vim tips before they were moved to the wikimedia site. If we can
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 9, 2010
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                  Marc Weber wrote:

                  > Hi Bram & community,
                  >
                  > There are two things on the Vim sf page which bugged me for years:
                  >
                  > a)
                  > There is no way for users adding comments.
                  >
                  > So as plugin author you just get feedback like a rating -2/2 but you
                  > have no clue why. That's very disappointing.
                  > This happened to me recently.
                  > http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2934
                  > I think this plugin is great because you don't have to remember dozens
                  > of mappings.
                  >
                  > To keep open source projects active you need positive feedback loops.
                  > This doesn't happen for Vim plugins.
                  >
                  > So consider one case: You have uploaded a bug by accident. One users
                  > downloads your plugin. It doesn't work. So he rates the plugin with
                  > (-1).
                  >
                  > You can fix the bug. You rating is still -1. The only thing you can do
                  > about it is polluting the page by adding a new plugin-name which is bad.

                  The problem with feedback is that spammers will misuse it. We have had
                  this problem with Vim tips before they were moved to the wikimedia site.

                  If we can put the comments also on the wikimedia site, with a link to
                  it, perhaps that would work.

                  > b)
                  > users can't add comments. So if there is a newer plugin or if
                  > something didn't work or if users have additional comments whatsoever
                  > they can't put them on the site. The result is that the site isn't as
                  > valuable as it could be. Eg have a look php.net. If there is a bug
                  > everyone can upload a comment posting his workaround. It's ugly but it
                  > works pretty well.
                  >
                  > Indeed it can be much simpler. Adding one link to a discussion site on
                  > the Vim wiki eg http://$VIMWIK/pulgin_plguin_nr would be enough.
                  > Zero effort but much value.

                  You can already add links, but a generic mechanism would indeed be
                  better.

                  There, I added a link in the header. Let me know if this will work.

                  John Beckett can perhaps set up a template for a scripts wiki page.

                  > c) (less important)
                  > Plugin information can't be exported. This I and the author of Vimana
                  > we both implemented hacks to get a list of plugins to support
                  > installing plugins in an easier way.
                  >
                  > So I'd like to add an interface which returns a big json dict (which
                  > can be read by Vim!) telling about all plugins and their latest
                  > versions. This will safe some traffic and a lot of CPU power..

                  Since there is no specified format, I don't know of a reliable way to do
                  this.

                  I don't think there is a way to get a list of uploaded files by date.
                  Perhaps that's all you need.

                  > I know both: PHP and MySQL. I can do all changes. There is one thing I'm
                  > unsure about. The Vim database contains information about who donated
                  > how much. This is sensible data. I'm not sure whether I should know
                  > about those records.
                  >
                  > So what shall I do to get these features implemented? Ask community on
                  > the mailinglist how they think about it?
                  >
                  > Those changes don't cause much work. But they will generate much value
                  > to everyone.

                  I'm careful about giving more people access to the site directly. If
                  you say what page you would want to change I can send you the php code
                  and you can send me a diff.

                  --
                  hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
                  211. Your husband leaves you...taking the computer with him and you
                  call him crying, and beg him to bring the computer back.

                  /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
                  /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
                  \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
                  \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org ///

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                • Tux
                  ... BTW, did you switch SF.net s new no export to North Korea switch? -- You received this message from the vim_dev maillist. For more information, visit
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 9, 2010
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                    Bram Moolenaar schrob am 09.02.2010 21:20:
                    > I'm careful about giving more people access to the site directly.
                    >

                    BTW, did you switch SF.net's new "no export to North Korea" switch?

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                  • John Beckett
                    ... Yes, we could request a namespace specifically for discussion of vim.org scripts. However, while the problem with vim.org/scripts is real, I do not want a
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 9, 2010
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                      Ben Fritz wrote:
                      > For a while now, we've been resisting having a wiki page for
                      > every plugin out there, as such information could easly become
                      > overwhelming or get out of date. We want searches on the wiki
                      > to show mostly tips about how to use Vim, how to write
                      > scripts, etc. We didn't want it to become a place to search
                      > for plugins.
                      >
                      > Perhaps it would be possible, if we create a new namespace for
                      > the plugin pages (I think this is possible). Searches would by
                      > default not include these pages, but a user could specify that
                      > they *wanted* to search the plugin namespace if desired.

                      Yes, we could request a namespace specifically for discussion of
                      vim.org scripts. However, while the problem with vim.org/scripts
                      is real, I do not want a bunch of extra pages dumped on the wiki
                      because such pages:
                      - overwhelm people looking for basic information
                      - become obsolete as once-enthusiastic authors move on
                      - have to be maintained by me and Ben Fritz

                      If we could start again, vim.org/scripts might be managed
                      differently, but I think there is too much history now for any
                      realistic collaboration between the scripts site and a wiki
                      because we cannot force people to update the information on two
                      different sites.

                      If it were possible to put the plugins into a reasonably small
                      number of categories, then it would be reasonable to have one
                      wiki page per category of script. For example, one wiki page
                      would list all non-obsolete plugins relating to searching, with
                      brief notes on status and usage, and a link to the
                      vim.org/scripts page for installation and usage notes.

                      I made a page on the wiki to hold various scripts that had
                      previously been described in separate tips. I think the format
                      is useful to allow readers to quickly scan for interesting
                      scripts:
                      http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Vim_scripts

                      There was a suggestion that a wiki page would allow users to
                      write meaningful comments with useful feedback. Unfortunately,
                      I think useful comments would be very rare because people are
                      overwhelmed with choice on the Internet, and Vim is now just
                      another tool, and the hard-core Vim users are just using Vim,
                      having got over the initial wave of evangelism that creates an
                      interactive fan base.

                      John

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                    • Ingo Karkat
                      ... I agree that there should be very few committers to the site; however, in my opinion, freely sharing the (PHP) source code of the site might have
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 9, 2010
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                        On 09-Feb-2010 21:20, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                        > I'm careful about giving more people access to the site directly. If
                        > you say what page you would want to change I can send you the php code
                        > and you can send me a diff.

                        I agree that there should be very few committers to the site; however, in my
                        opinion, freely sharing the (PHP) source code of the site might have encouraged
                        more people to send you a patch in order to improve the site's functionality.
                        As it is, there are these occasional discussions about the site's deficiencies,
                        but nobody is able to step up and implement an alternative, because the source
                        code is relatively closed.

                        So, I would propose putting the vim.org's source code (not the actual user
                        database and scripts!) into a (Mercurial?) repository (separate from Vim's
                        source code).

                        -- regards, ingo

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                      • Bram Moolenaar
                        ... This would also make the site vunerable for hackers. I don t know enough PHP to locate possible holes and opening it up won t fix that. I rather not do
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 10, 2010
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                          Ingo Karkat wrote:

                          > On 09-Feb-2010 21:20, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                          > > I'm careful about giving more people access to the site directly. If
                          > > you say what page you would want to change I can send you the php code
                          > > and you can send me a diff.
                          >
                          > I agree that there should be very few committers to the site; however,
                          > in my opinion, freely sharing the (PHP) source code of the site might
                          > have encouraged more people to send you a patch in order to improve
                          > the site's functionality. As it is, there are these occasional
                          > discussions about the site's deficiencies, but nobody is able to step
                          > up and implement an alternative, because the source
                          > code is relatively closed.
                          >
                          > So, I would propose putting the vim.org's source code (not the actual
                          > user database and scripts!) into a (Mercurial?) repository (separate
                          > from Vim's source code).

                          This would also make the site vunerable for hackers. I don't know
                          enough PHP to locate possible holes and opening it up won't fix that.
                          I rather not do this. Having only a few maintainers looking at the code
                          is better.

                          --
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                          212. Your Internet group window has more icons than your Accessories window.

                          /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
                          /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
                          \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
                          \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org ///

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                        • Tom Sorensen
                          ... Really? Security through obscurity? If the site is vulnerable, then I don t believe that having the source hidden is going to significantly deter a hacker.
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 10, 2010
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                            On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Bram Moolenaar <Bram@...> wrote:
                            > This would also make the site vunerable for hackers.  I don't know
                            > enough PHP to locate possible holes and opening it up won't fix that.
                            > I rather not do this.  Having only a few maintainers looking at the code
                            > is better.

                            Really? Security through obscurity?

                            If the site is vulnerable, then I don't believe that having the source
                            hidden is going to significantly deter a hacker. It will certainly
                            impede any attempts to fix it though.

                            I love vim and greatly appreciate all of the work you've put into it
                            and the community over the past two decades. But the website really
                            could use some improvement. The wiki has done a lot to fill some of
                            the need (a need we see regularly on the #vim IRC channel), but having
                            tighter integration with the main site would be far better, without
                            overwhelming the wiki. That's not going to happen unless people like
                            Marc can easily and readily provide help where they can.

                            Tom

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                          • Marc Weber
                            We should start a wiki page containing a website wish list. We can put up a summary of changes there. Bram: I m totally fine with sending you diffs. If nobody
                            Message 13 of 20 , Feb 10, 2010
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                              We should start a wiki page containing a website wish list.
                              We can put up a summary of changes there.

                              Bram: I'm totally fine with sending you diffs.

                              If nobody else does I'll create this wiki page within 24h

                              Marc Weber

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                            • Marc Weber
                              Done. If you have further suggestions reply to this thread or add them to this wiki page yourself.
                              Message 14 of 20 , Feb 10, 2010
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                                Done. If you have further suggestions reply to this thread or add them
                                to this wiki page yourself.
                                http://vim.wikia.com/index.php?title=Vim_Homepage_Wishlist&action=edit

                                I also suggested removing the negative rating feature. Maybe its
                                misused. If people don't like a plugin they should add comments telling
                                why.

                                Also have a look at a new idea e) It may or it may not take off.
                                I think there are that many people using vim that this could actually
                                make sense..

                                e) I'd like to see Vim making more progress. Thanks to Bram for having
                                added completion features. However there is more which could be done.
                                What's the problem? Vim is complex. Many configuration options, many
                                guis. So it's hard to test. You need some time getting started. Most
                                people just want to get done their job. So it's hard to get started in
                                Vim development. So what about adding a page to the homepage where
                                everyone can add a feature request and say he'd pay $ x for it. Someone
                                else might join and say he'd pay $ y for it. Then a third person steps
                                up and says: Hey. I'd take the money and implement it (maybe a fraction
                                can be given to Uganda?). Than a Vim developer can have an (probably
                                small ?) income and many people can benefit. Such a feature wish list
                                could look like:

                                feature | description | sum of $ which people are willing
                                | | to spend on developing a feature
                                -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                async communication| find a way to talk to external apps. | $100 (3 people)
                                | This will make implementing debuggers |
                                | and the like feasable |
                                -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                on the fly | make scripting languages provide |
                                type checking | the error list |
                                -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                on :e! don't loose | |
                                history | |

                                Does a simple buildfarm exists which builds Vim in various configuration
                                options doing some sanity checks?

                                Marc Weber

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                              • Ingo Karkat
                                ... PHP is very common; there are many Vim users with a lot of PHP knowledge out there. The vim.org site isn t very complex; I guess one or two capable
                                Message 15 of 20 , Feb 10, 2010
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                                  On 10-Feb-2010 15:47, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                                  > Ingo Karkat wrote:
                                  >> So, I would propose putting the vim.org's source code (not the actual
                                  >> user database and scripts!) into a (Mercurial?) repository (separate
                                  >> from Vim's source code).
                                  >
                                  > This would also make the site vunerable for hackers. I don't know
                                  > enough PHP to locate possible holes and opening it up won't fix that.
                                  > I rather not do this. Having only a few maintainers looking at the code
                                  > is better.

                                  PHP is very common; there are many Vim users with a lot of PHP knowledge out
                                  there. The vim.org site isn't very complex; I guess one or two capable
                                  contributors would be able to quickly review and fix any security issues. I
                                  certainly would (but I'm afraid my PHP isn't any better than yours), just out of
                                  gratitude for Vim and the great community.

                                  Leaving aside the whole "security by obscurity" topic, I'd venture that the
                                  tech-savvy vim.org community isn't a prime target for hackers, so IMO it's worth
                                  a risk. As you can see from the replies to this thread, the current site is
                                  minimal and okay, but there are many ideas for improvements out there. In the
                                  past years, many open source projects have really lifted the bar for community
                                  sites...

                                  -- regards, ingo

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                                • Marc Weber
                                  ... I don t think it s a problem. Bram said he will forward sources to interested people. I just said he won t forward it to everyone. I don t think this is
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Feb 11, 2010
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                                    Excerpts from Ingo Karkat's message of Thu Feb 11 07:32:53 +0100 2010:
                                    > On 10-Feb-2010 15:47, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                                    > > Ingo Karkat wrote:
                                    > >> So, I would propose putting the vim.org's source code (not the actual
                                    > >> user database and scripts!) into a (Mercurial?) repository (separate
                                    > >> from Vim's source code).
                                    > >
                                    > > This would also make the site vunerable for hackers. I don't know
                                    > > enough PHP to locate possible holes and opening it up won't fix that.
                                    > > I rather not do this. Having only a few maintainers looking at the code
                                    > > is better.
                                    >
                                    > PHP is very common; there are many Vim users with a lot of PHP knowledge out
                                    > there. The vim.org site isn't very complex; I guess one or two capable
                                    > contributors would be able to quickly review and fix any security issues. I
                                    > certainly would (but I'm afraid my PHP isn't any better than yours), just out of
                                    > gratitude for Vim and the great community.
                                    >
                                    > Leaving aside the whole "security by obscurity" topic, I'd venture that the
                                    > tech-savvy vim.org community isn't a prime target for hackers, so IMO it's worth
                                    > a risk. As you can see from the replies to this thread, the current site is
                                    > minimal and okay, but there are many ideas for improvements out there. In the
                                    > past years, many open source projects have really lifted the bar for community
                                    > sites...

                                    I don't think it's a problem. Bram said he will forward sources to
                                    interested people. I just said he won't forward it to everyone. I don't
                                    think this is limiting us. We have to know how the "new" (?) site should
                                    look like. So let's discuss new features or changes rather than the how
                                    to do it. Bram replied and he's listening. So I'm sure we'll find a way
                                    to achieve the goals. We have to define those.

                                    Marc Weber

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                                  • Ben Schmidt
                                    ... My PHP is pretty good; MySQL also, though old-fashioned. If I can be of assistance looking over code, or helping with development for a better site, I d be
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Feb 11, 2010
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                                      On 12/02/10 3:34 AM, Marc Weber wrote:
                                      > Excerpts from Ingo Karkat's message of Thu Feb 11 07:32:53 +0100 2010:
                                      >> On 10-Feb-2010 15:47, Bram Moolenaar wrote:
                                      >>> Ingo Karkat wrote:
                                      >>>> So, I would propose putting the vim.org's source code (not the actual
                                      >>>> user database and scripts!) into a (Mercurial?) repository (separate
                                      >>>> from Vim's source code).
                                      >>>
                                      >>> This would also make the site vunerable for hackers. I don't know
                                      >>> enough PHP to locate possible holes and opening it up won't fix that.
                                      >>> I rather not do this. Having only a few maintainers looking at the code
                                      >>> is better.
                                      >>
                                      >> PHP is very common; there are many Vim users with a lot of PHP
                                      >> knowledge out there. The vim.org site isn't very complex; I guess one
                                      >> or two capable contributors would be able to quickly review and fix
                                      >> any security issues. I certainly would (but I'm afraid my PHP isn't
                                      >> any better than yours), just out of gratitude for Vim and the great
                                      >> community.

                                      My PHP is pretty good; MySQL also, though old-fashioned. If I can be of
                                      assistance looking over code, or helping with development for a better
                                      site, I'd be more than happy to.

                                      I agree with Bram and Marc that having a few interested people looking
                                      at the site code rather than making it public is fine. We're a pretty
                                      tech-savvy community, but that doesn't mean everybody has time to devote
                                      to fixing security holes, particularly not with the sort of notice you
                                      get with a hacker attack!

                                      Ben.




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                                    • Ben Fritz
                                      ... John s been a busy bee and got a new namespace on the wiki for script comments, a policy page for it, and a nifty template for each script page providing a
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Feb 13, 2010
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                                        On Feb 10, 12:44 am, "John Beckett" <johnb.beck...@...> wrote:
                                        > Yes, we could request a namespace specifically for discussion of
                                        > vim.org scripts. However, while the problem with vim.org/scripts
                                        > is real, I do not want a bunch of extra pages dumped on the wiki
                                        > because such pages:
                                        > - overwhelm people looking for basic information
                                        > - become obsolete as once-enthusiastic authors move on
                                        > - have to be maintained by me and Ben Fritz
                                        >

                                        John's been a busy bee and got a new namespace on the wiki for script
                                        comments, a policy page for it, and a nifty template for each script
                                        page providing a disclaimer and brief instructions, along with the
                                        script name and a link back to vim.org.

                                        Check it out:

                                        http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Vim_Tips_Wiki:Script_comment_guidelines
                                        http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Script:1234

                                        Bram, I'm not sure if John emailed you privately, but if you'd change
                                        the link to the wiki on vim.org pages from Script-1234 to Script:1234,
                                        I think that's all that you need change.

                                        Comments are, of course, welcome.

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                                      • Marc Weber
                                        ... Looks great. However I d move the Wiki link near the rating. And I d still remove negative ratings. Scripts which are awesome will have a high rating
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Feb 13, 2010
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                                          Excerpts from Ben Fritz's message of Sat Feb 13 19:16:42 +0100 2010:
                                          >
                                          > On Feb 10, 12:44 am, "John Beckett" <johnb.beck...@...> wrote:
                                          > > Yes, we could request a namespace specifically for discussion of
                                          > > vim.org scripts. However, while the problem with vim.org/scripts
                                          > > is real, I do not want a bunch of extra pages dumped on the wiki
                                          > > because such pages:
                                          > > - overwhelm people looking for basic information
                                          > > - become obsolete as once-enthusiastic authors move on
                                          > > - have to be maintained by me and Ben Fritz
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > John's been a busy bee and got a new namespace on the wiki for script
                                          > comments, a policy page for it, and a nifty template for each script
                                          > page providing a disclaimer and brief instructions, along with the
                                          > script name and a link back to vim.org.
                                          >
                                          > Check it out:
                                          >
                                          > http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Vim_Tips_Wiki:Script_comment_guidelines
                                          > http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Script:1234
                                          >
                                          > Bram, I'm not sure if John emailed you privately, but if you'd change
                                          > the link to the wiki on vim.org pages from Script-1234 to Script:1234,
                                          > I think that's all that you need change.

                                          Looks great. However I'd move the Wiki link near the rating. And I'd
                                          still remove negative ratings. Scripts which are awesome will have a
                                          high rating anyway and you're interested in them.

                                          Is there a way to add the wiki frame to the vim sf script page?
                                          If some people don't like it we can add an option to hide it (based on
                                          cookies).

                                          Marc Weber

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                                        • Tony Mechelynck
                                          On 11/02/10 01:23, Marc Weber wrote: [...] ... It s easy to construct one, but only on Unix-like systems, including Unix-like Cygwin and (IIUC) Mac OS X. Not
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Apr 4, 2010
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                                            On 11/02/10 01:23, Marc Weber wrote:
                                            [...]
                                            > Does a simple buildfarm exists which builds Vim in various configuration
                                            > options doing some sanity checks?
                                            >
                                            > Marc Weber
                                            >

                                            It's easy to construct one, but only on Unix-like systems, including
                                            Unix-like Cygwin and (IIUC) Mac OS X. Not on native-Windows AFAIK,
                                            because the configure script doesn't run on that platform. I guess you
                                            (Marc) know the following but I'm spelling it out for anyone interested:

                                            0) Get the source.
                                            1) Make as many "shadow" subdirectories of src/ as you want different
                                            configurations, using "make shadow" with src/Makefile; after each pass,
                                            rename src/shadow (or comment away the Makefile line "SHADOWDIR =
                                            shadow" and define SHADOWDIR differently yourself for each run of "make
                                            shadow").
                                            2) Construct shell include scripts (let's call them
                                            src/$SHADOWDIR/config.sh) similar to the one near the top of my howto
                                            page http://users/.skynet.be/antoine.mechelynck/vim/compunix.htm , one
                                            per configuration with the desired settings.
                                            -- For some particularly "unusual" configurations, you may have to break
                                            the softlink for feature.h and comment or uncomment some of its lines
                                            differently in different shadowdirs.
                                            3) In each shadowdir:
                                            source config.sh
                                            make && make test

                                            Notes:

                                            * Run the above in a different shell for each shadowdir to avoid stray
                                            environment variables carrying over from one run to the next. You may
                                            run them in parallel if you want (and if your machine has the resources
                                            to make it useful).

                                            * config.sh must be sourced, not run, because its purpose is to modify
                                            the environment: it must NOT be run in a subshell.

                                            * "make" runs configure implicitly if auto/config.cache doesn't exist;
                                            if you changed the config.sh or the installed software, use "make
                                            reconfig" instead (or precede "make" by rm -vf auto/config.cache or by
                                            make distclean) to force a configure pass followed by a full compile.

                                            * "make test" is supposed to run a number of post-compile sanity checks
                                            on the newly produced executable. I haven't tried it yet. Pre-compile
                                            sanity checks (on your software environment and configuration settings)
                                            are done by configure.


                                            Best regards,
                                            Tony.
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