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RE: Problem with "without Cream" vim-7.2.303 _vimrc

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  • John Beckett
    ... No. People have complained on the wiki that the Vim without Cream distribution does NOT work with diff. There were several misguided suggestions for how
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 2, 2009
      Steve Hall wrote:
      > Hmm, so then the original MyDiff() might have been ok for you?

      No. People have complained on the wiki that the "Vim without
      Cream" distribution does NOT work with diff. There were several
      misguided suggestions for how to make it work. Last March, I did
      some quick investigations and rewrote the tip:

      http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Running_diff

      For anyone interested, here is how the tip looked before my
      rewrite:
      http://vim.wikia.com/index.php?title=Running_diff&oldid=22184

      I should set up a clean Windows virtual machine and install the
      standard Vim distribution to see what it does. Maybe later...

      John

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    • Henrik Öhman
      ... I was wondering why I hadn t discovered this problem, and then I realised it s because I haven t used the _vimrc that Vim without Cream uses since I
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 3, 2009
        On Dec 3, 2:14 am, "John Beckett" <johnb.beck...@...> wrote:
        > Steve Hall wrote:
        > > Hmm, so then the original MyDiff() might have been ok for you?
        >
        > No. People have complained on the wiki that the "Vim without
        > Cream" distribution does NOT work with diff. There were several
        > misguided suggestions for how to make it work. Last March, I did
        > some quick investigations and rewrote the tip:
        >
        > http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Running_diff

        I was wondering why I hadn't discovered this problem, and then I
        realised it's because I haven't used the _vimrc that "Vim without
        Cream" uses since I first installed Vim. Diffing with Vim on Windows
        works excellently with 'diffexpr=', and I suggest that Steve removes
        the setting of 'diffexpr' and the MyDiff() function from the default
        _vimrc.

        While we're at it, I also suggest removing 'source $VIMRUNTIME/
        mswin.vim'. It might seem that it makes the transition to Vim for
        windows users easier, when all it really does is delay the inevitable
        'learn to use Vim the way it was meant to be used' brick wall that
        every user has to run into sooner or later. At the very least, there
        should be a warning sign on that line, saying that using 'mswin.vim'
        changes the default behaviour of Vim, and that it might cause
        confusion when asking for help. (Also note that 'mswin.vim' does
        'behave mswin', so that line is redundant anyway.)

        I'd prefer just using 'vimrc_example.vim' as the default _vimrc for
        Windows. It contains good defaults, and good comments, and it helps
        the user to understand what the _vimrc is. For more opinions, I think
        raising the question on vim_use would be a good idea.

        Henrik.

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      • Steve Hall
        ... I have to admit, I haven t used a default vimrc since 1999. :) ... It is up to the Vim project (Bram) to decide what the default _vimrc is, our distro is
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 3, 2009
          On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 03:49 -0800, Henrik Öhman wrote:
          >
          > I was wondering why I hadn't discovered this problem, and then I
          > realised it's because I haven't used the _vimrc that "Vim without
          > Cream" uses since I first installed Vim.

          I have to admit, I haven't used a default vimrc since 1999. :)

          > Diffing with Vim on Windows works excellently with 'diffexpr=', and
          > I suggest that Steve removes the setting of 'diffexpr' and the
          > MyDiff() function from the default _vimrc.

          It is up to the Vim project (Bram) to decide what the default _vimrc
          is, our distro is simply going to mirror it.

          > While we're at it, I also suggest removing 'source $VIMRUNTIME/
          > mswin.vim'. It might seem that it makes the transition to Vim for
          > windows users easier, when all it really does is delay the
          > inevitable 'learn to use Vim the way it was meant to be used' brick
          > wall that every user has to run into sooner or later. At the very
          > least, there should be a warning sign on that line, saying that
          > using 'mswin.vim' changes the default behaviour of Vim, and that it
          > might cause confusion when asking for help. (Also note that
          > 'mswin.vim' does 'behave mswin', so that line is redundant anyway.)

          Again, I believe referencing mswin in the vimrc is the default, which
          is the only reason our distro does it.

          I agree with your sentiments regarding the suitability of mswin, too,
          although in addition to your "learning Vim" concerns, I include that
          it also doesn't go far enough to help on the other side. Windows
          applications (as well as Mac and Gnome ones) use a whole set of common
          interface rules that mswin does not address, and so a user referencing
          it is left in a sort of semi-Vim state. (And no where close to a CUA
          state as they might expect.) Say, I know a configuration that does
          this though... :)

          > I'd prefer just using 'vimrc_example.vim' as the default _vimrc for
          > Windows. It contains good defaults, and good comments, and it helps
          > the user to understand what the _vimrc is. For more opinions, I
          > think raising the question on vim_use would be a good idea.

          I'm happy to adjust our distro to do whatever ends up in the default
          Vim distribution.


          --
          Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ]


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        • Tony Mechelynck
          ... I suggested years ago that mswin.vim be removed (when still on Vim 6.1 [my first Vim], I think, and in any case no later than 6.3) and AFAICT most
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 3, 2009
            On 03/12/09 12:49, Henrik Öhman wrote:
            > On Dec 3, 2:14 am, "John Beckett"<johnb.beck...@...> wrote:
            >> Steve Hall wrote:
            >>> Hmm, so then the original MyDiff() might have been ok for you?
            >>
            >> No. People have complained on the wiki that the "Vim without
            >> Cream" distribution does NOT work with diff. There were several
            >> misguided suggestions for how to make it work. Last March, I did
            >> some quick investigations and rewrote the tip:
            >>
            >> http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Running_diff
            >
            > I was wondering why I hadn't discovered this problem, and then I
            > realised it's because I haven't used the _vimrc that "Vim without
            > Cream" uses since I first installed Vim. Diffing with Vim on Windows
            > works excellently with 'diffexpr=', and I suggest that Steve removes
            > the setting of 'diffexpr' and the MyDiff() function from the default
            > _vimrc.
            >
            > While we're at it, I also suggest removing 'source $VIMRUNTIME/
            > mswin.vim'. It might seem that it makes the transition to Vim for
            > windows users easier, when all it really does is delay the inevitable
            > 'learn to use Vim the way it was meant to be used' brick wall that
            > every user has to run into sooner or later. At the very least, there
            > should be a warning sign on that line, saying that using 'mswin.vim'
            > changes the default behaviour of Vim, and that it might cause
            > confusion when asking for help. (Also note that 'mswin.vim' does
            > 'behave mswin', so that line is redundant anyway.)

            I suggested years ago that mswin.vim be removed (when still on Vim 6.1
            [my first Vim], I think, and in any case no later than 6.3) and AFAICT
            most experienced Vim hands find mswin.vim a nuisance, but IIUC Bram was
            (and is?) against it. Some people think that making Vim look "more like
            Notepad" will bring more Windows users to Vim; I think that Vim is Vim,
            Notepad is Notepad, and whoever tries to mix them up is bound to end up
            with a self-inflicted shotgun wound in his foot.

            >
            > I'd prefer just using 'vimrc_example.vim' as the default _vimrc for
            > Windows. It contains good defaults, and good comments, and it helps
            > the user to understand what the _vimrc is. For more opinions, I think
            > raising the question on vim_use would be a good idea.
            >
            > Henrik.
            >

            I regard vimrc_example.vim as a good starting point for a vimrc on any
            platform. My recommendation is to start with a vimrc containing just

            runtime vimrc_example.vim

            and then, as time goes by, add more customizations below that (or very
            rarely above it).


            Best regards,
            Tony.
            --
            Would you mind terribly much if I asked you to take your silly-assed
            problem down the hall?

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