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Re: Problem with "without Cream" vim-7.2.303 _vimrc

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  • Steve Hall
    ... Then I wonder what the origins of MyDiff() are? Why did it come about? -- Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ] -- You received this message from the
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 2, 2009
      On Wed, 2009-12-02 at 15:33 -0800, Gary Johnson wrote:
      >
      > I just ran that experiment on this minimalist system on which I had
      > installed vim "without Cream" 7.2.303. I commented-out the "set
      > diffexpr=MyDiff()" line in my _vimrc, then executed "Diff with Vim"
      > from the Explorer context menu on a couple of files. It worked
      > fine!

      Then I wonder what the origins of MyDiff() are? Why did it come about?

      --
      Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ]


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    • John Beckett
      ... No. People have complained on the wiki that the Vim without Cream distribution does NOT work with diff. There were several misguided suggestions for how
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 2, 2009
        Steve Hall wrote:
        > Hmm, so then the original MyDiff() might have been ok for you?

        No. People have complained on the wiki that the "Vim without
        Cream" distribution does NOT work with diff. There were several
        misguided suggestions for how to make it work. Last March, I did
        some quick investigations and rewrote the tip:

        http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Running_diff

        For anyone interested, here is how the tip looked before my
        rewrite:
        http://vim.wikia.com/index.php?title=Running_diff&oldid=22184

        I should set up a clean Windows virtual machine and install the
        standard Vim distribution to see what it does. Maybe later...

        John

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      • Henrik Öhman
        ... I was wondering why I hadn t discovered this problem, and then I realised it s because I haven t used the _vimrc that Vim without Cream uses since I
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 3, 2009
          On Dec 3, 2:14 am, "John Beckett" <johnb.beck...@...> wrote:
          > Steve Hall wrote:
          > > Hmm, so then the original MyDiff() might have been ok for you?
          >
          > No. People have complained on the wiki that the "Vim without
          > Cream" distribution does NOT work with diff. There were several
          > misguided suggestions for how to make it work. Last March, I did
          > some quick investigations and rewrote the tip:
          >
          > http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Running_diff

          I was wondering why I hadn't discovered this problem, and then I
          realised it's because I haven't used the _vimrc that "Vim without
          Cream" uses since I first installed Vim. Diffing with Vim on Windows
          works excellently with 'diffexpr=', and I suggest that Steve removes
          the setting of 'diffexpr' and the MyDiff() function from the default
          _vimrc.

          While we're at it, I also suggest removing 'source $VIMRUNTIME/
          mswin.vim'. It might seem that it makes the transition to Vim for
          windows users easier, when all it really does is delay the inevitable
          'learn to use Vim the way it was meant to be used' brick wall that
          every user has to run into sooner or later. At the very least, there
          should be a warning sign on that line, saying that using 'mswin.vim'
          changes the default behaviour of Vim, and that it might cause
          confusion when asking for help. (Also note that 'mswin.vim' does
          'behave mswin', so that line is redundant anyway.)

          I'd prefer just using 'vimrc_example.vim' as the default _vimrc for
          Windows. It contains good defaults, and good comments, and it helps
          the user to understand what the _vimrc is. For more opinions, I think
          raising the question on vim_use would be a good idea.

          Henrik.

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        • Steve Hall
          ... I have to admit, I haven t used a default vimrc since 1999. :) ... It is up to the Vim project (Bram) to decide what the default _vimrc is, our distro is
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 3, 2009
            On Thu, 2009-12-03 at 03:49 -0800, Henrik Öhman wrote:
            >
            > I was wondering why I hadn't discovered this problem, and then I
            > realised it's because I haven't used the _vimrc that "Vim without
            > Cream" uses since I first installed Vim.

            I have to admit, I haven't used a default vimrc since 1999. :)

            > Diffing with Vim on Windows works excellently with 'diffexpr=', and
            > I suggest that Steve removes the setting of 'diffexpr' and the
            > MyDiff() function from the default _vimrc.

            It is up to the Vim project (Bram) to decide what the default _vimrc
            is, our distro is simply going to mirror it.

            > While we're at it, I also suggest removing 'source $VIMRUNTIME/
            > mswin.vim'. It might seem that it makes the transition to Vim for
            > windows users easier, when all it really does is delay the
            > inevitable 'learn to use Vim the way it was meant to be used' brick
            > wall that every user has to run into sooner or later. At the very
            > least, there should be a warning sign on that line, saying that
            > using 'mswin.vim' changes the default behaviour of Vim, and that it
            > might cause confusion when asking for help. (Also note that
            > 'mswin.vim' does 'behave mswin', so that line is redundant anyway.)

            Again, I believe referencing mswin in the vimrc is the default, which
            is the only reason our distro does it.

            I agree with your sentiments regarding the suitability of mswin, too,
            although in addition to your "learning Vim" concerns, I include that
            it also doesn't go far enough to help on the other side. Windows
            applications (as well as Mac and Gnome ones) use a whole set of common
            interface rules that mswin does not address, and so a user referencing
            it is left in a sort of semi-Vim state. (And no where close to a CUA
            state as they might expect.) Say, I know a configuration that does
            this though... :)

            > I'd prefer just using 'vimrc_example.vim' as the default _vimrc for
            > Windows. It contains good defaults, and good comments, and it helps
            > the user to understand what the _vimrc is. For more opinions, I
            > think raising the question on vim_use would be a good idea.

            I'm happy to adjust our distro to do whatever ends up in the default
            Vim distribution.


            --
            Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ]


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          • Tony Mechelynck
            ... I suggested years ago that mswin.vim be removed (when still on Vim 6.1 [my first Vim], I think, and in any case no later than 6.3) and AFAICT most
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 3, 2009
              On 03/12/09 12:49, Henrik Öhman wrote:
              > On Dec 3, 2:14 am, "John Beckett"<johnb.beck...@...> wrote:
              >> Steve Hall wrote:
              >>> Hmm, so then the original MyDiff() might have been ok for you?
              >>
              >> No. People have complained on the wiki that the "Vim without
              >> Cream" distribution does NOT work with diff. There were several
              >> misguided suggestions for how to make it work. Last March, I did
              >> some quick investigations and rewrote the tip:
              >>
              >> http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Running_diff
              >
              > I was wondering why I hadn't discovered this problem, and then I
              > realised it's because I haven't used the _vimrc that "Vim without
              > Cream" uses since I first installed Vim. Diffing with Vim on Windows
              > works excellently with 'diffexpr=', and I suggest that Steve removes
              > the setting of 'diffexpr' and the MyDiff() function from the default
              > _vimrc.
              >
              > While we're at it, I also suggest removing 'source $VIMRUNTIME/
              > mswin.vim'. It might seem that it makes the transition to Vim for
              > windows users easier, when all it really does is delay the inevitable
              > 'learn to use Vim the way it was meant to be used' brick wall that
              > every user has to run into sooner or later. At the very least, there
              > should be a warning sign on that line, saying that using 'mswin.vim'
              > changes the default behaviour of Vim, and that it might cause
              > confusion when asking for help. (Also note that 'mswin.vim' does
              > 'behave mswin', so that line is redundant anyway.)

              I suggested years ago that mswin.vim be removed (when still on Vim 6.1
              [my first Vim], I think, and in any case no later than 6.3) and AFAICT
              most experienced Vim hands find mswin.vim a nuisance, but IIUC Bram was
              (and is?) against it. Some people think that making Vim look "more like
              Notepad" will bring more Windows users to Vim; I think that Vim is Vim,
              Notepad is Notepad, and whoever tries to mix them up is bound to end up
              with a self-inflicted shotgun wound in his foot.

              >
              > I'd prefer just using 'vimrc_example.vim' as the default _vimrc for
              > Windows. It contains good defaults, and good comments, and it helps
              > the user to understand what the _vimrc is. For more opinions, I think
              > raising the question on vim_use would be a good idea.
              >
              > Henrik.
              >

              I regard vimrc_example.vim as a good starting point for a vimrc on any
              platform. My recommendation is to start with a vimrc containing just

              runtime vimrc_example.vim

              and then, as time goes by, add more customizations below that (or very
              rarely above it).


              Best regards,
              Tony.
              --
              Would you mind terribly much if I asked you to take your silly-assed
              problem down the hall?

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