Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Patch to try out: ":unsilent"

Expand Messages
  • Matt Wozniski
    Oops, accidentally sent this to Bram off-list. ... It just seems that it would be nicer if each plugin didn t need to roll its own ad-hoc logging solution.
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 2, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Oops, accidentally sent this to Bram off-list.

      Bram Moolenaar wrote:
      >
      > Matt Wozniski wrote:
      >
      >> Bram Moolenaar wrote:
      >> >
      >> > Any comments on adding the ":unsilent" command modifier?
      >>
      >> Maybe we could add
      >> a :msgonly modifier that behaves like :silent but does add to the
      >> message history?
      >
      > The message history is to store displayed messages.  If a message isn't
      > displayed then it should not be in the history.
      >
      > If you want to log some things to see what your plugin is doing you can
      > use a global List and append to that.

      It just seems that it would be nicer if each plugin didn't need to
      roll its own ad-hoc logging solution.  When something goes wrong, a
      lot of experienced vim users will instinctively check :messages to see
      if an error managed to slip by them unnoticed, so the message history
      seems like an intuitive place to do logging.  It not only would save
      plugin authors the need to roll their own logging solution, but would
      save plugin users from having to learn which plugins do provide their
      own logging, and learning how to view the log for each.

      It's not something I feel terribly strongly about one way or the
      other, but I definitely think that extending the message history from
      it's current definition to "A list of messages that can give you
      insight about what happened recently" would be more useful.

      ~Matt

      --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
      You received this message from the "vim_dev" maillist.
      For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
      -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
    • Ingo Karkat
      ... I guessed you would want this for debugging / logging, though one has to differentiate: If the plugin really needs to inform the user about something, ...
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 2, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        On 02-Jul-09 22:47, Matt Wozniski wrote:
        > Bram Moolenaar wrote:
        >> Matt Wozniski wrote:
        >>> Bram Moolenaar wrote:
        >>>> Any comments on adding the ":unsilent" command modifier?
        >>> Maybe we could add
        >>> a :msgonly modifier that behaves like :silent but does add to the
        >>> message history?
        >> The message history is to store displayed messages. If a message isn't
        >> displayed then it should not be in the history.
        >>
        >> If you want to log some things to see what your plugin is doing you can
        >> use a global List and append to that.
        >
        > It just seems that it would be nicer if each plugin didn't need to
        > roll its own ad-hoc logging solution. When something goes wrong, a
        > lot of experienced vim users will instinctively check :messages to see
        > if an error managed to slip by them unnoticed, so the message history
        > seems like an intuitive place to do logging. It not only would save
        > plugin authors the need to roll their own logging solution, but would
        > save plugin users from having to learn which plugins do provide their
        > own logging, and learning how to view the log for each.
        >
        > It's not something I feel terribly strongly about one way or the
        > other, but I definitely think that extending the message history from
        > it's current definition to "A list of messages that can give you
        > insight about what happened recently" would be more useful.

        I guessed you would want this for debugging / logging, though one has to
        differentiate: If the plugin really needs to inform the user about something,
        :echomsg fits perfectly, and the message should also be visible. If this is
        internal, implementation-specific tracing stuff for debugging by plugin writers
        or troubleshooting, this should normally be hidden from view.

        For the latter purpose, I use :echomsg during development, and comment out these
        before moving the script into production. I know about Dr.Chip's Decho plugin,
        which provides much more functionality in that area. Of course, as a plugin
        author, I would love to have :tracemsg, :set trace=myscript,yourscript and :set
        tracefile=/tmp/trace.log commands built-in. But I don't think these should be
        combined into the :messages functionality.

        -- just my two cents, ingo
        --
        -- Ingo Karkat -- /^-- /^-- /^-- /^-- /^-- /^-- http://ingo-karkat.de/ --
        -- http://vim.sourceforge.net/account/profile.php?user_id=9713 --


        --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
        You received this message from the "vim_dev" maillist.
        For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
        -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
      • Bram Moolenaar
        ... Look at the stuff that Charles Campbell made. I don t think that uniform logging will help, really. I mean, what s simpler than: let g:mylog = [] ...
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 3, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Matt Wozniski wrote:

          > Oops, accidentally sent this to Bram off-list.
          >
          > Bram Moolenaar wrote:
          > >
          > > Matt Wozniski wrote:
          > >
          > >> Bram Moolenaar wrote:
          > >> >
          > >> > Any comments on adding the ":unsilent" command modifier?
          > >>
          > >> Maybe we could add
          > >> a :msgonly modifier that behaves like :silent but does add to the
          > >> message history?
          > >
          > > The message history is to store displayed messages. Â If a message isn't
          > > displayed then it should not be in the history.
          > >
          > > If you want to log some things to see what your plugin is doing you can
          > > use a global List and append to that.
          >
          > It just seems that it would be nicer if each plugin didn't need to
          > roll its own ad-hoc logging solution. Â When something goes wrong, a
          > lot of experienced vim users will instinctively check :messages to see
          > if an error managed to slip by them unnoticed, so the message history
          > seems like an intuitive place to do logging. Â It not only would save
          > plugin authors the need to roll their own logging solution, but would
          > save plugin users from having to learn which plugins do provide their
          > own logging, and learning how to view the log for each.
          >
          > It's not something I feel terribly strongly about one way or the
          > other, but I definitely think that extending the message history from
          > it's current definition to "A list of messages that can give you
          > insight about what happened recently" would be more useful.

          Look at the stuff that Charles Campbell made.

          I don't think that "uniform logging" will help, really. I mean, what's
          simpler than:

          let g:mylog = []

          ...

          call add(g:mylog, "I did something!")

          ...

          echo g:mylog

          --
          hundred-and-one symptoms of being an internet addict:
          53. To find out what time it is, you send yourself an e-mail and check the
          "Date:" field.

          /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@... -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\
          /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
          \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org ///
          \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org ///

          --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
          You received this message from the "vim_dev" maillist.
          For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php
          -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.